>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO NEXT UP.

I'M WENDY WIESE WITH MY COLLEAGUE RAY HARTMANN, AND WE HAVE A TERRIFIC CONVERSATION FOR YOU TONIGHT.

JOINING US THE JEFFREY NUSSBAUM.

HE HAS BEEN A PROFESSIONAL SPEECHWRITER FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, BEGINNING HIS CAREER WRITING EXPERIENCE FOR VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE AND MOST RECENTLY, HE WAS SENIOR SPEECHWRITER FOR PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

HE NOW HAS A BRAND NEW BOOK.

IT'S CALLED "UNDELIVERED: THE NEVER HEARD EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD HAVE REWRITTEN HISTORY."

JEFF, WELCOME TO ST. LOUIS.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> WELCOME TO NEXT UP.

WE'RE SO HAPPY TO HAVE YOU.

FIRST OF ALL, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR CAREER AND HOW YOU GOT TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> YES.

SO I APPLIED AFTER MY SECOND YEAR IN COLLEGE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE INTERNSHIP AND KNOWING THAT MY GRADES WOULDN'T PUT ME OVER THE TOP, I WROTE A RELATIVELY CHEEKY APPLICATION ESSAY ABOUT THE FACT THAT MY MIDDLE SISTER, WHEN SHE WAS 1 AND I WAS 5, WE WENT INTO THE JOEFL OFFICE AND SHE WET THE RUG IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

SO MY ESSAY WAS VERY FEW PEOPLE GET A CHANCE TO MAKE A MARK IN THE WHITE HOUSE, I WANT TO IMPROVE THE ONE MY SISTER MADE.

THEY THOUGHT, LET'S PUT THE GUY IN SPEECH WRITING.

THAT'S WHERE I ENDED UP.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK, YOU SAID IT WAS AN OBSESSION.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THESE UNFINISHED OR UNDELIVERED SPEECHES BECAME SUCH AN OBSESSION WITH YOU?

>> THIS BEGAN FOR ME ELECTION NIGHT 2000.

I WAS THE KID SPEECH WRITER FOR AL GORE AND THAT NIGHT HE HAD THREE EXPERIENCE PREPARED.

A VICTORY, A CONCESSION, AND STRANGELY ENOUGH, THEY THOUGHT HE MIGHT WIN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, BUT LOSE THE POPULAR VOTE.

AS IT WENT, THE OPPOSITE HAPPENED AND NO SPEECHES WERE GIVEN THAT NIGHT AND I LOST THEM.

THE IRONY OF THIS BOOK ABOUT UNDELIVERED SPEECHES WERE THE ONES I DON'T HAVE THAT SET THE WHOLE THING IN MOTION.

BUT IT GOT ME THINKING WHERE WERE THERE PLACES IN HISTORY WHERE THE OUTCOME WAS SO IN DOUBT, THAT A SPEECH FOR THE ALTERNATE RESULT WAS PREPARED.

>> YOU GOT A ST. LOUIS CONNECTION, RIGHT?

>> I DO, I DO.

MY FOLKS MOVED HERE WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE RIGHT WHEN MY YOUNGER SISTER WAS STARTING COLLEGE.

AND I HAVE A BABY SISTER WHO GREW UP HERE.

SO ST. LOUIS IS AS MUCH HOME AS ANYWHERE WE'VE EVER KNOWN AND WE LOVED LIVING HERE.

>> SO WE WILL CLAIM YOU IN THAT SENSE.

>> IF ALL GOES WELL, I'M HOUSE BILL TO BE CLAIMED.

IF ALL -- HAPPY TO BE CLAIMED.

IF ALL GOES WELL, YOU'RE HAPPY TO DISOWN ME IF IT DOESN'T.

>> WE'LL HAVE ON TWO EXPERIENCE, RIGHT?

>> OKAY.

>> IS THERE A FAVORITE IN HERE FOR YOU?

>> IT'S THE ONE MOST OBSCURE AND IT'S GOVERNOR OUT DLLEY D AT THE TURN OF 1800 WAS DRUMMED OUT OF OFFICE FOR PARDONING THE HAYMARKET PRISONERS AND HE HAD A BEAUTIFUL SPEECH THAT HE NEVER GOT TO READ.

IT'S ABOUT PARTIES NEED TO PUT PARTISANSHIP ASIDE AND GOVERN.

IT'S ABOUT ELECTED OFFICIALS, THAT THERE'S NO GREATER SIN TO BE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AND NOT STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR HUMANITY.

SO IT JUST RESONATES SO POWERFULLY TODAY AND THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHAPTERS.

>> HOW MUCH PRESSURE IS ON THE SPEECHWRITER?

IT SEEMS THAT WHEN WE HAD THREE NETWORKS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A COUPLE OF RADIO NETWORKS, MAYBE THE PRESSURE WASN'T AS INTENSE IN TERMS OF ALL OF THE DIFFERENT REALTIME NEWS OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

HOW HAS THAT PRESSURE CHANGED?

>> I LOVE THAT QUESTION BECAUSE THERE WAS A TIME WHEN YOUR AUDIENCE WAS DELIVERED FOR YOU AND YOUR AUDIENCE WAS EVERYONE.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND NOW, YOU KNOW, COMEDIANS TALK ABOUT HAVING TO COMPETE WITH EVERY JOKE ON TWITTER.

I THINK SPEECH WRITERS AND POLITICIANS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS AND BUSINESS LEADERS HAVE TO COMPETE WITH A MILLION IT DID DISTRACTIONS.

AND SO THE -- MILLION DIFFERENT DISTRACTIONS.

SO THE WRITING NOW, YES YOU WANT TO WRITE A FULL ARGUMENT, A FULL PERSUASIVE SPEECH, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND, WHAT'S THAT MOMENT THAT'S GOING TO BREAK THROUGH, THAT'S GOING TO BECOME VIRAL.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS AFFECTED OR INFECTED THE PROFESSION, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

>> JEFF, I'VE HAD MY OWN OPPORTUNITY TO TEST SPEECH WRITING AND ONE OF THE -- YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY -- MY SPEECHES RESULTED IN A CERTAIN GOVERNOR NO LONGER BEING GOVERNOR, AND THEY WERE BURNED, ACTUALLY, SO THEY WEREN'T -- THEY WERE NOT ACTUALLY LOST.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I ALWAYS FOUND INTERESTING IS WHILE YOU'RE WRITING AND YOU'RE COMPOSING, YOU'RE SPEAKING IN SOMEONE ELSE'S VOICE.

WAS THAT DIFFERENT FOR YOU WITH, SAY, AN AL GORE OR A -- WELL, THE CURRENT PRESIDENT?

>> YEAH, FIRST OF ALL, YOU BEAT ME TO IT.

I WAS GOING TO HOLD YOU UP AS A PARAGON OF SPEECH WRITING AND A MODEL FOR THE CAREER.

>> HOW CAN SOMEONE PUT THEIR FOOT IN THEIR MOUTH?

>> I USED TO JOKE THAT YOU CAN MEASURE MY INFLUENCE NOT BY HOW MUCH PROGRESS I COULD MAKE, BUT HOW MUCH DAMAGE I COULD DO.

SO I GET THE IMPULSE TO LIMIT THE DAMAGE YOU DO.

BUT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, YES, YOU ARE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHARACTER ACTOR.

YOU HEAR THE SPEAKER'S VOICE IN YOUR HEAD AS YOU WRITE, AND I OFTEN SAY THAT IT'S EASY TO SOUND LIKE SOMEONE.

THERE'S ENOUGH YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND INTERVIEWS THAT YOU CAN READ TO KIND OF MIMIC SOMEONE, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY WORK FOR THEM UNTIL IT THINKS LIKE THEM.

SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO THEY MAKE AN ARGUMENT, HOW DO THEY SEE THE WORLD?

BECAUSE IF IT THINKS LIKE THEM, IT'S MORE LIKELY TO SOUND LIKE THEM.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SURPRISED ME THE MOST WAS HOW MANY HANDS TOUCH THESE SPEECHES.

COULD YOU SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS AND HOW MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE WERE IN THE ROOM, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO SIGN OFF, AND THESE ARE -- AS YOU SAID, THESE ARE PRESSURIZED CIRCUMSTANCES WITH A TIME CRUNCH LIKE NO OTHER.

>> YEAH, THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHAPTERS.

THIS IS JOHN F. KENNEDY DURING THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS.

THE MILITARY ADVISORS WANT HIM TO ANNOUNCE AIR STRIKES ON CUBA AS SOON AS WE SEE THE MISSILE SITES.

THEY WANT 800 AIR STRIKES RIGHT AWAY.

KENNEDY MAKES A PLAY FOR TIME AND BASICALLY HAS HIS ADVISORS SPLIT IN TWO GROUPS, THOSE IN FAVOR OF AIR STRIKES AND THOSE IN FAVOR OF A BLOCKADE.

THIS IS THE FIRST USE OF HAWKS AND DOVES IN HISTORY.

HE WANTS, AT RFK'S URGING, HIS BROTHER'S URGING, WHICHEVER COURSE OF ACTION WE CHOOSE, EACH GROUP IS GOING TO PRETTY PREFERRED COURSE OF ACTION BUT THEY NEED TO PREFACE IT WITH A SPEECH BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T EXPLAIN IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, MAYBE THIS ISN'T THE RIGHT COURSE OF ACTION.

THERE ARE DOZENS OF PEOPLE, STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OFFICIALS, LEGAL ADVISORS, ALL LOOKING AT THIS TO BASICALLY SAY, IS THIS THE ACCEPTABLE ARGUMENT?

IS THIS THE COURSE WE WANT TO CHOOSE?

AND IN THAT SPEECH, ONE OF MY FAVORITE HARROWING MOMENTS IS THERE'S A PARENTHETICAL IN THE SPEECH THAT SAYS HOLD FOR FIRST REPORTS OF ACTION.

IN OTHER WORDS, FOR JOURNALISTS, IT'S LIKE A T.K.

THEY'RE GOING TO FILL IN WHAT HAPPENED, BUT ONLY IN RETROSPECT DO WE REALIZE THAT THE FIRST REPORTS OF ACTION COULD HAVE BEEN A DEVASTATING NUCLEAR COUNTER STRIKE BECAUSE THESE MISSILES WERE ALREADY ACTIVE, WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT.

>> HILLARY CLINTON MADE THE BOOK.

>> SHE DID.

>> TALK ABOUT THAT.

OF COURSE, I OF COURSE NATURALLY LOOKED FOR A TRUMP, BUT HE WASN'T IN THE BOOK.

I WANT TO KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, ABOUT HILLARY AND MAYBE THERE'S GOING TO BE A SEQUEL THAT -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

MY HOPE THAT IS THE PUBLICATION OF THIS BOOK WILL BRING SOME EXPERIENCE I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

IN FACT, IT ALREADY HAS.

A COUPLE PEOPLE HAVE EMAILED ME ABOUT INTERESTING STUFF, BUT TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE HILLARY SPEECH, IT IS REALLY INTERESTING.

SO SHE GAVE ME HER VICTORY SPEECH, HER 2016 VICTORY SPEECH, AND IN THAT SPEECH YOU SEE ALL THE FISSURES THAT RAN THROUGH HER CAMPAIGN INTO VICTORY.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SAY TO THE BERNIE VOTERS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SAY ON THE TRUMP VOTERS I CALLED DEPLORABLE.

THE SPEECH WAS MISSING THAT MOMENT THAT SHE WAS LOOKING FOR.

THEN SHE GOT AN EMAIL, UNSOLT HIS SITED FROM A PULL -- UNSOLICITED FROM A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING POET, WHICH IS WHERE SHE WANTED TO GO.

HER MOTHER HAD A DIFFICULT CHILDHOOD AND TO CONCLUDE THE SPEECH, SHE HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL IMAGINED CONVERSATION WHERE AN ADULT HILLARY SEES HER MOTHER AS AN 8-YEAR-OLD WHO IS BEING SENT CROSS COUNTRY ON A TRAIN TO BASICALLY LIVE IN SERVITUDE AND SHE SITS DOWN NEXT TO HER MOTHER AS AN 8-YEAR-OLD AND SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A TOUGH LIFE, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DAUGHTER AND THAT DAUGHTER IS GOING TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BEAUTIFUL, POWERFUL MOMENT.

>> WOW, WOW.

>> AS SOMEONE WHO IS FRESH OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND THOSE RANKS, HOW AWARE ARE YOU WHILE YOU'RE WRITING A SPEECH FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON ON EARTH, IN TERMS OF POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND THE TONE OF POLITICAL DISCOURSE TODAY?

HOW IMPORTANT WAS THAT TO YOUR FORMER BOSS AND TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL SPEECHWRITER?

>> YEAH.

THERE IS STILL A FORMALITY TO THE PRESIDENCY THAT IS DIFFERENT.

IT'S JUST DIFFERENT.

THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THE PRESIDENT CAN'T SAY.

THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THE PRESIDENT CAN'T WEAR.

THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THE PRESIDENT CAN'T DO.

AND SO I WRITE A LOT OF JOKES.

I LOVE HUMOR.

IT'S ONE OF MY SIDELINES.

BUT FOR THE PRESIDENT, THERE ARE VERY FEW JOKES THAT ACTUALLY WORK BECAUSE, FOR TWO REASONS, RIGHT?

HUMOR SHOULD BE ABOUT PUNCHING UP AND WHEN YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT, YOU'RE THE TOP, SO THERE'S NOWHERE UP TO PUNCH.

THE OTHER THING IS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO DIMINISH THE OFFICE.

I MEAN, PRESIDENTS REAGAN AND OTHERS BASICALLY SAID THAT I COULDN'T TAKE OFF MY SUIT COAT IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

AND THIS PRESIDENT DOESN'T DO THAT EITHER.

AND SO YOU DO WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT -- TWO THINGS.

ONE IS THAT THE PRESIDENCY IS DIFFERENT AND THE PRESIDENCY SHOULD HAVE DIGNITY TO IT THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN OTHER OFFICES.

THE OTHER THING YOU RECOGNIZE IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST AMERICA, BUT THE WORLD THAT PARSES THESE WORDS.

SO THE NUMBER OF DEBATES AND CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE ABOUT A PHRASE, ABOUT CAN WE SAY THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN OUR FRIEND FOREVER, WHICH IS THE TYPE OF THING ANYONE WOULD JUST STATUS OFF AS A PLATITUDE, BUT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SOMETIMES SAID NO, THAT'S NOT -- WE CAN'T SAY THAT.

THAT SENDS A MESSAGE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEND.

>> SO YOU -- IT IS A LINE-BY-LINE PARSING, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

>> WITH A ROOMFUL -- A THEATER FULL OF OBSERVERS.

>> WELL, IN THIS CASE, IT'S PRIMARILY INITIALLY AN EMAIL DISTRIBUTION.

>> SURE.

>> WHERE EVERY OFFICE GET AND CHANCE TO LOOK.

DOMESTIC POLICY, FOREIGN POLICY, RESEARCH, LAWYERS, AND THEY ALL GET A CHANCE TO LOOK AND THEY ALL FLAG THEIR CONCERNS.

BUT ULTIMATELY, THEY'RE STILL ADVISORS, THEY'RE STILL MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS AND WHAT GETS SAID OR DOESN'T GET SAID COMES DOWN TO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO SAY OR THINKS HE SHOULD SAY.

HE MAY NOT OVERRIDE AUTHORITY OVER THE SENATE, BUT HE CERTAINLY HAS OVERRIGHT AUTHORITY OVER -- OVERRIDE AUTHORITY OVER EVERYTHING THAT GOES IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> WORRYING ABOUT DIMINISHING THE OFFICE, AFTER THE LAST GUY, DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE HIGH ON YOUR LIST.

I STARTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT TRUFR AND I CAN'T LET GO OF IT.

FIRST OF ALL, IN YOUR LINE OF WORK, DO YOU KNOW SOME TRUMP SPEECH WRITERS.

>> I DO.

>> I'M GUESSING THAT.

CAN YOU SHARE THE INSIGHT AND SAY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN -- AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET DOWN TO PARTISAN THINGS.

>> RIGHT, I GET YOU.

>> BUT WHAT IS THE -- WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM, SAY, WRITING FOR BIDEN?

>> YEAH, SO FIRST OF ALL, I THOUGHT YOU WERE ABOUT TO SAY JUST BETWEEN US OFF THE RECORD, AND I WAS GOING TO POINT TO THE CAMERAS ROLLING RIGHT NOW.

>> WE ARE OFF THE RECORD.

>> I WAS BORN DURING THE DAY, BUT IT WASN'T YESTERDAY.

ONE OF THE THINGS IS I INHERITED THE TRUMP SPEECH WRITERS' OFFICES AND THEY CLEAN OUT EVERYTHING AND SEND IT ALL ON THE ARCHIVES.

WEDGED UNDER THE DESK ACCIDENTALLY WERE A BUNCH OF THEIR DRAFT SPEECHES, SO I HAD THESE DRAFT EXPERIENCE, WHICH I THEN DID THE RIGHT -- DRAFT SPEECHES, WHICH I DID THE RIGHT THING AND GAVE THEM TO THE ARCHIVES, BUT NOT BEFORE READING THEM.

ONE OF THE THINGS I REALIZED VERY QUICKLY IS THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO APPROACH SPEECH WRITING.

ONE IS YOU ARE FOLLOWING YOUR BOSS'S LEAD.

THE BOSS TELLS YOU WHAT THEY WANT AND YOU'RE SORT OF CHASING THEM.

THE OTHER IS, YOU'RE LEADING THEM.

YOU'RE PUTTING IDEAS ON PAPER, SEEING IF THEY WILL LIKE IT OR WARM TO IT.

CLEARLY THE TRUMP SPEECH WRITERS WERE CHASING THEIR BOSS.

THEY WERE FOLLOWING THEIR BOSS'S LEAD BECAUSE THESE EXPERIENCE WERE -- SOUNDED LIKE A SLIGHTLY ONE CLICK OFF IMITATION OF WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SAYING ON THE STUMP.

AND SO I THINK THE GREATEST DISCONNECT WHEN YOU WATCH PRESIDENT TRUMP, LEAVING POLITICS OUT OF IT, JUST AS AN OBSERVER OF SPEECH WRITERS, IS YOU COULD SEE WHEN HE WAS READING WHAT WAS ON THE TELEPROMPTER BECAUSE HE ACTED AS IF HE WAS BORED WITH WHAT HE WAS READING, AND THEN HE WOULD LEAVE SCRIPT AND START TO ENJOY HIS OWN PERFORMANCE AGAIN.

SO YOU COULD SEE IT BACK AND FORTH AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS.

>> INTERESTING.

>> BUT HE HAD WRITERS.

I JUST THINK THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE THEIR BOSS OUT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CO-CRAFT WITH THEIR BOSS.

>> BUT THEY ACTUALLY LEFT -- >> YEAH, THEY DID.

>> WERE THEY IN CRAYON?

>> COME ON.

>> WOW.

WERE THERE ANY PRESIDENTS THAT SURPRISED YOU IN TERMS OF DELIVERING SPEECHES?

I'M SURE THAT YOU'VE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'VE LISTENED TO QUITE A FEW.

YOU'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW.

YOU'VE READ QUITE A FEW.

ANY THAT REALLY JUMPED OUT AND SURPRISED YOU?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS -- ONE OF THE JOYS IN WRITING THIS BOOK WAS A CHANCE TO LEARN ABOUT THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT, TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THINGS THAT WERE SORT OF VAGUELY REMEMBERED.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY JUMPED OUT TO ME IS THAT THE BEST, OVER TIME -- YOU KNOW, LANGUAGE CHANGES OVER TIME, HOW WE SPEAK CHANGES OVER TIME.

IT'S BECOME LESS FORMAL, BUT YOU READ AN FDR FIRESIDE CHAT AND IT FEELS LIKE RIGHT NOW AT THIS MOMENT.

THAT HIS ABILITY TO GET INTO YOUR LIVING ROOM AND KIND OF PIERCE THE TRUTH OF YOUR EXISTENCE FEELS AS RELEVANT TODAY AS IT DID THEN.

KENNEDY, SIMILARLY, FEELS AS CHARMING TODAY AS IT DID THEN.

SO REALIZING THAT SOME OF THESE PRESIDENTS IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN ORATORS, THEY'VE GIVEN ORATIONS, SOME HAVE GIVEN CONVERSATIONS, THEY BROUGHT DIFFERENT STYLES, BUT THE ONES WHO DID IT THE BEST, IT STILL HOLDS UP.

IT'S SO IMMEDIATE AND THAT'S SURPRISING.

I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I WAS READING HISTORY, I THOUGHT I WAS READING COMMENTARY ON THE PRESENT.

>> TELL US ABOUT SEPTEMBER 11th, CONDOLEEZZA RISE, TALK ABOUT THAT ONE WHERE I ASSUME SHE WAS PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT JUST IN GENERAL ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY AND THEY WERE -- >> EXACTLY.

>> WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11th.

>> ON THE AFTERNOON OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001, CONDOLEEZZA RICE WAS ABOUT TO GIVE A FOREIGN POLICY SPEECH AT JOHNS HOPKINS.

THE ATTACKS HAPPEN.

THE SPEECH, OF COURSE, GETS CALLED OFF.

SHE WAS PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT MISSILE DEFENSE AND THE SPEECH IS STILL CLASSIFIED, SOOVER THE SPEECH IN -- SO I DON'T HAVE THE SPEECH IN HERE, BUT THROUGH A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST, I WAS ABLE TO GET ALL THE STERLS SHE HAD PREPARING FOR THE SPEECH.

PART OF WHY I THINK IT'S REMAINS CLASSIFIED, SHE WAS DERYE RICE SIEVE TOWARD TERRORISM.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SECURITY IS MORE METAL DETECTORS AT THE AIRPORTS.

THAT WOULD NOT HAVE GONE OVER WELL ON SEPTEMBER 11th.

AND IT REALLY WAS GOING TO BE A MISSILE DEFENSE SPEECH AND IT'S CLEAR FROM THE MATERIAL SHE HAD, THEY WERE OBSESSED WITH REFUTING THE ARGUMENTS OF A CERTAIN UNITED STATES SENATOR WHO WAS VERY ANTI-MISSILE DEFENSE AND THAT WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE, JOE BIDEN.

IT WAS HILARIOUS FOR ME TO SEE TRANSCRIPTS OF JOE BIDEN ON MEET THE PRESS, JOE BIDEN ON SENATE HEARINGS AND THEY PRACTICED A TYPE OF SPEECH WRITING THAT'S CALLED REPUTATION.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU LAY OUT EACH ARGUMENT TO KNOCK IT DOWN AND HER SPEECH WAS BASICALLY LAYING OUT JOE BIDEN'S ARGUMENTS AND KNOCKING THEM DOWN.

>> WOW.

>> AND THEN, OF COURSE, SEPTEMBER 11th HAPPENS.

IT'S NOT TILL MANY MONTHS LATER THAT THE SPEECH GETS RESCHEDULED.

NOT A WORD OF THE ORIGINAL DRAFT REMAINS EXCEPT THIS LINE THAT SAYS THE WORLD CAN CHANGE IN AN INSTANT, AND INDEED N THAT MOMENT, THE WORLD REALLY DID.

>> SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS THE STORY OF JOHN LEWIS AND THE TALE OF TWO EXPERIENCE AND A TALE OF TWO TOMES.

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

JOHN LEWIS OVER TIME, LIKE I SAID, WE SAND THE ROUGH EDGES OFF.

HE BECOMES ALMOST A FUZZY CIVIL RIGHTS CHARACTER IN HISTORY, BUT AT THE TIME OF A MARCH ON WASHINGTON, AVENUES -- HE WAS A YOUNG, FIERY, PASSIONATE NEED OF THE STUDENT NONE VIOLENT COORDINATING COMMITTEE.

HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED ALMOST 20 TIMES AT THAT POINT IN HIS LIFE.

HE HAD BEEN ON THE FREEDOM RIDES.

HIS BUS HAD FIRE BOMBED.

HE TALK ABOUT THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND WAS VERY CLEAR, I WANT THIS TO BE A MARCH ON WASHINGTON, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE A MARCH IN WASHINGTON.

HE SAID LATER IF I WAS GOING TO TALK, HE WAS INVITED AND HE THOUGHT HE WOULDN'T DO IT, BUT IF I WAS GOING TO TALK, HE WAS GOING TO PUT SOME STING INTO IT.

HIS FIRST DRAFT HAD SOME SERIOUS STING.

HE SAID WE'RE GOING TO MARCH THROUGH GEORGIA THE WAY SHERMAN DID AND BURN SEGREGATION TO THE GROUND NONVIOLENTLY.

PRESIDENT KENNEDY, WE CANNOT SUPPORT YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS BILL.

IT'S TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

PATIENCE, HE WAS ABOUT TO SAY, WAS A DIRTY AND OFFENSIVE WORD, WHICH WAS OFFENSIVE TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

EVERYONE BEGGED HIM TO TONE IT DOWN IN SERVICE OF THE LAR GERGEG GOAL.

MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID TO HIM, JOHN, THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU AND HE SHOT BACK AT KING, YEAH, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE US, THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE MOVEMENT.

FINALLY A. PHILIP RANDOLPH, THE GRANDFATHER, THE ORGANIZER OF THE WHOLE THING, CAN TEAR IN HIS EYES, BEGGED JOHN, PLEASE, WE'VE COME THIS FAR TOGETHER, LET US STAY TOGETHER AND LEWIS FINALLY RELENTED.

I HAVE A PICTURE OF THIS IN THE BOOK THAT I FOUND IN THE ARCHIVES OF LEWIS RETREATING UNDER THE ARM OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN AT THE BACK OF THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL REWRITING HIS SPEECH TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE TO RANDOLPH AND I SAY THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT MARCH IF PEOPLE HAD -- IF THE MOST MEMORABLE SPEECH HASN'T BEEN THE DREAM, BUT HAD BEEN THE NIGHTMARE.

>> THE NIGHTMARE.

>> I'M LONG ENOUGH IN THE TOOTH TO REMEMBER RICHARD NIXON'S RESIGNATION SPEECH.

WHAT MIGHT THAT SPEECH SOUND LIKE IF HE HAD, SAY, REFUSED TO RESIGN?

>> INDEED, HE HAD A DRAFT IN WHICH HE REFUSED TO RESIGN.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE FORGET, I TALKED ABOUT WE REMEMBER JOHN LEWIS DIFFERENTLY.

WE REMEMBER RICHARD NIXON DIFFERENTLY.

WE FORGET THAT HE WAS AN INCREDIBLY PERSUASIVE SPEAKER AND HAD THE POTENTIAL TO BE TREMENDOUSLY CHARMING AND INDEED ONCE IN HIS CAREER HAD SAVED HIS POLITICAL BACKSIDE BY GIVING A SPEECH THAT'S NOW KNOWN AS THE CHECKERS SPEECH SPP IT'S A WONDERFUL SPEECH.

I SORT OF THOUGHT MAYBE AT THIS TOUGHEST MOMENT IN MY PRESIDENCY, I CAN DO SOMETHING SIMILAR.

I CAN LAY MYSELF BARE THE WAY THE CHECKERS LAID HIM BARE FINANCIALLY.

HE SAID I'VE LISTENED TO ALL THE TAPES, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR ME, FOLKS, BUT HERE'S WHY I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT I STA STAY IN OFFICE AND SEE THIS THROUGH THE TO THE END.

HE MARTIALED THE ARGUMENTS HE HAD.

THEY WERE THE BEST ARGUMENTS HE HAD.

THEY WEREN'T GREAT ARGUMENTS, BUT HE BASICALLY SAID WE HAD A PRESIDENT ASSASSINATED.

WE HAD LBJ BASICALLY DRUMMED OUT OF OFFICE.

JUST FOR CONTINUITY'S SAKE, SHOULDN'T I STAY AROUND?

AND YEARS LATER AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th, YOU HEARD RUDDY GIULIANI SAYING THE SAME THING ABOUT NEW YORK.

JUST FOR CONTINUITY'S SAKE, SHOULDN'T I STICK AROUND?

HE PUT TOGETHER THE BEST ARGUMENTS HE COULD AND ULTIMATELY HE DETERMINE HIS POSITION WAS UNSUSTAINABLE.

BUT THAT SPEECH ALSO FEELS VERY RELEVANT BECAUSE YOU START TO HEAR THE BEGINNINGS OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT LEADERS MAKE WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT OUTCOMES EITHER BY LAW OR THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

>> GREAT.

WHY NOT HAVE NIXON TO KICK AROUND A LITTLE LONGER?

>> YEAH, JUST A LITTLE LONGER.

>> FOR CONTINUITY.

>> THAT'S GREAT.

>> WHEN YOU ALSO LOOK AT EXPERIENCE THAT WERE NOT DELIVERED BECAUSE OF DEATHS.

>> YEAH.

>> PIOUS XI, WAS IT MUSSEL LINENY AND AND I STEIN?

>> PIOUS XI, HISTORY CAN GO ONE DIRECT OR THE OTHER.

IN THE LAST CHAPTER, I TAKE EXPERIENCE WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THE END WAS NEAR, SO I HAVE POPE PIOUS XI, FDR AND JOHN F. KENNEDY.

MUSSOLINI WAS GETTING READY TO -- THE CHURCH HAD BASICALLY GOTTEN IN BED -- MAYBE I SHOULD USE A DIFFERENT TERM.

THEY HAD BASICALLY REACHED AN AGREEMENT WITH THE FASCIST GOVERNMENT AND IT HAD GONE ON FOR TEN YEARS AND POPE PIOUS WAS DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HE SAW HAPPENING AND BASICALLY WAS PREPARED TO SAY, THIS IS A MISTAKE.

WE GOT TO GET OUT OF THIS.

THIS TYPE OF LEADERSHIP, THE FASCIST LEADERSHIP IS WRONG.

IT IS NOT TO BE FOLLOWED, ONSO WHEN PIOUS DIED, EVERYBODY ABOUT THAT SPEECH WAS DESTROYED AND LIKE ONE COPY WAS SQUIRRELED A WAWAY , AND SO THAT'S VERY POWERFUL.

THEN WE HAVE FDR, WE WERE STILL IF WORLD WAR II, BUT HIS LAST SPEECH WAS TO BE A BIG SPEECH WHERE HE'S LOOKING PAST THE END OF WORLD WAR II AND HE HAD THE LINE, HOW DO WE ASSURE NOT JUST AN END TO WAR, TO THIS WAR, BUT AN END TO THE BEGINNINGS OF ALL WARS.

AND EINSTEIN, TOO, ISRAEL INDEPENDENCE DAY AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT PEACE AND HOW TO ACHIEVE IT.

SO THE THEME COINCIDENTALLY THAT RUNS THROUGH ALL THESE LAST WORDS IS HOW DO WE LIVE TOGETHER AS PEOPLE?

HOW DO WE LIVE TOGETHER AS HUMANITY?

THE LAST WARNING CAME FROM KENNEDY.

IT WAS A FOREIGN POLICY SPEECH AND TO THE EXTENT PEOPLE REMEMBER IT, THEY REMEMBER THE TERM, WE'RE THE WATCHMEN ON THE WALLS OF WORLD FREEDOM, BUT WHEN YOU READ THE SPEECH CLOSELY, HE ALSO MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE WATCHMAN NEEDS TO LOOK INSIDE THE WALLS.

THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT UNDERNINE A DEMOCRACY FROM WITHIN AND THIS ALSO FEELS VERY RELEVANT TO THIS MOMENT, IS MISINFORMATION.

SO IT IS IN INFORMATION WAS VERY MUCH ON MISS MIND AT THE TIME OF HIS DEATH.

>> WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME LEFT, BUT COULD YOU PLEASE SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS THE ANECDOTE, THE STORY OF BARRY JENKINS AND MOONLIGHT BECAUSE THAT IS BEAUTIFUL.

>> YES.

THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ACADEMY AWARDS, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE SLAP, WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY CALLED LA-LA LAND FOR BEST PICTURE WHEN MOONLIGHT HAD BEEN THE WINNER AND BARRY JENKINS WAS DENIED THE CHANCE TO GIVE HIS BEST PICTURE SPEECH.

HE WAS -- I INCLUDE THIS CHAPTER BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT THE POWER OF A STORY.

HE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WHEN HE WAS FILMING MOONLIGHT IN LIBERTY CITY, MIAMI, WHERE HE GREW UP, THEY HAD TO BRING IN LIGHTS TO FILM AT NIGHT.

IN A LOT OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THEY WEREN'T LIGHTS, BUT BRINGING THE LIGHTS BROUGHT OUT THE CHILDREN AND AT ONE POINT, HE'S FILMING A SCENE, DIRECTING HIS ACTORS, AND THERE'S A YOUNG BLACK CHAIR SITTING IN HIS CHAIR IN VIDEO VILLAGE WITH HIS HEAD SET ON.

JENKINS SAID THAT'S THE MOMENT IN WHICH IT STRUCK ME THAT THIS CHILD WAS SEEING A FUTURE FOR THEMSELVES THAT I DIDN'T ALLOW MYSELF TO SEE.

AND I LOVE THE CHAPTER AND I PUT IT NEAR THE END BECAUSE IT JUST POINTS TO THE POWER OF WHEN WE SEE OURSELVES, WHEN WE SEE OUR STORIES TOLD AND WHEN WE SEE OURSELVES IN THE STORIES OF OTHERS AND WHY STORY IS ON POWERFUL.

THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT LESSONS IN SPEECH WRITING.

>> IN ADDITION TO MY IDEA OF A SEQUEL, WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU?

>> SO I'M GIVING MYSELF A LITTLE TIME OFF.

I'M TAKING THE SUMMER OFF.

THERE MAY BE A SEQUEL COMING.

THERE ARE SOME EXPERIENCE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK AS THIS BOOK IS OUT THERE.

AND THEN WE'LL SEE.

>> ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC AS A FORMER INSIDER, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE TODAY?

CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC?

POLITICALLY?

>> I AM TROUBLED POLITICALLY.

EVEN WHEN I WORKED IN THE SENATE, IT WAS EASIER TO FIND AGREEMENT.

I SO TREMENDOUSLY ADMIRE PRESIDENT BIDEN'S WILLINGNESS, EVEN IF IT MEANS BANGING HIS HEAD AGAINST A WALL, TO TRY TO GET TO CONSENSUS.

HE'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT FINDING COMMON GROUND.

IT JUST FEELS LIKE COMMON GROUND IS HARDER TO FIND AND A LOT LESS FERTILE THAN IT HAD ONCE BEEN, BUT I DO TAKE OPTIMISM IN THE FACT THAT I WORK WITH AMAZING PEOPLE, INCREDIBLE COLLEAGUES WHO ARE THERE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, THERE TO HELP PEOPLE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, SO IF WE HAVE MORE OF THOSE VOICES, THAT FUELS A LITTLE BIT OF OPTIMISM FOR ME.

>> JEFFREY NUSSBAUM, IT HAS BEEN AN ABSOLUTE DELIGHT.

THE NAME OF THE BOOK, THE TITLE, "UNDELIVERED: THE NEVER HEARD EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD HAVE REWRITTEN HISTORY."

THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR VIEWING TONIGHT'S DONNYBROOK AND DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

ON BEHALF OF RAY HARTMANN, OUR ENTIRE CREW HERE AT NINE PBS, HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEKEND.

GOOD NIGHT.

CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC www.captionassociates.com * * * >> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.