>> WGVU AND GRAND VALLEY UNIVERSITY CELEBRATED DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

IN JANUARY AND CONTINUED THE EXPLORATION OF HIS LEGACY AND RELEVANCE DURING BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

>> THE DREAM OF AN AMERICA VOID OF RACISM, A VISION OF EQUITY AND INCLUSION, THE MESSAGE DELIVERED BY DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. AT THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

IN 1964, YET NEARLY SIX DECADES LATER RACISM REMAINS IN EXISTENCE IN AMERICA.

DO DR. KING'S WORDS STILL RESONATE.

AM JOINING ME KILEY, CO-HOSTING THIS EPISODE OF "NEWSMAKERS."

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU'RE HOSTING NEXT WEEK AND YOU'RE DIVING IN WITH A CHALLENGING CONVERSATION.

>> IT IS BLACK HISTORY MONTH, AND WE'RE GOING TO HONOR THAT THIS MONTH BY LOOKING AN INTO THE HISTORY OF NOT ONLY LACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT BUT THE GREATER MOVEMENT FOR EQUAL THE FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

WE'LL LOOK AT ACTIVISTS AND TO SEE WHERE IT HAS BEEN AND WHERE >> YOU SPOKE WITH GRAND VALLEY STATE UNIVERSITY BLACK HISTORY MONTH SPEAKER.

FROM HER BIO PAGE SHE OFTEN TELLS STORIES ABOUT THE INNER SECTION OF RACE, POLITICS AS WELL AS FATAL POLICE ENCOUNTERS.

ALSO A CONTRIBUTOR TO NBC NEWS AND MSNBC.

SHE WORKED AS A NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WHERE SHE COVERED THE CAMPAIGNS OF MR. MR. DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND MR. BERNIE SANDERS.

>> TODAY I'M HAPPY TO WELCOME YOU TO WGVU AS WE TALK ABOUT RACISM AND INCLUSION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> I WANTED TO CHAT WITH YOU.

WITH THE BEAUTY TECHNOLOGY, WE'RE NOT SEEING PEOPLE DURING THE PANDEMIC, BUT WE CAN HOLD THIS INTERVIEW.

THAT'S THE SAME FOR STUDENTS AT GRAND VALLEY STATE UNIVERSITY AS YOU GIVE YOUR DR. MLK SPEECH AND TALK TO US ABOUT THIS EVENT AND WHAT DR. MLK MEANS TO YOU.

>> IT MEANS SO MUCH TO BE INVITED.

MLK, D. MARTIN LUTHER KING, NOT ONLY IS HE A CIVIL RIGHTS ICON.

NOT ONLY IS HE SOMEONE WHO AN EXAMPLE OF HOW TO LEAD A GOOD LIFE AND A GREAT LIFE AS AN AMERICAN.

BUT ALSO AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN I CAN THANK HIM FOR SOME OF THE RIGHTS THAT I ENJOY, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I'M ABLE TO DO BECAUSE HE WAS ABLE TO STAND UP AND PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE FIGHTING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

I DOUBT THAT I WOULD BE A BLACK WOMAN COVERING THE WHITE HOUSE WITHOUT MARTIN LUTHER KING AND SO MANY OTHERS PUSHING FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND ALL PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, TO BE TREATED EQUALLY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND IT IS A FULL-CIRCLE MOMENT THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO SPEAK ABOUT HIS LEGACY IN THIS WAY.

TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME OF THE STORIES THAT YOU COVERED.

A LOT OF THE FOUNDATION THAT HE FOUGHT FOR IS STILL IN A WAY BEING FOUGHT FOR TO THIS DAY.

>> I BECAME A JOURNALIST BECAUSE OF THE STORY OF EMMETT TILL, A YOUNG BOY WHO WAS MURDERED IN 1955.

SHE HIS MOTHER OPENED HIS CASKET TO THE WORLD AND SPREAD HIS MESSAGE TO THE WORLD.

THAT INSPIRED ED JOHN LOUIS AND ROSA PARKS AND SO MANY OTHERS.

I GOT INTO JOURNALIST THINKING THAT I WOULD COVER CIVIL RIGHTS.

BUT WHAT I FOUND IS I'M COVERING CIVIL RIGHTS IN SOME WAYS ALMOST IN THE SAME UMBRELLA IN THIS LIFE-AND-DEATH REALM WHEN I THINK ABOUT GEORGE FLOYD BEING KILLED BY AN OFFICER WHO KNEELED ON HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES AND 46 SECONDS.

AND NINE AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE MURDERED BY A WHITE SUPREMACIST.

SO MANY STORIES I COVERED DURING THE PANDEMIC WHERE WE SEE THE RACIAL INEQUALITY IES BEING PLAYED OUT WHERE AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO DIE AND CONTRACT THE VIRUS.

YES, WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY THANKS TO THE WORK OF PEOPLE LIKE MARTIN LUTHER KING AND JOHN LOUIS AND OTHERS.

BUT CIVIL RIGHTS STILL MEANS LIFE AND DEATH AND LIVING YOUR LIFE WITHOUT BEING HARASSED OR KILLED UNJUSTLY.

>> I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THOSE INEQUALITY IES THAT PLAGUE US ALL ALL.

HAS IT BEEN DIFFICULT AS A JOURNALIST OF COLOR.

I KNOW AS AN MANNER JOURNALIST IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO COVER THE ASIAN COMMUNITY DURING THE PANDEMIC.

AS YOU TALK ABOUT POLICE BRUTALITY HAD.

HOW DOES IT HIT AS A HUMAN BECAUSE YOU ARE A HUMAN BEFORE YOU'RE A JOURNALIST.

>> I LEAN INTO THE EMOTIONS I SEE AND EXPERIENCE VENTS.

IT'S BEEN TOUGH.

IT'S BEEN TOUGH TO SEE ALL OF THE INEQUALITY PLAY OUT IN THIS COUNTRY.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON MID PANDEMIC.

WE'RE STILL HAVING TO TALK ABOUT POLICING AND PEOPLE BEING KILLED UNJUSTLY BY POLICE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

I WAS HEARTBROKEN COVERING STORIES ABOUT ASIAN AMERICANS BEING TARGETED FOR HATE CRIMES AND LOOKING AT ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE'RE HAVING TO DEAL WITH IN THIS COUNTRY AMID THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S HEARTBREAKING.

BUT THE THINGS THAT MAKE ME EMOTIONAL.

THE THINGS THAT MAKE ME CRY ARE OFTEN THE THINGS THAT END UP ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" OR NEWS HOUR.

I FEEL LIKE WE ALL NEED TO LEAN IN TO BEING EMPATHETIC AND SEEING OTHER HUMANS BEINGS AT THIS MOMENT.

>> SOME OF THE STORIES YOU COVERED MAY MAKE IT INTO THE HISTORY BOOKS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL BEING A SOURCE OF REPRESENTATION FOR A COMMUNITY THAT DIDN'T HAVE IT FOR SO LONG?

>> WELL, I'M LUCKY THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND BLACK WOMEN IN PARTICULAR WHO CAME BEFORE MY ME TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

THEY SHOWED ME FOR, I'M VERY UNDERSTANDING WHEN I WALK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AND WALK PAST THOSE GATES.

I'M PART OF A PRIVILEGED GROUP OF PEOPLE TO PUSH AND ASK THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MOST POWER SOMETIMES IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHO TO REPRESENT PEOPLE, SOMETIMES BLACK PEOPLE, HOW TO FORGE A WAY TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE THROUGH THE TRAUMATIC EVENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

>> ASKING SOME OF THOSE QUESTION TO SOME OF THE MOST INFLUENT ACTUAL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

YOU'VE PROVEN YOUR TALENT BUT YOU STILL FIND YOURSELF BEING CALLED OUT SOMETIMES.

TUCKER CARLSON ASKED YOU ABOUT A BASELESS REMARK ABOUT YOUR GRAMMAR.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS QUOTED YOU OUT AND ASKED YOU NOT TO ASK THREATENING QUESTIONS, TO BE NICE AND CALLED YOUR QUESTIONS NASTY.

DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE WERE WHO TARGET YOU AS A WOMAN AND PERSON OF COLOR, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT, AND HOW WERE YOU IN THAT POWER BALANCE BE ABLE TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF.

>> I'VE SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OTHERS LASH OUT AT ME AS A WOMAN OF COLOR, I'VE SEEN HIM LASH OUT AT WHITE MEN AND WOMEN, ASIAN MEN AND WOMEN.

I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP WHEN HE TARGETS PEOPLE HE DEFLECTS AWAY FROM THE REAL STRUGGLES HE HAS HAD IN RESPONSE TO CORONAVIRUS.

THERE ARE STILL ISSUES OF GETTING THE CORONAVIRUS TEST AND THE IDEA THAT THEY'RE STILL REAL ISSUES OF HOW THE VACCINE WILL BE ROLLED OUT, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ENOUGH RESOURCES PUT INTO RESPONDING TO THE PANDEMIC.

I ALSO SEE A PRESIDENT WHO REALLY FELT LIKE HE DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

HE WANTED TO FOCUS ON HIS OWN POLITICAL FUTURE AND SPREADING DISINFORMATION THAT THE ELECTION WAS FRAUDULENT WHEN OF COURSE IT WAS NOT.

WHEN I REFLECT ON MY ABILITY TO STAY FOCUSED ON MY GOAL, I THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT I'M DOING THIS JOB FOR SO MANY AMERICANS WHO SIMPLY WON'T MAKE IT INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHEN I ASK THE QUESTION OF A PRESIDENT, WHETHER IT IS PRESIDENT OR PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN, I THINK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING AT HOME JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE, TRYING TO SEE THEIR WAY THROUGH A PAN DEMOCRAT --PA KILLING SO MANY PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS AND FACING EVICTION.

AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED BY THE POLICE AND MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM THE PANDEMIC.

A REAL DUAL EVENT GOING ON IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

I THINK MY MIND GOAL IS TO HOLD POWERFUL PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND I HOPE WHEN PEOPLE HEAR MY QUESTIONS OR SEE MY WORK, THAT I'M DOING JUST THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR DOING JUST THAT.

WE ARE COMING TO A CLOSE.

YOU, WHO HAVE THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND, IN THE WHITE HOUSE, WHAT IS THE MESSAGE RIGHT NOW TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AT A VERY TENSE TIME?

ANY WORDS OF WISDOM THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO GATHER?

>> FOR ME, I REALLY FOCUSED ON THE IDEA THAT MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID THE ARC OF THE MORAL UNIVERSE WINDS TOWARDS JUSTICE.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT CONCEPT, I THINK THAT AMERICANS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY HAVE TO HELP BEND THAT ARC.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR OWN TALENTS YOUR OWN SKILLS, YOUR OWN INDUSTRY WHEREVER YOU ARE IN THIS INDUSTRY AND SAY HOW CAN I HELP MY COUNTRY BE BETTER THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW?

HOW CAN I STRENGTHEN THE FABRIC OF AMERICA.

SOMETIMES THAT'S MEAN MAKING PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE AND CALLING OUT THINGS THAT ARE UNJUST, BUT IT MEANS TO TAKE TIME OUT OF YOUR WAY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR PEOPLE AND REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE IN A MOMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT DOING THE THING THAT IS RIGHT, NOT THE THING THAT IS EASY.

AND I'VE HAD THAT EXPERIENCE AS A JOURNALIST.

I'VE WATCHED SO MANY PEOPLE WHETHER THEY BE FIRST RESPONDERS WHO HAVE COME TO WORK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC PUTTING THEIR OWN LIVES AT RISK OR TEACHERS FINDING NEW WAYS TO IMPACT STUDENTS AND KEEP THEM CONNECTED TO EDUCATION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC WHERE THEY HAVE SO FEW RESOURCES.

OR WHETHER IT BE PARENTS WHO ARE JUGGLING SO MUCH, TRYING TO SURVIVE, KEEPING FOOD ON THE TABLE WHILE MAKING SURE THAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE HAPPY AND JOYFUL.

AND JOURNALISTS DOING THE WORK SOMETIMES AS ESSENTIAL WORKERS GOING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AT TIMES WHEN IT WAS DANGEROUS, GOING THERE WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE WERE GETTING SICK.

WHATEVER YOUR LIFE GOAL IS, WHAT HAVE YOUR LIFE CALLING IS, WE NEED TO SIT BACK AND TRY TO BE MORE EMPATHETIC WITH OUR FELLOW AMERICANS AND HOW YOU CAN PERSONALLY IMPACT THE WORLD AND COUNTRY THAT SO BADLY NEEDS OUR CITIZENS TO COME TOGETHER TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

>> IT IS WONDERFUL TO HEAR YOUR EXPERIENCE AND INSIGHT.

WE CERTAINLY WISH YOU HEALTH AND SAFETY AS YOU CONTINUE TO COVER THESE IMPORTANT STORIES IN OUR NATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>> SHE DESCRIBES HER INTEGRITY AS A JOURNALIST WHILE LEANING IN TO TOWARD EMPATHY.

SOMETHING THAT SHE SAID LEARN ABOUT DR. KING.

FOR MORE ON DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING AND HOW HE RELATES TODAY.

WE BROUGHT IN ARCHIVES DIRECTOR GEORGE BAYARD 3 REMAINDER.

HOW ARE YOU TODAY?

>> I'M FINE, I'M GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> FROM SIX DECADES WHEN WE FIRST HEAR THOSE WORDS TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

THOSE WORDS THEN AND THOSE WORDS TODAY.

HOW ARE THEY TRANSLATE ING INTO TODAY'S SOCIETY?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THOSE WORDS ARE REALLY A CHALLENGE TO AMERICA TO LIVE UP TO ITS DREAMS.

WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION AND DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, AND ALL THOSE DOCUMENTS WAY IN THE PAST SO THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT THEM TODAY, WE EXPECT THEM TO--TO BE NOT THAT HARD FOUGHT.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF PROTESTING AND FIGHTING TO EVEN GET SOME OF THE VOTING RIGHTS, AND EQUAL RIGHTS THAT DR. KING PROPOSED IN THE MARCH IN WASHINGTON.

BUT THEORY RODED.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH WHERE HIS DREAM IS NOW.

IT HAS ERODED.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN FORCES OUT THERE THAT TRY TO STRIP AWAY--I MEAN, VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

WHY YOU SIGN A VOTING RIGHT ACTS, AND THEN GO BACK AND DO RED LINING, AND THEN GERRYMANDER GERRYMANDERING.

AND TRY TO KEEP PEOPLE'S VOTE FROM BEING USED TO EXPRESS THEIR OWN POLITICAL VIEWS.

SO MY FEELING IS THAT IF HIS DREAMS WERE TO CONTINUE, IT WOULD BE WITHOUT ALL OF THESE IMPEDIMENTS THAT ARE PUT IN.

BUT AS WE KNOW, THAT HAS BEEN THE ROAD.

THE ROAD HAS BEEN BUMPY, AND A COUPLE OF STEPS FORWARD AND A COUPLE OF STEPS BACK.

AND SO WHEN WE LOOK AT WHERE DR. KING WHERE THE COUNTRY HAD ITS VISION, IT NEVER REALLY INTERSECTED MAYBE ONLY ON A COUPLE OF TIMES.

AND WE'RE STILL AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS.

>> YOU SAY WE'RE STILL AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS.

THIS SUMMER HAS CERTAINLY BEEN A CONTROVERSIAL TIME FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKE ING TO THE STREETS CALLING FOR JUSTICE AND EQUALITY EQUALITY.

PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE I'LL HAS REALLY BEEN USING DR. KING, HIS LEGACY AND IDEOLOGY TO SAY THAT PROTESTS ARE GOOD OR ONLY PEACEFUL PROTESTS ARE GOOD.

IF YOU WERE TO LOOK INTO DR. KING'S PAST, HOW DO YOU THINK HE WOULD SEE SOME OF THE PROTESTS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE TODAY?

>> WELL, THE PEACEFUL PROTESTS HE WOULD PROBABLY BE OKAY WITH.

HE WAS REALLY, REALLY COMMITTED TO NON-VIOLENCE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT REALLY GETS MISSED A LOT OF TIMES.

WE KNOW THAT DR. KING WAS ALL ABOUT NON-VIOLENCE, BUT HOW COMMITTED HE WAS TO NON-VIOLENCE I THINK WAS A HALLMARK.

ALL THAT REALLY STEMMED BASICALLY FROM HIS RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND, AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS A MINISTER, AND HE WAS GUIDED BY GOD TO GIVE HIM A LOT OF NON-VIOLENT THEMES THAT HE HAD IN HIS POLITICAL VIEWS.

THE OTHER THING IS THAT I THINK HE WOULD HAVE SEEN THESE MOVEMENTS AS--BECAUSE HE WAS A SMART MAN.

HE KNEW THAT EVEN AT THE END OF HIS LIFE, THAT NON-VIOLENCE WAS KIND OF TAPERING OFF, THAT PEOPLE WERE IN THE MOVEMENT, IN HIS MOVEMENT, BUT THEY WERE ALSO IN A MOVEMENT WITH THE BLACK PANTHERS, AND OTHER SO-CALLED RADICAL GROUPS THAT WOULD USE VIOLENCE AS ONE OF THE WAYS TO GET THEIR VIEW ACROSS.

BUT SO I DON'T THINK--I DON'T THINK HE WOULD BE DOWN WITH IN ANY PART OF THE PROTESTS WHETHER IT CAME AS SOMETHING THAT WAS SECONDHAND OR WHETHER IT WAS INTENTIONAL, HE WAS WE COMMITTED TO NON-VIOLENCE.

I THINK THAT ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY A LOW ON HIS--IN HIS EYES.

>> YOU MENTIONED BLACK PANTHERS, YOU MENTIONED OBVIOUSLY DR. KING.

THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY ICONS IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE TALK ABOUT ANY AS MUCH, THERE HAS BEEN SUCH A LASTING LEGEND.

I THINK BECAUSE HE USED THE METHOD OF NON-VIOLENCE, AND THAT WAS--HE KNEW--HE KNEW THAT EVENTUALLY--WELL, I'LL GO BACK.

WHEN DR. KING FIRST STARTED, HE STARTED WITH THE ALBANY MOVEMENT IN ALBANY, GEORGIA.

IN ALBANY, THIS WAS ONE OF HIS PROTESTS.

HE AND DR. ALBERNATHY PUT TOGETHER A PRO PROTEST FOR EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL PAY, EQUAL HOUSING.

BECAUSE IT WAS HIS FIRST MARCH, THE POLICE OFFICERS IN ALBANY DIDN'T REACT.

THEY WERE KIND OF CAUGHT OFF GUARD, AND THEY MARCHED WITH DR. KING SO THERE WASN'T ANY VIOLENT CONTRADICTION THERE IS.

SO AFTER THAT MARCH, THEY ACTUALLY, THE SCL, THE ORGANIZATION THAT DR. KING WAS HEAD OF, LOOKED AT IT AS A FAILURE BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT BACKLASH THAT WOULD OFFSET OF WHAT IT WAS THAT HE WAS MARCHING FOR.

IF YOU FAST FORWARD A LITTLE BIT, HE REALIZED THAT IN ORDER TO MAKE THE NON-VIOLENT MOVEMENT WORK, HE KNEW THAT HE WOULD HAVE TO GET VIOLENT REACTION TO A LOT OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

THAT, I THINK, IS THE KEY.

HE REALIZED THAT HE COULD BE NON-VIOLENT ALL HE WANTED TO BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT THE ADVERSARIES WERE GOING TO REACT IN A VIOLENT WAY AND SOMETIMES OVERREACT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT MADE HIM SUCH AN ICON BECAUSE HE REALIZED THAT VERY EARLY.

WHILE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN HIS MARCHERS WERE YOUNG PEOPLE, I MEAN REALLY YOUNG, 12, 13, 14.

WE HAVE A LADY HERE AT THE MUSEUM WHO WE HAVE INTERVIEWED WHO WENT TO THE MARCH ON 3 WASHINGTON WHEN SHE WAS 14 YEARS OLD.

SO WE KNOW THAT HE WAS USING YOUNG PEOPLE.

THAT HE WAS NON-VIOLENT, AND I THINK THAT ATTITUDE TOWARDS TOWARDS--TOWARDS GETTING YOUR GOALS MET STILL RINGS TRUE TODAY.

NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE THAT AS ONE OF THE CANONS OF WHAT IT IS THEY'RE TRYING TO DO WHEN THEY GO TO GET LAWS CHANGED OR RULES CHANGED BY CONGRESS.

>> GEORGE, DR. KING WAS DEFINITELY A LEGEND HERE IN AMERICA.

EVEN WORLDWIDE.

SOME OF HIS IDEAS.

HOW HAVE THOSE IDEAS REALLY TRAVELED INTO GRAND RAPIDS?

OVER THE SUMMER WE SAW A LOT OF DIVERSITY EQUITY AND INCLUSION PROGRAMS BEING FORMED, POSITIONS WITHIN THAT BEING FORMED.

WHERE IS THAT TODAY?

>> I THINK SOME GOOD HAS COME OUT OF IT.

YOU KNOW, THE UP RISINGS THAT THEY HAVE HAD THIS SUMMER WERE, YOU KNOW, BOTH NON-VIOLENT AND VIOLENT IN SOME CASES.

WHILE NO ONE WAS HURT, THERE WAS CERTAINLY A LOT OF PROPERTY DAMAGE.

I DON'T THINK THAT DR. KING WOULD HAVE LIKED THAT PART OF IT.

THAT'S WH HE ENDED UP HAVING TWO MARCHS IN MEMPHIS BECAUSE THE FIRST MARCH WAS MARRED BY PROTESTERS WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE IN HIS PHILOSOPHY OF NON-VIOLENCE.

LIKE HERE, WHEN WE'RE HERE AT 87 MONROE CENTER, AND THAT WAS THE HUB OF ALL THE DESTRUCTION THAT HAPPENED THIS SUMMER, BUT ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT ONE NIGHT OF DESTRUCTION WERE NON-VIOLENT PROTESTS.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE HAVE REALLY COME TO EMBRACE THE DIVERSITY AND EQUITY.

WE HAVE HAD OUR HEAD OF CORPORATIONS FOUNDATION AND EVEN LITTLE COMPANIES COME UP WITH STATEMENTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING AS A MUSEUM, WE WOULD LIKE TO HOLD PEOPLE TO THOSE THINGS.

A LOT OF TIMES OF WHAT HAPPENS, YOU SEE SOME MOVEMENT.

PEOPLE GET REALLY CONCERNED WITH ISSUES.

THEY WANT TO HELP, AND SO THEY MAKE AM A DIVERSITY STATEMENT, AND A LOT OF TIMES IT JUST GOES ON THE SHELF AND GETS DUSTED OFF UNTIL NEXT TIME.

WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO HOLD SOME OF THESE FOLKS ACCOUNTABLE TO WHAT YOU WROTE DOWN ON PAPER.

AND IF YOU WROTE DOWN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT BLACK BUSINESSES AND ORGANIZATIONS HERE IN TOWN, THEN WE WANT TO SEE YOU DO IT.

IF YOUR' GOING TO PROVIDE SCHOLARSHIPS OR GIVE OUT MORE, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE LIVE UP TO THOSE STANDARDS.

BUT WE KNOW THAT IT HAS TO ALSO BE DONE WITH A LITTLE FORCE.

THOSE THINGS DO GET PUT ON A SHELF, AND UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS IN A COMPANY WHO IS COMMITTED TO THAT, WHO REALLY WANTS TO SEE IT COME THROUGH AND REALLY EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF DIVERSITY.

IT'S FLO NOT BECAUSE ALL THE MARCHING, ALL THE PROTESTING, AND ALL THE--DISAGREEMENT OF THE TOSS CO-WON'T MAKE THINGS CHANGE.

SOMETIMES YOU DO HAVE TO USE A HAMMER INSTEAD OF A CARROT.

BUT YOU KNOW, OPPOSITE THAT I'M NOT FOR VIOLENCE.

I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT.

WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE BE COMMITTED TO WHAT THEY SAY THEY'RE COMMITTED TO.

THAT'S ONE OF THE LEGACIES OF DR. KING.

THE PROCESS HAS BEEN KIND OF THE SAME PAP.

>> YOU KNOW, HE HAD THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND SHORTLY AFTER HE HAD THE EQUAL RIGHTS BILL, THE HOUSING BILL PASSED BY LYNDON JOHNSON.

IN THAT'S I DON'T THINK PEOPLE EVEN WERE THERE THAT BEHIND THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT UNTIL THEY SAW IN WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY SAW GEORGE FLOYD GET KILLED IT REALLY WOKE PEOPLE'S EYES UP AND SAID, OH, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

SOMEBODY CAN BE UNARMED, DOING NOTHING, PASSING OUGHT AN ALLEGED $20 PILL AND THEN LOSE THEIR LIFE ABOUT IT.

YOU CAN SEE THAT WE VALUE EVERYBODY'S LIFE.

BUT AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO ARE KILLED FOR NO REASON WERE.

SHOULDN'T HAVE--I MEAN, THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.

>> GEORGE, WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK NEXT WEEK FOR MUTUALLY INCLUSIVE WITH KILEY A.MBOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

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