[quiet street ambience] Man 1: I am a risk taker.

That excites me about my personality, is the fact that I am a risk taker.

You know, you can't live life and find out stuff if you sit in the house all day and go to work, clock in, come home, go to sleep, start all over again the next day.

It's instinctive, some kind of a way.

And that's why, you know, learning more about my ancestors is important because it's in there.

But where's it coming from?

♪♪ Lise: Durrell Daniels is an entrepreneurial businessman living in Atlanta, Georgia.

A self-described seeker, he steps out on faith and makes things happen.

However, Durrell has investigated very little about his mother's side of the family line.

Growing up, Durrell lived far away from relatives and rarely heard about his family history.

But his interest was piqued when he saw an old photograph of his great-grandfather, Marcellous Gregory, a farmer who lived in Mississippi.

As an African-American with heritage in the Southern United States, Durrell assumed that his great-grandfather would look like a poor, tattered farm hand.

However, what Durrell saw was a sharp-looking man in a suit who seemed like he had big plans for his life.

Durrell: You know, I saw a picture of him and, um...

I thought he was an interesting guy, just from the photograph.

I don't know, I could just imagine the type of lifestyle that he had, just simply by the clothes that he had on.

At that time, for him to be dressed well, I don't know, it said a lot about him 'cause he wasn't in a time where African-Americans could dress well.

If you were, people kinda wondered, you know, what do you do?

And I don't know, I guess that I had the same question when I saw the picture.

I'm hoping to maybe have a lotta similarities in my great-grandfather.

Maybe he is business savvy or his personality or his way with people.

You know, you have the stories where if you could pick five people living or dead to have lunch with, who would they be?

You know, he'd definitely be one of those individuals.

Lise: Sometimes, knowing more about our family history can not only help us connect to our family from past generations, it can also help us understand the kinds of legacies we can leave for generations to come.

From the studios of BYU Television in Provo, Utah, this is The Generations Project.

♪♪ - Hi, everybody.

I'm Lise Sims, and each week on our program, we bring you the story of someone who, for one reason or another, wants to connect with their ancestors or an entire generation of their family tree, and we help them do just that.

We're an ongoing project, helping people connect across generations, and today, that person is Durrell Daniels.

Hi, Durrell.

- Hello.

- This is a fascinating story because you have a real compulsion to leave a legacy.

What is a legacy to you?

- It's, um, it's become, or what it is to me, what a legacy is to me is when you have, if I said the name Kennedy or Rockefeller-- Lise: Whoa.

- --or, you know, any of those names, you-- their family has a profound effect not only on what we know about 'em, but what their family knows about 'em, and I, I desire to leave that type of an impression on my family and on this planet, you know, I feel while I'm here, so that's what a legacy is for me.

Lise: That's powerful stuff.

- It is powerful.

- Were you always that way?

Was-- did someone teach you that?

Durrell; No one taught me that.

It-it's a, uh, it's a feeling that I've probably had most of my life, but I-- [clears throat] over the-- 'scuse me, over the last few years, I've just started to bring it out of myself, and, uh, this last-- this project here, The Generations Project, has helped me define what that legacy is because I have classic examples like my great-grandfather of what leaving a legacy is all about, because that's exactly what they've done.

- Exactly, and that gets so fascinating.

You had, um, a nomadic childhood.

You were a military kid.

Durrell: Right, yes.

- Traveled a lot, so really didn't have that extended sense of family as you traveled across the country.

- No, no, didn't have that strong sense of family.

I always was kinda curious about family, uh, I was curious about my grandmother.

She was this mysterious figure to me.

Uh, she was like a, uh, like Superwoman, I guess you would call her, but... - Why was she like Superwoman?

- Well, because she just, she was an amazing person.

Even as a child, not knowing much about her, as, as I got older, the more curious-- I was like, I gotta know who she is, you know, so.

Lise: And this is your mom's mother.

- Yes.

Lise: And you got to spend some time with her before she passed away.

- I did, yes.

- And what did she teach you?

Durrell: Well, she taught me a lot about how to love Durrell and how to love, period.

She taught me the true definition of what love is, and, uh, that's been a fascinating part of my life.

Uh, that's been an incredible part of my life because it's be-- it's become part of who I am now, so.

- Did she speak of her own father to you, Marcellous?

- We didn't talk about family much in my family.

That's just... Lise: So, we're actually gonna take this story of yours and follow your great-grandfather, who was the grandmother you know, her father, um, and why him is what I wanna get to.

You saw a picture-- - Right.

- --of a great-grandfather that you knew was a farmer, and what did you see in that picture?

Durrell: I saw a guy with a suit on in the early 1900s, and I was curious, you know, and, uh, that was it.

I mean, the picture's old, the-- you know, but he was-- he looked really good, and I was, you know, I was like, man, who is this guy?

Lise: It's the self-described seeker in you, right?

Durrell: That's what it is.

Lise: I love that.

Well, let's start this story.

We, um, we send you to Mississippi-- - Right.

- --because a family reunion is coming up, a family reunion on the Gregory side, your mother's side, that hasn't happened in 30 years, so you've never been to one of these.

Durrell: Right, never.

- And on the way, you're gonna gather some information starting with your mom-- Durrell: Right.

- --see what she has to tell you, shall we?

Durrell: Okay, yeah, let's do it.

♪♪ Lise: Though she was only a child when Durrell's great- grandfather Marcellous died, Durrell is first meeting with his mother, Velma in hopes that she'll have some initial clues about who Marcellous was and what his life was like.

♪♪ Velma: This is Marcellous that you've been so curious about, and this is his brother, uh, Janice.

Durrell: Wow, can I see this?

Velma: Sure.

I know you've been really curious about him, just wanted to know whether or not you guys had any of the same features or anything like that.

Durrell: What impressed me about it is the fact that he has a suit on and is so old.

I mean, it's just...

I dunno, he looks like an interesting guy.

Velma: He was pretty interesting.

Like I say, anyone in town would know, know, know who Papa was, you know.

He was very, uh, self-independent man, and he had his own land.

He loved the freedom to work and have his own.

Both: [chuckle] - I was just saying, you know, whatever you do, have your own, so-- Durrell: Yeah, I remember you sayin' that.

- He was, he was a man that just wanted it all and wanted to say that, you know, he did it.

So, he was a very hard worker.

He had his own character, he had his own money, he had, you know, he just did what he needed to do.

- So, very independent and... - Of course.

- Yeah.

♪♪ Lise: As a self-made man, Marcellous Gregory was a hard-working rancher and farmer.

He raised pigs, cows, and horses.

He planted apple, fig, and mulberry trees, and he grew everything from corn, peas, and butter beans to the main cash crop at the time, cotton.

♪♪ Durrell still has lots of questions about his great-grandfather, or Papa Marcellous.

So, his mother, Velma, has pointed him to her cousin, Mary Smith, who grew up around Papa Marcellous, and can possibly tell Durrell more about his life and personality.

♪♪ Mary: We called him color struck.

- Color struck, really?

- Uh-huh.

- Mmm.

- H-he'd, um, my mom's children, the darker ones, he didn't have too much to do with the darker ones.

- Really?

- But he'd, uh, take up time with the light skin colored ones.

- Okay.

- So, I was one of the lucky ones, I was light.

- Yeah, I see.

[laughs] - I could get anything.

Both: [laugh] Mary: I could get anything out of him and I'd tell him to bring me this or bring me that.

Durrell: Right, right, right.

Mary: He would do it.

Well, I don't know if anybody told you, but I'm gon' say ya... he was a bootlegger.

- Oh, really?

- Oh, yeah.

- [laughs] Really?

- He made the best whiskey in Columbus, Mississippi.

- No kiddin'?

- Oh, yes.

And he sure knew how to sell it.

- Oh, did he?

- Because cars would be lined up-- - [laughs] - --close to Christmas from the highway to his house.

- Really?

Okay.

- And, uh... that's the way he made part o' his money.

♪♪ Lise: Mary Smith also remembers fondly playing in the many acres of farmland that Marcellous owned and worked by himself.

In fact, he was able to purchase several acres of land in Columbus, Mississippi, but Durrell doesn't know how much land or how much Marcellous paid for it.

Knowing this would help Durrell get a better understanding of his great-grandfather's economic status in 1920s Mississippi.

♪♪ To find out exactly how much land Marcellous was able to purchase and how much he paid, Durrell is meeting with Lisa Niece at the Columbus County courthouse.

- Durrell, let's go back here, and I believe it was in book 190.

Here we go.

- Okay.

- It's a little heavy.

It was on page 404.

- 404.

- Okay, here we go.

Ike Smith, trustee to Marcellous Gregory.

- Okay.

- Trustees deed-- - Right.

Lise N.: --and as you read, I did offer for sale at the public auction to the highest bidder for cash to property herein described whereupon Marcellous Gregory bid therefore the sum of $1,075 cash, each for being the highest and best and last bid for cash.

Durrell: No kiddin'.

Lisa N.: That is unreal.

Durrell: It was an auction?

Lisa N.: It was an auction.

Trustees, Ike Smith was a trustee, and it looks like someone had lost his property, and George T. Fairley and wife, uh-huh, and he came along and was interested in it and your grandfather purchased it.

- Paid cash for it.

- Isn't that unreal?

- Wow, that is unreal.

♪♪ Lise: Now Durrell knows that Marcellous purchased 80 acres of land at an auction for a relatively large amount of cash.

This was significant considering it was done less than a generation away from a time when African-Americans would have worked the same land as slaves, but Durrell has also heard that Marcellous inherited land from his father Seldon Gregory, so Durrell has decided to search for records under his great-great- grandfather Seldon's name on the chance that he'll find some clues about his great great-grandfather.

♪♪ - The deed from W-- P.W.

Mayor to Seldon Gregory.

- Okay.

- Your great-great- grandfather, right?

- Right.

Lise N.: Where he purchased on credit 250 acres.

And then I noticed in deed book 119, later on in years, there are two deeds from William Gregory and wife to Seldon Gregory, two deeds, same day, lost the property and came back and purchased it back again.

- You know, I was just thinking about what you just said.

They purchased 250 acres on credit.

- Right, I wonder.

- Yeah, that's a really solid relationship with somebody 'cause I'm not gonna just-- - Oh no.

- --give you 250 acres hoping that you'll pay me back, I mean, unless you know that the land is producing-- - Mm-hm.

- --you know, that type of income, but that's amazing.

250 acres.

- I know, that's a lotta land.

- But to lose it and then come back four years later-- - And get it and pay cash for it.

- --and pay cash for it.

Lise N.: Things were getting better.

Durrell: Right, right, right.

♪♪ Lise: So, in 1918, Durrell's great-great-grandfather Seldon Gregory purchased 250 acres of land on credit.

However, at this time, African-American land owners in Mississippi had a difficult time holding on to their property.

Southern Blacks experienced widespread discrimination, and a series of laws were passed with aims to maintain social inequality.

Most African-Americans who were able to acquire land usually lost it within the span of just a few years.

It was during this time of instability that Seldon lost his land, vowed to get it back, and then, within four years, earned enough to purchase the land again, this time with cash.

Durrell: I didn't know anything about my great-grandfather, and then I find out about his father.

To, uh, lose the land, 250 acres, and then, to basically get out, roll your sleeves up, and say, you know what, Imma get this land back, it's a, a sign of courageousness which, um, I wanted to find out about my ancestors anyway, is, uh, what was their attitude or their philosophy of life, and that right there, just even in that, tells me that they were very courageous, very go-getter, uh, 'cause you don't just lose 250 acres and then pay off your debt and buy the land cash.

To me, that's, uh, that's very impressive.

That thought will probably stick in my head for the rest of my life 'cause I think that, um, that says a lot about their character.

I feel enlightened today.

Yeah, I feel great.

It feels good.

♪♪ Lise: Durrell now knows some details about his ancestors' lives, but how do the events of their lives fit into the larger social history of the time?

To find out, Durrell is meeting Professor Ted Owenby, the director of the study of Southern culture at Mississippi University.

Durrell wants to know more about the history of African-Americans owning land in Mississippi after the Civil War brought an end to slavery.

♪♪ Durrell: My family went from being slaved or being enslaved to owning a lot of land, like, several hundred acres.

Um, how's, how's that possible?

- It was the goal of an awful lotta people as they left slavery, uh, to, uh, to become landowners.

One thing's a lotta people found surprising about Mississippi, um, is that it was a, a hopeful place.

From 1870s to 1880s, there's, uh, this time of political possibility.

Mississippi had the largest African-American majority in the South, and so, at a time when it wasn't yet clear that Blacks were gonna lose the vote, there was a lotta hope, uh, that the political system would come in and not just-- and create opportunities for schools and for land ownership opportunities and, uh, the government itself.

♪♪ Lise: During the Reconstruction period, Northern troops occupied the South and helped to successfully carry out elections where there was, for a time, a Black majority in the state legislature.

However, in 1875, the Mississippi Plan was devised to overthrow the North, suppress the Black vote, and disrupt elections in order to regain political control.

By 1877, Northern troops had vacated the Southern states, leaving Mississippi African-Americans once again in a climate of hatred and discrimination.

♪♪ Prof. Owenby: 1870s and 1880s, um, there's some kind of political compromising.

Uh, there are political parties that want both the white and the African-American vote.

Late 1880s and early 1890s, the Democratic party in Mississippi, uh, has what some people call the second Mississippi Plan, and, and, and it's, it's Southwide, but it starts, a lot of it starts in Mississippi.

That is, methods of, uh, making it really difficult for African-Americans to vote.

Lise: Mississippi was the first state to enforce Jim Crow enfranchisement laws that legislated against newly-freed Black citizens through the use of literacy and comprehension tests, residency and record-keeping requirements and poll taxes, Southern legislators were able to drastically decrease African-American voting rights in the South, making it increasingly difficult for them to acquire or keep land.

These laws were the beginning of legislated racism in the post-war South that would allow institutionalized discrimination to continue for decades to come.

And it was in this harsh social and political climate that Seldon, and later, Marcellous, were somehow able to purchase their land in Columbus against all odds.

- Um, I found a statistic.

- M'kay.

- Um, that in 1900, um, of the African-Americans in Lowndes County, there were about 2,800 families farming, and of those, about 195 owned land, so that's less than 10%.

7%, something like that.

Uh, so, it's, it's not out of the question for African-Americans to own land.

By comparison, the same statistics showed that of white people who farmed in Lowndes County, 500 out of 700 owned land, so, that's the difference between 7% and about 75%, or 73%.

So, it's not unusual for African-Americans to sometimes own land.

It is more unusual, from what I understand about your family, a lot more unusual for people to own land for several generations at a time.

♪♪ Lise: Now Durrell knows that his family was very unique in that they were not only a part of the 7% of African-American farmers who owned their own land, but Durrell's family was also the rare exception who were stable enough to keep their land over several generations, even until today.

♪♪ Durrell is finally visiting the land where his ancestors worked and lived.

He's meeting with one of Marcellous's grandsons, Floyd Gregory, who was raised by Marcellous and helped to work the land by his side.

Floyd: Yeah, right here.

♪♪ Right here's the front step leading into the-- leading up on the front porch into the living room.

Durrell: Yeah, 'cause I, I can see the chimney back there.

Floyd: Right.

Durrell: You know, based on what you remember, what was a typical day for Papa Marcellous like?

Floyd: The sun did not catch him in the bed.

- [chuckles] - He would get up, first of all, he would get up and go out to the barn.

Durrell: Okay.

Floyd: He would feed the mules, the cattles, he would come back in, Grandma would get breakfast ready-- Durrell: Mm-hm.

[chuckles] Floyd: By the time he got through eating and everything, his stock would be through eatin'.

Durrell: Yeah.

Floyd: And he'd go and get up his mules to the plow.

He was a known boot-legger.

- Okay.

- He made moonshine.

- I found that out, yeah.

- S'pposed to have been one of the best in this part of the country.

- Yeah, that's what I been told, man.

- Yeah.

Durrell: [laughs] - Uh-- Durrel: That's what I was told.

Floyd: So, he would always cut what they call ash wood.

Durrel: Ash wood?

Floyd: Ash wood, he'd cut ash trees and that's what he made his liquor with, uh, when he cooked his liquor, he'd burn ash wood.

- Really?

- And the reason was, he said ash wood did not make a lotta smoke.

So, if he's in the woods making moonshine, once the fire started burning, there was little or no smoke.

- Okay.

Wow.

- I thought that was crafty.

- Yes, that is crafty.

Both: [laugh] Floyd: He would always say, it's a poor rat don't have but one hole to run to when the cats come, they get him every time.

- Yeah, you right, you right.

- So, he believed in having resources coming from different directions.

- Yeah.

- That was his motto.

- Okay.

If a poor rat had only one hole... - He said, it is a poor rat-- - It is a poor rat.

- --that does not have but one hole to run to when the cats come.

- Mm-hm.

And catch him every time.

- They catch him every time.

But if he got several holes to run to... - Yeah, yeah.

- He got a chance.

- Yeah.

- That was his motto.

- Okay, I like that, man.

Floyd: Yeah, that was his motto.

He just believed in having his own.

Durrell: Right.

Yeah, my mom told me that.

- That's the type of guy he was.

He believed in having his own.

That's one thing he preached to me and my brother from the time we was in grade school.

Whatever you do, have your own.

Durrell: Yeah.

Floyd: Yep, that was one of his things.

Lise: Marcellous was not only a farmer and rancher, but he also had a Renaissance man amount of talent.

He was a poly-farmer who made wood products, was a boot-legger, and even tailored his own suits to look his best.

His constant hustling, business savvy, and people smarts allowed him to succeed in his many business ventures and save enough money to purchase and keep his own land, leaving an inheritance of property for many generations to come.

♪♪ Floyd was also working on the farm the day Papa Marcellous had the accident that would eventually take his life.

Floyd: When he passed, he was actually cutting firewood, I was with him.

From where we're sittin', where we're sittin', I would say about to my right, I would say about 300 yard-- - Mm-hm.

- --he was cutting a tree.

If I remember correctly, it was what you call a white oak tree that had one, one stump, but once the tree grew, it had two, like, divided into two trees.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So, he was running the power saw.

- Mm-hm.

- And when he cut the tree, when it hit the ground, it kicked back.

- Oh, I see.

- And when it kicked back, it hit him right across the stomach and it pinned him.

Of course, I was just a teenager, I couldn't lift.

- Right.

- And, uh, Robert Eurer ran back to this house-- - Yeah.

- --and told our grandmother.

And by that time, Roosevelt, you know, my brother, Roosevelt?

He rode up, and we all lifted enough the tree off of him for us to pull him out from under the tree.

- Mm-hm.

- If I'm correct... it happened on Thursday evening, and he died that Sunday.

I think about 1 o'clock, I believe, 12 or 1 o'clock.

So, that's-- that was his... that was-- that's how I seen his life end, you know?

But... he was a man among men.

Durrell: Okay, yeah.

Floyd: For that day and time, he was a man among men.

♪♪ - Hearing about how your great-grandfather passed away, what was that like for you?

- Um, it was interesting because to be at the location where he passed, and he-- you know, he-- it was such a tragic death.

You know, it wasn't like, oh, he got shot, you know, or a snake bit him.

Lise: Or had a heart attack or... - Right, exactly, heart attack.

It was very tragic.

So, hearing about it, it was shocking to me because it was like, uh, you hear about these courageous men, um, you go back in time, you know, very courageous men had, like, these deaths where, you know, they got trampled by bulls or something like that, and it's almost like that's how he passed.

It was like, uh... you know, it was, i-it was created by himself, um, but it was just, it was very tragic.

And hearing about that was... man, it, it touched me.

Yeah.

It touched me.

Lise: I know, um, being there was significant for you.

Durrell: That was, that was the-- probably the most significant part is the fact that I was at the location place where he passed.

Lise: And you could see the chimney and the staircase were still there.

Had you met Floyd before?

- Never.

- Oh, that's interesting.

- Yeah.

- He had a lot to tell you.

- Right, we kinda look alike too, don't we?

- I know!

And I really liked him, I really like the whole sound.

This-- the little phrases he gives you that-- Durrell: Right.

- Well, first of all, he says... a man among men.

Durrell: Right.

- It makes me cry.

Durrell: Right.

- What do you feel when you hear he was a man among men?

- I feel, um, I feel a great sense of pride, and it's just multiplied since, you know, since being there.

But I feel, I feel proud that I came from a generation of guys that was, uh, very progressive, very courageous, and I keep saying courageous because that's what they were.

Lise: Absolutely.

- You know, when you hear more stories about... when you get in depth as far as, like, his boot-legging career and, uh, who actually bought, you know, stuff from him, yeah, you know.

Lise: Who bought stuff from him?

Durrell: Well, uh, if, if I must say... Lise: Yes, you must!

- No, there was actually a table, and Floyd shared this story, there was a table in the back, but it was only for, like, the mayor, the chief of police, you know, and all of these, you know, dignitaries, and that table was specifically for them, so... - Wow, it makes it sound like he really was the best in the business.

- He knew what he was doing, yes.

Lise: I mean, these landowners-- - Right.

- Your ancestors as landowners in this time in American history, were you stunned?

Durrell: I was shocked, yeah.

I was, uh, in fact, speechless would probably be the best word to describe my reaction to when I found out about the acreage and the land.

Lise: Well, I love what you say about who was this man that someone gave him this first 250 acres on credit.

Durrell: Right, who would do that?

- It says so much about him.

Durrell: Exactly.

Who would just loan somebody 250 acres?

- An African-American man.

- Exactly.

- In Mississippi.

- In Mississippi.

- At this time.

Durrell: At this time, early 1800s.

Come on, I mean, you know, it's...

I was speechless.

There was nothing I couldn't say to describe that feeling at that moment when I found that out.

It was, uh, it was amazing.

- And then to hear that he lost it, which was actually typical.

Durrell: Right, yeah, it was typical.

- But vowed to get it back, and within four years-- Durrell: Right.

- --paid cash.

Durrell: Right.

Paid the land off, like, paid his debt and purchased the land, and then left the land for his family.

That's, uh-- - And the family's kept it, I mean-- - Right.

- To me, we-- here are these percentages, which I can't-- I-- I was astounded, and they're not my story, that only 7% of African-Americans at this time even owned land.

- Right.

- Right?

- Today.

- Today?

- Right.

- Today, and 1%-- no, 1% is all that still has hung on to that land.

That's almost nothing.

It's miraculous.

Durrell: Right.

- And, of course, his motto was what it was all about.

Durrell: Right.

- Have your own.

- Gotta have your own.

If you gon' have anything, make sure it's yours.

Lise: And I love that every single relative, from Cousin Anne to Floyd, everybody said-- your mother even said this is what, and she didn't even really know him.

Durrell: Right, exactly.

- You're starting to see connections between your entrepreneurial self and these great-grandfathers?

- I do, I have...

I have role models, yeah.

And they're right within my family tree.

So, I don't have to branch out, uh, you know, find different actors or entertainers or, you know, people in the, in the, uh, camera's eye to look for a mentor.

I have one within my own family.

And it's, it's good now because you-- I'm at a transitional point in life where it's good because this gives you the, the, uh, ammunition to keep going.

Lise: Absolutely, which is what you're all about.

- Right.

- Well, this-- I love this phrase, um, about the rat and the mo-- two holes, tell me-- Durrell: Oh, man, yeah, I mess it up every time I say it but-- - That's all right.

- It's-- Lise: It's a poor rat.

- It's a poor rat-- Lise: That has only one hole.

- --that has only one hole-- no, it's a poor rat for when the cats come has one hole to run to.

- Yeah, that's, that's great.

- Yeah, it is amazing 'cause they'll catch him every time.

- Well, and this is you having your hand in all things-- Durrell: Right.

- --and being this kind of a Renaissance man.

Durrell: Right.

- I mean, we're finding out that he wasn't only a farmer, he wasn't only a rancher, he, he made wood products, he sewed his own suits.

- Exactly, right.

Lise: And he boot-legged and, you know, a lot of us have this boot-legging in our history, and there's a lot of different reasons for that, but what I love about your story particularly, Durrell, is that I really see this man doing whatever it took-- Durrell: Right, right.

- --to get better, to make a better life for the next generations.

That's a legacy, right?

- That is a legacy.

In fact, I-- what impressed me about that whole experience is that, you know, he vowed never to go back to a, a certain state, like, if you come out of slavery and you vow never to be enslaved again, that's, that's a crusade, you know.

People will help you along the way.

Lise: Well said.

- And then, um, in that crusade, what you end up leaving is a legacy.

And that's exactly what he created when-- because it was his determination, it was his desire never to go down that path again.

Lise: And fortitude.

You know, when you say courage, I totally get the repetition of that word, but also fortitude.

The strength of these men, the craftiness of these men.

And I see it in you, and I love you seeing it in you now.

- Right.

- Um... always have your own.

Had you heard that before?

Durrell: My mom, she said it.

She said it, but she said it, uh... well, my grandmother may have said it, because that was her whole attitude.

Lise: Mm-hm.

- Um, which... she was a boot-legger somewhat-- Lise: Oh, is that right?

- Yeah, but she didn't really, like, make the liquor or anything like that, but she, she would buy it and on Sunday, she would sell it.

- Part of our history.

- Right, exactly, but, um, tha-- Lise: Not to interrupt you, but I want to talk about this history just a little bit more because we're gonna get back to the story-- - Sure.

- --about this land ownership.

Did you know-- I know you consider yourself a Chicago boy-- Durrell: Right.

- --even though you were kind of a military-- Durrell: Kind of moved around.

Lise: Yeah.

And now, you're getting in touch with these Mississippi roots.

Did you know some of this history of Mississippi that there had been a Black majority in the legislature in those years?

- I had no idea, yeah.

And if you study it and look at the pictures, there's actually a, a-- there's a Black female on there and that's, you know-- - Amazing!

- Right.

- So, I can't say enough about how special and important it is that these two-- within one generation-- Durrell: Right.

- --your family went from being slaves-- Durrell: Right.

- --to owning land paid for in cash.

- Right.

- Durrell.

- Yeah?

- I mean, I'm proud for you!

- Right, it's empowering, I mean-- Lise: It's empowering for all of us, you know?

- It's a excene-- it's an excellent example where we hear the saying, um, as a man thinketh, you know, you hear this, but when you really capitalize on that thought, I mean, the sky's the limit.

Lise: That's right.

- And that's a perfect example.

- Yes, it is.

Well, now, you have this little taste of history of your great-grandfather Marcellous and his father, Seldon.

Where do you go to find out more?

Shall we?

Durrell: Yeah, let's do it, - Okay.

- Please.

♪♪ Lise: Seldon Gregory was born in 1865.

This was the same year the Emancipation Proclamation was fully put into effect, which eventually freed almost all Southern slaves.

However, Seldon Gregory likely lived his first year of life as a slave.

Finding any family history records for African-Americans before the end of slavery proves difficult as records were typically not kept that documented slave names and families.

However, Durrell has made contact with the Columbus City library where archivist Mona Vance has found the 1870 federal census record for Seldon Gregory, indicating that he actually lived in Pickensville, Alabama, shortly after the end of the Civil War.

Mona: So, we're looking for Seldon Gregory-- Durrell: Okay.

Mona: --and once we find the 1870 census index, you can take Seldon's name and find him on the census on microfilm, so, not only can you find Seldon, your great-great-grandfather, but you can also find his parents and then possibly other relatives living in the same neighborhood.

- Right, right.

Mona: So, Thomas Gregory is his father, and then... Margaret Gregory is his mother, and then, you can actually li-- you know, see all the brothers and sisters that he had.

Twelve children total.

- Twelve children, yeah.

- And she's 28.

- Wow.

Both: [chuckle] Lise: Now that Durrell has found the names, genders, and ages of Seldon's parents and family members, he hopes to push back further and see if he can find any information on his great-great-great- grandparents who would have been slaves for the first decades of their lives.

- Now that we've found Thomas Gregory on the 1870 census-- - Okay.

- --you can actually have that correlate with other records.

So, we've got Thomas Gregory at 38 and Margaret Gregory at 28, so if you wanna find-- go further back, you can also go to other records, like slave registers.

- Ah, okay.

Mona: Typically, former slaves-- - Mm-hm.

- --would take the name, the last name, of their previous owners.

Durrell: Right, right, right.

- So, if you can find a Gregory, a white family Gregory living in Pickens County-- Durrell: Mm-hm.

- --in 1860 or any time, you know, prior to 1865, then there's a very high probability that they actually were property of the white Gregory family.

Um, an example right here is, um... from the 1860 slave register in Pickens County, Alabama-- - Okay.

- --and you can see that this Gregory right here, J.W.

Gregory-- Durrell: Mm-hm.

Mona: --and what it does is it actually takes each, um, slave owner and then just lists briefly, not by name-- Durrell: Right.

Mona: --but lists by number how many slaves he had, the age of the slave, the gender of the slave, and, obviously, the race.

Durrell: Right, right.

Lise: Mona's comparison of the 1870 census with the 1860 slave registry for the J.W.

Gregory family has shown matches with genders, ages, last name, and location of Durrell's great-great- great-grandparents.

This means that Durrell is fortunate enough to be able to trace his African-American ancestors back to a time where most people's family lines would disappear.

- Fortunate that there was enough bookkeeping done and enough records kept to where I got some pretty hard specific information about my family.

Ah, you know, I...

I could get emotional there, uh, in terms of just describing going from being a slave to owning land in a single generation.

Yeah, within Seldon's life time, he not only raised a family, but he, he left a legacy because he left some land for Marcellous.

♪♪ Lise: Durrell's family has worked in agriculture for several generations.

First as slaves and then, within a single generation, for themselves on land that they saved for and purchased, a miraculous feat given the times and location they lived in.

♪♪ Having learned about his ancestors' land and business endeavors, Durrell would like to get a taste of what their lives would have been like as agriculturalists by visiting the Ellis family farm where he can work in the fields under the same hot Mississippi sun that his ancestors would have labored in.

♪♪ ♪♪ Durrell: I'll be honest wit' you.

If... if, like, if this were my land and it was makin' money, I wouldn't mind gettin' out here.

You know, if I'm workin' to feed my family, but this is the only job that I had, then yeah, I could do that.

You know, I'd get out here every day pick the fruit every day, pick vegetables every day.

I mean, I would do it.

Especially then because you didn't have many options.

The, the great part is to be able to imagine that to go from being a slave on, uh, some land this size to owning land this size in a, a very short period of time is pretty impressive.

♪♪ Lise: Durrell's last stop on his journey is the Gregory family reunion, where we can now share all that he's learned about his ancestors with his family.

[indistinct conversations, laughter] [indistinct conversations, laughter] [indistinct conversations, laughter] [indistinct conversations, laughter] - I feel like a renewed man.

I can't say a changed man because...

I think that process will take place now as I start going through the changes to, uh, definitely be more courageous like my great-grandfather, my great-great-grandfather, and my great-great- great-grandfather, so, you know, I think that I've discovered that, uh, I have some characteristics that were possessed by not only my great-grandfather, but, you know, his father, and his father's father, so, you know, it just gives you the confidence.

When you know where you came from and you know your roots, and you know your family history... gosh, man, I just feel like there's nothing I can't accomplish right now.

And knowing more about my family has helped me to establish a greater cause in terms of, like, choices that I make, businesses that I do, because now, I got people that I can add to my cause and people that can become a part of my cause, and, and it's a greater cause, greater than myself, now I can incorporate my family.

We talk about what it takes to be self-actualized.

If I could show you an example of what that is for me, it would be my great-grandfather.

And the fact that I don't have to step outside of my family to find that is remarkable.

♪♪ - How was the reunion?

Durrell: It was wonderful.

It was refreshing.

- How so?

- I met a lotta cousins that-- I have a cousin my age that I have never met before.

Lise: Really?

- It was good because she was actually writing a story about the family, so... Lise: She must have been thrilled with the information you got.

- She was very thrilled.

- Was everyone?

Did you share?

Durrell: Everybody was excited.

Everybody was excited.

They were all anticipating the reunion and meeting new family, meeting old family, just seein' everybody together in one place.

And it wasn't a funeral, so that was good.

Lise: That is a good thing.

Durrell: Yeah.

- Did you learn anything at the family reunion that you didn't know during our journey?

- Um, I did.

I learned so much through the whole process, sometimes I forget when and where I-- Lise: Sure.

- --y'know, 'cause it was, uh, it was all a very overwhelming experience, so.

- Well, let's talk about that because you've mentioned that to me before.

It really was overwhelming and you feel like you're still taking it in.

Yeah, well, this is a huge story, as it turns out.

Your story is bigger than you even imagined.

- Right, right.

Yeah, there was a, I, I relate it in my mind to a movie where this guy had been living his whole life, and, uh, all of a sudden, he comes to find out he's, like, the heir of a guy that was a billionaire.

Mr.

Deeds, you know that movie?

Lise: Yeah, I sure do.

- So, uh, it's kinda like, I feel the same way, but in terms of my family.

You know, like, I have this rich, deep family history that I never knew anything about, I never knew existed.

And see, if it weren't for the, uh, Generations Project, I never would've found any of that out-- well, I shouldn't say never, but, you know, I may not have known where to start.

Lise: Right.

- You know, so, it was good.

- What are you holding in your hands?

Durrell: Oh, it's a journal.

Uh, I've just kinda jotted down a few thoughts.

Lise: Anything you wanna share?

- Uh, sure.

Lise: This is since the journey or in the process of it?

- This is, uh, in the process of, since the journey, and I'll, I'll, I'll continue to write in here.

But I remember, I was on my way to Mississippi, and, uh, I was in the car, and I wanted to-- I had a thought.

I pulled over for gas, I even wrote down the location.

I was in Hoover, Alabama, at a Shell gas station, um, exit 17.

Lise: I love this.

Durrell: But it was, uh... it was, like, 4 o'clock in the morning, or it was pretty, it was pretty early.

Um, but here's, here's what I wrote.

"I want my life to matter.

And that is where my passion comes from."

And I wrote that, it was 2:45 in the morning.

I was on my way to Mississippi.

And, uh, that's kinda we-- you asked me earlier about what legacy is to me, and that's really what it boils down to, is I want to live a life that matters.

I want people to remember me, I want-- I just wanna be remembered.

Not as a... I-I-I wanna be remembered as good person.

You know, a person that loved everybody, you know, and that infected people in a good, positive way.

- Ooh, that's nice, that's nicely said.

Well, with this kind of history backing you up, Durrell.

Durrell: Oh, yeah.

- Well, we have to talk about some of these profound-- Durrell: Okay.

- --profound things that your ancestors did to change the trajectory of your entire family's existence.

Durrell: Right, right.

- In a time in our American history, where the African-American was crushed-- Durrell: Right, right.

- --they went from slavery-- - Right.

- --to land ownership.

- Mm-hm.

- A significant amount of land ownership.

And even after owning land, when Mississippi, we hear, was a very positive place, the tides turned against them.

Durrell: Right, exactly.

- And through all of that, they maintained this land, this legacy-- Durrell: Right.

Lise: --to the current day.

- Exactly.

Lise: Less than one percent, I mean, that is-- it's miraculous.

- Right, less than one percent.

- Does that just, like, blow your mind?

- It does.

It, it, it gives me chill bumps when I really think about... Man, you know, just, if you can imagine a guy that's-- that dares you, I dare you to come on my land, or I dare you to do something to my family.

To, to have that, you know, I feel that way about my family now.

Lise: Protective, papa bear.

- Right, exactly.

You know, because, like, uh, we hear about slavery, and we hear about the repercussions of this and the offspring of that.

But to come from a family where, yeah, okay, we went through slavery, but that's behind us now, we're free now.

You know, so, the question now becomes, what do we do now?

And to have family come together and say, well, you know, let's-- what's your suggestion?

Well, Imma go talk to, uh, about getting some land, y'all just wait here, I'll be back.

You know, I kinda think that that's... that's kinda the way probably, maybe, you know, not a 100% per-- not, not 100% sure as how it happened, but... - Yeah, filling in the blanks.

Durrell: You know, yeah, just to be aggressive and to be focused.

- See beyond.

- Right, exactly.

Okay, yeah, we, we had slavery, that was good, and, you know, but what are we gonna do now?

Lise: Yeah, I love that.

- And they left a lotta land for our family that is still in our family today.

Lise: Astounding.

- It is astounding.

- I'm, I'm s-- I'm so proud, I can imagine for you, it's hard to, to take it all in.

Durrell: It is, yes.

- Will it affect you for a long time?

- I-it, it will, in fact, it's become a part of who I am now.

Lise: How so?

- Well, um, a lot has changed for me since going through this process, because, uh, now, um, i-- it, it-- I look at what my intentions are.

So, it, it becomes a part, like-- well, I don't know how to say that, I can think it in my head, but it's hard for me.

Lise: I hear what you're saying, though.

You're conscious in a different way.

- Right, right.

My whole-- my intentions are different, in anything that I do, anything that I say.

Lise: You said something to me about here you were, this nomadic military kid, but you always considered yourself a Chicago guy-- Durrell: Right.

- --and now?

- Now, my roots are in Columbus, Mississippi.

- And you said it wouldn't matter how far, you know, if you were in Asia or Australia.

- Right.

It never matters where I drift off to.

Um, and it's one thing about African-American culture that's different from a lot of other cultures is that you have your culture that will kinda check you.

You know what I mean?

Lise: Wow, I like that.

- Like your religion that will check you, but see, the, the, the sad part about, um, African-Americans is that we didn't-- we don't really have a culture, so to speak, that will bring us back to reality, i-if you will, for lack of a better term.

Lise: No, it's well said.

- For me, now, my culture is my, uh-- Marcellous, Seldon, and Thomas Gregory.

You know, that's my culture.

- It sure is.

Durrell: Right, so, I always have that to fall back on.

Lise: How do you relate to them now?

I mean, does it... do you see connections in yourself in how you live your life and your actions that directly correlate to what you learned about them?

Durrell: I do.

I feel that there's a, uh...

I feel there's a unconscious torch that's being passed, or baton.

You know, I-I ran track in high school.

Lise: I love this imagery.

- You know, you kinda-- you run a race and you're really just waiting for your turn to run, and, uh, until the baton is passed, you can't run.

So, and I feel like now, I feel like it's being passed, and I-I'll gladly be the one to, to pick it up because now that I have this, this knowledge and I just don't see that desire, that passion to carry the baton or carry the torch in, uh, un anybody else in my family, which my mom has a great sense of, uh, who she is now, um-- Lise: Di-- uh, how has your mom responded to this information?

Durrell: We're just kind of, uh... she's, she's kinda waiting now to see how everything turns out, um, here.

But I think that unconsciously, there's a, there's a very good sense of pride here, you know, within our family.

Lise: Well, there should be.

- Yeah, my mom feels really good.

Lise: Oh, I'm so glad she does.

She has every right to feel really good.

- Right, right.

- These are her-- even closer in generation to her.

I know what it's like being out there in the field, in the heat with the bugs.

I know when you were sittin' with Floyd that the bugs were the size of... you know, coins from certain countries.

- Right, yeah, oh yeah.

Lise: What was that like for you?

And I mean, the cameras, a part of all this.

- Right, you know what?

Uh, the bugs weren't my main concern.

Lise: Oh, really?

- It was a snake or, you know, somethin' like that.

I, I was just looking right through the bugs and that's probably why they weren't-- they were flying around, but I was just getting them out my way so that if I saw a snake, I could react or respond.

- Talk about, you know, having more than one place to run.

You were using that great-grandfather's right there in the field.

Durrell: Yeah, I was like, okay, if a snake comes here, I can... Lise: Did the camera's affect your experience?

- Uh, no, because it was, uh-- I was so immersed into the environment of where my great-grandfather was and what he did, like, I just didn't think about it.

Lise: Good.

You told me an amazing story about a trip you took with your mom to Mississippi before this all began.

Durrell: Right, right.

- Please tell me that again.

Durrell: Okay, it was, uh-- and that part is still-- it's unfolding, even today, but it was two days before I went to Vegas.

Lise: Which is how we found you.

- Which is how-- right, which is how we got connected.

So, it was two days, we were in Mississippi, my mom was showing me the place where the family reunion was gonna take place.

I was like, Wow, Ma, this is nice.

And then, we had a conversation.

And she said, Man, you know what, Durrell?

And I could feel her, like, I could feel her.

You know how somebody ever said something to you-- Lise: Yes, I do.

Durrell: She like, Man, Durrell, it would be good if we could just have, you know, just something more to present to the family for the reunion.

If we could just find that research, just find out something about our family that we could present at the reunion.

And I was like, Ma, that would be nice.

So, lo and behold, I go to Vegas two days later, and then, it's later on in the week, I'm actually getting ready to fly back to Atlanta, and, uh, I run into a young lady.

Lise: You hear the word.

- Right.

I hear the word, I was like, uh, genealogist?

Wow, really?

So, I didn't think I had an interesting enough story to tell.

Lise: But we insisted you did.

- So, I'm, I'm bringing people for them to interview, and, uh-- - And they're like, what about you?

- Right, I'm like-- I was like, nah, you know, I don't, I don't know anything about my family.

Lise: Perfect, which is what we like.

- Right.

[chuckles] - When you find out you're gonna be on the show, you call your mom.

Durrell: I called her immediately.

Um, in fact, after that interview, I said, Ma, I just interviewed for a show that they do genealogy research.

How weird is that?

And she was like, Wait a minute, wha-- you're, you're still in Vegas?

Like, yes, I'm here, I'm getting ready to leave, and-- [clears throat] it was-- we talked on the phone for probably about an hour.

Lise: The stars aligning.

- Yeah.

- Everything coming together.

- Right, right.

- Who know that this would be the story that would come out of it?

- Right.

'Cause I had no idea.

- Well, you said something else to me about this experience, you felt was the beginning of achieving your legacy.

Durrell: Right, right, yeah, knowing... knowing about my great-grandfather and my-- knowing about my ancestors has helped me know more about myself.

And I know now what my tolerance for pain is.

I know what my strengths and my weaknesses are and what my weaknesses have been.

So, now, I can capitalize on those guys and get them outta there and, uh, and just really start this crusade.

You know, I'm excited about that.

I'm excited about where life is about to take me.

Lise: I'm excited about where life's about to take you.

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Durrell Daniels.

It was a thrilling ride for all of us.

And thank you for watching.

I'll see you the next time on The Generations Project.

♪♪