- [Announcer] A production of South Carolina ETV.

- Good evening and welcome to "For The People".

And the third part of our conversation with psychiatrist, Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, on white racism.

We begin by asking her how did the attempted extermination of European Jews help her in her analysis of white supremacy behavior?

- Well, I'll tell you, you know, this is, I think, very interesting history.

I went to Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio as an undergrad.

And my parents, when I graduated in 1957, my parents said, "What do you want for graduation?"

And I said, "Send me to Germany."

That was 12 years after the end of Second World War.

I said, "Send me to Germany."

Because I wanted to live with German people and ask them, "Did you know what you were doing to your neighbors?"

Do you see?

So my parents sent me to Germany.

And I lived in Germany and would talk to German people and would ask them, and all the German people, you know, they were nice, "Frances, come and live at our house."

So that was a very, very important kind of information that people could be nice on the surface, do you see, but they could destroy their neighbor.

It was only later that I kept saying, "Well, what does this term, what does antisemitism mean?

You know, what does this term Semite really mean?"

If you look in the dictionary, the word Semite, they say somebody who speaks a Semitic language.

But you know, every third grader knows you don't define a word with the same word.

And so I thought about that word because, you know, I consider myself a student of what happened in Germany.

Read everything about what was that behavior about.

And so I suddenly, you know, came to the realization or the insight came to me that Semite is from the Latin prefix, semi, meaning half.

And on the northern tier of Africa, where you had, you know, white people, Greek and Roman soldiers coming in and raping African women and producing a mulatto group.

That Semite is the same word, do you see, that we use over here when we say mulatto.

The person who is the mixture of Black and white under a system of white domination.

And so you had some of those persons, you know, going up into Europe, going north.

And so they were in Europe for 2,000 years.

But people looked at them as, you know, no matter how much miscegenation went on further with white people in Europe, they were still being looked at as, you know, like, you're a little bit dark.

Do you see, that you're still colored.

And, you know, if you read "Mein Kampf" and if you read Hitler, if you listen to the Europeans, do you see, they were talking about, Hitler was talking about this is an Aryan state, this is white supremacy, this is going to be pure white people.

And so the people who historically were, you know, products, their genetic roots went back to Africa, do you see?

Many had large noses and their hair still remained frizzy from the genetic material in Africa.

But Europe said, "We can't digest this and remain white."

And so they found themselves killing, do you see?

Germany planned to kill 11 million Semites of the Jewish religion.

They succeeded in killing six.

And I maintain that.

I have what I call the phrase the genocidal imperative, do you see, which is when white supremacy gets pushed, it has to destroy large numbers of people that it classifies as non-white, do you see, as a survival, you know, a cleansing.

Now this is very, very destructive behavior, but I say that it can be analyzed and it can be understood.

And it is incumbent upon everybody.

It's incumbent upon Black people.

And it is incumbent upon white people to understand this behavior.

- Other than the game of chess, are there other games that you feel mirror white supremacy behavior?

- [Dr. Frances] Yes.

- What are they?

- Take all of the ball games.

You see, the ball games are a major preoccupation in the white supremacy system and culture.

And I say that, again, it's the reason in the "Cress Theory", I said that there's a continuous focusing on color, genetics, and sex because it's those that focus on color, genetics, and sex is white genetic survival focusing, okay?

So that in this culture, and we could say that, you know, this area of the world called the United States of America is the highest expression of the white supremacy dynamic, do you see?

Everybody flowed from Europe here.

And so the dynamic that is going on, you know, it goes on everywhere, South Africa, Europe, wherever, do you see?

But this is, you know, a major expression in dynamic.

And over here we have all these ball games.

And the balls I say are representative of the testicles, which are also called balls.

Do you see, the culture says keep your eye on the ball.

Well, at one level it's a ball game.

At another level, it's symbolic conditioning about white genetic survival.

Am I making myself clear?

- Uh-huh.

Go ahead.

- Okay.

If I said, well, what are the two series of ball games that are played in this area of the world, in the white supremacy culture, what would you say?

- Ah.

Ball games?

- There are two series of ball games and you look at it all the time, but- - Basketball?

- Not having, you know- - Basketball.

- No, that's a- - Football.

I'll have to hit it sooner or later.

You can tell how much I'm into sports.

- Okay.

Okay.

The two series of ball games, and we actually are looking at it all the time, but not having decoded the issue of white genetic survival, we don't see at that level, it's large brown and small white.

- [Listervelt] Okay, explain.

- All the ball games fall, the big brown balls are basketball, football, soccer.

The small white balls are ping pong, golf, tennis.

Now I say that the small white balls are representative of white male testicles.

The large brown balls are representative of the Black males' testicles.

Do you see, they're all larger.

And so if you say, well, what ball games are played by the men that are considered, not by Frances Welsing, but by the culture as the most virile?

What games do the men that are considered most virile play?

- They have to be- - Question.

- [Listervelt] They have to be football.

- Do you see the large brown balls?

Do you see?

And that's just like the question, who has the largest phallus, the Black male or the white?

I mean, that's the underlying question in the culture over and over and over again.

And I say that that also, you know, represents a preoccupation with the dominant genetic material, do you see, that the Black male possesses compared to white males.

Do you see, look at a game of billiards pool, do you see, where you have a white ball that knocks all the colored balls under the table.

The last ball that gets knocked in is the black eight ball.

And so at the end of the game, all the colored balls have been knocked under the table and the white ball sits on top of the table.

- And you say, this is no accident.

- Well, no.

Do you see, the brain computer, this, I mean, the brain computer is a fantastic instrument.

Do you see?

And the brain computer says, "What do you want me to do?"

Do you see?

"How can I help you survive?

Tell me who your enemy is.

And then I'll, you know, punch out, you know, basically what it is that you must do."

Do you see?

But these are our brain computers- - [Listervelt] And after a while, you don't really have to think about it so much.

- You don't have to think about it.

You know, like you have it on automatic, do you see?

But at the same time, you must take responsibility for your brain, whether it's on automatic or whether it's on, you know, conscious control.

- [Listervelt] Now how can Black children and adults be taught how- - Lemme just go back.

- Go ahead.

Uh-huh.

- Lemme go back even to the smoking objects.

- Okay.

- Because there are two series of smoking objects in the white supremacy culture.

- Just go ahead.

- Okay, do you see, the same thing.

Okay, big brown and small white.

Do you see, big brown would be pipes, cigars, and more cigarettes.

And small white would be cigarettes.

Now, historic within the culture, cigarettes are referred to as fags, do you see, meaning effeminate.

And I say that these are symbolic, the big brown symbolic of Black male phallus and the small white symbolic of white.

Now, I don't call them fags, do you see, but that is within the white culture itself, do you see?

When it looks at, do you see, phallic symbols, Black male, white male, they themselves refer to the cigarette, do you see, as fags.

- Now gimme the series again, because that is very interesting in terms of the color breakdown with games and the cigarette.

- See the whole issue we had to keep in our minds, you know, like a professor of anatomy, the male genitalia, do you see?

And the phallus, you know, that's where the symbols of the smoking objects come from.

And the ball games, you know, are symbolic of the testicles.

And so these issues are being played out and thought out, for example, if I say what smoking objects do.

The most intelligent men smoke.

The men that are considered most intelligent, what do they smoke?

- Either cigars or... - Pipes.

- Pipes, yeah.

Okay.

- Do you see, I mean, an intellectual male smokes a pipe, a large brown phallic symbol.

The most powerful man smokes a cigar, do you see?

Now, I didn't invent this, but I can, you know, once you decode that the issue is white genetic survival, do you see, then you begin to see this play of symbols that are representative of that.

I mean, it's just like decoding, you know, sun tanning.

It's just like decoding, you know, the white culture says it hates black and it can't stand black, but they love chocolate.

Do you see, constantly taking chocolate into the body, do you see, and saying chocolate, eating chocolate is an erotic experience.

Black people don't think like that, do you see?

But again, it's like, "Well, we have a deficiency, a color deficiency."

And so if you think you have a color deficiency, you will want to put brown substance in your body, do you see, and so from chocolate, all of the major drinks are dark brown or coffee, tea, chocolate, do you see?

It's like when I went to Germany years ago, their favorite candy was a little chocolate baby doll.

And that they referred to as "nigger babies".

That was a favorite candy.

- [Listervelt] And where?

- In Germany, "nigger babies", that's what they were called.

Do you see?

And Germany, recently, not recently, I don't know how long ago, somebody will know.

But Germany, at a certain point, you know, maybe what, 15, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, said, "Well, we are drinking Coca-Cola."

See, even Coca-Cola, Pepsi Cola, all these dark drinks that people who, you know, feel this deficiency.

But Germany said, "Well, we, you know, need to have our own national cola.

Why are we drinking Coca-Cola?

That's from the United States."

And so they developed their own cola.

What do you think they called it?

- [Listervelt] What did they call it?

- Afri Cola.

A-F-R-I, from Africa, has a palm tree on the bottle.

Now, do you see, why would that, I mean, you would think it would be Deutsche Cola, do you see?

But why Afri Cola?

As you know, the major drink to balance out Coca-Cola in that culture?

- How can Black children and adults be taught how to decode white supremacy symbols and language?

- Well, again- - Probably very difficult to... - Well, no, because I wrote about this in the "Cress Theory".

For example, one of the things I focused on in writing about the "Cress Theory" is, you know, white people, large numbers of white people was a preoccupation to talk about Black people are genetically inferior to white people compared, you know, in terms of intelligence, they are genetically inferior.

They are genetically inferior.

That's still being said.

We can't find anybody qualified, do you see?

These are all various ways of talking, you know, for the white population to talk about Black genetic inferiority.

But I say that the reason that anybody would say, you know, if I kept saying, "You are genetically inferior, you are genetically inferior, you are genetically inferior," then you say, "So I wonder why Frances is preoccupied about talking about genetic inferiority?

Per chance, does she feel genetically inadequate?"

Do you see?

And so I say that Black people have to begin to understand white supremacy, the white psyche as a science.

And so that they will understand, do you see, all this constant projection.

Something's wrong with you, something's wrong with you, something's wrong with you.

That this is what they are feeling about themselves.

A person who feels whole doesn't have to, do you see, keep talking about somebody else's inadequate and something is wrong with the other person.

- [Listervelt] Along with that, how do you read the preoccupation and that European scholars have with finding the origin of humanity?

I mean, who else- - Because they can't deal with the fact that actually we had Black mothers and fathers and we are albino mutants from the Black people.

I mean, that doesn't fit with talking about white genetic superiority.

Do you see, and so that, no, we've got to find, there has to be the origin.

But you know, science says, you know, what's the simplest explanation?

And we see the formation of albinos all the time.

I mean, albino mice coming from, you know, albino chickens, albino, even in- - [Listervelt] Albino chickens?

- Sure.

Mm-hmm.

I mean if you look at the turkeys that we eat at Thanksgiving, now, they're all albino turkeys.

They were, you know, big, black birds with, you know, red heads.

And so now, you know, they've developed a mutant.

- After we did a program with you in the early 80s, I was looking at television down in Berkeley County, Pineville, South Carolina.

My folks were plugged down there.

And there was a PSA on which said, quote, "The polar bear evolved from the brown bear."

And my mind went straight back to the conversation that we had.

And it was very interesting to me.

- Well, see, I say that this is, you know, again, I wish I could be the czar in terms of the education of the white population on the planet because I would say, you know, try to get into the mode of respecting yourselves, do you see, as white, and respecting the fact that you are a minority on the planet, do you see?

Stop all of this posturing, talking about other people, do you see, are minorities and other people are supposed to be less than.

Do you see, 'cause that really is demeaning you, it causes you to do very destructive things to other people.

Do you see?

It really is no sense.

So what if you are, do you see, an albino, but I think what happened thousands and thousands of years ago in Africa that when the Black population, for whatever reasons, was producing albino mutants, do you see, that what they did with that mutant population, the same thing that we do today with genetic defective populations or persons.

We put 'em in institutions away from, do you see, there probably is in South Carolina, an institution for genetic defective individuals.

Do you see, you take them out of the breeding group.

And so I think that the Black people in Africa extruded the albino mutants, do you see?

Didn't kill them, but put them out of the, you know, major population groups and just to survive, that population would find itself migrating north where there's less sun intensity.

Because if indeed they were producing, if the Black population was producing large numbers of albino mutants and the albino mutants remained in the Black population, so you had a buildup of recessive genetic genes for, you know, for albinism, then the Black population would not have the survivability, do you see, in an area of the world like Africa.

And I think the same thing happened with the San Blas Indians in Panama.

It's a group of brown people, Indian population in Panama that was producing large numbers of albino mutants.

And so they wouldn't let the albino mutants marry, they couldn't marry in.

So you didn't get a buildup of the albino genetic trait, do you see?

And so, you know, they call them the moon children or the moon people.

And that's still, you know, going on to this day.

So I think that the Black people put the albinos out.

- [Listervelt] This is what you believe.

- I believe that, do you see, in other words, if you try to say, well, how might this have happened?

And it seems in terms of how it has played out behaviorally speaking, because if the albinos were put out and so then they stayed in Europe and became a white population, do you see, by intermarrying with each other, then you would just produce a white population that would still be genetic recessive to the dominant Black population that was the parent population.

And so when we look at what does Rome say?

Rome, the founding of the state of Rome was, you know, the founders of the state of Rome were Romulus and Remus, and they were suckled by a wolf.

Now this means that they did not have their parents, if a wolf had to take care of them, they didn't have their parents.

So now follow this, that European population, hundreds of years later, goes into Africa, takes African people out, brings the African people to the area of the world that we now call the United States and says, "Now you're going to nurse and take care of the white baby."

Do you see, and so then the white population would call the Black population mammy and pappy and auntie and uncle, do you follow what I'm saying?

- [Listervelt] Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

- So that it's as though the Black people put them out and then it was within the white psyche where we are going to now take you out of Africa and make you take care of the whites baby that you had rejected in the past.

So sometimes talking to white people, I said, "You know, maybe we have to take responsibility or I'll take responsibility."

Maybe we were the first child abusers, do you see?

And so when you abuse children, then they end up abusing people.

And so white people are being very abusive to Black people now.

So maybe that goes all the way back in time.

- [Listervelt] Maybe.

Maybe.

- Well, do you see?

But the point is, is that that doesn't mean continue.

Do you see, that doesn't mean well, okay, so if we put the albino mutants out and then they formed a white population in Europe and then they came back and mistreated the Black population that you just say, "Well, let this go on."

No, okay, if we did that to you and you're upset about it, then we're very sorry, but we are gonna stop this injustice that is now going on on the planet because this is not right.

- You practice general and child psychiatry.

From your vantage point, and we've already discussed this, I know, at some level, but anyway, from your vantage point, how is white supremacy impacting on African American adults and children?

- Okay.

- What are you seeing at your office?

- Well, not only at my office, in the society, you see that the white supremacy dynamic, as I have positive is a white genetic survival dynamic.

And white genetic survival depends on checkmating the black king, putting the Black man in check.

When the Black man is placed in check, do you see, through unemployment, underemployment, then the Black family goes into collapse, do you see?

Families have to have mothers and fathers.

If you take, you know, if you take one father out of a neighborhood, do you see, then the child who doesn't have a father can make up the difference with the other fathers.

But when you take 90% of the fathers out by dynamic, do you see, you have really crippled the entire people.

So that when the father is removed and he cannot play the role as breadwinner and the mother play the role as, you know, the support giver of the emotional wellbeing of the children, then you're going to produce certain kinds of behavioral aberrations.

If the mother is forced to be the breadwinner as well as the giver of emotional supports, do you see, then the emotional supports go wanting.

You can produce depression, do you see?

If a mother, you know, if that balance is not there, the father is the breadwinner, the mother is the primary emotional support of the developing child.

If that's not in place, then you can produce symptoms of depression in children.

Now if children are depressed, these are some of the things that they will do.

If children are suffering depression and dependency deprivation, they will become preoccupied with sex prematurely.

And so therefore we get teenage pregnancy.

They will not have the necessary emotional supports to tackle academic work.

So we get school dropouts.

A sufficient degree of depression, somebody says, "Well, here, if you drink this, you won't feel so bad, little boy."

Or "If you take this drug, you won't feel so bad.

You'll feel real cool."

Do you see, and so that's the way I say, that we get teenage pregnancy, we get school dropping out and we get use of drugs.

If you take large numbers of fathers out of a community and male children do not have fathers to model their behavior after and to lean against so that they gain strength and confidence in themselves as male children, then you will have children forming together in gangs, do you see, engaging in destructive activity.

So I see that all of these plays are, do you see, coming about because the white king is, you know, in our analogy, do you see, put the black king in check, and Black people have not understood these dynamics, do you see?

Or they knew something was happening, and they were begging for it to stop, do you see, but it can't stop.

And so I say that now, once we make this analysis of what the dynamic of white supremacy is really all about, then, we have to go into certain kinds of behavior formation and one of the kinds of behavior formations, because, see, now, we have an epidemic of teen pregnancy and there's no way in the world that a teenager can rear a child to emotional maturity.

Do you see, that's not possible.

Okay, so I say that we have to understand that this dynamic, white genetic survival dynamic, that has checkmated at the black king or put the Black man in check, do you see, this is going on.

But if we begin to understand that that is happening and then consciously codify our behavior, this is on the black-sided chess board now, so that I have a rule, no Black woman under the conditions of white supremacy should have a child before she's 30.

No Black male should become a father until he's 35.

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