Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson foundation and the members of nine PBS well thank you for joining us for another edition of Donnybrook great to have you with us lots of topics so let's jump right into it shall we let's first meet the panelists starting with Wendy Wiese from KTRS 550 of the Jennifer and Wendy Show.

From Euclid Media where she's the editor the top uh Poobah, Chief cooking bottle washer ladies and gentlemen Sarah Fenske sitting in for Bill McClellan who's taking the week off.

Ray Hartman from KTRS, rawstory.com and the Riverfront Times and from the St Louis American Alvin Reed.

Wendy we're going to start with you uh what can we say about Catherine Pinner she won the primary race on the Republican side for St Louis County Executive in St Louis County and uh she then dropped out she got back in and after last week's program maybe she heard us or watched us she dropped out once again I think at this point she needs a little more compassion than criticism maybe the question for us is who should be on the ballot for the Republicans.

Well a little birdie who apparently is also a by explained to us earlier that Shamed Dogan is now actually available and legal um I've thought he should have I mean I thought he should have been the winner all along frankly so that that would uh that would that would work for me but as long as her name has been removed from the ballot which was the the word that we received last Friday that she was in court asking that her name be removed officially from the ballot and I agree with you we have to remember that she is a human being and that while this has been kind of a wild ride we need to be compassionate with this woman who may or may not have a few things to work out well don't we all don't we all yeah you made shopping like marijuana he's you know available I mean it's it's it's rare in politics that you kind of get a do-over yeah and I think he should go for it because at least he could now say fellow Republicans you know you need to get out here and vote for me just like you would have if you had known who you were voting for the first time and just see how many votes you get.

I think he'd be a great candidate and I know a lot of journalists feel this way about this guy because when you talk to him he's so smart and he's reasonable I think the big problem he has going for him is anybody in the party brass who is annoyed about any of the positions he's taken he's been anti-Trump he hasn't always been in line with that wing of the party they now have the excuse to say hey he was on the ballot the voters chose the other guy that's going to be a tough hill for him to overcome and we don't know what their process is to your point I mean who's making this call if they were making it you know Mark Montavani's name has also been surfaced even though he's a Democrat and he could easily make the case that he that this should be because I I would make it that this should be nonpartisan so it really doesn't need to be and Shamed Dogan to me I said all along I thought he was totally qualified and would be a good kind of executive and I I still feel that way but so either one of them would be good candidates but to Sarah's point to Sarah's points to Sarah's point though if this if the county Republican party which is kind of analogous to the Democrats out state which means they're not used to winning if they if they stay within the framework of typical Republican politics and let this be about whether you're for MAGA or not they're just going to get them I think you're right on that but what about Jane Duker you know most people don't remember this but it was just three weeks ago whenever she uh she actually did get more votes than Catherine Pinner or Sean mcdogan yeah but why would the Republican would I think mantovani would actually work for some Republicans I think he would too and he's going to by word on the street is he's going to get a lot of write in votes oh he will for sure Sarah um as the Great Poobah that you are, I really want this title to stick.

She's my boss's boss.

Executive editor at Euclid media and uh you know a lot about journalism you know where the bones are buried all that and more well let me ask you this though as Eric Schmidt the attorney general and U.S Senate candidate the Republican running for office seems to get his name in the newspaper a lot, I think it's all by design, I'm not sure he cares about this but the latest thing he's doing he's using the Sunshine Law to go after professors at the University of Missouri Columbia who happen to work on the school newspaper and as state employees they're subject to the Sunshine Law and now there's outrage like the St Louis Post-Dispatch editorial page and others outrage that they're going after the professors or the journalists and it seems to me that journalists like the Sunshine Law unless it's used against them what's your take.

Well I mean we do really like the Sunshine Law because we're into transparency in government.

I don't know how going after a journalism professor's emails plays into transparency in governments.

I don't know that journalists are being hypocritical on this I will say when I was at St Louis Public Radio my most recent job we were employees of the University of Missouri because the station is part of that umbrella and we were told yes people could try to Sunshine Law any of your emails be careful what you put into emails it was always known there was that threat and the idea was that we would certainly fight it if it happened but a case could attempt to be made I think Schmidt is making the case here well because these fact-checking sites these are very unpopular with Republicans they feel that it's the imprimatur of trying to claim your nonpartisan when you're really partisan that's what he's going after here to what it to what public purpose?

He's the Attorney General I know he doesn't believe this of all of the people not just the ones who voted for them or not just one party to what what purpose is our state's top law enforcement office officer going after a newspaper what for what purpose well you know you might ask the same question of the DNC the Democratic National Committee which just filed 89 Sunshine requests against Senator Josh Hawley obviously Sunshine Law is being used as a tool to get information about people and Ray you just buy it if you can't say if Tony Messenger uses Sunshine Law well that's noble but if Eric Schmidt uses it oh it's malevolent.

respect here what about-ism this I'll repeat the question this is the states any citizen can can file a sunshine including Eric Schmidt as a citizen the question is why is he as our state attorney general, all the lawsuits he does and by the way if he's so interested in sunshine law maybe he'd like to comply to the requests that Mark Petroli had, you know what and Eli Gross, there's going to be a level of fairness at the at the at the state level in in terms of journalism?

It is not the role of the Attorney General to to fight a political war with a newspaper a state because it's the Columbia Missourian, the point is if he's so interested in this he might want to release his information about how how involved he was with the Republican Association of Governors when he was a republican attorney general's Association excuse me that uh in their involvement of bringing people to Washington with a robocall in January 5th he doesn't seem to want to answer any of those questions on on that and my point is.

I think I think Sarah had a good point though when she said that politifacts is not popular neither are journalists approval is like eight percent that's kind of where I was going right this is completely and totally about him getting his name right right right and right there is a certain respect that I think you better have for your Flagship State University in anybody's State and hopefully there are people who are Ultra conservative who would get on the phone and tell him hey dude back off now if it's not happening that's too bad but like I say if there's no if there's no sense of this is you're getting a little out of cut control dude this is one of the ones you have to admit if journalism professors teach how to use the Sunshine Law because taxpayers write the paychecks for the public of servants and so they they should have a right to know what the public servants are doing the same should be true then of anybody including the attorney general that a lot of people don't like maybe, he has a right to know all right I mean I know Charlie actually argument to be made that these are not people who should be because I could I could make a sunshine request on every professor at Bob Jones University no no because that's a private school hey I've been from just on a public school okay and the only reason I'd be doing it is just to be doing.

it well right being on the media now now you're right and and the things it's a universe I understand that but this is this is.

what was the what was the professor's name Melissa was it Melissa Click she is the face the media is still in the minds of many many people well that's why isn't he suing the New York Times because he knows he that they got plenty of money to come at after him because I have one question.

do you think that the sources of the Columbian Missourian should be that that it uses is as a newspaper it's confidential sources should be revealed to the public, is that what you think is so that that well I'll answer this yes with a statement and that is um if you don't want to be subject to the Sunshine Law don't work for the government so basically you can't have it that's right that's right you can't have a newspaper you can't be protected newspaper as long as the taxpayers so you can't have a lab newspaper because otherwise I don't know exactly what a lab newspaper well the lab newspaper is the Columbia Missourian is a teaching newspaper and by your definition including a student newspaper that did that you can't have a tough life.

somebody have Coach Drake with email because I want every one of them yeah let's move on to Jessica Clark she is a member of The Rockwood school committee and she said some things that were disparaging and insulting to kids who are lgbtq uh as well as some disabled kids, and she used a term which I probably don't even want to repeat on PBS to describe some of her detractors, so the Rockwood school committee in its wisdom removed her from the wellness committee and I thought look her speech is disgusting and insulting and maybe the voters who put her in there can recall her but I don't think that government should be canceling her in any way and as a former member of the ACLU you agree with me don't you?

I do not and and there's such a misunderstanding I guess of course after your last run at the first amendment I don't know um but the um a misunderstanding the First Amendment the First Amendment does not guarantee us the right not to have consequences to our speech it guarantees us a right to make our, to speak it guarantees us the right not to be locked up for a speech and it's certainly in her case I would not be in favor of her getting kicked off the school board for her speech but but for her to have a consequence like to be taken off of a committee for her speech is perfectly well with it well within the first amendment and and the by if you don't accept that premise if you say well as it because it's the government the school board can't can't do anything ever to anyone regarding their speech basically I guess if she could say well I want to be on every committee you know I want to do every you know the bottom line is it's a minor thing and it's it's absolutely within the First Amendment to pay a price for yourself and within the authority of the school board absolutely, to pick the Committees that they're on sure.

I would say that why not they can do certain things but the government should not be punishing people for speech that is legal however offensive we find it it's not even punishment.

Nadine Strassen side, government should not be in the business of censuring legal speech.

Nadine strassen did not say that.

she's got a new book out and then she's.

This is an administerial function right somebody has to have the rules that govern this board that's like the one power they have over these members that are elected by the public and so they get to say who's on what committee what time they meet I don't see that as censuring at all.

well if they did that in the ordinary course of action that'd be okay but this was obviously in reaction to the speech which they found disfavorable.

at behest of parents who were whom they represent well the parents can probably recall this woman or they can vote in somebody else they'll probably recall them that was just they're not the government that's my whole point I don't like the government whether it's the school committee or the federal government punishing people for legal speach.

okay let's say I never you know said anything like really out of line before and I got elected to a school board somewhere or just right here and then I just went on some tirade it says like what we ought to do is arm the little black children and tell them the police mess with you take it into your own hands all right so now my school board said I hey you know what Alvin was duly elected so you know whatever or some other district, pop up and say like you know I I think everybody's okay except Jewish people right okay like well what can you do?

yeah they're actually there's a guy like that his name was Dapper O'Neill longtime member of the Boston city council and people just lived with them again someone's committee assignment is not anything it's not even there's not anything that's guaranteed it is not a committee assignment is not in the zip code of the First Amendment I think actually a committee assignment for a member of the school board is part and parcel of the job description but it's not you so it's all right we need to disagree on this one it's all right let's move on to a story in Pro Publica Alvin Reed about the private security force that is working in the Central West End, maybe other neighborhoods, I think like many others how many other neighbors yes they're in the Grove they are in Soulard many other neighborhoods yeah so what happens here in the lengthy story written by Jeremy Kohler, there are off-duty St Louis police officers in uniform who are not only making more overtime in their positions on the security Force than they would for the SLMPD but they're also given rewards Alvin if they can solve a crime they get a thousand dollars and some people are saying well you know what that just means that wealthy neighborhoods have better security and Public Safety than the poorer ones what do you think well that was true before you came up with these private security uh firms you know um I cannot they would say if a police officer what they do with their time when they're not you know being a police officer uh I kind of can't argue with them as long as it does not detract from what they're doing I think off-duty police officers are supposed to carry their guns too is that correct I remember I I think you're supposed to not just like suggested you know the thousand dollars for solving crime I I don't have a problem with that either I do not think they should be in their police uniform I honestly don't.

I agree that's that's well indeed so they are in their police uniform and they are using the powers of being police they are not just showing up like dressed like security guards and acting like security guards and having to call in the real police they are doing pretty much everything they do as officers except they're paid by private neighborhoods it's a huge problem that at this point like for City residents If You're expecting basic city services you have to form one of these special taxing districts, hire police officers pay them on top of what you already pay to have police officers in the city and then they come in and act exactly like they would do except they're not under the control of the city police department it is a strange situation and there's a reason that the national experts brought in on this Pro Publica story said they have never seen anything like that and if God forbid because we know that private security is nothing new in in wealthier neighborhoods but if one of if one of them were worst shot or killed then what?

I think the liability would be on the city because they're there in their City uniform using their City weapon functioning as a city officer it's a it's a really mixed up system and I think this story did a great job of identifying what's broken about it this was a great story by Jeremy Kohler it really was at Pro Publica and and to me it's real simple part of this is real simple and that is we haven't talked about the poor neighborhoods that have the highest crime rates that are left behind in this scenario, it to me with the real simple line is if you're going to work for the St Louis police department whether it's on your regular time or overtime and you're going to wear that badge and you're going to wear that uniform you report to the St Louis Police Department, full stop.

If if private security wants to exist at hire non-st Louis police officers because keep in mind when they when they they we have a problem in St Louis we mean the people of St Louis and it's all of our problem hiring, getting people police officers to work overtime in the highest crime neighborhoods and one of the reasons is these private security companies are out bidding our St Louis Public police departments that is unacceptable.

Do you mind if I jump in here?

Unacceptable.

Here's what I think uh the story missed and that is yeah it's true that the policing in some of these neighborhoods is not as good as it could be well we got a mayor who as soon as she got into office she stopped 98 jobs, she cut 98 jobs that weren't filled and she got four million dollars from the overtime, Ray, and that's and and she thinks that we have enough police officers right so that aspect of the story I think should have been addressed because if Walnut Park East or Walnut Park West wants more police officers, better vote for somebody who wants more police officers.

wait one that didn't that 4 million get matched by some other money so that money got put back into the that thanks to Louis and so like all right I'm gonna put a million dollars in a fund and to get piece of this money I'll double what you're paying getting paid down there but you gotta work Walnut Park and you got to work Baden, and you got to work up there all right then we would see would you have a problem with that?

Well I think that'd be a great thing take some of that Stan Kronke money or a federal money give it to the police officers and why not?

no no I mean I'm talking about off duty okay I ain't giving it to the police, I'm giving it to the security police.

right well you know what if it saves lives I'll be in favor I would too but you can't you can't I think we're considering things we've never considered before because people in neighborhoods whether they're wealthy or not wealthy are terrified I think Wendy's right and Ray if you didn't have this private security Force you wouldn't have Portland Place, you wouldn't have a wealthy section you drive through there that's all you see are the private police officers.

Charlie Charlie the idea they would move out.

Charlie the idea of ap police department writ large or our police department whether it's in the county or the city is to provide Police Services to all of our citizens and the idea that wealthier citizens can have private security is fine the idea that privates that well private interests that can hire officers.

You have any problems with Cori Bush having a private security team?

Of course not think so.

Okay let's move on Alvin Reed I want to ask you about um because there's a different Security Forces for some people well I think all of our Congress members thank you.

It's a primary day on Tuesday the 13th and the number of voting locations in the city has gone from 70 to 15. it's done locally, if this was done by Mike Parson the governor of the state or the Republican General Assembly wouldn't there be riots in the streets right now I don't think so because this is because for the number of people who they're going to vote and it's a special primary election based on some cats going to jail, i mean I'm sorry turnout is not going to be large and I think you have a better chance of if you concentrate the places then rather than just have everything spread out spread out and then you if you've got you know two workers there all day are they going to be there and then that's 140 people and then the ballots all 11 of them in some places it reverts back to normal numbers in November.

The confusion the confusion this costs for the city is not worth whatever they're saving.

I'm a city voter they switched our polls last time around they are going to switch us back in November after this September thing that moves it again then they have to switch it around the next time because we're going down from 28 Wards to 14.

I am already so confused and I'm a high information voter, it's my job to pay attention for this stuff they are going to suppress turnout because even though this election is meaningless let's face it there's two candidates they're both going out they have to run against each other in November it's completely meaningless but what it's going to do is people who are determined to vote every time they're going to show up at their old polling place they're going to be told oh no this is not the right one you got to go to one of these and then they're going to flip it all the way around in November and then flip it around again next March, it's a catastrophe.

A leading weekly newspaper had a front page story telling people where to go you're getting out there more of us should be doing this provided a good service but the services shouldn't have to provide because there and again this funky election where you've got two, and I'm all for ranked choice don't misunderstand but when you happen to have an election where two candidates are on the ballot and oh by the way excuse me you have two candidates on the ballot and the outcome will be the top two go forward you know it's okay hold that thought you know we have one time for one more topic we'll go to you Sarah on this uh your publication the Riverfront Times broke the story yes that uh Panera is going to be the name of a lot of St Louis Bread companies in the St Louis region and uh apparently in the Twitter verse or elsewhere people are not too happy we almost broke the internet man I mean this was like a huge journalistic story and people are very upset about this a lot of people saying they gave up on St Louis Bread Co a long time ago it's no longer a St Louis company the quality is not there but the big problem is it used to be St Louis Bread Company throughout the St Louis metropolitan area that's no longer going to be the case in Saint Charles County in some of these other like parts of it's they're saying only in St Louis city and St Louis County are they going to keep that branding and even now a Panera has snuck in to Ballwin it's a true insult to St Louis and the name that we carry but the gift cards have said Panera since I think creation of gift cards it's true right so it turns out this is a cost-saving measure is what our our little sources tell us and they don't want to have to print two different things now can I correct you I think that Panera is based in two places Needham Mass and Sunset Hills Sunset Hills I know it's moving out to the it's moving out to 44 where Marits is right oh what flight right yeah and you know they're kind of closing their City locations left and right there's like three or four they've closed in the last half dozen years so yeah they still do have a corporate presence here but it's a sad day.

Hold all those thoughts because we have to find out what you had to say about last week's program.

We heard from Larry snowpeck of Alton who wrote the St Louis police department is understaffed underpaid overworked while mayor Jones claims the city has plenty of police.

Topping her list of priorities has been making funds available to the run the loop trolley and free cab rides to Illinois for any St Louis woman who wants an abortion.

You can write us care of Nine PBS 3655 Olive Street St Louis Missouri 63108 don't forget those emails donnybrook@ ninepbs.org and those tweets hashtag #donnybrookSTL.

we like the Nine line hope you do too at 314-512-9094 and don't forget to listen to us or watch us on your favorite podcast Source, oh that would be Apple, Spotify, Google Play and Tune One of us on September 6th turned another birthday, Alvin Reed.

I think is now eligible for Social Security I'm getting there I'm getting there yeah right we'd be living off this cake for the next six months the king of Kirkwood.

did you do anything special on your birthday and happy belated well I got back I went out to Lawrence for the football game this weekend and so uh yeah oh yes a very special one and and our Senators out there aren't like sequestering the journalism Department good point thank you thank you guys.

and that's this week's program thank you very much for joining us we'll see you next week at this time have a good one.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson foundation and the members of Nine PBS