THE NUMBER OF OPIOID OVERDOSES IS ON THE RISE IN CENTRAL NEW YORK.

SHOULD THE STATE OPEN UP SAFE SITES FOR PEOPLE TO DO DRUGS?

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME IN FOR THIS WEEK'S SHOW ARE: KRISTI ANDERSEN FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE, AND LUKE PERRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

WELL PANEL, MORE AND MORE OF OUR NEIGHBORS IN CENTRAL NEW YORK ARE SADLY OVERDOSING ON OPIOIDS.

THE THE NUMBER IN CAYUGA COUNTY JUMPED 238% FROM 2019 TO 2020 SO THERE'S A CAMPAIGN UNDERWAY TO GET GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO TO OKAY A PILOT PROGRAM OF FIVE OVERDOSE PREVENTION CENTERS AROUND THE STATE.

AT THESE SAFE INJECTION SITES, PEOPLE CAN FIND CLEAN NEEDLES AND GET THEIR DRUGS TESTED FOR FENTANYL.

THEY CAN THEN TAKE THE DRUGS, WITH MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS NEARBY IN CASE OF PROBLEMS.

SOCIAL WORKERS WILL ALSO BE THERE TO HELP TALK TO THEM ABOUT GETTING INTO RECOVERY.

I'M WONDERING, KRISTI, ARE SUCH CENTERS A GOOD IDEA?

>> GIVEN THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, YES, I THINK THEY ARE PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA.

CERTAINLY WE SHOULDN'T BE CRIMINALIZING DRUG USE AS WE HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND JUST KIND OF ADOPTING THE IDEA THAT PUTTING PEOPLE AWAY, LOCKING THEM UP, THAT'S GOING TO DO ANY GOOD.

IT REALLY ISN'T OR HASN'T.

AND AS YOU SAY, THE DRUG OVERDOSE RATE HAS BEEN INCREASING DRAMATICALLY.

THIS MADE ME REALIZE THAT WE HAD-- THINKING ABOUT THIS MADE ME REALIZE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN A WAY ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO ON THIS SHOW, WHEN THE CITY ADMINISTRATION IN ITHACA WAS PROPOSING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

AND PRESUMABLY IT NEVER GOT COMPLETELY OFF THE GROUND BECAUSE BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW, BUT LOOKING BACK AT THEIR PLAN WAS IMPRESSIVE.

THEY WERE BASICALLY SAYING THAT IT'S A VERY EXTENSIVE PLAN, WORTH LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THAT DRUG PROBLEMS ARE THE RESULT OF OTHER THINGS, REALLY, OF MENTAL ILLNESS POSSIBLY, BUT ALSO LACK OF OPPORTUNITIES AND SO FORTH AND SO ON.

WE NEED BETTER TREATMENT FACILITIES AND THEY ALSO PROPOSE THESE SITES.

A SUPERVISED INJECTION SITE STAFFED WITH MEDICAL PERSONNEL AS A MEANS TO PREVENT FATAL AND NON-FATAL OVERDOSES THAT WOULD BE ACCOMPANIED, AS BARBARA SAID, AS ADVICE TO GET OUT OF THE DRUG HABIT.

PRIMARY CARE REFERRALS TO SERVICES, MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, HOUSING, SUBSTANCE USE SERVICES AND SO FORTH.

>> SO YOU ARE IN FAVOR.

>> YES, I'M IN FAVOR.

>> I THINK THE EVIDENCE FROM, YOU KNOW, THESE KINDS OF PROJECTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES IS VERY POSITIVE.

THEY'VE SHOWN THE ABILITY TO REDUCE NOT ONLY THE NUMBER OF OVERDOSES, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THE NUMBER OF DEATHS THAT OCCUR FROM OVERDOSES.

CANADA HAS DONE A VERY GOOD JOB IN THIS.

NOW I THINK THE ONE CRITICISM OF THESE PROGRAMS IS THAT THERE IS SOME IMPLICIT ACCEPTANCE OF DRUG USE AND I THINK THAT'S A TRADE-OFF THAT WE NEED TO MAKE IN TERMS OF DEALING WITH THESE REALLY DRASTIC INCREASES IN OVERDOSES AND DEATHS.

AND THERE ARE MANY PRECEDENTS TO THIS.

NEEDLE EXCHANGE PROGRAMS AND THE HANDING OUT OF CONTRACEPTIVES IN SCHOOLS ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO TREAT SOME OF THE SYMPTOMS OF VERY SERIOUS PROBLEMS, RECOGNIZING THAT, AGAIN, THERE IS A TRADE-OFF BETWEEN DEALING WITH THE PROBLEM AND IMPLICIT ACCEPTANCE.

>> I THINK IT WILL BE HELPFUL IN THE SHORT-TERM, AS POINTED OUT, TO HELP PREVENT OVERDOSES AND THE LIMITED EMPIRICAL STUDIES SHOW THESE CENTERS ARE HELPFUL IN DOING IT.

LEGALITY IS A PROBLEM.

IT VIOLATES THE CONTROLLED SUBSTAPSES ACT.

SO AT ANY TIME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD SHUT ONE OF THESE SITES DOWN IF IT WAS CREATED, WHICH IS PROBLEMATIC AND THEN HAVE YOU TO THINK ABOUT LOCATION.

MANY SITES ARE CENTERED IN URBAN AREAS WHICH MAKES SENSE BECAUSE OF THE DENSER POPULATIONS BUT WHAT WILL THAT DO TO COMMUNITIES, NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE BUSINESSESES LOCATED ALONG THESE LINES.

AND I-- AND I THINK THE LARGER PROBLEM DOESN'T ADDRESS THE ISSUE, WHICH IS THE DEMAND.

THESE POWERFUL DRUGS CHANGES THE CHEMISTRY IN PEOPLE'S BRAINS AND UNTIL WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO EFFECTIVELY TRANSITION PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM ADDICTION OFF THESE SUBSTANCES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS AND THESE TYPES OF SITES ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO ENABLE AN INTERNATIONAL DRUG TRADE THAT LEADS TO BILLIONS OF DOLLARS GOING TO CRIMINAL SINNED SYNDICATES.

HAVE I SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF DOING IT BUT IN THE SHORT-TERM I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

>> WOULD YOU PUT MORE RESOURCES INTO TAKING DOWN THE INTERNATIONAL DRUG TRADE OR ENFORCING LAWS AGAINST THAT SOMEHOW?

>> I'M INTERESTED IN HOW CHEMISTRY CAN BE USED TO CREATE THESE TYPES OF SUBSTANCES THAT HAVE LESS ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES.

SO IF YOU ARE GOING HAVE AN INJECTION SITE, LET'S INVEST IN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH TO CREATE OPIOIDS THAT WILL PROVIDE SOME OF THE SAME STIMULUS THAT PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM ADDICTION NEED, TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE DAY, BUT DOESN'T DO THE SAME THING TO THEIR BRAINS.

SO IT'S EASIER FOR THEM, OVER TIME, TO MAKE THE DECISION TO SEEK HELP.

BECAUSE NEW YORK STATE HAS A TON OF RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE WITH ADDICTION.

AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THEY SHOULD JUST OPT FOR IT AND NOT RUIN THEIR LIVES.

IT'S A HORRIBLE SITUATION THESE PEOPLE FIND THEMSELVES IN.

I THINK USING SCIENCE, RESEARCH, INVESTMENT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY TO HELP TRANSITION PEOPLE OFF THESE VERY DANGEROUS AND DAMAGING SUBSTANCES.

>> RICK, DO YOU THINK THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SHOULD CHANGE THE POLICY FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND ALLOW THESE?

>> I DO.

AS LUKE SAID, THERE IS ALWAYS THE POTENTIAL FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF SUING LOCALITIES.

THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE STANCE UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT THEY WERE AGAINST THESE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THERE IS A REAL ROAD BLOCK TO LOCALITIES STARTING THESE UP.

AND SO I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WOULD GO A LONG WAY TOWARD PILOTING SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS.

I THINK WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT THESE ARE PILOT PROGRAMS AND THEY WOULD BE PUT IN SMALL NUMBER OF LOCALITIES.

I THINK THAT THEY NEED TO GO NOT ONLY INTO URBAN AREAS BUT ALSO RURAL AREAS.

THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT NOW STRETCHES ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN STATES LIKE NORTH DAKOTA AS WELL AS IN LARGE CITIES.

AND WHILE THE LONG RUN GOAL, AS LUKE SAID, SHOULD BE TO TRY TO CHANGE PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR, IN THE SHORT RUN WE ARE SEEING ENORMOUS CASE LOADS, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND FAMILIES DEVASTATED BY THIS PROBLEM.

I THINK WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW.

THE FIRST STEP WOULD BE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO AT LEAST SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO AFTER AND TRY TO SHUT DOWN SOME OF THESE CLINICS AND THESE PROJECTS.

>> KRISTI, LUKE MENTIONED SOME OF THE CONCERNS AND THE WHOLE NEEDLE EXCHANGE THING.

AND IN THE NEW PANDEMIC RELIEF PLAN, THERE IS LIKE $30 MILLION FOR THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS.

CAN YOU SEE WAYS BESIDE OPENING THE CENTERS THAT THAT MONEY COULD BE USED?

>> EL WITH, I THINK ONE-- WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS IT COULD BE USED IS TO HAVE THE SERVICES AVAILABLE IN OTHER PLACES THAT ALREADY EXIST, HOSPITALS, MEDICAL FACILITIES, WHEREVER THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO BE ADDED TO THE SERVICES ALREADY PROVIDED TO PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE TOKER WITH-- HAVE YOU TO REMEMBER IT'S NOT SIMPLY ALLOWING THEM TO TAKE THESE OTHER MEDICATIONS OR OTHER THINGS, BUT PROVIDING THINGS LIKE JOB COUNSELING AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON THIS.

LET'S TALK NEXT ABOUT THE OLYMPICS.

A FEW OF THE ATHLETES HAVE TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID • AND MANY FEAR A SUPER-SPREADER EVENT.

BUT THE ORGANIZERS SAY THE GAMES WILL GO ON.

LET ME NOTE THAT WE ARE RECORDING THIS SHOW ON THURSDAY MORNING, IN CASE THERE'S A CHANGE BY FRIDAY NIGHT.

NO SPECTATORS ARE BEING ALLOWED IN TO WATCH.

AND IN A POLL DONE EARLY THIS WEEK IN TOKYO, A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF OF THE JAPANESE SURVEYED SAID THEY DIDN'T WANT THE GAMES TO GO AHEAD.

RICK, SHOULD THEY?

>> NO, I THINK THIS IS A MISTAKE.

BRINGING THOUSANDS OF ATHLETES FROM AROUND THE WORLD, MANY OF THEM COMING FROM AREAS WITH VERY LOW VACCINATION RATES AND BRINGING THEM TO A COUNTRY THAT ITSELF HAS LOW VACCINATION RATES AND INCREASING CASE LOADS.

I THINK THIS IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER.

I THINK, AS YOU SAID, THE JAPANESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THE OLYMPICS RIGHT NOW AND I THINK THIS IS SHOWING REALLY THE POWER OF THE I.O.C.

TO PROTECT THEIR FINANCIAL INTERESTS, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, SEEKING AN AVENUE FOR THE ATHLETES TO SHOW THEIR EXPERTISE.

BUT I THINK THAT THIS WAS A MISTAKE.

>> I DON'T THINK THE I.O.C.

IS NECESSARILY TO BLAME HERE.

THEIR MISSION IS TO PROMOTE OLYMPIC SPORTS.

THEY DELAYED IT ONCE.

I SHARE YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THE HEALTH SITUATION.

I THINK THAT'S ON THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THE JAPANESE DO NOT WANT IT TO OCCUR HERE.

THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID IT'S OUT OF OUR HANDS, THE I.O.C.

SAID WE HAVE TO DO THIS.

I DON'T BUY THAT ARGUMENT.

I THINK THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT SHOULD CHALLENGE THE CONTRACT THAT THEY'RE A PARTY TO IN COURT AND I THINK THEY CAN MAKE A REASONABLE ARGUMENT THAT THERE IS AN UNPRECEDENTED PUBLIC HEALTH SITUATION HERE THAT NECESSITATES THEM VACATING THE CONTRACT.

AND EVEN IF THEY LOSE THE EFFORT, AT LEAST THE PROMISES IS CARRYING OUT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF BLAMING THE I.O.C.

I THINK GOVERNMENT LEADERS NEED TO LEAD.

I EMPATHIZE WITH THEM BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE DOING ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

>> DON'T YOU THINK WITH THE CITIES BIDDING NOW IS ON ITS WAY OUT OR SHOULD BE.

>> IT'S GONE.

THE I.O.C.

JUST AWARDED THE 2032-- THEY-- HERE IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THE I.O.C.

IS AMONGST THE MOST CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE HAVE.

IT MAKES FIFA, THE HEAD OF THE SOCCER FOUNDATION LOOK LIKE A WELL OILED TRANSPARENT ORGANIZATION.

SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF LONG RUN PROBLEMS WITH THE OLYMPICS.

I THINK THE I.O.C.

HAS CONNECTIONS WITH SOME VERY LARGE COMPANIES IN JAPAN AND SO, YOU KNOW, LUKE, I AGREE THAT THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING MORE TO DEAL WITH THE SITUATION.

BUT I THINK THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE CONTINUE AI GOES OF THE OLYMPICS IS I.O.C.

AND THEY ARE AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL ORGANIZATION.

>> BUT ISN'T THAT IN LINE WITH THEIR MISSION?

AND I DON'T ENJOY DEFENDING THE I.O.C.

I'M TOTALLY WITH YOU ON THE CORRUPTION PIECE.

BUT I ALSO LOOK AT THEIR LEADERSHIP.

THE EXECUTIVES MAKE $243,000.

YOU MENTIONED FIFA.

THEY DON'T PUBLICLY REPORT HOW MUCH THEIR EXECUTIVES MAKE BUT IT'S ESTIMATED TO BE ABOUT $2 MILLION.

SO TO ME, YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THIS IS A GROUP OF LEADERS AT THE I.O.C.

WHO ARE FULFILLING THEIR MISSION.

THEY'RE NOT IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH BUSINESS.

THEY SHOULDN'T BE COMPLETELY INCENTIVE TO IT, BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN A SUMMER AGO.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE ATHLETES?

THEY'VE WORKED FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

YOU HAVE CHILDREN INVOLVED IN SPORTS.

WHAT ABOUT THE ATHLETES?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY I THINK THAT THERE ARE THE HEALTH ISSUES OF THE ATHLETES, THE FACT THAT ATHLETES HAVE, IN MANY OF THE SPORTS, A VERY SHORT PERIOD IN WHICH TO SHOW THEIR EXPERTISE.

AND SO I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT THEM AS A SPORTS FAN I LOVE WATCHING THE OLYMPICS.

ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE OLYMPICS HAVE ACTUALLY OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULNESS.

I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THE OLYMPICS ARE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ONLY INSTANCES IN WHICH WE GET TOGETHER AS A WORLD, YOU KNOW, BOTH THE ATHLETES IN ONE AREA AND YOU KNOW, THOSE OF US AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE WATCHING ON TELEVISION, WHERE WE REALLY GET TO PARTICIPATE AND BE PART OF AN EVENT TOGETHER.

SO I THINK THE OLYMPICS ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

BUT I THINK THE LONG RUN SITUATION WITH RESPECT TO HEALTH AND WHAT IS GOING ON IN JAPAN IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SHORT RUN GOALS OF THE ATHLETES.

SO I THINK THAT THIS WAS THE WRONG TIME TO BE MOVING AHEAD WITH THE OLYMPICS.

I HOPE I AM PROVEN WRONG.

>> I HOPE YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG, TOO, BUT I'M ON YOUR SIDE ON THIS.

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE THE OLYMPICS HAVE A WINTER AND A SUMMER VENUE THAT WAS ESTABLISHED, ATHENS AND SOMEPLACE IN SWITZERLAND.

I THINK THIS BIDDING AND THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CORRUPTION THAT'S INVOLVED IN THAT ARE NOT GOOD.

AND MANY CITIES HAVE AGREED WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE 20 CITIES BID AND NOW IT'S DOWN TO TWO, I THINK, FOR THE 2024 OLYMPICS.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT WOULD KIND OF CALM THE WHOLE POTENTIAL CORRUPTION AND, YOU KNOW, LET THE OLYMPICS DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU LIKED THEM TO DO, WHICH IS ALLOW THE ATHLETES TO DO THEIR BEST AND HAVE THE ABILITY FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO WATCH THEM.

>> MANY COUNTRIES AND CITIES HAVE BEEN DEVASTATED BY THE AFTERMATH OF THE OLYMPICS.

THERE IS THE PROMISE OF ALL THIS MONEY AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN RIO.

>> BAND ONED STADIUMS.

-- ABANDONED STADIUMS.

>> LIKE PROFESSIONAL SPORTS IN THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE THESE PROMISES OF BIG ECONOMIC GAINS AND REALLY THEY DON'T EXIST.

MOST ECONOMISTS WILL TELL YOU THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THESE THINGS IS NEGLIGIBLE.

I AGREE, IF WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THE OLYMPICS, USING EXISTING FACILITIES, MAYBE LIMITING THE NUMBER OF COUNTRIES IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD FIRST STEP FORWARD.

>> KRISTI, RICK SAYS HE IS GOING TO WATCH.

I'M WONDERING IF PEOPLE ARE KIND OF TIRED OF SITTING AT HOME AND WATCHING TV AND WHAT THE RATINGS MIGHT BE.

ARE YOU GOING TO WATCH?

>> I DON'T HAVE TELEVISION.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO WATCH.

>> YOU WON'T BE STREAMING?

>> I CAN LOOK AT THINGS STREAMING, SURE.

>> AND RICK, YOU ARE A BIG FAN.

>> SOME OF THE SOCCER GAMES, UNFORTUNATELY, THE U.S. WOMEN LOST TO SWEDEN BADLY ALREADY.

SO, YES, I WILL WATCH, WHETHER ON TELEVISION OR STREAMING ON THE INTERNET.

>> WELL, AS WE TALK ABOUT COVID, MUCH OF THE NEWS THIS WEEK HAS BEEN ABOUT THE QUICK SPREAD OF THE DELTA VARIANT.

ALMOST ALL THE RECENT DEATHS FROM COVID ARE FROM THOSE NOT VACCINATED.

SO I'M TRYING SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT --- I'M GOING TO EACH OF THE PANELISTS FOR ONE CREATIVE, PERSUASIVE WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO TAKE THE SHOT.

LUKE, LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU GOT A WAY TO GET THEM?

>> I HOPE.

SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ACCESS AND INCENTIVES AND REQUIREMENTS AND I THINK WE'VE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB AS A COUNTRY WITH ACCESS.

THERE SHOULD BE A LITTLE MORE PAID LEAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET THE SHOT AND RECUPERATE IF YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS.

BUT MY SUGGESTION IS TO FOCUS ON THE INCENTIVES AND THE REQUIREMENTS AND I WOULD DO TWO THINGS.

FIRST IF I WAS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, I WOULD REQUIRE ALL FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, CONTRACTORS AND MEMBERS OF THE U.S. MILITARY TO BE VACCINATED.

THE GOVERNMENT IS THE BIGGEST EMPLOYER IN THE COUNTRY AND THAT WOULD SET A STANDARD THAT OTHER EMPLOYERS COULD FOLLOW.

I WOULD THEN WORK THROUGH CONGRESS IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION TO TRY TO CREATE A BILL THAT PROVIDES TAX BREAKS TO BUSINESSES WHO REQUIRE THEIR EMPLOYEES TO BE VACCINATED.

I THINK REPUBLICANS WOULD LIKE THE TAX CUT FOR BUSINESSES AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS WOULD LIKE THE PUBLIC HEALTH ELEMENT SO THAT'S MY SUGGESTION.

>> KRISTI, WHAT IS YOUR SUGGESTION?

>> WELL, I JUST WANT TO RESPOND TO LUKE.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS MIGHT IDEALLY LIKE THE TAX CUTS BUT THEY WOULD BE SO OUTRAGED THAT THE GOVERNMENT WAS REQUIRING VACCINES THAT IT WOULD NOT BE A BIPARTISAN WIN; THAT PARTICULAR PART OF YOUR PLAN.

I MEAN I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE ONE PLAN.

THERE WAS AN INTERESTING STORY IN THE POST STANDARD ABOUT A PERSON OR PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO GET THE LEAST VACCINATED PART OF CENTRAL NEW YORK VACCINATED.

THIS IS CORTLAND COUNTY.

AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE THEY HIGHLIGHTED WAS A GUY WHO WAS TALKING TO PEOPLE ONE TO ONE, THE CASE STUDY OR THE PEOPLE HE WAS TALKING TO RAN A SMALL STORE.

THEY HADN'T BEEN VACCINATED AND IT WAS ABOUT HOW HE HAD, YOU KNOW, NOT DOWNGRADED OR SAID BAD THINGS ABOUT THEIR POSITION BUT TALKED ABOUT HOW HE CAME TO WANT A VACCINATION.

MY POINT IS TALK TO PEOPLE WHO YOU KNOW OR HAVE A RELATIONSHIP OR CAN BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH IS ONE WAY TO DO IT.

BUT I'M WITH LUKE.

I THINK THAT SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, BUSINESSES, GOVERNMENTS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO MANDATE PEOPLE BEING VACCINATED AND SHOULD DO SO.

>> RICK, YOUR IDEA.

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING I THINK WOULD BE FOR THE FDA TO GIVE FULL APPROVAL TO THE VACCINES BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE MIXED MESSAGES RIGHT NOW WITH RESPECT TO THIS.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEING THIS AND ARE CONFUSED AND SOME ARE USING IT AS A WAY OF DRIVING A WEDGE.

SO THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

THE SECOND, I AGREE WITH LUKE ABOUT INCENTIVES AND REQUIREMENTS.

AND BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ARE THE INCENTIVES TO GOALS OTHER THAN VACCINATION.

IT'S INTERESTING THE STATE OF ALABAMA HAS ONE OF THE LOWEST VACCINATION RATES, 38% OF THE POPULATION, YET THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA FOOTBALL TEAM RECENTLY PASSED THE 85 AND IS NOW GOING TO THE 90% RATE.

NOW WHY THE BIG DIFFERENCE?

IT'S BECAUSE THE COACH OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM SEES THAT STUDENTS ATHLETES GETTING VACCINATED IS GIVING THEM A COMPETITIVE EDGE BECAUSE THE RULES WILL ALLOW COLLEGES TEAMS THAT HAVE MORE THAN 85% OF THEIR ATHLETES VACCINATED, THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO WEAR MASKS.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO CONTACT TRACING AND SO THE COACH HAS SEEN THIS AS A WAY OF ENSURING THAT HIS FOOF TEAM HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES, NOT THAT IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH, YOU KNOW, THE DIRECT HEALTH OR EFFICACY OF THE VACCINATIONS.

I WOULD LOOK AT HOW ABOUT A NATIONAL POWER BALL LOTTERY ONLY AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

SO TWICE A WEEK, THE GOVERNMENT GIVES EACH VACCINATED PERSON A $1 TICKET.

YOU FILL IN YOUR POWER BALL NUMBERS AND IF YOU HIT IT, YOU WIN.

MY HOPE WOULD BE THAT OVER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, THAT LOTTERY WOULD START RISING IN VALUE.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST IS GET TO A MAGIC NUMBER OF $200 MILLION IN POWER BALL AND ALL OF A SUDDEN ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE START PLAYING THE LOTTERY THAT NORMALLY WOULDN'T.

SO PERHAPS A LARGE LOTTERY, GETTING TO A HUGE AM, AMOUNT, PEOPLE WOULD START GETTING VACCINATED JUST SO THEY MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE OF WINNING A COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.

>> A LOTTERY.

LET ME THROW ANOTHER IDEA IN THE POT FROM KATE COHEN WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST.

SHE SAID TAKE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DIE WHO ARE VACCINATED AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DIE WHO ARE NOT VACCINATED AND PUT THOSE TWO FIGURES RUN AGO LONG THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN OF EVERY TV NEWS BROADCAST ON EVERY NEWSPAPER AND ON EVERY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE.

LUKE, WOULD THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HURT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT WOULD HELP.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHY PEOPLE DON'T GET VACCINATED, I DON'T THINK IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT COULD HELP THEM.

I THINK THEY HAVE OTHER CONCERNS ABOUT THE VACCINE AND THE AUTHORIZATION PROCESS LIKE RICK MENTIONED OR MAYBE THEY'VE HAD BAD EXPERIENCE IS IN THEIR FAMILY AS A MEDICAL SORT.

MAYBE THEY DISTRUST THE GOVERNMENT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

TO ME IT'S THOSE DIFFERENT FACTORS AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A CLOSE FRIEND OF MINE.

WHO IS NOT VACCINATED.

HE STRAIGHT OUT SAID I'M NOT AN IDIOT.

I UNDERSTAND THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS AND HERE IS WHY I'M NOT DOING IT AND IT WAS A VERY SPECIFIC SITUATION THAT THIS PERSON DEALT WITH.

I THINK THAT'S MORE THE ISSUE TO OVERCOME.

MORE INFORMATION AND MORE EDUCATION IS GOOD BUT I DON >> ONE AT A TIME IS HOW YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

EDUCATION IS GOOD BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL BE PERSUADED BY THAT ALONE.

>> ONE AT A TIME IS HOW YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

>> I AGREE THAT MORE INFORMATION ISN'T GOING TO BE THE LINK HERE.

I THINK MISINFORMATION, I THINK IS A BIGGER ROLE THAN PERHAPS YOU ARE SUGGESTING AND THAT'S WHY EVEN TONGUE IN CHEEK, THE LOTTERY ISSUE TRYING TO ALIGN THE DECISION TO GET A VACCINE TO SOME GOAL OTHER THAN HEALTH AND VACCINATION SEEMS TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.

FOOTBALL PLAYERS WANTING TO WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GETTING THE VACCINE, NOT BECAUSE THEY... >> I THINK THAT'S A LIMITED METHOD.

IT WILL WORK IN THE SITUATIONS LIKE THAT WHERE IT'S VERY CLOSELY CONNECTED WITH SOMETHING THEY WANT.

>> SPEAKING OF LIMITED, IT IS TIME TO LIMIT OUR CONVERSATION AND GO TO THE GRADEBOOK.

KRISTI FOR YOUR F PLEASE.

>> MY F GOES TO REPRESENTATIVE CLAUDIA TENNEY LEADING A GROUP OF 168 REPUBLICAN HOUSE MEMBERS FILING A LEGAL BRIEF TO CHALLENGE NEW YORK STATE LAWS ON LIMITING WHO CAN CARRY A GUN OUTSIDE OF THEIR HOME.

I WOULD NOTE THAT NEW YORK'S GUN MORTALITY RATE IS ABOUT ONE FOURTH OF THE STATE'S WITH MUCH MORE LENIENT LAWS IN THE SOUTH.

SO CLAUDIA, TELL ME WHY IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO WEAKEN OUR LAWS?

>> RICK?

>> MY F GOES TO NANCY PELOSI FOR REJECTING JIM BANKS AND JIM JORDAN AS TWO OF THE FIVE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE JANUARY 6 RIOTS AT THE CAPITOL.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THEY WERE NAMED TO MAKE THE JOB OF THE COMMITTEE AS DIFFICULT AND DIVISIVE AS POSSIBLE.

BUT THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ANTICIPATED AND WHAT IS NOW HAPPENING IS THE OTHER THREE REPUBLICANS HAVE PULLED OFF THE COMMITTEE SO IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT A BIPARTISAN COMMITTEE IS GOING TO ACTUALLY COME TO BE.

ISN'T THAT JUST WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WANTED?

>> LUKE?

>> MY F GOES TO THE CONTINUED IMPACT OF THE DEVASTATING WESTERN WILDFIRES THAT REACHED CENTRAL NEW YORK THIS WEEK.

THE JET STREAM TRANSPORTED AIR POLLUTION 3,000 MILES PROMPTING LOCAL HEALTH ADVISORIES, ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO STAY INSIDE.

>> AND LET'S TALK ABOUT As.

KRISTI.

>> AN A TO THE FACT THAT THE WHEELS FINALLY SEEM TO BE MOVING ON THE I-81 TRAIN.

ON THE I-81 TRAIN.

NEW YORK STATE HAS NOW ISSUED DETAILED PLANS, INCLUDING CHANGES DESIGNED TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THE CONCERNS OR PROBLEMS RAISED BY OPPONENTS TO THE REROUTING OF I-81.

IT DOES SEEM LIKE JOBS CREATED BY THE PROJECT WILL GO TO LOCAL PEOPLE.

>> RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO JUDGE DAMON LEICHTY, WHO RULED THAT INDIANA UNIVERSITY CAN REQUIRE ALL STUDENTS TO PROVIDE PROOF OF VACCINATIONS BEFORE COMING TO CAMPUS IN THE FALL.

THIS PUTS A DENT IN THE ATTEMPT TO BLOCK INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING FROM MANDATING COVID-19 VACCINES.

THIS MAY GO A LOT FURTHER TOWARDS INCREASING VACCINATION RATES THAN SAY MY LOTTERY.

>> AND LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO A $600,000 GRANT AWARDED TO UTICA THIS WEEK.

THE GRANT IS PART OF NEW YORK STATE'S EMERGENCY RESPONSE TO GUN VIOLENCE AND WILL PROVIDE JOB TRAINING AND PLACEMENT TO AT-RISK YOUNG ADULTS.

>> AND ONE THING I WANTED TO ADD SINCE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OPIOID CRISIS, THAT THERE IS THIS WEEK A SETTLEMENT AMONG SOME OF THE DRUG DISTRIBUTORS AND COMPANIES, $26 BILLION.

AND SO THAT WILL OFFER SOME MONEY FOR MORE OF THESE KIND OF TREATMENT AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.

WELL, WITH THAT, WE HAVE TO CLOSE THE SHOW.

WE WONDER IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

THE ADDRESSES ARE ON THE SCREEN AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY NIGHT, IT REPEATS SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30.

OR YOU CAN FIND THE SHOW ONLINE ANYWHERE AT WCNY.ORG.

GOOD NIGHT.