And now the 490 with Gretchen De Backer.

Matt, kill em and Kevin Mullen.

Welcome to the 419, powered by GT and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullen.

Gretchen debacker I kill him.

It is Wellness Wednesday, presented by our friends at work spring.

We're going to be tackling a topic that I'm excited about.

I am to, And it's it I'm not.

Well, but like you, but you and I are in similar spaces as, like, solo entrepreneurs that, like, the boss doesn't tell us what we do or don't do.

But we're going to be talking about, balance, flexibility.

Some hybrid work schedules and what's working, what isn't working.

And I'm really interested in like regionally, what is the trend?

Because there was a move, post-Covid away from the office and a bunch of, like, downtown corporate offices were shutting down or moving people to go remote and, like, reducing their footprint.

And so I'm curious, you know, now, six years later, where is that?

Are we are we coming back?

Are we staying there for what's the data back after presumably five years, I lose track of when we started thinking like this.

I don't mean just as a reflection of Covid, but, when we became a little bit out of the cave.

I know the answer is probably going to be in moderation, but we've got two, real experts in this space.

I'm interested to see, how they navigate not just, the truth of what YouTube just said.

But that is product or widget specific because there is a certain industries that lend themselves more to this.

How do you encourage or how do you draft on having that conversation at the watercooler, which, you know, makes an idea better?

And I'm excited to hear what you say.

Yeah.

Well, and we were talking before the show started about technology and AI and all of these tools.

And the three of us have three different levels of comfort.

Yes.

Say it.

Just say that with these.

Well, I think everyone knew that.

Gretchen.

Yeah.

Gretchen wouldn't do that.

Yeah, well, you've got Gretchen has got a printer.

Am I saying that right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you don't know how to use.

I can't read anything on the screen.

For real.

Well, I don't like to.

Well, I'm also in a different business.

And you guys, I have to have the printers are the same.

But then I have to print it out to read it.

Not emails.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

That's an interesting point of like, why in in the modern world, why do you need to print everything?

Because a lot of things I've taken to court with me.

Sure.

But like, the judge can't have a screen.

They do have a screen.

Okay.

All right.

Yes.

Yeah, we'll let you.

Hey, it's a it's a couple days.

Wait, what?

Can't you read?

I don't like reading.

Like.

Like, let's say, for example, on a case, there's medical records, and it's really something you have to really dive in and highlight it and have it ready, like for a trial.

I can't it can't be on in my opinion.

It can't be on a screen.

Gotcha.

Okay.

I don't think I would ever be able to change that.

I wish we could.

It's a couple days, a couple days after, but I'm still coming down the pike for one night.

It was so.

It was great.

And it's like.

And and as I looked out in the crowd and saw it was a real crowd, too.

Yeah.

Like some of the people that I really look up to in Toledo, that like when they show up, you're like, oh, I know I'm in the right room.

And they were in that room.

Yeah.

And it's just like it was cool to be a part of that.

So we're having the best day of his life.

It was.

He had so much fun.

He's such a good guy.

I don't know if I should say this, but I'm going to, But he had said to me, if that if we hadn't done the show, they're like.

They weren't normally open on Sunday.

They opened.

They wouldn't have been open.

Yeah.

And so like, would give me sour dough bread.

He didn't make me say, I know.

That's what I said to I was furious.

I enjoyed it mostly because it made you too mad.

But yeah, I also noticed there was a great photo, that, I feel like maybe Mary record posted.

Like, great to be with all of my friends.

I mean, where did it in the photo?

Yeah.

Awesome.

Did you guys invited me to be a part of that?

But huge thanks to our guests.

It was a great show.

Elaine Trudel from Live Arts, Toledo, Charles Lucas, county commissioner Pete Gerken and Chalmers Wormley.

Yeah.

My my son.

When he walked up into the seat, my son said to my wife, finally somebody with bigger muscles than me.

Yeah.

I was like, that's fantastic.

Yeah.

And it wasn't even close.

Pete.

That's right.

That's right.

All right.

So.

But that episode is going to air Friday.

Yes.

Here on the 419.

If you missed it, you can check it out.

7 a.m.

on YouTube, 3 p.m.

on FM 91, 6 p.m.

on connects, of course online at GT Dawgs.

The four, one 9 or 20 473 65 on the new and improved GT app.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we will dive into Wellness Wednesday presented by Works Spring.

Support for the 419 comes from Whetro Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is personal.

Advisory services are offered through capital investment advisory services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra, SIPC.

More information at whetroadvisors.com The 419, powered by WGTE is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome into the 419.

It's wellness Wednesday.

We've got Drew Peterson, an air consultant with work spring.

Joining us through.

Thanks for being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Excited to be here.

We've got an interesting topic today.

Talking about flexibility and boundaries.

Some of the remote work, kind of structure.

I guess maybe let's just, like, before we dive into that, like, what do you think?

Let's cut into the boundaries and talk about you personally.

Yes.

That's right, that's right.

Go right past.

Yeah.

What did you have for breakfast?

What's your biggest fear?

Right.

What what what what exactly is an HR consultant with work?

Spring?

Yeah, sure.

So I specifically work on different projects.

So we do, like, compensation work and and book work, things like that.

But I also actually support a few members, as are HR representatives of smaller organizations who don't have that distinct HR person.

Sure.

It must be kind of interesting to kind of dip in and out of those, yes, different areas.

I know that probably similar themes, but unique also.

Which company are you most glad you don't actually work for?

Just one.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

How sick are you?

Have the Drew Pearson jokes about your name in the murder?

See, I don't I don't get them as much anymore.

So it's funny that you say that.

Usually I bring it up.

Yeah.

Sure.

As an icebreaker.

I think I was in elementary school, and people had a heyday with that.

Yeah, sure.

Sure.

My last name is Kill Them, and it's still.

People still make the joke.

They always think you're the first ones to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I get it.

Clever.

At least no one can search me, which I know.

Come up under.

Go.

It's exactly right.

Quick, take a quick vote if we think you did or not.

Oh, you did it.

Did it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

It was found guilty.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that true.

That's right.

People's courts on every.

What is what is I say about that?

Yeah.

So as we look at, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of you have this opportunity to obviously do the work at, at works bring you've got a couple companies you work with.

I think Gretchen that's like is there commonality between the two.

Is it like you know you sort of get to like experiment on the outside people that to get it right inside or.

Yeah definitely.

Because I also work on our HR hotline within work spring.

So I'm answering employers questions and it's more of a little bit more application.

When I'm going out with members and doing it.

But I mean, we have members in all different industries.

So I'm sure you guys understand that it changes quite a bit.

What's the most common question you get on that hotline?

Another good question.

Are people crying?

Not usually calling in.

It's just not me.

Yeah.

Usually it's someone in HR department of one who just want some reassurance.

Really?

Yeah.

Whether it be a disciplinary situation.

Yeah.

An FMLA question.

That's pretty common as well.

Yeah.

So this one in another HR mind to kind of run it off of.

Yeah.

We have a theme, today about boundaries and workplace in the modern and I it had to have changed so much over the last five years, both in one way and then back and then back and forth.

So I don't even know what modern means anymore.

Sure.

So do you mind?

At the risk of putting a specific definition to an entire field of multiple industries and different widgets being made, what what is the modern workplace?

How is it defined?

I would say it's a little bit more flexible, like you said.

I think the hybrid model is getting more popular.

With you know, so many days in the office, so many days working from home, the ability to work from home if you need to, even if you're supposed to technically be in the office.

But having that flexibility a little bit more with people's schedules.

What's your data telling you or their surveys telling you about the reasons?

I mean, that just seems obvious, but the reasons that people want to work from home, what are the benefits to the employee to working from home?

I think they have great reasons.

I mean, the commute, first of all, that's typically, a lot of the information or data I've seen is really, truly just, being able to focus better at home.

Not having those distractions.

I think there's also the element, though, that if you're not in the office, you don't have that collaboration piece of it.

Sure.

I personally like to be in the office.

Even on the days that we can work from home.

So, it's definitely different in the office when it's a little bit quieter and people are working from home.

Gretchen can't get your printer to work.

Can she call the hotline if that's an issue?

I could maybe help you out.

Yeah.

So you're thinking about you.

Are you sure?

You you're you're you're a remarkably effective professional.

Those rare moments when you call the Geek Squad and the geek is on the other line.

Yeah, that's in there.

What they tend to do is.

Gretchen, I'm gonna get you to leave.

I need to just unplug the printer and throw out the window to.

It's the last time I tried turning it on and on.

As I say, that's going to be their first thing.

Yeah.

Let me try powering down.

Yes.

When I started my consulting company, I was working from home.

Right.

Because that's like, all I had.

And that was fine.

Started in July.

That that, like, the rest of that summer was fine.

The school year was fine.

And I just sort of built my schedule around the school day.

So let's get everything done when the kids come home, like, I'm good to go.

But then once the next summer came along, right, I was like, I need to have a plan because I can't like the distractions, right?

Darn kids.

There's no way I'm going to be able to focus and get work done.

We don't have kids.

I don't.

That's right.

It's weird.

But I got I got an office, and going into the office made work feel real.

Yeah.

And, you know, even though, like, I was the only one go in there, it just still, like, felt like that, that.

We seen, you know, so this, this is a hybrid of sort of here to stay.

What does the data say is that, is that working?

I think depending on the company, obviously, a lot of companies too are requiring, you know, remote to hybrid or hybrid to more days in the office.

So I think that trend is definitely there.

You know, we're six years past Covid where yeah, all of that started.

So I definitely think there's that trend of the shift back to the office.

People can see the gaps, leadership can see the gaps of, you know, remote work and not having that collaboration piece, especially, I think, when smaller organizations and some larger organizations, I mean, that can just be their model.

And, you know, they find success in that.

And they may have even been doing that prior to Covid anyways.

Is it a productivity issue?

I mean, is there is there real data to suggest that if people work hybrid or work from home, that they're not as productive as they are in the office?

I don't think so.

I think it's more of a, accountability performance accountability issue.

If you're having an employee who is not, you know, performing or you're questioning where they are doing their duties, I think that's more of a, you know, one on one issue that needs to be handled rather than, you know, policy change for everyone because I, I'm sure most people or even more people are productive at home rather than in the office.

We're talking with your Petersen HR consultant with Work Spring.

I'm on that same line.

I'm curious if you're, you know, if you're a company or an employee that's trying to get your company to move in a particular direction.

What's the right way to evaluate or figure out what's right for y Trying it out.

Testing it.

If you have that opportunity.

You know there have been times where we've had to work from home and we were switching offices, so, that made me realize I don't want to work from home full time.

But, you know, every once in a while on a Friday, it's nice to, kind of wind down and get things done by yourself.

It's probably, to my knowledge, it's an, not, not frequently asked question, but has it changed management at all?

Because it has to, to some degree.

Right.

It used to be able to walk down the hallway or have that connection, or at least have it.

It was easier or forced you to have critical conversations.

Right?

But now are you are you finding five years later, six years later, having to talk to management, how management needs to change because you're talking to a screen, or you're seeing people intermittently so you're not picking up on body language or.

Yeah, you, you know, everyone almost.

I mean, there are conversations you have to have in the, in the workplace that are unpleasant, right?

If you are walking by their office, you kind of have to have it.

So has the paradigm of what management now needs changed a bit.

Are you coaching people differently?

I think you hit the nail on the head with body language tone.

I mean, we live in a world where you can send a teams message or an email, but you don't necessarily know what that how that is coming off from the person.

So the shift there is, definitely, you know, one off conversations or different things that are easier to do when you're in person or right down the hall from someone rather than having to, set up a phone call or, have a meeting that way.

So obviously those conversations, if, it is like management employee difficult conversations that need to happen.

I would definitely recommend being in person tonight.

You know, there's still that opportunity to have people come in, or at least an in person, or a, like, teams video message to see someone face to face.

So that's one of the boundaries that I think is quite sort of like broken a little bit.

Is that pre-COVID, there were two types of meetings in in-person or on the phone.

Yeah, right.

That was it.

And now I feel like almost everything has become a virtual meeting.

Right.

It's a zoom or a teams meeting.

Yeah.

And you know, again, you know, the the adage in the workplace is like this is a meeting that could have been an email, right?

And I feel like every email has now become a zoom meeting.

And so it's things that could have been a quick phone call.

That could have been a quick email.

Now it's like, hey, let's hop on zoom and talk through this.

Yeah.

And it's so much more intrusive than a phone call that I feel like I've got to have my office tidied up in a way, and I've got to be buttoned up.

I gotta put pants on, like these different things.

I'm already in the office.

Yeah, I had to take the printer out of the box.

That's right.

But but I mean, are.

Is that part of how we talk about, like, setting boundaries is also like having some expectations on what actually constitutes a meeting?

When or why do we need zoom versus just a a quick phone call.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think that obviously comes from management down.

And what the standard is that they're going to set.

And it typically needs to be addressed because it is an issue coming up.

And that's when that's when it gets addressed.

But yeah, whether it's a quick chat that you can send, but also sometimes team chats can be, distracting when you're doing something and it's popping up on the side.

So I think it's really just your style.

In the companies kind of culture overall and what they want it with, how do you talk to people through?

I know there's predictive indexes or personality studies, helping people sort of coach or put tools, in the toolkit for people individually.

How do you work through what the best methodology for specific teams or industries is?

So you look at the but let's say we all make a widget, and we are a three person company that has a workforce of 50.

Do you help prescribe the amount of days people should be in and how they communicate?

How do you how do you coach people through, that strategy?

Yeah, I think was the personality test that gives you a lot of information on how to work with someone.

What to say and what not to say, or how to approach a subject, depending on how they might take it.

The whole in person, or remote, though I think it really is kind of a, at a grander scale than diving that deep into it.

I haven't really seen, other than just people wanting to work from home.

If that opportunity is there and you can kind of identify, you know, what someone's personality is or how they work the best, whether it be hybrid in person.

But I think giving that more flexible schedule overall makes employees happier and more productive.

What is the best are a methodology for other than traditional productivity, and maybe that's just the right answer.

How do you gauge whether or not the the workforce or your layout is functioning, meaning hybrid approach?

Because I imagine, like if it's not working, the identifier that it's not working like is it is too late.

Right.

It's like I mean, it'd be like, oh, that was a mistake.

Yeah.

And so at that point it's too late.

So, I guess I'm interested.

Like if there's like a lot of ways you're measuring that.

What are the, like the benchmark.

What do you measure when you say, like, maybe this is moving in the right direction?

I will tell you, conversely, I remember when we were doing online interviews, I remember someone saying on our team over for the past year, okay.

And someone's saying, well, we'v we're we're not nailing this interview process, on the phone or on, on virtual meetings.

And we're thinking we weren't nailing it.

We were doing it in person.

Yeah, but I am curious as to how what how do you know if this is working or not?

To Kevin's point.

It depends, you know.

Sure.

I'll answer.

I think if you have, you know, a standard performance management system in place, you can easily track that.

But again, I think a lot of times there is a shift or a jump because one person does something wrong and there's an assumption that everyone is doing that.

Sure.

So I think that if you are having the same, you know, productivity that you were when you were in the office or you were seeing, you know, the same trends or growth or whatever it may be, you know, maybe it is working to have a more flexible, but if you're having employees, one or multiple who are you feel are not being as productive as they were in the office, then maybe that setup is not right.

Maybe they need a little bit more structure or accountability for their day, that sort of thing.

Because when it comes down to it, it is a privilege to be able to work from home 100%.

That's true.

Yeah.

In the in the academic setting.

Right.

There's this, you know, rise in IEPs.

Individualized education plans.

ADHD is on the rise.

Is is this also somewhat of a workplace response to some of that as, as those folks get into the workforce?

That's a good point that I haven't really considered that much, honestly.

Just because he said it, that's usually a sign.

It isn't a good point.

I'm going to work remotely for the rest of the week, but that's a good point that, you know, workplace or working remote could be an accommodation potentially, for, you know, an Ada accommodation, that sort of thing, which some people don't understand, especially if they have a strict in office.

And usually that's the very last option is a remote accommodation.

But, you know, someone might work better being by themselves and not distracted.

And that might be a better accommodation for them.

So I have a Drew Petersen, HR consultant with work sprang here on a wellness Wednesday presented by Work Sprague Drew.

You mentioned, that you also manage the hotline at work spring.

Can we share that that number of people have questions, where they can reach out and get Ahold of you?

Yeah.

So, you could actually go to our website.

It is a members only hotline.

So it's a benefit of your membership.

There.

But our website is work spring.org.

For more information.

Awesome.

Drew, thank you so much.

We're going to take a break when we come back.

Well, welcome back to the show.

Sara O'Banion, another HR consultant with work.

Spring.

To dive in a little bit deeper into this topic here on a Wellness Wednesday.

We'll be right back.

To me, community means connecting to others.

I'm Dani Miller and welcome to the Point.

I lost it yesterday.

We're a community committed to education.

Discover new ideas, dive into exciting subjects, and engage with the world around you.

I would send them personally a t shirt.

Crime doesn't pay in the old West End.

Pass it on.

That's how we cleaned up the neighborhood.

Vision loss for people is not the end.

It's the story.

It's the next chapter.

There we go.

Public media invites you to get out and play day.

Monday through Friday.

It's the 419 powered by W GT with Matt Gillum, Gretchen de Backer, I'm Kevin Mullen.

What can people expect on the show?

Give me an hour.

A reminder of why this is a great place to live, work and play.

Where you come to watch, listen and learn.

Welcome back into the 419.

It's Wellness Wednesday presented by Works Break.

We're joined now and welcoming back a friend of the show that if you're an HR consultant with work spring.

Jenna, thank you so much for being here.

Absolutely.

One of my favorite guests of all time.

I'm not just saying, oh, you are just saying I'm sure I. That's not true.

No, no.

He says to everybody that said, it's his favorite.

Hey, there you go.

That's even better, right?

So look at that.

I've never said that.

Andrew was wonderful.

First we're meeting for the first time, but, you were one of my favorite guests.

Super fun.

And I want to talk before we get into the drudgery of work.

Yes.

Talk to me a little bit about the summer you are traveling a little bit or can I go with you?

You can?

Yes.

It's a short trip, but it's very quick.

Right.

So we're going to Fremont and back.

No.

Yeah.

So last time on the show, you know, I mentioned I've got two daughters, one who is graduating.

So starting this week, actually, for the next probably 30 days, 35, 40 days is going to be crazy pandemonium.

So I hope everybody at my office is going to bear with me through all of that stuff.

But my older daughter, who is just finishing up her second year at Ohio State, will be coming home for a couple weeks and then heading overseas for an internship over the summer in Armenia, assuming, wow, there's a lot going on right over there in that part of the world.

So as of right now, it's still on.

So that's the plan for her.

So tell me about parenting in this part of, of your life.

There's a lot of really big things happening.

There is, I'm sure their questions are getting more complicated, but you're in your day job may help with some of the career conversations you're having here.

What are the girls asking you?

What advice do they need?

So it's interesting, at least from the perspective of human resources and moving them, you know, to start thinking about their careers, their jobs and so forth.

There's a whole other world out there.

So, you know, kudos to those individuals who know exactly what they want to do into school and all of these things, too.

But there is a whole other world out there.

And so I have no problem when they say, well, I'm not quite sure.

Yeah, okay.

Start undecided.

I mean, granted, it's a lot of money to go in undecided to some of these schools, right.

So there's that whole side of it.

But it's just as much money forced into something.

Correct?

Correct.

Or be miserable.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I think those are the kinds of lessons that I talked to them quite a bit about, as well as the fact that, you know, don't put everything on social media because back in my day, you had to get your camera and your film, you know, and take it to the store and get it printed, right.

Now, that's a whole component that people need to think about.

And so sometimes it's good to be an HR.

They say for me, or sometimes it's bad because I always lecture them on that.

It doesn't matter how old they are.

So I love some point.

They will appreciate having that.

Yeah.

Right now, in the moment, I imagine there's I think about, you know, my own kids that like there's lessons that I like to think that aren't landing today.

Some point they'll be like, oh yeah, that was that was helpful.

That was kind of smart.

I think with the old adage, though, right?

Is you think your parents are fools from when you're like 14 to, 23, and then one day you're like, who are these geniuses?

Yes.

And something clicks in two places where they are in their lives.

I would think that being a real you would be a real resource.

Right now, a set of.

Forgive me, I know that we talked about this first time you're on, but speaking of knowing your career path.

When you were little set up, which I presume was exactly the same height you are today.

I might have been a little taller.

You know, people as they age.

They.

That's right.

Dude, you may just make your spine absolutely up my vertebra.

Never been so close after my, youngest.

But this was a your parents were like, you're going to do this?

Or or they wanted to set your path.

You always knew you wanted to work with people.

How did you get to, this profession?

So I actually initially, started off, I was going to work in operations.

You know, and do more operational management and those types of things.

And then I kind of moved into a training role, which led me into human resources, because I do like the people side of it.

Yeah.

And although anymore it's not just the people side.

I mean, if I really had it in me, I figured I should have just gone to law school because there's the it's a different world now.

Right?

And so working in human resources or back in the day, as it was called, personnel, is a lot different.

Yeah.

So you have to kind of morph and adapt as those things go along.

The ways are different because the workplace hours are so different.

We know more or the people are asking more work.

I mean, we're talking more about boundaries today, but as we get more sophisticated, does it become more challenging or is it just as different?

I think it's a combination of things because the world has adapted.

Technology you've talked about has come into play as well too, right?

Everything is instantaneous information.

So it's always it's a constant, you know, I mean, like, that doesn't stop all of those things.

So I do think that it's a combination of all different types of things.

So I think it's interesting as we think about like the decisions that an employer would make around, you know, remote work, hybrid, any of these situations.

And basically every conversation we've had on our Wellness Wednesdays, all comes back to to some extent, I feel like that just being a decent person, exactly.

Caring about other people.

And I think the challenge then becomes, how do you scale that or how do you, as we talk about boundaries, right?

How do I care about Gretchen as a coworker without crossing a boundary, without like, you know, caring about her more than I care about Matt, just for example?

That just is a good sense.

Yeah, but I tell you, I know you're right.

How we turn that compassion into a system, I think is is where the challenge becomes, are there, you know, keys to that?

Or is as someone is, you know, developing as a manager or they're, you know, trying to manage up other ways that that you can kind of say, hey, here's how you turn like a you're you're a naturally decent human being, but you really suck as a boss.

And here's how we can do that.

You know, I think it's it's interesting.

I think this is just my opinion.

Right?

Part of as part of it is innate as well with individuals, right?

As they become leaders and want to become leaders and so forth, and grow on those things.

But I think that you as a leader to be a quote unquote, I guess, good boss, decent boss, all of those things, part of it's innate, but part of it is also that you have to be honest and real with your coworkers, your peers, your superiors, whatever that looks like.

Right?

Respectfully, I mean, I think it all comes back to communication and how you also communicate with people, too, because whether it's online, when you're communicating right, which can be misread.

You talked about that earlier, right?

The you can't see somebody is physical cues all the time.

And you're typing something and it just comes across the wrong way.

All of those types of things, there is a multitude of different things that you kind of have to think about when you are communicating.

And that is, I think, also a trick when you are looking into leading or managing.

Those are some of the things that I would tend to focus on with individuals is the the very nature of employers, and, and supervisors and bosses caring about, you know, engaging at that level with employees.

The change over the last 50 years, I mean, that's not what the workplace used to be about.

You would go in, you do your boss and you know, you there was there wasn't a concern about what else was going on in the person's life or how it w be affecting their work.

Is that really the case?

Is that really the case?

And that's what I'm wondering.

I think some of it has shifted.

Right.

Because that's something we're not telling you by no means, you know, do you have to go in there and know all the details about somebody?

Right.

But if you at least have a conversation, you know, say hello when you come into the office in the mornings.

I had a supervisor who would not say anything.

And you never knew what kind of mood they were in when they came in in the morning.

And I remember saying to myself, I'm not going to be like that.

Yeah.

When I get to this point, I want to at least, you know, even if they say, hey, how we well, yes, they do, because they see it on my face within two seconds.

Right.

So that's a whole other conversation picking up on it now.

But you know, little things like that without again going back to boundaries.

There are certain things that you know, in your environment, in your culture, every organization is going to be a little different.

But I feel that, yes, it has shifted.

I think it's such a fascinating concept.

Right?

I mean, think of almost everything is like a thermostat, or, or there's a it's just back and forth, gets too cold, it clicks on turns heat, vice versa.

And this isn't to say these are fads or because these are human beings that we're talking about, but we're so complicated and so simple.

Meaning we want to have workplaces that listen to employees to essentially make them more effective at creating X, Y, and Z. Yeah, more performance steps.

And that's certainly okay.

Right.

People are in the business of businesses and selling those things for their families and keeps their lights on and things of that variety.

But there is something to be said for punching in and punching out.

So if I become close to my boss in my workplace, it does make it more difficult to clock out.

Two right?

And yes, I have the great fortune of having a great job working for Michigan.

I believe in, wholeheartedly.

It does make it difficult to not have it be 24 over seven.

I'm like you because I care.

Gretchen, your microphone is a mistake.

I've said it a million times, but there are employees who don't want, you know, it's such a complicated thing.

Yeah, that's why I was saying once that that really that connection.

Yes.

They want to come in, do their work and leave.

Right.

And that's okay.

That's okay.

I mean, and like you said too, sometimes, you know, I wish I had a job where I can just, you know, come and do what I need to do and then turn it off and move on right to the next day and not have things that continue to go along with you.

Yeah, well, you're shouting, you're driving.

You're like, I should, Exactly.

Unfortunately with employers, is it when you talk about hybrid work or working from home, is the assumption always that people just aren't working?

I'm not going to say always.

Right.

But, you know, drew mentioned this too.

Sometimes I think we tend to focus on the 1 or 2 as opposed to the masses.

Right.

And the problem is, and I think that every leader is a little different.

Right?

It's a oh, this one person's doing this and it sticks in your head.

So you start to assume that others are doing that.

But I think that again, we need to, as companies and organizations, you know, realize that you've put a lot more effort your percent of time on those 1 that aren't performing than the masses that are doing the right thing and what they need to do.

That's always been true, right?

That isn't just up to you, right?

Right.

What the old, saying, right.

You put 80% effort into the small amount.

I think that we try to do this even in park design and operations.

We don't govern to our worst meaning we don't not build parks and places because of some absolutely unfounded idea that someone's going to steal something or spray paint.

Are they going or is someone going to do that?

Yeah, we have 420,000 people that we, serve.

But it's is, I think about like in a workplace.

Right.

So do you say, hey, we've got this, hybrid work environment where you can work from home, you can work from home when you need to, right?

Just tell us and we'll let it be flexible.

And then you've got 1 or 2 bad actors that are abusing this.

Do you have to eliminate that policy for everybody, or can you say like, no.

Yeah.

You lost that ability, but everybody else still has.

But it must.

A profound difference, though, between doing it at home and watching YouTube on your computer, at your desk with the door closed.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think the people that are that are bad employees, that are they're going to do it wherever it is.

Right?

So again, it goes back to it being a what are you doing from a leadership's perspective to monitor the performance?

Where is that accountability, those types of things?

No, I don't think you take it away.

I do think that you need to have guidelines when you have policies surrounding, you know, what your workday looks like and what flexible workday is per se.

But it all is going to come back to the accountability across the board for individuals, right?

I, I'm interested also in the monitoring part.

If companies that are still, either fully remote or hybrid, are companies still I mean, this was big during Covid, it seemed like.

But I haven't heard much about it lately.

But these monitoring software about their mouse clicks and, you know, the times they're on the computer and all that kind of stuff.

Is that still widely used in your experience?

I, you know, it was there before Covid even.

I think people it just became a bigger thing when Covid happened.

But I'll give you an example.

I have a relative who is a nurse case manager, 15, 20 years in working from home.

Right.

And they monitored her productivity.

Right.

And you had to when you signed off in the lunch breaks were all kind of, you know, sequenced and so forth.

So I think in certain industries they still do that.

Obviously, if you're in a service type of industry where you're picking up calls and doing those types of things, you have to have those schedules and those specifics going through.

So the only time I've ever implemented that software to it, to an employee was someone that I knew wasn't doing the job right.

And I could have just if I had the autonomy to just go, yeah, you don't work here anymore.

But I had to almost set them up to fail, which is really unfortunate, but it was like I needed the data to go back to, the rest of the board to.

So, like this, I mean, the the outcomes aren't there.

The effort also isn't there.

And here's the data that proves it.

And ultimately, the employee left before we even got to that point because they were so annoyed by the obscene micromanagement that was.

Well, you now have software that's like your monster, your aggression on the show.

So, talk to me a little bit, on a, on a personal level, what's an ideal format to work for you?

For me?

Yeah.

What do you like?

And what do you not.

So I work hybrid right now.

Great.

As drew mentioned, there's a couple individuals on the HR team that do come into the office every day.

Right?

But we have flexibility to work hybrid a couple days of the week.

I like being hybrid myself.

Some days I will come in on those off days as well too.

But for me, it's kind of a balance between the two.

I don't think I could ever work remote completely.

I mean, it's just not.

Not my thing.

So.

Absolutely insane.

Yeah, yeah, you could.

You had mentioned, when we talk about, like, flexibility, there's there's different definitions to that.

Sure.

You know, we talk about hybrid work environment from home, but flexibility can mean more than just.

Yeah, it could be, like a compressed workweek.

Right.

Somebody may be working for instead of five days a week.

It could be flexibility of starting and stopping times, like you have these core hours, you know, 8 to 5, and you could offer people to come in between like seven and nine and then, you know, flex that at the bottom too.

So there's different, job sharing in some circumstances.

Right?

I think that there is something to be said to allow for individuals to, you know, still get their work done and then also be empathetic for their needs and so forth.

So awesome that are thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Here.

Thanks for listening.

You're joining us.

I was, do you hear anything else?

I have no idea.

Just how do we implement a hybrid work environment for this show?

Oh, my goodness, I don't know.

Like I said, I have you set up.

You absolutely can.

I would love to have you there.

Yes, I guess my dog would love that.

This.

That's probably offensive, but I going to take it as a go.

You could take your dog there and yeah there you go.

Play date.

Yeah.

You have a dog.

I don't wanna talk about.

Okay.

All right.

We'll take a break.

We'll be right back on the 419.

Support for the 419 comes from Whetro Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is personal.

Advisory services are offered through capital investment advisory services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra, SIPC.

More information at whetroadvisors.com work.

Spring HR issues and employee well-being go hand in hand.

Work spring supports employers through compliance, training and wellness.

Because healthy workplaces don't happen by accidents.

Learn more at work.

Spring dawg.

Toledo Refining Company, a subsidiary of PDF energy.

Toledo Refining Company is a supplier of fuels that keep our region moving.

Located in Oregon, Ohio, the refinery processes crude oil into gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, and other petroleum products.

and Tada!

Celebrating its 55th year of connecting Northwest Ohioans to their community.

More information@tada.com.

Welcome back in to the 419, powered by GT.

At one point in the show, Matt, you reached over and and sprayed during the interview.

Hand sanitizer.

In my water.

In the water.

I have you brought back such bad memories to me.

Is that happening?

Before I had when I was it.

This is I know you love stories about my early work career.

I worked at President Tuxedo.

Yeah, and one of my coworkers and I, like we would randomly get into, like, sort of, like, spray water bottles for all to read in tuxedos.

And so you'd, like, spray it and steam it, so it all the stuff, so it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, how do you think you alter a tuxedo to fit someone like, oh, those things about their kid.

But you do.

You would do the sewing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the part where I think you can dance a sock.

Yeah, yeah.

Please don't talk like that.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

So we are, in a, like, somewhat square gunfight around the office because it was a day with.

No, I think it's for gunfights.

Is a binary state.

Either you are.

You are not a kind of.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

That's fair, but it was like, yeah, you just, like, randomly catch somebody.

You pick up a square bottle and spray, and she reached and grabbed the squirt bottle, sprayed me right in the face.

It was Windex.

Oh, it hurts so bad.

Oh you're kidding.

Windex is painful.

Interesting.

The chemical.

Yeah, but again, it's another job that no one ever knew that Kevin had was the one he's showing.

Tuxedo.

That's right.

Yeah, of course that's part of the job.

Yeah.

Yeah I sold him and I sort of.

Okay.

What's the worst job you've ever had, Kevin.

Man, that's what that's telling you, man.

That's right.

Yeah.

I was at one time, I was the host of a talk show with a couple of friends.

No, no, no, I probably Lonestar Steakhouse.

Oh, my God, I was going to say Ponderosa.

Yeah, probably.

I was just.

You were going to be, like, working in a restaurant.

Like you.

Just like I saw it too much.

Yeah.

But I've had, like, I've had bad bosses then that sure makes like the the work I liked.

But the boss, I didn't.

Yeah.

And so that makes things hard 100%.

Yeah.

I in years was what was my I was what actually my first job but same thing.

It was very eye opening but I was the salad bar girl at Ponderosa.

Yeah.

And it was just disgusting.

Yeah, yeah.

Dirty.

And the people were wild.

It was just it's it's since been torn down.

Rightfully so.

This was the Ponderosa, at Westgate.

Yeah.

Did you walk up there?

No, I was super cool.

I would get driven sometimes, but I tried.

We had this little Plymouth horizon because my brother and I were both driving at the time.

Okay.

And so I would that's that's a I would try to just like, yeah, it's a car.

It was like it was like a super cool car.

Yeah.

It was red hatchback.

But I was like, I love cars.

Yeah.

I would just really go out to the driveway and be like, wow, I'm going to work.

My mom would be like, what do you think you're going like, there's four other people here than your car.

Yeah, you're just going to drive up there and like, well, I know I'm going to work.

And so right now just try to put food on the table.

Well, one giant table.

Yeah.

One giant.

But how about you?

I've never had a bad job.

I had done bad jobs.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, yeah, I the worst part of a job I've ever had was, When I was a kid, I bagged groceries and intermittently, you would have to clean the shelves at the grocery store, so you'd have to roll a cart down, take all the canned goods off said shelf, wipe it down, put all the cans back on, and that TDM was just excruciating for me.

Yeah, but I am very lucky to say that I've always liked my jobs.

Yeah, I've had the tedious eye.

The job that I should have said was I worked at Dana Corporation on the grounds crew.

Yeah.

And one whole summer.

I'm not kidding.

For the entire summer, we painted that white fence that's on Door Street.

Oh my God.

And so it's like every day I would drive the golf cart back out to where we left off and then just spend the whole day with white paint outside in the heat.

It was.

How long did that?

The whole summer.

Two and a half months in between.

I would really that would make me.

Yeah.

And would you have headphones or stuff on it?

That's how we just talk.

We would listen.

Oh my God, listen to the radio.

Even hearing that is like strangers to me.

Didn't know the people.

I mean, it was like, yeah, but you got to know.

Yeah, yeah yeah I that going and just counting time.

Actually now that I mention it, my there's another one I got.

I worked for my uncle one summer and I was basically their receptionist, but it was a summer, so.

And they were they sold steel and they would go to lunch, which that was an air quotes for those of you were listening.

Which would mean they would go golf.

So I was in this windowless office for an entire summer.

I didn't know what we did.

So I couldn't help the team.

When they called, I just took notes, and I was a first time and last time in my life that, I was actually counting the clock to some degree, and it was brutal.

So I realized that that sounds like an incredible amount of privilege, which I, I am grateful for, but I man alive.

I had a summer job where I won literally every contest the day that I was qualified to win again, every radio contest, because it was like there was nothing else to do other than listen to the radio.

And then I would call in with like, where were you?

Where were you?

And, I was managing an apartment complex.

So, again and so I was on the like, I was on a crew renovation and I so I was on the crew renovating University Hills apartments.

Yeah.

And I went to the owner of the property, and I said, like, I just I like working with people, and I feel like it's a waste having me work with sinks.

Yeah, yeah.

And he was like, that was a family.

The sinks from.

That's right, that's right.

Yeah.

And he was like, well they're very good.

Why don't you go back to work and finish the rest of the sinks?

Yeah.

And then he called me weeks later, and he had been appointed by the courts to manage a couple properties.

And so he put me at the properties.

I was like, well, I get I also worked at the Jersey rectory as the weekend secretary, and I cooked dinner for the priests.

I knew that actually was the shortest duration you've ever had for for a job.

Oh, man.

This.

No, this is, interesting story.

I'll maybe, other industry we say no.

So I worked at Cumulus.

So I would say that here, I don't know if I can or not.

Okay.

But I, was friends with, who's now the, like, general manager of the station.

Dana and I was venting to her that I was applying for jobs in the nonprofit sector, and getting turned down because they didn't know or didn't see recent management experience in my in my resume.

And she was like, well, come work for us.

If you enjoy it.

We'll promote you to manager and then you can use that to go get the job you want.

And I'm not kidding.

Three weeks into the job, I get a phone call from Cardinal Stritch, saying, you know, one for a vice president.

Yeah.

I went right into her office and she said, you're going to interview for the job.

And when you get it, you're fired.

Yeah.

And it was just like the right can say she was great.

Yeah.

Speaking of jobs we love, you've got a great job.

I do have a great job.

You not only do you wear the Metro Bronx brand every single day of your life, but you also live the mission.

We want to take a few minutes to talk about, such exciting things that are happening.

With, Metroparks Toledo, particularly this summer, June 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th, the watershed weekend down at, the Glass City River.

What can you tell us some details about that weekend?

Yeah, absolutely.

So it is the culmination, obviously, of a much larger project.

This watershed weekend specifically, is going to just be the celebration of the halfway point.

From a construction standpoint, for those of you that are unaware, the Metroparks.

Thanks.

To Lucas County residents, and a myriad of others, which I'll get to in a second, embarked on, a downtown plan, a downtown, project, if you will.

It wasn't originally a Metroparks idea.

It was born from the downtown, master plan, which I think is now ten plus years old, at least.

And it won't surprise anyone on this show or anyone, the listeners.

It was a great idea.

Brought, to bear, as a result of a bunch of people in the community getting together and asking, what if tomorrow were different?

Or kind of why not us?

Or how do we compete?

Right.

We talk a lot about, candidly, survival.

Right.

We are a flyover state.

We are suffering, at least from our, a region from population loss.

The state of Ohio, I think is up a little bit.

But, regardless, other than the three seas, you know, Ohio is it gets relatively challenged place and there's a lot of complexity as to why that's true.

But the downtown master plan highlighted a few things, one of which was that we have this river, right?

That birthed us a city.

I remember Dave speaking at Toledo Rotary.

Yeah.

I mean, this is I got to go.

Yeah, a long time ago.

And in th presentation, he click through some slides and showed some other city.

That's right.

And I feel like it was like Iowa or some like Texas some, some of you have really good memories, some insane city that was like downtown Iowa has an active riverfront.

So that that your memory is spot on.

What?

So from the downtown master plan, we, we and this was a little before my time, we started looking at benchmark cities that were like us, that were using their riverfront as opposed to what we were doing, which was, turning our backs on her.

We had one way streets going away from the riverfront.

We stored our industrial salt.

Right?

Was all industrial legacy.

Right.

So so those, again, weren't the poor decisions.

This is not a criticism.

For instance, rock salt comes in on a barge.

You might as well dump it there.

And it's easy to trucking.

Now, we weren't using the space, so, that's not that's just a good economical decision then.

But cities that look like us are had former manufacturing or automotive, Des Moines, and, Boise, Idaho, Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Right.

Which is not too far from us, even Columbus, although we're not, like in Columbus in several ways.

They have a riverfront, right?

But the cities that were using the riverfront effectively, you're putting one for every $1 of public money put in the riverfront.

There was somewhere between a seven and $20 return, from private investment.

Or attracting money.

And in classic Toledo form, I think, there was a lot of naysaying me.

Well, that won't happen here.

And the truth of the matter is, and maybe was based on the old saying, by hitting rock bottom, we were ready for this.

And, Gretchen, you were part of the administration.

That certainly helped this happen and continues to be a good, partner in this space.

70% of the riverfront, was owned by the city.

And we wouldn't be where we are today.

And where we are today is about do you cut the ribbon, if you will, the literally and metaphorically on the halfway point, which will be about a $300 million project?

I can't I mean, I just can't fathom that we're only at the halfway point.

And you look at what's already I mean, like the ribbon.

Yeah.

Is has quickly become one of the coolest million visitors last year.

So yeah.

To both of your points, you know, it was, we're at the halfway point in some of it feels like happened so fast and we've had a tremendous success.

And I'll get to that in a second.

Kevin.

But one of the challenges of a project like this is the appetite for focus, meaning we're very easily and I mean, we as the region chasing the next thing or get bored right, with something or want to do something else.

It's a long project.

And it will ultimately take will be done in 30, 32.

So it'd be at the halfway point.

Some people are like, oh, this is taking forever.

And it feels like that's some days, to us as well.

But the truth of the matter is, phase one and two have been open since, really the tail end to 2019.

We've seen 3 million visits to the East Side Park in a relative short amount of time.

So 3 million visits.

Again, just a reminder.

That's, October County of 420,000 people in the city of about 260, 270,000.

So that's a significant amount of people.

And those are just one way of measuring success.

Their bodies.

Right.

Secondly is the economic development portion of it we've seen it was $500 million with of development around the periphery of the projects.

But on the softer part of this, the amount of just mission based and joy that is coming there.

To your point, Kevin, we promised the people of northwest Ohio, Lucas County, specifically that this would be a 365, would be open and not, go by the wayside seasonal attraction.

And that's been true.

So we've had 250,000 people ice skating on the former Acme Power Plant.

Right?

It is in relative short order.

If it wasn't this past weekend turned into roller skating.

So people are doing stuff downtown.

We have a splash pad, right.

That that teaches kids about the the watershed.

We have giant play areas down there, and I can't emphasize this enough.

It can sound like hyperbole, but we are just just getting started.

And to lay it out for people just to visualize where it is, again, if they're unaware, with the Glen River walk is it's essentially bridge to bridge on both sides of the water, with engagement on both sides that it would incorporate the, Owens Corning world headquarters.

Imagination Station, all of the parks on both sides, all the way into the Vistula.

That's right.

Neighborhood.

And that weekend that we're talking about, that watershed weekend, June 11th, 12, 13th and 14th is going to be truly remarkable, if for no other reason than the Saturday of the weekend.

The Martin Luther King Junior Bridge is going to be shut down and the whole bridge is going to be engaged, full of, you know, the climbing wall and activities and all of the things that people can bring kids and families down to see the progress that's been made.

Yeah.

So, in a nutshell, the it's good to Gretchen's point, it is a five, five and a half mile loop connecting the Anthony Mary Bridge, the Craig Bridge on the east side jumps over to the west.

Just Julia all the way to the Anthony Wayne Bridge.

Great.

Commentary and great plug in for scoring.

Recently.

So that will be 300 acres of green space connected with, at minimum, one trail.

But the activation around it is just as important.

So you've got Toledo Pickle, which is a real class, space.

You've got real class amenities there.

The ribbon is a rip off of, mega Park in Chicago.

They have a giant bird play facility, which is a rip off of, play structure in Denver.

And again, we're just sort of getting started here.

The second half is going to have amenities.

Not exactly like that.

We're not gonna have ribbons.

You know, we're not gonna have a ribbon within five feet of every Louis County resident.

But we're going to have some commission and it's going to drive, even bigger ideas.

Is it going to be a soccer stadium?

Is it going to be some giant interactive art experience?

I don't know yet, and neither do we.

But it will be made better by all of us deciding that tomorrow should and can be different, and everyone gets to be included.

People want more information on Watershed Weekend.

Where do they find it?

Yeah, it's on our website, partially a.com watershed weekend.

You can Google.

The watershed name is important because it talks about the fact that we are in a critically and wonderful place ecologically.

We're on, the western basin of the Lake Erie.

Mommy River is important, and we're at a turning point, and we get to decide what our future is.

And if we decide together and plug in, put our money where our mouth is to some degree, but also line up, and volunteer and celebrate what we are not just about the Metroparks, it's about the zoo.

It's about the museum, it's about the imagination stations.

But the art commission, this is a great place to live, and it's time to be reminded of that and focus on tomorrow.

We'll take a break.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this Wednesday edition of the 419 Every day when you laugh with us, you learned with us a neighbor.

We made sure your child had with special memories that could only be provided.

PBS and you.

For generations, we've given you programs that made a difference.

Programs that entertain, inform and inspire.

And today is no different.

This is WGTE public media in Toledo.

It's where you belong.

Welcome back into the 419 Powered by Wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring.

Again.

Great.

Having drew on the show.

Yeah.

As well as well for me back that there just said it is one of my favorite guests.

Drew.

Obviously everyone who works spring has been wonderful.

But, you know, I do think it's so interesting this boundary conversation about where work should start and end from, everyone's happiness.

You can't craft everyone's perfect work relationship.

We can get into it.

Too much of work, by definition, is going to be work.

It should.

Right?

I'm going to call the hotline today.

And I think I've always like, just assumed that, like, folks in the nonprofit sector feel the deeper connection to their work than folks in the in the for profit sector.

I don't know that that's actually accurate.

I agree, but I think that this this reality that we take work home with us.

Yeah.

Is a challenge.

And so what we have a home life that that there's people that have plenty to do at their home too.

And so, you know, there's it's also okay to think, well, so thank you.

If you missed any part of the show, you can catch at 7 a.m.

on YouTube, 3 p.m.

on FM, 91 or 6 p.m.

on Connect channel 30.4, or of course, online.org/the 419.

It's the 419 powered by GT, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

The 419, powered by WGTE is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.