Welcome to Brazos Matters.

I'm Jay Socol and with me once again is senior journalism major at Texas A&M and KAMU student content contributor Macey Litterst.

Hey, Mase.

Hi, Jay.

So you and I continue to explore topics that you said at the beginning of this semester were of particular interest to you and I think this one is at the top of your list, and I'd love for you to explain what that is and why you felt it was so important.

Yeah.

So I studied abroad in Portugal last summer, and it was truly the most amazing experience I've ever experienced.

And so I am just trying to let people know how important it is for students of my age to experience something like this while they're in college, and how life changing it is.

Okay, and how how accessible it is to your fellow students.

Exactly.

Okay, so we brought in the absolute best mind on this topic, a Texas A&M friend of KAMU and now second time guest on Brazos Matters, associate Vice president for global Engagement, Dr.

Holly Hudson.

Hey, Holly.

Hi, Jay.

Hi, Macey.

Hi.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me.

This is exciting.

So, Holly, global engagement is a lot more than just education abroad.

Can you tell me a little bit about what lies underneath the blanket of global engagement?

Yes.

And thanks again for, giving me a softball question to start with.

So the Department of Global Engagement is part of the office of the provost, and, our office is largely, an academic support unit, and we, in theory, are responsible for coordinating, most of the global activities that occur on campus as they relate to students or, academic, pursuits in some way.

So our office, in addition to education abroad, where we send, you know, several thousand students abroad annually, we also have the Office of International Student and Scholars.

And that office is responsible for helping us to bring our international students here from other countries and scholars.

It's a largely compliance based operation.

But they do get around to managing some events and programs to make sure that our international students feel welcome while they're here.

We we have about 6000 plus international students here annually.

So it's, it's, a good population here.

In Aggieland.

We also have global partnerships and initiatives, and this is a unit that manages our international, academic agreement process.

They help us host our delegations when they come here from other countries.

They also do some interesting and new global learning programs.

So, we are now, officially a Peace Corps prep institution.

And that program is out of our Global Partnerships and Initiatives unit.

We run a program called the Global Career Accelerator out of our Global Partnerships and Initiatives unit.

And we have a very robust Aggie Ambassador program that's part of that unit as well.

So, the director of that unit likes to say they're they kind of catch all of global engagement, and in some ways they are, but they're also very creative.

And, a lot of great things happening there.

In addition to those areas, we have a passport office and we do quite a bit of other, you know, events and planning and doing things around campus in the community to support, international education.

Yeah.

Well, I know for a fact that study abroad changed my life last year when I went, why do you think it's so important for students at my age to experience this in their college years?

Yeah.

I mean, I think study abroad is important for a number of reasons.

I would say that it is certainly something that can help you to develop those soft skills.

And soft skills is one of those terms that I think we need to work harder at finding another term for, but essentially meaning, help with intercultural communication, learning how to navigate challenging circumstances, learning how to deal with ambiguity.

Right.

All of those things that I'm sure that you experienced as a study abroad student, regardless of how much you prepared for that experience, I'm sure you found yourself in moments trying to figure things out.

Absolutely many times.

Yeah.

So I think that's, one of the primary, benefits of study abroad.

Also, study abroad is certainly, one of those opportunities for students to engage in learning with people from different cultures.

And, you know, we work in a global marketplace, and students who graduate from Texas A&M are highly likely to work with, teams from around the globe.

And so if you've had that experience of trying to solve problems and work and learn and another culture, then you're going to be better prepared.

So it's it's also something that helps you with your career readiness upon graduation.

And I would say the other part of, you know, the importance of study abroad is really that diplomacy piece.

Education abroad, study abroad started as, really a diplomatic mission.

And that's what we would call academic diplomacy, post-World War One.

The idea being that if you expose people to other cultures that are unfamiliar, through the learning process and through that exposure, hopefully what happens is they become friends and it's much harder to go to war with your friends.

Right?

So hopefully we're also all learning to be tolerant and open minded and engage in meaningful conversations with people that are unfamiliar through the study abroad process.

Yeah.

So I'm glad to hear you mentioned academic diplomacy, because my assumption based on headlines that, you know, we all see every day is that our global community is, a little more fragile in some ways.

And maybe that means some relationships are a little more fragile.

It just feels like at times things are, turned a little upside down.

Is is that something that you and your peers feel, or is that a misperception among.

I think, yes.

In some ways we do feel feel that, you know, but we also feel, a very strong connection to our partners around the globe.

So I think what we read and see in the headlines, is, is accurate and real and meaningful.

But when it comes to relationships, which is what we're hope for building, when we send students to study abroad, those relationships are often, very strong.

And I would say in times of crisis or fragility, they become even stronger.

So last week we were able, the College of Engineering hosted, Colloquium on International Education and Engineering, and we had folks from all over the globe there.

And, you know, we had great dialog about what's happening in the world today.

And I think we all left with a renewed sense of purpose, for the work that we do.

And not feeling, overwhelmed or like it was insurmountable.

But like, you know, when you bring people to the table and you can talk as humans together, that's where change happens, you know?

So I do think, that there's there's some hope out there.

In terms of affordability and cost and so forth, everything feels like it's costing us more, whether it's through tariffs or health care costs or what have you.

Our costs also going up for education abroad in terms of students and families as well as for your your own operation, or is everything able to kind of hold steady?

Yes, that's a great question.

I hope all the right people are listening.

Yes.

Cost are definitely going up.

And I would say that, you know, education and the cost of education, the cost of travel, all of those things are not insulated.

Everything is going up, right?

I mean, I hate to bring up eggs, but people tend to do that when we're talking about the cost increase.

Right.

I would say post-pandemic this this started, and, and where, where this is impacting us in the education abroad space is, more to do with the, the care and the time, that we are putting in to creating every experience for students, ensuring that we're doing full risk mitigation, not that we didn't before, but we're doing it in a different way, right after a pandemic, people tend to behave a bit differently.

So, I would say staff time to make things happen is, much more increased than it used to be.

Right?

So it takes a lot longer to create these experiences intentionally and carefully.

So that's, that's more expensive in terms of staff timing and staffing.

And then the cost of travel is more expensive.

The cost of education is more expensive.

I would say it's not, it hasn't reached a point of being unaffordable or so much different that students are participating in it, but it is something that we're keeping an eye on, and we're certainly looking for ways to be creative and funding, and more resources for helping students get scholarships, or grants to study abroad.

And we have some great, administrators who are supportive of this and leadership at the university.

And we certainly have, donors and alumni who, feel very strongly about international education and study abroad and are, I think, committed to helping keep these costs down for students.

But, I will say Texas A&M does an excellent job of awarding scholarships for most students who study abroad.

Absolutely.

Well, you beat me.

To my question, I was going to ask you some, affordability options and ways that y'all are able to meet students where they are in their needs, because I know a big reason is affordability.

I feel like students have a perception where, I mean, their parents don't help them out with anything.

Their funds and they of course want to go study abroad in a different country.

But the affordability, it's just too expensive.

And like you said, the prices are going up and it's it's harder to do that.

So you said there are many ways that y'all have tried to meet them where they are.

And.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'll, I'll say we also have so many different program types and program options for students.

So perhaps not every student can afford to do every program.

But we have a program in every category of budget.

So for example, we have programs called reciprocal exchange programs.

And those are programs where we partner with an institution across the globe.

I'll just say maybe Sweden, and our student here at Texas A&M pays their tuition here to Texas A&M as they would normally, and all of their financial aid that they would normally get in scholarships are generally apply to that tuition.

And then they go abroad to the partner university and live there.

And then a student from that partner and university in Sweden, for example, with and pay their tuition at their home campus and all of their expenses and all of their grants and etc.

would apply.

And then they come here.

So they literally swap places.

Now that's a very affordable way to study abroad.

It's also not a very common way, because I think students don't think about the, realistically about spending a whole semester abroad.

But it is most students who do that come back and try to do it again or try to stay longer.

Understand?

So, studying abroad on an exchange program is extremely affordable.

We also have a lot of affiliate programs.

We have great faculty out there doing field trips.

And so those are trips that are attached to a course that's running in a spring or fall semester.

Those tend to be a little bit less expensive.

And then we have faculty like group programs, which are also great opportunities for students.

They do sometimes tend to be a little bit more pricey, but because they offer Texas A&M credit, you can use all of your institutional aid for those programs.

I think another big reason why people kind of are hesitant to maybe sign up for study abroad programs is, I mean, this is my experience, and people I've talked to about it, my best friend and I had a conversation about it because I had come back from Portugal and I was like, you need to do this.

Like, this is so important.

Please, like if you can sign up.

And she was like, well, I tried to look into it, but it's just so much paperwork and so much signing and like it's a it's a long, time consuming process.

And I feel like people kind of don't either have the time or like the energy for that sometimes.

But I mean, of course it's for a good reason.

I mean, yeah, you're going across the country, but, what do you think about that time consuming process?

Do you think it's worth the time?

Like, do you think that's all for a good reason, or is this the first year you're hearing about it?

No, I would say not the first impact as a student, as a student many years ago who went on study abroad programs, I would have had the same.

Yeah.

Thoughts about wow, this is taking so much effort.

And that's back before when we had to, like, walk the papers from office to office.

So in some ways, I have not a lot of money.

But in other ways, I understand that we have to meet our modern students where they are.

And I'll say a couple things.

We have tried very hard to streamline the process, to make it as easy for students to engage in as possible.

We have software that does a lot of things for you now, we try very hard not to have you duplicate information so that you're not providing, your demographic data over and over and over again.

Right.

So we do try very hard, but then I'll say this.

There's almost nothing that is meaningful and important in your life.

That doesn't take a little bit of effort.

And I think this is also one of those things, because it's extraordinarily important that you go through the process to ensure that you're aware of what you're signing up for, that you're prepared, that you have the right information, that we have the right information.

Right.

All of those things are really critical.

We don't want you getting to the airport and then figuring out that you don't have a passport.

So you just spent all that money and you can't go, right.

So while it is somewhat labor intensive, I would say it's absolutely worth it.

And if there is ever something that's insurmountable or too much, you know, we're our doors are open and we're happy to talk about it.

And maybe there's a place where we can make improvements.

But generally I think it's it's definitely worth it.

And, hopefully it's not too labor intensive.

We're going to do a quick reintroduction here if you're just tuning in.

I'm Jay Socol along with Macy Litterst.

Our guest today is Dr.

Holly Hudson, associate vice president for global engagement at Texas A&M.

We're talking about education abroad, which a lot of people know more commonly as study abroad.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, A&M is the largest study abroad program.

How did that come about and why are we the biggest?

Yeah.

So Texas A&M has had an incredible history of supporting education abroad.

And one the area that we're currently number one in, in terms of our numbers as our short term programs.

And those are, predominantly because of our faculty.

We are they are short term, faculty led experiences.

Aggies like to travel and do things with other Aggies.

And so these are opportunities for faculty who have a sincere passion or belief in either, an academic discipline or a location or hopefully both that are married together, to recruit students and take them abroad and really help them, by learning outside of the classroom.

Right.

And having the world be their classroom.

And so these programs are extremely, popular, really.

And we're growing because the faculty, because they are interested in global learning and because we have support from administrators, through, you know, the deans and the provost to support faculty in developing these opportunities.

Because if we didn't have their support, then they wouldn't be able to engage in this with all the other, responsibilities that they have.

So I think that's the primary reason, I also think that, Texas A&M is has a unique history of, civil service and commitment to service.

And so much of what study abroad does is teach you, about the importance of being, engaged and civically minded and, service oriented.

So I think it's actually also a perfect match for the culture of Texas A&M.

Yeah.

So talking about student numbers, sheer numbers, are your numbers going up or are they going down?

They are holding steady.

What is what is that look like.

Yeah.

Great question.

So in terms of abroad study abroad numbers, post-pandemic, we did experience a bit of a dip, as did the entire world.

So we weren't unique.

There.

I would say we, hit a bump in trying to rebuild a little bit.

We we rebuilt faster than most people, but then didn't weren't able to sustain that growth multiple years in a row.

So we did have some years last year, year before where we were seeing a decline.

But now we're we're back up on the, increasing participation side of things.

And, you know, I've done a lot of looking at this.

I think institutionally there was a lot of change.

And so a lot of faculty who we were working with on these programs, I left are retired and there's just, you know, post-Covid, a lot of people who could retire did.

Right.

So I think some of it was related to institutional turnover and just having to rebuild that faculty group that was supporting us.

And then the rest of it was really just due to the climate of the world.

But we're we're doing good things right now.

And the numbers are looking good.

Students seem to be interested.

We're doing a lot to keep costs down.

So, you know, hopefully we'll maintain our, you know, number one, short term program status.

I bet.

I bet you will.

So I know that just numbers don't tell the whole story.

What are some other markers that you use to demonstrate the success of your program to the administration and anybody else who's interested?

Sure.

That's a great question.

Well, I think what we want to see, right, are students who come back from their education abroad experience and make a difference.

Right?

So it wasn't just something that happened, but it was something that not something they just did, but something that actually happened to them.

Right?

That they are changed as a result.

And we look at things like, there are lots of studies right now nationally that are looking at things like, graduation rate, retention, GPA, all of those things following study abroad as compared to students who don't.

The good news is, is that studen have better GPAs, tend to, progress through their degree at a actually a faster rate than those who don't, which most people think that isn't the case.

They a lot of students do more than one program.

We have students who come back and do, the Aggie Ambassador program or other ambassador programs to go out and spread the word about study abroad and education abroad experiences.

And we certainly, want to see students who graduate, and come back and, you know, either give to the university, give to education abroad or, talk about that education abroad experience as part of what, you know, made their time here at Texas A&M invaluable.

We just had a, a keynote speaker at an event last week that did just that.

And, you know, he talked about his experiences here and how that was life changing and critical to him being able to start his own company.

And so those are other ways that we know that what we're doing matters.

And it's important, to the university, certainly.

Well, in terms of race, ethnicity, nationality and colleges and departments, what do you typically see in those groups that sign up for study abroad in terms of participation?

Yes.

Yeah.

So, interestingly, Texas A&M is, unique in that our enrollment data for education abroad almost mirrors, our enrollment data for Texas A&M University overall.

Which is pretty unique.

We have, a high percentage of students across race and ethnicity and gender, that participate in education abroad.

We also have an incredibly high percentage of Stem students studying abroad.

Which is also something that is not particularly, common across the board and education abroad offices throughout the US.

So for example, in the College of Engineering, they're sending, I think close to 2000 students annually.

That's very unique.

They have a goal of sending half, 50% of all of their Texas A&M graduate engineering graduates, abroad, which is an amazing, goal.

And I have no doubt that they're going to achieve it because they're determined and they're putting a lot of resources behind making that happen.

I would say, you know, one one way to do that is to ensure that we are plugging in these experiences, into students degree programs so that it becomes part of the curriculum, part of what they're required to do, or at least something that is an option that they're getting credit for, and then it's going to count for something.

So yeah.

Okay, here comes a weird question for you.

Bring it on.

Apple's newest AirPods, the translator.

Yeah, they can translate languages in real time and so do you.

This is a loaded question, but do you do you see a time when education abroad may not prioritize learning words and phrases in other countries?

Because technology can do that for you?

You know, so interesting that you asked that because right before I came here today, I was writing a little article for a, a magazine, an international magazine about our new Senate bill that's aimed at, requiring language.

Not requiring, but giving students the option of language study on study abroad programs and, and I had to do a little research for that.

And it, it did show that foreign languages in the US has decreased significantly since 2009.

I think it's somewhere around 20% to drop in language study.

And oh, but I guess the upside of this is that employers now, especially in things like health care, are seeing a real need, for language speakers across the board and finding those people hard, you know, hard to locate.

So I think if industry and says employers are saying we need people with language skills, then that's good.

That means will we have some hope to survive against Apple AirPod translators?

But, you know, you never I think you miss something if you don't learn to struggle a little bit in a language.

Now, do I think it's going to be super helpful to be able to say some things?

Yes.

But, you know, hopefully it won't take over.

Yeah.

Well, is there anything at all that we didn't cover that you would like people to know about this program?

Well, I would like to make sure to remember to say, that this is, upcoming week is International Education Week and international Education Week has been going on in the US for a very long time.

It's a joint initiatives, in the Department of State, Department of Education and Department of Justice and the point of this is to, showcase international and education worldwide and to celebrate it.

And we are going to do that next week, with 16 different events that are coordinated across the campus with various offices, throughout the university.

And we hope that we're going to have great turnout.

So I hope everyone listening.

Well, we'll come to one of those events.

I too.

Yeah.

How do we find out more?

What's a good website to check out?

Thanks for asking.

Global Stanford.edu, has, a lot of information there about, all of our events, ways to get involved, ways to contribute, ways to donate, and all sorts of information about our programs.

I have to think you would rather be in the position of a student to go out on some of these adventures than having to coordinate it all.

It sounds like such a happier experience for a student, right?

It's such a great experience.

But I did it as a student.

I did it multiple times, and the reason that I do this job today is because it was so impactful.

Changed my life.

So I'm just happy to help, students find opportunities.

Doctor Holly Hudson, thank you so much for joining.

Nice.

Thanks for having me.

Brazos Matters is a production of Aggieland's Public Radio 90.9 KAMU-FM a member of Texas A&M University's Division of Community Engagement.

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Thank you so much for watching and for listening.

Hope you have a great day.