>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK, NEXT UP!

.

WE HAVE A VERY SPECIAL GUEST IN THE STUDIO.

SHE IS CAROL.

SHE SPENT MORE THAN A DECADE IN CHINA, SOUTH EAST ASIA AND THE SOVIET UNION.

IT IS HER CURRENT ROLE THAT BRINGS HER TO DONNYBROOK.

THIS IS THE MARSHALL PROJECT.

NON PARTISAN, NONPROFIT SEEKING A SENSE OF URGENCY AROUND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THEY ARE ESTABLISHING A NEWSROOM HERE.

IT IS WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE.

SET THE TABLE IF YOU WILL, WITH THE MARSHALL PROJECT.

AND HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN AROUND AND WHAT BRINGS YOU TO ST. LOUIS?

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

>> WE HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE 2014.

IT WAS THE EVENTS IN FERGUSON THAT I HELPED TO BRING ATTENTION TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T REALIZE HOW SERIOUS THE PROBLEM WAS.

THAT IS WHAT DROVE OUR FOUNDER, WHO WAS A JOURNALIST HIMSELF.

WENT INTO THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY AND MADE ENOUGH TO START A NEW NONPROFIT.

HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE CRIMINAL JUSTICE DIDN'T FALL OF THE FRONT PAGES.

RAISE THE URGENCY ON HOW SERIOUS THIS PROBLEM IS IN THE UNITED STATES.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ADVOCATES WHO WANT TO REFORM THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND SERVICE PROVIDERS WHO DO GREAT WORK GETTING OUT OF PRISON, AND PEOPLE GETTING OUT OF PRISON AND TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF PRISON.

WHAT THERE WASN'T IS A NEWS ORGANIZATION THAT REPORT ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE DAY IN, DAY OUT.

THIS IS THE KIND OF JOURNALISM THAT IS SO HARD -- YOU ARE JOURNALISTS AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND AND I HOPE SOME OF YOUR VIEWERS DO TOO.

THE KIND OF JOURNALISTS WE NEED ARE THE HARDEST, MOST EXPENSIVE.

THE DIGGING AND DIGGING FOR PUBLIC RECORDS THAT SOMETIMES TAKE MONTHS TO COME BACK, IF THEY EVER DO AT ALL FROM PEOPLE IN POWER.

THE JOURNALISM THAT IS TOUGH TO PAY FOR.

THE TV MODEL IS UNDER STRESS, NEWS PAPERS HAVE LOST THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF JOBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE MARSHALL PROJECT IS ONE OF THE PLACES THAT CAN STILL DO CONSISTENT JOURNALISM WORK.

THAT JOURNALISM HAVE IMPACT.

YOU NAME AND SHAME SOMEONE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE PAPER, SOMETIMES THEY WILL REACT TO THAT.

SO, WE HAVE MANY EXAMPLES OF OUR JOURNALISMS PROMPTING A CHANGE IN POLICY OR SPURRING AND COVERING CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

WE HAVE ONE THE PRIZE.

I AM THE PRESIDENT OF THE ORGANIZATION AND I'M NOT A JOURNALIST.

THE OTHER PEOPLE DO THE HARD WORK.

WE HAVE TRYING TO FILL A VOID WHICH IS SO MANY NEWSROOMS STRUGGLE TO FILL.

HOW CAN WE GET FACTS ABOUT THESE PUBLIC ISSUE, HOW CAN WE DIG OUT THAT THE PEOPLE IN POWER DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW.

>> WHO IS THE FOUNDER?

>> IT IS NEAL BARKSI.

HE STARTED HIS OWN HEDGE FUND.

IT HAS LEFT THE BOARD BECAUSE HE STARTED SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

A WONDERFUL CHARACTER.

>> WHAT IS NEWSROOM IN ST. LOUIS LOOK LIKE?

>> WE WANT TO KEEP THE NEWSROOM AS TRIM AS POSSIBLE.

REALLY FOR BUDGET REASONS.

WE ARE A NONPROFIT.

WE HAVE TO RAISE ALL OF THE MONEY WE NEED IN ORDER TO HIRE JOURNALISTS HERE.

WE ARE THINKING MAYBE 3 JOURNALISTS, AN EDITOR, AN OUTREACH MANAGER.

WHAT WOULD THAT PERSON DO?

THE MARSHAL PROJECT HAS A BIGGER INVESTMENT IN IN INCARCERATED THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY.

NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE IN PRISON ARE READING IN PRISON, AND VERY LITTLE JOURNALISM REACHING THEM.

THERE IS NO INTERNET IN PRISON.

UNTIL WE STARTED THE PRINT EDITION.

MAYBE WE ARE 10, 20 PRISONS.

WE ARE IN 760 ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE A NEWSROOM IN ST. LOUIS AND MISSOURI, WE CAN GET A PRINT INTO EVERY JAIL IN THE STATE AND SERVES A POPULATION THAT DESERVES GOOD JOURNALISM.

EVERYONE DESERVES THAT.

IT IS RELEVANT TO THE PEOPLE IN PRISON.

>> THE ST. LOUIS, YOU HAVE BASED THE NEWSROOM THAT IS IN CLEVELAND.

>> YEAH.

>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN CLEVELAND.

WHAT DOES THE DAY-TO-DAY LOOK LIKE?

WE ARE HAVING TROUBLE IMAGINING.

>> IT IS NOT ABOUT BEING THE DISPATCH, POST DISPATCH, OR N PR, AND COVERING WHATEVER HAPPENED IN THE CITY.

IT IS ABOUT THE LONGER TERM, DEEPER LOOK, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM TAKES MONTHS.

THAT IS WHY IT IS SO EXPENSIVE.

>> WIE ARE AUST WE LOOKED AT THREE THINGS; HIGH RATES OF HOMICIDE, UNSOLVED HOMICIDE, AND NUMBER OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE TROUBLE.

WE LOOKED AT THE MEDIA KNOW LANDSCAPE.

IS THERE A LACK OF INVESTIGATIVE, AND A LACK OF COOPERATION WITH OTHERS TO WORK WITH US.

THE MARSHALL HAS -- WE HAVE BEEN ON THE WASHINGTON POST, NEW YORK TIMES AND THE MISSISSIPPI STAR, LITTLE PLACES LIKE THAT OR IN BATON ROUGE.

NOT SO TINY.

>> MAYBE YOU CAN MAKE A BIG SLASH IN A SMALL TOWN.

>> WE LOOKED AT THE DEPTH OF THE CRIMINAL CRISIS IN CLEVELAND, AND STRESS IN THE ECOSYSTEM, AND THE LACK OF MEDIA TO WORK WITH US AND THE PHILANTHROPY TO UNDERWRITE OUR NEWSROOM.

WE HAVE FOUR REPORTERS, EDITOR, AN OUTREACH MANAGER IN CLEVELAND.

EVERY ONE OF THE JOURNALISTS WE HAVE HIRED LEFT JOURNALISM BECAUSE OF FRUSTRATION.

THEY ARE WORKING WITH REFUGEE RIGHTS.

THEY WERE DOING GOOD WORK.

THEY WERE ALL SO EXCITED TO BE IN JOURNALISM AND TO DIG.

>> TO DIG.

>> RIGHT, TO DIG OUT.

>> THE FIRST THING WE DID IN CLEVELAND, IT TOOK US A YEAR TO GET 6 YEARS OF COURT DECISION-MAKING.

WHAT ARE THE JUDGES DOING?

WE VOTE FOR JUDGES.

WE GO INTO THE ELECTION BOOTH AND LOOK AT THE LIST OF JUDGES AND SAY, I DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE.

WHAT KIND OF DATA?

WHAT KIND OF SENTENCES DO THEY HAND OUT?

IS THERE A RACIAL DISPARITY?

THESE ARE NOT THINGS PEOPLE IN CLEVELAND NOW ABOUT THEIR OWN JUDGES.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MY SENTENCE STACKING UP AGAINST THE OTHERS.

IT TOOK TIME TO GET THE DATA, CLEAN THE DATA, VISUALIZE THE DATA.

THAT'S THE KIND OF THING WE WOULD LOVE TO BRING TO ST. LOUIS.

>> I WOULD THINK THAT PRISONS WITH STRICT ABOUT THEIR INMATES TO ACCESS ANYTHING.

CERTAINLY, A LOT OF TIMES YOU CAN'T SHOW UP WITH MAGAZINES AND GIVE THEM ANYTHING YOU BRING INTO THE INMATES.

WHAT -- HOW -- DO YOU NOT HAVE A LOT OF PRISONS THAT SAY NO?

IF PARTICULARLY, IF YOU ARE DOING AN INVESTIGATION OF THE PRISON SYSTEM, I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD GET IN A STATE OF MISSOURI A FAIR ABOUT OF RESISTANCE.

WHAT KIND OF BATTING AVERAGE AS FAR AS ACTUALLY GETTING PRISONS GOING ALONG WITH DISTRIBUTING?

>> OR INVESTIGATIVE WORK?

>> IF THEY ARE THINKING, GOD, YOU ARE GOING TO STIR UP THE PRISONERS.

HOW HARD IS THAT?

>> THAT'S THE GREAT QUESTION.

THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS EFFORT FOR US AND WE HAVE A VIDEO VERSION AND PRINT, BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE IN PRISON CAN'T READ.

THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS FOR US, THE GUY ON OUR STAFF WAS INCARCERATED FOR 17 YEARS.

HE CAME OUT AT THE AGE OF 44.

HE CAME TO WORK AT THE MARSHALL PROJECT.

HE SAID YOU ARE MISSING AN AUDIENCE OF 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN AMERICA.

THEY ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WRITE ABOUT BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPERIENCING IT.

>> THEY ARE LIVING IT.

>> THEY CAN'T GET ACCESS.

HE HAD A SENSE OF WHAT THE PRISON WARDON WOULD ALLOW IN.

>> WHAT WE COPUBLISHED WITH THE RIVER FRONT TIMES, DISPATCH, OR THE OTHER PARTNERS, HE CHOOSES FROM THE STORIES THAT ARE MOST LIKELY TO PASS THE HEAD OF THE PRISON AND GET TO THOSE WHO ARE INSIDE.

WE HAVE A STORY CALLED THE LIFE INSIDE.

AND IT IS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE INSIDE.

THEY CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AND RELATE TO THAT.

HE CAN LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING TO GET PASSED THE SENSORS AND STIR SOMETHING IN THE READER.

IF WE DIDN'T HAVE SOMEBODY ON THE STAFF WHO DIDN'T HAVE THAT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE THIS SUCCESS.

IT HAS BEEN HARD TO BUILD A NETWORK OF 786 PRISONS.

>> SURE.

IF YOU HAVE THE NETWORK, THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANY CONTENT THAT THE MARSHALL PROJECT PRODUCES IS GOING TO BE THERE ANY TIME?

>> WE HAD PRISONS SAYING NOPE, NO BOXES OF MAGAZINES.

WE HAVE HAD EVEN NEW YORK STATE WHERE MY COLLEAGUE WAS INCARCERATED, HE KNOWS THAT SYSTEM VERY WE WILL.

THEY SAID, NOPE, WE ARE NOT LETTING THAT IN.

IT DEFINITELY HAPPENS.

MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THOUGH, I THINK PARTICULARLY MORE ENLIGHTENED CORRECTION OFFICIALS REALIZE THIS IS EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL.

THIS IS HELPING PEOPLE MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, IMPROVE THEIR READING SKILLS, PEOPLE USE IT AS A LITERACY SKILL, AND PRISON EDUCATORS BRING THIS IN, AND PRISON LIBRARIANS, THEY PUT IT ON THE CART AND PUSH IT THROUGH THE SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WARD.

THERE'S NOTHING TO READ IN PRISON.

>> ARE YOU WORKING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT?

ARE YOU TALKING TO THE JUDGES AND, YOU KNOW, ON THE CIRCUIT?

HOW FAR OUT ARE YOU GOING AND HOW ARE THEY REACTING TO THE MARSHALL PROJECT?

>> WE TALK -- THE SYSTEM IS HUGE, FIRST OF ALL, PEOPLE SAY, YOU WRITE ABOUT CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

ONE SUBJECT?

DOESN'T THAT GET BORING?

ARE YOU KIDDING?

ALL 50 STATES DO IT DIFFERENT AND MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES AND 18 THOUSAND LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

THERE IS A LOT OF VARIETY.

SECOND OF ALL, IT ENCOMPASSES EVERYTHING THE EDUCATION, THE PRISON PIPELINE, POLICING, CRIME, PROSECUTORS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, JUDGES, PRISON CONDITIONS, REENTRY, SOMETHING DRAMATIC HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY.

WHEN I WAS A CHILD, A LONG TIME AGO, THERE WERE A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN PRISON.

AND THERE ARE ALMOST 200 -- WE INCARCERATED MILLIONS OF AMERICANS IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME.

AND THERE WAS SO MUCH RESOURCES THAT WAS FLOWING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SPENT IN WELFARE, EDUCATION, HEALTH -- >> SOCIAL JUSTICE.

>> ALL OF THESE ISSUES.

HOUSING.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE TOUCHES ON ALL OF THE OTHER AREA.

THIS IS THE MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM.

WE DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE GO WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

THEY GO TO PRISON.

>> LAW ENFORCEMENT, JUDGES, ADVOCATES, WE SPEAK TO A WIDE RANGE OF AMERICANS TO PRODUCE IT.

WE TRY TO DO IT FAIRLY.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE IS CONTESTED EVERY COURT CASE IS TWO PEOPLE STANDING UP IN COURT SAYING RADICALLY DIFFERENT THINGS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

THREADING YOUR WAY AS A JOURNALIST, YOU ARE JOURNALISTS, IT IS HARD WORK.

HOW TO BE FAIR TO EVERYONE IN THE SYSTEM.

>> LET'S PICK UP THERE.

>> NO, YOU ARE FINE.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO JOURNALISM, ADVOCATISM, WHEN WE WERE COMING UP, THOSE WERE AT ODDS.

WHERE DOES THE MARSHALL PROJECT FIT INTO THAT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT ADVOCATES.

WE ARE JOURNALISTS AND WE ARE PROUD OF THAT AND WE REACH AUDIENCES.

IF OTHER MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS THOUGHT WE WERE ADVOCATES, WE COULDN'T PLACE OUR STORIES IN THEIR PAPERS.

WE FOLLOW THE SAME SET OF ETHICS, MULTIPLE SOURCES, TELL ALL SIDES OF THE STORIES.

SOMETHING THAT WE WERE TRAINED TO DO.

I HAVE BEEN AN ADVOCATE.

THIS IS NOT ADVOCACY.

BUT, JOURNALISM PROPELLED CHANGE.

AND IF WE ARE TAKING ANY POSITION AT THE MARSHALL PROJECT, IT IS ONLY ONE, I HOPE IT IS NOT CONTROVERSIAL, CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS A MESS!

IT IS A NATIONAL DISGRACE.

IT SPEWS POISON EVERYONE WHO TOUCHES IT.

IT IS NOT HEALTHY.

SO, HOW CAN WE SHINE A LIGHT ON IT AND LOOK FOR A BETTER WAY.

>> -- [INDISCERNIBLE].

>> WE HAVE 70 PEOPLE ON STAFF AND PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHEN YOU SAY NEWSROOM IN ST. LOUIS, WOULD THAT BE -- >> SPECIFICALLY FOR A ST. LOUIS AUDIENCE.

>> HOW DID YOU DECIDE ON ST. LOUIS?

THOSE HERE DON'T WANT -- NECESSARILY, I MEAN -- IT IS CONCERNED ABOUT FERGUSON, WHATEVER PASSIONS ABOUT THAT.

IS THAT STILL -- WHAT IT IS ABOUT ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI, THAT MAKES YOU WANT [INDISCERNIBLE] FULL TIME NEWSROOM.

>> THE FEASIBILITY STUDIES WE DO LOOKING AT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE, ISSUES, AND THE PHILANTHROPY, WE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT IN ST. LOUIS.

THERE ANOTHER PART OF THAT, RAY, WHICH IS POSSIBILITY OF CHANGE.

THERE IS A LOT OF POSITIVE ACTIVITY AROUND CRIMINAL JUSTICE IN ST. LOUIS AND AROUND MISSOURI.

THERE'S NOT HAPPENING.

THERE ARE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS AND GROUPS.

THERE A LOT HAPPENING IN THE COUNTY JAIL.

THERE IS A LOT TO RIGHT ABOUT AND PEOPLE APPRECIATING OUR JOURNALISM AND USING IT.

THAT IS APART OF THE CALCULATION.

THIS IS SOMEWHERE WHERE IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

>> YOU MENTIONED CLEVELAND.

HOW MANY OTHERS?

>> WE ARE HOPING TO DO FIVE IN FIVE YEARS.

>> CLEVELAND GOING SO FAR.

WE HOPE ST. LOUIS IS THE SECOND.

AND FEASIBILITY STUDIES IN OTHER STATES TOO.

WHAT IS GOING TO DETERMINE, IT IS A QUESTION OF RAISING MONEY?

>> IT IS A QUESTION OF RAISING THE MONEY.

WE ARE WILLING FROM OUR NATIONAL BUDGET TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE BUDGET OF THE ST. LOUIS NEWSROOM.

BUT WE WANT TO COME TO A PLACE THAT WANTS US.

WE WANT TO COME TO A PLACE WHERE LOCAL PHILANTHROPY FEELS LIKE THIS IS AN IMPORTANT.

WE WANT TO FEEL LIKE A PRIORITY TO THE COMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE NOW IS TALKING TO A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE TO ASSESS IF THAT IS, IN FACT, THE FACT.

>> DOES IT FEEL LIKE THERE IS THE SUPPORT HERE IN THE COMMUNITY?

>> IT FEELS LIKE, OH MY GOSH, IT IS GREAT TO US.

>> THE PROJECT SAYS THERE'S A BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM CHAOTIC.

IS THERE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT?

WE ARE WATCHING POLITICAL ADS THAT WOULD SORT OF COUNTER, IT WOULD RUN COUNTER TO THAT ASSERTION.

>> THE FIRST MAJOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILL IN DECADES WAS PASSED UNDER DONALD TRUMP AND SIGNED INTO THE LAW BY TRUMP AND A LOT OF SUPPORT ON CAPITOL HILL.

CERTAINLY, CRIME RATES ARE BEING WEAPONIZED IN THIS ELECTION.

AND THAT IS A MATTER OF CONCERN.

BUT, I STILL KNOW A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO THINK THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS A BIG GOVERNMENT PROGRAM THAT IS FAILING.

AND WE ARE WASTING MONEY ON IT.

>> YEP.

>> I KNOW A LOT OF REPUBLICANS THAT PEOPLE DESERVE SECOND CHANCES AND WE ARE WRONG TO THROW AWAY PEOPLE LIKE HUMAN GARBAGE.

THERE IS A STRONG SUPPORT.

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES; IDAHO HAS MORE ROBUST MONEY FOR PEOPLE, IT IS A BLUE STATE.

THE MAIN CHARACTER IN OUR STORY IS A WOMAN WHO RAN A GUNMAN STORE.

BIG PROPONENTS FOR GUNS.

WHY SHOULD A LITTLE PERSON HAVE TO STAND UP TO BIG GOVERNMENT ALONE?

THAT IS WRONG.

PEOPLE CAN COME FROM ALL KINDS OF DIRECTIONS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT MASS INCARSATIINCAR INCARCERATI INCARCERATION, YOU HAVE TO POINT TO CLINTON.

THERE IS PLENTY OF BLAME ON BOTH SIDES AND PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY FOR SOLUTION ON BOTH SIDES.

>> WHO IS YOUR TARGET WHEN YOU -- WHO ARE THE KINDS OF PHILANTHROPIST WHO FUND IT?

>> THE MARSHALL PROJECT?

>> YEAH.

>> WE DRAW FROM A RANGE OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF PEOPLE.

PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STATE OF THE MEDIA.

VERY, VERY CONCERNED.

THE POLARIZATION OF MEDIA.

WE HAVE FACT-BASED JOURNALISM.

AND I SAW THIS IN OUR COPY, AND I SAID TAKE OUT FACT-BASED.

THAT IS REDUNDANT.

YOU HAVE TO SAY IT IS DIFFERENT.

WE ARE A JOURNALISM ORGANIZATION THAT IS PUBLISHING FACTS.

THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

THERE IS ALL KINDS OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS TOWNS THAT LOSE THEIR NEWSPAPER BOTTOM MORE POLARIZED THAT LOCAL MEDIA ARE A STABILIZING FORCE IN A COMMUNITY, AND SOMETHING THAT CAN IN SOME SENSE GATHER AROUND.

AND WHEN THAT DISAPPEARS, THAT'S REALLY UNHEALTHY.

SO, WE DIFFERENTLY HAVE SUPPORTERS WHO CARE ABOUT MEDIA AND WANT INDEPENDENT MEDIA TO EXIST.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE.

PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THEY WANT TO SYSTEM TO CHANGE AND IT TAKES A LOT TO MAKE THE CHANGE HAPPEN.

IT TAKES ADVOCATES, PEOPLE IN POWER TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS.

IT TAKES JOURNALISM TO SHINE A BRIGHT LIGHT ON IT.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF JOURNALISTS AND THE NUMBER OF MEDIA OUTLETS THAT HAVE DOWNSIZED, THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCHING THE CHICKEN COOP.

>> IT IS REALLY KIND OF FRIGHTENING.

I HAVE TO SAY, BEING IN CLEVELAND WHERE THE PLAIN DEALER, A ONCE DEALER THAT WON PRIZES AND DID GREAT WORK.

IT IS A ZOMBIE PAPER.

IT EXISTS BY NAME, THEY ARE UNDER CLEVELAND.COM.

AND THEY ARE NO LONGER EMPLOYEES ANY LONGER.

YOU CAN FEEL IT.

YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE THE ISSUES THAT THE COUNTY COURT SYSTEM WENT UP TO PREVENT US TO GET PUBLIC DATA.

>> YES, WE DO!

.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> YOU CAN FEEL WHEN A GOVERNMENT GETS USED TO NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT ITSELF.

POWER HAS TO BE PRESSED.

WHEN NOT, IT GETS LAZY AND ABUSIVE.

>> DO YOU RUN INTO COMPETITIVE FEELINGS FROM THE LOCAL PRESS, WHERE YOU ARE HIRING, IDEALLY, YOU ARE HIRING TALENTED JOURNALISTS.

THERE'S A TON OF THOSE.

DO YOU GET RESISTANCE AT ALL FROM LOCAL DAILY NEWSPAPER, FOR EXAMPLE?

>> THE STORIES THAT WE HAVE PUBLISHED IN CLEVELAND SO FAR, WE GOT STARTED THIS SUMMER, EARLY FALL, WE HAVE PUBLISHED THEM ALL WITH SOMETIMES 6 OR 7 OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS.

WE ARE BRINGING VALUE TO THEM.

>> I MENTIONED THE JOURNALISTS WE HIRED LEFT THE FIELD ANY WAY.

ONE OF OUR MAIN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, HE WAS DOING CORPORATE PR AND RUNNING A TACO TRUCK.

THIS IS NOT WHAT A GUY NEEDS TO DO WITH A GUY OF THIS TALENT.

WE DIDN'T TAKE ANYBODY AWAY FROM ANYTHING.

WE ARE TRYING TO BRING VALUE.

>> THE MARSHALL PROJECT WANTS TO CREATE A SENSE OF URGENCY AROUND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WE HAVE A SENSE OF URGENCY AROUND SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS IN OUR COUNTRY, SO MANY DIFFERENT AREAS OF CONCERN.

DO YOU SEE THE MARSHALL PROJECT GOING BEYOND THE REALM OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM?

>> WE COVER THE IMMATERIIGRATIOMMIGRATION.

IT IS PARALLEL.

I THINK THE PROJECT IS SO IDENTIFIED WITH CRIMINAL JUSTICE THAT I'M RELUCTANTED TO DILUTE OUR BRAND BY TAKING ON OTHER ISSUES.

THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS SO LARGE AND TROUBLED.

WE HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF WORK.

OUR NAME IS FOR MARSHALL, A JUSTICE, A CIVIL RIGHTS ICON.

AND HE HAD -- INCARCERATED.

WE IDENTIFY WITH THIS ISSUE.

SPEAKING PERSONALLY AS SOMEONE WHO WORKED ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN MY PREVIOUS JOB ACROSS THE PLANET, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS THE BIGGEST HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEM IN OUR STATE.

>> CAN YOU SPEAK TO OUR VIEWERS DIRECTLY ABOUT HOW THIS IMPACTS THEM INDIVIDUALLY.

>> THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT EFFECTS EVERY INDIVIDUAL WHETHER HAVE BEEN INCARCERATED OR YOUR FAMILY.

IRE COMMUNITY IS NOT HEALTHY WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT AT LIBERTY TO LIVE THEIR BEST LIVES.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT INDEPENDENT JOURNALISM, AND YOU FEEL THAT THE PUBLIC IS INFORMED ABOUT THIS CRUCIAL AREA OF PUBLIC POLICY, THE MARSHALL PROJECT IS FOR YOU.

TAKE A LOOK AT OUR WORK.

WE DON'T TAKE POSITIONS ON WHAT WE COVER, WE LEAVE IT FOR YOU TO DECIDE.

>> IT IS FASCINATING.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THE PRESIDENT OF MARSHALL PROJECT.

THE MARSHALL PROJECT.ORG.

>> THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR VISITING WITH US TONIGHT ON NEXT UP ON BEHALF OF RAY HARTMANN AND EVERYONE HERE AT 9 PBS.

HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEKEND AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.