REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE HAVE A DOOZY OF A SHOW TODAY, I'M SO HAPPY OUR GUEST TODAY IS DOUG PRESTON.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>DOUG: OH, LORENE, IT'S GREAT TO BE ON YOUR SHOW AGAIN.

>>LORENE: ALWAYS.

WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME, BUT YOU KEEP COMING UP WITH MORE WONDERFUL THINGS.

YOU'RE A JOURNALIST AND AN AUTHOR, HAVE YOU WRITTEN ABOUT THIRTY-NINE, FORTY BOOKS, WHAT ARE WE UP TO NOW?

>>DOUG: I LOST COUNT.

>>LORENE: WELL, ABOUT MORE OR LESS FORTY BOOKS, BOTH FICTION AND NONFICTION.

THAT'S WHAT'S SO AMAZING ABOUT YOU, BECAUSE YOUR NONFICTION IS ABSOLUTELY STUNNING, AND YOUR FICTION JUST SWEEPS PEOPLE AWAY, THAT'S ALL.

BUT OF THOSE 39, 40 BOOKS, 32 HAVE BEEN NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLERS, WHO'S GOT A TRACK RECORD LIKE THAT.

SO, YOU HAVE YOUR SOLO NOVELS, BUT YOU DO SOME WONDERFUL COLLABORATIONS, I THINK YOU'VE GOT ONE WITH AN AUTHOR NAMED LINCOLN CHILD, YOU HAVE THE AGENT PENDERGAST SERIES, AND THE GIDEON CREW SERIES.

I THINK YOU HAVE THIS, THAT'S, THAT'S PRESTON AND CHILD.

>>DOUG: YES, IT IS.

>>LORENE: LET'S HOLD THAT UP, THAT'S CALLED SCORPION'S TAIL , IT'S ONE OF YOUR COLLABORATIVE NOVELS.

>>DOUG: IT IS.

>>LORENE: WITH LINCOLN CHILD.

>>DOUG: YEAH, AND THIS ONE TAKES PLACE IN NEW MEXICO AND IT INVOLVES THE WHITE SANDS MISSILE RANGE AND THE VICTORIO PEAK TREASURE.

>>LORENE: I'VE GOT TO READ IT, I'VE GOT TO READ THAT, THANK YOU.

YOUR NONFICTION BOOKS ON HISTORY, WHICH WE HAVE, I GUESS WE COULD CALL YOUR NEW BOOK NONFICTION, IT IS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO CELEBRATE YOUR NONFICTION BOOKS ON HISTORY, SCIENCE, EXPLORATION, AND TRUE CRIME, ONE OF THEM IS CITIES OF GOLD , ONE OF MY FAVORITES, A JOURNEY ACROSS THE AMERICAN SOUTHWEST ON HORSEBACK, RIGHT?

>>DOUG: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: WHOA, HOW WAS THAT?

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT WAS, VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING.

BUT WE WERE RETRACING CORONADO'S PRESUMED ROUTE OF EXPLORATION ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST FROM ARIZONA.

WE STARTED AT THE MEXICAN BORDER ACROSS ARIZONA AND THEN ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: WOW, WOW.

>>DOUG: ON HORSEBACK.

>>LORENE: SADDLE SORE AT THE END OF THAT.

ONE OF YOUR OTHER NONFICTIONS BOOK THAT IS SO ASTONISHING IS CALLED THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE , WHERE YOU DETAILED SOME, A SERIES OF MURDERS, YOU FIND WONDERFUL STORIES AND YOU DIG DEEP, BUT HOW DID THE STORY OF THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE PRESENT ITSELF TO YOU, WHERE WERE YOU, HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED?

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT'S A VERY STRANGE STORY.

I MOVED TO, TO FLORENCE, ITALY TO WRITE, WITH MY FAMILY, TO WRITE A NOVEL ABOUT AN ART HISTORIAN WHO'S MURDERED AND HAS HIS EYES TORN OUT AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

BUT I HAD TO FIND OUT, WHAT DO THE ITALIAN AUTHORITIES DO WHEN THEY FIND A DEAD BODY AND SOMEONE SAID TO ME, OH, YOU'VE GOT TO TALK TO MARIO SPEZI BECAUSE HE KNOWS ALL ABOUT THE COPS IN ITALY, HE'S AN ITALIAN JOURNALIST WITH LA NAZIONE .

SO I SAT DOWN TO TALK TO HIM, AND INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT MY NOVEL, HE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE, WHICH IS A TRUE CASE OF A SERIAL KILLER WHO MURDERED FLORENTINES, YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE MAKING LOVE IN PARKED CARS IN THE BEAUTIFUL HILLS AROUND FLORENCE.

AND IT WAS THE MOST HORRIFYING STORY OF CRIME AND NON-PUNISHMENT I HAD EVER HEARD.

AND I SAID, OH, MY GOD, MARIO, YOU AND I HAVE TO WRITE THIS FOR AN AMERICAN, FOR AN ENGLISH SPEAKING AUDIENCE.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID, WE WROTE THIS BOOK.

>>LORENE: BUT WASN'T THE LOCALE SURPRISINGLY CLOSE TO WHERE YOU WERE LIVING, ONE OF THE LOCALES?

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

WHAT HAPPENED WAS HE ASKED ME WHERE ARE YOU LIVING AND I SAID, OH, WE'RE UP IN, YOU KNOW I DESCRIBED, AND HE SAID, OH, HOW CURIOUS, THERE'S SOME INTERESTING TOURIST LANDMARKS THERE.

THERE'S THE VILLA THAT WAS DESIGNED BY MICHELANGELO, AND THERE'S AMERIGO VESPUCCI'S CHILDHOOD HOME, WHO GAVE AMERICA ITS NAME, AND THEN RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR, IN THAT BEAUTIFUL OLIVE GROVE, WAS WHERE TWO PEOPLE WERE MURDERED BY THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE IN ONE OF THE MOST HEINOUS DOUBLE MURDERS IN ALL OF ITALIAN HISTORY.

AND I WAS LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, THE REAL ESTATE AGENT DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THAT ONE.

>>LORENE: YES, WELL, SO YOU EXPLORED IT, AND I REALLY RECOMMEND READING THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE, BUT I DO RECALL YOU HAD TALKED TO THE REPORTER, SPEZI, ESPECIALLY, AND TO ALL THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, RELATIVES, PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE AND THAT, AND THEN YOU FINALLY THOUGHT YOU WOULD TALK TO THE POLICE ABOUT IT, AND WHAT HAPPENED?

>>DOUG: WELL, THE PROBLEM WAS THAT SPEZI WENT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION IN ITALY AND RIDICULED THE POLICE INVESTIGATION, WHICH WAS REALLY INCOMPETENT.

>>LORENE: NOT A GOOD BEGINNING.

>>DOUG: AND SO HERE'S HOW THEY ARRESTED ME.

THEY CALLED ME ON MY CELL PHONE, THEY SAID, IS THIS MR. PRESTON, SPEAKING ITALIAN, AND I SAID, YES.

AND THEY SAID THIS IS THE POLICE, WHERE ARE YOU, WE ARE COMING TO GET YOU NOW.

AND I WAS LIKE, GET OUT OF HERE, WHO IS THIS?

THEY SAID, MR. PRESTON, THIS IS NOT A JOKE, IF WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR YOU, THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD, YOU TELL US WHERE YOU ARE.

SO THEY CAME AND THEY ARRESTED ME AND THEY HAULED ME IN FOR THIS INTERROGATION.

THEY ACCUSED ME OF BEING AN ACCESSORY TO MURDER AFTER THE FACT.

>>LORENE: OKAY, BUT WHEN WAS THE MURDER AND HOW OLD WERE YOU AT THAT TIME?

>>DOUG: WELL, I WAS IN MY FORTIES, THIS WAS SOME TIME AGO.

THE MURDERS HAD TAKEN PLACE, FOURTEEN MURDERS, BETWEEN 1974 AND 1981.

>>LORENE: AND HOW OLD WERE YOU AT THAT TIME?

>>DOUG: WELL, I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL IN 1974.

BUT THE CASE WAS STILL OPEN, THEY HAD ARRESTED PEOPLE, THEY HAD CONVICTED PEOPLE, THEN THEY'D UNCONVICTED THEM IT WAS A MESS.

AND THE POLICE HAD DECIDED THIS WASN'T A LONE SERIAL KILLER, BUT WAS A SATANIC SECT, DATING BACK TO THE MIDDLE AGES, OF WEALTHY PEOPLE WHO ARE KILLING WOMEN TO OBTAIN THEIR BODY PARTS FOR THE BLACK MASSES.

CRAZY, RIGHT?

SO, THEY WERE ACCUSING ME OF KNOWING THAT MARIO SPEZI WAS A MEMBER OF THE SATANIC SECT AND THAT HE PARTICIPATED IN THE MURDER OF A DOCTOR, WHOSE BODY WAS FOUND FLOATING IN LAKE TRASIMENO, SOME YEARS BEFORE.

AND I KNEW ABOUT IT, AND THEREFORE I WAS GUILTY OF BEING AN ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT OF MURDER AND I WAS ALSO GUILTY OF PERJURY, OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, OF INTERFERING WITH OFFICIAL POLICE INVESTIGATION.

THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS FELONIES THAT WOULD PUT ME IN JAIL FOR 20 YEARS IN ITALY.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU SPOKE WITH THEM WITH NEITHER A LAWYER NOR A TRANSLATOR.

I'M SURE YOUR ITALIAN, WHILE IT MAY HAVE BEEN PASSABLE, DID NOT INCLUDE A LOT OF LEGAL REFINEMENT.

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT'S RIGHT, WHEN YOU'RE BEING INTERROGATED, IT'S TERRIFYING AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE SAYING TO ME, THEY WERE RECORDING ME, RIGHT, OH, THEY'D ALSO TAPPED MY CELL PHONE, SO THEY'RE PLAYING BACK MY CELL PHONE CONVERSATIONS.

AND THEY SAID, MR. PRESTON, YOU JUST SAID THIS AND NOW YOU SAID THAT WHICH IS TRUE, WHICH IS FALSE, AND WHICH IS TRUE AND I'M LIKE, I'M STRUGGLING WITH MY ITALIAN.

IF I DIDN'T SAY IT JUST RIGHT, IT'S JUST BECAUSE MY ITALIAN ISN'T PERFECT.

AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH, MR. PRESTON, YOUR ITALIAN IS PERFECTLY GOOD.

IT WAS TERRIBLE, I WAS SO FRIGHTENED AND I THOUGHT, I'M GOING TO BE ARRESTED, I'M NOT GOING TO SEE MY WIFE AND KIDS AGAIN.

BUT, AT THE END OF THE INTERROGATION, THEY INDICTED ME FOR ALL THESE CRIMES, READ OFF THE INDICTMENTS, I WAS TERRIFIED.

AND THEN THE PROSECUTOR SAID, THE INTERROGATOR WHO WAS A PROSECUTOR SAID, WE'RE GOING TO LIFT THESE INDICTMENTS TO ALLOW YOU TO LEAVE ITALY, BUT THEY WILL BE REINSTATED.

SO, BELIEVE ME, I WAS ON A PLANE TO THE UNITED STATES THE NEXT MORNING.

>>LORENE: AND THIS IS THE SAME PROSECUTORIAL TEAM THAT WAS AFTER AMANDA KNOX.

>>DOUG: THE SAME PROSECUTOR, YES.

>>LORENE: FOR THE SAME DIABOLIC, YOU KNOW, MADE UP.

>>DOUG: OH, IT WAS, IT WAS CRAZY.

BUT ANYWAY, SO THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE IS A BOOK I WROTE, BUT IT'S BEING MADE INTO A TELEVISION SERIES NOW BY APPLE.

>>LORENE: WHO'S PLAYING SPEZI?

>>DOUG: WELL, THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE, ANTONIO BANDERAS WAS CAST TO PLAY SPEZI, AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S SPANISH, HE SPEAKS ITALIAN PERFECTLY, BUT THEY HAVEN'T CAST ANYONE FOR ME YET.

>>LORENE: OH, YEAH?

>>DOUG: WELL, THEY DID CAST GEORGE CLOONEY.

>>LORENE: OH, WOW.

>>DOUG: AND HE WAS ALSO A PRODUCER ON THE PROJECT, BUT THEN HE SHIFTED.

>>LORENE: SOMETHING ELSE.

>>DOUG: SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED, HE GOT INVOLVED WITH OTHER THINGS, SO I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL SEE.

>>LORENE: SO, ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT WHAT YOU DO IS THAT YOU BALANCE JOURNALISM BECAUSE YOU'VE WRITTEN FOR THE NEW YORKER , SMITHSONIAN , NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, HARPER'S, THE ATLANTIC, AND A LOT OF THESE IN YOUR NEW BOOK, WHICH IS CALLED THE LOST TOMB , A LOT OF THESE ARE, IT'S A COLLECTION OF MANY OF YOUR WRITINGS, AND SOME OF THE WRITINGS THAT HAVE APPEARED IN ALL THESE PUBLICATIONS.

BUT YOU BALANCE JOURNALISM AND FICTION, NONFICTION AND FICTION, SO WELL AND I DON'T KNOW, DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE OR YOU LIKE THE YIN AND YANG OF IT?

>>DOUG: I LOVE THE YIN AND YANG OF IT.

ALTHOUGH I MUST SAY WHEN I'M WRITING FICTION I'M THINKING, GOSH, I WISH I HAD SOME FACTS HERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL JUST SO VAGUE.

AND THEN WHEN I'M WRITING NONFICTION I THINK, GEE, I REALLY WISH I COULD MAKE SOME STUFF UP BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HATE BEING SUCH A SLAVE TO THE FACTS, IT'S A BIT LIKE WINTER AND SUMMER.

>>LORENE: YES, AND YET, A NEW GENRE MIGHT COME, COME FORTH, BECAUSE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT ONE OF YOUR NEW BOOKS.

THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY PIECE OF WORK, I'VE ACTUALLY NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.

TO ME THIS IS THRILLING.

IT'S CALLED FOURTEEN DAYS .

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, YOU DID THIS WITH MARGARET ATWOOD, YOU'RE BOTH THE EDITORS OF IT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN THIS BOOK AND WHAT'S SO AMAZING ABOUT IT?

>>DOUG: WELL, IT'S A VERY... >>LORENE: AND WHY IS IT CALLED FOURTEEN DAYS?

>>DOUG: WELL, IT'S A VERY STRANGE BOOK, I WASN'T SURE THAT IT WAS GOING TO WORK.

BUT IT DOES, IT WORKS.

HERE'S WHAT IT IS, IT'S A COLLABORATIVE NOVEL, AND THERE ARE 36 AUTHORS OF THIS NOVEL, AND SOME OF THE MOST EMINENT WRITERS IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU KNOW, DIANA GABALDON, JOHN GRISHAM, CELESTE NG, R. L. STINE, SYLVIA DAY, HAMPTON SIDES IS ONE OF THE AUTHORS.

JOHN GRISHAM.

>>LORENE: HAMPTON'S A FRIEND OF OURS.

JOHN GRISHAM, TOO.

>>DOUG: EXACTLY, JOHN GRISHAM.

>>LORENE: AMAZING LINEUP.

>>DOUG: YEAH, AND SO EACH OF THESE AUTHORS PARTICIPATE, MARGARET ATWOOD WROTE A STORY, I WROTE TWO STORIES, PARTICIPATED IN WRITING PART OF THIS NOVEL.

BUT THE CONCEPTION OF THE NOVEL IS, IT'S A PANDEMIC NOVEL.

IT'S ABOUT A GROUP OF NEW YORKERS WHO LIVE IN A SHABBY BUILDING IN THE LOWER EAST SIDE OF NEW YORK, A MIXED GROUP, WHO DURING THE PANDEMIC, THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GET FRESH AIR IS TO COME UP ON THE ROOF, BUT BEING NEW YORKERS, THEY IGNORE EACH OTHER, THEY DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

BUT AS THE PANDEMIC GOES ON, THEY GET OFF THEIR PHONES, THEY STOP SMOKING WEED OR DRINKING MARGARITAS OR WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING ON THE ROOF, AND THEY FINALLY START TALKING TO EACH OTHER.

AND THEN THEY START TELLING EACH OTHER STORIES AND THESE ARE NOT PANDEMIC STORIES, THESE ARE STORIES ABOUT THEIR LIVES, ABOUT THEIR LOVES, ABOUT ALL KINDS OF THINGS, GHOST STORIES, STORIES ABOUT MURDER, CONFESSIONS OF CRIME, STORIES ABOUT MUSIC.

AND THE SUPER OF THE BUILDING, WHO IS A VERY DEVIOUS PERSON, A WOMAN, SECRETLY RECORDS THE STORIES ON HER CELL PHONE AND THEN EVERY NIGHT SHE GOES DOWN AND TRANSCRIBES THEM AND ADDS HER OWN SARCASTIC AND BIZARRE COMMENTARY AND THAT BECOMES THE NOVEL.

THAT MANUSCRIPT THAT SHE CREATES OF THE PEOPLE ON THE ROOFTOP, FICTIONAL PEOPLE TELLING THE STORIES THAT THESE 36 FAMOUS AUTHORS HAVE WRITTEN, BECOMES THE NOVEL.

>>LORENE: I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IT SUCCEEDS BEYOND PROBABLY YOUR WILDEST IMAGININGS, BECAUSE IT IS SO COMPELLING AND THEN WHEN YOU GET TO THE POINT, AND OF COURSE EDITED BY YOU AND MARGARET ATWOOD, BUT WHEN YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE SOME OF THE AUTHORS ARE WRITING IN THE STYLE OF ANOTHER AUTHOR, IT'S A KALEIDOSCOPE.

IT'S JUST QUITE, QUITE MARVELOUS.

IT IS, TALK TO ME ABOUT THE AUTHORS GUILD BECAUSE IT IS A CREATION OF THE AUTHORS GUILD, RIGHT?

>>DOUG: YES, WE GOT THIS PROJECT GOING WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT OF THE AUTHORS GUILD.

>>LORENE: JUST A MOMENT, I FORGOT TO REINTRODUCE YOU HALFWAY THROUGH.

WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH DOUGLAS PRESTON ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, FOURTEEN DAYS , AND THE LOST TOMB , BUT ALSO ABOUT YOUR ROLE AS THE AUTHORS GUILD.

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT'S RIGHT.

THE AUTHORS GUILD IS AMERICA'S OLDEST AND LARGEST ASSOCIATION OF PROFESSIONAL AUTHORS AND JOURNALISTS IN THE COUNTRY, I WAS THE FIRST PRESIDENT FROM NEW MEXICO.

SO WE HAD THIS IDEA WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT TO DO SOMETHING, A BOOK, BUT WHAT KIND OF BOOK.

WE REPRESENT ALL AUTHORS, WE DON'T JUST REPRESENT LITERARY AUTHORS, BUT WE REPRESENT JOURNALISTS, NONFICTION, ROMANCE AUTHORS, SCIENCE FICTION, AND SO WE THOUGHT, LET'S GO OUT TO THE BROADEST POSSIBLE GROUP OF AUTHORS AND ASK THEM TO WRITE STORIES TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS BOOK AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU, ALL THE PROCEEDS FROM THIS BOOK ARE GOING TO THE AUTHORS GUILD FOUNDATION TO FIGHT BOOK BANNING AND FIGHT THE PIRACY, BOOK PIRACY, AND TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE BIG TECH, WHICH IS SWALLOWING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OUR BOOKS TO TRAIN THEIR AI SYSTEMS WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION AND WITHOUT COMPENSATION, VIOLATING OUR COPYRIGHTS.

SO WE ARE ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE DON'T JUST TALK, THE AUTHORS GUILD IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS, WE HAVE ATTORNEYS ON STAFF, WE ARE SUING THE BOOK BANNERS.

WE ARE WINNING THE LAWSUITS, WE ARE SUPPORTING THE LIBRARIES THAT ARE BEING, THEY'RE TRYING TO SUE THEM, THEY'RE TRYING TO BAN BOOKS IN THOSE LIBRARIES.

WE ARE SUING THESE BOOK BANNERS BECAUSE THEY'RE VIOLATING OUR RIGHTS AS AMERICANS, OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO READ THE BOOKS WE WANT TO READ AND WE'RE WINNING THOSE LAWSUITS.

>>LORENE: THE OTHER THING IS THAT THROUGH AI, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THEY CAN DUPLICATE, THEY CAN LISTEN TO TAPE RECORDINGS OF YOU READING YOUR BOOKS AND THEY CAN NOW HAVE A MACHINE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THAT DUPLICATES YOUR OWN VOICE.

SO MUCH SO, I'VE HEARD IT'S SO GOOD THAT YOUR OWN MOTHER YOU KNOW, WOULD WONDER, YOU KNOW, THINK IT WAS YOU.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST.

BUT WHAT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR THE AUTHOR'S GUILD IS TO STAND UP FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE AUTHOR, TO BE HONORED, TO NOT HAVE THEIR WORK PIRATED, AND THEN IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE LIKE GEORGE R.R.

MARTIN'S WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL GAME OF THRONES AND SONG OF FIRE AND ICE, ICE AND FIRE.

THEY CREATED A FALSE ENDING, IT WASN'T HIS ENDING.

YOU KNOW, AND IT DIDN'T RING TRUE, IT BETRAYED ALL THE FEMALE CHARACTERS, IT WAS LIKE SOME HOLLYWOOD ENDING, AND IT WASN'T RIGHT.

BUT HE HAD TO FIGHT BECAUSE IT TAKES YOU A LONG TIME TO WRITE THE REAL ENDING, IT'S A THOUSAND PAGES AND SO SOMEBODY SNUCK IN WITH THIS HOLLYWOOD MELODRAMATIC STUFF AND PEOPLE BOUGHT IT THINKING IT WAS, THEN SAYING GEORGE, WHAT'S HAPPENED, BUT NO, IT WASN'T HIS WORK AT ALL.

>>DOUG: WELL, THAT'S RIGHT.

IN FACT, GEORGE AND I, AND FIFTEEN OTHER AUTHORS ARE SUING MICROSOFT AND OPENAI FOR STEALING OUR BOOKS TO FEED INTO THEIR AI SYSTEMS WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION AND WITHOUT COMPENSATING US, IT'S A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF ALL THE FICTION WRITERS OF AMERICA.

SO, HERE'S A LITTLE FACT THAT SHOULD OUTRAGE EVERYONE WHO HEARS THIS.

WHERE DID OPENAI OR CHATGPT GET OUR BOOKS, THEY STOLE THEM FROM RUSSIAN PIRACY WEBSITES THAT HAD STOLEN THE BOOKS FROM US TO BEGIN WITH.

>>LORENE: DANCE WITH THE DEVIL.

>>DOUG: OH, YEAH, IT'S AWFUL.

AND THEY'RE TRYING TO TELL US, OPENAI, MICROSOFT IS TRYING TO TELL US THAT, OH, THIS IS FAIR USE, WE'RE NOT VIOLATING YOUR COPYRIGHT.

AND THE AUTHORS GUILD WAS IN TALKS WITH THEM AND WE REALIZED IT'S HOPELESS.

THEY'RE SO ANXIOUS TO MAKE MONEY AND OPENAI, THE COMPANY THAT CREATED CHATGPT, IS NOW VALUED AT A HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS.

IT'S JUST, IT'S TERRIBLE.

ANYWAY, BUT WE ARE GOING TO WIN THIS LAWSUIT.

>>LORENE: I NEED TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT THIS BOOK, THE LOST TOMB.

SO, YOU ARE ONE HECK OF AN ADVENTURER, YOU HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, WITH THE LOST CITY OF THE MONKEY GOD, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR NONFICTIONS.

YOU GO TO ALL THESE PLACES, YOU GOT WHAT LEISHMANIASIS DOWN THERE AND YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF TO TROPICAL DISEASES AND INCREDIBLE RAINFORESTS, BUT FOR ALL THE THINGS, EVEN SOME OF THE ONES ABOUT, LET'S SEE, THE SKELETONS AT THE LAKE AND THE SKIERS OF DEAD MOUNTAIN.

THIS BOOK IS FULL OF THESE STORIES WHERE YOU HEAR A LEGEND OR YOU HEAR A FOLKTALE OR A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE, AND YOU GO THERE YOURSELF, AND YOU CHECK IT OUT.

SO TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THESE ADVENTURES YOU'VE HAD, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME, BUT GIVE ME ONE OR TWO OF THE ONES THAT YOU WERE THERE CHECKING IT OUT.

>>DOUG: WELL, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL OF THESE ARE, THESE ARE ALL TRUE STORIES, ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

SEVERAL OF THEM ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE IN NEW MEXICO.

ONE OF THEM INVOLVES, THE VERY FAMOUS ARCHAEOLOGIST FRANK HIBBEN AND HIS MOST IMPORTANT SITE CALLED SANDIA CAVE, WHICH IS A CAVE IN THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS, WHERE HE CLAIMED TO HAVE FOUND EVIDENCE OF HUMAN BEING OCCUPATION 25,000 YEARS OLD.

I DEBUNK THAT AND THIS ARTICLE THAT I WROTE SHOWS THAT, IN FACT, HE COMMITTED FRAUD IN THAT CAVE.

INSULTED THE CAVE WITH POINTS THAT HE HAD PROBABLY REFLAKED OR NOT, THEY WERE OLD POINTS.

>>LORENE: BUT THERE WAS A FAMOUS FLINT KNAPPER, MAN'S NAME STARTS WITH A B, WHO WAS A PROFESSIONAL AND COULD REPLICATE THESE POINTS FROM MANY DIFFERENT ERAS.

>>DOUG: YEAH, THAT'S ANOTHER STORY IN THE BOOK, BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN FLINT KNAPPING, BUT THAT'S THE FORREST FENN STORY IN THE BOOK.

FORREST FENN, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A GUY, A DEALER, WHO WENT TO FORREST FENN AND SAID, I'VE GOT A COLLECTION OF CLOVIS POINTS THAT YOU WON'T BELIEVE AND FORREST LOOKED AT THEM AND SAID HE WOULD BUY THEM, AND HE WROTE A CHECK FOR WELL OVER $100,000 FOR THESE BEAUTIFUL POINTS, BUT THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS DON'T SELL FORREST FENN ANY FAKES, BECAUSE HE THEN SENT THE POINTS OFF TO AN EXPERT WHO THEN LOOKED AT THEM AND SAID, OH MY GOD, THESE ARE ALL, THESE MUST BE GENUINE, THEY MUST BE GENUINE.

BUT THEN, WHEN HE DID CHEMICAL ANALYSES OF THEM, OF THE SURFACE WEAR ON THEM, HE SAID, OH MY GOD, THEY'RE FAKES.

SO THIS GUY ADMITTED, FORREST CALLED THE GUY UP AND SAID, IF YOU DON'T SEND ME MY MONEY BACK, I'M CALLING THE FBI.

SO THE GUY IMMEDIATELY SENT FORREST HIS MONEY BACK AND ADMITTED THAT THEY WERE FAKE AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND FORREST TOLD ME THIS STORY, AND I SAID, I WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THIS.

SO HE CALLED THE GUY BACK AND SAID, AND I'LL CALL THE FBI UNLESS YOU TALK TO DOUG PRESTON SO THE GUY SAID, ALRIGHT, I'LL TALK TO DOUG PRESTON.

SO I TALKED TO HIM, AND IT TURNS OUT HE'S THIS BRILLIANT FAKER OF INDIAN POINTS, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE COULD DO WHAT HE DID WITH FLAKING TECHNOLOGY.

HE TOLD ME ALL ABOUT IT, HE REVEALED TO ME ALL HIS SECRETS, HOW HE DID IT, WHY HE DID IT, NOT FOR MONEY BUT JUST BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SEE IF HE COULD ACTUALLY FOOL THE EXPERTS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

AND I WROTE ALL THIS UP AND THAT'S ONE OF THESE STORIES IN THAT BOOK.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, IT WAS SO COMPELLING.

SO YOU'VE GOT MANY NEW MEXICO CASES IN HERE.

YOU'VE GOT SANDIA CAVE, YOU'VE GOT THE CLOVIS POINTS, AND THEN THE FORREST FENN STORIES, I MEAN, IT'S JUST I KNOW YOU'RE A NEW MEXICAN, BUT THAT SO MANY OF THESE THINGS WOULD BE IN OUR BACKYARD AND HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE KIND OF OBSESSED WITH IT.

THANK YOU FOR TELLING US THESE STORIES.

>>DOUG: WELL, THERE'S ALSO ONE OF THE MOST HORRIFYING STORIES IN THERE IS ALSO A NEW MEXICO STORY OR A FOUR CORNERS STORY, WHICH INVOLVES PREHISTORIC CANNIBALISM AND THAT IS REALLY CONTROVERSIAL.

SO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE STORIES.

>>LORENE: I THINK IT'S CALLED THE CANNIBALS IN THE CANYON.

>>DOUG: THE CANNIBALS IN THE CANYON.

>>LORENE: YEAH, THAT ACTUALLY, I HAD TO GET UP AND WALK AROUND WHILE READING THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST LET IT SETTLE IN A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A TABOO PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO EVEN CONSIDER AND YET THE EVIDENCE IS THERE.

>>DOUG: YEAH, IT WAS AN ARCHAEOLOGIST BY THE NAME OF CHRISTY TURNER WHO WAS NOT A VERY NICE PERSON AND HE ALIENATED THE NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE SOMETHING FIERCE WITH THE WAY HE APPROACHED THIS RESEARCH.

HE'S NO LONGER WITH US, BUT HE'S VERY, VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

>>LORENE: THE LOST TOMB , IT'S CALLED THE LOST TOMB AND SOMEONE HAD ASKED YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE FIRST HUMAN TO ENTER THE TOMB IN 3,100 YEARS OR SO AND WERE YOU ALREADY HALFWAY INTO THE TOMB WHEN THEY WERE SAYING THAT, TELL ME WHAT THAT WAS LIKE.

>>DOUG: I GOT TO FULFILL MY CHILDHOOD DREAM.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>DOUG: WHEN I READ ABOUT HOWARD CARTER FINDING KING TUTS TOMB, I SAID, I WANT TO GROW UP AND BE THE FIRST ONE IN AN EGYPTIAN TOMB.

AND THEN WHEN I GREW UP, I REALIZED, WELL, THAT'S RIDICULOUS, I'M NOT AN ARCHEOLOGIST AND THEY'VE ALREADY FOUND THE TOMBS.

BUT THEY HADN'T FOUND THEM ALL, IN THE MID 90S, THEY FOUND A NEW TOMB IN THE VALLEY OF THE KINGS.

>>LORENE: WERE YOU THERE WORKING FOR NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC COVERING IT?

>>DOUG: FOR THE NEW YORKER MAGAZINE.

>>LORENE: NEW YORKER , SORRY.

>>DOUG: SO, I WENT THERE AND THEY HAD UNCOVERED 99 ROOMS IN THIS TOMB, BURIAL CHAMBERS, BUT ABOUT 60 OF THE BURIAL CHAMBERS WERE STILL SEALED.

>>LORENE: YEAH, WITH DEBRIS, TOO, PILES OF DEBRIS.

>>DOUG: EXACTLY.

THE TOMB WAS VERY DANGEROUS, THE WALLS HAD CAVED IN, THE CEILINGS HAD CAVED IN AND IT HAD BEEN ROBBED, IT WASN'T LIKE KING TUT'S TOMB.

BUT, I SAID TO THE ARCHAEOLOGIST, DO YOU THINK I COULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE, THE FIRST PERSON IN ONE OF THOSE BURIAL CHAMBERS AND AT FIRST HE SAID, ABSOLUTELY NOT AND I PLEADED WITH HIM AND HE SAID, ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT.

HE HAD HIS WORKMEN OPEN THE DOOR, RIGHT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LINTEL, RIGHT, A BIG STONE LINTEL.

SO THEY OPENED A LITTLE SPACE RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE LINTEL AND THEN THEY PICKED ME UP AND SHOVED ME THROUGH THE HOLE AND I FELL INTO THIS ROOM AND I HEARD THE ARCHEOLOGIST'S VOICE SAYING, WHAT DO YOU SEE?

I SAID, EVERYWHERE, THE GLEAM OF GOLD AND HE SAID, GET OUT OF HERE, THAT'S NOT TRUE, YOU'RE JUST LYING, THAT'S WHAT HOWARD GARDNER SAID.

AND I SAID, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT, I'M JUST PULLING YOUR LEG.

ACTUALLY, THE ROOM'S EMPTY, IT'S BEEN ROBBED, I MEAN, IT WAS FULL OF BROKEN STUFF, BUT NO GOLD.

>>LORENE: WELL, TELL ME, IS TOMB COUGH A THING?

>>DOUG: WELL, IT'S TRUE, YOU KNOW, THAT TOMB WAS FULL OF DUST, AND IT WAS ABOUT A HUNDRED DEGREES WITH A HUNDRED PERCENT HUMIDITY, AND AFTER YOU SPEND A COUPLE OF HOURS IN THE TOMB, YOU START SWEATING, AND THEN THE DUST ACCUMULATES ON YOUR SKIN AND TURNS TO MUD AND YOU COME OUT OF THE TOMB LOOKING LIKE A ZUNI MUDHEAD, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE COVERED IN THIS MUD.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

>>DOUG: IT'S JUST, IT'S HORRIBLE.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOUR ADVENTURES ARE AMAZING.

WE ARE TALKING TODAY ABOUT YOUR BOOK, THE LOST TOMB, THESE ARE ALL TRUE STORIES.

THIS IS SOME OF THE BEST READING I'VE EVER DONE, YOU KNOW, STORY AFTER STORY.

AND I HAVE SUCH ADMIRATION FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE FEARLESS GOING INTO THESE THINGS, YOU KNOW AND NICE TO SEE YOU SITTING HERE, SMILING.

AND THEN THE OTHER, WELL, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE , THAT'S A WONDERFUL READ.

I DO LOVE THE LOST CITY OF THE MONKEY GO.<br/> YOU HAVE THIS NEW BOOK THAT YOU ARE EDITING WITH MARGARET ATWOOD, THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY COLLECTION.

I THINK ANYONE WHO PICKS THIS UP WILL HAVE THEIR MIND BLOWN, IT'S JUST, AS YOU SAY, A COLLABORATIVE KNOWLEDGE, IT'S VERY MUCH FOR OUR TIMES, THANKS.

AND ONE MORE THING, YOU'RE COMING BACK WHEN THIS COMES OUT, YOUR NEW BOOK IS CALLED EXTINCTION AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD VERY MUCH TO READING IT.

>>DOUG: WELL, THANK YOU, THAT'LL BE IN APRIL.

>>LORENE: AND FOURTEEN DAYS JUST CAME OUT, WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE ARE YOU GETTING?

>>DOUG: WELL, WE'RE GETTING WONDERFUL REVIEWS, I CAN'T BELIEVE THE OUTPOURING OF REVIEWS.

I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER ACTUALLY HAD A BOOK THAT HAS GOTTEN SO MANY REVIEWS EXCEPT FOR MAYBE THE LOST CITY.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE IT'S SO EXTRAORDINARY, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT, AS A COLLABORATIVE NOVEL.

WE'VE SEEN THEM BEFORE, THIS ONE JUST IS THE PERFECT THING FOR OUR TIMES.

>>DOUG: WELL, IT'S A STRANGE BOOK, AND IT'S A BIT OF A LITERARY PUZZLE, TOO, BECAUSE WHEN YOU READ IT, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO WROTE WHICH STORY, BECAUSE THE STORIES ARE TOLD BY FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE BACK OF THE BOOK TO SEE, WELL, WHO WROTE THAT, GRISHAM, YOU KNOW, DID GRISHAM WRITE THAT, DID DIANA GABALDON WRITE THAT?

>>LORENE: RIGHT AND YET, YOU AND MARGARET ATWOOD AS EDITORS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD TO PIECE ALL THESE STORIES TOGETHER, BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE HEARD WHAT YOU WERE DOING, ALL THE GREATEST AUTHORS OF OUR TIMES WANTED TO BE PART OF IT, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BRILLIANT IDEA.

AND SO, THEN YOU HAD TO FIND A WAY, AND YOU AS EDITOR, WITH MARGARET ATWOOD, HAD TO FIND A WAY TO STRUCTURE THIS AND IT REALLY WORKS, IT REALLY WORKS.

>>DOUG: WELL, I'M GLAD YOU SAY THAT, BECAUSE ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THE PROJECT I THOUGHT, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST LITERARY DISASTER OF THE 21ST CENTURY, BUT IT WORKED.

>>LORENE: IT DOES WORK AND YOU WORK BEAUTIFULLY.

THANK YOU FOR THE GIFT OF ALL OF YOUR BOOKS.

UR GUEST TODAY IS DOUG PRESTON, AUTHOR EXTRAORDINAIRE, AND JOURNALIST, TOO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>DOUG: THANK YOU, LORENE.

IT'S SUCH A GREAT PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE AND I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SSNTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE,IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM