(bright music) - I'm Norm Silverstein.

Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Alice Holloway Young is someone who has touched many lives throughout our community.

And if you don't know her story, well, perhaps you should.

She's been a leader in the fight for greater equality in education.

And if there was a glass ceiling in the way, it didn't stand a chance against Dr. Young.

She was one of the first African American elementary classroom teachers in the city.

She was the first African American vice principal and then principal.

She helped create one of the Rochester school district's first integration programs, known to many as the Urban Suburban Program.

Dr. Young was a founding trustee of Monroe Community College, a past board chair and chair emerita, and she still active at MCC board meetings.

MCC's Alice H. Young internship program continues her vision to provide underrepresented communities the opportunity to pursue careers in teaching.

And I would be remiss if I didn't note that Dr. Young was a member of the WXXI Board of Trustees in the earliest days of the station, helping to shape its future.

Dr. Young, I'm pleased that you could join us.

I'd go down the list of awards you've received over your lifetime, but we only have half an hour.

So thanks for finding time to be with us today.

- Thank you so very much.

It's a pleasure to be here.

- It's great to have you.

Let's take it back to the beginning.

You're not a native of Rochester.

You were born on a farm in Warren County, North Carolina in 1923.

So what was that like growing up in the South, the rural South in the 30s and 40s?

- Well, I was the youngest of seven children, so we worked, we were farmers.

I picked cotton, I did all the things that a farm girl would do, like hay, load wagons with hay, whatever boys would, milk cows.

It was a rural country life.

We had plenty to eat because we always had one acre of garden with everything that was wholesome and healthy to eat.

But we didn't have very much money.

We were relatively poor, but we had each other.

My parents were very hard workers.

It's interesting how they got to North Carolina.

They came from Virginia, six or eight miles over the border.

My mother was a 1906 graduate of Hampton Institute, which was really unusual for a woman to be a college graduate in 1906.

- That's right, I understand your mother had a degree, your father didn't have a formal education then.

- My father had no opportunity for formal education 'cause there were no schools available for him in that area, so we moved over the border into North Carolina where there was a school for us to attend.

They instilled in us, all of us, the dignity of hard work, the value of an education, and to always be thankful using three words, never forgetting, please, thank you.

- Well, for all that you were taught about education, I heard that you didn't like school that much.

- (chuckles) Oh, no, I didn't.

- [Norm] And why was that?

I heard you had some mean teachers.

- I disliked school.

I'll never forget Ms. Mabel Hannah, who was my first grade teacher.

She was mean.

(chuckles) She really was mean.

I was the youngest of seven.

And of course in those days, one, a student was expected to sit, sit, sit, and place the hands on the desk.

I couldn't do that.

I could not do that.

I was a wiggler and I always acted outside of the box.

I guess I didn't follow rules or didn't want to follow rules.

Well, this teacher, one day, I guess she was, I don't know why, but she put me in the coat room where coats were hung, no light.

I took my little coat down, I placed it on the floor.

I cried myself to sleep.

And when the whole crowd of students walked, some had to walk as far as five miles to get to school, my mother said, "But where's Alice Victoria?"

They didn't know she wasn't with the crowd, so they went back to school.

It was dark, school was closed.

They found me asleep in the dark.

And to this day, I respect the dark.

And I hated school at the time.

Well, when I was in third grade, a tornado came through Wise and destroyed that three story building.

I was the happiest little girl you'll ever saw, because I had no school.

- Well, despite all that, you had a teacher who recognized something in you and encouraged you to apply to college to Bennett.

- Yes, so one day she said to me, "Alice Holloway, I think you'd make a good candidate for Bennett College."

Now, where's Bennett College?

I didn't know.

But she told me with Bennett College was in Greensboro, North Carolina, an all girls school.

And she helped me to write an application to get a scholarship.

I got received a scholarship.

It was a work academic scholarship.

And that scholarship was for $2,500 for which covered four years.

But the work was work.

I didn't mop floors, I scrubbed floors, I shined the brass on those big oak doors, dormitory doors.

Well, I often think of being alive and being blessed to have to work shining brass to go through to a college, to years later having a residence commons named Alice Holloway Young Commons Monroe Community College.

- Well, you had thought about going on to Cornell after that, I understand, but you met your husband and then he must have had some ties to Rochester.

Is that what brought you here?

- Yes and no.

(chuckles) There was a group of women from the American Home Missionary Baptist Society who were recruiting graduates of Black colleges in the South and they came to Bennett College to recruit seniors, graduates.

And I was recruited along with others to go to Poolville, New York to work in the migrant camp.

And my job, our jobs really were to use cameras to really show the conditions of the migrant camps.

But my official or unofficial job was to establish a daycare center for the workers.

Now the workers came up from Sanford, Florida.

They came in open bed trucks from Sanford to Poolville, New York.

- [Norm] Sounds like, "The Grapes of Wrath."

- Well, it was not the most exciting situation, but I found out while being there was that those parents wanted the same things for their children that I would want for mine.

Now I was very young because when I went to college my freshman year I was 16 because my high school only went to 11th grade, and so out of college, I was just before age 20.

I also observed that they came with nothing and they left with nothing.

And they picked beans all day in the hot sun.

And they would go to the commissary to get whatever supplies they needed and they would make an X instead of writing their names.

So I said, you're going to learn to write your name before you leave.

And after working all day in hot field, they come to me and learn to write their names.

There was then that I decided I was going to become a teacher because I was interested in science.

And I did try to go to Cornell.

I said try, 'cause my friend who was from Livingstone College was going to do graduate work at University of Rochester, so she encouraged me to sort of come to Rochester with her.

- [Norm] Well, lucky for us.

- Well, (chuckles) maybe it was supposed to be that way.

- I couldn't help when I was doing a little research noting that you had done this work with the migrant camps.

- [Dr. Young] Yes.

- And it occurred to me, you must have some real strong feelings when you see what's going on now with migrants and immigration.

You ever think back about- - Yes, I do.

I do think back and I sometimes wonder exactly how far have we progressed.

- So from there?

- From there, I received the assignment of being second grade teacher at the old School number 9 on Joseph Avenue.

And it was at that time I was assigned as a reading specialist for the city school district.

There was only one reading specialist at the time.

So I was then the, well first me and the second reading specialist.

The reading specialist would observe me in my classroom to see what I'm doing.

And apparently she liked it or she was learning from me.

Either one, I guess we were learning from each other.

- [Norm] So they brought you in to teach the teachers?

- Right, teach teachers.

I'd been at 19 for four years as vice principal.

Usually one would be a vice principal or assistant principal for one year.

I'd been there for four years, so I was assigned to school as principal.

- So, you thought that took that long because you were a woman of color and maybe the trail breaker.

- Whatever reason.

- Or trailblazer.

- Whatever reason.

But it was really, they say a piece of cake being a principal because I had trained three principals ahead of me.

And one time the last one said to me, "Alice, now you know this is your job."

And I said, "Well, no."

I said, "My job was to make you look good."

So as I went over there, well, the superintendent said, "I'll be watching you."

And I said, "Oh yes."

I said, "And so will many other people, but you'll like what you see."

Everything went fine until Christmas time when central office, they had parties, a little refreshment.

So the assistant superintendent said to me, "How's things going over there at School 24?"

Why do you ask?

He said, "I didn't tell you, but the contingency of parents came down here to object you being assigned this principal."

I said, "Really?"

I said, "Look, give me the name of one parent," so he gave me the name of this single parent.

I said, "Well, I'm glad."

I said, "That parent received more assistance and support from me from any other parent."

She'd come to my office and put her head down on the desk and say, "I feel like I'm down in a hole trying to get out."

So it was easy to find out and to learn and to help people learn that you don't really know anybody until you get to know them.

So, I began to think about school integration, what to do.

- [Norm] Was this when you came up with the idea for the Urban Suburban program?

- The Urban Suburban program.

I wrote that program, Urban Suburban program.

Now I had been vice principal at 19 school for four years.

I knew the parents, I knew the community.

Urban Suburban had to be programmed for success.

I went to West Irondequoit, I did workshop with the teachers.

They felt free enough to ask me questions about, for an example, how do we know if the children's hands are clean?

I mean, just that I'm saying from the nothing, not to put down what they're asking, but that's an example of how interested they were in making their program work.

I said, "We're programmed for success."

And the other part was the parents in West Irondequoit called what they called themselves parents away from home.

So that if the children needed anything or there was an emergency, there would be somebody in West Irondequoit who could be there to assist.

- So that program still continues to this day?

- Oh yes, oh yes, it does.

Well, the Urban-Suburban program, well, it's interesting because I was thinking now if there are fences up there, how are the youngsters on this side of the fence going to know what's on the other side of the fence if I don't remove the fences?

So the big thing was I'm removing the fences.

I knew that program was going to work because it was programmed for success.

We did everything, you know, involved everybody who was, well, the first one was West Irondequoit, of course.

The second one was Brighton, Alice Foley, (chuckles) my good old friend, Allie.

I'm a little surprised that as late, it's almost, what, 52 years or so, 65, 52 years, that some districts are just coming in.

- And it's still controversial in some of the districts.

- Yeah, yes, yes, I have a feeling that some of them are realizing that the money follows the students, so it has some effects on budgets.

- You haven't addressed it directly, but obviously you had to overcome a good deal of discrimination in your professional life.

You talk about the parents who came and complained and how you felt that people would say things like, "I'm watching you."

And at this, and you haven't mentioned this, but I understand you and your husband also faced some challenging times when you bought your home in Rochester.

- 1957, we could not purchase a home west of Genesee Street, west of Genesee Street.

- [Norm] That's called redlining by the banks.

- (chuckles) Well, I don't know about that, but the custodian at number nine, where the old number nine, his wife was a realtor.

That doesn't exist anymore.

He said, "Well, my wife will purchase a house, help you buy a house."

I said, "Good."

So we went strutting with her over to Genesee Park Boulevard looking at homes, those old homes.

She got a phone call saying, if you show those three words I don't say, homes, we're gonna stone you, so she couldn't do it.

So then Mrs. Harper Sibley, I will mention her name because she was really someone who was really great.

Mrs. Harper Sibley, not Sibley Lindsey Kerr, but the other one.

Members of St. Paul's Episcopal Church.

She sort of took me under her wing from the time I came to Rochester.

Gave me a lot good information, good advice.

So a friend of hers from St. Paul's purchased a house on Millbank Street.

I was her niece (chuckles) on Millbank Street.

Well, after work, my husband and I would go, the house was in excellent condition and it had only one owner.

Oh, we dosed and do things you would do.

That Friday when we went there after work in the mailbox was this letter, UGD, you have two weeks to move out of this house, or it will be destroyed by fire.

Now because the mailman didn't put the mail there, but it was in the mailbox, the federal people got involved.

- So all the work you're doing to integrate the schools, and then you buy a house, and that note was signed, the Ku Klux Klan.

- The Ku Klux Klan on Millbank Street.

A Ku Klux Klan off Millbank Street.

I have to say one neighbor across the street was very, very supportive.

He came right across.

He was a man who had been in the service and anything you want, what can you do?

And his wife died not too many years ago recently, but (chuckles) the house on Millbank Street we had, people would go by slowly just to see it.

We had a rose garden.

It was just beautiful being an old farm girl.

And then in the yard, backyard, we had all the toys, kid's swings.

And so three little girls across the street, two.

Yeah, 'cause the ladies would come across and play with my little girl, my little Kathy.

But they'd know what time to go home across the street.

We didn't know that, but they did.

So one day my little girl, Kathy, decided she wanted to go across with them, so fine.

My husband was somewhere, my husband was trimming the house up on the ladder.

And I was out there, of course helping.

And Kathy came back.

I said, Kathy, "What's wrong?"

Well, I can't play because they say the brown, my brown will fade off on them.

My husband got down off the ladder.

I followed him.

We went across Millbank Street.

The mother had just come home with a new baby.

My husband looked at the new baby and looked at the husband, had said, "Fella, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Look at the blessing God has just given you."

Turned around, we came on back home.

Well, not too soon after that, not long after that, they moved to Greece and I left.

I have a friend, a sorority sister who lives in Greece.

I said, "You got good neighbors coming to you somewhere in Greece."

(Dr. Young and Norm chuckling) It's just amazing to be alive long enough to see what goes around, comes around.

- I understand that you actually met Robert Kennedy.

- [Dr. Young] Oh yes.

- Who had come up here because of the work you were doing.

- Yes, Robert Kennedy.

I shouldn't say it, but his hands were so soft.

(chuckles) Shaked his hand.

Yes, he was interested in knowing what we were doing to integrate the schools because we, the city school district made history because it integrated the schools prior to the federal mandate, and so he came to see what in the world is happening.

And he liked what he saw.

He rode on the inter city bus to that bus that I told you.

I could see him getting down off of the bus.

Very, very interesting young man.

And he was interested in what we were doing.

- Tell us a little bit about how you got involved with the real, the beginning of Monroe Community College.

- Oh, there's a man, you might know his name, Dr. Samuel Stebbins, who deceased.

Well, he said, "We're thinking about starting a community college," he said.

Four people would be appointed by the governor.

I would be one of the governor's appointees and five by the sponsoring agent, which would be the county legislature.

And we rode around in a bus.

There were nine of us riding in a bus trying to select a location for the college.

And we chose Brighton over there, the pig farm at the time, starting of course in the abandoned East High School as where we were there for a while.

And that's how we got started.

The very first meeting, the very first meeting of the board, Dr. Steven made it very clear, this is an education board, not a political board.

(chuckles) Yeah.

- Well, we're sitting in a studio right across the street from the new downtown campus.

- Did you ever think you would see the big campus in Brighton and a big campus now downtown like this?

- Well, hopefully no.

Well, yes and no.

There's a picture of me in the boardroom at MCC and it's looking out of the window and someone asked me, "What are you looking at?"

And I said, "Well, I'm looking to the future of MCC."

And then the question was, well, what is the future of MCC?

And I've sort of said all these things that are happening, but not happening, but without defining it, because MCC was and is a people's college.

And if you're serving the people, you have to give them what they need.

Transfer programs, saleable skills, locations, so they can get to it.

Yeah, yeah, and once you, if it's the people's college, it's open.

Once they get in, you can't let them sink.

You have to have strong faculty, strong guidance, strong career.

And I think we're doing that.

In fact, I know we're doing it.

- I have to ask you, have you ever thought about what you'd like your legacy to be?

- Oh gosh.

(chuckles) - Oh, well, I tried to live and remember that I came in the world with nothing, I'll leave the world with nothing except the good that I've done and the deeds that I've done.

Always remembering that what you've done is because of somebody else has sacrificed and done before you, or have opened up paths and been supportive of you.

So hopefully my legacy would be that I'm writing my memorial as I live.

- Well, you are very humble about all the good things you brought to this community and all the work you've done for so many students, what you did in helping to make sure that MCC was successful.

So let me say on behalf of all of them, thank you.

- You are welcome.

- A great service.

- [Dr. Young] Thank you.

- And you already have a great legacy.

- [Dr. Young] Thank you.

- So thank you for being with me and thank you for watching.

You can see this episode and past shows online at wxxi.org and we'll see you next time on, "Norm & Company."

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