- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Atlantic Health System.

Building healthier communities.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Here when you need us most.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

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Prudential Financial.

And by New Jersey Institute of Technology.

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Promotional support provided by Insider NJ.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, I'm Steve Adubato.

This is part of our Reimagining Child Care conversation with four experts, four professionals, four people who care deeply about childcare in this state and this nation.

We're joined by Natasha Johnson, Assistant Commissioner for the New Jersey Division of Family Development.

And Winifred Smith-Jenkins, Director of Early Learning Policy and Advocacy at ACNJ, that's Advocates for Children of New Jersey.

And also Meghan Tavormina, President of the New Jersey Association for the Education of Young Children.

I wanna thank you all for joining us.

You honor us by being with us.

- Thank you for having us.

- You can say thank you, it's okay.

(panelists chuckling) Let's jump right into this.

Assistant Commissioner, I wanna ask you, we have been doing this Reimagine Child Care initiative for several years.

Talking about accessibility, affordability, quality childcare.

What, if any, progress have we made, in this state first, and in the nation, as it relates to those issues regarding childcare?

Please.

- So, good morning and thank you for having me.

I think we've made some progress in-state, we have had a tough three years in the childcare community in the state of New Jersey and nationally.

And I will say that it was exacerbated during the pandemic.

These are things that existed before, and it really came to the forefront during the pandemic.

We took some opportunities with state and federal funding during the pandemic to try to help the childcare community, and looking at the entire ecosystem for childcare.

So looking at how do we help parents, how do we help providers, and how do we help the workforce?

Because I think they all needed some assistance during this time.

So we took some opportunities.

Just give you a couple of examples, of looking at, you know, how do we, we in New Jersey actually had about $1 billion that we distributed during the course of the pandemic out to the childcare community.

And we looked at, for parents, eliminating copays that they had to pay to providers, and paying that directly to the providers.

We helped providers with operational costs, health and safety grants.

For the workforce, provided hiring and retention bonuses to assist providers in either retaining, or recruiting staff during the pandemic that we knew was very difficult.

Some people had facility needs that they needed money for.

Some of the things that people don't talk about is we increased some funding around mental health, and added health consultants to address some of the needs of kids and teachers during the pandemic that were really needed by the provider community.

And then we increased our subsidy rates for our children and our childcare assistance program during this time.

But, Natasha, let me ask you this.

And we appreciate you laying out what the Murphy administration has been doing in this regard.

And again, we'll make sure the websites for every organization is up.

Your particular division of family development will be up as well.

However, when we talk to childcare providers, Winifred, who say they can't hold onto their professionals in childcare centers, they can't afford to pay them what they need to be paid to do the job they're doing.

State government involved, federal, COVID money, not gonna be there any longer.

We don't know how the state's fiscal situation is gonna be.

From your point of view, Winifred, how are we doing as it relates to accessible, affordable childcare?

Despite all the positive things that the Assistant Commissioner just laid out, where are we falling short?

Please, Winifred.

- So I think we've made some great, some great first steps, I echo what Natasha has said.

We've had a really rough three years, but this didn't just start because of the pandemic.

This is a systemic problem that's been going on for a really long time.

There is a lot of work that still needs to be done to get us to accessible, affordable, high quality childcare.

- Okay, but let's be more specific.

Meghan, when it comes to the issue of, let's just deal with paying childcare professionals, workers/professionals, enough so that they stay in the profession, so that a childcare center can stay open, so there'll be more childcare centers for people to access in their community, and it's affordable, and it's decent quality childcare.

Am I oversimplifying it, Meghan?

- You are not oversimplifying it in thought, but in practice and systems, it's not that simple.

And as much as the providers would like for it to be that simple, and just to be able to infuse that money into our compensation streams, we do feel like most of our problems would become much lighter.

The reality of it is, is that we have to look at how we can use our current systems here in the state of New Jersey.

Money doesn't just drop in from the sky and land onto provider's desks.

That's what we would like to happen, but it's not what happens.

Has to come through a different system, it has to hit an array of different types of childcare providers.

But the real reality of it is that we... One thing that I think that has changed, to get to your point, Steve, is that I feel that society is starting to recognize the value of early education and those providers.

- Are we?

- I do.

I do think that we're starting to recognize the value and valuing them are two different things, right?

So valuing them means putting dollars behind it, exactly.

And so that's what we're working on.

- That's an Italian expression for money, I'm sorry.

- Yes.

(laughing) - There's a lot of rhetoric going around about children, childcare, it's important, quality, accessible childcare, and the economy directly related.

Rhetoric is easy, resources are hard.

Please Meghan, pick up your point.

- So finding the funding within the systems is really the challenge, right?

We're just not, as much as, you know, Natasha had mentioned, $1 billion sounds like that should have solved this problem.

But compensation isn't the only problem.

While, if you ask me, I might say it's the only problem, because it's something I'm very passionate about, it's not the only problem in the system.

And so those dollars dilute very quickly, much faster than you recognize.

I do think that we need to change the dialogue around what an early childhood professional is, and start using the right language to match those dollars.

So we need to be looking for- - Exactly.

- credentialed teachers.

We need to be looking for people with degrees, that affect your higher ed system.

So now we're bringing that complicated system into it.

We also need to be able to look at retaining the teachers that we have right now by compensating them now, not by what we want them to be 5 or 10 years down the road, because they're long gone by that point.

- Why are we not simply, I'm sorry, Meghan, for interrupting.

Why are we not treating childcare professionals in the same way we treat, (clearing throat) excuse me, K-12 public school teachers?

Why are we not doing that?

- Two reasons, the first reason is the funding is not equal.

You just have to lay that on the table.

The funding that goes into DOE versus the funding that goes into- - Department of Education, dollars going directly into public school districts in order to pay for what you need to pay for a quality education and keep, property taxes down in that community.

Go ahead, and then I'll keep going around on this.

- That's the first thing.

And the second thing, if we have to be really open and honest about it is the credentialing isn't the same because the requirements haven't always been the same.

To be a teacher in K-12, you have to be degreed and credentialed.

To be a teacher in early ed, it has not been a requirement.

And so if we wanna raise all of those things together, they do go in tandem.

- But is there an effort to, in fact, quote unquote, "professionalize," Assistant Commissioner, the profession by credentialing in a different way?

By having standards that are higher which would allow for potentially higher pay the state and the federal government being more committed to a funding system that's comparable to state funding for our public schools K-12.

Assistant Commissioner, please.

- So I think there are a couple of things going on in the system right now that hopefully will lead us to that.

So one is there is some conversation about the professionalism about the positions.

My colleagues at the Department of Children and Families are working on looking at a path for that to happen.

Some of that is on the way.

I will also just add that we have a quality rating and improvement system in our state called Grow NJ Kids that I think- - What's it called again?

- It's Grow NJ Kids, which is the quality rating and improvement system.

So essentially it's an initiative to help raise the quality of childcare and early learning across the state.

So it provides concrete support to providers to improve the services they're already providing.

And also about them getting new activities to improve quality.

I think the thing that people don't understand and respect about the childcare community is that education does not start in kindergarten, right, it starts early.

And so part of this program is helping providers to get the information that they need and the support that they need, so that we're laying that out for children and parents, for everyone to understand.

We also wanna move away from the nomenclature of "daycare," right?

Because I think the reality- - Say that again, this is a big one, because words matter, expressions matter.

- Yes.

- Framing the narrative matters, please, Assistant Commissioner.

- So I think we, you know, 'cause I think my back goes up every time I hear people say "daycare."

Because I know that our early learning community and childcare community are really educating children every single day.

- That's right.

- And I think in order for staff to be able to be seen as professionals, and seen the same as they are in the public school system, we have to get away from looking at it as if we're just babysitting or providing daycare to children.

- I'm gonna come back to you, Assistant Commissioner, to talk about the Thriving by Three grant program in just a minute.

But Winifred, I see you, you've been with us many times.

I see you shaking your head, nodding, not 'cause you're happy, but 'cause you're acknowledging it.

Please talk about the daycare, childcare issue.

- So we don't watch the day, right?

We are early learning professionals.

And so I think that that's really important to emphasize.

Words do matter.

- How the heck did we ever get to the point, Winifred?

And you understand this, because ACNJ, our long-time partner, Advocates for Children New Jersey website will be up.

Cecilia Zalkind, your previous leader, had done so much to help our initiative, Reimagining Childcare.

But I'm curious about this, you've seen this from a lot of perspectives, Winifred, how did we ever get to framing the narrative around childcare in such a trivial fashion?

- Oh, that's a big question, Steve.

- But that's part of the problem.

And I'm not, we're public broadcasting, we're tied, it's not my job to editorialize or do commentary, but it seems to me for all of us who've been, I've said this before, blessed, fortunate enough to be able to have and afford quality childcare for our kids.

It allows us not just to know they're gonna be okay and grow and develop before kindergarten, but that we can work and our families can thrive.

How did we ever get to the point where it was so trivialized like it's not that important?

Daycare, childcare, what's the difference?

Please, Winifred.

- So I think that it's rooted in racism and sexism, and we have to understand that, you know, just because you're a female doesn't necessarily mean that the work that you do isn't important, right?

And so I think that people have devalued the work that goes into educating and nurturing and caring for children, but also elevating our society, right?

We are planting the seeds, we're setting that foundation for everything else that's gonna come.

And until we value that, and we kind of start to change the way we care about the people who are caring for us, it's not gonna get better.

- I just wanna be clear, we're gonna take a break and we'll come right back.

And again, I wanna talk about Thriving by Three, a very important state initiative.

But Winifred, I wanna follow-up one more time on this.

Are you saying, because women, disproportionately are childcare professionals/workers, they staff childcare centers across this state and nation, that in and of itself, and a high percentage of those women happen to be minority women.

But that is part of the reason why childcare has been devalued and not respected to the degree it should be?

- Absolutely, I mean, if you think about it, civil servants, they don't necessarily have to have a degree, right?

So we're not talking about education at this point.

We're talking about gender, we're talking about race.

- For those who think this is a negative conversation or we're just describing the problem, I promise when we come back, we'll continue to do that.

We'll talk about some actions that need to be taken for our children, for families, to connect childcare equality, accessible, affordable childcare to our economy, to a thriving community.

And I'm off my soapbox, we'll be right back after this.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Welcome back, we continue our conversation about reimagining what childcare could and should be in this state and nation.

Natasha, if you could, describe Thriving by Three.

We'll put up the information, because there are a lot of folks who can and should be qualifying for that program and accessing it, please.

- Absolutely, so Thriving by Three is legislation that was signed into law by Governor Murphy in the summer of 2022.

And the purpose of the law was, one, to incentivize the expansion of capacity for infant and toddler slots.

So making sure that providers are available to serve kids in that age group.

It also had two other priorities.

One was providing technical assistance to childcare providers, and supporting the developmental needs of young children.

So sort of looking across the spectrum, of not only let's get the new slots, but obviously helping the providers to be able to serve infants and toddlers in their care.

It's a three-year grant program.

And so because of the unique needs of the provider types, so there are a couple of provider types in the state, there are center-based care for care done in centers, and then home-based care by family childcare providers.

- Do both of them qualify?

- Yes, they do, both of them qualify.

So because there are unique needs for those two different ways of providing childcare, we are implementing Thriving by Three in two different phases.

So phase one started in March of this year with childcare centers and Head Start programs.

And essentially what providers needed to do is complete an application process, where they talked about how they would increase capacity or add slots to their programs.

They had to demonstrate need, so some of how they demonstrated need was saying to us they have waiting lists, parents waiting to be able to put infants and toddlers in care.

Some of them had the capacity but no teachers; empty classrooms and no teachers.

And Megan and Winifred are very aware of the situation going on in the community.

So this is part of what they had to demonstrate in the application process.

A percentage of the grant funds that they will receive had to be used for teachers.

So they could use it to incentivize new teachers, give bonuses to existing, or any other options that the providers wanted to use to hire and retain staff.

- Let me just do this.

- Sure.

- With the website up right now, Assistant Commissioner, if someone accesses this, can they find out?

I'm sorry for interrupting, but I'm in short amount of time.

Can they find out more of the details, the specs, if you will, of the program?

- They can, so they can go to childcarenj.gov.

I will tell you that right now we have closed the applications for childcare centers, because we received over 540 applications statewide requesting more than 11,000 slots.

So because this is a three-year grant program, we are in the process right now of reviewing all those applications for eligibility, and then providing grants to the providers who are eligible.

And then we will be starting phase two which is for the in-home providers here soon.

- Thank you.

Megan, jump back in here.

Your reaction to, first of what impact, beyond the particulars of the program, what is, from your point of view, the most significant impact of Thriving by Three?

- I think the most significant impact is definitely the fact that's highlighting the need for this type of work.

From the state governments, local governments, just from the society in general, that infant and toddler care is expensive.

It's out of the cost of providers to be able to provide on their own.

And it's out of the reach of parents to be able to afford on their own.

So this type of legislation highlights the exact type of work that we need to start breaking down, and the problems that we need to start solving.

- So let's stay on that, and I wanna be clear on this, before we talk a little bit more about affordability.

Is Thriving by Three, it was legislation, was it in fact sponsored by State Senator Teresa Ruiz?

- [Asst Commissioner] Yes.

- Team, put up our website so people can look at the interview we did with Senator Ruiz where she talks in detail about that.

I wanna go to this question.

Winifred, I want you to jump on this, Megan, and Assistant Commissioner as well, Natasha.

Affordability, what specific programs exist, not just for childcare centers, regardless of what type they are, but for actual individuals?

Government support, state, and federal government support to help families afford quality accessible childcare?

Winifred.

- So I think that question's probably better answered by Natasha.

She can talk more about the subsidy system that exists in New Jersey.

- Not just the subsidy, but I'm talking about is it, we're talking about government.

The only support that would come would be from government, correct?

Meaning there's no movement in the private sector to help their employees afford childcare, by saying, "We're gonna discount it, we're gonna give you a subsidy, we're gonna do whatever."

That, it's isolated, but there's no movement in that regard.

- There are some businesses that I've heard of that are starting to look at childcare as a benefit similar to healthcare, to attract- - That's where I'm going.

- their own workforce.

And looking at centers that can provide their workforce the ability to do the work well, and recognizing the economic downfall that their industries have when childcare is not thriving.

I would not classify it as a movement, per se, but I know that there are some, and I cannot tell you which businesses, but just from being a provider, I know of a select few parents that have been able to take this benefit on.

- But think about this, again, I'm gonna try not to editorialize, but if you look at this from a practical point of view.

If retaining your best employees, which is a huge problem we've talked about in so many ways in our programming, if in fact a pension program matters, quality healthcare coverage matters, why would then childcare support not matter?

If, in fact, disproportionately for women, but for men as well, that it would help the family and help retain the workforce.

Isn't that smart business?

Assistant Commissioner, please.

- I think it is, I think some of it is awareness for people running businesses to be able to acknowledge that.

I can tell you, I have been in conversations with leaders of corporations, and companies, and small businesses, and medium businesses at large, who, it's a second thought.

They don't think about the impacts of childcare except when an employee calls out, can't come to work, and it impacts their day-to-day.

And so we have been trying to say to them, and you know, we use some of our staff at our local childcare resource and referral agencies, so there's one in every county, for employers to touch base with them.

They can help them think through, how can you partner with a local childcare center or family childcare provider to provide that support for your employees?

- Let's do this, we were talking about subsidies available to individuals.

You can go on the state website as well of the Division of Family Development.

Winifred, I'm gonna come back to you on something.

Is what we're talking about a "childcare crisis," quote, nationally or is there something unique about New Jersey that makes our healthcare challenges different?

Winifred.

- No, this is a national crisis, but I think childcare we have to remember is a market failure.

You can only charge what the market can bear, right?

And so the only way you can start to play around with anything, unfortunately, is with salaries and wages, right?

So we have to understand, until we start to better care about the people who are caring for us, we are not gonna change anything.

We've gotta properly compensate people, that's so important.

- Is there a discussion, I'm afraid to bring this up, but with the United States Congress, with our leaders in Washington, is there a meaningful dialogue going on?

Look, you can look at our website, see interviews we've done with Senator Booker, Senator Menendez, members of the congressional delegation, talking about this issue, childcare.

But is there a meaningful discussion going on in Washington about the national childcare crisis?

And what action the federal government needs to take beyond what it's doing right now?

Megan, how do you see that?

- I think that, to go backwards in the order of your questions, I think that we all recognize that childcare, the funding issue of childcare, has to be a braided and blended approach.

Where it's going to take federal resources, state resources, local resources, and private resources- - That's right.

- as well as parent input.

So when we isolate that conversation to what needs to come from the federal government, I think that is a conversation down in D.C.

I know that from the New Jersey delegation it's a strong conversation that's being brought down to D.C.

But I think that it gets diluted when it comes down to how are we gonna fund that, and how are we going to get that across into the right buckets, so that it affects change in the industry?

- We've got about a minute-and-a-half left.

Assistant Commissioner, the silver lining here as it relates to childcare.

The positive note, we wanna leave this program in a meaningful way, not a fake way, is what, where's the silver lining here?

- I think the silver lining is that we are here to support the childcare community.

I mean, Winifred, Meghan, and I have been on many conversations together over the years, and I think it does take an entire village and community to understand what the issues are.

We can't talk about these things in isolation, sort of to Megan's point right now, we can't point a finger in one direction.

Everyone has to come together.

It's employers, it's parents, it's providers, it's advocates, it's the state, it's the federal government; everyone has to be at the table.

And I do think the silver lining is that childcare is now on peoples' radars in a way that it never was before.

- Well said, and by the way, blaming is not a solution, it's just a thing we do.

- Right.

- But also the media, Winifred, and you've been with us so many times with Megan as well.

And Assistant Commissioner, we will look forward to having you back.

There are so many players in the childcare equation and that includes public awareness.

And this is not gonna turn this into a commercial for what we're doing.

With this initiative about Reimagining childcare, someone might say, "Well, haven't you had that discussion on childcare before?

Why are you doing that program again?"

It's like, are you serious?

Look at how far we need to go.

So I ask you, Winifred, the role of the media in terms of public information and awareness, childcare.

- We need to keep having these conversations.

We cannot allow the conversation to be over, because the problem isn't solved.

And it will make a difference on how the economy thrives and how families thrive.

- Megan, final words, silver lining?

- My silver lining is that you and other media outlets are still talking about it.

Because I think when we take our foot off that pedal that is very easy to get overridden by a lot of other social issues that are coming up as well.

So I thank you and other media outlets for continuing the conversation, so that nobody is under the false assumption that we are done.

- I wanna thank all of you for being, not just part of this program, but part of the movement, the effort, the commitment to quality, affordable, accessible childcare, and part of our conversation.

I wanna thank you so much.

So on behalf of our entire team, particularly those working on Reimagining childcare, we thank you for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Atlantic Health System.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Prudential Financial.

And by New Jersey Institute of Technology.

Promotional support provided by Insider NJ.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

- At the Turrell Fund, We know childcare creates transformative early learning experiences for young children, and helps families succeed.

Childcare is essential for the economy, driving financial growth and sustainability across all sectors.

The Turrell Fund envisions a New Jersey in which every infant and toddler has access to high quality, affordable childcare In order to grow, develop and thrive.

Our children are our future.

For more information, visit TurrellFund.org.