(piano intro) - Hello, I'm Nido Qubien.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today is a leader who has spent his career inspiring young minds.

His name is Dr.

Edward Croom, and he's the president of the University of Mount Olive.

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With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Dr.

Edward Croom, I gotta tell you something you already know.

You're the president of the University of Mount Olive.

When I first came to America, I enrolled in Mount Olive.

It was a two-year school.

It was two great years of my life.

The people in Mount Olive are fabulous people.

And the school, of course, has survived many years through thick and thin.

But you have taken it to new heights of excellence.

Give us some information about the University of Mount Olive.

How many students, how many branches, and so on.

- So as you know, the University of Mount Olive was started by the original Free Will Baptist.

And next year we're gonna be 75 years old.

It's hard to believe.

I'm not sure how old it was when you went there, but things have really changed over the campus over the last many years.

I listened several months ago of you giving a speech, and you said you couldn't figure out why they let you go there.

But you were from the Holy Land, and it was a Christian school.

Maybe they thought you were a Messiah or something.

But I'll never forget that.

- That's a joke now, man.

- That's a joke, that's just a joke.

But it's a, you know, the University-- - They were gracious to me because I could hardly speak English, didn't have anything to offer, but they were very gracious to me.

- You know, and that's who we are.

You know, the university has not lost that.

You know, we're located in Eastern North Carolina in a very agriculture-related area.

But it was started by the original Free Will Baptists to prepare people to spread the word of God.

And we've sort of gone back to that.

You know, we've had, interesting note, we've had 140-some students accept Christ on campus this past semester, which is interesting, and have been baptized.

But we have a little over 1,000 students on campus and the traditional students-- - That's double what-- - It's unbelievable.

- It was when you got there.

- It was, well, it's not double since I've been there, but it has grown tremendously.

And we have four basic schools.

We have the School of Agriculture and Biological Sciences, being in the hub of agriculture world with Smithfield Foods and Butterball and House of Rayford and all of those.

And we have a large number of our students are coming because of agriculture.

We have the Tillman School of Business named after Robert Tillman, CEO of Lowe's, who was an alum from there.

And we have the School of Arts and Sciences.

We've engaged in a nursing program, put in a Sim Lab.

And now we have the School of Education.

You know, I'm a little different.

A lot of schools are cutting back on education, but I believe education is a ministry.

And we've offering our first doctoral program this year in educational leadership.

So things are really happening, and we're proud of what's going on at University of Mount Olive.

- You, of course, went to NC State for undergrad and grad, and then you went to Nova Southeastern University for doctorate in educational leadership.

But you also were superintendent of schools in Johnston County.

- Right.

Yeah, that was, so most of my career was in Johnston County.

I left a few years.

My dad- - But you were born and raised in Wayne County.

- Wayne County, about 25 minutes from Mount Olive.

- Like Goldsboro?

- Pikeville area, Nahunta area.

My fellows and I, my wife and I still live there.

But yeah, I was a vocational agriculture teacher and was raised in a tobacco, I mean, a farming environment.

My dad was an ag teacher.

And so I stayed in that, became high school principal of South Johnson High School.

That was back in the late '90s.

And went on to really never applied for a job.

It just sort of fell that way.

But I was either assistant superintendent, deputy superintendent or superintendent in Johnston County for about almost half of my career.

- You know, Ed, it's tough to be president at a relatively small to medium-sized school in this ever-changing, ever-competitive world we call higher education.

But somehow you've managed to do it.

A story that I know, and you can correct me on the details, about the gentleman who lived in the Mount Olive general area.

And every day he would drive by Mount Olive and see the students there and liked what he saw in the caliber of the students.

And then one day he decided he's gonna give you $10 million.

Is that a true story?

- Yeah, well, it was 5 million, but it was, yes, and you know, we, it's all about relationships, all about relationships.

And, you know, I believe that, and it was that way in the K-12 environment.

You know, when you're dealing with elementary and middle school students, taxpayer money, an elected school board, you sort of have a trifecta for a lot of interesting things to happen.

And we were the seventh largest district in the state of North Carolina.

- Oh, really?

- So you learn real quick how to build relationships.

And it's all about culture.

And when, you know, I went to Mount Olive, you know the story, I only went in an interim role.

I wasn't planning to stay very long and things happened.

And you told me one day that if it weren't careful, it's gonna be hard to leave.

And that's what happened.

- You fell in love with them and they fell in love with you.

- Yeah, and it's just been a, it's been a, but you know, it was rough, you know, right out of the gate, we had to cut $5 million out of our budget.

We laid off 38 people, interesting story.

In 2008, I became school superintendent.

And you know what happened in 2008, financial.

- Yeah, it was a big recession.

- Yeah, and I had, I laid off 80 people who I worked with for years.

I knew those people.

- It's always tough to do that.

- It's always, and I always said, you know, if I ever have to do that again, I hope I don't know 'em.

Well, I get to Mount Olive, I didn't know hardly anyone and then had to lay off 38 people.

And I tell you, it's no easier.

But you have to make those decisions.

- How did you identify those people?

- So we went through all of our programs.

And you know, in a world where a lot of private schools are adding programs, Mount Olive was selling theirself.

Hey, we've got, we have a hundred degree programs.

Well, Mount Olive can't afford a hundred degree programs.

- And doesn't have the critical mass of students to make that.

- That's exactly right.

So, you know, we cut back on our programs and we do 'em all well.

And you know, we're a hands-on university.

We get our hands, what's really good about all of our schools, you know, we're engaged in the community.

Part of our focus is, and so I have this little saying, every day we focus, we dream, and we serve.

You know, every day I start out in the morning early and I focus on the day, focus on my Bible study, my reading.

And then I dream, you know, what can happen today?

What can happen in the future?

And it was that way when I was in the school district.

But to me, and the Bible's full of, God spoke through many, many dreams.

But then we gotta serve.

You know, even the Great Commission, we skipped the first part of that.

It says, go, you know, you gotta go do something.

And so, you know, we try to really focus on what we're doing.

We do it well, we get our hands in it.

And then how can we make the community better?

What can we do to make it a better place?

- What percentage of the students at Mount Olive are from the state of North Carolina?

- A large percent of the traditional students.

We have students from South Carolina.

Just a couple of years ago, we had students from 81 counties out of the hundred in North Carolina.

So, you know, our broadband is spreading out.

A lot of that is in the agriculture world, or either they're in athletics.

But we have students, a good number of students from Virginia, South Carolina, some from Tennessee.

But most of them are from North Carolina into trad program.

- Is that a dangerous thing to do, to have a large percentage of the students coming from a singular state?

I mean, our state, of course, is prosperous and growing, so I can argue against myself for that debate.

But generally speaking, you'd wanna diversify and hedge.

- Yeah.

You know, I think, to me, it's important about what are you offering.

Every school has a niche, and you have to find what that is, and then you have to sell it well, and then you've gotta provide a good product.

And I think as long as we do that, because North Carolina, our niche being agriculture, you know, we don't have a whole lot of competition in the state, in the private sector.

Obviously, we have some state schools that have that.

But, you know, that's continuing to grow.

We just turned, had a groundbreaking on about a $7 million animal science facility.

So, you know, we have two farms that have been gifted to us.

One is the plant science, crop production, soil, potatoes, whatever it is.

And now the new farm is gonna be all about animal science, and we're gonna have a division of large animals, and then a small animal, people love their pets.

And so we feel like, you know, it's one thing to recruit students, and you take 'em out and show 'em a few cows, and to bring 'em to a facility that's extremely nice, you know that very well.

- Is this a preface for a veterinary school?

- Well, you know, that's been a debate.

You know, we do have an agreement right now with NC State University.

They're taking some of our students, as long as they meet a certain criteria straight into the vet school, which is really huge.

And so, but I would really like to see, you know, I'm a dreamer.

- Yes.

- I put my stake out five years, I put it out 10 years, and I'm not very good at getting those things done, but I'm good at seeing it.

- Well, you get some of them done clearly, because the school has grown, has become more stable in many ways.

And Mount Olive has the campus in the town of Mount Olive, but also you have other satellite areas.

- So it's very interesting.

Now, we did, when I went there, so I went, when I went to, started at Mount Olive, 2020, a few months later, of course, there was a president change, and then all of a sudden COVID hit.

And when you had all these satellite facilities, people weren't going to those places.

So we have actually, we have none of those facilities.

- Oh, you've closed them all down.

- We closed them all down.

We brought it all back to- - Those were mostly adult learners?

- They were mostly, and a lot of people went online during COVID because that's all they really knew.

So our competition, we lost our niche in that a little bit, but we're doing some things to reinvent that wheel.

- So you were in RTP, if I remember.

- Yeah, we were in Jacksonville.

- New Bern, maybe.

- New Bern, Washington, Wilmington.

- So that's all gone.

- All that's gone.

- So you have a thousand on campus and another thousand.

Are these all online?

- That's right.

Which I think is, again, it gets back to reducing, yet if your product is good enough and you do it well, I think you attract customers to that.

So I thought it was interesting that we closed, I think it was seven site locations, but our numbers are going up.

- And one of my speeches, Ed, I use this line, I say, "Change is inevitable.

"Change is gonna happen whether you like it or not."

So resisting is not gonna get you anywhere, but transformation is optional.

And so not everybody chooses to transform when they deal with change.

Clearly you have.

You've made some significant, transformational, taken transformational steps.

You closed down these satellite places, you've added online learning.

Online learning is difficult to do, isn't it?

I mean, you have to have certain IT programs and you have certain standards.

You're obviously accredited by SACS and there's pretty determined steps for all of that.

- Yeah, transformation, getting back change, you're right.

People don't mind change as long as it don't affect them.

- Yes, somebody else's problem.

- Somebody else'sproblem.

Transformation is very important, but people, it's all about relationships and trust.

If you know, I'll never forget the day that I called all of the employees into the auditorium.

I said, "Look guys, here's where we are.

"Things are not really good."

And I told 'em, "Here's what we're gonna do."

I mean, I even cut 401k matches, things that are, you know, I sort of jokingly said, "My popularity shrunk like a cheap shirt in a laundry."

You know, but there was a core group that stuck with us and we went back.

- Did you lose students after that?

- Not really.

I worked that one year when COVID hit, we had a dip, but our enrollment has grown, especially on campus every year since we've been there.

And you know, if people trust you, and I hope they do and they believe in you, but it's that way with expanding our outreach.

You know, we have people on our board now that have never been on, CEOs of companies and things of that nature.

And that helps when you're- - To bring counsel and guidance.

- And another real interesting, remember the university was started by the original Free Will Baptist to grow ministers.

Then somewhere way back in time, they went to the liberal arts college, you know, and there was a little bit of discontent in that, but now we're back to growing our ministry program and we're having these young adults come to a knowledge of Christ.

And so it's interesting.

I've been in leadership long enough to see the pendulum always swings.

You know, if you hang around long enough, it'll start coming back.

- The good and the bad.

- Good and the bad.

And so, but you have to have a relationship with people where they trust you.

- What is, you've been in the field of education for a long time and what is it your view about higher ed, not just in North Carolina, but nationally?

North Carolina, clearly we have a wonderful public university system, certainly acknowledged across the land.

We have a, there are 17 schools in that system, including a high school.

And then we have 35 private schools like the University of Mount Olive.

And then you have 58 community colleges.

I mean, we are blessed and gifted in the Tar Heel State.

But what is, you hang around these circles and you are up to date on what is happening in this fear in the sector.

We read so much about some families who say, "I don't need to go to college.

"My kid doesn't need to go to college."

A lot of talk about affordability, access, all of that.

What is Dr.

Edward Croom's view of what's happening in America today?

- Well, you ask about the higher ed piece.

I will tell you there are some times, if there's one thing that keeps me up at night is what's our value add?

What's the, it's expensive to go to school.

I still believe that education, whether it's elementary school or higher ed is a ministry.

I fought for public education for many, many years.

I still do.

I believe in that.

I do believe things have changed, transformed, getting back to that word.

I still believe people need a higher ed, a degree in higher education, but it's gotta be something that is-- - Useful.

- Useful and that you can apply.

Who knows what artificial intelligence is gonna do to our world in the next 15, 20 years.

I've heard some of the interviews you've had on that.

That does make you wonder, but over the course of time, humans have always prevailed.

I still believe that we're positioned to do that, but you have to have a product and a value add for students to come to you.

I think that there will be some more schools to probably close.

- 500 of them in the last 10, 12 years.

- And so you have to have a sense of worth.

I used to tell, this is probably something I shouldn't say, but I used to tell folks all the time, especially when I had so many employees in the school system as long as your worth outweighs your baggage, you're on my team.

The moment that the scale tips and the baggage is greater than the worth, well, it applies to us as well.

- Of course.

- So our sense of worth has to be a lot more than just the negative.

But, you know, like Life Skills School, what you offer, we are hands-on.

We have to have a workforce that's willing to learn but also get their hands dirty because that's where we're headed.

- Mm-hmm.

You know, every school renders a value.

I think your point is, is that appreciated value?

Is that what the marketplace, what families who often sacrifice to send their children to a university, are they getting appreciated value?

Will they get a job?

Will they have a better future?

Will they earn more money?

Can they support their family, et cetera?

Besides growing intellectually and spiritually and other ways?

Well, you know, it's amazing what has happened at the University of Mount Olive.

First of all, you've survived.

That's an achievement.

It's a big achievement.

Many have not, including some good schools.

I think of Birmingham Southern, Phi Beta Kappa School in Birmingham.

They just shut down.

They ran out of money.

And it's still shut down.

You know, the campus is just sitting there.

But you use faith and courage, you use faithful courage to redirect and realign and reimagine and reinvent.

And it seems to be working.

Does the University of Mount Olive get any assistance from, say, the legislature?

I guess special grants and-- - Yeah, so we have, the legislature has been good to the University of Mount Olive over the last several years.

And if they'll pass a budget now, I think there's a little bit, hopefully, sitting there.

But we have expanded our reach again.

We have applied for grants from different foundations that we've been able to get.

Our donor base has really stepped up to the game.

And again, it's all-- - People like to see success.

- That's exactly right.

And one of the questions that's been hard to answer, if somebody says, "If I give you a million dollars, "how long will you stay?"

- Yes, yes.

- You know, and you've even-- - That's going back to your point about trust.

- That's exactly right.

- They trust you, and they wanna make sure that you're there to take care of that investment.

- Be a good steward of it, that's right.

But it's, you know, value is important.

Providing a safe place, one of the great things about the University of Mount Olive, we've been rated as one of the safest universities in the state.

- That's always been the case, really, at Mount Olive.

- Of course, you know, but I tell parents all the time, you know, if you can find it in New York City, you can find it at Mount Olive if you look.

So we try to make-- - Especially if you want good pickles.

- That's a good-- - If you want good pickles, you go to Mount Olive, right?

- Mount Olive Pickles is a very good friend to the University of Mount Olive.

- Yes, indeed.

- And-- - As they should be.

- Yes, that's exactly right.

Well, they have been absolutely very generous to us and a blessing to us in many ways.

- And in your years, how long have you been at the University of Mount Olive?

- Five years.

- Five years.

Did the name change while you were there?

- No, that was in 2014 when it went from Mount Olive College to University of Mount Olive.

- Why didn't it go from Mount Olive College to Mount Olive University?

- I don't know the answer to that question.

It's interesting, a lot of people call us Mount Olive University.

- Yes.

- But I've not, that's one thing I haven't gone back and looked at, why is it the University of Mount Olive?

But you know, it started out as Mount Olive Junior College in the early '50s and for the longest time.

Was it Junior College when you-- - Yes, it was Junior College.

- Yeah, and then it-- - I actually spoke, I gave the commencement address in the one year where it became a four-year school.

- Oh, really?

- The first class.

- Right, yeah.

Well, you know, we've got a lot to be proud of, but I believe and I strongly believe just scratched the surface, you know, and we're really in a unique place.

We're an hour and 10 minutes from the coast.

We're an hour and 10 minutes from Raleigh.

Raleigh, you have the big Research Triangle Park, all the pharmaceuticals, the big business.

I tell people you pull out of the university and turn left, you're headed toward the big stuff.

You turn right, you're headed to the agricultural stuff.

And we just gotta be able to provide students for both areas and believe we do that.

- And athletics, you're D2?

- D2, we have 22 or 23 athletic teams.

- 23?

- Yeah, I think so.

- How many of the thousand students at the University of Mount Olive are athletes?

- About half, about half are engaged in the athletic world.

And, you know, we had graduation Friday.

I have a video on my phone.

We had graduation Friday and Saturday, all the bleachers were gone.

They were put in there in '83 or '84, whenever it was built, and we're putting stadium-style seating in the university.

And so a lot of good things going on.

- I followed your success, and I know that you've had some great strategies.

And you say you're a dreamer who chooses to serve, and you focus on the important stuff.

But you've also executed, and one has to give you credit for that.

So I honor you for that, and thank you for all the good that you do at the University of Mount Olive.

And before that, as superintendent of schools in Johnston County and across our land, thank you very much, Dr.

Croom.

- Thank you.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Funding for "Side by Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by: - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors to over 65 million consumers across 14 states and the District of Columbia.

With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist-- we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist-- leaders in banking, unwavering in care.