>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION  AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI ON THE STRIDES AGAINST  COVID-19 MADE IN INDIAN COUNTRY AND WHAT IT CAN TEACH  THE REST OF US.

>> Fauci: IT IS THE CUSTOM AND  TRADITION THAT ONE LISTENS TO THE TRIBAL LEADERS.

>> Gene: SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH JOINS US FROM  WASHINGTON TO TALK ABOUT A THROW-BACK JOBS PLAN.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

WE ARE KEEPING YOU IN TOUCH  WITH NEWSMAKERS IN TWO GREAT INTERVIEWS PLUS THE LINE IS  GOING ALL LEGISLATIVE AS WE ENTER THE FINAL FEW WEEKS OF  THE SESSION.

WE'LL DISSECT THE CIVIL RIGHTS  BILL THAT AFFECTS POLICING AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND OUR LINE  OPINION PANEL IS ALSO LOOKING AT THE FIGHT TO REIN IN  INTEREST RATES ON SHORT-TERM STORE FRONT LOANS.

WE BEGIN WITH THE EFFORTS TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL  CANNABIS, BUT HERE IS THE LINE.

THE ROAD TO LEGAL RECREATIONAL CANNABIS IS FULL OF SPEED  BUMPS, DEAD ENDS AND DETOURS.

IT HAS REQUIRED SOME ADVANCED  NAVIGATION ON THE PART OF ADVOCATES AND EVEN FROM THOSE  WHO OPPOSE IT.

ARE WE NEAR THE END OF THE  ROAD?

OUR LINE OPINION PANEL WILL  TAKE THAT QUESTION UP AS THEIR FIRST FORAY INTO THE HEADLINES  THIS WEEK.

JOINING US ARE EDITOR AND  PUBLISHER OF SANTA FE REPORTER JULIE ANN GRIMM, ATTORNEY AND  PUBLIC SAFETY EXPERT, ED PEREA, RETURNS AND FROM THE  GARRITY GROUP PR, LINE REGULAR, TOM GARRITY IS BACK.

NOW JULIE ANNE, AS IT STANDS THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE BILLS  IN THE SENATE COMMITTEE THAT PLANS TO HAVE A HEARING ON  SATURDAY THE FIFTH.

THAT'S TOMORROW.

TO SEE IF THEY CAN REACH A CONSENSUS BUT THE ODDS ON  FAVOR TO PASS THE SENATE, IT IS ACTUALLY HOUSE BILL, HB12.

DOES THIS FEEL LIKE THERE IS A SOLUTION COMING FOR YOU?

>> Julie Ann: YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE COULD BE.

MAJORITY LEADER AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE THAT  THESE BILLS ARE CURRENTLY PARKED IN GAVE SOME REALLY  CLEAR DIRECTION LAST SATURDAY TO KIND OF WHAT HE WOULD LIKE  TO SEE -- WHAT THE TWO OF THOSE MEN WOULD LIKE TO SEE  COME BACK, YOU KNOW, THIS WEEKEND, WHEN THE SENATE  COMMITTEE TAKES THIS UP AGAIN.

AND THAT IS REALLY, YOU KNOW,  THE SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE AND NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO VOTE ON  THREE OR FOUR BILLS.

BUT AS IS THE CASE USUALLY IN  OUR LEGISLATURE, THERE IS A GOOD DEGREE OF COOPERATION  WHERE THE SENATE BILL THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED BY SENATOR  CANDELARIA AND THE HOUSE BILL PROPOSED BY REPRESENTATIVE  MARTINEZ AMONG OTHERS, THEY ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF  SIMILARITIES AND THEY WERE DESCRIBED AS COMPANION BILLS,  THEY DON'T LINE UP EXACTLY BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE PURPOSE  OF 183 PAGES AT LAST COUNT, I THINK THAT THEY ARE  FUNCTIONALLY SIMILAR.

AND THAT SEEMS LIKE THE BILL  THAT HAS THE MOST SUPPORT.

HOWEVER, YOU SAW A LOT OF  PROVISIONS IN A BILL COMING OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN FROM THE  SOUTH, SENATOR CLIFF PRIBBLE.

AND SOME OF THE RURAL SENATORS  FAVOR PROVISIONS IN PRIBBLE'S BILL AND SENATOR CANDELARIA  SAID THAT HE WAS AMENABLE TO KIND OF ROLLING SOME OF THAT  IN.

THERE ARE BIG DIFFERENCES THAT  THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO RESOLVE BUT I THINK WE ARE GOING TO  SEE SOME COMPROMISED VERSION SHOW UP ON SATURDAY MORNING  BUT NOT MUCH BEFORE THEN.

>> Gene: TOM, INTERESTINGLY  THIS IS NOT A TERRIBLY PARTISAN ISSUE, AS IT IS  FOLDING, AS WE WATCH.

BUT AS JULIE MENTIONED THERE  ARE SOME THINGS COMING INTO THE TENT, AS THEY SAY, AND ONE  IS THE IDEA FROM REPUBLICANS TO LET MUNICIPALITIES OPT OUT  OF LEGALIZATION.

THAT IS NOT PART OF THE HOUSE  BILL CERTAINLY HB12 BUT THAT IS POTENTIALLY A BIG PROBLEM  HERE?

>> Tom: LOCAL, CONTROL, RIGHT?

ORIGINALLY, SO, THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE AND WHO IS GOING TO BE  THE ONE WITH HOT POTATO RESPONSIBILITY AND WHO IS  GOING TO GET THE BAG OF CASH FOR ALL THE REVENUES?

IS IT GOING TO BE THE STATE OR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT?

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS WHAT -- I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE ONE  OF THE DRIVING FORCES BECAUSE ORIGINALLY ONE OF THE ORIGINAL  ITEMS THAT CAME UP WITH THIS FULL DISCUSSION WAS WE HAVE TO  FIND A WAY TO MAKE UP FOR THE SHORTFALL IN OIL AND GAS  REVENUES.

SO AT FIRST IT WAS A REVENUE  DISCUSSION AND THEN IT BECAME A PERSONAL FREEDOMS  CONVERSATION.

AND THEN IT BECAME, YOU KNOW,  LET'S TIE THE MEDICAL BACK INTO THIS AND STUFF.

SO IT HAS TAKEN MANY DIFFERENT FORMS.

I AM GOING TO BE INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT HOUSE BILL 12,  BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS REALLY THE BILL THAT IS GOING TO BE,  YOU KNOW, SHAPED AND FORMED.

THE FOUNDATION IS THERE.

THE CONTENTS OF THE LEGISLATION HAVE BEEN  REMODELED OVER AND OVER AS JULIE ANN HAS BEEN TALKING  ABOUT.

I AM INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT  THE LATEST REMODEL LOOKS LIKE ON THAT HOUSE BILL 12  FOUNDATION.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

I HATE TO PUT THIS AS SOME KIND OF SUPER SATURDAY, SUPER  BOWL KIND OF THING, BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, GUYS, THIS  IS THE LAST SATURDAY TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS.

NEXT SATURDAY IS MUCH TOO LATE AND CERTAINLY NOT THE SATURDAY  AFTER.

THIS IS IT.

INTERESTINGLY THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ASPECT, BIG POTENTIAL  STICKING POINT AND ONE OF THEM IS THE TERMS OF REQUIRING  EXPUNGEMENT TO LEGALIZATION, MEANING IF YOU HAVE GOT  SOMETHING ON YOUR RECORD FOR A MARIJUANA VIOLATION IN YEARS  PAST, IT WOULD BE REMOVED.

THAT IS A STAND-ALONE  DISCUSSION, IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT NEEDS SERIOUS TALK.

DOES THIS HAVE POTENTIAL TO TORPEDO THE WHOLE THING?

>> Edmund: YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT CAMPS THERE.

ONE CAMP SAYS IF THIS IS NOW LEGALIZED WHY SHOULD SOMEONE  BE CHARGED IN THE PAST BE HARMED BY IT WITH POSSIBLE  EMPLOYMENT OR OTHER FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION AS A RESULT OF  THIS PAST RECORD.

THE OTHER SIDE SAYS, WELL, IT  IS SO IMPORTANT THAT IF THIS IS PART OF AN INDIVIDUAL'S  HISTORY THAT PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF IT, THAT EMPLOYERS OR  ANYONE ELSE, IS AWARE OF IT.

I THINK IT CAN BE SO  CONTENTIOUS AND YOU HAVE TWO SIDES OF THAT ISSUE AND IT  COULD BE A STICKING POINT THAT COULD TORPEDO THE ENTIRE  LEGISLATION, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THERE ARE SOME EFFORTS  TO COMPROMISE AS YOU SAY, GENE, THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS  ABOUT THAT ONE STICKING POINT.

>> Gene: A COUPLE OF  ORGANIZATIONS OUT THERE ARE ON THE RECORD HAVING SOME  PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

JULIE ANN, INTERESTINGLY, I  WANT TO TALK ABOUT TIMING.

IT IS NOT FAIR TO LOOK BACK  AND SAY, OH, IF WE HAD DONE THIS THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO,  WE WOULD BE CASHING IN.

I AM SEEING THE ESTIMATES FROM  WHAT WE EXPECT TO SEE COMING IN FROM LEGALIZATION ON THE  RECREATIONAL SIDE, FAR LOWER THAN WHAT PEOPLE WERE HOPING  FOR EVEN THREE TO FOUR YEARS AGO.

I AM HEARING 90 MILLION,  100 MILLION.

NOT CHUMP CHANGE BUT WE NEED  SOME WAY TO MAKE UP FOR OIL AND GAS.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FOR POTENTIAL INCOME, SO TO SPEAK,  FROM RECREATIONAL?

WHAT IS YOUR RESEARCH TELLING  YOU?

>> Julie Ann: I DON'T THINK  THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY  WILL REPLACE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IN TERMS OF REVENUE.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS EVEN WITHIN THE REALM OF ANYBODY'S  HOPE BUT IT IS ONE OF THE, I THINK, THE BACKERS WILL SAY,  ONE OF THE WAY NEW MEXICO COULD DIVERSIFY ITS TAX  REVENUE STREAM, BUT THAT SAID, ALL OF THE VARIOUS GOVERNMENT  GROUPS AND CONTRACTED FOLKS THAT ARE LOOKING AT THIS  QUESTION OF TAX ESTIMATES, IT IS ALL OVER THE MAP.

YOU HAVE DR. KELLY O'DONNELL WHO IS THE ANALYST FOR THE  SENATE COMMITTEE THAT THE BILL IS CURRENTLY PARKED AT.

SHE HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS  AND SHE HAS DEVELOPED A DEMAND MODEL THAT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT  HOW THE ELICIT MARKET AND THE REGULATED MARKET WILL INTERACT  WITH EACH OTHER.

SO, ONE OF THE THINGS SHE HAS  NOTED IS THAT IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY THAT ALL  OF THE BLACK-MARKET CANNABIS RISE UP AND ALL OF IT BECOMES  TAXED.

THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A  GRADUAL SHIFT THERE.

YOU HAVE GOT THESE ESTIMATES  THAT RANGE FROM AS LOW AS 25 MILLION IN THE FIRST YEAR  TO A HIGH OF 150 MILLION IN FIVE YEARS.

THE QUESTION ALSO REMAINS WHAT THIS TAX STRUCTURE WILL LOOK  LIKE.

VARIOUS PROPOSALS RANGE FROM  EVERYTHING FROM A 9% STATE EXCISE TAX, WHICH IS TACKED ON  TOP OF ALL THE LOCAL GROSS RECEIPTS, YOU KNOW, DOWN TO A  MORE FLAT RATE THAT JUST COMES BACK, YOU KNOW, TO THE LOCALS.

SO THERE IS A WHOLE RANGE OF TAX PROPOSALS AND AGAIN WE ARE  NOT GOING TO KNOW WHICH PROPOSAL HAS TRACTION UNTIL  THIS SORT OF BACK DOOR NEGOTIATIONS FINISH UP AND WE  SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON SATURDAY MORNING.

>> Gene: INTERESTINGLY, I'M CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, JULIE ANN  MAKES A VERY GOOD POINT.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT,  70 MILLION, 25 MILLION, WHATEVER THE MILLION IS, THAT  IS ALL WELL AND GOOD BUT THE TAX BIT IS TRICKY.

A LOT OF FOLKS FEEL LIKE IF YOU TAX IT TOO HIGH, YOU'RE  GOING TO DRIVE PEOPLE BACK TO THE BLACK-MARKET ANYWAY, IF  THE COST IS TOO HIGH.

AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSON,  DOES THAT MAKE SENSE IN YOUR GUT?

>> Edmund: WE FOCUS A LOT ABOUT THE REVENUES.

YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT THE REVENUES AND WHAT IT CAN DO  FOR THE STATE AND REPLACING OTHER FORMS OF REVENUE BUT  WHAT WE ARE NOT TALKING A LOT ABOUT ARE THE COSTS ASSOCIATED  WITH THE LEGALIZATION OF RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA AND I  THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN A LITTLE  CLOSER LOOK AT.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE  OTHER STATES THAT HAVE ALREADY LEGALIZED, THEIR SOCIAL COSTS  ARE INCREDIBLY HIGH.

SO WE WANT TO TAKE THIS SLOWLY  AND NOT ONLY LOOK IN ONE DIRECTION, THAT IS REVENUE  THAT WE WOULD MAKE, BUT ACTUALLY THE SOCIAL COSTS THAT  MAY COME OUT OF THIS.

>> Gene: I HAVE TO ASK YOU  DIRECTLY, ARE YOU GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS OR DO YOU FEEL  LIKE THIS IS TOO MUCH STUFF OUT THERE TO BE MAKING THIS  LEGAL AT THIS POINT?

>> Edmund: I AM A POLITICAL  MODERATE AND I LIKE TO LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES.

OBVIOUSLY THE EXTREMES OF BOTH SIDES HAVE A VERY STRONG  POSITION ON THIS.

THIS HAS BEEN A MOVEMENT THAT  HAS BEEN COMING ON FOR SOME TIME.

AS A FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONAL, I HAVE SEEN THE  EFFECTS, NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF DRUG USE OF ALL SORTS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT LEGALIZING YET  ANOTHER SUBSTANCE, WHICH CAN HAVE NEGATIVE SOCIAL COSTS IN  A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS, WHETHER WITH OUR HEALTHCARE OR  THE CRIME THAT MAY RESULT AS A RESULT OF USE, I THINK WE WANT  TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS WE WALK DOWN THIS ROAD.

I AM MORE FOR LET'S WALK CAUTIOUSLY AND LET'S NOT BE IN  TOO BIG OF A HURRY TO GET THIS LEGALIZED.

WE KNOW THIS HAS BEEN A MOVEMENT FOR SOME TIME.

SOME ARGUE WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS AND THE TIME  IS NOW BUT I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO TAKE A STEP BACK  AND WALK THROUGH THIS VERY CAUTIOUSLY.

THE IDEA OF HAVING YET ANOTHER SUBSTANCE THAT PEOPLE HAVE  ACCESS TO LEGALLY AND I KNOW THE ARGUMENT GOES ON BOTH  SIDES, I THINK IT CONCERNS ME.

>> Gene: APPRECIATE THAT.

TOM, WE JUST HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES.

LAST STOP FOR HB12 IS SENATE JUDICIARY.

THIS COULD BE VERY INTERESTING, YOU KNOW.

JOE  CERVANTES FLIRTED WITH THE IDEA OF LEGALIZATION IN HIS  RUN FOR GOVERNOR BUT HE SORT OF BACKED OFF SINCE THEN.

IS THIS COMMITTEE WHERE THINGS GO TO DIE, THIS ONE  PARTICULARLY?

>> Tom: IT USED TO BE SENATE  RULES COMMITTEE WHERE THINGS WENT TO QUIETLY GO AWAY.

FOR SENATE JUDICIARY, THEY HAVE BEEN PRETTY GOOD ABOUT  GETTING THINGS IN AND OUT ON A TIMELY BASIS.

I THINK IT WILL COME OUT OF SENATE JUDICIARY FOR A VOTE ON  THE FULL FLOOR BUT WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE.

THAT BRINGS UP GREAT POINTS OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF  LEGISLATION LIKE THIS.

SEEING THAT THERE ARE STILL FOUR  BILLS OUT THERE AND REALLY NOT REALLY A CONGLOMERATION OF  WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

YOU HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT  PERSPECTIVES WHICH TELLS ME THAT PERHAPS IT MIGHT BE BEST  TO WAIT FOR ADDITIONAL YEAR TO GET ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT  ITEMS WORKED OUT, MAYBE IN THE FORM OF A TASK FORCE OR  SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, BUT SENATE JUDICIARY THEY HAVE  BEEN PRETTY GOOD GETTING THINGS MOVING THE TRAIN  THROUGH, SO, I THINK IT WILL MOVE THROUGH AND THEN WE'LL  GET INTO PROBABLY SOME PRETTY EXTENSIVE DEBATE THERE ON THE  SENATE FLOOR.

>> Gene: THAT IS WHERE THE  ACTION IS GOING TO BE.

OUT OF TIME ON THIS BUT GOOD  TIME TO REMIND YOU OF OUR GROWING FORWARD POD CAST  DEDICATED TO COVERING CANNABIS AND THE INDUSTRY HERE IN NEW  MEXICO.

HOSTS ANDY LYMAN FROM NEW  MEXICO POLITICAL REPORT AND MEGAN KAMERICK, FROM RIGHT  HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS, SAT DOWN WITH EMILY KALTENBACH  FROM THE DRUG POLICY ALLIANCE, TO DISCUSS STICKING POINTS,  NAMELY HOME GROWS AND PLANT LIMITS AND HOW YOU TAX A LEGAL  RECREATIONAL MARKET.

>> Lyman: TWO THINGS IN THIS  BILL THAT SEEM TO MAKE LAWMAKERS NERVOUS IS UNLIMITED  PLANT COUNT AND THE ABILITY TO HOME CULTIVATE CANNABIS.

THE CONCERN SEEMS TO BE THAT MAYBE HOME GROWS IN AN  UNLIMITED SUPPLY WILL FEED THE ELICIT MARKET.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT DANGEROUS PEOPLE TIED TO THE DRUG  CARTELS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ELICIT MARKET?

>> Kaltenbach: WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DANGEROUS  CRIMINALS WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE  ACROSS THE STATE WHO ARE GOING TO GROW A HANDFUL OF PLANTS.

NO, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A MATTER OF FUELING THE ELICIT  MARKET.

NOR CUTTING INTO THE PROFITS  OF ANY INDUSTRY PLAYERS.

>> Lyman: MEGAN, DID YOU HAVE  QUESTIONS?

>> Megan: ALL THE LEGISLATORS  ARE TALKING TO OTHER STATES, COLORADO, SPECIFICALLY, AND  HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT EVEN IF WE LEGALIZE, WE COULD HAVE  A BLACK-MARKET.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BILL  DOES THAT WOULD ADDRESS SOME OF THESE CONCERNS, WHICH HAS,  I MEAN, IT DID HAPPEN IN COLORADO AND OTHER PLACES.

>> Kaltenbach: I THINK WE ALL AGREE THERE IS A FLOURISHING  ELICIT MARKET RIGHT NOW.

THERE HAS BEEN, RIGHT.

UNTIL WE LEGALIZE AT A FEDERAL LEVEL, WE ARE NOT GOING TO  COMPLETELY ELIMINATE AN ELICIT MARKET.

SO, I THINK THAT IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WE ALL AGREE ON, BUT  THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN TRY TO CRIPPLE THE ELICIT MARKET  HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND I BELIEVE THAT HOUSE BILL 12  BUILDS IN SOME OF THAT.

THOSE WAYS.

SO, ONE OF THE REASONS IS REALLY ALLOWING SMALL BUSINESS  TO GET INTO THE MARKET.

SO, THIS IDEA OF CREATING  MICRO BUSINESSES WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME  AMOUNT OF CAPITAL TO GET IN, THE FEES ARE LOWER, SO, WHAT  WE'LL SEE ARE SMALLER BUSINESSES MOVING IN  ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS GIVING ACCESS, YOU KNOW,  CREATING THESE ACCESS POINTS FOR PEOPLE TO PURCHASE ENOUGH  LEGAL REGULATORY MODEL NOT IN THE ELICIT MARKET.

IT ALSO ALLOWS PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MAKING THEIR LIVING IN  THE ELICIT MARKET TO MOVE INTO A LEGAL MARKET.

WE WANT THAT.

RIGHT?

WE DON'T WANT TO MODEL OUT SOMEONE WHO HAS PERHAPS BEEN  PREVIOUSLY CHARGED WITH A DRUG CONVICTION NOT TO BE ABLE TO  MOVE INTO THE LEGAL ABOVE-GROUND MARKET.

SO, HOUSE BILL 12 ALSO MAKES SURE THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY  HAVE HAD A PRIOR DRUG CONVICTION ALLOW THEM TO WORK  IN THE INDUSTRY AND BE LICENSED, THAT THAT WOULDN'T  BE THE SOLE REASON A LICENSE IS DENIED BASED ON THEIR PRIOR  RECORD.

SO THOSE ARE TWO REALLY  IMPORTANT PIECES OF THE BILL THAT ARE NOT ONLY ABOUT EQUITY  BUT IT IS ABOUT ADDRESSING THE ELICIT MARKET.

THE OTHER PIECE IS AROUND YOUR TAX RATE.

WHEN YOUR TAX RATE IS TOO HIGH, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE   THE ELICIT MARKET FLOURISH.

SO, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COLORADO, THERE IS A STARK  DIFFERENCE IN THOSE TAX RATES FROM WHAT IS PROVIDED IN HOUSE  BILL 12, SO, WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IS SORT OF, AND SPONSORS  TALK ABOUT THIS, THE SWEET SPOT IS AROUND 20% TAX.

IF  YOU LOOK AT COLORADO, THEIR TAX CAN BE AS HIGH AS 30%, SO,  I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT.

EVEN IN ARIZONA, I BELIEVE,  THEIR TAX RATE, THEIR EXCISE TAX IS 16%.

IF YOU ADD ON GRT TO THAT, I IMAGINE IT WOULD BE WELL OVER  20%.

SO, WE ARE SURROUNDED BY  STATES WITH HIGHER TAX RATES.

I THINK THAT IS GOING TO MAKE  A DIFFERENCE IN NEW MEXICO.

>>   Heinrich: I COULD SEE THE CCC CORE MEMBERS IMPLEMENTING  MUCH OF THE GREAT AMERICAN OUTDOORS ACT WORKING WITH THE  BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT ON THE RECREATIONAL  INFRASTRUCTURE AT SOME PLACE LIKE RIO GRANDE DEL NORTE  NATIONAL MONUMENT OR REPAIRING A CAMPGROUND AT WHITE SANDS  NATIONAL PARK.

>> Gene:   TRIBAL NATIONS HAVE SHOULDERED A DISPROPORTIONATE  PANDEMIC BURDEN DUE TO A NUMBER OF DISPARITIES IN  HEALTH AND SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS, SHARED HOUSING, LACK  OF INDOOR PLUMBING, LIMITED ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, ELEVATED  UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS AND OTHER CONTRIBUTING  FACTORS, YET NATIVE AMERICANS HAVE BEEN RESILIENT IN THEIR  FIGHT AGAINST COVID-19 AND MANY TRIBES ARE NOW LEADING  THE WAY IN THE VACCINATION ROLLOUT.

NMIF CORRESPOND ANTONIO GONZALES SCORED A GREAT  INTERVIEW THIS WEEK AND SPEAKS WITH THE NATION'S TOP  INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, ABOUT  COVID-19 IN INDIAN COUNTRY.

>> Antonia: DR. FAUCI, WELCOME  TO NEW MEXICO PBS.

>> Fauci: GOOD TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Antonia: WE KNOW THAT  COVID-19 HAS HIT INDIAN COUNTRY HARD.

RIGHT NOW MANY TRIBAL NATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE  OUTPACING OTHER COMMUNITIES WHEN IT COMES TO ADMINISTERING  COVID-19 VACCINATIONS.

THE NAVAJO NATION EXCEEDED  GOALS OF ADMINISTERING 100,000 DOSES BY THE END OF FEBRUARY.

WHAT CAN WE LEARN ABOUT HOW TRIBAL NATIONS ARE VACCINATING  THEIR POPULATIONS?

>> Fauci: WELL THEY ARE DOING  SOMETHING RIGHT AND I THINK  THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS SET THAT AS AN EXAMPLE AND KEEP IT  UP.

WHAT YOU HAVE IS I GUESS THE  COMMUNITY SPIRIT AMONG THE TRIBAL NATIONS ARE SUCH THAT  WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU REALIZE IS IMPORTANT FOR  YOUR HEALTH TO THAT OF YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR COMMUNITY, I  KNOW IT IS A CLOSE KNIT COMMUNITY, SO PERHAPS THAT'S  ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WHEN SOMETHING AS LIFE SAVING AS A  VACCINE COMES ALONG THE UPTAKE OF IT IS VERY SMOOTH AND  EFFICIENT.

IN THAT RESPECT, I THINK THE REST OF THE COUNTRY  MIGHT LEARN A LESSON FROM HOW THINGS HAVE GONE WITH THE  TRIBAL NATIONS.

>> Antonia: AND IT IS NO  SECRET THERE IS A LOT OF MISTRUST OF THE FEDERAL  GOVERNMENT AMONG MANY PEOPLE IN TRIBAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS  THE UNITED STATES, BUT TRIBAL LEADERS, HEALTHCARE  PROFESSIONALS OTHER TRUSTED MEMBERS OF TRIBAL COMMUNITIES  HAVE REALLY BEEN A PART OF DOING VACCINE ACCEPTANCE.

HOW HAS THIS BENEFITED AMERICAN INDIAN AND ALASKA  NATIVE PEOPLE.

>> Fauci: VERY MUCH SO.

WE HAVE FOUND OUT NOT ONLY WITH COVID-19 BUT WITH OTHER  INTERVENTIONS IN WHICH YOU WANT A MINORITY COMMUNITY, A  COMMUNITY THAT HAS GENERALLY BEEN UNDERSERVED AND THE  COMMUNITY THAT HAS GOOD REASON FOR SCEPTICISM AND I SAY THAT  BECAUSE ANYONE WHO IS REALISTIC AND LOOKING AT THE  TRUTH, THERE IS NO SECRET THAT THE TRIBAL NATIONS HAVE NOT  HISTORICALLY BEEN TREATED WELL BY VARIOUS FEDERAL AGENCIES.

HOPEFULLY THAT HAS GOTTEN BETTER IN RECENT TIMES, BUT I  THINK THE CORPORATE MEMORY OF THE ELDERS TO THE YOUNGER  PEOPLE IS THAT THERE IS THIS MISTRUST.

AND I THINK WHEN YOU GOT TRUSTED MEMBERS OF THE  COMMUNITY TO EXAMINE THE DATA, LOOK AT IT AND SAY, YOU KNOW,  THIS IS A SAFE AND EFFICACIOUS VACCINE AND IT IS FOR THAT  REASON THAT WE TRY TO PARTNER WITH THE LEADERS OF THE TRIBAL  NATIONS AND SET BY EXAMPLE.

SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW I MYSELF  AND THE PRESIDENT AND THE VICE PRESIDENT PUBLICLY GOT  VACCINATED TO SHOW THE REST OF THE WORLD AND THE COUNTRY,  INCLUDING TRIBAL NATIONS, THAT WE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE  SAFETY AND EFFICACY OF THE VACCINE.

HOPEFULLY THAT GETS TRANSLATED TO THE TRIBAL NATION  COMMUNITY.

>> Antonia: AND RIGHT NOW  TRIBES HAVE THE OPTION OF EITHER GETTING VACCINE  DISTRIBUTION THROUGH THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE OR  WORKING WITH STATES.

TRIBES ACROSS THE COUNTRY,  LIKE WE SAID, ARE DOING WELL.

THEY ARE GETTING BOTH PFIZER  AND MODERNA, WHICH YOU NEED TWO DOSES FOR.

RIGHT NOW WE HEARD THE NEWS ABOUT JOHNSON AND JOHNSON  BEING APPROVED.

WILL TRIBAL NATIONS GET SINGLE-DOSE  VACCINE.

>> Fauci: THE ANSWER IS YES,  BECAUSE I JUST HAVE BEEN IN CONSULTATION WITH OUR MEDICAL  TEAM AND THE PLAN FOR THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE J AND J  VACCINE IS THAT IT WILL BE EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED IN  EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT THE MODERNA AND THE PFIZER  VACCINES HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED.

IT IS BASED ON POPULATION PER STATE AND THEN WHEN YOU GET  TRIBAL NATIONS, THE SAME MECHANISM THAT GOT THEM  MODERNA AND PFIZER WILL GET THE J AND J TO YOU.

>> Antonia: LET'S TALK ABOUT CHILDREN FOR A MOMENT.

RIGHT NOW PFIZER IS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE 16 YEARS AND OLDER.

WHEN CAN WE SEE SOMETHING IN THE UNITED STATES BEING  OFFERED TO PEOPLE YOUNGER THAN 16?

>> Fauci: IT IS GOING TO BE AGE DEESCALATION APPROACH.

THERE ARE SEVERAL COMPANIES THAT HAVE ALREADY STARTED  STUDIES LOOKING AT THE 12 TO 17, NAMELY HIGH SCHOOL  STUDENTS.

WE ANTICIPATE THAT BY THE TIME  WE GET TO THE FALL, I AM NOT SURE IF IT WILL BE THE VERY  FIRST DAY OF THE OPENING OF THE SCHOOL BUT SOME TIME IN  EARLY FALL, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET ENOUGH INFORMATION TO  VACCINATE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

THE STUDY OF GETTING FROM 12 TO 9, FROM 9 TO 6, FROM 6 TO 2  AND FROM 6 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS WILL BE IN A GRADED FASHION  THAT WE LIKELY WILL NOT COMPLETE THAT UNTIL THE END OF  2021 SO WE ANTICIPATE THAT CHILDREN IN THE ELEMENTARY  SCHOOL LEVEL WILL LIKELY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE FIRST  QUARTER OF 2022 BEFORE VACCINES ARE AVAILABLE TO  THEM.

>> Antonia: DR. FAUCI, YOU  HAVE PRAISED TRIBAL NATIONS FOR THEIR FIGHT OF COVID-19.

TRIBES HAVE DONE SOME OF THE TOUGHEST MEASURES WHEN IT  COMES TO EMERGENCY RESPONSE INCLUDING MASK MANDATES, LOCK  DOWNS, CURFEWS, A LOT OF TOUGH DECISIONS TRIBAL LEADERS HAVE  MADE OVER THE COURSE OF NEARLY A YEAR NOW.

WHAT CAN THE COUNTRY LEARN FROM THAT OR IS IT A LITTLE  TOO LATE?

>> Fauci: IT IS NEVER TOO  LATE.

THE COUNTRY CAN LISTEN TO THE  FACTS THAT WHAT YOU DO NEED, AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING  TO DO, IS TO HAVE A CLOSE COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION  BETWEEN THE LEADERS, IN THIS SENSE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,  AND LOCAL STATES AND CITIES, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE THAT  SYNERGY COOPERATION AND COLLABORATION, THINGS GET DONE  VERY WELL.

WHEN THE TRIBAL LEADERS SAY  THIS IS GOOD FOR THEIR CITIZENS, THE MEMBERS OF THE  TRIBAL NATION, IT IS THE CUSTOM AND THE TRADITION THAT  ONE LISTENS TO THE TRIBAL LEADERS.

AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY IT HAS BEEN SO SMOOTH WHEN THE  TRIBAL LEADERS HAVE DECIDED THAT THIS IS GOOD FOR THE  HEALTH OF THE INDIVIDUAL, THE FAMILY AND THE COMMUNITY, THAT  THERE HAS BEEN VERY GOOD UPTAKE OF VACCINE BY THE  TRIBAL NATION.

>> Antonia: AS VACCINES BECOME  WIDELY AVAILABLE LIKELY BY THE SUMMER, WHAT IS COVID-19 LIFE  GOING TO LOOK LIKE AFTER THAT?

>> Fauci: I THINK GRADUALLY --  IT'S NOT LIKE TURNING A LIGHT SWITCH ON AND OFF -- GRADUALLY  THAT YOU WILL HAVE LESS AND LESS INFECTION IN THE  COMMUNITY, TO THE POINT WHERE THE RISK WILL BE MARKEDLY  DIMINISHED AT WHICH POINT SOME OF THE RESTRICTIVE PUBLIC  HEALTH MEASURES COULD BE RELAXED A BIT AND WE COULD  GRADUALLY START RETURNING TO SOME FORM OF NORMALITY, WHICH  I HOPE WILL BE BY THE END OF THE SUMMER AND AS WE GET INTO  THE FALL.

>> Antonia: DR. ANTHONY FAUCI,  THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY ON NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS.

>> Fauci: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT IS MY PLEASURE BEING WITH YOU.

>> Gene: THE STATE SENATE THIS WEEK PASSED A BILL SB66 THAT  WILL CAP INTEREST RATES FOR SHORT-TERM LOANS AT 36%.

MIGHT SOUND HIGH BUT THE CURRENT LIMIT IS 175%, BELIEVE  IT OR NOT.

ABOUT ONE IN 5 NEW MEXICO  HOUSEHOLD IS CONSIDERED TO BE LIVING IN POVERTY AND NEW  MEXICO CENTER ON LAW AND POVERTY SAYS 65% OF HIGH COST  LENDERS HAVE THEIR STORE FRONTS WITHIN 15 MILES OF  TRIBAL LANDS.

THE STATE INSTITUTED THAT 175%  CAP JUST A FEW YEARS AGO.

AS WE GET MORE DATA AND MORE  TIME GOES BY, OTHER STATES HAVE BLOWN PAST NEW MEXICO AND  WE ARE NOW BRINGING UP THE REAR WITH THE HIGHEST RATE IN  THE COUNTRY.

TOM AS OUR LAWMAKERS OFTEN  LOOK AT LEGISLATION TO POINT OUT THE WORST THING THAT COULD  HAPPEN, SHOULD THEY BE FLIPPING THAT PERSPECTIVE TO  WEIGH THE COST OF INACTION?

>> Tom: WHEN IT COMES TO PAY  DAY, IN GENERAL, IT IS A TWO-EDGED SWORD, RIGHT?

YOU HAVE ONE END OF THE EQUATION PEOPLE WHO  DESPERATELY NEED CASH AND DON'T HAVE CREDIT TO GO  THROUGH TRADITIONAL BANKING SYSTEMS.

ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE FOLKS JUST SAY 174, 175%  INTEREST WHICH IS JUST, FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO  CREDIT, IT BLOWS YOUR MIND.

SO, I THINK, PROXIMITY IS A  BIG ISSUE AND THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN SOME OF THE  LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS EASY TO SAY THAT THIS AS AN INDUSTRY  SHOULD NOT EXIST, AT LEAST THE 175% CAP SHOULD NOT EXIST.

OTHER STATES HAVE CLEARLY SHOWN YOU CAN MAKE THAT  INDUSTRY WORK WITH 36% OR EVEN LOWER PERCENTAGES.

THAT COME FROM THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

>> Gene: ALSO THE MILITARY.

YOU KNOW 36% IS NOW THEIR  NUMBER.

IT IS NOT, YOU KNOW, A FREE  FALL ANYMORE.

RIGHT TO JULIE ANN ON THIS.

YOU HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF COVERAGE NOW THAT TOM  MENTIONED THE REPORTER.

LET ME KIND OF BACK UP JUST A  SECOND AND YOUR SENSE OF WHERE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE  LEGISLATURE IS TO MAKE CHANGE OF THIS TYPE ANYWAY.

THIS IS A BIG CHANGE WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT.

>> Julie Ann: AND SO THIS IS A REFORM MEASURE THAT, AS YOU  MENTIONED, HAS BEEN IN PLAY.

FOLKS HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR  THIS CHANGE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

IT WAS JUST IN 2017 WHEN NEW MEXICO DECIDED TO PUT A CAP ON  THIS TYPE OF LENDING AT ALL.

THE CAP IS TRIPLE DIGIT WHICH  IS, I THINK, GHASTLY TO FOLKS WHO ARE GETTING CAUGHT IN THIS  KIND OF SPIRAL.

AND AS TOM MENTIONED, IT SEEMS  TO THOSE WHO HAVE CREDIT AN INCREDIBLY HIGH NUMBER.

AS YOU MENTIONED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS ALREADY TAKEN A  STANCE ON THIS WHEN IT COMES TO MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY.

YOU CAN'T ISSUE ONE OF THESE LOANS IN ANY STATE IN THE  NATION TO A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY AT HIGHER THAN 36%.

I THINK THE BACKERS ARE SAYING EVERY NEW MEXICAN OUGHT TO BE  TREATED THE SAME AS A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY WHEN IT COMES  TO THIS SORT OF GOUGING TYPE OF INTEREST.

YOU HAVE SEEN THIS MEASURE MOVE OUT OF THE SENATE.

IT IS NOW STATIONED IN THE HOUSE, BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE  HOUSE COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE AND ALSO  ASSIGNED TO THE HOUSE JUDICIARY.

I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT IS GOING TO COME UP AND  THAT IS ALREADY ON THE MINDS OF THE FOLKS PUSHING FOR THIS  REFORM IS WHAT DEGREE WILL THE INDUSTRY'S SPENDING HAVE AN  IMPACT HERE AS THE HOUSE DEBATES.

WE KNOW THAT THIS INDUSTRY HAS MADE SIZEABLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO  POLITICIANS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN THE  LAST DECADE AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS KIND OF AN OPEN QUESTION  HERE AS WE MOVE TO THE HOUSE WHERE THE DEBATE IS GOING TO  CENTER.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, DO WE  HAVE TIME BEFORE MARCH 20TH FOR THIS TO GET TO THE HOUSE  FLOOR FOR A VOTE?

>> Gene: INTERESTINGLY WHEN I  LISTEN TO JULIE ANN TALK ABOUT THIS, IT REALLY REMINDS ME HOW  DEEPLY ENGRAINED POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY STORE FRONT  LENDING IS IN OUR STATE.

THIS IS A VERY FAMILIAR PART  OF OUR RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS IF YOU DRIVE UP AND DOWN MAIN  STREETS ALL OVER NEW MEXICO.

THERE IS A LOT OF POWER THERE  IN THEIR INDUSTRY BUT IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO APPROACH THIS  AS OPPOSED TO PERCENTAGE FIXES, 175 VERSUS 36.

IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT CAN BE DONE HERE?

>> Edmund: THE OPERATIVE WORD IN THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION IS  PREDATORY OR PREY.

CAN YOU SAY LOAN SHARK?

THINGS HAVE CHANGED SO SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE THE TIME  THAT WE REALLY LOOKED AT THE VERY HIGH INTEREST RATES  ASSOCIATED WITH THIS TYPE OF LENDING.

OTHER STATES HAVE MANDATED A LOWER INTEREST RATE AND SOME  OF THOSE COMPANIES THAT HAD SHOP SET UP IN OTHER STATES  HAVE ACCEPTED THE LOWER INTEREST RATE BUT WE HAVEN'T.

THIS IDEA THAT THESE LOAN BUSINESSES WILL MOVE  ELSEWHERE, WHERE THEY HAVE ALREADY MOVED ELSEWHERE AND  STOPPED AND ARE STILL HERE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS I  THINK WE CAN DO.

THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR  THOSE WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD IT.

ONE OF THE WAYS TO APPROACH  THIS TOO, IF WE DON'T WANT THE LEGISLATURE TO HANDLE THIS IS  PUT IT ON THE BALLOT AS A BALLOT INITIATIVE AND LET THE  PUBLIC CITIZENS DECIDE, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY WANT TO DEAL  WITH THIS ISSUE.

THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM AND AS  MENTIONED EARLIER IT PREYS ON THOSE PEOPLE THAT CAN LEAST  AFFORD IT.

WE ARE LAST AMONG THOSE STATES  WHO HAVE REALLY WRESTLED WITH THIS ISSUE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO TAKE A HARD STANCE AND DO  SOMETHING THIS SESSION.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

INTERESTINGLY, THIS 36 NUMBER, JULIE ANN, MENTIONED MILITARY,  OF COURSE, CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK, TEXAS, KANSAS, FLORIDA,  THESE PEOPLE ARE WORKING UNDER A 36% SCHEME.

THEY HAVEN'T HAD PEOPLE FLEE OUT OF THERE AND NOT MAKE  LOANS ANYMORE.

THIS IDEA THAT IT IS GOING TO  DING ALL THESE MOM AND POP OWNERSHIPS BUT A LOT OF THEM  ARE LARGE CORPORATIONS, THEY ARE NOT MOM AND POP STORE  FRONT OPERATIONS.

CAN'T WE JUST BITE THE BULLET  AND GO THERE AND SEE HOW THE MARKET SHAKES OUT?

>> Tom: IT WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TIME.

WE HAVE SEEN GOVERNMENT INTERVENE IN MANY WAYS OVER  THE LAST YEAR, IN WAYS WE COULDN'T EVEN FATHOM.

YOU COULD DO THAT AS A SCIENCE EXPERIMENT.

AND OTHER STATES HAVE TESTED THAT ALREADY.

THE LARGER ISSUE AT PLAY, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE PREDATORY  LENDERS OR THE 175% CAP, YOU KNOW, LENDERS, DEFINITELY IS A  CONCERN, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT MOST VULNERABLE NEW MEXICANS  WHO ARE REALLY RELYING ON THAT AS A LAST RESORT, WHY ARE THEY  DOING THAT?

CHANCES ARE BECAUSE THERE IS  AN AUTO SHOP, MAYBE A ROOFER, MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO IS HOLDING  SOMETHING OVER THEIR HEAD SAYING I NEED MY CASH NOW.

SO YOU HAVE THIS CYCLE THAT JUST HAPPENS TO END WITH THE  PREDATORY LENDING.

SO, IS IT ALL THE PREDATORY  LENDERS OR ALL THE LOAN REFORM THAT IS NEEDED, THAT IS ONE  ASPECT BUT THERE IS A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS THAT TAKES PLACE  BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS TO THAT POINT.

>> Gene: THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF NEW MEXICO AND OTHER FAITH  GROUPS SAY THIS IS A SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUE.

SENATOR DUHIGG SAYS ALLOWING 175% INTEREST RATE IS LIKE  GIVING POISON FOOD TO A STARVING PERSON.

YOU GUYS HAVE THAT QUOTE IN YOUR PUBLICATION.

YOUR SENSE  OF HOW THAT SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT IS IMPACTING THE  OVERALL ARGUMENT?

>> Julie Ann: WE HAVE HAD A  LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM READERS WHO WEREN'T REALLY AWARE OF  THE SITUATION AND I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY HEAR  THOSE NUMBERS, THEIR REACTION IS, THAT IS NOT GOOD, THAT IS  NOT COOL.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE  OTHER STATES THAT HAVE NOT REGULATED THIS INDUSTRY, WE  ARE TALKING ABOUT OKLAHOMA AND MISSISSIPPI BEING THE OTHER  TWO STATES THAT ARE NOT DOING 36% CAP.

THERE ARE ALSO THREE STATES THAT HAVE NO REGULATION ABOUT  THIS, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED NEW MEXICO'S CAP IS STILL A  CAP AT 175%, SO, REALLY, THIS IS NOT EXPERIMENTAL,  THIS REGULATION.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUSHING FOR  THIS HAVE MADE THAT ARGUMENT FAIRLY STRONGLY.

YOU KNOW, ON THE POINT OF THE MOM AND POP STORE FRONT, THE  REPORTER HAS ASKED REPEATEDLY FOR A MOM AND POP STORE FRONT  TO MAKE THEMSELVES KNOWN AND TALK ABOUT THEIR FAMILY  BUSINESS BEING AFFECTED BY THIS AND WE KEEP GETTING  FRANCHISES OF GIANT CORPORATIONS WHO TALK ABOUT,  YOU KNOW, THE EFFECT BUT IF THERE IS A MOM AND POP STORE  FRONT LENDER OUT THERE THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT, I AM  WAITING FOR THEM TO EMERGE.

>> Gene: SAME HERE AT NEW  MEXICO PBS.

WE ARE WITH YOU.

LAST QUESTION, ATTENDANT TO THIS EFFORT, THIS CAME UP FOUR  YEARS AGO WITH THIS 175 CAP LEGISLATION, IS THE IDEA OF  FINANCIAL LITERACY AND SOMEHOW TYING FINANCIAL LITERACY  EFFORTS, LESSONS OR CLASSES, SOMETHING, TO THESE LOANS.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU IN SOME CAPACITY?

DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE SOME OBLIGATION TO TEACH PEOPLE HOW  TO BETTER MANAGE THEIR OWN MONEY OR IS THAT SOMETHING  THEY DON'T NEED TO GET INTO?

>> Edmund: IT IS A QUASI MORAL  OBLIGATION -- WHETHER THE STORE FRONTS, HIGH INTEREST  LOAN PLACES, WHETHER IT IS THEIR PERSONAL OBLIGATION, IT  IS A SOCIAL OBLIGATION.

WE KNOW THERE ARE CREDIT  UNIONS AND BANKS ALREADY ENGAGED IN THAT TYPE OF  FINANCIAL LITERACY EDUCATION.

OFTEN THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO  FIND THEMSELVES UNDER WATER AS A RESULT OF THESE PAY DAY  LOANS WILL SOMETIMES GO TO THESE BANKS OR CREDIT  INSTITUTIONS AS A WAY TO GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS DEBT.

SOMETIMES THESE BANKS AND CREDIT UNIONS WILL LOAN MONEY  ON THE CONDITION THAT SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL LITERACY  COURSES, TRAINING OR EDUCATION TAKES PLACE, SO, THIS REALLY  IS A KEY COMPONENT.

GOING BACK TO SOME OF THE  POINTS THAT TOM MADE.

AS PEOPLE SINK DEEPER AND  DEEPER, THERE NEEDS TO BE A WAY TO RECOVER AND EDUCATION  IS ALMOST ALWAYS THE KEY TO AN ISSUE.

>> Gene: SOME FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT REQUIRED COURSES  IN HIGH SCHOOL AND ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS.

SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH HAS ONCE AGAIN INTRODUCED THE 21ST  CENTURY CONSERVATION CORPS ACT MODELED AFTER THE CIVILIAN  CONSERVATION CORPS OF THE 1930'S AND IT WOULD PUT PEOPLE  TO WORK ON LANDSCAPE RESTORATION PROJECTS, URBAN  AND COMMUNITY FORESTRY AND A LOT MORE.

CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH THE SENATOR FROM  WASHINGTON.

>> Laura: SENATOR, PRESIDENT  BIDEN HAS CALLED FOR CREATION OF A CLIMATE CONSERVATION  CORPS AND LAST YEAR, NOW THIS YEAR, YOU HAVE INTRODUCED THE  21ST CENTURY CONSERVATION CORPS ACT.

HERE NOW IN THE 2020'S, WHY ARE WE LOOKING BACK TO THE  ORIGINAL CCC FROM THE 1930'S?

>> Heinrich: I THINK THE  FUNDAMENTAL CORE OF THE CCC  WAS INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL AND I KNOW THAT AT A TIME WHEN I  WAS SORT OF GROWING UP IN NATURAL RESOURCES POLICY, I  GOT A CHANCE TO GET TO KNOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD  SERVED IN THE CCC AND DECADES AND DECADES LATER THEY WERE SO  ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT WHAT IT MEANT FOR THEIR LIFE AND THEY  WENT IN MANY DIRECTIONS FROM THERE, BUT THEY REALLY  CREDITED IT WITH CREATING THEIR ADULT SELVES IN MANY  CASES.

AND, REALLY, IMPACTING NOT  JUST THEIR ABILITY TO LEARN SOMETHING IN THE OUTDOORS AND  BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE BUT HOW MUCH IT SHAPED THEIR CHARACTER  THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

AND THEY WOULD OFTENTIMES WEAR A CCC BELT BUCKLE AS A SIGNAL  TO OTHER CCC MEMBERS AND TAKING THAT CORPS AND  BROADENING IT TO THE DIVERSE, MODERN, YOU KNOW, POPULATION  THAT WE HAVE NOW, MAKING IT ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE FROM ALL  BACKGROUNDS, I THINK, HAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF  ATTRACTIVENESS TO IT.

>> Laura: I LOVE THAT BELT  BUCKLE.

LIKE A BAT SYMBOL.

>> Heinrich: EXACTLY.

>> Laura: SO, IF THIS BILL  WERE PASSED, HOW WOULD IT BENEFIT NEW MEXICO AND NEW  MEXICANS, DO YOU THINK?

>> Heinrich: SO, IN TERMS OF  BENEFITING NEW MEXICO, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IT WOULD DO  IS REALLY SCALE UP WHAT WE ALL AGREE NEEDS TO HAPPEN, WHICH  IS WE NEED MORE PEOPLE, NOT BEHIND A DESK, BUT OUT IN THE  FIELD HAVING AN IMPACT ON LANDSCAPES, MAKING THEM MORE  RESILIENT, MAKING THEM MORE CLIMATE RESILIENT, DOING THE  WORK THAT MAKES THESE LANDSCAPES MORE FUNCTIONAL IN  THE WAY THEY WERE A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO, MORE  RESPONSIVE TO FIRE, LESS PRONE TO LARGE CATASTROPHIC FIRES,  RESTORING RANGE LAND, WORKING ON ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT  REQUIRE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF LABOR AND AT A TIME WHEN ON  THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION, WE HAVE A LOT OF  YOUNG PEOPLE AND A LABOR FORCE THAT BECAUSE OF THE LAST YEAR  OF THE PANDEMIC, WOULD, I THINK, IN MANY CASES REALLY  WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK IN THOSE KINDS OF  ENVIRONMENTS AND PUT PEOPLE BACK IN RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT  NEED THESE PROJECTS TO MAXIMIZE THE HEALTH OF THEIR  SURROUNDING LANDSCAPES.

>> Laura: TALK ABOUT THE  INTERSECTION BETWEEN JOBS, COVID-19 AND CLIMATE CHANGE?

>> Heinrich: IN SOME WAYS COVID-19 SHOWED US THAT WE --  I THINK THERE -- WE SAW A LOT OF WISHFUL THINKING IN TERMS  OF POLICY OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR, OH, IF WE  IGNORE THIS THING IT WILL GO AWAY.

WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW  THE SCIENCE AND ALL OF THAT CONTRIBUTED TO AN ENORMOUS  PUBLIC HEALTH IMPACT AND ALSO ENORMOUS ECONOMIC IMPACT IN  MANY FAMILIES.

THE CONNECTION THERE IS THE  SCIENCE IS THE SCIENCE.

WE CAN BEAT COVID-19 BUT IT  REQUIRES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MARSHALING OF RESOURCES,  COOPERATION, UTILIZATION OF SCIENCE FOR THE VACCINE, FOR  THERAPEUTICS AND SCALE THAT UP MANY, MANY TIMES OVER AND SLOW  IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND YOU HAVE CLIMATE CHANGE.

YOU KNOW, IT IS ONE OF THOSE BIG REALITIES OUT THERE THAT  WHETHER WE WANT TO BELIEVE IN IT OR NOT IS REALLY  IRRELEVANT, THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT  IT AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE SURE OUR KIDS AND  GRANDKIDS CAN ACTUALLY INHERENT THE KIND OF CLIMATE  AND THE KIND OF PLANET THAT WE ALL GREW UP AND TOOK FOR  GRANTED.

>> Laura: I LOVE SEEING CCC  PROJECTS AROUND NEW MEXICO.

I GET EXCITED.

THE BUILDINGS AT BANDELIER, THE BUILDINGS -- THE LODGE AT  HYDE MEMORIAL STATE PARK.

I AM CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE A  SENSE OF, MAYBE, WHAT THIS 21ST CENTURY CCC WOULD LOOK  LIKE AROUND THE STATE?

>> Heinrich: WELL, I THINK IT  WOULD LEAVE A FOOTPRINT IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS, SOME  THAT WOULDN'T BE OBVIOUS 100 YEARS FROM NOW.

IT WOULD JUST LOOK LIKE A HEALTHIER, MORE PRODUCTIVE  LANDSCAPE AND SOME WOULD BE PHYSICAL.

WHEN I WORKED FOR AMERICORPS AS A VOLUNTEER IN THE 1990'S,  WE BUILT SOME OF THE ENCLOSURES THAT THEN HOUSED  THE MEXICAN WOLF RECOVERY PROJECT AND BREEDING PROJECT  THAT GOT THAT OFF THE GROUND.

YOU GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL  CCC AND LIKE YOU SAY, YOU CAN STILL SEE THOSE FINGERPRINTS  ALL OVER THE STATE.

SO, IN TERMS OF -- I COULD SEE  THESE CCC CORPS MEMBERS IMPLEMENTING MUCH OF THE GREAT  AMERICAN OUTDOORS ACT, WORKING WITH THE BUREAU OF LAND  MANAGEMENT ON THE RECREATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE AT SOME PLACE  LIKE RIO GRANDE DEL NORTE NATIONAL MONUMENT OR REPAIRING  A CAMPGROUND AT WHITE SANDS NATIONAL PARK AND DECADES  LATER YOU WOULD STILL SEE THAT PHYSICAL IMPACT.

THOSE ARE VERY ENDURING THINGS THAT HELP REALLY HOLD UP OUR  ECONOMY FOR DECADES AFTER THEY ARE ORIGINALLY CREATED.

>> Laura: SO, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SPOKEN QUITE A BIT ABOUT  CLIMATE CHANGE, THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER EARLY ON IN HIS  ADMINISTRATION IS PRETTY COMPREHENSION.

I AM CURIOUS IF WE SEE THE SENATE MOVING ON CLIMATE  CHANGE LEGISLATION THIS YEAR.

>> Heinrich: THAT IS CERTAINLY  MY INTENTION AND MY HOPE IS THAT WE WILL RAPIDLY SEE,  AFTER WE GET THROUGH THE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE, THAT WE  ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON A PIVOT TO A SORT OF BUILD BACK  BETTER INFRASTRUCTURE CLIMATE LEGISLATION THAT SETS THE  STAGE FOR THE NEXT FEW DECADES.

THAT REALLY GETS US TO A PLACE OF LEADERSHIP ONCE AGAIN IN  THE WORLD AND TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES WE HAVE  TO PUT PEOPLE TO WORK IN THIS TRANSITION TO MAKE SURE THAT,  ONE, WE ARE TALKING CARE OF WORKERS WHO HAVE DONE THINGS A  DIFFERENT WAY, WITH TRADITIONAL FUELS, AND AT THE  SAME TIME CREATING THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES FOR  EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE TO WORK ON TO MAKE THIS  TRANSITION POSSIBLE.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE FACT  THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE REDUCING EMISSIONS BY 15% A  YEAR, TO BE ABLE TO MEET THESE TARGETS.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, SENATOR.

GOOD LUCK IN THE SESSION THIS YEAR.

WE HOPE THAT YOU STAY SAFE.

>> Heinrich: THANK YOU SO  MUCH.

>> Gene: WHATEVER HAPPENED TO  THE PUSH FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

IT WAS THE HEATED CRY  OF A SWELTERING SUMMER AND NEW MEXICO LAWMAKERS DID DECIDE TO  REQUIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT ACROSS THE STATE TO WEAR BODY  CAMERAS, AS YOU RECALL, BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN MUCH OTHER  ACTION.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT HAS SOME MOMENTUM THIS  SESSION.

THAT IS WHERE WE START.

THE BILL WOULD ELIMINATE LEGAL DOCTRINE KNOWN AS QUALIFIED  IMMUNITY AS AN ACCEPTABLE DEFENSE.

IS THIS A MEANINGFUL STEP TOWARD REFORM?

I WOULD LOVE TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT YOU THINK QUALIFIED  IMMUNITY MEANS AND WHAT THE FOLKS ARE TRYING TO DO AND  DIFFERENCES AND WHETHER YOU HAVE SUPPORT OR NOT SUPPORT  FOR THAT.

>> Edmund: QUALIFIED IMMUNITY  IS A DOCTRINE THAT CAME ABOUT CREATED BY THE SUPREME COURT  AND ACTUALLY CREATED IN THE LATE 60'S.

IT THE LATE 60'S IT WAS CREATED BY THEN WHAT WAS  CONCERNED A LIBERAL COURT OR A WARREN COURT AND IT WENT  THROUGH A DECADE OR SO AND THEN THE CONSERVATIVE COURT,  WHICH WOULD BE THE BERGER COURT, STEPPED IN AND MADE  THIS IDEA OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY A DOCTRINE, THAT MADE  IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR INDIVIDUALS TO SUE AN AGENCY  OR AN INDIVIDUAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.

THIS IS A DOCTRINE AGAIN THAT HAS BEEN DECADES OLD AND  WHENEVER WE TALK ABOUT REFORM, REFORM IS A BIG ISSUE THAT  COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH, IS  THIS A REFORM ISSUE?

WE NEED TO MOVE SLOWLY ON THE  IDEA OF MOVING AWAY FROM QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

I UNDERSTAND THE REASONS, RATIONALE FROM SOME OF THE  TRIAL LAWYERS FROM MOVING AWAY FROM THAT.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE JUSTICE AND OPPORTUNITY TO ENSURE THE  VICTIMS HAVE REDRESS FOR ANY WRONGS BY AN INDIVIDUAL  GOVERNMENT WORKER OR AN AGENCY, BUT THERE ARE ALREADY  AVENUES IN WHICH AN INDIVIDUAL CAN SEEK REDRESS.

THE CONCERN WITH THIS IS THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THE REFORM  IDEA.

IS IT REALLY NECESSARY?

IS IT  THE TIME?

WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SUPREME  COURT'S RATIONALE IN CREATING THIS DOCTRINE IN THE LATE 60'S  DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA AND THEN IN THE EARLY 80'S.

WHAT WAS THEIR RATIONALE FOR IT AND HAS THAT REALLY  CHANGED?

THE QUESTION REALLY REMAINS,  IS THERE A NEED FOR THE CHANGE AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME?

THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THINGS WE CAN DO IN THE NAME OF  REFORM AND THIS MAY NOT BE ONE OF THOSE THAT GETS TO THE TOP  OF THE LIST, AT LEAST AT THIS POINT.

I THINK THERE HAS TO BE MORE DISCUSSION.

LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS CONCERNS ABOUT THIS AND WE KNOW THAT  SOME OF THE CONCERNS ARE THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND IT.

THE WAY THIS BILL IS CREATED IT WILL ALLOW FOR ATTORNEY  FEES TO BE AWARDED AND THAT MAY BE THE INTEREST TO MANY  TRIAL ATTORNEYS.

THE CONCERN IS, IT CREATES  ANOTHER AVENUE FOR LAWSUITS.

THE ENTITY THAT ENDS UP  HOLDING THE BAG ON THIS ARE TAXPAYERS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH A  MEASURE LIKE THIS PASSING AT THIS POINT.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, TED ALCORN AT NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH HAD A  REALLY INTERESTING PIECE THE OTHER DAY TALKING ABOUT HOW  COLORADO, AS WE ALL KNOW, CARVED OUT A QUALIFIED  IMMUNITY DEFENSE LAST YEAR AND IT JUST NOW HAS SEEN IT FIRST  CASE.

A WOMAN AND HER KIDS IN THE  CAR THAT THEY THOUGHT WAS A STOLEN CAR.

THE WOMAN AND CHILDREN WERE PULLED OUT BY GUN POINT BUT IT  HAS NOT OPENED THIS FLOOD GATE OF SUITS IN COLORADO.

SHOULD WE CONSIDER THAT THE SAME EXPERIENCE FOR NEW MEXICO  GOING FORWARD?

OR ARE THEY UNIQUE UP THERE  AND WE ARE DIFFERENT DOWN HERE.

ANY CLUES HERE?

>> Julie Ann: IT IS IMPORTANT  TO LOOK AT THIS FROM A BROAD PERSPECTIVE THAN JUST THE  PHRASE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE BUZZ  WORD EVERYONE IS LATCHING ON TO, BUT WHAT THIS PROPOSED  LEGISLATION IS ADDRESSING ARE THE TYPES OF CASES THAT YOU  CAN BRING IN FEDERAL COURT FOR VIOLATION OF YOUR  CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS.

YOU CAN'T BRING THOSE KIND OF CASES IN NEW MEXICO COURTS  RIGHT NOW.

SO, THIS ESTABLISHES A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE NEW MEXICO  JUDGES AND NEW MEXICO JURIES AND THE COUNTIES WHERE THE  CASES WERE BROUGHT TO HEAR THESE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS WHERE  THE GOVERNMENT HAS DONE SOMETHING TO, YOU KNOW,  PREVENT SOMEONE FROM EXERCISING THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS.

THAT IS REALLY THE POINT OF THIS LEGISLATION IN AN  UNDERLYING WAY.

YES, IT WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO  BRING LITIGATION THEY CAN'T BRING RIGHT NOW AND WE KNOW  THAT LITIGATION REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS TO  ENACT CHANGE IN OUR PRESENT CIVILIZATION.

AND I THINK THAT FOR THAT REASON THE BACKERS WANT THIS  TO HAPPEN.

>> Gene: TOM, TO FOLLOW  DIRECTLY ON JULIE ANN'S POINT, EXCELLENT POINT, A LOT OF  CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS SAY WITHOUT MEANINGFUL LEGISLATIVE  REFORM IT IS UP TO THE COURT SYSTEMS TO SET THE BAROMETERS  OR THE BARRIERS ABOUT WHAT FOLKS CAN DO OR NOT DO.

DOES THIS RING TRUE FOR YOU?

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OFFICERS,  CASE AGENTS, NOT JUST POLICE HERE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT  FOLKS WHO DO ALL KINDS OF GOVERNMENTAL JOBS HERE.

SO WE SHOULDN'T GET HUNG UP ON POLICE OFFICERS CERTAINLY.

YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS OR THE  COURTS ARE JUST GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

>> Tom: YOU TOOK ALL MY POINTS, 1, 2, 3.

YOU BRING UP A GREAT POINT AND WHAT JULIE ANN WAS SAYING,  EVERYBODY HAS THE TALKING POINTS GOING IN ON THIS  PARTICULAR ISSUE.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT CAME OUT OF THE NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS  COMMISSION WHO THIS SUMMER, OR LAST SUMMER, RATHER, WAS  TASKED TO TAKE A LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS NEEDED.

AS A RESULT, NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACT CAME ABOUT.

DIFFERENT TALKING POINTS WE HAVE HEARD, FOLKS ON QUALIFIED  IMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE TIMING, THE VERY DISTURBING  AND BAD EVENTS OVER THE SUMMER, YOU KNOW, A POLICE  REFORM TALKING POINT CAME UP.

BUT THEN AS YOU STATED, IT IS  MUCH LARGER -- IT IS GOVERNMENT REFORM.

TO THINK THAT RIGHT NOW, IF EVERYBODY IS FOCUSED ON  TALKING POINTS, IT IS USUALLY A SIGN THERE IS SOMETHING  DEEPER GOING ON.

WHAT YOU REALLY SHOULD BE  DOING IS PUTTING THE BRAKES ON THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF  LEGISLATION TO GET EVERYTHING FLESHED OUT AND WHEN THE  LEGISLATURE RECONVENES IN DECEMBER TO ADDRESS  REDISTRICTING, THEN PUT THIS ON THE CALL AS WELL TO REALLY  ADDRESS SO WE CAN GET THIS ISSUE TAKEN CARE OF ONCE AND  FOR ALL.

>> Gene: IS THAT ONE KICK OF  THE CAN TOO MANY?

WE DID DO THAT ONCE  PREVIOUSLY.

>> Tom: YEAH.

YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT EITHER WAY.

IT JUST SEEMS RIGHT NOW THERE IS TOO MUCH CONCERN OUT THERE  AND SO I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING THE CASE THAT PERHAPS  SLOWING DOWN AND ADDRESSING IT WITHIN THIS YEAR, NOT  SUGGESTING MULTIPLE YEARS OR EVEN A SPECIAL SESSION IN  JULY, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE, BUT I THINK RIGHT  NOW THERE IS JUST ENOUGH MISCOMMUNICATION AND  MISPERCEPTION ABOUT WHAT THE ISSUES ARE, ONE, AND, TWO,  WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS ARE, THAT IT IS WORTH SLOWING DOWN  JUST A BIT.

>> Gene: WE HAVE SEEN A COUPLE  OF LAWMAKERS, MOE MAESTAS AND STUART INGLE, PARTICULARLY,  TALKING ABOUT CHANGING LICENSING PROCESSES WHICH IS  NOW THE JOB OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT ACADEMY BOARD.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

THAT SEEMS LIKE -- I AM NOT  QUITE SURE WHERE THEY ARE GOING WITH THAT.

BUT IS THAT THE SOLUTION HERE?

IS THAT BETTER, AS YOU SEE IT?

>> Edmund: BASED UPON MY UNDERSTANDING ON WHY  REPRESENTATIVE MAESTAS WANTS TO DO THIS IS BECAUSE IN ITS  CURRENT STATE IT IS MOVING SLOW AND THIS PROCESS IS  REALLY A SLOW PROCESS AND NOT AS EFFICIENT AS I THINK THEY  WOULD LIKE TO BE.

RECENTLY THERE WAS A REPORT  THAT THERE WAS SUCH A BACKLOG OF THE TYPES OF HEARINGS FOR  POLICE OFFICER CONDUCT.

AND MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS  BILL IS THAT IF WE MOVE IT INTO AN AREA OR A DEPARTMENT  WHO DEALS WITH THESE TYPES OF ISSUES, AND SO MANY OTHER  LICENSING AREAS, THEY CAN CREATE A GREATER EFFICIENCY.

IS THAT BEST PLACE FOR IT?

I THINK IT IS PROBABLY SIX OF  ONE AND HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER.

IT COMES DOWN TO EFFICIENCY AS A REASON TO TRY TO MOVE THIS.

>> Gene: ARE THEY ON TO SOMETHING ABOUT THE BETTER  TRAINING?

IS THERE SOMETHING THERE THEY  ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> Edmund: ABSOLUTELY.

TRAINING IS THE KEY.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE HEARING AND  MAKING DECISIONS ON THESE CASES, WHAT IS THE MOST  APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THESE TO BE HEARD?

I HAVEN'T SEEN A MAJOR PROBLEM AND IT MAY BE ONE OF THOSE  THINGS, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, AS THEY SAY, DON'T FIX IT, BUT  THE QUESTION IS MAYBE THIS IS BROKE.

SO WE DON'T WANT TO THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER.

WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IS WORKING AND TRY TO FIX ISSUES  OF CONCERN BEFORE WE MOVE.

EITHER ONE, I THINK, WILL  SERVE A PURPOSE BUT IS IT NECESSARY, I GUESS, THAT IS  THE QUESTION.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, ONE LAST  FOR YOU.

YOU WROTE LAST SUMMER IN SANTA  FE REPORTER SENATOR PETER WIRTH EXPECTED AN OMNIBUS  POLICE REFORM BILL THIS SESSION.

HE WAS QUOTED A FEW PLACES WITH THAT.

WHY DIDN'T THAT HAPPEN?

>> Julie Ann: I DON'T HAVE ANY  INSIGHT INTO THAT BUT I CAN SAY THAT THE TOPICS OF POLICE  REFORM HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTED TO BE ADDRESSED IN A VARIETY OF  WAYS THIS SESSION AND NOT A LOT OF THEM ARE SEEING  TRACTION.

THE REPORTER IS STILL SUING  THE CITY OF SANTA FE OVER TRANSPARENCY IN POLICE  DISCIPLINE RECORDS.

OUR MAYOR DOESN'T THINK THAT  THE CITY OUGHT TO KNOW WHETHER POLICE ARE DOING THEIR JOBS OR  BEING DISCIPLINED WHEN THEY DON'T DO THEIR JOB.

THERE WAS A LEGISLATIVE ATTEMPT TO ADDRESS THIS THAT I  DON'T THINK IS GOING ANYWHERE.

YOU MENTIONED THE BODY CAM  LEGISLATION THAT PASSED LAST SESSION AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN  ANYTHING THAT IS QUITE THAT CRISP IN THIS SESSION.

SO, I THINK POLICE REFORM IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO  CONTINUE TO BE DEBATED AT THE ROUNDHOUSE LONG INTO THE  FUTURE.

>> Gene: ALL RIGHT.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME ON THAT  ALREADY.

THANKS TO ALL.

BACK IN A MOMENT WITH A FEW FINAL THOUGHTS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR, THEY FEATURED THE  EDUCATION FOR AMERICAN DEMOCRACY PROJECT.

A NEW PLAN OUT FROM A PROMINENT TEAM OF 300  EDUCATORS WITH A GOAL OF REVAMPING HISTORY AND CIVICS  CLASSES IN OUR SCHOOLS NATIONWIDE.

IT IS A WONDERFUL IDEA.

TIMELY AND INCREDIBLY  NECESSARY GIVEN WHAT WE HAVE LET SLIDE OVER THE LAST  GENERATION, AND WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING CURRENTLY, A  COUNTRY UNTRUSTING OF INSTITUTIONS AND ADDICTED TO  CORROSIVE DIALOGUE.

IF WE TRULY WANT A CITIZENRY  THAT CAN DEBATE ROBUSTLY AND PRODUCTIVELY, WE NEED TO  INVEST IN CIVIC EDUCATION.

WHAT I LIKE BEST IS THAT IT  GIVES US A CHANCE TO REBOOT WHEN IT COMES TO HISTORY, A  CHANCE TO START ANEW ON WHO GETS TO TELL WHICH HISTORY  STORIES AND FROM WHAT POINT OF VIEW, MOST IMPORTANTLY.

AS THE AUTHORS OF THE PROJECT ASK, QUOTE, HOW CAN WE NARRATE  OUR HISTORY IN WAYS THAT ARE BOTH CLEAR EYED AND HONEST  ABOUT OUR FAILINGS, BUT WITHOUT FALLING INTO CYNICISM,  AND APPRECIATIVE OF OUR ACHIEVEMENTS INCLUDING  FOUNDING BUT WITHOUT TIPPING INTO ADULATION.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TERRIFIC PLACE TO START.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US.

WE LEAVE YOU WITH A LOOK AT  THE SNOW COVERED SANDIA MOUNTAINS.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.