- [Announcer] A production of, "South Carolina ETV".

- [Narrator] This program is sponsored in part by a grant from the Nubian study group of Washington, DC.

- Or for that matter, the attack that Black male children are subjected to in, do you see?

Subtle attacks.

I've heard white female teachers, you know, talk about a little, "Oh, he's so big.

Oh, I didn't know if he was gonna...", I mean, a 9-year-old.

"Well I didn't know.

I didn't know if he was gonna rape me."

- Good evening and welcome to, "For The People", and the fifth part of our conversation with psychiatrist Dr. Francis Cress Welsing on white racism.

We begin this segment by asking Dr. Welsing, what should Black children be told about white racism?

- That white supremacy is a system of behavior evolved by a tiny minority of people on the planet who are genetic recessive to the majority.

And these behaviors that oppress and hold non-white people down are for the purpose of white genetic survival.

These are very unjust behavior, boys and girls, or children, do you see?

And we have been asking that these behaviors stop, but because they consider these behaviors to be survival necessity, they continue.

So therefore, this is what we must do.

Do you see?

We must learn how to take ourselves very, very seriously.

Do you see?

We must learn how to respect ourselves.

We must learn how to respect one another.

Do you see?

I say even respect white people.

Do you see?

But be aware, that's like if you are on opposite teams, baseball, basketball, football, you can respect the team that's playing against you, but know that that team is playing against you, do you see?

And that ultimately what we're talking about is establishing justice and peace on the planet.

But this is like a war that's going on now, do you see?

And our responsibility is to bring justice to the planet earth.

Do you see?

But it's going to be a very difficult struggle because the people on the other side are very, very much afraid.

And so therefore, they are doing some very, very destructive and negative things.

We must be aware of that.

- Now is there a wrong way to help children deal with white supremacy?

- Well the wrong way is to not deal with it.

Do you see?

A wrong way, I mean, for example, there are many Black children that are in so-called integrated situations that are really being subtly mistreated.

Do you see?

A child will raise their hand, "I've got the answer teacher", and the teacher doesn't call on the Black child.

Do you see what I'm saying?

And so then the child's hands goes down and then they don't respond anymore.

Do you see?

Because they're being ignored.

Do you see?

Somebody might say, "Well okay, in the state of South Carolina, when was the last time in a so-called integrated school that a Black child was the princess in the play?

Or a prince in the play?".

Do you see?

And so to be able to explain to the child the reason that you were not selected was because of white supremacy, it doesn't mean that you are not equal to any princess that ever lived.

Do you see?

But this is what is happening.

And this is why, do you see?

We're sending you to school to learn everything that there is to know, so that you can help eliminate this system of injustice.

But it is here now.

- So it is better to have the child knowing what the problem is- - Right.

- Than to be walking around thinking it's some kind of mystery, not knowing what's going on.

- Well do you see?

Right.

And I think it's, you know, use a situation of a married couple, let's say a man is beating his wife and she is allowing herself to be beaten without saying anything.

Do you see?

Now I say that that's the same kind of situation where you have white people practicing white supremacy, and the Black person said, "Well I don't wanna talk about it, because, you know, they'll get upset".

- But you do have a lot of people like that.

- "And it'll make..." But this is why we're talking about it, do you see?

And why you have to go to the head of the class for allowing this discussion to take place, I consider that to be sick behavior.

It's just like the woman who says, "My husband is beating me".

Do you see?

It could be a white female, "My husband is beating me".

Do you see?

Well then you have to learn how to respect yourself, Mrs. White.

Do you see?

And regard yourself, and you have to determine internally that you are a human being and you are not to be beaten.

Do you see?

So you have to put a stop to that.

Now I'm not saying, you know, get a knife and cut his head off.

Do you see?

But maybe putting a stop means, well, wait a minute, you know, I may have to live in a shelter, but I am a human being deserving of respect and I am not to be subjected to this kind of treatment and so I'm going to move and live, do you see?

Someplace else and, you know, start a life.

Now we as Black people cannot leave, white supremacy is global, so we can't talk about, "I'm going to go to Africa", as though white supremacy doesn't exist there.

White supremacy exists in the Caribbean.

White supremacy is everywhere.

So we have to say, wait a minute, we have to stand our ground.

And we, by changing our behavior and changing our understanding of what is going on in this dynamic, we are going to bring white supremacy to a halt.

- You mentioned Africa.

You know that in Ghana and in Nigeria, there's been a big problem with bleaching cream.

In fact, the Nigerian government, I'm told, banned the use of, banned bleaching cream.

- See all non-white people under white supremacy are taught the first lesson is hate yourself.

So you see in China or you see in Japan, people cutting their eyes so they don't look Asiatic.

Do you understand?

Or, you know, maybe dying their hair blonde, which just as a statement, I hate myself as a non-white person, I wanna look like the people who are in power and who are in charge.

And those are white people, so these illnesses, do you see?

That relate to self image and self concept are very, very common under white supremacy.

And of course, it's a tragedy.

Do you see?

It's the same kind of tragedy that if a white person does not learn how to really respect him or herself, and says, "Well I have to have a tan even if I get cancer".

Do you see?

"So I will look like the other people on the planet who have skin color, and I don't have skin color".

I said that that's psychological sickness.

And that person needs to be helped to respect him or herself, but not at the expense of somebody else.

Do you see?

Where I can only see myself good because I'm looking at the people that I have caused to be degraded.

- When it comes to our relationship, the relationship that we have with our Black skin, do you see improvement?

Or what do you... - Well see now we gotta stay in- - Go ahead in.

- We gotta keep- - Go ahead, go ahead.

- We are still on the chess board, do you see?

Where the white sided chess board has won the last thousand tournaments, right?

Do you see?

That's just the existence of the white supremacy system.

So that Black children are being... You know, Black people watch more television, we're told, than anybody else.

And so Black children are just looking at white supremacy, white supremacy, you know, all the soap operas, white supremacy, white supremacy, white supremacy.

And so Black children, if you give them a choice of two dolls today, then you'll have large numbers of children, "I want the white doll.

I don't want the Black doll, I want the white doll".

Do you see?

So this is evidence.

But we have not been teaching counter white supremacy think, so to speak.

I mean, there's white supremacy think, and there's gotta be counter white supremacy think, and I'm not talking about hating white people, but counter strategy.

Do you see?

Where we are not on the case constantly and continuously.

Helping Black children understand how white supremacy works, helping them to regard themselves highly, to love being Black, to love their hair like it is.

Do you see?

We have, "Well I thought we were integrated.

Well then that meant that I'm white".

I mean, this is, do you see?

That was... - Dr. Asa Hilliard said in a conversation to me a couple weeks ago by phone that he was in Buffalo, New York doing some consulting work with the school system there.

And he said that he walked into this classroom and saw this white teacher with blonde hair, and the Black children were around, standing around her while she was doing some work.

- Fondling her hair.

- Just fondling her hair.

- Okay well that's the little Black child who's given the Barbie doll after seeing all of the white images on television.

Do you see?

I mean, just imagine what is going on as the brain computer tabulates image.

Do you see?

Where you see, you know, all the white images all dressed up, and then you have, we have a city under siege or something, and all you see is the Black people up against the car, handcuffs behind their back.

Do you see?

Having committed a crime.

I mean, the majority of News Inc and the majority of images on television about Black people is negative in the context of a white supremacy system.

Do you see?

I mean, I haven't, I don't see any shows saying, "Well we have this outstanding producer of Black television programs, Mr. Listervelt Middleton in Columbia, South Carolina.

I mean, do I see that when I turn on the television?

- Oh, if you do, let me know.

- Right.

(Listervelt laughs) - You know?

- Do you see?

And so, you know, the children are being indoctrinated, hate yourself.

- Is it ever appropriate for Black parents, African American parents, African parents.

- Africans in America.

- Because this program will air in Ghana.

Is it ever appropriate for us to shelter our children to some extent from white supremacy?

- Well, yes.

For example, in school situations, you know, where little kindergarten children might be, you know, shunted to the side and to the back and the little white children are up in the front, I think that that's atrocious to subject a young child to that.

I think it's incorrect.

I think that parents should be aware, "Wait a minute, I don't want this happening to my child".

I mean, you know, imagine a little 5-year-old, a little 4-year-old, a little 3-year-old, and do you see?

That is not being validated, that that is a tragedy.

And so I think that, or for that matter, the attack that Black male children are subjected to, in, do you see?

Subtle attacks.

I've heard white female teachers, you know, talk about a little, "Oh, he's so big.

Oh, I didn't know if he was gonna...".

I mean, a 9-year-old.

"Well I didn't know.

I didn't know if he was gonna rape me."

Do you see what I'm saying?

Now that's just horrendous.

That's just horrendous.

And so I think that, you know, white people need to be made aware because there may be white people say, "Gee, I don't really want to do this".

Do you see?

But we have to be able to talk about these issues for them not to do it.

Do you see?

But certainly Black people have to be aware.

- Do you think- - That this kind of thing is happening?

Do you see?

The children, I mean, if you look at the suspension statistics, I don't know what they are in North Carolina, do you see?

But in integrated school settings, I'm from the District of Columbia and the surrounding suburbs, do you see?

Where you have Black and white children together.

The suspension rate for Black children is far higher than it is for whites.

But nobody looks at what are these Black children subjected to?

Do you see?

Are they being taught to feel good about themselves or are they in a setting that is controlled by white people where they're teaching, do you see, and talking in a negative and the demeaning way about Black people?

For example, there was a story in our newspaper not long ago where, you know, this is a exercise in one of the curriculum textbooks, to write about a day on the life of, you know, what a day on the plantation.

And so you have all the Black students and white children, white and Black children in a junior high school setting, writing about what plantation life was like.

And when the issue was, you know, brought to the attention of the school authorities by a Black parent, the teacher said, "Well I wanted the children to learn about the economics of running a plantation".

- For what reason, I wonder?

- Do you understand?

(Listervelt laughing) - Would white supremacy, and you have to bear with us, I told you that you have been studying this for 20 years, and so I'm asking questions, nuances, and the same question over and over- - Over and over.

Fine.

- And over again.

Would white supremacy power be as strong as it is today if it was not able to manipulate and force Black people into its service?

- No.

Do you see?

In other words, it's like the relationship between the husband that is beating the wife.

If she says, "Look, I'm not staying here", do you see?

Or, "If you", you know, "If you do it again, you're gonna go to jail".

Do you see?

She has to participate.

And so if Black people and non-white people become sophisticated in their understanding about how white supremacy works so they don't fall victim to divide and conquer, do you see?

And they don't continue in the propagated negative images and concept of self, if all that is modified, white supremacy begins to get weaker and weaker as a dynamic.

- Now you mentioned non-white people, but are non-white people on this planet talking about racism or white supremacy power- - No.

- In the manner, to the extent that African people are?

- Well do you see, under white supremacy, if you're Black, stay back; Brown, stick around; Yellow, mellow; White, right.

So if you take all of the non-white people, all of whom have been subjected to the white supremacy dynamic, the closer you are to white, then you try to say, "Well it doesn't apply to me".

But that's not true.

Do you see?

It does apply.

So to the extent that non-white people, whether they're Black, Brown, Red or Yellow, are engaging in denial, do you see?

About white supremacy, then that helps in its maintenance.

Do you see?

Or to the extent that one group of people who are classified as non-white, do you see?

Say, "Well I'm better because I'm lighter".

Or, "I'm better because my hair is straighter".

Do you see?

That's sick thinking under white supremacy.

Do you see?

It means that I really am not in depth respect for myself as being a person who is made in a particular configuration, who has melanin pigment.

Do you see?

Or helix hair or whatever.

Do you see?

So to the extent that we don't understand, then we, you know, participate in the maintenance of white supremacy.

- I wanna throw out some topics to get your reaction to them.

You've already touched on many of these topics, but Black teenage pregnancy.

- Well I see Black teenage pregnancy as coming about as a, you know, one of the byproducts of the attack on the Black male, and therefore the attack on the Black family.

And inadequate emotional support for children and children going into a state of dependency, deprivation, depression and acting out sexually.

You know, it's like children who are in need of being held on the mother's lap.

If the mother's not available, then the child wants that sensation of comfort.

And so the child will, you know, they'll go out and start touching each other in a sexual way, particularly after looking at television.

Do you see?

Where all you see is sexual activity and in the movie's, sexual activity.

And so the children start thinking prematurely, "Well they look like they feel good.

And so I wanna feel good too".

Do you see?

Or the little girl starts thinking, "I want a little baby because a baby will love me.

I don't have parents who are available to me to give me the emotional support that I need.

Maybe this little baby will give it to me".

But of course that doesn't work.

Do you see?

So we have to understand that fallout.

Or the little boy who is thinking if you, you know, he wants somebody to love him, parents are not available.

Do you see?

Or parents might have been teenagers.

And he also wants somebody to love him.

And so he says to the little girl, "If you love me, you'll have my baby".

I mean, you know, they're into this fantasy that somehow they'll have a love situation and that they're going to be, you know, emotionally caring for each other, but they don't have the slightest understanding about how white supremacy works or what the economics of living under white supremacy and all of that.

And so they are headed for what?

Complete and total disaster.

- AIDS.

- Well... See, I look at AIDS, I'm a physician, and this is one of the most peculiar things that has ever surfaced on the planet Earth.

And I think about when AIDS first was discussed, what did we hear?

It started in Africa.

It started in Africa.

The Black people, you know, ate a green monkey or something, but it started in Africa.

That was what we were told in the system of white supremacy.

Now, you know, that was a lie.

And if you understand and know the history of white supremacy in this area of the world, Black people were given syphilis in the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

Do you see?

Or allowed to believe that they were being treated for syphilis.

Do you see?

And that experiment was conducted by the United States Government Public Health Service and the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta.

- [Listervelt] Now say that again now.

Let me, go ahead.

- You know the Tuskegee syphilis experiment?

- Right, right.

- Okay that was conducted from 1932 to 1972, 40 Years, where Black men were told that they were being treated for syphilis and they were not being treated.

Now this was an organized experiment that was deliberately carried out against Black people.

So that for a Black person not to say, wait a minute, you've got this disease that came out of the blue, and you start talking about it as though it came from Africa.

Do you see?

Which I say that was a lie.

And so I say that it's biological warfare until proven otherwise.

I have to think that.

Why would I not think it?

Do you see?

That's like Jewish people, if somebody came up with some trucks and said, you know, "Get in these trucks, you're gonna be taken someplace where there are jobs".

They're supposed to think Holocaust until proven otherwise.

Why?

Because as Santayana said, George Santayana, "Those who do not learn from history will repeat it".

Do you see?

And so if somebody is gonna project a lie that, I mean, it's just like Hitler talked about the Jews spreading typhus.

Do you see?

He even referred to the Jewish people as viruses.

Now that's white supremacy think.

And so when I hear, you know, here's this unusual virus that popped up out of nowhere and supposedly, and then you're just gonna start talking about it started in Africa, and then you start talking about it started in Haiti.

No, that makes me think, again, that you started it, the people who were doing the talking.

And it certainly would fit in with a pattern that had already existed.

- And of course, there's the- - Do you see?

And again, if the issue is we are a tiny minority on the planet that is in fear of genetic annihilation, then we have to control the numbers of Black and other non-white people.

Do you see?

I don't write the articles that appear in the newspaper that say such things by the year 2080, the majority of the people living in this area of the world are gonna be Black, Asian and Hispanic.

And we ignore this at our peril.

Do you see what I'm saying?

So if that's the kind of thinking, that's the same kind of thinking that will cause people to think, "Well I'm gonna go in my laboratory, we have to get rid of a certain number of these people because our numbers are decreasing".

Do you see?

Or, "Our productivity, our fertility is not as high as their fertility".

And so we've gotta do something about this problem.

- I heard somewhere that the United States, I'm not sure about this, had not signed the, I guess what amounts to- - Anti genocide.

- Non, anti genocide or whatever treaty.

Is that true or what?

- Well I think that that is correct.

And, you know, you see, I say genocide, you know, the destruction of the genetic material of a group of people is an aspect of white supremacy thinking.

Do you see?

If you have the fear that you are going to be overcome genetically by people who are genetically dominant, your brain computer is going to come up with means to reduce the numbers of the people that you are afraid of.

Do you see?

So all of a sudden we have all of these drugs proliferating in the community amongst Black people, and we have all these young Black people with all these weapons.

Black people don't manufacture any drugs.

Black people don't manufacture any guns.

So these things are coming from some place.

Do you see?

And when you can put people on the moon and, you know, have highly evolved technological society, then you can't say, "Oh, we don't know where these drugs are coming from and we don't understand how they get here".

- But as the gentleman on Ted Koppel's program, you were in the audience there, I think there was a statement that more whites are on these drugs than Blacks.

How do you respond to that?

- Well but we don't have, do you see?

White people are not being given guns and shooting and killing each other.

Do you see?

Drugs are, the use of drugs is a symptom of depression.

So drugs are made available.

Do you see?

And depression is the, you know, most important mental health problem in this area of the world, in western culture.

Do you see?

So yes, you have large numbers of white people using alcohol, large numbers of white people using drugs.

Do you see?

But you don't have the destruction of young white males like you have the destruction, do you see?

Of young Black males.

- The United States Supreme Court, of course, has recently handed down a number of so-called civil rights decisions, or some people would say anti civil rights decisions.

And of course, there is the ruling on the flag, permitting the burning of the flag.

How do you read the reaction to these issues, to these rulings?

- Well I spoke earlier about racism moving in a cyclic manner from establishment, maintenance, expansion, refinement.

And briefly, refinement would be what, you know, opening up accommodations, public accommodations, and opening up jobs to Black people.

And so that went on for 25 years.

And so now we have to stop if there's gonna be a continuance of white supremacy.

Do you see?

If you just open the floodgates and non-white people have the same opportunities and privileges as white people, then white supremacy comes to an end.

And so we are seeing in the area of law, if you will, Supreme Court decisions, do you see?

That are reversing, the law went into a refinement of white supremacy and so now it goes back into the establishment pattern of white supremacy, okay?

Now you ask about the flag.

I had written a paper 10 years ago about the symbolism of the flag in the white supremacy system and culture.

And, you know, it wasn't written to be offensive to anybody, it was just looking at different symbols.

And so, again, I talked earlier about looking at the male genitalia where you see the testicles, phallus testicles, and if you look at a lateral view, you see phallus and testicle.

Now if you make an abstraction of phallus testicle, that would be the equivalent of a stick or a post and a flag on it.

Now in many of the white countries, the flags are red, white and blue, red and white, and blue and white.

Now I say that the colors of that flag, do you see?

If you understand the whole genetic issue that the flag, the colors in the flag, I say stand for white skin through which you can see red arterios and blue vein.

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