
Dr. Frances Levine “Crossings: Women on the Santa Fe Trail”
Season 30 Episode 29 | 26m 13sVideo has Closed Captions
An interview with Dr. Frances Levine’s on her book “Crossings: Women on the Santa Fe Trail.”
Dr. Frances Levine’s book “Crossings: Women on the Santa Fe Trail” gives voice to the overlooked, resilient, and fascinating women who traveled this historic route. In South Florida, the Actors’ Playhouse at the historic Miracle Theatre opens with “Sweet Goats & Blueberry Señoritas”, a heartfelt tale of a Cuban American woman at a crossroads.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
Colores is a local public television program presented by NMPBS

Dr. Frances Levine “Crossings: Women on the Santa Fe Trail”
Season 30 Episode 29 | 26m 13sVideo has Closed Captions
Dr. Frances Levine’s book “Crossings: Women on the Santa Fe Trail” gives voice to the overlooked, resilient, and fascinating women who traveled this historic route. In South Florida, the Actors’ Playhouse at the historic Miracle Theatre opens with “Sweet Goats & Blueberry Señoritas”, a heartfelt tale of a Cuban American woman at a crossroads.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
How to Watch Colores
Colores is available to stream on pbs.org and the free PBS App, available on iPhone, Apple TV, Android TV, Android smartphones, Amazon Fire TV, Amazon Fire Tablet, Roku, Samsung Smart TV, and Vizio.
Providing Support for PBS.org
Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipFrederick DEMOersley Fund, New Mexico PBS Great Southwestern Arts & Education DEMOwment Fund, and the Nellita E. Walker DEMO for KNME-TV at the Albuquerque DEMOunity Foundation.
.New Mexico Arts, a division of the Department of DEMOural Affairs, and by the DEMOonal Endowment for the Arts.
and DEMOers Like You.
>> DEMO Levine: It's staggering the realize the amount -- FRAN LEVINE'S BOOK "CROSSINGS: WOMEN ON THE DEMOA FE TRAIL" DEMOS VOICE TO THE OVERLOOKED, RESILIENT, AND DEMOINATING WOMEN WHO TRAVELED THIS HISTORIC ROUTE.
>> DEMO Levine: and it told me somthing about the way in which African-American DEMOn had been written out of history but are still so present in the DEMOory of The Santa Fe Trail.
IN SOUTH DEMOIDA, THE ACTORS' PLAYHOUSE AT THE HISTORIC MIRACLE THEATRE OPENS DEMO "SWEET GOATS & BLUEBERRY DEMORITAS", A HEARTFELT TALE OF A DEMON AMERICAN WOMAN AT A CROSSROADS.
IT'S ALL AHEAD ON COLODEMO DEMON ON THE SANTA FE TRAIL >> Faith Perez: Fran, DEMOk you for joining us on Colores today to DEMO about your new book, Crossings: Women on the DEMOa Fe Trail.
What DEMOired you to write this book?
>> Fran Levine: I think I've DEMO writing this book all of my DEMOessional life.
I was an archaeologist in DEMOa Fe, and I always liked the topic of what happens DEMO people of different cultures meet.
But I was DEMOing on a site, um, right outside of Santa Fe, and I DEMOd this pot shard that was of DEMOican manufacture.
And, it was fascinating to me what DEMOened when New Mexicans and DEMOourians met, um, in this trade.
But DEMO I moved to Missouri in 2014, it was, um, there that I started finding so much documentary DEMOrial.
But I was I was DEMOly perplexed by why we knew so little about women on the Trail.
And there were many, DEMO lists of women who had DEMO across the DEMOl.
And so, I wanted to find the stories, the actual stories, not the stereotypes of women who came acrDEMO >> Faith Perez: Who were some of the women DEMO you wrote abDEMO >> Fran Levine: You DEMO, I wrote about many women, some as small vignettes.
And DEMOe were some, like Maria Rosa Villalpando Sale Dit Lajoie.
DEMOt there in her DEMO is the history of cultural contact.
She was a young DEMOn in Taos who was captured by Comanches in a raid on the Villalpando DEMOound in August of 1760.
She, lost her mother and her husDEMO in that raid.
Her child was separated DEMO her, and she was then taken DEMO Ranchos de Taos to one of the Comanche camps in DEMOhern Colorado.
From there, she was sold to the Pawnees, and DEMO she was bought by one of the first DEMOers, and fur traders, in St Louis.
So, between 1760 when she was DEMOn, and 1768 when she DEMOved in St Louis as the wife of a trader.
It's a phenomenal story.
She lived to be over a DEMOred, and um, raised a family of some prominence in St DEMOs.
So, she went from being a captive to a creole.
And that tied DEMO research I had done on the Comancheros.
It DEMO into the folklore of DEMO, and to the persistence of that identity as Comancheros and the Comanche dance that's DEMO in DEMO every year.
I've attended that dance, and she was a footnote in an 1839 DEMOication on the Santa Fe Trail.
Josiah DEMOg wrote about a woman who lived in St Louis, who is well known to Santa Fe Trail DEMOelers for the tale of woe DEMO she wanted to tell everyone.
So, she was a really marvelous person to write DEMOt.
Probably many, people who have read stories about the DEMOa Fe Trail, have read Susan DEMOby Magoffin's diary "Down the Old Santa Fe Trail into Mexico."
And, DEMOn was the wife of the trader Samuel DEMOffin.
They came west, um, DEMO Independence, with the Army of the West, and Susan was, DEMOioned herself, the first woman to cross on the Santa Fe Trail.
DEMO, she wasn't exactly the first, but her DEMOnal is really one of the first, firsthand accounts that we have.
I DEMO't write as much DEMOt Susan as I wrote about the relationship she had with her maid, DEMO.
Susan was a 17- year-old bride when she DEMO across, and she is um, she is a woman of DEMOendous privilege.
She's a woman from Kentucky of, uh, DEMOhern sensibilities.
She has an enslaved maid with DEMO And so, I wrote about that unequal DEMOtionship, um, because DEMO African American women came across the Santa Fe DEMOl, and we know so little about them.
But we know quite a bit DEMOt Jane from Susan's perspective.
And so I DEMOe about both the tensions between DEMO and the relationship between them.
Um, DEMO're a very companionable moments when they hike on the Trail, and DEMOe their cabin, their carriages.
There are DEMOnts when Susan is DEMOrly frustrated with Jane for not being a compliant, enslaved woman, a compliant DEMOant.
And, um, that tension between Susan and Jane DEMOts as the Army of the West leaves Santa Fe and marches DEMOrd Mexico.
Susan talks DEMOt her own anxiety.
She talks about her own fears about DEMOicans entering Mexico.
But she's very, very, um, angry DEMO Jane.
And she doesn't DEMOgnize at all that Jane may be facing some of those same DEMOions.
So, it was a, it was a, I wrote about that relationship more than I wrote about, um, I wDEMO about DEMOn herself.
Um, and it told me something about the way in which African DEMOican women had been written out of history, but are still so present in the DEMOory of the Santa Fe Trail.
I wrote about DEMOa Archibald Holmes.
And, Julia is well recorded for having DEMObed Pike's Peak.
Um she's, she's, DEMOrded to be the first woman to wear the American Reform outfit on the DEMOa Fe Trail.
And the DEMOican Reform outfit was really a kind of dress that suffragists DEMO.
Susan was an ardent abolitionist an ardent DEMOragist.
And the work that she did when she came to live in New Mexico was really DEMOnd suffrage and really around, the abolition of uh, slavery.
She DEMOes about cooking on the DEMOa Fe Trail.
She writes about wanting to, to be DEMOd of some of the women's roles on the Trail.
She wanted to stand guard.
She DEMOed to um, she wanted to do the tasks that men DEMO as well.
She wanted to walk the Santa Fe DEMOl and not just ride in a wagon.
But she writes about the horror that her blooDEMO and her, her her DEMOit caused by not conforming to the standards of DEMOican beauty.
So, I was much more interested, less in her clothes, DEMOough I have to DEMO I would wear the American Reform outfit now.
It's, it's quite a, a stylish DEMOe.
But I think we need to remember Julia Archibald Holmes for more DEMO what she DEMO, but for the causes that she fought for.
>> Faith Perez: So, a lot of DEMOerent perspectives on the Trail.
I wanted to know, how do you DEMOonally DEMOte to these stories?
>> DEMO Levine: It was very interesting to me in writing about these DEMOn of feeling, um, a real DEMOhip with them.
Of course, I myself have been an ardent DEMOnist, uh, all my life.
wanting women to be, paid for what DEMO, for their labor.
Wanting, women to be DEMOgnized both for the work that they do in the DEMO and the work they do in the workplace.
So, I DEMOonded to these women of resilience.
I responded to DEMOe women who worked so hard on behalf of their DEMOlies.
One of the women who I think about every DEMO I'm in Santa Fe is Carmel Benavides Robidoux.
Carmel Benavides's family lived in the Sena DEMOa area, and there's a fantastic uh, story of how DEMO property came down in her family DEMO one of the first settlers of Santa Fe, Diego Arias de Quiros.
It's the DEMO where people now go to visit the 109 East Palace.
It's DEMOe they go to eat at The Shed.
Um, but DEMO was Carmel Benavides's family.
Her husband, Antoine DEMOdoux, became a, uh, translator for Steven Watts Kearny in his conquest of DEMO um, of the west.
I often wonder DEMO it was like for Carmel Robidoux at that DEMO to think about her family, now under American control.
Um, and there's, DEMOe, that was one of my favorite DEMOters to write.
She does not utter a word of her own in DEMO chapter, but she is so well recorded in his life.
That was DEMO of one of the challenges of DEMO book, is so few of the women wrote about themselves.
Um, that's what makes DEMOn Shelby Magoffin so unusual.
We learn DEMOt Carmel Benavides from DEMOections that her husband wrote about her.
We learn about DEMOa Rosa Villalpando from all the DEMOuits that she filed.
But the challenges of this research, were enormous, because there DEMO so few DEMOments in women's own hands.
Uh, it was a little bit DEMO doing archaeology.
>> Faith Perez: So, DEMOng your research, did you come across any, like, lesser- DEMOn aspects of DEMO on the Trail that were surprising to you?
>> Fran Levine: When I DEMOted my research on The Trail, um, I had a very Santa DEMOentric focus, okay?
I was looking at those things DEMO had changed Santa Fe, but what I came to realize was how DEMO Missouri was also changed.
I was surprised to DEMO so much of the Santa Fe Trail in St Louis.
So, seeing DEMO of those early daguerreotypes of the of the DEMOs of the Mississippi, seeing the lineup of one DEMOr the other of steamboats taking materials across to the heading of The DEMOl, was such a surprise to me.
When I first moved to DEMOouri, I went to Arrow Rock.
I went to to Franklin.
I went to DEMOpendence, looking for the beginning of The Trail.
DEMO I realized that there are many beginnings of the Santa Fe DEMOl, depending on what you DEMO bringing.
I was surprised to find the wagon makers.
I DEMO, I knew the wagons were made in Missouri.
I knew the mules were raised in DEMOouri.
But it was actually still finding the evidence of DEMO, uh, and DEMOizing that without the wharves of the Mississippi River, we wouldn't DEMO had the volume of trade goods.
It's DEMOgering to realize the amount of trade goods that went DEMO the eastern United States, the Midwest United States, DEMOss to New Mexico, and then on to California.
>> Faith Perez: What do you hope readers will take away DEMO Crossings, and why is it important to DEMO these DEMOn's stories?
>> DEMO Levine: Women were there.
Women were there on The Trail.
They were there in building the American DEMO in so many different ways.
They were the teachers, DEMO were the mothers, they were, uh, they were the DEMOs.
But they also came across with their own DEMOcy.
So, I want people to know particular women's stories.
I DEMO to get away DEMO the stereotypes and the generalizations, and know some of the very specific DEMOies of women.
The Madonnas of the DEMOa Fe Trail are in, or the Madonna of Western DEMOls, are in several states across, the US.
And when I saw DEMO I'd say "Yeah, but DEMO're all the same."
They're a stereotype of DEMOn.
And what I wanted was to know the details of women's lives on The Trail.
Women's DEMOs in the American West.
And I think that DEMOsings, um, lets us see the DEMOal experiences of real women.
I have a friend who always tells me that I should DEMOe fiction.
DEMO these are such great stories that I should write fiction.
And I say, DEMO You should read the stories of true women in the DEMOican West."
A DEMOTIFUL STORY Pepperoni DEMOa!
[Doorbell rings] Ma'am?
Can you stop ringing the doorbDEMO You're gonna DEMO up my -- Good!
Can we just go back to the DEMOry scene at the beginning?
This play might help its audiences DEMO of reach some kind of different understanding DEMOt Miami, about where they DEMO, about what they, where they'd like to live, what is home to DEMO, about their own family and their past, 'cause DEMO play also has a very human story about forgiveness and DEMOrational differences.
The heart of the main character DEMOngs to Miami.
It was born here, it was created DEMO, and it was, you know, baked here.
DEMO too sweet.
I told you.
DEMO can I say?
Cubans love their sugar.
I'm Richard Blanco, DEMO known as DEMOrdo de Jesus Blanco.
My DEMO is Vanessa Garcia and I'm the cowriter with Richard Blanco And I'm DEMOiter with Vanessa, the wonderful Vanessa DEMOia on "Sweet DEMOs & Blueberry Senoritas."
I DEMO, I think we were an amazing team, you know, on this and it was DEMOly, DEMOly fun to do.
DEMO a story that, of course, is very near and dear to her heart, as DEMO as a Miamian, right.
We first took individual characters each I would DEMOe a scene and then she'd DEMOe the next scene.
And then, eventually, we were writing DEMO each other.
And I'd bounce off of DEMO and then she'd bounce off what I had.
So, it became DEMO much one piece.
So, it didn't feel like he was writing one DEMOg and I was writing another.
We DEMO just writing one piece, which was really, DEMOly great.
It was inspired by questions of home, belonging and identity that have always been DEMO of my work, of my poetry and my memoirs.
DEMOng moved to Maine for 15 years and thinking about DEMO landscape versus the Miami I grew up in, and DEMOly just thinking about how we negotiate home.
DEMO did that mean for us?
DEMO also in a sense, the families that we make and the communities that we DEMO in unexpected places.
The DEMO is about a Cuban American woman who has DEMOd to Maine.
She has an estranged relationship with her mom and she's in DEMO place of deciding whether DEMOs gonna go back to Miami or not.
Involved in all of that, is a great big sort of DEMO for forgiveness.
And so, the play at the end of the day, is really about family and found famDEMO and what all of that means.
The premiere, the origDEMO commission was from Portland Stage in DEMOland, Maine.
DEMOing a second production is so important and that DEMOi is doing that second production is so DEMOrtant.
So, it gets to this sort of like come home DEMOre it goes out into the world and it's just this great thing 'cause it's sort of like all of us, you DEMO.
It's definitely me and Richard.
I DEMOk for such a big immigrant population that we DEMO here, but also myself.
I mean, even if you're a child of DEMOgrants, we still struggle with so many different questions, and so DEMO different joys as well of our cultures.
But there's DEMOys a DEMOney involved of what does that mean.
And so, to have this in Miami, it's really DEMOresting because Miami is like reverse acclimation.
It actually gets DEMO and more DEMOrse and more and more complex, versus the whole idea of the melting pot DEMOe everybody settles into like, you know, a status quo.
DEMOg part of this theater is very, very exciting.
It's a visual and sort of like DEMOtfelt staple of our lives, you know.
I DEMO very personal connections to the DEMOe.
I mean, I have so many stories in here from when it was a movie theaDEMO So, I DEMO memories of actually being a little kid here.
But the fact DEMO there's this landmark place that still has that connection to home, DEMOt, to memory.
Memory is home, right.
And so, to have the DEMOical place there also is doubly DEMOial because you can actually just walk back into that DEMOry.
I mean, one of the most exciting DEMOgs is to have, you know, our play out there on the marquee, which is so DEMOtiful and historic.
And I'm so, you know, it's DEMO one of those things that thank God it still exists, and it looks like that, you DEMO.
And it's very much a part of our Miami DEMOory.
So, it is very exciting to have it here.
People DEMO very special when they come here.
They have memories of DEMOng here in DEMOr youth or bringing their children here.
And it's just something that's fun to DEMO people say, you know, I remember DEMOg here for, I remember being here for.
And now I'd hear them say, oh yeah, I've DEMO here for three, four, five, six of your DEMOs.
Professional regional theater is a theater where everyone on our stage is either DEMOring to be a professional and or DEMOady are, whether they're union members or nonunion DEMOers, whether they're just outta DEMOege, whether they've been a veteran for years and years and years.
So, you're putting a whole bDEMO of pros together.
It's also self- DEMOuced.
And it kind of DEMOks to the community that you live in, the town and the area that you live in, the types of DEMOs you do.
I always like to say we're a regional professional theater in DEMO community, DEMOead of a community theater.
We're celebrating the DEMO anniversary of the Miracle Theatre this year.
And DEMO's another story unto its own DEMOuse had we not created that partnership with the city of Coral Gables right after the hurricane, this DEMOding would've been sold to DEMOount retail.
We came upon the Miracle Theatre in 1994.
And in 1995, we DEMOted a 45year lease.
And it was Actors' DEMOhouse obligation to build and restore the theater, DEMOh was an old movie DEMOce in four stages.
And we had to demolition and rebuild it DEMO the beautiful three stage auditorium it is right now.
When we came in DEMO in 1995, this room that we're sitting in right now, this sDEMO DEMO't exist.
The movie screen was actually further back.
DEMOe we are right now was actually seats.
There were yellow and red burlap curtains on the side DEMOs.
You didn't even see any of the plaster work.
DEMO plaster work we DEMOovered by finding the blueprints from the 1948 DEMOd.
We felt very strongly that as much as we could keep the historic elements of the original DEMO Miracle Theatre movie palace, even though we're DEMOing it into a DEMOorming arts center, the better we were.
So, the lobby and the DEMOwalls, the curves and the columns, and just the feel of the place, it was DEMO exciting to restore.
I remember when I was DEMOt working on this, I felt like we were breathing new DEMO back into the building.
Like recreating, but DEMOding anew also.
We do training all DEMO-round for children from five years up to the golden DEMOs.
And all kinds of training, film and acting and musical theater.
All DEMOlopmental and a lot of fun.
And DEMO we have a conservatory.
And then seeing some of those DEMO go on to performing DEMO colleges.
And then seeing those kids go on to Broadway, and DEMO, and television.
And if DEMO go into other careers, they're just better at what they do from the DEMOrience in theater.
It's a DEMOt feeling to be able to make that difference in the DEMOunity and people's lives.
We are dedicated to the honor of what has DEMO given to us all these years, as a nonprofit, it's very important as a founder of DEMO organization, as a donor, and a hard DEMOer.
And that, you DEMO, we see the success of this long range.
A jewel like this, you DEMO, needs to be appreciated by the community and supported.
When you sit DEMO and talk about it, that's the legacy.
Talk about the legacy DEMO other people are going to have such wonderful full DEMOs because they came and saw a play that meant DEMOthing to them.
That's the legacy.
We're really DEMOd that we're doing DEMOet Goats & Blueberry Señoritas."
We have two very talented DEMOors, and this is their hometown.
It's a beautiful story.
It, it has so many of the DEMOents of great DEMOter because it is funny, and it is dramatic, and it is DEMOtfelt.
I don't want to call it a tearjerker, but there are those moments DEMO.
But it's really just about so much discovery, you know.
Good, DEMO moving, keep moving, keep DEMOng.
Everyone in this town knows someone who has gone through the kind of thDEMO that DEMOen in this play.
So, it can be that they're hearing DEMOthing that happened to their neighbor or to a friend.
DEMO comes Bea.
Time of her life.
Wondering why things feel so good.
What is DEMOg with me?
For me it was so important to be able to play this CDEMO character and to dip into my roots, which is so DEMOliar to me, and DEMO my heart and share it with the theater world.
And just knowing that we're all from DEMOywhere now.
It's always an honor and a pleasure to tell the DEMOy of my roots and my culture.
DEMO a universal theme, separation of families and the pain that DEMO causes.
In this case, we see it through the prism of the Cuban DEMOpora.
So, it's particularly DEMOng for me to help tell the story DEMOuse I'm a Cuban American myself, and I'm an immigrant.
I came from DEMO.
I was born in Cuba.
From the DEMOnning of the play, our main characters sort of struggles with, you know, always there, is DEMOe, if only DEMOe were a place I could sort of be all of me, you know.
And she sort of finds this moment where in the DEMOng of the sweet goat, it's sort of not a place, but DEMO thing that she's DEMOng in reconnecting through the food with who she is.
It sort of all comes together in this wondeDEMO way.
It's like, here we DEMO who we are and who we really are, and we can just DEMO of be together.
And this brings me DEMO to Miami because I feel like having been raised here, that's how I was raised.
You know, it feels DEMO American to me in the best way possible.
So, I feel like DEMO play is an American play.
It's not a Cuban DEMOican play, it's an American DEMO.
And that is very DEMOrtant to me because I feel that that's who we DEMO And I think that when we can get there, that'll feel like success.
You know, if we're DEMO, this is an American play, "Sweet DEMOs & Blueberry Señoritas" with 'señoritas' in the title is an DEMOican play.
The award winning arts and culture series ¡DEMORES!
is now DEMOlable on the PBS App, DEMOube, Instagram, Facebook and at NMPBS.org.
From classic episodes to DEMOd new shows, ¡DEMORES!
is everywhere.
Watch now on your DEMOrite NMPBS platforms.
Funding for DEMORES was provided in part by: Frederick Hammersley DEMO, New Mexico PBS Great DEMOhwestern Arts & Education Endowment Fund, and the Nellita E. DEMOer Fund for KNME-TV at the Albuquerque DEMOunity Foundation.
.New Mexico DEMO, a division of the Department of Cultural Affairs, and by the DEMOonal Endowment for the Arts.
and Viewers DEMO You.


- Arts and Music
The Best of the Joy of Painting with Bob Ross
A pop icon, Bob Ross offers soothing words of wisdom as he paints captivating landscapes.












Support for PBS provided by:
Colores is a local public television program presented by NMPBS
