>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK, ORIGINATING FROM THE BARE STUDIO AT NINE PBS.

AND WE SAY THE BARE STUDIO BECAUSE AFTER WATCHING THIS PROGRAM, YOU MIGHT NEED TWO BAYER ASPIRIN.

WENDY IS TAKING THE DAY OFF AND IN HER PLACE, WE WELCOME FOR THE FIRST TIME HERE AT DONNYBROOK JEAN EVANS, REGULAR CONTRIBUTOR ON A WEEKLY BASIS TO THE DAVE GLOVER SHOW ON KMOX.

HELLO, JEAN, WELCOME ABOARD.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN IS BACK AFTER A WEEK OFF.

OF COURSE, HE'S WITH THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, ONE OF OUR FOUNDERS.

ANOTHER FOUNDER, MR. RAY HARTMANN FROM THE RIVERFRONT TIMES, RAWSTORY.COM, AND THE BIG 550 KTRS.

AND FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN WHERE HE'S A SPORTS COLUMNIST AND THE NEWS EDITOR, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ALVIN REID.

SPEAKING OF JOURNALISTS, BIMG, LESTER HOLT WAS IN TOWN THIS WEEK BROADCASTING THE NBC NIGHTLY NEWS FROM ST. LOUIS AND WASN'T THE BEST TIMING BECAUSE THIS WAS THE WEEK THAT THE MAYOR HAD A PRESS CONFERENCE ON GUN VIOLENCE AND GUN SHOTS ACTUALLY RANG OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND IT BECAME KIND OF LEAD STORY FOR LESTER HOLT WHEN HE WAS PROFILING ST. LOUIS.

I THOUGHT THE MAYOR'S REACTION WAS VERY COOL, CALM AND COLLECTED, BUT SHE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE TOO OUTRAGED OR SHOCKED BY IT AND I THOUGHT THAT IN AND OF ITSELF MIGHT BE A LITTLE PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES TO GUN VIOLENCE IN ST. LOUIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I DISAGREE WITH YOU, CHARLIE.

I DON'T THINK IF THE MAYOR HAD ACTED OUTRAGED, IT WOULD MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE OR BETTER.

I THOUGHT HER COMMENTS WERE ALMOST POETIC AND KIND OF POIGNANT WHEN SHE SAID SHE AND HER SON GO TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT TO THE LULLABY OF GUNFIRE, IT REMINDED ME OF A SCENE IN "THE WIRE," WHICH NEXT TO DONNYBROOK WAS BEST TV EVER, I THOUGHT, IT'S A GOOD NIGHT MOON SCENE.

GOOD NIGHT SIRENS, GOOD NIGHT GUNFIRE, GOOD NIGHT SHOOTERS.

REALLY TOUCHING.

AND WHEN THE MAYOR SAID THE LULLABY OF GUNFIRE, I THOUGHT, WOW, THAT'S "THE WIRE."

>> I WAS AN INTERN IN CINCINNATI IN 1981 AND IT WAS LIKE A LITTLE EFFICIENCY APARTMENT IN THE THIRD FLOOR OF AN OLD HOUSE, BUT RIGHT ACROSS ONE OF THE STREETS WAS A, LIKE A POLICE AND LIKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND WHEN I -- LIKE THE FIRST NIGHT I WAS THERE, EVERY TIME THERE WAS SHOT UP AND I WAS LIKE, OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD.

WITHIN TWO WEEKS, ALL I WOULD HEAR IS WHEN THEY WERE BACKING BACK IN.

I HAD SLEPT THROUGH THE WHOLE WREN THING.

-- SIREN THING.

IT'S BAD, BUT YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HEAR IT ENOUGH, YOU DON'T REACT TO IT.

IF I'M AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AND I'M HAVING A PRESS CONFERENCE ON GUN VIOLENCE AND A GUN GOES OFF, ABOUT THE WORST THING I CAN DO IS DIVE UNDER MY CHAIR.

>> OR NOT.

MAYBE SHE SHOULD HAVE SAID, OKAY, IS EVERYBODY OKAY?

WE HAVE A SQUAD CAR FOLLOWING SHOTS.

QUENTIN LUCAS, THE MAYOR OF KANSAS CITY, DID JUMP IN.

AFTER MAYOR JONES KEPT TALKING, SHE DIDN'T LET THE GUNFIRE INTERRUPT HER SPEECH, HE SAID, HEY, I GOT TO TALK ABOUT THIS GUN FIRE HERE, AS IF -- BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE ACTING LIKE IT DIDN'T EXIST.

>> YEAH, IT WAS VERY COINCIDENTAL, BUT IT IS SAD HOW DESENSITIZED WE'VE BECOME AND SHE'S EXTREMELY TALENTED, AS IS MAYOR LUCAS, BUT WHEN YOU LIVE IN THE CITY, YOU PROBABLY ARE DESENSITIZED TO THE VIOLENCE.

WHERE I LIVE, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE CALLED THE COPS.

IT'S REALLY SAD, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT WAS SORT OF POETIC.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ON A DAILY BASIS IN ST. LOUIS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT.

INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING, YEAH, THIS IS NORMAL, IT'S BECOME NORMALIZED AND IT'S MORE AND MORE OUTRAGED WHEN YOU HEAR GUNSHOTS EVERY DAY AND KIDS ARE BEING SHOT.

>> I DON'T AGREE.

SHE STAYED COOL AND CALM.

I DO NOT AGREE SHE'S DESENSITIZED TO GUN VIOLENCE.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE I KNOW IN THE CITY WOULD REACT.

IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE IN THE CITY HEAR GUNSHOTS AND THEY DON'T THINK ANYTHING.

I THINK THEY AREN'T DESENSITIZED TO IT AND I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE SAID IT'S THAT COMMON FOR THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE CITY TO BE HEARING GUN SHOTS.

I THINK IN HER CASE, SHE LIVED IN A PART OF THE CITY WHERE -- AS BILL SAID, I THOUGHT IT WAS A REALLY GOOD MOMENT FOR HER BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET MANY SPONTANEOUS MOMENTS AS A POLITICIAN TO REACT TO THINGS AND I THOUGHT SHE WAS SO QUICK ON HER FEET.

THE FIRST THING SHE DID WAS NOTHING AND IT WASN'T SCRIPTED, BUT LUCAS WAS GOOD TO SAY WHAT HE SAID, BUT I THOUGHT THAT HER -- IT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY BIG MOMENT FOR HER.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU, BUT TO JEAN'S POINT, WHERE I -- I LIVE IN KIRKWOOD AND IF I HEARD A ROUND OF, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY UNLOADING A CLIP, EVEN IF IT WAS INTO THE AIR AT 11:30 IN THE MORNING, MY FIRST REACTION WOULD BE TO CALL THE POLICE.

>> MOST PEOPLE IN THE CITY WOULD TOO.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WHO WERE THERE WENT TO THEIR CELL PHONE AND SAID SHOTS HAVE BEEN FIRED.

>> I THINK PEOPLE IN THIS CITY WHEN THEY HEAR GUNS GOING OF, ARE GOING TO CALL THE POLICE.

>> BUT I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MORE OUT OF THEIR MINDS ON THIS PANEL BY THINGS THEY HEARD HERE THAN THE WAY THE MAYOR REACTED WHEN THERE WAS GUNFIRE DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE.

>> WELL, THAT'S GOOD.

ISN'T -- FIRST OF ALL, FOR HER TO STAY CALM AND TO BE, AS BILL SAID, KIND OF POETIC ABOUT IT ON HER FEET, TALK ABOUT POLITICIANS BEING SCRIPTED, I THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT MOMENT.

>> AND LITERALLY, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT I HEAR ALL THE TIME?

WHAT GUNFIRE?

I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING AND GOT IN TROUBLE BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE MADE LIGHT OF IT.

>> OKAY, NEXT TOPIC.

RAY HARTMANN, FRONT PAGE IN TODAY'S POST-DISPATCH, BOFRT FOLD, JOSH HAWLEY, JUNIOR SENATOR, STATE OF MISSOURI, IS BEING SUED BECAUSE IT'S ALLEGED HIS 2018 CAMPAIGN CONSPIRED WITH THE NRA THROUGH SOME SHELL CORPORATIONS AND SOME MONEY THAT WAS IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAWS, THAT HIS CAMPAIGN SPECIFICALLY SHOULD NOT BE OPERATING IN TANDEM WITH SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT FUND CAMPAIGNS.

WELL, DO YOU THINK HE'S IN TROUBLE ON THIS ONE?

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE STORY?

>> I THOUGHT THE STORY WAS OVERPLAYED, FRANKLY.

I DO THINK HE PROBABLY DID IT, GIVEN HIS PAST?

SURE, HE MOST LIKELY HAD A SLIMY ARRANGEMENT WITH THE NRA.

POLITICIANS DO THAT.

THE REASON -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND, JOSH HAWLEY IS THE, REALLY SECOND TO NONE, AS AN INSURRECTIONIST AND FOR AN INSURRECTIONIST TO BE WORRIED ABOUT CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS IS LIKE A CANNIBAL BEING SERVED WITH A HEALTH CITATION.

NO, HE'S NOT -- I APOLOGIZE TO CANNIB CANNIBALS.

BUT FOR JOSH HAWLEY, HE COULD CARE LESS IF IT'S SOMETHING HE'LL FUNDRAISE OFF OF PFR IT IS CIVIL, HE'S IN NO TROUBLE, BUT IT'S JUST ANOTHER DAY AT THE OFFICE FOR HIM.

>> ESPECIALLY, IT'S NOT ONLY CIVIL, BUT IT'S BY A GROUP THAT HAS AN AGENDA AND THE AGENDA IS ONE I LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF GUN CONTROL.

I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT, BUT WHEN A GROUP IN FAVOR OF GUN CONTROL MAKES ALLEGATIONS AGAINST A GUN GUY LIKE JOSH HAWLEY, I MEAN, IT'S NOT REALLY VERY DRAMATIC NEWS.

>> SO FAR I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOUR VIEW.

I KNOW JOSH HAWLEY FRET QUELL AND I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED IF HE EVER DID ANYTHING ILLEGAL WITH REGARD TO CAMPAIGN FINANCE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

HE'S HAVE MUCH ABOVE THE BOARD.

I DO THINK HE IS A TARGET BECAUSE HE'S HAD SUCH A HIGH PROFILE AND I THINK YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SEE GROUPS LIKE THIS GO AFTER HIM, BUT IT'S CIVIL, NOTHING'S BEEN PROVEN.

IT'S JUST AN ALLEGATION AT THIS POINT, SO WHY IT DID END UP ON THE FRONT PAGE?

I DO AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

THAT SEEMS A LITTLE OVERPLAYED.

IS THIS REALLY THE BIGGEST NEWS STORY OF THE DAY?

>> WELL, THE GIFFORD ORGANIZATION DID TAKE IT TO THE FEC, WHICH DID NOTHING WITH IT, SO THAT'S WHY IT ENDED UP IN COURT, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME THIS CAMPAIGN IS BECOMING INURED TO CAMPAIGN VIOLATIONS AS WE ARE TO VIOLENCE.

>> WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, I WILL NEVER BE DESENSITIZED TO SOMEBODY SAYING EVEN AN ALLEGATION THAT I BROKE THE LAW.

AND THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH WOULD BE, THEY DON'T LIKE ME AND DON'T WANT ME RE-ELECTED.

THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH WOULD PROBABLY BE A SWEAR WORD, NO, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN, I'M FIGHTING THIS.

I'M NEVER GOING TO SAY, WELL, THEY'RE JUST OUT TO GET ME, OR BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, BLAH BLAH.

IF YOU SAID, EVEN HINTED I DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL, I'M -- FIRST OF ALL, I'M NOT SITTING THERE AND JUST TAKING THAT, OKAY?

AND I THINK JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE POLITICIANS AND BECAUSE THEY, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, NO, NOT ME.

>> IT DOES, TOO, ALL THE TIME.

>> I FIGHT THEM EVERY TIME.

EVERY TIME SOMEBODY ACCUSED ME OF BREAKING THE LAW, BELIEVE ME, I'D BE READY TO BREAK -- >> IT HAPPENS TO POLITICIANS.

>> WHAT DOESN'T HAPPEN EVERY DAY, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF MISSOURI IS NOT ACCUSED OF VPG HIS CAMPAIGN RUN HIS OFFICE OUT OF HIS OFFICE FOR A YEAR, WHICH IS WHAT JOSH HAWLEY WAS ACCUSED OF.

HIS CAMPAIGN WAS RUNNING HIS OFFICE.

HE BARELY SHOWED UP.

>> I SAW HIM ALL THE TIME.

>> YOU MIGHT LIKE HIM, JEAN, AND YOU KNOW HIM AND I'VE NEVER MET HIM, BUT AFTER HE RAN FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THE PREMISE THAT THIS ISN'T A STEPPING STONE AND ALL I WANT TO BE IS ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THEN THREE MONTHS AFTER HE'S INAUGURATED, HE'S ANNOUNCING THAT HE'S RUNNING FOR SENATE LIKE HE HAD NEVER HEARD OF THE U.S. SENATE.

I MEAN, FROM THAT POINT ON, WHEN PEOPLE SAY, AT LEAST HE'S HONEST, I GO, WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

>> FAIR POINT.

>> BUT ISN'T IT TRUE, THOUGH, THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION VIOLATIONS, AT LEAST AT THE STATE LEVEL, AND PEOPLE GET FINED AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE OF FOLLOW UP TO FIND OUT IF ANY OF THESE POLITICIANS ACTUALLY PAY THE FINE.

>> I THINK THEY DO -- >> ERIC GREITENS GOT POSSIBLY THE LARGEST CIVIL FINE EVER WHEN HE -- AND THIS IS WHAT HE USED AS A STEPPING STONE TO ANNOUNCE IN FEBRUARY.

I JUST WROTE ABOUT THIS.

HE PAID, I THINK IT WAS $180,000 HE WAS FINED, AND THEY HAVE A DEAL THAT THE POLITICIANS HAVE SOMEHOW NEGOTIATED WHERE IF YOU PAY ON IT TIME, YOU ONLY HAVE TO PAY 20%.

I REMEMBER SAYING THIS AT THE TIME.

GEE, I WISH CITIZENS COULD SAY, I'LL TAKE -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> IF YOU GET FINED FOR SPEEDING BUT -- >> IT'S NOT FEDERAL.

A VIOLATION AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL -- >> YOU GO TO JAIL, YES.

>> BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE STATE LEVEL AND HERE'S GREITENS -- >> OKAY, JEAN, LET'S TOPIC THE TOPIC WITH SENATOR JOSH HAWLEY WHOM YOU ADMIRE.

HE THIS WEEK CAME OUT IN A SPEECH SAYING THAT IN THE UNITED STATES, WE'RE ATTACKING MASCULINITY, THAT THE AMERICAN MALE IS BEING DIMINISHED AND ILLS RESULTING IN A LOT OF GUYS TURNING TO PORN AND EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF TIME ON VIDEO GAMES.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S CAUSING WHAT, BUT APPARENTLY A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE INTO PORN FOR WHATEVER REASON, BUT ALSO, WE HAVE SEEN STUDIES IN USA TODAY AND NEW YORK TIMES THAT THE AMERICAN MALE IS NOT GOING TO COLLEGE IN THE SAME PERCENTAGES THAT IT WAS, NOT GOING TO MEDICAL SCHOOL OR LAW SCHOOL.

I THINK THE AMERICAN MALE IS IN A RUT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT I WILL SAY THIS ABOUT JOSH HAWLEY.

HE SEEMS TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF A LOT OF THESE THOUGHT PROCESSES.

A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT FACEBOOK AND THE MONOPOLY THAT DIGITAL MEDIA HAS OVER THE INTERNET, PEOPLE KIND OF POO-POOED IT AND NOW IT'S MAIN STREAM THOUGHT T EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT, THEY HAD HEARINGS ABOUT IT.

ONE OF THE THINGS I ADMIRE ABOUT HIM IS HE'S NOT AFRAID TO STICK HIS NECK OUT ON A LOT OF THESE, HE'S NOT WAITING TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE SAY IN THE POLLS BEFORE HE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I WOULDN'T BE SPRIPESED IF IT BECAME MAINSTREAM IN SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR.

>> I THINK THIS IS JUST SOME MORE, NOT NUTTY, BUT GUYS ARE GUYS.

WE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, AND I THINK IT'S A VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, LOST THEIR MASCULINITY OR LOST THEIR WAY.

IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO COLLEGE, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALL MAN?

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING, CHARLIE, ABOUT YOU'RE NOT DOING THIS OR YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL OR NOT GOING TO BE A DOCTOR BECAUSE THE WORLD DOESN'T -- >> I DON'T GET THAT.

>> I THINK PART OF THAT IS WOMEN ARE GENERALLY SMARTER THAN MEN.

I THOUGHT THAT FOREVER.

MAYBE BECAUSE I'VE BEEN SURROUNDED -- MY MOM WAS SMART, MY SISTER, MY WIFE.

AND I THINK THAT WHEN ALL THESE DOORS WERE OPENED FOR WOMEN AND THEY COULD GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL AND LAW SCHOOL, IT -- THEY'RE GOING TO GET IN IN GREAT NUMBERS.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A MASCULINITY PROBLEM.

>> BEING A GIRL DAD, I GOT TWO, ONE IS IN COLLEGE AND ONE HAS GRADUATED.

IF YOU SAID SOMETHING JUST EVEN THE SLIGHTEST THING ABOUT ONE OF THEM, YOU'RE GOING TO GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE, OKAY?

THAT HAS NOT CHANGED.

THERE'S THIS -- I DON'T KNOW.

>> CHARLIE, I DON'T THINK THIS IS -- >> THERE'S A BOOK CALLED HILLBILLY ELEGY AND IT DOES DESCRIBE PRETTY WELL IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE GUYS THAT ARE DOWN AND OUT.

>> GUYS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOWN AND OUT.

>> THAT'S PART OF BEING A GUY.

>> WE USED TO BE JOHN WAYNE.

WHERE'S THE JOHN WAYNES?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT HAWLEY, THIS IS PART -- HE'S VERY SHARP AND HE'S A WEALTHY BANKER'S SON WHO TRIED TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS THIS OPIE TAYLOR, MIDWESTERN FARM BOY, AND THIS IS A VERY CALCULATED AND SMART LITTLE SLIVER OF THE CULTURE WAR.

THIS IS AIMED ULTIMATELY AT WOKE PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, ON THE OTHER SIDE.

THAT'S WHAT HE'S DRAWING OUT, AND I THINK IT'S NONSENSE.

>> REALLY?

>> YEAH, I DO THINK IT'S NONSENSE.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST NONSENSE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ATTACK GUYS FOR BEING GUYS AND THEY ARE A FOIL IN THE CULTURE WAR AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S GOING FOR.

I THINK THE PREMISE OF IT IS NONSENSE AND I DON'T DISAGREE THAT HE SAYS A FACT BEFORE EVERYBODY HE IS DOES.

>> HERE'S WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING.

POT SALES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF AND THESE GUYS ARE JUST SMOKING POT, ALVIN REID, AND HANGING OUT AND NOT APPLYING FOR JOBS AND THEY'RE ON THE SIDELINES, AND THE PROOF IS IN ILLINOIS THIS PAST WEEK, IT WAS REPORTED IN THE FIRST TEN MONTHS OF THE YEAR IN THE LAND OF LINCOLN OF ALL PLACES, $1.1 BILLION IN MARIJUANA SALES.

>> RIGHT.

AND AS BILL SAID, I THINK WOMEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.

>> THANK YOU, ALVIN.

>> NO, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE -- IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE ILLINOIS KIND OF SAW THE LIGHT.

OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE BEFORE MOST STATES DID, AND THEY'RE REAPING THE BENEFIT OF THAT.

YOU CANNOT COME TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND SAY WE'RE BROKE, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO OR BLAH BLAH BLAH, WITHOUT EXHAUSTING ALL WAYS OF RAISING REVENUES IN A STATE.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN JUST THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, IF YOU -- THE TOWNS -- THIS IS TRUE IN COLORADO, TOO, AND OTHER STATES.

LIKE WHERE THE LOCAL TAX IS TAKEN, OKAY?

THEY HAVE TO, LIKE ANY OTHER TAX, YOU HAVE TO SPEND THAT MONEY AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO BRING PEOPLE -- THEY HAVE LITTLE TOWN HALLS AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THIS MONEY?

AND THEY BUILD PLAY GROUNDS AND THEY FIX SIDEWALKS AND THEY DO THINGS THAT HELP ALL PEOPLE.

SO I MEAN, MISSOURI, LATE TO THE PARTY JUST LIKE WITH THE LOTTERY AND ALL THAT, BUT LET'S NOT MISS THE PARTY ALTOGETHER, OKAY?

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

I WISH WE COULD DO A STUDY ON THIS THISES -- ON THIS.

I DOUBT THERE'S A PENNY MORE BEING SPENT ON MARIJUANA FIVE YEARS AGO, TEN YEARS AGO ON ILLINOIS.

I THINK THEY WISED UP AND THEY'RE GETTING THE TAX DOLLARS.

I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY REASON TO BELIEVE -- >> OH, RAY, DON'T YOU WALK THROUGH THIS COUNTRY NOW AND SMELL A LOT OF MARIJUANA SEEMINGLY EVERY 20 FEET?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S MORE -- >> I DON'T LIKE IT.

>> I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ORGANIZED CRIME, BUT I THINK -- NOT TO HURT YOUR BUSINESS, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REASON TO BELIEVE MORE PEOPLE ARE SMOKING POT.

I JUST THINK THAT THE MONEY IS GETTING CHANNELED TO TAXATION.

>> AND THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

THIS IS THE TAX PART OF IT.

THIS IS REALLY NOT A PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I'M JUST SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE, IF IT'S THERE AND YOU CAN TAX IT -- >> YOU'RE NOT TOO CONCERNED THAT THERE'S A BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF PEOPLE GETTING HIGH IN THE LAND OF LINCOLN?

>> THEY ALREADY WERE.

>> ARE YOU UPSET BECAUSE THEY'RE FEEL GOING ABOUT THEMSELVES, CHARLIE?

THAT'S THE WAY YOU MAKE IT SOUND.

>> THEY'RE NOT AND NIEG FOR JOBS.

WE GOT ALL THESE JOB OPENINGS.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO THE LAST THING WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT WOMEN, AND MAKE A CORRECTION.

I SAID THAT I'VE BEEN SURROUNDED BY SMART WOMEN, MY MOTHER, MY SISTER, MY WIFE, AND I FORGOT TO MENTION MY DAUGHTER.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

OH YEAH.

>> HOW ABOUT YOUR GRANDMOTHER?

>> GOOD POINT.

AND WHILE WE'VE GOT YOU ON THE HOTSEAT HERE, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT CAMP COLE.

THIS WAS THE HOMELESS SHELTER FOR 40 GUYS AND MAYBE SOME GALS AFTER THE ENCAMPMENT NEXT TO SQUARE, YOUR OLD BUILDING, 900 NORTH PARKER.

IT GOT OUT OF CONTROL, ONE GUY WAS SHOT, AND JIM McKELVEY SENT ALL HIS EMPLOYEES HOME AND SAID DON'T COME TO DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS BECAUSE THIS PLACE IS CHAOS.

SO THEY PUT TOGETHER THIS ENCAMPMENT AT 14th AND COLE, IT'S CALLED CAMP COLE, OF COURSE, AND THEY RAN OUT OF MONEY.

A CITY WITH $500 MILLION AND A FACILITY FUNDED BY SQUARE IS OUT OF MONEY AFTER 90 DAYS.

WHAT THE HECK?

>> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT AT ALL BECAUSE THE CITY IS AWASH IN ALL THIS PANDEMIC MONEY AND IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD USE OF IT WOULD BE TO HELP THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS AND HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF THE INTERCO PLAZA AND IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S THAT EXPENSIVE TORE A WAREHOUSE AND GET -- TO HAVE A WAREHOUSE AND GET HELP.

AS MUCH AS I SAY WOMEN ARE SMARTER THAN MEN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MAYOR JONES IS DOING ON THIS ONE.

>> I WOULD JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW THE MONEY GETS FROM POINT A TO POINT B ON THIS.

ONE I KNOW THERE'S THAT POT OF MONEY THERE, BUT BEFORE I COULD MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THAT, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT GETS FROM, LIKE I SAY, FROM POINT A TO HOMELESS SHELTER.

CAN SHE JUST -- THE CITY JUST WRITE A CHECK?

AND WHO DOES IT GO TO AND WHO RUNS IT?

>> MAYBE SHE'S GOT TO USE THE BULLY PULPIT AND SHAKE DOWN SOME CORPORATIONS.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

I'M JUST SAYING -- >> IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF COVID MONEY THAT'S BEEN FLOATING AROUND AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT CAN'T BE USED FOR THIS.

IT SEEMS LIKE A VERY GOOD USE OF FUNDS TO TAKE CARE OF THESE FOLKS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE WINTER.

IT'S GETTING COLD.

>> I AGREE.

NOW, THERE MAY BE SOME STIPULATION THAT IT CAN'T GO DIRECTLY TO THE HOMELESS SHELTER UNLESS THE HOMELESS SHELTER IS RECOGNIZED BY THE CITY.

>> WELL, YOU CAN SHIFT THINGS AROUND.

>> YEAH, THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY TO SHIFT THINGS AROUND WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT MONEY, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

I KNOW IT'S EASY TO SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT, BUT THE CITY HAS TO FOCUS ON LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS, AND CAMP COLE IS NOT A LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

AND SO I -- AND I DON'T -- I DO HOPE THAT THE COVID MONEY IS -- I THINK IT'S A -- I UNDERSTAND THE POINT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT COVID MONEY AS THE ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T WHAT IT'S INTENDED FOR.

>> BUT IT COULD BE -- >> I'M SAYING, IT MIGHT BE, BUT I THINK THIS IS A BAD LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

>> SPEAKING OF MONEY, JEAN, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND MISSOURI POLITICS, FORMER CHAIR OF THE STATE GOP, AND YOU WERE A STATE REP. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS PLAN BY THE MAJOR SPORTS TEAMS IN OUR AREA, INCLUDING THE NEW MLS FRAN CHIERKZ THE BLUES, THE CARDINALS, TO GO TO THE VOTERS TO SEE IF THE VOTERS WOULD LIKE TO APPROVE GAMBLING FOR SPORTS?

THIS IN A STATE WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE CHAMPAGNE COMING OUT OF THE FAUCETS AT SCHOOLS AFTER THE LOTTERY AND CASINO GAMBLING.

YOU THINK THAT NOW WE SHOULD, SPEAKING OF VICES, ALVIN, EXTEND GAMBLING TO SPORTS IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI?

>> WELL, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS LIKE MARIJUANA, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHETHER WE ALLOW IT OR NOT.

>> REALLY?

>> IT'S HAPPENING, BUT THERE'S BEEN BILLS TO PASS THIS SINCE I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IT HASN'T GONE THROUGH.

WHAT WE SEE HAPPENS IS AFTER SEVERAL YEARS OF TRYING TO PUSH THINGS THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, WHETHER IT WAS MEDICAL MARIJUANA, LEGAL MARIJUANA, AND NOW SPORTS BETTING, PEOPLE GO TO THE -- THEY WANT TO DO AN INITIATIVE PETITION, TAKE IT TO THE VOTERS, AND IT WILL PROBABLY PASS, BUT AS FAR AS MONEY GOES, IT'S ONLY ESTIMATED TO GENERATE ABOUT $12 MILLION IN REVENUE A YEAR FOR THE STATE, WHICH IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE STATE BUDGET.

>> IT WILL BE MORE THAN THAT.

IT WILL.

RIGHT NOW -- >> YOU ALONE -- >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT'S GOT ONE VOTE.

IT WON'T GET SHUT OUT AT THE POLLS.

I CAN TAKE MY PHONE OUT AND MAKE A BET RIGHT NOW, OKAY?

AND I DON'T, OKAY?

BUT -- AND THEN YOU CAN GO OVER TO ILLINOIS AND PLACE A LEGAL WAGER AS WELL.

SO THE SPORT OF -- SPORTS TEAMS JUST WANT THIS MONEY.

OTHER STATES ARE ALREADY CASHING IN, SO THIS IS THE MLS, THE CARDINALS, THE BLUES, THIS IS WEAK.

IF YOU WANT TO HELP A BUSINESS OUT, I DON'T CARE IF I'M A BILLIONAIRE OWNER, IF YOU WANT TO HELP A LOCAL BUSINESS OUT, PASS THIS BECAUSE I'LL MAKE MORE AND IF I MAKE MORE MONEY, THAT'S GREAT FOR THE ENTIRE CITY AND THE STATE.

IT MAKES BUSINESS AND POLITICAL SENSE.

>> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GUY WHO BETS THE KIDS' MILK AND SHOES?

>> HE'S ALREADY BETTING IT.

I DON'T DISAGREE THAT GAMBLING DOESN'T THAT DOWN SIDES.

FIRST OF ALL, THE STATE IS IN THE GAMBLING BUSINESS.

A LOT OF TIMES, WITH THE LOTTERY, WHEN THE STATE ACTS MORALISTIC ABOUT IT, IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT SOMEBODY CUTTING IN ON THEIR TURF.

THEY'RE IN THE GAMBLING BUSINESS, BUT I -- >> BUT HAVEN'T WE SEEN -- >> RIGHT NOW, WHEREVER YOU GO, EVERYBODY CAN BET.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH MARIJUANA.

YOU MADE THIS POINT ABOUT, OH, I WILL.

GUESS WHAT?

HERE WE ARE IN MARIJUANA-FREE MISSOURI AND PEOPLE ARE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING EMPLOYEES, SO I JUST DON'T THINK, IF IT WAS GOING TO BE A MEANINGFUL -- >> BUT RAY -- >> IT'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT ANYTHING.

>> HALF OF AMERICANS DON'T HAVE A PENNY SAVED FOR RETIREMENT AND YOU KNOW THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.

IT'S GOING TO PUT MORE PEOPLE IN WORSE FINANCIAL SHAPE.

>> I'M NOT ARGUING ABOUT ITS VIRTUE.

I'M ARGUING IT'S REAL AND IT'S ALREADY HERE.

>> THE BLAZING SADDLES, THE CASINO, THIS BILL IS IMPORTANT TO THE INSANE GAMBLER.

WE CAN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> LESS THAN TWO MINUTES TO GO AND THEN ALVIN, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO CHRIS KREHMEYER FROM BEYOND HOUSING ON THE SECOND HALF.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE POLICE AND THE COUNTY.

ONLY TWO OUT OF THREE ARE VACCINATED.

GIVE ME A QUICK THOUGHT ON THAT ONE.

>> WELL, I THINK -- I AM A -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN PUBLIC SERVICE, I THINK YOU SHOULD BE VACCINATED AND YOU CAN'T MAKE PEOPLE DO IT, BUT I WOULD TRY TO GET AS CLOSE AS I COULD.

AT 66%, IF I -- 66% IS TOO LOW IN MY ESTIMATION, BUT LET'S GET IT UP TO, YOU KNOW, 85, 90% AND THEN YOU'RE BETTER OFF THAN MOST OF AMERICA IS.

IN FACT, WHERE WE'RE AT IN AMERICA -- >> 50-SOMETHING.

>> SO ACTUALLY, THAT'S BETTER THAN AMERICA.

>> YEAH, MISSOURI IS CLOSE TO 50%.

I STILL THINK THEY NEED TO LOOK AT NATURAL IMMUNITY.

SOME POLICE OFFICERS HAVE ALREADY HAD COVID, THEY TALKED TO THEIR DOCTORS, THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE THEY'RE AT.

I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE ISSUE FOR ALL OF THEM, BUT I THINK NATURAL IMMUNITY IS PART OF THE ISSUE.

IN SOME PLACES, THEY DO ACCEPT IT INSTEAD OF GETTING A VACCINE.

NOT HERE LOCALLY, BUT OTHER PLACES.

>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT.

IT'S NOT A MANDATE AS MUCH AS IT'S A CONDITION, THE SAME ONE WE HAVE FOR KIDS HAVING POLIO VACCINES IF YOU WANT TO GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL.

I THINK IT'S THE SAME PRINCIPLE.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A POLICE OFFICER, YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

>> THAT WILL BE OUR LAST WORD, RAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LET'S GO TO THE NAIL BAG AND SEE WHAT PEOPLE SAID ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM.

ST. LOUIS CITY POLICE OR ANY POLICE ADDRESSING SPEEDING VEHICLES VERSUS THOSE WITH EXPIRED LICENSE PLATES AND NON-WORKING SAFETY LIGHTING SHOULD NOT BE MUTUALLY INCLUSIVE.

THAT FROM JOHN JOHNSON.

WE ALSO HEARD FROM LOYAL VIEWERS JOE AND SHARON.

AS ALVIN WOULD SAY, OKAY, ADMIT A MISTAKE WAS MADE, YOU TRIED, BUT THIS NEW SET IS ABSOLUTELY COLD AND IMPERSONAL.

GO BACK TO THE HOMEY ROUNDTABLE.

WELL, JOE AND SHARON, WE'LL HAVE A NEW SET NEXT WEEK.

YOU WRITE IT IN CARE OF NINE PBS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108.

DON'T FORGET THE EMAILS, DONNYBROOK@NINEPBS.ORG AND THOSE TWEETS, #DONNYBROOKSTL.

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST ON APPLE, SPOTIFY, TUNE-IN AND GOOGLE PLAY AND DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE CHRIS KREHMEYER FROM BEYOND HOUSING, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO, WILL JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT FOOD DESERTS IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA.

THANKS TO JEAN EVANS FOR SITTING IN FOR WENDY WIESE.

WENDY WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

DON'T GO AWAY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THE SECOND HALF, WE CALL IT NEXT UP.

IT'S WHERE WE INTERVIEW COMMUNITY LEADERS ABOUT THE ISSUES OF THE DAY, AND TODAY WE'RE SO PROUD TO WELCOME BACK CHRIS KREHMEYER WHO FOR 28 YEARS HAS BEEN THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF BEYOND HOUSING, FAITH-BASED INITIATIVE, THIS TIME IN THE NORMANDY SCHOOL DISTRICT, TRYING TO PROVIDE A VARIETY OF SERVICES, INCLUDING HOUSING TO PEOPLE IN THIS NECK THE WOODS.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M GREAT, CHARLIE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

>> WE SAW RECENTLY AN IMPORTANT GROCERY STORE, A SAVE-A-LOT IN ONE OF YOUR DEVELOPMENTS, HAS PULLED UP STAKES AND IT'S A REAL ISSUE BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE DEFINE A FOOD DESERT AS A GEOGRAPHIC AREA WHERE RESIDENTS HAVE TO DRIVE MORE THAN A MILE TO GET GROCERIES.

IS THIS AREA IN PAGEDALE NOW WHAT WE CONSIDER A FOOD DESERT?

>> YES, AGAIN, THE FRUSTRATING PART FOR US IS THE STORE HAS BEEN OPEN FOR 11 YEARS AND DOING REALLY WELL.

WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE FRUSTRATING AND HARD FOR THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE THERE, BUT QUITE FRANKLY, WE'RE CONFIDENT WE'RE GOING TO REFILL THE SPACE.

WE OWN THE BUILDING, WE BUILT IT, WE OWN IT, AND WE'RE GOING TO GET SOMEBODY TO FILL THE SPACE, WHETHER IT'S ANOTHER GROCERY STORE PROVIDER OR SOMEBODY ELSE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THIS TYPE OF WORK, NOT ONLY BEFORE OUR WORK STARTED HERE ABOUT A DECADE AGO, IT WAS A FOOD DESERT, A DOCTOR DESERT, A RETAIL DESERT, AN ENTERTAINMENT DESERT.

I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THAT MANY NEIGHBORHOODS IN ST. LOUIS, AND QUIENCH, ACROSS THE COUNTRY FACE, ARE PLACE-BASED IN THAT THEY LACK MANY THINGS TO THAT SO MANY OF US TAKE FOR GRANTED.

>> ON THE GROCERY STORE, I RED THAT THEY'RE LOHMAR GIN OPERATIONS AND -- LOW MARGIN OPERATIONS AND ALWAYS ON THE VERY EDGE.

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE A GOOD USE OF TAX MONEY TO HELP OUT A GROCERY STORE, OUT IN COMPLETELY SUBSIDIZE IT, BUT HELP OUT A GROCERY STORE THAT'S IN A FOOD DESERT.

HAVE THEY BEEN ANY HELP TO YOU AT ALL?

>> BILL, THAT MAKES A TON OF SENSE.

THE STATE, NO, BUT AS WE THINK BIN VESTING IN COMMUNITIES -- THINK ABOUT INVSING IN COMMUNITIES, YOUR POINT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

LOOK, PEOPLE GOT TO EAT, RIGHT?

AND PEOPLE GO TO STORES AND THEY BUY FOOD, RIGHT?

SO THE QUESTION IS CAN A FOR-PROFIT COMPANY MAKE A GO OF IT IN A PLACE THAT DOES NOT HAVE AS MUCH INCOME AS OTHERS.

WE THINK THE ANSWER IS YES.

TO YOUR POINT, HOW DO WE ASSIST THEM TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO A GROCERY STORE TO BE SUCCESSFUL?

WHAT KIND OF RENT DO THEY NEED, WHAT OTHER KIND OF SUPPORT DO THEY NEED?

IF YOU PROVIDE A GOOD PRODUCT AT A GOOD PRICE, GUESS WHAT?

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME AND BUY, BUT WE CAN'T DESIGN IT FINANCIALLY LIKE A PLACE IN CHESTERFIELD OR BALLWIN OR SOME OTHER PLACE.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ECONOMICS OF THEIR BUSINESS AND SUBSIDIZE THEM IN SOME KIND OF WAY IF WE WANT PLACES TO GET BETTER.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GROCERY STORE OR RETAIL OR THESE OTHER THINGS, HOW IS THAT COMMUNITY EVER GOING TO GET BETTER AND HOW DO THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE EVER HAVE THE KIND OF LIVES WE WANT THEM TO HAVE.

IT.

>> DOESN'T SEEM LIKE YOU NEED TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO PUBLICLY FINANCE THIS PLACE.

JUST A LITTLE BIT OF HELP MIGHT BE ENOUGH.

IT LASTED 11 YEARS.

>> CORRECT, SO FOR US, IT'S WHOEVER THE NEW PROVIDER IS, WE WANT TO BE A REAL PARTNER AND SAY, LOOK, WE'RE THE LAND LORKD BUT FOR US, I DON'T NEED TO MAKE A PROFIT.

I NEED THIS AREA TO HAVE A GROCERY STORE THAT WORKS AND SERVES THEIR NEEDS AND PROVIDES FRESH, HEALTHY FOOD AT A GOOD PRICE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM ME AS A LANDLORD OR US AS A REGION TO SAY, WE NEED YOUR GROCERY STORE TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND OH BY THE WAY, ACROSS THE PARKING LOT, THERE'S A BANK THERE ALREADY.

DOWN THE STREET THERE'S A MOVIE THEATER.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE ALL THESE THINGS ARE SUCCESSFUL SO PEOPLE SAY, WOW, THIS IS A GOOD MACE TO LIVE, LOOK AT ALL THE AMENITIES THAT WE HAVE.

NOT ONLY DO I WANT TO STAY HERE, BUT I WANT TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE, COME LIVE HERE TOO BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS IN OUR LIFE THAT FOLKS WANT TO HAVE.

>> DID THE FOLKS FROM SAVE-A-LOT, BASED IN RIVER CITY, SAY, OKAY, IT'S THE PANDEMIC, IT'S THE THEFT?

IS IT THERE JUST WEREN'T ENOUGH CUSTOMERS?

WHAT REASONS DID THEY GIVE YOU AS A COMMUNITY LEADER WHY THEY WERE CLOSING UP?

>> THEY JUST SAID THE ECONOMICS DIDN'T WORK FOR THEIR MODEL.

>> THAT COULD BE ALMOST ANYTHING, BUT LET'S SAY YOU WERE SOMEONE OPERATING A GROCERY STORE IN A RATHER LOW INCOME AREA.

WHAT WOULD YOU TELL ME, WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES FOR A GROCER IN THAT AREA?

>> I THINK THE CHALLENGES ARE, WHAT ARE YOUR MARGINS.

BILL SAID IT'S A LOW MARGIN BUSINESS, AGREED.

WHAT KIND OF PRICE POINT AND WHAT KIND OF VOLUME DO YOU NEED IN SALES?

IN THIS STORE, HALF THE SALES WERE SNAP OR FOOD STAMPS AS A FUNCTION OF THE INCOME OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY, SO WHAT'S THE ECONOMIC MIX?

A GROCERY STORE DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, DOESN'T CARE IF I PAY WITH MY DEBIT CARD OR WITH SNAP, ONLY THING SNAP IS NOT TAXABLE, IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL.

WE HAVE A TIF, THIS IS THE ONLY TIF IN THIS REGION, A LEGITIMATE TIF IN THIS COMMUNITY, SO WE GET SOME TAX RESIDUALS TO HELP MAKE THIS THING WORK.

SO WE NEED THE PROVIDER TO TELL US WHAT DOES YOUR MARGIN NEED TO BE, WHAT DO YOUR SALES NEED TO BE, AND LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

>> IN APRIL, THE POST-DISPATCH HAD A STORY ABOUT YOU WERE PLANNING ANOTHER PHASE IN THIS SAME AREA AND YOU WANTED A TAX EXEMPTION ON CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS AND THE STATE SAID NO, AND YOU APPEALED IT AND THE APPEAL SAID YES, AND THEN THE STATE'S TAKEN IT TO STATE SUPREME COURT, AND THE STATE'S LAWYERS WERE CLAIMING THAT IT WAS A PAYOLA SCAM FOR YOUR WEALTHY DONORS.

WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT?

>> WE'RE WAITING ON THE SUPREME COURT TO SEND OUT THE VERDICT, WHICH SHOULD HAPPEN, I'M HOPING, ANY DAY NOW.

WE FIND IT KIND OF RIDICULOUS JUST TO ASSUME THAT THE WORK WE'RE DOING, HAVE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES IS NOT CHARITABLE IS WHAT THEY SAID.

THEIR ASSUMPTION IS IF IT'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IT CAN'T BE CHARITABLE.

THE REASON WHY NO ONE DOES IT IN PLACES LIKE PAGEDALE AND OUR COMMUNITY IS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY WORK ECONOMICALLY.

THAT'S WHY A NOT-FOR-PROFIT HAS TO COME AND TRY TO, AGAIN, BREAK THE ECONOMIC BOUNDARIES THAT PREVENT A FOR-PROFIT DEVELOPER FROM DOING IT.

>> WELL, DO YOU HAVE WAEEALTHY DONORS WHO ARE MAKING MONEY ON YOUR PROJECT?

>> NO, NO.

DO I HAVE DONORS THAT HELP US DO THE WORK?

OF COURSE, I DO, WE'RE A NOT-FOR-PROFIT.

>> SO IF I WERE TO GIVE YOU $100 -- >> I WOULD GIVE YOU A LETTER AND SAY THANKS FOR GIVING ME $100.

THAT'S ALL YOU GET BACK IN RETURN IS A LETTER WITH MY SIGNATURE ON IT, WHICH IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING AT THIS POINT.

IT'S A RIDICULOUS THING FOR THE STATE TO SAY.

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY STATE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY GOT CHASTISED BY THE ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE FOR EVEN SAYING THAT.

HE SAID YOU CAN'T SAY THAT WITHOUT EVIDENCE, WE WERE SPECULATING OUT LOUD AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE TOLD THEM, QUITE FRANKLY, YOU NEED TO STOP THAT.

>> SO CHRISTOPHER, ALMOST THREE DECADES NOW, YOU'VE HEADED UP BEYOND HOUSING AND YOU HAVE CLOSE CHOSEN THE GEOGRAPHIC AREA THAT'S REPRESENTED BY THE NORMANDY SCHOOLS, PINE LAWN, PAGEDALE, NORMANDY.

NOT EXACTLY THE HIGHEST INCOME AREA IN THE GREATER ST. LOUIS AREA, IN FACT ONE OF THE LOWER ONES FOR SURE, AND YOUR PLAN IS TO NOT JUST PROVIDE HOUSING OR A BANK OR A CLINIC OR A GROCERY STORE, BUT A WHOLE BASKET OF SERVICES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE.

AND YOU'RE DOING IT AS A NOT-FOR PROFIT.

IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY OF WHAT YOU GUYS DO?

>> YEAH, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD, CHARLIE, IS TWO THINGS.

ONE, OUR METHODOLOGY IS CALLED ASK, ALIGN AND ACT.

SO WE ASK THE PEOPLE, THE COMMUNITY WHO CALL IT HOME, YOU TELL US WHAT YOU NEED AND WANT, WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS.

WE ALIGN THE RESOURCES AND PARTNER WITH THEM, AND ACT, GET THE WORK DONE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT US SAYING WE KNOW WHEES WRONG WITH YOU AND WE'RE HERE TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS.

NO, WE WORK FOR THIS COMMUNITY, SO WHEN THEY SAY, BOY, WE NEED A GROCERY STORE, SO 11 YEARS AGO, WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO BUILD A GROCERY STORE.

THEY SAID WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ENTERTAINMENT, SO WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO BUILD A FOUR-SCREEN MOVIE THEATER SHOWING FIRST RUN MOVIES FOR THE BEST PRICES IN TOWN.

THEY SAID WE DON'T HAVE HEALTHCARE AND WE BROUGHT IN HEALTHCARE.

THEY SAID WE DON'T HAVE RESTAURANTS, AND NOW I DON'T HAVE RESTAURANTS, BEAUTIFUL FOOD HALL, A CLOTHING BOUTIQUE THAT'S GOING TO OPEN UP ARC FITNESS CENTER, A COMMUNITY KITCHEN.

WE'VE BUILT SEVERAL HUNDRED UNITS OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING, REHABBED OVER A THOUSAND OWNER-OCCUPIED HOMES WITH MOSTLY SENIORS LIVING IN THE HOMES.

WE HAVE 12 PEOPLE EMBEDDED IN THE NORMANDY SCHOOL, WORK CLOSELY WITH ALL THE MAYORS OF THESE SMALL LITTLE CITIES TO HELP THEM BE MORE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT IN DELIVERING DOLLARS.

IT'S ABOUT PLACE AND WHAT MAKES UP A SUCCESSFUL PLACE.

MOST THE PLACES WE LIVE, WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE THINGS WORKING BECAUSE THEY JUST DO.

PLACES LIKE THIS NEED AN ORGANIZATION LIKE OURSELVES AND FINANCIAL SUPPORT FROM THE REGION TO SAY HOW DO WE AGAIN HELP THEM BE SUCCESSFUL, SO BECAUSE AS A REGION, WE'RE CAN'T MAKE PROGRESS IF WE KEEP LEAVING SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND.

LIKE BILL TALKED ABOUT, HOW DO WE INVEST IN THESE PLACES DIFFERENTLY?

HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT WHERE OUR DOLLARS GO IF WE DON'T FIX PLACES LIKE THE NORMANDY SCHOOL DISTRICT, GEOGRAPHY, AND WE PICKED THAT GEOGRAPHY BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE KIDS ARE AND THE TAX BASE IS.

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE REGION IF WE DON'T FIX PLACES LIKE THAT?

DO WE KEEP MOVING FURTHER WEST AND KEEP ABANDONING PLACES?

THAT'S NOT A STRATEGY FOR SUCCESS.

WE THINK ONCE AND FOR ALL, CAN WE INVEST IN THE PLACES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN INVESTED IN IN SO MANY YEARS.

IF WE DON'T, WE FEAR AS A REGION, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE.

>> CHRIS, I KNOW YOU WERE DOING FORECLOSURE INTERVENTIONS LONG AGO.

NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S ALL THIS PANDEMIC MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE POSSIBLY FACING FORECLOSURE, WHICH MAKES ME WONDER, ARE YOU RECEIVING ANY OF THIS PANDEMIC MONEY AND ARE YOU, IN GENERAL ARE YOU RECEIVING ANY PANDEMIC MONEY AND SPECIFICALLY, IS IT HELPING IN THE FIGHT AGAINST FORECLOSURE?

>> YES, YES TO BOTH QUESTIONS.

TO DATE, I THINK WE'VE ALLOCATED CLOSE TO $2 MILLION IN RENT ASSISTANCE, UTILITY ASSISTANCE, AND MORTGAGE ASSISTANCE TO FOLKS IN THE ST. LOUIS REGION.

IT'S A REAL ISSUE.

WE ARE GETTING THE MONEY OUT.

IT IS HARDER THAN WE ASSUMED.

QUITE FRANKLY, WE STILL HAVE ABOUT A HALF MILLION DOLLARS LEFT FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE GEOGRAPHIC BOUNDARIES OF NORMANDY.

SO YEAH, THE MONEY IS GETTING OUT.

NOT AS QUICK AND WE'RE LIKE OTHER PARTS OF THE REGION, WE HAVE A LOT OF MONEY SITTING AROUND SLOSHING IN THE SYSTEM.

WE KEEP SAYING TO PEOPLE, YOU SHOULD NOT BE EVICTED OR GET FORECLOSED ON BECAUSE THERE'S MONEY AVAILABLE.

RAISE YOUR HAND, TALK TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND NONPROFIT MUCH LIKE BEYOND HAUTION AND WE'LL HELP YOU -- BEYOND HOUSING AND WE'LL TALK YOU THROUGH THE FEDERAL SYSTEM WHICH CAN BE CUMBERSOME.

>> WHO DO YOU GET YOUR MONEY FROM?

DO YOU TALK TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OR ARE YOU GETTING IT FROM THE FEDERAL?

>> NO, ST. LOUIS IS THE GOVERNMENT IS THE BIGGEST DRIVER OF THAT.

STATE OF MISSOURI, WE'VE GOTTEN FUNDS THERE AND ALSO SOLE FILL LAND TROSK DONORS.

>> THEY SAY IN MASSACHUSETTS, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO STREAMLINE THE APPLICATION FORM AND MAKE IT EASIER AND THEY GIVE IT TO THE LANDLORDS WHO WOULD HAVE A REAL FINANCIAL INTIFR TO FILL -- INCENTIVE TO FILL IT OUT.

THEN THE LANDLORDS JUST HAVE TO TAKE IT TO THE TENANT FOR A SIGNATURE.

IS THAT DONE HERE, AND IF NOT, WHY NOT?

>> THE STREAMLINING HAS NOT OCCURRED BECAUSE THE STATE HAS TO BLESS THAT AND THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN MISSOURI.

DO WE WORK WITH LANDLORDS?

YES, WE DO.

THE TENANT STILL HAS TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION AS TO THEIR COVID HARDSHIP.

THE LANDLORD CAN'T JUST CLAIM SOMEBODY HASN'T PAID ME.

IT HAS TO BE DOCUMENTATION THAT SOMETHING HAD.

IT HAS A DEGREE OF FLEXIBILITY, BUT THERE HAS TO BE DOCUMENTATION THAT YOUR LOSS OF INCOME WAS COVID-RELATED.

>> WELL, THE MISSOURI -- I THINK IT'S THE INDEPENDENT HAD A STORY ON THE MONIES NOT GETTING OUT OF THE SYSTEM.

THE COUNTY IS ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD, 71% OF THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE HAS DELIVERED.

>> RIGHT.

>> CITY OF ST. LOUIS, 57%, BUT THEN YOU GO TO THE STATE OF MISSOURI, FOR WHATEVER REASON, JUST 18% OF THE FEDERAL PANDEMIC RENTAL ASSISTANCE HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED AND SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE, WHILE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ALLOWS THOSE WHO ARE ADMINISTERING THIS PROGRAM TO TAKE UP TO 10% IN ADMINISTRATIVE FEES, THE STATE CAPPED ITS ADMINISTRATIVE CONS AT 2.5%.

SO THEY DON'T HAVE THAT MANY WORKERS.

IT DOES SEEM TO YOU THAT, BOY, IF THEY SPENT HAET MORE MONEY ON HIRING MORE WORKERS, IF IT POSSIBLE IN THIS ECONOMY, MAYBE WE COULD GET MORE OF THAT MONEY OUT?

GHIE THINK IT'S A PRETTY EASY YES, CHARLIE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THEY HAD MORE BODIES TO HELP MOVE THE PAPER ALONG.

>> ARE YOU LOOKING AT THIS TOO?

>> YES, AGAIN, THE STATE APPS PARTNER AND WE WORK WITH THEM ON A WHOLE LOT OF DELIVERY SYSTEMS, BUT CLEARLY, AGAIN, THE FOLKS THERE ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN WITH THE LIMITED RESOURCES THAT THEY HAVE.

>> HOW ABOUT REFUGEES COMING TO TOWN?

I KNOW THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY YOUR PURVIEW, BUT I'LL TOLD WHILE A TRICKLE HAS COME IN HOW, HUNDREDS MORE WILL BE ARRIVING IN ST. LOUIS AND ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO BE QUITE WELCOMING, BUT THE PROBLEM IS HOUSING.

>> YUP.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> WELL LOOK, WE HAVE A WONDERFUL AFFORDABLE HOUSING STOCK, BUT IF THEY'RE COMING IN AS FUNELS, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED -- AS REFUGEES, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED A BIG SUBSIDY.

HOW ARE THEY GOING TO PAY ANYTHING WHEN THEY JUST SHOWED UP IN THE COUNTRY WITH THE CLOTHES ON THEIR BACK.

WE SHOULD WELCOME THEM AND THEY DO A GREAT JOB OF PROVIDING AN ARRAY OF SERVICES, BUT AS A REGION, WE HAVE TO PRIORITIZE WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR LONG-TERM SUCCESS AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S NOT SIMPLY TO SAY WE'VE GREAT INSTITUTIONS.

WE HAVE FOREST PARK AND THE ZOO AND THE ART MUSEUM, ALL FINE THINGS THAT WE NEED AS A REGION AND OUR HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS AS WELL.

BUT WE HAVE TO INVEST IN THE HUMANITY THAT LIVES HERE THAT ARE STILL SUFFERING AND STRUGGLING AND IT'S NOT THAT COMPLICATED FIGURE OUT, WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD HOUSING, REHAB HOUSING, AND DO SERVICE DELIVERY.

AS A REGION, WE DO NOT HAVE THE COLLECTIVE COURAGE TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO BIG.

WE'RE GOING TO SWING THE CENSUS TO FIX THE PLACES THAT ARE STRUGGLING AND THE FAMILIES WHO LIVE THERE.

IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

IF WE HELP THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING THE MOST, PUT THEM IN THE ECONOMY AND HELP THEM PUT DOLLARS IN THEIR OWN POCKETS AND IT GOES BACK INTO THE BROADER ECONOMY, WE AS A REGION WIN AND WE HAVE NOT HAD THE COLLECTIVE COURAGE TO DO THAT, LET'S SWING FOR THE CENSUS AND ONE TIME, ONCE AND FOR, STOP SPRINKLING MONEY AROUND, DOING THINGS IN THESE HALF MEASURES AND THEN BEMOAN, OH, WOE IS US, WHY AREN'T THINGS GETTING BETTER HERE.

>> EDUCATION IS SUCH A BIG PART OF COMMUNITY AND YOU'RE IN THE NORMANDY SCHOOL DISTRICT WHERE YOU'RE DOING MOST OF YOUR WORK AND, OF COURSE, THE NORMANDY SCHOOL DISTRICT IS ONE OF THE MOST TROUBLED DISTRICTS IN THE REGION, IN THE STATE.

DO YOU WORK DIRECTLY WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH EDUCATION?

WHAT ARE YOU -- >> YES, WE HAVE 12 STAFF PEOPLE EMBEDDED IN THE SCHOOLS.

THEY DON'T DO ANY OF THE PEDAGOGY OF TEACHING AND LEARNING, BUT THEY TALK TO KIDS AND FAMILIES ABOUT WHAT'S INHIBITING THEM FROM FULLY ACCESSING WHAT NORMANDY HAS TO OFFER.

KIDS ARE HUNGRY, KIDS NEED CLEAN CLOTHES, KIDS NEED SCHOOL SUPPLIES, PARENTS NEED RENT ASSISTANCE, UTILITY ASSISTANCE.

95% OF THE KIDS WHO GO TO NORMANDY RECEIVER FREE AND REDUCED LUNCH.

ACTUALLY T 100% DO, BUT 95% ARE ELIGIBLE.

THAT MEANS ALMOST EVERY FAMILY WHO GOES TO SCHOOL HAS THE WEIGHT OF POVERTY ON THEIR SHOULDERS, SO EVEN IF NORMANDY HAD THE BEST TEACHERS KNOWN TO MAN AND THE BEST ADMINISTRATORS AND THE BEST CLIRICK LARK THE FAMILIES ARE STILL GOING -- CURRICULA, THE FAMILIES ARE STILL GOING TO STRUGGLE.

WE NEED TO SAY, LET'S INVEST IN FAMILIES AND CHALLENGES THAT THEY HAVE.

BECAUSE IF THE FAMILIES KEEP MOVING, IF THE FAMILIES HAVE ALL THESE STRUGGLES, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE SUCCESSFUL FROM AN ACADEMIC STANDPOINT.

ALL OF OUR KIDS WENT TO THE SAME SCHOOL DISTRICT, RIGHT?

WE KNOW THE TURNOVER OUT OF OUR KIDS' SCHOOLS WAS RELATIVELY SMALL.

THE ANNUAL TURNOVER RATE OR MOBILITY RATE IN NORMANDY FOR THE LAST PROBABLY DECADE, MEANING THE CHURNING OF KIDS FROM THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL TO THE LAST DAY OF SCHOOLS AROUND 40%.

>> WOW.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, GERNG TEACHING AND LEARNING, RIGHT?

TEACHER LOOKS UP AT THE CLASS, HEY, KIDS, REMEMBER WHEN WE -- AND THEY GO, NO, WE DIDN'T, BECAUSE 40% OF YOU WEREN'T HERE.

AGAIN, HOW DO WE STOP THAT TRANSITORY NATURE, WHICH IS POVERTY.

HOW DO WE INVEST IN HOUSING STABILITY, INVEST IN FAMILY STABILITY.

IF WE CAN DO THAT, GUESS WHAT?

FEWER KIDS MOVE, MORE STABILITY IN THE HOUSEHOLD, MORE STABILITY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, MORE STABILITY IN THE CLASSROOM, MORE STABILITY IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THEN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS A LEGITIMATE CHANCE TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> YEAH, BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT PHYSICAL PLANT IS A HUGE ISSUE, TOO?

LAST SPRING, I DID GET A TOUR OF THE NORMANDY HIGH SCHOOL, WHICH FROM THE ROAD LOOKS PRETTY GOOD, THE IMPRESSIVE GATES AND EVERYTHING, BUT INSIDE, YOU GO INTO THE LOCKER ROOMS FOR THE ATHLETIC FACILITIES AND THEY'RE REALLY ANTIQUATED, AND THEN YOU GO INTO THE AUDITORIUM WHERE I THINK LIKE HALF OF THE SEATS, CHRIS, WERE INOPERABLE.

THEY WERE BROKEN AND SO THERE WAS RIBBONS ON THEM, YOU CAN'T SIT HERE.

THERE WAS MOLD IN A LOT OF CLASSROOMS AND THE BASEMENT, SO THE CLASSROOMS WERE -- IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK PEOPLE GET THE DRIFT.

IT WAS REALLY SUBSTANDARD, AND SO IF I WAS A STUDENT THERE, I WOULD TRY AND GET OUT.

>> SURE.

>> BECAUSE ESPECIALLY IMAGINE BEING ON THE ATHLETIC TEAMS, AND IF YOU BY CHANCE HAVE A WRESTLE MEET AT KIRKWOOD OR CLAYTON OR BURROWS, CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE BECAUSE THE STARK CONTRAST IS PRETTY APPALL GHOOG IF MOST OF OUR VIEWERS COULD SEE WHAT NORMANDY HIGH SCHOOL LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW, THEY WOULD BE SHOCKED.

THEY WOULD THINK IT WAS ANOTHER COUNTRY.

>> AGREE, ONE OF THE MANY INEQUITIES THAT THIS REGION HAS TO FACE.

THEY DID PASS A BOND ISSUE, WORK IS BEING DONE ON THE HIGH SCHOOL AS WE SPEAK.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO CORRECT ALL THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT BETTER.

$23 MILLION BOND ISSUE, SO AGAIN, A LOT OF INVESTMENT BEING MADE.

MORE NEEDS TO BE MADE.

THIS IDEA OF WHAT'S EQUITABLE AND THE SAME EXPECTATIONS FOR KID WHO GO TO NORMANDY VERSUS KIDS WHO GO TO CLAYTON, TO ME, DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE.

YES, WE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME EXPECTATIONS, BUT IF THE RESOURCE GAP IS SO DRAMATIC AND SOMEHOW WE'RE SHOCKED THAT KIDS DON'T DO WELL IN NORMANDY.

WELL, GUESS WHAT?

IF WE LEVELED OUT THE RESOURCE DELIVERY AND MADE SURE WE WERE INVESTING IN THOSE FAMILIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS, THE KIDS WILL DO BETTER.

GUESS WHAT?

KIDS CAN LEARN IF YOU GIVE THEM THE RIGHT CONTEXT AND HOME ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENT IN THE SCHOOL BUILDING, THEY CAN LEARN, DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY'RE FROM NORMANDY, CLAYTON, OR WHEREVER.

AS A REGION, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO INVEST IN COMMUNITIES IN PLACE.

RIGHT NOW WE FUND PUBLIC EDUCATION BY PROPERTY VALUE.

COULD IT BE ANY MORE INEQUITABLE THAN THAT?

IF YOU WANT TO GET DOWN TO BRASS TACKS, HOW WE FUND PUBLIC EDUCATION IS RIDICULOUS.

AGAIN, WE'RE PUTTING THE KIDS IN NORMANDY BEHIND SO MANY OTHER KIDS FROM THE REGION FROM THE FIRST DAY THEY ENTER SCHOOL AND HOW WE'RE AMAZED THAT THEY DON'T DO AS WELL.

AGAIN, LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE'RE INVESTING, ONCE AND FOR ALL AS A REGION, CAN WE SAY WE'RE GOING TO GET AFTER THESE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS.

>> CHRIS, HOW DID YOU GET INTO THIS WORK?

YOU'VE BEEN RUNNING YOUR ORGANIZATION FOR 28 YEARS.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> WHAT LED YOU TO DO THIS AND HOW DO YOU CONTINUE PUSHING THE BOULDER UP THE HILL?

>> SO MY DAD WAS AN ENGINEER AT McDONNELL DOUGLAS AND BOEING.

MY OLDER BROTHER ALSO AN ENGINEER, AND THAT GENE KIND OF FLEW RIGHT PAST ME.

I TELL PEOPLE MY JOB AS A KID WAS TO HOLD THE OTHER END OF STUFF FOR MY DAD AND GET HIM A BEER, RIGHT?

SO WHEN IT CAME TIME TO GO TO SCHOOL, I SOMEHOW GOT INTO WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.

I THINK THEY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION WHEN I APPLIED AND GOT MY DEGREE IN URBAN STUDIES, WHICH MY DAD I THINK ASKED ME, WHAT THE HELL IS THAT, WHAT KIND OF JOB ARE YOU GOING TO GET?

WITH THAT JOB, I GOT OUT OF SCHOOL, COULDN'T FIND A JOB, MY DAD SAID I TOLD YOU SO.

WAITED TABLES FOR A LITTLE BIT AND THEN GOT A JOB AT THE HOUSING AUTHORITY OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

WORKED THERE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND CUT MY TEETH ON UNDERSTANDING HOW PEOPLE STRUGGLE, AND HOW TO DO HOUSING DEVELOP THE AND IN 1993, I GOT THIS JOB.

AGAIN, I FOOLED THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS BACK THEN THAT I KNEW WHAT THE HECK I WAS DOING AND THEY TOOK A CHANCE ON ME AND IT'S BEEN A GREAT RUN.

I STILL LOVE GOING TO WORK EVERY DAY.

I'M BLESSED TO HAVE A JOB WHERE I KNOW WE MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND I'M STILL HUNGRY TO DO MORE.

>> IN THOSE LAST 30 YEARS, YOU'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE GREATER ST. LOUIS AREA THE USE OF TAX ABATEMENT AND TAX INCREMENT FINANCING, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOLS, WHICH ARE REALLY DESIGNED ORIGINALLY FOR BLIGHTED AREAS.

BUT THEY'VE BEEN USED IN MANY PLACES THAT WERE CLEARLY NOT BLIGHTED.

SOME OF OUR MOST AFFLUENT COMMUNITIES.

IF YOU COULD WAVE A WAND AND CHANGE THINGS, I MEAN, DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE THAT THOSE TOOLS SHOULD BE USED IN PLACES LIKE THE NORMANDY SCHOOL DISTRICT OR NORTH ST. LOUIS, PARTS OF LEMAY, WHEREVER THE CASE IS, AND NOT SOME OF OUR CITIES LIKE CLAYTON, DES PERES, AND OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY'VE BEEN USED?

>> LOOK, THE INTENT OF THE WRITTEN LEGISLATION WAS NOT TO BLIGHT DOWNTOWN CLAYTON.

SO THE FACT THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY WROTE A REPORT THAT, YES, DOWNTOWN CLAYTON IS BLIGHTED IS RIDICULOUS AND IT'S NOT THE INTENT.

IS THIS A GOOD USE OF TAX DOLLARS?

OBVIOUSLY NOT.

SO YEAH, AGAIN, THIS INEQUITY OF OPPORTUNITY AND INEQUITY OF RESOURCES NEEDS TO BE TACKLED FROM A PUBLIC SECTOR STANDPOI, FROM A PHILANTHROPIC STANDPOINT AND QUITE FRANKLY FROM A COURAGE STANDPOINT.

ARE WE GOING TO SAY, WE CAN TACKLE THESE PROBLEMS.

NOT SIMPLE, NOT EASY, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN ONE ELECTION CYCLE, BUT IT SURE AS HECK IS THOT GOING TO BE CHANGED BY THE WAY WE'RE DOING IT NOW, SPRINKLING MONEY EVERYWHERE, BEMOANING THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE AND NOT BEING COURAGEOUS TO SAY WE NEED TO INVEST BIG AND DO THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

>> HAVE YOU NOTICED ALSO THAT PARTS OF THAT AREA, WELL STUN IN PARTICULAR -- WELLSTON IN PARTICULAR, NORTH AVENUE, HAVE BECOME DUMPING GROUNDS.

THEY WERE CLEANED UP BY VARIOUS GROUPS, VOLUNTEERS AND EVEN PARTS OF THE COUNTY, BUT I'VE SEEN PARTS OF NORTH COUNTY THAT BASICALLY IF YOU WERE WALKING TO SCHOOL AS A KID, IT WOULD GIVE YOU A TERRIBLE FEELING ABOUT YOUR LIFE TO BE WALKING BY ALL THE GARBAGE THAT'S BEEN DUMPED IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> YEAH, AGAIN, IT'S JUST UNACCEPTABLE AND, AGAIN, IT'S THE INEQUITIES OF OUR REGION AND THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, RIGHT?

WHY WAS THAT ALLOWED TO CONTINUE IN WELLSTON FOR SO LONG?

JUST MAKES KNOW -- MAKES NO SENSE.

I WAS PART OF AT LEAST FOUR OR FIVE CHECKUPS OF NORTH AVENUE, AND I KEPT ASKING, YOU KNOW WHEN WE'RE DONE, IT WILL JUST COME BACK BECAUSE WE'VE NOT DONE ANYTHING TO FIX THE BIGGER PROBLEM.

NOW IT'S FIXED AND BETTER, BUT WE DO SO MANY THINGS IN THAT REGION THAT OUR LANGUAGE IS TRANSACTIONAL.

WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT KNOCKING A FEW BUILDINGS DOWN, NOT A GOOD THING TO DO, BUT WE NEVER SAY WHOOPS NEXT?

WE DO -- WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

SO WE DO A CLEANUP, BUT WE NEVER SAY WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

WE GET THIS GREAT SATISFACTION ABOUT -- EVEN GIVING MEALS OUT.

WE SHOULD GIVE MEALS OUT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HUNGRY, BUT SHOULDN'T WE SAY, I WONDER WHY THEY'RE HUNGRY AND THEY CAN'T BUY FOOD THEMSELVES?

WHY DON'T WE FIX THAT PROBLEM WHILE WE'RE GIVING THEM THE FOOD, BUT WE DON'T DO THAT.

WE TAKE GREAT SATISFACTION, OH, WE GAVE FOOD OUT TODAY.

AGAIN, IMPORTANT TO HELP FOLKS WHO ARE STRUGGLING AND SUFFERING, BUT WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS GET TO THE ROOT CAUSE OF IT AND INVEST DOLLARS IN THAT.

IT'S THE OLD ADAGE, GIVE A MAN A FISH TEACHER HIM HOW TO FIX.

MY IDEA IS LET'S BUILD A CANNERY, EXTRAPOLATE EVEN FURTHER.

IF WE INVEST IN PEOPLE -- IT'S FOR FUN TO BE POOR.

IT'S NO FUN STRUGGLING EVERY DAY.

LET'S CREATE SYSTEMS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE AND ALLOW THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

THEY HAVE TO WORK HARD, BE COMMITTED, DO THEIR PART, BUT LET'S CREATE SYSTEMS THAT ALLOW THEM TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> CHRIS, YOU TALK ABOUT INVERSING.

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR MONEY FOR INVEST?

YOU GET IT FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, INDIVIDUAL DONORS, GOVERNMENT MONEY?

>> ALL OF THOSE, BILL, FOUNDATIONS, EARNED INCOME.

AGAIN, IT TAKES THIS MULTI-FACETED REVENUE STREAM TO MAKE AN ORGANIZATION LIKE OURS WORK.

OUR ANNUAL BUDGET IS AROUND 18 MILLION, SO AGAIN, THAT'S A MIX OF, AGAIN, RENTAL INCOME, PHILANTHROPIC DOLLARS, PUBLIC DOLLARS AND EARNED INCOME.

WITHOUT THAT MULTI-FACETED REVENUE STREAM, IT'S HARD TO DO THIS KIND OF WORK.

>> I'VE HEARD AND I THINK I'VE EVEN WRITTEN IT'S HARDER TO RAISE MONEY IN A BRANCH OFFICE TOWN LIKE ST. LOUIS HAS BEEN BECOME, LIKE SO MANY CITIES THAT HAVE HAD COMPANIES SELL OUT TO OTHER COMPANIES AND THE HEADQUARTERS ARE NO LONGER HERE.

LIKE THE BREWERY, FOR INSTANCE.

>> YEAH.

>> OR RALSTON PURINA, THAT IT'S HARDER -- >> HALF A MINUTE.

>> PARDON ME?

>> HALF A MINUTE.

>> IT'S HARDER TO RAISE MONEY NOW.

IS IT?

>> IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO HAVE THE CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS HERE WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF MAKING DECISIONS ARE HERE IN YOUR COMMUNITY, BUT WE STILL GET GREAT SUPPORT FROM THE BOEINGS AND MANY OTHER FOLKS WHO AGAIN -- THEIR CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS HAVE LEFT, BUT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE THEM IN TOWN.

>> THANK YOU.

SORRY FOR INTERRUPT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THIS HALF HOUR HAS ALREADY GONE BY.

CHRIS KREHMEYER, BEYOND HOUSING, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

FOLKS, IF THE SPIRIT MOVES YOU, HOPE YOU CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO BEYOND HOUSING AND KEEP THAT GREAT WORK GOING FOR ANOTHER 28 YEARS.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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