>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

TENSIONS IN THE CITY OF SPRINGFIELD CONTINUE TO SIMMER.

ANOTHER WEEK, MORE BOMB THREATS, THERE HAVE BEEN ABOUT 40 SINCE LAST WEEK'S PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.

THE THREATS HAVE ALL THAT FALSE BUT THE EVACUATIONS CONTINUE.

GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS EMPLOYEE PATROL TROOPERS TO SPRINGFIELD TO HELP WITH SECURITY.

OF COURSE, THIS ALL FOLLOWS SENATOR JD VANCE IS AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMPS FALSE CLAIMS THAT HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN SPRINGFIELD WERE STEALING RESIDENTS PETS AND EATING THEM.

STILL NO EVIDENCE THAT IS HAPPENING.

ON SUNDAY, CHANCERY APPEARED ON CNN'S STATE OF THE UNION WITH GEN X.

HE REFUSED TO ADMIT THE RUMORS ARE BASELESS.

>> THE AMERICAN MEDIA TOTALLY IGNORED THIS STUFF UNTIL DONALD TRUMP AND I START TALKING ABOUT CAT MEMES.

>> IT WASN'T JUST A MEME.

>> IF I HAVE TO CREATE STORIES SO THAT THE AMERICAN MEDIA ACTUALLY PAYS ATTENTION TO THE SUFFERING OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THEN THAT IS WHAT I'M GOING TO DO, DANA, BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE COMPLETELY LETTING KAMALA HARRIS COAST.

>> TRUMP THIS WEEK SAYS HE PLANS TO VISIT SPRINGFIELD IN THE COMING WEEKS.

MIKE MILLER, REMEMBER THE DAYS WHEN WE DID NOT THINK OHIO IS GOING TO MATTER IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL RACE?

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THIS?

DO YOU THINK BY CONTINUING ON THIS NARRATIVE IT HELPS THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN?

>> I THINK IT IS OUT OF LEFT FIELD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK OF IT.

YOU HEAR IT, YOU SAY NO ONE COULD SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT UNLESS THERE WAS SOME VALIDITY TO IT.

AS NEAR AS I CAN TELL IN THE WEEK OR SO IT HAS GONE BY, THERE IS ZERO.

INSTEAD OF, SAY, WE MADE A MISTAKE, THIS AND THAT, AS YOU SAY, VANCE HAS DOUBLED DOWN AND THEN ON THE TV SHOW, THE WAY I TOOK IT IS, LOOK, IF I HAVE TO MAKE SOMETHING UP AND TELL PEOPLE IT IS TRUE IN ORDER TO CREATE AN ISSUE, I WILL DO IT.

IT IS SOMETHING I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IN POLITICS.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE GOT TO WAIT FOR VANCE, HE RETWEETED SOMETHING AND YOU CAN'T BACK DOWN IN THE TRUMP WORLD COME YOU CAN NEVER SAY YOU ARE WRONG.

DO YOU THINK THIS GOT AWAY FROM HIM?

>> I THINK THE EVIDENCE POINTS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

THERE IS REPORTING FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL THAT BEFORE JD VANCE MADE THESE PUBLIC COMMAS, SOMEONE FROM HIS STAFF WENT AND SPOKE TO THE CITY MANAGER AND SAID COME ON, IS THIS STUFF REAL?

WE ARE TOLD UNEQUIVOCALLY, NO.

THE CITY HAD LOOKED INTO THIS, THE CITY HAD RESPONDED TO WHAT WAS IN A LOCAL PANIC, THERE WAS A VERY CLEAR AND DELIBERATE CHOICE MADE TO MAKE THIS AN ISSUE FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

>> HERE IS A CLUE, WE HOW MANY HAVE BEEN OFFENDED BY JD VANCE AND TRUMP SPREADING FALSE REASON WHY THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO, IMMIGRATION, A STRONG ISSUE FOR THEM.

A NEW SCRIPPS IPSOS POLL THIS WEEK SHOWS THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, 54%, SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP'S PLAN TO DEPORT ALL UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

86% OF REPUBLICANS SUPPORT MASS DEPORTATION.

BUT 58% OF INDEPENDENTS SUPPORT MASS DEPORTATION.

25% OF DEMOCRATS SUPPORT MASS DEPORTATION.

IMMIGRATION IS A STRONG ISSUE , HERB, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE KEEPING ALIVE WITH THIS STORY, RIGHT?

>> BUT THEY ARE STEPPING ON THE STORY.

IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION, TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION, TALK ABOUT LEGAL, DOCUMENTED, UNDOCUMENTED, BUT HERE, THEY TURN THE STORY BACK ON THEM.

THEY ARE BASICALLY LYING.

THEY ARE REALLY QUITE VILE AND RACIST IN SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON SO I THINK IT ACTUALLY HURTS THEIR CAMPAIGN AND WHEN IN FACT THEY COULD BE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION IN A WAY THAT KATE --THEY COULD SOME PART OF AN ADVANTAGE I'D.

>> MIKE DeWINE, HE SENT A HALF MILLION DOLLARS TO SPRINGFIELD, TWO STATE TROOPERS.

HE DID NOT START DOING ANY OF THAT UNTIL AFTER LAST WEEK'S DEBATE.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

HE WENT DOWN THERE A COUPLE DAYS AFTER THE DEBATE AND STARTED PUTTING TROOPERS IN THE SCHOOL, BUT TO BE FAIR, THAT IS WHEN WE STARTED HEARING ALL THE THREATS COMING IN, THE SCHOOLS WERE CLOSING.

HOSPITAL ON LOCKDOWN.

BUT THERE IS ONE IMPORTANT THING I WANT TO SAY HERE.

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE CASE AGAINST THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO TO A PLACE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

RIGHT NOW, BEING IN SPRINGFIELD, MOST OF THOSE IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE THERE WERE BROUGHT IN LEGALLY , THEY DO HAVE PAPERWORK AND THEY ARE WORKING JOBS IN SPRINGFIELD.

ON PBS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, THEY INTERVIEWED ONE OF THE OWNERS OF A COMPANY IN SPRINGFIELD AND HE EMPLOYEES 15, 20 OF THESE GUYS, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY.

BUT HE SAID IF I COULD HIRE 30 MORE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS LIKE >> THAT IS WHAT GOVERNOR DeWINE WROTE IN AN OP-ED PIECE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES ON FRIDAY.

HE BASICALLY SAID THE STATIONS ARE HERE, HE HAS BEEN TOLD THEY ARE HARD-WORKING, HE HAS INTO HAITI 20 TIMES WITH HIS WIFE.

IS SOMETHING THAT IS CLOSE TO HIM.

AND HE KIND OF CALLED OUT VANCE AND TRUMP REALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME, IT IS VERY MILD.

SAID THAT VANCE AND TRUMP -- THAT IS AS STRONG AS THE GOVERNOR HAS GOTTEN.

>> I THINK GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRETTY UPFRONT.

I TAKE THAT A LITTLE STRONGER THAN YOU DID, MIKE.

HE JUST SAID IT IS NOT TRUE.

HE DOES HAVE TIES TO HAITI, HE AND HIS WIFE HAVE HAD A SINCE HIS DAUGHTER WAS TRAGICALLY KILLED IN AN ACCIDENT.

WHAT HERBS SAYS ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION ITSELF , AND JOE SAYS TO GO SOMEPLACE WHERE THEY ARE ILLEGAL , THEY ARE ALL OVER.

THIS IS A HUGE THING AND ALL REPUBLICANS WOULD DO IS SHOW WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND SO FORTH.

YOU CAN MAKE A HUGE ISSUE OUT OF IT.

IT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY.

AND MAKE UP HIS STORY, IT IS JUST BEYOND ME.

>> WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OTHER THINGS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION WHICH IS REALLY STRONG ASIDE FROM THE FALSE RUMORS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, IMMIGRATION IS STRONG FOR THEM AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

HOWEVER WE GOT HERE, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> I THINK THAT THE POLITICAL SYSTEM, THE MEDIA SYSTEM IS SORT OF PREDICATE ON THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY HONEST AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS JUST A PLAINLY DISHONEST CAMPAIGN.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT TO DO WITH IT OR HOW TO RESPOND TO THAT.

IS THE IDEA HERE THAT IF WE JUST KIND OF MAKE UP SOME TAWDRY RUMORS THAT EVERYONE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION WHICH IS OUR WINNING ISSUE?

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CASE IN HERE WE ARE DOING EXACTLY, IT SEEMS TO BE PLANNED BUT IS JUST IGNORING THIS POLITICAL EPISODE.

>> IS IT WISE FOR DONALD TRUMP TO COME TO SPRINGFIELD?

HE DOES NOT NEED TO COME TO OHIO TO WIN THE STATE IF THE POLLS ARE CORRECT WHICH WE ASSUME THEY ARE PROBABLY PRETTY ACCURATE.

I THINK YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY, FOLLOW THE GOVERNOR'S ADVICE, FOLLOW THE MAYOR'S ADVICE.

FOLLOW EVERYBODY'S ADVICE.

BUT IF HE SHOWS UP AND GOES INTO ONE TIRADES, IS GOING TO DO IS REMIND PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT YET MADE UP THEIR MIND WHICH AREN'T VERY MANY PEOPLE THAT HE IS A LITTLE OFF HIS ROCKER, THAT HE CAN BE A VERY VILE HUMAN BEING.

BACK IN 2018 I WAS LOOKING AT THE CLIPS, REMEMBER THE PHRASE HE HAD FOR HAITI AND FROM AFRICAN COUNTRIES, THESE WERE WHOLE NATIONS .

I AM THINKING, THIS IS JUST FEEDING INTO THIS SAME NARRATIVE.

WISE IF SO FOCUSED ON THIS?

BECAUSE THE HAITIANS ARE BLACK.

WHAT KIND OF IMMIGRANTS DOES HE WANT FROM NORWAY?

THAT IS GREAT.

AGAIN COME YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION.

HE HAS WEAKENED HIS CASE A LITTLE BY ENCOURAGING THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TO NOT PASS THAT BILL THAT THE SENATE SO HE IS A LITTLE BIT, NOT A LITTLE BIT, HE IS A TREMENDOUS IMMIGRANT.

>> DIVAC RAMASWAMY WAS IN SPRINGFIELD, HELD A RALLY OR SOME KIND OF AN.

I THINK THAT IS MORE ABOUT HIS POSITIONS IN OHIO THEN WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SPRINGFIELD, RIGHT?

>> PROBABLY SO.

BERNIE MARINA WAS IN SPRINGFIELD.

WE HAVE SEEN A PILGRIMAGE OF POLITICIANS TO SPRINGFIELD RECENTLY.

THE ONE THING WE HAVE NOT SEEN AND THE ONE THING THAT I KEEP LOOKING FOR IS, OKAY, TALK ABOUT DEPORTATION OF IMMIGRANTS , BUT HOW IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

WHAT IS THAT EXACT PLAN?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?

AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT FROM EITHER SIDE.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD QUESTION WE NEED TO BE ASKING.

>> IN THE ABSTRACT IT SEEMS TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

ANYWAY, IF THE CAMPAIGN DISCONTINUE AWAY FROM THAT SMALL CENTRAL OHIO CITY, POLLS SHOW KAMALA HARRIS EARNED A LOT OF GOODWILL FROM HER DEBATE PERFORMANCE BUT SHE AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP REMAIN LARGELY TIED BOTH IN NATIONAL POLLS AND IN JUST ABOUT ALL THE SWING STATE POLLS.

THESE ERAS IN OHIO ARE BEING WITH ADS FOR AND AGAINST.

I'M TALKING ABOUT PRESIDENTIAL RACE, THE CANDIDATES , HARRIS WON BUT IT REALLY HAS NOT TRANSLATED INTO MUCH MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> I JUST THINK THESE ARE SUCH KNOWN FIGURES.

ONE OF THEM, WHICH IS DONALD TRUMP, WE HAD FOUR YEARS WITH HIM, WE HAVE HAD A DECADE OF SATURATION IN THE MEDIA OF HIM, WHO IS THE PERSON WHO IS , DONALD TRUMP NEVER HEARD OF HIM, I WILL HAVE TO CHECK OUT HIS ISSUES PAGE.

IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE THAT PERSON EXISTING, KAMALA HARRIS IS A VICE PRESIDENT, SHE HAS RAN FOR PRESIDENT, SHE HAS BEEN A U.S.

SENATOR.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT HER BUT TO WHAT EXTENT, THERE IS CLEAR DAYLIGHT BETWEEN HER AND JOE BIDEN.

I DON'T KNOW, NOT ENOUGH THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE SOME HUGE SWINGS IN THE POLLS COMING UP.

>> SHE DID OPEN A SLIGHT LEAD IN PENNSYLVANIA ACCORDING TO A FEW POLLS, FOUR AND FIVE POINT, NEW YORK TIMES HAD HER UP BY FOUR OF FIVE.

IS THAT CAUSE OF CONCERN FOR REPUBLICANS IN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IF SHE STARTS TO PULL HAD INCOME SYLVANIA?

>> OBVIOUSLY IT IS A KEY STATE, TO ME IT IS ON A SMALL NUMBER.

IF SHE IS A MAJORITY OF THE STATES, I THINK SHE WINS.

WITHOUT QUESTION.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ACROSS- THE-BOARD.

I STILL THINK THE REPUBLICANS WILL TAKE THE SENATE AND PERHAPS THE HOUSE TOO.

BUT SHE IS A DIFFERENT THAN WHEN SHE RAN FOR PRESIDENT BEFORE.

WE HAVE HAD ON THIS SHOW, TALKS ABOUT WHEN SAM WAS HERE ABOUT TAKING HER OFF THE TICKET BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS SO DISSATISFIED WITH HER.

I'M TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRATS.

AND NOW WHEN IT GETS TO THE SITUATION, THERE IS NOBODY ELSE BUT AND I DON'T THINK SHE CAN GET OVER THAT.

MY OPINION BUT I DON'T THINK SHE WINS AS MUCH AS TRUMP LOSES.

BECAUSE OF THESE THINGS LIKE SPRINGFIELD, IS A CONCERN AND SHE HAS NOT MOVED AHEAD IN NATIONAL POLLS ARE THEN --SHE HAS MADE UP THE GAP.

BIDEN WAS BEHIND BY FIVE OR SIX, SHE HAS CLOSED THE GAP.

>> THAT IS ACTUALLY A REAL MOVEMENT AND THEN TO SEE SOME POLLS COMING FROM BATTLEGROUND STATES WHERE SHE IS UP BY LITTLE, SHE IS UP BY FOUR OR FIVE, THAT IS MOVEMENT.

THAT IS NOT MASSIVE MOVEMENT BUT WE KNOW THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE MADE UP THEIR MINDS.

THEY ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT HER BUT I THINK SHE IS NOW IN A POSITION TO ACTUALLY HAVE MULTIPLE PATHS TO GETTING TWO 270.

TRUMP NOW, THOSE PATHS AREN'T QUITE NARROWING THE SUM OF THE STATES HE COUNTED UPON.

NORTH CAROLINA, I DON'T KNOW HOW IS A CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR IN NORTH CAROLINA IS GOING TO IMPACT THE PRESIDENTIAL VOTE THERE BUT THAT GUY IS REPULSIVE.

IN ARIZONA , CARRY LIKE AS A SENATOR, SENATE CANDIDATE , I HATE TO BE SO GRAPHIC BUT SHE IS OFF THE CHARTS.

>> MOVING TO THE U.S. SENATE RACE, THE ADS, YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THEM.

I DON'T WANT A WHOLE LOT OF LIVE TV SO I AM WATCHING STUFF LIKE STREAMING SERVICES, THEY ARE THERE TOO.

I JUST CAN'T ESCAPE THEM.

>> YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THEM AND I AM SEEING A LOT OF DARK MONEY AS WHICH THOSE ARE TENDING TO FOCUS ON ISSUES INVOLVING TRANSGENDER PEOPLE AND THINGS THAT ARE REALLY KIND OF HOT BUTTON TALKING POINTS .

BUT NOT ISSUES THAT PEOPLE REALLY IDENTIFY AS IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THE ADS FROM SHERROD BROWN WE ARE SEEING, I THINK THEY ARE UNIQUE IN A WAY BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT REPUBLICANS WHO ARE OUT THERE IN THOSE ADS WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT VOTING FOR JARED BROWN.

I THINK THAT IS A STRATEGY TO TRY TO GO TO THE MIDDLE, GOODLY THE SAME LETTER HE HAS ALWAYS HAD BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF ADS >> WHY DO YOU THINK SO FAR, DOES IT SEEM LIKE SHERROD BROWN IS FOCUSING ON BERNIE MORENO'S BUSINESS RECORD AND HIS FIGHT AGAINST FENTANYL, THAT IS WHERE HE USES THE SHERIFF'S.

HE IS NOT TALKING MUCH ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

IS HE WAITING FOR THE END OF THE CAMPAIGN OR IS HE AVOIDING THE ISSUE?

>> I THINK HE IS WAITING.

HE WANTS TO SEE WHERE HE STANDS AND WHO ARE THE VOTERS WHO STILL MAY BE UP FOR GRABS AND IF HE DECIDES THAT THERE IS STILL SOME MORE WORK TO BE DONE WITH SUBURBAN REPUBLICAN LEANING WOMEN I THINK HE HAS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS HARDER AT THE END OF THE CAMPAIGN.

>> BERNIE MORENO IS FOCUSING ON --SHERROD BROWN IS TOO LIBERAL FOR OHIO, DO YOU THINK THAT IS WORKING?

>> FRANKLY, I THINK IT IS WORKING VERY WELL.

MEMBER, SENATOR BROWN HAS BEEN THERE WHAT, THREE TERMS OR SO?

HE HAS NEVER RUN WHEN TRUMP RAN.

THE TIMES TRUMP RAN HE TOOK OHIO BY EIGHT POINTS.

IF TRUMP TAKES OHIO BY EIGHT POINT IN THIS FORTHCOMING ELECTION, I THINK SENATOR BROWN >> THAT IS A LOT OF SWING VOTERS.

TICKET SPLIT THERE IF THAT HAPPENS.

>> LETTERS ARE WEIRD, THESE ARE WEIRD TIMES.

I DON'T KNOW, I WISH I COULD SEE THE FUTURE.

HIM AND JON TESTER AND JOE MANCHIN, THESE GUYS HAVE SEEMED TO MANAGE TO DEFY GRAVITY AND A WAY THAT INCOMING DEMOCRATS CANNOT.

I THINK THERE IS THIS AN WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE THAT A NEW FIXTURE LIKE TIM RYAN CAN BE THE BLUE DEMOCRAT IN THE RED STATE BUT I THINK THESE ESTABLISHED BRANDS JUST SEEM TO MANAGE TO KEEP THEIR FOOTHOLD BETTER.

>> WE WILL SEE ABOUT JON TESTER, THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH ONE UP THERE IN MONTANA.

WE NOW KNOW WHAT VOTERS WILL READ FOR ISSUE ONE ON THIS FILE'S BALLOT.

THE REDISTRICTING COMMITMENT IS LARGELY THE SAME AS A CONTROVERSIAL LANGUAGE IT APPROVED LAST MONTH.

THE SUPREME COURT ORDERED SOME CHANGES BUT THE LOADED LANGUAGE REMAINS.

THE AMENDMENT WILL PUT THE PROCESS IN THE HANDS OF AN REQUIRED TO GERRYMANDER DISTRICTS.

THAT LANGUAGE IS BIASED AND VIOLATES STATE LAW, BUT THE SUPREME COURT DISAGREED.

AND IN A POSSIBLE FIRST, A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN IN OHIO IS USING MICHIGAN FOOTBALL TO MAKE ITS CASE.

SUPPORTERS OF REDISTRICTING REFORM ARE OUT WITH THEIR FIRST AD, IT FEATURES FORMER MICHIGAN COACH JIM HARBAUGH, WHO IS OF COURSE ACCUSED OF BEATING OHIO STATE THREE TIMES AND WINNING A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP BY CHEATING.

THE ADDISON STATE LAWMAKERS, LIKE COACH HARBAUGH, HAVE BEEN CHEATING.

RIGGING ELECTIONS THROUGH GERRYMANDER AND MAPS.

WE WILL GET TO COACH HARBAUGH AND HAVE A MOMENT BUT THE BALLOT LANGUAGE, WAS THERE ANY SURPRISE THE REPUBLICAN SUPREME COURT DID NOT ORDER MAJOR CHANGES TO THE LANGUAGE?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF SURPRISE.

JUST A COUPLE LITTLE THINGS THEY TINKERED WITH BUT IN THE BALLOT BOARD MEETING, THE DEMOCRATS WHO WERE OUTNUMBERED ON THE BALLOT BOARD WERE TRYING TICKET ITEMS.

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IF YOU READ THAT SUMMARY YOU HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT TAKE AWAY AND IF YOU READ THE AMENDMENT.

SO NOW THEY ARE HAVING TO PIVOT , THE CITIZENS, NOT POLITICIANS, THE GROUP BRINGING THIS, IS HAVING TO PIVOT AND START BASICALLY WHAT THEY DID LAST NOVEMBER WITH THE ABORTION AMENDMENT.

THE GROUP IS HAVING TO SAY, HEY, GO READ THIS AMENDMENT BEFORE YOU GO TO THE BALLOT BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE IT ON THE BALLOT IS NOT GOING TO BE WHAT IT DOES.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO READ THAT?

>> THAT IS A QUESTION.

>> THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC.

THEY ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY.

>> I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HOPE THAT VOTERS TAKE THIS AS THE KIND OF DISCLAIMER THAT COMES UP BEFORE YOU BUY SOMETHING OR SIGN UP, I AM IGNORING ALL THAT FINE PRINT, HOPEFULLY IT IS NOTHING BAD KIND OF THING.

I THINK THAT WHAT IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO IS THERE REALLY -- PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THIS ISSUE IS I DON'T THINK THAT THEY CAN COUNT ON PEOPLE READING THE 13,000 WORD ESSAY THAT IS THE AMENDMENT ITSELF OR EVEN THE BALLOT LANGUAGE.

I THINK IT IS JUST REALISTICALLY LONGER THEN PEOPLE'S ATTENTION SPANS.

>> MICHIGAN, IS IT A WISE MOVE?

>> IT PROBABLY WON'T HURT VERY MUCH.

WHAT THE COURTS DID IS JUST A REPEAT OF WHAT COURTS IN OHIO TYPICALLY HAVE DONE, ESPECIALLY THE REPUBLICAN SUPREME COURT, EXCEPT FOR MARINE O'CONNOR.

THEY VOTE WITH THEIR PARTY.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS.

THEY WILL VOTE AND LOOK AT WHATEVER THE PARTY WANTS.

THEY ARE HACKS IN TERMS OF THIS KIND OF ISSUES.

YOU USE THE PHRASE LOADED LANGUAGE, IT IS LOADED LANGUAGE.

>> IT IS TECHNICALLY ACCURATE.

BUT IT IS ALSO BIASED.

>> THEY ARGUE THAT YOU HAVE TO DRAW MAPS TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF NEW AMENDMENTS.

>> THAT THAT IS NOT GERRYMANDERING.

SO IN FACT THEY ARE PUTTING THE WORD GERRYMANDER WHEN A PARTY THAT IS IN CONTROL TRIES TO DRAW DISTRICTS TO GAIN AN ELECTORAL ADVANTAGE.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS AMENDMENT IS ABOUT.

SO THE COURT COULD VERY EASILY HAVE GOTTEN THE WORD GERRYMANDER OUT OF THERE BUT THEY DIDN'T BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY ARE SUPPORTING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY POSITIONS.

>> I AM A MICHIGAN FAN , IS THIS AD GOING TO ANNOY ME OR CAUSE ME TO GO --VOTE AGAINST ISSUE ONE?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT AD.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THE PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THE AMENDMENT, I THINK WE WILL GET A KICK OUT OF IT.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD MOVE.

BUT I CAN'T LET HERB GO BY WITH WHAT HE SAID, DON'T SAY HE IS WRONG, BUT THIS REDISTRICTING THING KEEPS COMING DOWN TWO GOOD GUYS AND BAD GUYS.

DEMOCRATS ARE THE GOOD GUYS THAT WANT TO STOP THIS AND WE ALL KNOW , AND HERB IS ONE OF THEM, WE HAD THIS WORKED OUT YEARS AGO.

THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO RUN AN ELECTION AND THEY WANTED TO BE THE ONES TO CONTROL IT.

THAT IS ALL IT IS.

IF THE DEMOCRATS CONTROL, WE WOULD HAVE THE SAME GERRYMANDERING.

IT ISN'T A GOOD GUY, BAD GUY.

>> IT IS MORE A SEQUENCE OF GOOD GUYS WHO THEN BECOME BAD GUYS WHO THEN BECOME GOOD GUYS AGAIN.

BUT IN FACT WE THOUGHT WE HAD THIS SOLVED IN 2015 AND 2018 AND WHEN THE LEGISLATURE DREW THE MAPS FOR BOTH THE HOUSE AND STATE , THE U.S. HOUSE AND STATE LEGISLATURE, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

WE WILL JUST DO WHATEVER WE WANT.

>> PENALTY WAS, THEY THOUGHT FOUR YEARS WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE TO DRAW GOOD MAPS IN FOUR YEARS AS WE KNOW IN POLITICS, THERE ARE LIFETIME.

>> IS CALLED THE PENALTY BUT THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THAT THAT IMMEDIATELY REGISTERS AS PENALIZING, IT IS A PIECE OF TRIVIA.

FOUR YEARS INSTEAD OF 10 YEARS.

>> THAT WAS THE BEST WE COULD DO.

MAYBE THIS'LL TAKE THE POLITICS OUT OF IT IF IT PASSES BUT WHO KNOWS.

>>> OUR LAST TOPIC, THE FIRST AMENDMENT SAYS CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAWS RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXPRESSION THEREOF.

SIMPLE BUT IT IS KIND OF CONTRADICTORY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

GOVERNMENT CANNOT PICK A RELIGION BUT IT CANNOT KEEP PEOPLE FROM PRACTICING IT.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT WANT TO PRACTICE RELIGION?

THAT IS PART OF WHAT WOSU LOOKED AT THIS WEEK IN A SERIES CALLED THE STATE OF RELIGION.

WE LOOKED AT THE ROLE RELIGION HAS PLAYED AND IS PLAYING IN OHIO POLITICS.

HERB ASHER, YOU HAVE STUDIED OHIO POLITICS BACKWARD AND FORWARD.

RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF OUR DEAL, HASN'T IT?

>> IT HAS, AND WE DO HAVE LONG TRADITIONS BUT WHAT WE ARE SEEING TODAY IS AGAIN, USING RELIGION TO WEAPON EYES THE SYSTEM.

USING RELIGION FOR PARTISAN ADVANTAGE.

TRYING TO ACCUSE YOUR OPPONENTS OF BEING AGAINST CHRISTMAS OR CHRISTIANITY OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

SO I THINK IT IS REALLY -- RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT BUT THE VERY FACT NOW THAT WE HAVE GROUPS OUT THERE AND SEPARATE CHRISTIANITY FROM CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM, BUT THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE OUT THERE.

AND YOU START SEEING HERE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THAT SOMEHOW IN THIS KIND OF DISCUSSION , RELIGION ITSELF WILL BE HEARD.

>> CAN YOU EVER TAKE RELIGION OUT OF AMERICAN POLITICS?

IT IS ALL THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS MENTIONED GOD, YOU KNOW?

>> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN TAKE IT OUT COMPLETELY.

I THINK ALL OF US KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD DO AND WE SHOULDN'T DO AND PEOPLE CROSS THE LINE, THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

BUT IT IS GOING TO BE THERE, IT IS PART OF BEING HUMAN.

I LOOKED AT SOME STATISTICS THE OTHER DAY , JEWISH AND ISLAMIC PEOPLE, THE PERCENTAGE THEY MAKE UP IN OHIO, THE PERCENTAGE WHERE THEY ARE IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IT IS DOUBLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE SO FEW OF THEM ANYWAY, IT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN MUCH.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS REALLY GOING TO AFFECT ANYTHING.

>> HOW BIG A ROLE IS IT AT THE STATEHOUSE RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK IT IS PLAYING A PRETTY MAJOR ROLE BECAUSE THE POLITICS ARE BEING DRIVEN BY THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

AND IT IS SOMETHING, WE ARE SEEING THAT IN A LOT OF , YOU KNOW, NOW.

AND THEY ARE TRYING TO MUST ESTABLISH CHRISTIAN KIND OF DOCTRINES FOR SOME OF IT.

>> THERE IS A PUSHBACK, THERE IS A MOVE TO PUT A CHRISTIAN PRAYER AT THE START OF LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS BUT THAT DID NOT GO ANYWHERE.

NOW IT IS EITHER A NONDENOMINATIONAL PRAYER OR THEY FEATURE DIFFERENT FAITHS ON A ROTATING BASIS.

>> AS A JEWISH PERSON WHO SITS THROUGH FLOOR SESSIONS REGULARLY I ALMOST ALWAYS GET CHRISTIAN RHYMES FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD.

THERE IS ALWAYS SORT OF A CHRISTIAN UNDERCURRENTS TO WHATEVER THE OPENING PRAYER IS.

AND TO YOUR EARLIER QUESTION, I THINK RELIGION PERMEATES ALMOST EVERY BILL.

LIKE THE ALMOST INHERENTLY RELIGIOUS CODED BILLS LIKE ABORTION , WE WILL FREQUENTLY HEAR REFERENCES TO GOD OR THE BIBLE.

EVEN SOME LESS TRADITIONALLY RELIGIOUS ASSOCIATED THINGS LIKE GUNS, YOU HEAR ABOUT ONE'S GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN A GUN, THAT IS A REALLY COMMON PHRASE.

SO I THINK ESPECIALLY THESE VERY CHRISTIAN ALMOST BAPTIST KIND OF PHRASES AND ATTITUDES REALLY PERMEATE THE SYSTEM.

>> BLACK CHURCHES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN POLITICALLY ACTIVE.

UNOFFICIALLY.

IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT?

>> IT IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

THE BLACK CHURCH WAS COURTING THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

RECOGNIZING THAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY REALLY IN TERMS OF BROADER WHITE SOCIETY WAS REALLY AT A MAJOR DISADVANTAGE.

WHAT WAS THE ORGANIZING ELEMENT?

IT WAS THE CHURCH.

AND WHAT'S THE BLACK CHURCH WAS DOING WAS ACTUALLY VERY, VERY OVERT.

NOTHING HIDDEN ABOUT IT.

>> HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS PUSHING RIGHT-WING STUFF WHERE THE BLACK CHURCHES WERE PUSHING OTHER THINGS?

>> GETTING PEOPLE TO THE POLLS, THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN HAPPENING BECAUSE YOU ARE MENTIONING ABOUT THE LEGISLATION, WHAT IS THE LATEST THING, JO, ABOUT THE FETUS IS A PERSON -- >> PERSONHOOD.

>> UNDERLYING THAT IS A RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT AND THAT IS PART OF PROBABLY A BROADER EFFORT TO STILL TRY TO UNDERMINE REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

AND IT ALL TIES BACK TO CERTAIN VIEWS ABOUT WHEN DOES LIFE BEGIN?

THAT IS A VERY RELIGIOUS, DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAS DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THAT.

>> WE ARE GOING TO GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

MIKE MILLER, YOUR UP FIRST?

>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TODAY, I'M GOING TO LOOK AT A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE PROBABLY VILLAGES.

SOME REPUBLICAN, SOME DEMOCRATS, SOME INDEPENDENCE.

WHO NOW COMPRISE THE CLEVELAND GUARDIANS AND WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WIN OUR FIRST WORLD SERIES SINCE 1948 WHICH I BELIEVE IS 76 YEARS.

AND MAYBE IF THEY CAN WIN WE WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHO WINS THE ELECTION.

>> HERB.

>> THIS YEAR COULD BE A REPEAT OF 2016 IN WHICH THE DEMOCRATS WON THE POPULAR VOTE AND LUCY ELECTORAL VOTE.

>> JAKE.

>> WE ARE ABOUT A YEAR FROM THE COLUMBUS MARATHON.

SO WE ARE ALMOST THERE, EVERYONE.

WE ARE ALMOST THERE.

MIKE ALMOST THERE.

LET'S HOPE THE WEATHER GETS A LITTLE BIT COOLER BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

JO.

>> I THINK ALL OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN OHIO RIGHT NOW THE IMPORTANCE OF THE OHIO SUPREME COURT RACES AND I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE ATTENTION ON THAT AND THOSE RACES SOON.

>> THE DEMOCRATS SEEM TO BE RUNNING IN A SLIGHT BASED ON THE FEW I HAVE SEEN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

IN WORLD WAR II, AFTER A 1942 BRITISH VICTORY OVER THE GERMANS, WINSTON CHURCHILL SAID, THIS IS NOT THE END, THIS IS NOT THE BEGINNING OF THE END, BUT PERHAPS THE END OF THE BEGINNING.

OHIO HAS A LONG WAY TO GO IN ITS FIGHT AGAINST OPIOID ADDICTION.

BUT OVERDOSE DRUG DEATHS ARE DOWN.

THEY ARE DOWN A LOT.

20% BETWEEN APRIL 2023 AND APRIL 2024.

NATIONALLY , OVERDOSE DEATHS ARE DOWN 10%.

GOOD NEWS BUT MORE WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE.

DIED DURING THAT PERIOD OF OVERDOSES AND THAT IS 11 PEOPLE A DAY.

BUT STILL, 20% DROP OF THE YEAR IS SURPRISINGLY GOOD NEWS AT THIS POINT.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

WE WILL CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, YOU CAN WATCH US ANY TIME ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR.

WE ARE ALSO ON YOUTUBE , TO WATCH US ON DEMAND AND ALSO THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW, I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.