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Tacoma Youth Symphony, the longest tenure in the organization's 60 year history.

Dr. Paul Elliot.

Cobb's list of accomplishments is long, and he's still at it as the music director and conductor for the Everett Philharmonic.

Dr. Paul Elliot Cobbs is next on Northwest.

Now.

Dr. Paul Elliot Cobbs was trained in Vienna and brings a renowned level of expertise in 18th and 19th century classical music.

But his doctoral thesis centered around his interpretation of William Grant Still's Afro-American Symphony.

And that thesis is considered to be part of the established canon in that area of music, culminating in his conducting of that work at a sold out Carnegie Hall in 2006.

While his professional career reads like a highlight reel of great performances at the world's most prestigious concert halls, one might argue that even more importantly, much of his time has been devoted to educating and molding several generations of young musicians.

Somehow, he landed here in western Washington and spent decades conducting festivals, lecturing at colleges and conducting with the Seattle Opera and a half dozen youth symphonies.

But one of his largest roles was teaching and conducting the Tacoma Youth Symphony, and he joins us tonight from our studios right back here in Tacoma, Doctor Cobbs, welcome to Northwest now.

Great to have a conversation with you and talk a little bit about music and some of the issues surrounding it.

Let's start, though, with your bio.

Okay.

How did you come up?

Where did you come up with?

How in the world you find your way to western Washington?

my goodness.

Well, let's make a long story short, fifth grade music teacher came to our homeroom.

Who wants to play an instrument?

Raise my hand.

I've been playing an instrument ever since and started out with trumpet.

Violin, went to college on the scholarship, trombone and viola.

And then from there, conducting.

And here I am.

How did you find yourself in Western Washington?

Well, you know, in Detroit, when I was 21, I got my first conducting job with the Detroit Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra, 31.

I was 21 and I was an assistant conductor and the Detroit Symphony saw me and they wanted me to audition for a resident conducting job.

So I'm one to take over while the maestro was in Europe.

And so I tried out for it and and I came in second place and the maestro saw me and said, you know, time to go to Europe.

So I went to Europe and I started out to Vienna, you know, the Academy for Music in Vienna.

And I was there for over three years.

Then I, I saw a concert where, there was a conductor who had all the teachers that I had, but he was about ten, 15 years older.

And I saw that he was headed to Seattle.

His name is right Name Adele.

Yes.

And I also met a very fine conductor, Herman Mitchell.

And he was conducting the Wagner ring in Seattle.

So I had three different choices of places to go.

I could always go back to Michigan, but there was also New England and there was Indiana.

And so I asked and I said, if I came to Seattle, could I study with you?

I came and did my graduate work in Seattle.

Could I also study with you while you're doing the Seattle Symphony?

Yes, of course.

So there so with with Ryan and Middle, I would come to the Seattle Symphony rehearsals and I actually got a chance to conduct them several times.

And then with with Herman Michael, I was an assistant opera conductor for the Seattle Opera, and I was able to work with him ever remember getting the evil eye from first chair violin when you were a 21 year old conductor?

That's all I have.

I have a story.

I have a story about that.

My very first rehearsal, you know, I was I was Mr. Big Shot.

Yeah, I was Mr. Big Shot.

In the first 10 minutes.

I must have stopped 20 times.

No, I want this.

No, I want that.

No, that's dying.

And you could tell the musicians were getting quite upset with the whole thing.

So the concertmaster raised his hand and said, Maestro, when I conducted, I played this with Bernstein conducting.

He wanted this boy when I played this with Ormandy conducting, he wanted this boy.

Maestro, what bowing do you want?

I thought about what he said, and I realized I was smart enough to realize that was my last chance before they all walked out.

And I said, With your experience, whatever boy you think is best for this group, let's do that.

From then on.

Yeah, my lesson was learn as a message, receive message.

Talk a little bit about the Tacoma Youth Symphony.

How did you get involved?

What did you envision when you started there and what did it end up being?

Well, you know, when I was at the Northwest School of the Arts, I had members of my orchestra that came from the Seattle Youth Symphony, the Tacoma Symphony and the Everett Youth Symphony, as well as some foreign students from Asia and Europe.

And we supported each other.

We would go to each other's concerts.

And so I had a concertmaster who was from the Tacoma Symphony, and we went to her concert and and she says, I want you to meet our conductor, Harry Davidson.

And so I came to the concert.

I met Harry being naive as you were.

Yeah, I met I met Harry and and shook his hand and and, and my concertmaster said my two favorite conductors side by side.

Well, that was nice.

Yeah.

Some months later, Harry called me up and said, you know, I'm going back east to to do some work.

I need someone to cover for me for a concert.

So I did.

And then they asked me to cover for a year.

I did.

And then they asked me to take the job.

And 27 years later, here I am.

You could you could see that one coming from outer space.

Your Youth Symphony Farewell concerts on May 18th at the Pan de just tickets by the way Tacoma city theaters dot org.

Is that going to be hard?

What are you going to miss them?

it's it's so hard.

It's going to be very difficult because what attracted me to Tacoma Youth Symphony was the culture.

The students were so loving and so caring, and they still are.

I mean, it's a unique place because everybody loves each other.

They support we have musicians all over the world and top positions because they've been supported.

So too, to leave that situation.

To leave that culture is going to be very difficult.

I'm just going to advocate for the South sound here a little bit.

Why does Everett get to keep you and we don't Well.

The with Everett the job isn't as strenuous.

Yeah it's a matter of physical fitness as opposed to the desire to to stay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is a little more demanding.

Herding cats.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's more demanding now, music wise.

It's great.

It's fine.

But outside of that, the physical aspect is a little more difficult.

School visits and the whole the whole night.

Talk a little bit about the role of music in the arts, in the lives of young people and the power that it has.

I think people always make the mistake of they look at STEM science, technology, engineering and math, and we can always cut out music.

We can always I don't think they see the integration of these things.

Talk a little bit about that.

Why is music important in the life of a young person?

I think if we look at what happened during the COVID pandemic, we can see exactly how important music is.

There was a survey done and our students took part of this survey and it as we continued our music through COVID, we took the precautions.

We were online, we were on Zoom.

We figured out ways to keep the students engaged, and many of them said this prevented me from committing suicide.

Wow.

I felt I felt connected to something.

Suicide rate for young people is at an all time high, but music allows them to have their culture and to be a part of something bigger than themselves and to express their emotions beyond just words.

I would say the other thing, too, is if you hate five periods of your day in school, but you like the sixth period, you look forward to it.

That keeps folks in school.

Well, that's exactly right.

You know, I heard that one school district was very happy that their dropout rate had diminished and 77% of their seniors graduated.

Well, with Youth Symphony, 100% graduate and 100% go on to college and 100% get scholarships.

So when you say you have to keep up your grades in order to do music, right, that's the incentive to do so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just like football or a lot of the other enhancements and enrichments that's in school programs.

Is classical music dying?

no, it's always there.

The Beethoven is always going to be Beethoven.

Brahms is always going to be brown.

That's how it became classical.

It just means you need to experience it.

You know, these students are quite young, but when you see the light in their eyes, when they play there.

We just did Beethoven's Fifth in November and they were just excited about it because it's universal.

When I did Beethoven's Fifth in Germany, they interviewed me, said, How can an American understand Beethoven so well?

I said, Beethoven doesn't have borders universal, and it doesn't have an age either.

When I was four years old, I heard my first Beethoven symphony and I couldn't move.

It was too mesmerizing.

Is there a particular role that music and the arts can play for minority students?

Is what is how does that fit into the big picture that we've been talking about?

It is it's an enhancement for all students.

But have you seen what's your take away from the from the power that it can hold for minority students and and reducing that achievement gap in some of the things that we talk about?

Well, you know, I can speak firsthand because I'm from Detroit and and my family was not rich, but we needed scholarships.

We had to work hard to pay our way through college music was that vehicle our music allowed me to experience things that I would not have experienced, got scholarships to college, got jobs.

And so in Tacoma Symphony, we give people scholarships if they can afford it.

We also provide them with private lessons If they can afford those any student that graduate from the Tacoma Youth Symphony will be good enough to get a scholarship at universities.

Nice talk a little bit about teaching life's lessons through music.

Not all of the people in the company use symphony, and that's not going to be all going to be music majors and have a career playing their instrument or conducting.

That's not to give it.

Its like it's like pro football or anything else.

A certain small percentage may make it.

You've got folks in all around the country who are doing that, but there are some broader lessons to be taught there.

And in your retirement video you talk about just an example.

Early is on time.

On time is light and late is not acceptable.

Yes, but you use coming to band, being there, preparing your work, practicing.

Talk a little bit about what it's teaching kids that ain't necessarily music.

Well, that's exactly right.

Long ago when I was in and in high school and then in four further in university, I had fantastic conductors.

They were disciplinarians.

That saying I learned in my freshman year when I was late to band in the first day because I couldn't find the room.

Right.

And my, my, my band director was an army band guy from Washington, D.C. You said Cobbs Early is on time.

On time.

It's late and late is never acceptable.

I was never late again.

So I learned.

I learned that lesson.

And then William Rovelli, he from Michigan, he once told me I was a gentleman and a scholar and I walked two feet above the ground.

And his thing was this You're going to see the students longer and more than anybody else that they know you better teach them more than what not to play.

When you were teaching about life, how to get along with people, how to be a good citizen.

And so that's what I try to do.

Work on a team, work as a team.

That's a big.

Exactly.

I also want to talk about perseverance and grit, which is something that's really kind of bubbling up, I think is as a value in schools on the academic side.

But to teach people to hang in there, it doesn't come easy.

Your first year is going to be awful.

You're going to be frustrated.

Talk a little bit about working through the learning curve and how that can impact somebody's future if they can learn a little perseverance and grit.

That's exactly right.

You know, I talk to my seniors every year, and that's one of the main things I say your life doesn't go as you planned it, but you keep going and you keep working and you try to be prepared for whatever comes.

You're going to get knocked down, but get back up.

The Japanese have a saying Get knocked down seven times, but get up eight times.

The the boxer once said everybody has a plan when they get in the ring.

But what what do you do when you get punched in the mouth?

Yeah, that was Tyson.

That was Mike Tyson.

Everybody has a plan, you know, get punched in the mouth.

That's right.

I said, don't, don't stop.

Keep going.

Enlist.

Help!

Learn from it.

I said, Life is cruel because you first you have to you get your lesson and then you learn what it's all about.

So But keep going and surround yourself with people who support you.

Surround yourself with people you respect.

Don't stop.

Take advantage of the opportunities.

Always be polite.

Always be thankful for what you get.

You've had some some exceptional students over the years.

But I want to ask you a broader question.

What does mastery look like?

Mastery looks, you can tell mastery because it looks easy.

You make the very, very difficult things look easy.

If somebody is working really hard and they're not mastering it, I mean, they're struggling.

But a real master that it's whether it's sports or whether it's martial arts or whether it's music.

If you look at a real master, it looks so easy until you try to do it.

Then you see how hard it is.

But that's real mastery and how much knowledge and experience underlies that.

They've almost a masters have almost forgotten how much they know to some degree, which I think makes teaching difficult.

Yes, Yes, that's true.

I did martial arts for 30 years and the the trick with a white belt, white builds.

When you begin, you keep working and you keep working and you keep working.

And at the end you go all the way to your black belt and then you come back as a white belt.

It becomes simple again.

Everything is new.

And so, yeah, by the time you've mastered something, you just do it.

So sometimes you have to figure out, how do I explain to someone who doesn't have all of this behind them?

And then you give up.

But by teaching, we learn.

By teaching, we learn.

We have to figure out a way to break it down so they can understand.

Yeah.

You know, like sports and we've talked about this.

Chances are you're not going to make a living doing music or conducting, but you've had some high performing, high performers.

How have you managed them?

And if you have a suit that you know is going to be capable of playing in the New York Philh what's what's your approach with them?

Are you extra hard on them or are you trying to lift them up so they can keep their confidence?

How do you approach somebody who you say to yourself, There it is.

I'm glad you asked that question.

Number one, if you ask any student of mine, what is the most important thing?

You know, some might say, being able to play really fast or no.

Most important thing is attitude.

If you have a good attitude, what you don't know will teach you.

But if you have a bad attitude, no matter how good you are, it's not going to go far.

And so attitude is number one.

And I also put them in I put the best students in a position to teach, because by teaching the ones who don't know as much as they do, they're still learning there and sharing.

And it's a it's a peer interaction.

And so by teaching, they're also learning.

So yeah, make the ones who are most most capable of teaching, teach and that's reinforcing with them, too.

That's exactly right.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a that's a good point.

I think you see that in things like medicine too, where your chief resident, your best students are in a mentoring and advisory role very early in their careers.

Yes.

I mean, this guys, you know, I know a couple of people, children.

I mean, you know, you're a fourth year or fifth year resident in your teaching.

Yeah.

Really?

Yes.

So.

Yes.

Talk a little bit about the power of of that to you.

Did you know about how how teaching is important to reinforce your your best students.

But I would say to teaching when you go to make site visits for the upcoming youth Symphony and talk to teachers and try to persuade school officials that music and the arts are important.

What's your approach there?

Because I'm sure you have that discussion with them as the discussion we're having that it's not just all stem.

How do you approach that?

What's your reception when you have those discussions with members that are resistance in this modern era?

Talk to me about your experience there.

Well, first of all, I tell the teachers what they're doing is extremely important.

Sometimes they're on an island and and, you know, they're working hard every day and they have problems with the principal and they have problems with the school board.

And then they're trying to teach.

And I feel for them because I've been in that situation, I know firsthand what it's like.

And so the first thing I want to do is reassure them what they're doing is extremely important and extremely beneficial.

The second thing I want, I do what I found is that I have a good relationship with my parents.

I always had a parent support group and we talk we talk about what was important and the parents go and talk to the school board and the parents go and talk to the principal.

Okay?

And that's that's how I got what I wanted.

I would I would let the parents know this is why we're doing this for your student.

And look how good they've become and look at their attitude and look how beneficial it is.

And I wish you would tell this to.

Yeah.

And they do loudly.

So that has always helped.

So you've you have a strategy for that.

You've recruited a small army of parents to get out there and advocate better the most vocal ones, which is a good idea.

Talk a little bit about your legacy here.

Your favorite memories, and what do you consider to be your largest achievement as a conductor?

Wow.

Carnegie Hall.

You've been there?

Yeah, I've been to Carnegie Hall several times.

three times, actually.

And each time standing ovations and four curtain calls.

But I think the most important thing is the fact that students have grown up become good husbands, good wives.

they some of the ones who were squirrely when they were young are now responsible, working hard.

They're in a position of leadership in all fields.

So what I appreciate most is the fact that we played a small part in the development of some very fine people.

We have lots of doctors and nurses and engineers and teachers, librarians, and they're good people and they come back and they say hi.

And so I remember when we went to this place or I remember when we played this or that.

It's important that we did that.

But even more important is to see the results that came from what we did.

Seeing them as responsible adults.

You really have a couple thousand kids, don't you?

yes.

I see at least 100.

150 kids a year over a 27 years.

And that's just Tacoma.

That doesn't include Seattle.

And Everett doesn't include Detroit either.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't want to get morbid here.

I hope.

I hope you have many good years even to see even if they even if they are up in Everett.

But how do you want to.

How do you want to be remembered?

Have you thought about that much?

No.

No, I haven't.

But if.

If they remember me, I want them to remember me as someone who supported them in a time when life was the most difficult.

I would never want to be a teenager again.

But it's different.

It is different now.

It's even harder now.

These ten years.

It's even harder.

I want to be remembered as someone who supported them when they were in their most time of need.

Once they get through the teenage years and into their twenties, you know, they have a bit better perspective.

But life is difficult now and I just want to support them.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to coddle them.

I'm going to yell at them, I'm going to keep them on the right path.

But that's what they need to.

But it comes from a good place.

It comes from.

The reason I've been called Darth Cobbs for 30 years, but they still keep coming because they know it's not that I want.

I don't like them.

It's because I do like them.

I said, You know, when I don't like you, if I just look at you and not say anything.

Yeah, check my head.

Great conversation, Dr. Cobbs.

Thanks so much.

thank you for inviting me.

music is often seen as a sort of sideline to the real work of education.

The bottom line, there's a lot of research that shows that music education is an enhancement to learning, and that if we want more success in the three R's music and getting through the struggle to learn, it is an essential part of that formula.

Our thanks to Dr. Cobbs for coming to Northwest now.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the Web at kbtc.org.

Stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of Northwest.

Now and Till Next Time.

I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.