>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds and leaders in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rahul Jandial.

He's a dual-trained brain surgeon and neuroscientist.

He's known for combining the fields of surgery, science, brain structure and the conscious mind.

He focuses on how we can apply them to everyday life for enhanced performance, improved memory, heightened creativity, and much more.

As a surgeon, he provides complex surgical treatment to patients with cancer.

As a scientist, his laboratory investigates the biology of the human brain, and today he shares with us how to better understand the brain and the mind, why emotional regulation is the most important skill to learn how to stop being stuck and how to transform your life with your thoughts.

I'm so glad you're here today, so let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪ ♪ What is the biggest factor that holds us back from thinking in terms of abundance and thinking in terms of positivity?

Why do we stay stuck on negative thinking, negative thoughts and limited mind-set so much?

>> The simple answer is that the stories we've been told about what's going on in our skull, they're just wrong.

>> Interesting.

>> Okay, so the first thing is there's no wires.

We're not hard-wired.

There are no gears.

So let's go backwards.

Way back when, like ancient Egypt, they thought it was just, like, flan or something.

The soul was in the heart.

And I can see that.

Then when sort of like speakeasies and Industrial Revolution, all the pictures about the brain, you see them as gears but modern time we're starting to think about it as wired.

"I'm wired for this.

I'm wired for that."

You're not wired for anything.

It's an ecosystem filled with throbbing hundred billion microscopic jellyfish, sparking electricity at each other, trying to approach each other, shaving down, pruning, branching, arborizing.

So when I use those words like arborization, pruning, those are neuroscience words in rigorous neuroscience journals, but it hasn't sort of made it to pop culture.

So I think part of what keeps us stuck is that we think, "Oh, I'm wired this way or I have to rewire," and it's too on/off rather than flows, right?

It's not freeway from A to B.

It's the way you see a school of birds flow and they roll over each other.

Aurora borealis.

That's how thoughts and that's how feelings float through the ether of our minds.

When you start to understand it like that, then, you know every day, something new is possible.

Is it easy?

No.

>> What's been one of the biggest realizations from studying neuroscience, but also studying the brain and actually opening up a piece of the skull, looking in there surgically doing things to optimize it?

What was one of a big "aha" moment for you of studying both areas where you're like, "Wow, there's something that I didn't think was possible that is actually possible for human beings to do"?

>> So the thing that shocked me was that we could actually remove parts of the brain and people would go home a week later.

I'm not saying there isn't some subtle neuropsychiatric issue, but for example, I had a guy come in, he's a framer and you know, they have the pneumatic -- It's not hammer and nails as many people conceive it to be, but poom, poom, poom.

And a lot of times when it recoils back, they'll pop a nail through their orbit or nose... >> Ugh!

>> ...into their frontal lobe.

>> This happened?

>> And they drive in.

>> With a nail in their brain?

>> Yeah.

You can have a penetrating injury to certain parts... >> Of the brain?

>> ...of the brain, and you drive in.

>> Holy cow.

>> So that's the first thing I realized is, so there isn't a "region in the brain" for creativity.

There isn't a region in the brain for this.

So the first thing I had to realize was, no, this thing is working in -- as an environment, as an ocean filled with like a kelp forest and jellyfish.

So if you drop something into the ocean, you're not going to disrupt -- There's no spot for something.

And that ties back to what I want people to walk away with is that you have to think of your thoughts and feelings and the working of your flesh inside your skull as a garden, as an ecosystem.

Just because you have one weed or one spike doesn't mean the harmony is disrupted.

So, for example, one frontal lobe we can surgically remove if needed, after trauma or tumor and patients function, they drive, they talk on the phone.

Again, you don't want this.

One occipital lobe doesn't leave you blind.

It's that people think occipital lobe, blindness.

No.

If I take out a tumor from the right occipital lobe, I just can't trust my left rearview mirror when I drive.

It's a field cut.

Your world goes from this to this.

So when I first started seeing that because I assumed you hit any part of the brain, it's -- you're dust.

>> Because people will say like, "The left side of the brain is for this and the right side of the brain is for this and I use more of the right side of my brain and that's why I'm creative" or whatever it is, or "I'm more analytical because I use this side of the brain" or "my fear-based side of the brain is heightened."

So -- >> No.

>> So you're saying if one part of the brain is under attack -- tumor, trauma, I don't know, a nail, Whatever it is -- something happens to that part of the brain.

It may not hold you back from your creativity or your critical thinking potentially?

>> No.

Because the rest of your brain can compensate.

Now, the way I think of the brain is like a mushroom.

And so you've got the canopy and all the magic and the thoughts spark from the top, the surface, and then they send things down to the stalk, which comes deep to your mouth and comes out of the bottom of your skull and then turns in your spinal cord.

>> Wow.

>> So when I want to move my left hand, my right brain says, "Move your left hand," it sends down signals that come under my armpit, that come under this nerve.

And that's what happens, right?

>> That's crazy.

So what if that -- >> Those lower parts, there -- you hit that, you lose something, >> Something down here?

>> The reptilian brain, the spinal cord.

Every millimeter does something because it's a lot of -- Think of it as cables, even though it's not wires.

But there are a lot of we call them tracts, T-R-A-C-T-S.

There are a lot of tracts that are communicating the things that the canopy thought of.

And in that area, if there's a nail injury, you do get a certain deficit.

But in your thinking, your feeling, your emotions, your love, your fear, it's not a fear spot or a love spot.

It's sort of, again, the aurora borealis in the worlds of a school of birds just flowing in different energy.

Right?

>> That's fascinating.

>> So that's -- I want people to walk away with "Okay, so --" what that leaves people with is "the fear I have is real but it's not fixed."

It's not wired, it's not permanent.

And through effort, through exposure therapy, through whatever it is, whatever your process is, that school of fish can flow in a different way.

To me, that's infinitely powerful, that we are new every day.

That also gives us a responsibility to hold on to our positive attributes, that we can spiral away every day.

We can spiral downward and we can spiral upward any day.

>> And so have you studied brains where someone came in at one point and then maybe a year or five years later you saw them again and you were able to look inside their brain?

What did you see different with the brain?

>> Again, let me start with a very sort of dramatic example.

When there's a medical need and the parents ask for it and it helps the child, we can actually make a big incision and take away a frontal lobe, a parietal lobe, an occipital lobe that's sparking seizures.

And when they wake up, that left side doesn't work.

Three years later when you see them... >> No way.

>> Yeah.

>> They can move?

They can function fully again?

>> Yeah.

So the remaining hemisphere can reorganize.

The linebacker can also be the defensive end, can also be sometimes even on offense.

There are different roles those neurons can play.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

And how do we know that?

>> Because you've removed half the brain and it's still functioning.

>> And we took a picture three years later and that half of brain was still gone.

>> It's still gone?

>> Yeah.

It didn't sprout back.

It's not like a liver where we cut half of it off and the mom grows some back and you take a chunk of it and you put it in the kid.

So that part is still missing.

Yet that function has returned.

>> That's crazy.

>> I want people to know that that's true plasticity.

And it's not rewiring, it's not regrowing.

It's actually whatever you have is repurposed.

And how do they do that?

Well, through the electrical flows of the mind.

There's... >> Wow.

So not the electrical flows of the brain?

>> Right.

>> The electrical flows of the mind.

>> Of the mind.

People are like, "Okay, now he's gone.

Now he's selling crystals in Malibu."

No, no, no, no.

Stay with me.

When you walk up to a stadium, 70,000 fans, think of those as neurons.

We have 100 billion.

Those little magical sparks from the jellyfish that I had described.

Because they look like that.

They're not squares.

So you can talk.

People are talking and moving.

That's how people conceive or conceptualize the brain.

But what happens when they roar together?

That's what I mean about the electricity.

>> There's an energy.

>> Right.

There's an energy.

>> You feel it.

>> It's an epiphen-- Okay.

Now, let's build an engine.

The parts are there.

You fire it up [Mimics engine roar] and there's a hum, right?

That's more than just the engine and the pistons.

A symphony.

You've got the musicians.

I'm less familiar with this, but they create something bigger.

That's what I mean about the mind, that it's not a -- it's not a forward-backward, electricity zinging around on wires.

It's that thing that happens when you have 100 billion throbbing, growing, branching neurons and it's electricity-based.

You can put a sticker on and light a small light bulb.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

When we remove the right hemisphere and the patient comes back three years later -- kids -- and they can function again.

No new wires sprouted, nothing was spliced.

What remained created a new roar created a new hum, created -- recovered the function.

So it's not always easy for people to understand.

But that's the truth.

And that's our current understanding of how the brain leads to the mind.

And it comes back to that we are electrical currents, we're not wires, we're not switches, we're not spots, we're not gears.

>> Electrical currents >> Yeah, they're flows.

What is that?

So, like, you go to a lake and you drop a big -- you jump in there, whatever.

Right?

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> There's a wave that moves through the lake, but the water molecules didn't ride with it.

>> Right.

>> Right?

>> Right.

>> So that's the hum, the symphony, the roar, the electrical global waves that are pulsating through our brains.

And when people say they're in the zone or they're in a flow state or they're in a meditative state, that global energy flow, those waves, they're different.

They can be measured and categorized.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

>> So what does that mean when someone's in a flow state in terms of the mind-brain connection?

What is happening?

Are these 100 billion jellyfish, like, in symphony and they're humming at a high level?

They're working in concert?

>> Let me jump in right there.

You would think that if somebody's about to hit a game-winning shot, their best performance is when they're at a high level, meaning wild, frenetic.

Actually, no.

>> When they're super calm.

>> Somewhere in between.

>> Oh, okay.

>> So not asleep.

>> Right.

>> But not "Hey, I'm on my third espresso, just taking in stuff in the morning."

>> Focused.

>> Focused, but relaxed.

And there is a measured state for that.

And it usually has to do with sort of medium brain waves.

That's something I'm writing about right now.

And whether you meditate or you're under that -- the two-minute drill in football or you're a ballerina and you have that perfect, you know, dance routine coming up or maneuver, you are actually disengaging some of the things that would get in the way of you releasing a performance.

So you're not thinking the performance.

You're getting out of the way.

>> You're being.

You're just -- >> Yeah.

>> Interesting.

>> And that has a different measurable electrical flow state, you know, and it's not revved up.

>> Because what's happening, if we allow our emotions, the limbic part of the brain is the emotion-based part of the brain?

>> If there was a slice down the side of my head, you would actually see the mushroom canopy and you'd see some unique Star Wars-looking structures in the middle.

And then you'd see the reptilian brain.

>> The stem?

>> Yeah, the stem.

>> The stem is the reptilian brain.

And in the middle is the limbic system.

>> Mm-hmm.

So the cortical canopy and that emotional brain limbic system, they have branches towards each other, measurable.

And so when somebody goes from age 16 to being wild to being 18 and more composed -- let's say adolescence -- the structure of the brain hasn't changed.

It weighs the same.

It looks the same on MRIs, but the person's totally different, right?

>> Why?

>> Well, because of the cultivation of thought from the cortical canopy, the mushroom cap, to the emotional brain.

As they integrate more, you're able to say, "Hey, maybe don't run across that freeway" or "maybe wear that seatbelt."

So it's -- >> It's learning.

>> But it's interacting with emotions.

At the same time, you don't want to be emotionless.

So emotion is making a push back to thought like no, love is an emotion.

"This pain I'm feeling because Mom is sick is an emotion.

I don't want to be Spock about it or tamp it down."

So that cultivation of thought and emotion is what is the most lush way to live because then you're adaptive to stress like, "Hey, this is actually something dangerous going on."

Thought is coming in.

>> Be aware, yeah.

>> Emotions going on.

But at the same time, you have this internal, what they call emotional regulation, like nothing's wrong and you're just freaked out.

And that's where those branches -- thought, meditation, therapy, counseling, hugging your puppy -- it creates a better balance between thought and emotion.

And that tone, not on/off, the tone is what life is about.

You know, you become a new parent.

Let that emotion run rampant.

Cry.

You're about to go see your boss and you know it's not going to go well.

And you're starting to do things that you know is emotion running rampant, then use thought and breathing exercises.

>> Turn the volume down.

>> Just set the tone a little different on that.

And then go and see your boss or your lover or some conflict situation you're in.

That is what we're doing throughout life.

And the example of it is adolescence, where it happens for most of us automatically.

But then we stop like we're grown-ups.

That tone is something you cultivate through the experiences of life.

And then when you get older or when the next trauma comes, you're better braced in position for how to cope with this, a little more thought because I'm running hot on emotion or like, "Man, I'm too cold about this right now.

It is a raw situation.

I need a safe place to let my emotions run wild."

>> Right.

A safe environment.

Yeah.

>> That's the way I approach the intersection of thought and emotion.

>> Yeah.

I think you said it.

Emotional regulation, I feel like, is, for me, one of the most powerful skills that someone can learn in relationships, in career, in driving on the street with other people around.

>> Emotions are dominant, by the way.

>> Yes.

>> Which is great, but -- So it's usually emotional regulation, not thought regulation.

>> Right, but learning how to have emotional regulation.

If you're always in reaction mode, you see something ah, you're in freakout mode, you're in scream mode, you're in defensive attack mode, you're in "someone's hurting me" mode.

If you're always in that space, what happens to the actual physical aspect of the brain and how does that affect the body and the mind if your emotions are always running high?

>> Emotional regulation is tricky in two ways.

Hot emotions lead to high heart rate, surging blood pressure, lots of things being released.

We've already heard about them.

So you're running your body in overdrive for no reason.

You're wearing yourself out.

That makes sense to people.

Okay?

That's a good reason to be physiologically not stressed if you can and you come up with your coping maneuvers.

What's more interesting is the intersection of the frontal lobes, the thinking brain and the emotional brain is that emotions are -- they're coming in favored.

They're always hot.

The thinking brain has to do more of the work.

And at some point, if you are not able to cultivate emotional regulation, it becomes a feed-forward thing because the connections start to sever.

And then you start having this emotional brain that's no longer being tamped down or paced or controlled by the thinking brain.

So emotional regulation is the life skill to deal with the trauma coming up to rev your body down.

But if you don't try to cultivate it, you'll actually lose control of it.

And as you get older, you'll have more rampant, uncontrolled emotions and not be approaching life the way you want to.

So that's the answer about emotional regulation.

>> Do emotions have more power over thoughts or thoughts have more power over emotions?

>> We start off with -- Emotions are generally on overdrive compared to thought.

So thinking through emotions, thinking which emotions have earned the right to be there is that lifelong process.

And if people are like, "What does that mean?"

Well, take adolescence.

Teenager goes from 15 to 19.

Very different person.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's all emotional regulation, right?

>> Uh-huh.

>> Thought was losing, then thought comes into balance emotion.

>> Reflection and thinking, yeah.

>> So take that thing that you know happens.

Take my explanations if they're of value to you and then say, "Now let me take the wheel of that thing that happened without me actually choosing or driving."

Right?

That maturity happens on its own.

"Now, let me take the wheel of that process and try to do it for the rest of my life every year, every moment" and not just say, "Hey, whatever I got at 18, 19 is who I am."

Going back to your first thing, you're new every day.

So it's a responsibility to cultivate that emotional regulation through thought and through certain behaviors for our whole life, because you never know what's going to happen.

Pandemic, war.

You want to be best braced for that and not approach that as a 15-year-old.

>> Right.

You want to have more awareness and I don't know if you want to call it control, but I think you want to have control over your emotions and not let your emotions control you.

And so what's the best way to train the emotional part of the brain?

Maybe we need to be more emotional in a moment and not be chill and relax when there's an attack.

>> Well, maybe the moment is so big, man.

Of course, you're just emotionally over the top.

I'm not a person that has emotional regulation.

You don't have this brain the same forever.

It's a constant trimming of the cells, modulating tone.

To me, it's a little bit of work if you're in a good spot, like, hey, this ain't guaranteed.

But it's also so much power and opportunity that if you're not in a good spot, like tomorrow can be better and if not tomorrow, then the month or the year after.

Right?

So emotional regulation, the shortcut, meditative breathing that for thousands of years people have said can help you chill out is an anxiolytic, can break anxiety.

Well, we have proof of that now.

And I think that's important for people to know that it's not just some, you know, it's just not a concept that's being thrown around too casually.

What I would say to people is that's something you have that's free because I'm not selling anything.

>> Breathing.

>> And the pace of breathing.

>> What's a pace that works best?

I mean, there's lots of different techniques of meditative breathing.

>> You know, people say through your nose or mouth.

And that's kind of the confusing stuff that's out there.

Well, the nose and the mouth connect before they get to the trachea and it goes to your lungs.

So it doesn't matter how, but it's about slowing the cadence and making the cadence more methodical.

A deep breath in and a deep breath out.

It's no different than what we do in surgery when you feel the case getting a little out of your control.

>> What do you do?

>> Well, first thing is... [ Inhales slowly, deeply ] I just slow my breathing down.

And that doesn't mean the solution will arise.

But I know that puts me in my most calm and focused state to find the solution for the problem in front of me.

And likely that's what athletes that thrive do as well.

>> You don't want your brain surgeon being... [ Breathing rapidly ] >> Exactly.

But that's what stress does.

It makes you hyperventilate.

Right?

>> Absolutely.

>> That's a great point.

If you just hyperventilate just because you're just doing it as just for whatever reason, you'll get physically jittery.

You will give yourself anxiety by just doing that.

>> Yeah, I felt that just for a second.

>> I'm showing you the proof on the other side.

Do the opposite of hyperventilation and you'll make yourself less frenetic.

Will that solve your relationship problems?

I'm not sure.

Will it make you not want to get in a fight with your boss?

I'm not sure.

But you should know that that puts you at your most in command of your emotions, your emotional regulation.

That's a great, great question.

>> Gosh, the emotional regulation, it sounds like is a big part of the health or the lack of health of our brain and our bodies is what I'm hearing you say.

The emotional regulation is at the center of our potential let's call it sprouting of healthy brain activity and connections and also healthy cells throughout the body and organs or a lack of emotional regulation could potentially damage the brain activity or it could have it so up and down as opposed to a calmer activity and the body as well to create potentially more I don't want to call it cancerous cells, but... >> You'll wear yourself out if you let the emotions run too high.

>> Exhaustion, stress, anxiety, depression, all these different things.

>> You'll wear yourself out.

>> What I'm hearing you say is emotional regulation is at the core of these things.

>> I think so.

And it's the rarest skill to cultivate and the most important one.

And it's in your control.

>> This question is called the Three Truths.

Hypothetical scenario -- Imagine you live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day on Earth.

But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your message with you to the next place.

It's your last day.

You've got to turn the lights off.

There's no more electricity in the brain and you move on to the next place, but you get to leave behind three things you know to be true.

Three lessons you would leave with the world.

What would you say are yours?

>> And can I quote other people?

>> Sure.

>> I think the first one would be that life is short, but art is long.

I never fully understood that.

But through the last few years where I've become an author, I've realized I can impact a lot of people.

>> Yeah, that's cool.

>> So life is short, but art is long and having an opportunity to leave a bit of art has been a tremendous opportunity.

The second thing I would say is -- it really touched me.

I think people think he was being facetious, but Kafka said -- I think.

And I learned about these authors and stuff later.

I never read.

I didn't read much at all when I was young.

I was just rocking out.

And then -- But in the last 4 or 5 years of trying to put this -- trying to talk about the human brain and mind, you have to bring in artists and literature.

But he said the meaning of life is that it ends.

My cancer patients have shown me that is when you get that feeling of mortality, that it can be fuel for you to live.

>> Absolutely.

>> And the third thing is if you can...

This one's more mine.

If you're fortunate enough to find true love, take care of it so you don't lose it.

>> Mm.

My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

>> That elusive goal that no one achieves but keeps us striving for more.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Make sure to stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

♪ ♪ ♪