>> ALVIN REID, CHARLIE BRENNAN, NEXT UP LONG GONE ARE THE DAYS LEGAL BETS PLACED.

2018 SUPREME COURT STRUCK DOWN COMMERCIAL SPORTS BETTING.

THAT NUMBER MAYBE 34.

THIS WEEK THE MISSOURI HOUSE VOTING OVERWHELMINGLY TO LEGALIZE BETTING ON MAJOR SPORTING EVENT.

JOINING US FROM NEW JERSEY IS ROBERT LINEHAN.

WELCOME TO THE HE, ROBERT.

MISSOURI IS SURROUNDED BY STATES THAT HAVE LEGALIZED SPORTS WAGERING.

I HAVE DONE SO IN KANSAS.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

IT HAS PASSED THE HOUSE HERE.

THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH NOW, I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S PROBABLY THE SAME IT HAS GONE THROUGH IN OTHER STATES.

WHAT ARE YOU PREDICTING?

ARE YOU FEELING AS THOUGH WE MIGHT RUN INTO PROBLEMS THERE IN MISSOURI?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

IT'S A PLEASURE ON TO BE THE PROGRAM.

IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE A PREDICTION WHEN MY JOB IS TO REPORT ON GAMBLING AND SPORTS BETTING IN PARTICULAR.

MYSELF, I'M NOT TOO MUCH IN THE PREDICTION GAME, UNFORTUNATELY.

YOU DID MENTION IF THERE WOULD BE SMOOTH SAILING IN THE SENATE.

THE ANSWER CAN BE FOUND FROM THE 2022 LEGISLATION WHERE THE SPORTS BETTING DID PASS THE HOUSE AND MADE IT TO THE SENATE.

IT ENCOUNTERED SEVERAL HURDS FROM VARIOUS POLITICIANS AND LITTLE SOMETHING CALLED VIDEO LOTTERY TERMINALS.

WHICH HAS YET TO BE SOLVED IN THE GREAT SHOW ME STATE.

THERE DOES SEEM TO BE LOT OF MOMENTUM BEHIND LEGALIZATION THIS YEAR.

AS I SAID, THE CONTROVERSIAL ELEMENT IS VLT ELEMENT IS GOING TO REAR ITS UGLY HEAD.

I BELIEVE A FEW WEEKS AGO, YOU WERE DISCUSSING SOME OF THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL BILLS.

THERE'S A GENDER AFFIRMING BILL BEING DEBATED IN THE SENATE THAT HAS REALLY TAKEN UP A WHOLE LOT OF TIME.

HOPEFULLY, THERE WILL BE TIME TO GET TO SPORTS BETTING.

WE'LL SEE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IN THE 2023 SESSION.

>> I THINK THE PROPOSAL IN MISSOURI WOULD LEVY A 10% TAX ON THE BETTING.

IS THAT TYPICAL?

IS THAT HIGH OR LOW?

WHERE DOES THAT STAND?

>> IT'S LOWER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS ABOUT AT LIST CHECKED ABOUT 18% OR 19%.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME AMENDMENTS FLOATED TO RAISE THE TAX RATE ON THE BILL ALREADY.

THESE AMENDMENTS HAVE FAIL THE.

I BELIEVE ONE WAS TO RAISE THE RATES 15% AND ONE 21%.

THEY ALL FAILED IN COMMITTEE.

THEY ALL FAIL ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

I WILL SAY REPRESENTATIVE HUCKS SAID, IF THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IN THE SENATE IS THAT THE BILL SHOULD BE PASSED BUT WITH A HIGHER TAX RATE, HE WOULDN'T STAND IN THE WAY IT BEING LEGALIZED.

IF THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING IN MISSOURI AND NOT, HE'LL BE AMENDABLE TO EA THAT RAISE UP.

>> OUR NEIGHBORING STATES, WHAT ARE THE TAX RATES IN THOSE TWO STATES?

IF YOU KNOW.

>> OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

I DON'T.

TRYING TO KEEP TRACK OF OTHER STATES THAT HAVE LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING IS CRITICAL.

THEY ARE AROUND THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

THERE ARE ONLY A COUPLE OF STATES THAT HAVE INCREDIBLE HIGH HIGH TAX RATES IN THE COUNTRY.

NEW YORK AT 51 PER, NEW YORK IS THE LARGEST SPORTS BETTING MARKET IN THE COUNTRY.

MIGHT BE THE LARGEST SPORTS BETTING MARKET IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

THEY CAN AFFORD THAT 51%.

MISSOURI, IF IT DOES LEGALIZE SPORTS BETTING, IT WOULD HAVE A GREAT MARKET.

>> CASINO GAMBLING CAME TO MISSOURI, SOME ECONOMISTS SAID THAT DISPOSABLE INCOME SPENT ON GAMBLING ON OUR RIVER BOATS WOULD COME FROM INDUSTRIES LIKE BOWLING AND RESTAURANTS.

HOW ABOUT SPORTS GAMBLING.

IF SOMEONE TAKES INCOME SPENDS IT ON GAMBLING, WHERE IS THAT PERSON NOT SPENTING THAT -- SPENDING THAT MONEY?

>> YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD.

MOSTLY IT COMES OUT OF ENTERTAINMENT BUNTS.

WHAT PROPONENTS SPORTS BETTING WILL TELL YOU, OUTCOMELY, THERE ARE SEVERAL STATES THAT BORDER MISSOURI THAT HAVE SPORTS BETTING.

PEOPLE THAT WANT THE -- IT'S TAKING TAX DOLLARS OUT OF MISSOURI FROM PLACES YOU WOULDN'T THINK.

SOMEONE THAT WOULDN'TING IN A RESTAURANT IN MISSOURI, THEY'RE NOT DOING SO WHEN THEY'RE HAVING A DAY OR WEEKEND IN KANSAS.

PROPONENTS WILL SAY, LET'S LEGALIZE SPORTS BETTING.

THAT'S BASICALLY A BIG ADVANTAGE OF HAVING LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING NOW.

>> SOME OF THE HEADLINES HERE SAID THAT THIS BILL THAT WAS PASSED BY THE HOUSE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS FAVORED BY CASINOS LIKE OUR MAJOR SPORTS FRANCHISES HERE IN THE STATE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

IS IT SAYING, ALVIN CAN'T OPEN A RESTAURANT THAT HAS LIKE A -- WHY DO THEY FAVOR THE BILL AS IT IS THAT JUST PASS -- PASSED IN THE HOUSE?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

BASICALLY, THE PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISES, THE SIX PROFESSIONAL SPORT TEAMS IN MISSOURI, WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR RETAIL AND ONLINE SPORTS BETTING LICENSES.

THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A SPORT BETTING IN THEIR ARENA OR STADIUM.

THE CASINOS WILL BE ABLE TO OFFER RETAIL SPORTS BITTING.

THEY WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH ONLINE SPORTS BETTING OPERATORS.

THIS REALLY LIMITS SPORTS BETTING.

THE SECOND ISSUE, ONE THAT IS IS.

VIDEO LOTTERY TERMINALS IS GRAY MACHINES.

THEY ARE GAMBLING MACHINES THAT ARE UNREGULATED.

THEY'RE NOT TAXED.

YOU CAN FIND THEM IN MISSOURI TRUCK STOPS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, VARIOUS ENTITIES THAT HAVE LIQUOR LICENSES, REST STOPS.

THIS BILL DOES NOT INCLUDE A COMPONENT TO LEGALIZE THEM.

THAT IS A BIG REASON WHY SPORTS BETTING DID NOT GET LEGALIZED IN 2022.

THE PROFESSIONAL TEAMS THE PROFESSIONAL SPORT TEAMS IN THE CASINOS, ALL THROUGHOUT THE COMMITTEE HEARINGS, BASICALLY BEGGED MISSOURI LAWMAKERS TO BIFURCATE THE ISSUE.

THEY SAID, LET'S SPLIT THESE TWO ISSUE.

LET TAKE THEM ONE AT A TIME.

LET'S SEE IF WE CAN LEGALIZE SPORTS BETTING FIRST.

THE POLITICIANS HEARD THEM LOUD AND CLEAR.

THERE ARE TWO BILLS THAT PASS THE THE HOUSE.

THERE'S ONE ON THE SENATE FLOOR NOW.

THEY ARE STRICTLY SPORTS BETTING BILL.

>> ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL.

WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT OR NOT WANT THE VIDEO GAMING EITHER LEGAL OR KEEP IT ILLEGAL?

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

>> PROPONENTS OF VLTs WILL SAY IT'S THE SAME ARGUMENT FOR LEETIZING -- LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING.

THERE ARE NO SARTHES AND THEY ARE BILLION -- THE PROPONENT SAYING LET'S LEGALIZE THEM.

THAT'S BASICALLY THE SAME ARGUMENT FOR SPORTS BETTING.

SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, THE TWO ISSUES FOR WHATEVER REASON BECAME ONE IN THE SAME.

IN 2022, EVERY BILL THAT WAS BROUGHT FORTH IN THE SENATE OR HOUSE, TRIED TO LEGALIZE BOTH SPORTS BETTING AND VIDEO LOTTERY TERMINALS.

VIDEO LOTTERY TERMINALS ARE A FAIRLY CONTROVERSIAL ELEMENT IN THE STATE.

THERE ARE SEVERAL POLITICIANS THAT FAVOR LEGALIZING THEM.

>> ONE OF OUR GREAT BROADCASTERS IN ST. LOUIS HISTORY JACK BUCK IN 1999 WROTE AUTOBIOGRAPHY CALLED "THAT'S A WINNER" HE SAID, HE THOUGHT THAT PEOPLE ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE SHOULD NOT BE IN CASINOS BECAUSE THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS AND PEOPLE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT.

MY QUESTION WILL BE, ARE THE PEOPLE LEAST ABLE TO AFFORD BETTING THE ONES WHO ARE LIKELY TO BE SPORTS BETTING WHEN IT'S LEGALIZED IN MISSOURI?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING WAY OF APPROACHING THAT.

RIGHT NOW IF YOU WANT TO BET ON A GAME IN MISSOURI, YOU CAN BET ON A GAME IN MISSOURI.

YOU CAN GUILING AND YOU'LL FIND A NUMBER OFFSHORE BEINGS.

THEY ARE UNREGULATED.

THEY ARE HIGHLY ILLEGAL IN THE COUNTRY.

PEOPLE BET AND USE THEM ALL THE TIME.

MISSOURIANS, THE AGA REPORTS THERE'S BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BET ILLEGALLY WITH UNREGULATED OFFSHORE MARKETS.

WHILE THIS IS HAPPENING NOW, THE ARGUMENT IS, LET'S LEGALIZE THIS.

IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM, THE BILL STATES $500,000 A YEAR, EARMARKED FOR THE COME PULSATIVE GAMBLING IN THE STATE.

RIGHT NOW, THERE AREN'T SO MANY PROGRAMS IN MISSOURI FOR THIS.

THEY ARE NOT AS WELL FUNDED AS THEY WOULD BE WITH LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING.

THE STATE WANTS TO -- THEY'LL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SAFEGUARDS AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MARKET.

CONSUMER SAFEGUARDS THAT THESE OFFSHORE.

IF YOU WANT TO CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR ONE OF THESE SPORTS BOOKS THAT ARE IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS, GOOD LUCK.

YOU BRING IN DRAFT KINGS AND FANDUEL AND OTHER REGULATED BOOKS, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE GRAME MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR.

THAT'S >> WE KNOW THE PAYOFF FOR SLOT MACHINES THAT'S REGULATED.

EKNOW THE GENERALLY SPEAKING, HOW MUCH PEOPLE MAKE WHEN THEY PLAY THE STATE LOTTERY.

ANY IDEA HOW MUCH THE CONSUMER MAKES WHEN IT COMES TO SPORTS GAMBLING IN AMERICA TODAY?

>> YOU MEAN THE CONSUMER, YOU MEAN THE SPORTS BETTER?

>> THE SPORTS BETTER.

YOUR AVERAGE JOE BETTING ON A CARDINALS GAME >> YOU MENTIONED THE GREAT JOE BUCK AND AS HE SAID, THE HOUSE ALWAYS WIN.

YOU WILL NOT MAKE A LIVING SPORTS BETTING.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU WILL MAKE A LIVING DOO -- IT'S IMPORTANT TO TOP RESPONSIBLE GAMING IN TERMS OF WHAT THE AVERAGE SPORTS BETTER MAKE YEAR, I DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS.

FROM ANYONE THAT YOU'VE EVER TALKED TO ABOUT SPORTS BETH BETS.

PROFESSIONAL BETTERS, PEOPLE THAT DO MAKE A LIVING ON IT, USUALLY THEIR SUCCESS RATE IF THEY'RE AN ELITE GAME PICKER.

IT'S USUALLY ABOUT A 55% ACCURACY RATE.

THAT'S FOR THE TOPS OF THE TOP.

THEY'RE -- FOR ENTERTAINMENT, PEOPLE WILL SAY IF YOU GO TO CASINO, TREAT IT AS A NIGHT OUT.

NEVER GAMBLE OVER YOUR MEANS.

NEVER GAMBLE THE MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE.

UNDERSTAND IT'S A AMAZING AND FIN.

>> WHEN YOU'RE PROPOSING THESE THINGS IN STATES, I'M SURE YOU CAN LOOK AT OTHER STATES AND SAY, YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT TO.

THIS IS HOW MUCH THIS STATE IS BRINGING IN ON LEGALIZED GAMBLING.

SEPTEMBER 1st WHEN KANSAS WENT INTO DOING THEIR THING.

THEY HAD SIX MONTHS.

DO YOU HAVE ANY -- IT MIGHT BE HARD TO COMPARE THE TWO.

AS FAR AS KANSAS IS CONCERNED OR ONCE THIS PASSES, YOU YOU CAN ASSURED THAT THE STATE WILL BRING IN X AMOUNT TAX REVENUE.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN FISCAL ESTIMATES.

THERE HAVE BEEN -- AT MARKET MATURITY.

IT USUALLY TAKES COUPLE OF YEARS WHO ARE SPORTS BETTING TO REACH MATURITY.

AT MATURITY, THIS IS ASSUMING THERE'S A 10% RATE ON ADJUST THE GROSS REVENUE.

AT MARKET MATURITY, WHICH WILL HAPPEN IN FISCAL YEAR 2025.

MISSOURI CAN EXPECT BETWEEN $19 MILLION TO $29 MILLION A YEAR FOR EDUCATION.

ALSO 10% WILL BE EARMARKED TO CITIES THAT HAVE CASINOS.

KANSAS LOTTERY ESTIMATED THAT SPORTS BETTING WOULD GENERATE $1.8 MILLION IN TAX REVENUE IN THE FISCAL YEAR OF 2023.

FROM SEPTEMBER TO YOU JANUARY, THEY ALREADY BROUGHT IN $2.7 MILLION.

THEY ECLIPSED THEIR ESTIMATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR.

OBVIOUSLY, KANSAS, HOW THE -- THERE WAS A LOT OF BUZZ FOR THE SUPER BOWL IN KANSAS.

THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN -- THERE WAS A LOT OF BUZZ IN MISSOURI FOR THE SUPER BOWL AS WELL.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND WHAT THEY DO FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR.

SO FAR THEY SU -- WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> LOT OF THOSE DOLLARS WERE MISSOURI DOLLARS GOING OVER TO KANSAS.

KANSAS CITY LITERALLY.

YOU'RE THREE MILE AWAY FROM THE CASINO NEAR ONE.

LOT OF THAT MISSOURI MONEY GOING TO KANSAS.

>> IT WAS.

THERE'S A NUMBE -- A COMPANY THAT WILL MAP OUT SORT OF THE DIGITAL AREA OF A STATE WHERE BETS WILL BE LEGALIZED.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE MISSOURI AND YOU HAVE A DRAFT KINGS APP ON YOUR PHONE.

YOU TRIED TO PLACE A BET THIS COP COMPANY WOULD BLOCK THAT APP FROM TAKING PLACE.

IF YOU WALK A FOOT INTO KANSAS, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO PLACE A BET FROM YOUR PHONE.

THE TECHNOLOGY -- THEY LIKE TO PUS-- PUBLISH NUMBERS.

OVER THE SUPER BOWL WEEKEND, THERE ARE 250,000 ATTEMPTS MADE IN MISSOURI TO PLACE A BET THAT WERE BLOCKED BY THIS COMPANY.

IN KANSAS, THERE WERE 2.2 MILLION LEGAL BETS PLACED FOR SUPER BOWL WEEKEND.

THAT JUST SHOWS THE HUNGER AND APPETITE THAT MISSOURIANS HAVE FOR SPORTS BETTING RIGHT NOW.

PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT'S NOT LEGAL.

IT DIDN'T STOP FROM TRYING PLACE BE-- THE HUNGER IS THERE.

LIKE YOU JUST MENTIONED, THEY CAN CROSS THE BORDER AND GO TO ANY CASINOS.

THERE REPORT -- >> FOR EVERY DOLLAR, GETTING BACK TO A PREVIOUS POINT, IF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT ON SPORTS GAMBLING, AREN'T THERE BUSINESSES AND OTHER INDUSTRIES WHICH ARE SEEING THOSE MILLION DOLLARS LOST?

BOB OR SALLY AREN'T PATRONIZING THAT BUSINESS.

NOW THEY'RE SPENDING SOME OF THEIR MONEY ON SPORTS GAMBLING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BASICALLY, RETAIL SPORTS BOOKS, CASINO SPORTS BOOKS, THEY VERY MUCH DO NOT DO THE SAME NUMBERS AS ONLINE SPORTS.

IN TERM OF OTHER BUSINESSES AND ENTERTAINMENT, I DON'T HAVE ANY NUMBERS ON THAT.

IT'S ONLY COMMON SENSE T. >> KIND OF GOING BACK.

LET'S SAY THIS GUY NAMED AIL ALVIN.

HE LIVES IN KIRKWOOD AND THERE'S COUPLE OF PLACES THAT ARE NOT NOWERED.

HOW DOES IT WORK THAT ALVIN CAN HOOK UP WITH DRAFT KING OR FANDUEL AND TAKE IT OUT OF THE CASINO AND PUT IN A FLUENT COMMUNITY AND DO THE BY LIKE THAT.

DOES ANY STATE ALLOW THAT?

>> I'M NOT QUITE SURE UNDERSTANDING.

>> WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE IN A CASINO?

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE LEGISLATIVE LIKE THAT.

IF BOOKIES HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR CENTURIES.

>> I WANT TO DO IT LEGALLY.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> THE GUY WHO WROTE THE BILL ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE THE CASINOS AND THE SPORTS TEAM.

>> I GET THAT.

I'M SAYING, COULD THERE BE A PUSH IN A STATE TO SAY, -- PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO COME TO THE CASINOS.

WE THINK OUR STATE WILL MAKE MORE MONEY IF WE TOOK IT OUT OF THE CASINOS.

I THINK WE CAN MORE MONEY IF WE DID IT LITTLE MORE.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT DESPISE THE CASINOS.

>> YOU'LL BE ABLE TO BET FROM YOUR PHONE.

IN TERMS OF IF YOU WILL GO TO A SPECIFIC BUSINESS AND PLACE A BET.

THERE ARE STATES THAT OFFER SPORTS BETTING KIOSKS.

THAT'S HAS BEEN A BIG BUSINESS IN OHIO, MARYLAND.

THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF SPORTS BETTING KIOSKS.

SUPER MARKET, BARS AND RESTAURANTS HAVE KIOSKS THAT ALLOW PATRONS TO PLACE SIMPLE BETS.

LOCAL BUSINESSES DO GET A CUT OF THE REVENUE THAT IS BROUGHT IN BY THOSE KIOSKS.

THE REASON I DON'T HAVE HAVEN'T TALK TO -- >> WE GOT TO RUN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THIS WAS A WINNING BET.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

* >> "DONNYBROOK" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF 9 PBS.