>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO INFOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO INFOCUS, SEEDS OF CHANGE.

NEW MEXICO LEGEND ARTURO SANDOVAL TELLS US ABOUT THE  ORIGINS OF EARTH DAY AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH  ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISM SINCE 1970.

>> Sandoval: JUST TO GET US GOING AND THAT IS WHAT EARTH  DAY DID, AND I THINK THAT IS STILL THE LARGEST SINGLE  PROTEST EVENT IN U.S. HISTORY, 20 MILLION PEOPLE AT OVER  10,000 SITES.

>> Jeff: AND WE BREAK DOWN NEW  ALLEGATIONS OF STATE TRANSPARENCY LAW VIOLATIONS  AGAINST BERNALILLO COUNTY ELECTED OFFICIALS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

THE SEARCH FOR THE NEXT BERNALILLO COUNTY MANAGER  MIGHT SOON BE IN JEOPARDY.

LAST WEEK THE NEW MEXICO  FOUNDATION FOR OPEN GOVERNMENT ASKED THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF  JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE CLAIMS THE BERNALILLO COUNTY  COMMISSION VIOLATED THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

THE QUESTION AT THE CENTER OF THE NONPROFIT'S REQUEST, DID  THREE OF THE COUNTY'S FIVE COMMISSIONERS COME UP WITH A  PLAN TO HIRE THE NEXT COUNTY MANAGER BEHIND CLOSED DOORS IN  AN ILLEGAL ROLLING QUORUM.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF TODAY'S  SHOW, I SIT DOWN WITH NM FOG EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MELANIE  MAJORS TO TALK ABOUT WHY PUBLIC BUSINESS SHOULD ALWAYS  BE CONDUCTED WITH THE DOOR OPEN.

BUT FIRST LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK TO A MOMENT IN 1970 WHEN  NEW MEXICO'S ARTURO SANDOVAL WAS RECRUITED TO HELP ORGANIZE  THE NATION'S FIRST EARTH DAY, A MASSIVE MOMENT THAT HELPED  INCITE CONGRESSIONAL AND CULTURAL ACTION.

IN A WIDE RANGING CONVERSATION WITH OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS  SANDOVAL TALKS ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS, THE EARLY DAYS OF THE  ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT, HOW ENVIRONMENTAL ACTION HAS BEEN  THWARTED OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES AND HIS VISION FOR THE  FUTURE.

HE ALSO TALKS ABOUT THE CENTER  OF SOUTHWEST CULTURE AND TWO OF ITS CURRENT PROJECTS, STORY  WRITERS AND SEMBRANDO SALUD.

>> Laura: ARTURO SANDOVAL,  WELCOME AND THANK YOU.

>> Sandoval: THANK YOU.

IT IS REALLY GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU LAURA AND LONG TIME  NO SEE BUT YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG,  LONG TIME.

SO THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE.

>> Laura: I AM GLAD FOR ALL OF OUR CONVERSATIONS OVER COFFEE  OVER THE YEARS NOW WE CAN SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

>> Sandoval: WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES.

>> LAURA: SO WE ARE GOING TO GO WAY BACK.

YOU GREW UP IN ESPANOLA AND YOU WERE WORKING AND LIVING  HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE IN 1970 WHEN DENNIS HAYES CALLED YOU  AND ASKED YOU TO HELP ORGANIZE THE NATION'S FIRST EARTH DAY.

WHAT WERE YOU DOING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND WHAT WAS THAT  CALL LIKE?

>> Sandoval: I WAS ATTENDING  UNM, GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN 1965, SO I HAD ATTENDED UNM  FOR A YEAR.

I THINK MY FRESHMAN, MAYBE MY  FIRST TWO YEARS, AND THEN MY MOM DIED AND THAT TOOK A LOT  OF WIND OUT OF MY SAILS.

I TOOK A YEAR OFF AND BECAME A  VISTA VOLUNTEER IN GUADALUPE COUNTY FOR ABOUT A  YEAR-AND-A-HALF.

I CAME BACK TO UNM IN THE FALL  OF '68.

SO I WAS AT UNM AND HAD HELPED  ORGANIZE THE UNITED NEW MEXICO AMERICAN STUDENTS AT UNM  BEGINNING IN FALL OF '68 AND I WAS VERY ACTIVE THERE AND WAS  VERY ACTIVE ON CAMPUS.

AND I GOT A CALL OUT OF THE  BLUE ONE DAY FROM ANDY GARLING.

HE WAS ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS OF EARTH DAY AND THEY WERE  LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO ORGANIZE THE WESTERN U.S.  AND THEY HAD A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES OUT OF THE WEST  COAST, UCLA OR USC, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY WERE HAPPY  WITH THEM.

THEY HEARD ABOUT ME THROUGH  ONE OF THE UNM PROFESSORS AT UNM WHO SAID, HE IS A REAL  CRACKER JACK.

HE SAID SOMETHING GOOD AND SO  THEY CALLED ME.

THEY INTERVIEWED ME FOR ABOUT  AN HOUR.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT EARTH DAY  WAS BUT WE HAD THAT LONG CONVERSATION, MAYBE AN HOUR ON  THE PHONE.

THEN, THEY WENT OFF TO TALK  AMONG THEMSELVES.

THEN THEY CALLED ME BACK AND  DID ANOTHER HOUR, MAYBE TWO HOURS ON THE PHONE.

AND THEN, FINALLY WE AGREED.

I SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS  WORTH DOING.

SO, LITERALLY WITHIN THREE  DAYS I WAS ON A PLANE TO DC TO START ORGANIZING EARTH DAY.

THAT IS HOW I GOT INVOLVED.

>> Laura: YEAH.

>> Sandoval: TWO PHONE CALLS.

>> Laura: WHEN WE USED TO TALK  ON THE PHONE WITH EACH OTHER.

>> Sandoval: THAT IS RIGHT.

WE HAD LAND LINES.

>> Laura: SO NOW MORE THAN  HALF A CENTURY LATER, DO YOU THINK THAT THE MOVEMENT WAS ON  THE RIGHT TRACK, WENT ASTRAY, LIKE WHERE ARE WE TODAY?

>> Sandoval: I THINK IT WAS A FANTASTIC MOVEMENT.

BACK IN THE LATE 60'S AND 70'S, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK  CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE CHICANO CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT,  THE INDIGENOUS CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT  FOR EQUAL RIGHTS WERE ALL FLOURISHING AND THERE WAS AN  ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY, DIRECT ACTION BY PEOPLE.

WE COULD ORGANIZE AND PROTEST.

AND ACTUALLY GET RESULTS AND  CHANGE THINGS BOTH LOCALLY AND NATIONALLY.

SO EARTH DAY HAD THAT KIND OF IMPACT BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS  UNDERLYING UNEASE, I THINK, IN THE COUNTRY THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T  FEEL THERE WAS ANY WAY FOR THEM TO EXPRESS THEIR UNEASE  OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND EARTH DAY, I THINK, PROVIDED THE SPARK.

IT WAS READY TO EXPLODE BUT THERE NEEDED TO BE A SPARK  JUST TO GET IT GOING.

AND THAT IS WHAT EARTH DAY DID  AND I THINK THAT IS STILL THE LARGEST SINGLE PROTEST EVENT  IN U.S. HISTORY.

IT WAS 20 MILLION PEOPLE AT  OVER 10,000 SITES.

IT JUST BLEW UP WAY BEYOND  WHAT WE HAD HOPED TO DO AND IT HAD A BIG IMPACT.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT THE CLEAN AIR ACT OUT OF IT.

WE GOT THE CLEAN WATER ACT OUT OF IT.

PRESIDENT NIXON, OF ALL PEOPLE, CREATED THE  ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY.

WE GOT THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

AND IN THE PERIOD OF THE 70'S IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING EARTH  DAY, IN THAT DECADE, DECADE-AND-A-HALF FOLLOWING  EARTH DAY CONGRESS ENACTED OVER 50 MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL  PROTECTION LAWS.

IT LOOKED TO US, AT THAT TIME,  ME AND THE OTHER ORGANIZERS, THAT WE HAD MADE A SIGNIFICANT  IMPACT AND THAT THE ENVIRONMENT WAS GOING TO BE IN  A BETTER PLACE.

FOR A SHORT PERIOD IT WAS.

AND THEN SOMETHING HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT WE RAN INTO AN ENEMY THAT WAS MUCH  BETTER ORGANIZED THAN US, MUCH MORE DISCIPLINED AND THAT WAS  UNFETTERED CAPITALISM.

THE CAPITALISTS ARE VERY  DISCIPLINED IN THEIR APPROACH AND POLITICAL STRATEGIES THEY  ARE VERY, VERY GOOD AT IT AND THEY HAVE ENORMOUS RESOURCES.

AND WHAT THEY PROCEEDED TO DO AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY IS THEY  HAVE COMPLETELY SUBORNED THE LEGISLATIVE, THE JUDICIAL AND  THE EXECUTIVE BRANCHES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND THE PROBLEM THAT CAN ARISE WITH CAPITALISM AND THAT WE  ARE FACING TODAY IN THE ENVIRONMENT IS THAT IF  CAPITALISM IS UNFETTERED, IF THERE IS NO BALANCE, IF THERE  IS NO CONTROL TO TRY TO REIN IN THE EXCESSES, THEN WE END  UP WITH WHAT WE HAVE TODAY WHICH IS REALLY SERIOUS  CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUES AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS  COUNTRY.

SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN  COMPLETELY SUBORNED BY CAPITALISM AND UNFETTERED  CAPITALISM WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR HUMANS AND OTHER  LIVING THINGS.

SAME THING WITH CONGRESS.

WE READ ALL THE TIME, TWO WEEKS AGO IN THE NEW YORK  TIMES, THEY WROTE A PIECE ABOUT HOW NOT JUST HERE IN THE  U.S.

BUT GLOBALLY THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, WANT  GUN CONTROL.

MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT  SOME CONTROL HERE.

WE ARE KILLING EACH OTHER LIKE  IT IS GOING OUT OF STYLE, BUT DESPITE THE FACT THERE IS HUGE  SUPPORT FOR IT AMONG THE POPULOUS WE HAVE NEVER GOTTEN  ANY MEANINGFUL GUN CONTROL LAWS PASSED.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE CAPITALISTS HAVE  COMPLETELY TAKEN OVER OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEMS, ESSENTIAL  GOVERNMENT THAT WE AS LOCAL PEOPLE, AS COMMON PEOPLE, RELY  ON TO CHECK, TO REIN IN THE EXCESSES OF CAPITALISM.

THOSE BALANCES ARE GONE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, FOR THE  MOST PART.

I AM PROBABLY PAINTING IT A  LITTLE MORE DIRE THAN IT ACTUALLY IS, BUT IT IS NOT  GOOD.

WE ARE IN SERIOUS, SERIOUS  PROBLEMS.

SO, BACK WHEN WE WERE 22 YEAR  OLDS OR 20 YEAR OLDS DOING EARTH DAY, WE STILL THOUGHT  THAT WE COULD WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM AND THAT ALL WE HAD TO  DO WAS REFORM IT, GET GOOD PEOPLE IN, ELECT THEM TO  CONGRESS, THEY'LL HAVE GOOD VALUES AND REFLECT THE WILL OF  THE PEOPLE.

AND THAT DID WORK, I THINK,  THROUGH THE 1970'S TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, NOT COMPLETELY  BUT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, AND THE 80'S, BUT THEN SINCE THEN  WE HAVE SEEN A STEADY AND ALMOST COMPLETE EROSION OF THE  CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THAT IS WHY WE WENT OFF THE  TRACKS AND WE ARE TOTALLY OFF THE TRACKS TODAY.

>> Laura: IN THE EARLY 2000'S, I INTERVIEWED RUSSELL TRAIN  WHO WAS AN EARLY EPA ADMINISTRATOR AND I ASKED HIM,  DO YOU THINK THAT ANY OF THESE LAWS COULD BE PASSED TODAY?

HE SAID, NO, BECAUSE AS SOON AS -- THE LOBBYISTS DIDN'T  KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THAT MOMENT AND NOW, YOU KNOW,  THE LOBBYISTS ARE LINED UP MAKING SURE THAT THINGS DON'T  HAPPEN.

SO, I MEAN, YOU'RE EXPERIENCE,  YOUR ANALYSIS IS DIRE BUT I THINK IT IS COMPLETELY SPOT ON.

>> Sandoval: CAPITALISTS ARE  VERY SMART.

NOW IF YOU LOOK AT, I MEAN,  THERE IS 139 COUNTRIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING  IN THIS YEAR'S EARTH DAY AND THAT IS PROBABLY 1.2 BILLION  PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE BUT DESPITE THAT, WHAT HAS  HAPPENED IS, THE MAJOR POLLUTERS, WHOEVER THEY ARE,  EXON, YOU COULD GO ON ALL DAY NAMING THEM, THEY JUST OVER  EARTH DAY.

SO, THEY SAY, THEY ARE GREEN.

THEY CLAIM TO BE VERY ECO FRIENDLY AND THEY RUN ADS  SAYING HOW FRIENDLY THEY ARE, HOW ECO FRIENDLY, AND THEY  HAVE THEIR STAFF IN CHEVRON T-SHIRTS OUT PLANTING TREES.

BUT THEY ARE JUST SHOWING -- WHILE THEY ARE DOING THIS 98%  OF THE TIME THEY ARE COMPLETELY DESTROYING THE  PLANET WITH EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES AND WHATEVER ELSE.

SO, THEY ARE VERY SMART IN HOW THEY CO-OP.

CAPITALISM IS GREAT AT CO-OPTING ANY THREAT TO ITS  EXISTENCE.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE  ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT.

YES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE  1.2 BILLION PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN ONE FORM OR  ANOTHER.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE JUST  PICKING UP TRASH, OTHERS MIGHT BE DOING SOMETHING MUCH MORE  SIGNIFICANT, BUT DESPITE THAT, WE ARE STILL NOT MAKING  HEADWAY TO CHANGE THE EXCESSES OF CAPITALISM AROUND THE GLOBE.

>> Laura: I AM GOING TO SHIFT  GEARS AND WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK TO THIS CONVERSATION, BUT  LOCALLY, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, OVER THE DECADES YOU HAVE DONE  SO MUCH WORK, CIVIL RIGHTS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,  AGRICULTURE, CULTURE, WE COULD DO AN ENTIRE SERIES ON THE  WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE OVER THE DECADES, BUT I WOULD LIKE  TO TALK ABOUT TWO OF THE CURRENT PROJECTS AT THE CENTER  OF SOUTHWEST CULTURE WHICH YOU FOUNDED RELATED TO GARDENING  AND BIKE RIDING.

IF YOU WOULD TALK ABOUT THOSE  TWO PROGRAMS AND WHY THEY ARE SO IMPORTANT.

>> Sandoval: LET ME START WITH OUR BIKE RIDING PROGRAM.

THAT WAS AN IDEA.

I HAD A YOUNG MAN WHO KEPT  COMING TO ME WITH IDEAS FOR WANTING TO DO SOMETHING  ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN OF COLOR, INDIGENOUS AND CHICANO  KIDS, STARTING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, BECAUSE HE WAS  WORKING IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HE SAW THAT THE  AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS TENDED TO JUST WAREHOUSE THE KIDS.

SO THEY WERE HAVING LONG DAYS WAITING FOR THEIR PARENTS TO  PICK THEM UP AT 5 OR 5:30, AFTER SCHOOL LET OUT OF 2:30  OR 3.

HE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF  SAYING, WHAT IF WE GET THEM ACTIVE, LET'S GET THEM ON  BICYCLES, TEACH THEM HOW TO REPAIR BIKES AND HOW TO BUILD  BIKES AND BUILD A CURRICULUM THAT IS REALLY SORT OF STEAM  BASED, BUT IT IS THROUGH A COMPLETELY CULTURAL LENS.

IT IS INDIGENOUS VIEWPOINT, IT IS THE MEXICANOS AND CHICANO  VIEWPOINT OF SCIENCE AND MATH AND ALL OF THAT.

SO, WE TEACH THEM HOW TO RIDE BIKES, TEACH THEM HOW TO  REPAIR BIKES, BUILD BIKES.

THEN WE TAKE THEM OUT FOR  RIDES IN THE BOSQUE HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND WE HAVE  CURANDEROS WAITING FOR THEM TO TALK ABOUT MEDICINAL HERBS AND  THEIR USES IN OUR COMMUNITY OVER THE CENTURIES.

AND THEN WE HAVE SCIENTISTS THAT COME DOWN AND MEET THEM  IN THE BOSQUE AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE HYDROLOGY AND THE  DRAINAGE OF THE RIO GRANDE BASIN AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN  AND WHAT IS HYDROLOGY.

AND THEN WE HAVE GREAT ARTISTS  THAT DO FOUND ART.

THEY GO IN AND DO ART PIECES  WITH NATURAL MATERIALS THAT ARE IN THE BOSQUE, BEAUTIFUL,  AND WE TAKE PICTURES OF THOSE AND THEN THE KIDS COME BACK  AND WRITE THAT UP.

THEY WRITE UP WHAT DID THEY  LEARN.

WHAT DID THEY LIKE ABOUT WHAT  THEY LEARNED.

AND THEN AT THE END OF THE  PROGRAM, THEY INVITE THEIR PARENTS AND THE PARENTS GO OUT  AND THE KIDS, EACH TEACH THEIR PARENTS SOMETHING THEY  LEARNED.

SO, SOME KIDS LIKE TO TALK  ABOUT THE HERBS.

THEY'LL TALK TO THEIR PARENTS  ABOUT IT AND THEN WHEN THE PROGRAM IS OVER, EACH CHILD  AND EACH PARENT GETS A FREE BIKE FROM OUR PROGRAM.

IT IS A GREAT PROGRAM AND ANOTHER PART OF THAT STORY  WRITERS PROGRAM IS, WE CALL IT ABUELITAS.

IT'S FOR MEXICAN WOMEN AND THEIR DAUGHTERS, BECAUSE  GLOBALLY WE KNOW THAT MOST BICYCLING THAT IS DONE OUTSIDE  OF THE U.S. IS DONE BY MOSTLY MEN WHO USE THE BIKES TO GO TO  WORK, ET CETERA.

AND WOMEN TEND TO BE HOMEBOUND  BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A WAY TO GET AROUND.

SO, WE ARE TEACHING MEXICANOS IMMIGRANTS HOW TO RIDE BIKES  AND WE TEACH THEM BIKE SAFETY.

WE DO THE SAME THING WITH THEM  AND AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM THEY TAKE THEIR OWN BIKE HOME  AND WE HOPE THEY DON'T RUN INTO ANY LIGHT POSTS.

THAT IS A REALLY GREAT PROGRAM BECAUSE IT IS SO JOYFUL.

IT'S GREAT FOR THE KIDS AND WE JUST LOVE THE IMPACT IT IS  HAVING ON OUR FAMILIES.

ANOTHER GREAT PROGRAM IS YOUR  BACKYARD GARDENING PROGRAM WHICH IS CALLED SEMBRANDO  SALUD.

SO THIS, YEAR WE'LL HAVE 3200  PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE PARTICIPATING IN BACKYARD  GARDENS.

THE IDEA WAS, ONE OF OUR  ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIVISION PROGRAMS IS WE ARE TRYING TO  CREATE RURAL ECONOMIES AND RECREATE LOCAL ECONOMIES THAT  HAVE SORT OF ATROPHIED INTO TRANSFER ECONOMIES.

THERE IS NOTHING REALLY GOING ON TO CREATE ANY KIND OF  INCOME OR WEALTH FOR PEOPLE.

SO THE LONG RESULT OF THAT IS  THOSE COMMUNITIES DIE AND THESE ARE LAND-BASED  TRADITIONAL AND THE PUEBLOS HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT ALSO.

SO, WE HAD SOME FARMERS SELLING AT FARMERS MARKET.

I NOTICED WHEN I WENT THAT IT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE.

IF YOU BUY LOCALLY ORGANIC IT IS NOT SUBSIDIZED BY THE  GOVERNMENT LIKE AGRIBUSINESS IS, SO IT GETS SUBSIDIZED TO A  HUGE EXTENT SO THAT IS WHY IT IS CHEAPER FOR US TO BUY THOSE  VEGETABLES THAN IT IS LOCALLY GROWN.

I NOTICED THAT NONE OF OUR PEOPLE WERE BUYING AT FARMERS  MARKETS PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE PRICE BARRIER.

IT OCCURRED TO ME WHY DON'T WE JUST ELIMINATE THE MIDDLEMAN  AND GO STRAIGHT TO GROWING OUR OWN.

WE HAVE 3200 PEOPLE THIS YEAR WILL BE GROWING ORGANIC  VEGETABLES.

WE PROVIDE THE SEEDS.

WE PROVIDE THE DRIP SYSTEM.

WE PROVIDE SOIL ENHANCERS TO  GET THEM STARTED.

WE TEACH THEM HOW TO PLANT,  WHAT COMPANION PLANTING IS.

WE TEACH THEM HOW TO COMPOST  AND HOW TO HARVEST SEED BEFORE THEY EAT EVERYTHING BEFORE IT  GOES TO SEED.

AND IT IS JUST GREAT RESULTS  BECAUSE IT GETS KIDS AWAY FROM ALWAYS BEING ON THE I-PAD AND  DAD GETS OFF FROM WATCHING THE TV OR WHATEVER AND THE FAMILY  STARTS REBUILDING THEIR BOND.

IT HAS BEEN A BEAUTIFUL THING  TO SEE, BUT THEY ARE EATING HEALTHY AND SAVING MONEY ON  THE FOOD BUDGET.

WE ARE TRACKING THIS.

WE ARE DOING EVALUATIONS OF THIS TO SEE WHAT ARE THOSE  SAVINGS AND THEY ARE BECOMING VERY SIGNIFICANT.

WE ARE VERY, VERY PROUD OF BOTH OF THOSE PROGRAMS.

>> Laura: I LOVE BOTH OF THOSE PROGRAMS BECAUSE, LIKE YOU  SAID, THEY ARE JOYFUL WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE LIKE  BIG HUGE ISSUES.

IT IS NICE TO REMEMBER THAT ON  THE GROUND, ON WHEELS, IN OUR GARDENS, JOYFULNESS IS A PART  OF ALL OF THIS WORK.

>> Sandoval: THE POINT OF THE  WORK WE DO AT THE CENTER ISN'T JUST THE PROGRAM, TO DO THESE  PROGRAMS.

BUT THERE IS REAL VALUES  BEHIND IT AND THAT IS, WE WANT OUR COMMUNITIES TO BECOME AS  SELF SUFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE, SO WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD  SMALL SILOS OF COMPLETE CIRCLES, SMALL ECONOMIC  CIRCLES THAT ARE SELF SUSTAINING SO THAT IF ANOTHER  PANDEMIC COMES.

WHEN THE FIRST ONE HIT, PEOPLE  WENT TO THE STORES AND THERE WERE SHORTAGES FOR A WHILE,  BEANS AND RICE WERE GONE, CERTAINLY TOILET PAPER  COULDN'T BE FOUND.

SO WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS  CREATE THE CAPACITY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL NEW MEXICO  COMMUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO GROW THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEN OUT OF  HAVING LEARNED ON HOW TO DO THAT AND WORK COLLECTIVELY TO  DO THAT, HOW CAN THEY THEN THEY TAKE ON THE LOCAL SCHOOL  DISTRICT TO MAKE DEFINITE CHANGES?

HOW DO THEY IMPACT THE COUNTY COMMISSION TO SAY, WE HAVEN'T  HAD OUR ROADS PAVED IN 40 YEARS, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

WE'RE TRYING TO EMPOWER OUR OWN COMMUNITIES AND OUR HOPE  IS THAT WE KEEP BUILDING THESE SMALL LITTLE DROPS THAT  EVENTUALLY BECOME A LITTLE STREAM AND MAYBE EVENTUALLY  BECOME A RIVER.

>> WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT  THE PERSON IS QUALIFIED, THAT THE PERSON HAS THE BACKGROUND,  THE UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO DO  THIS JOB BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE HIRING  PROCESS IS FAIR.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE, MAYBE PEOPLE OF COLOR,  MAYBE DIFFERENT GENDERS, ET CETERA, THAT EVERYONE IS GIVEN  AN EQUAL FOOTING AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BE CONSIDERED  FOR A JOB WHEN THEY ARE QUALIFIED TO COMPLETE AND DO  WELL IN.

>> Laura: FOR DECADES YOU HAVE  BEEN SOMEONE WHO HAS TALKED ABOUT DECOLONIZATION AND  EDUCATION.

I HAVE SEEN YOU QUOTED ABOUT  THE PROCESS OF DECOLONIZING, UNDERSTANDING HOW COLONIZATION  WORKS AND ALSO HOW IT DEHUMANIZES THE COLONIZER.

WHY IS DECOLONIZATION AND EDUCATION AROUND  DECOLONIZATION SO CRITICAL TO UNDERSTANDING CAPITALISM AND  ALSO ENVIRONMENTAL INJUSTICES?

>> Sandoval: THOSE ARE ALL  TIED TOGETHER.

THE TERRIBLE THING ABOUT  COLONIZATION IS THAT FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN EVEN  THEIR MINORITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BRITISH WERE A VAST  MINORITY IN INDIA BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO RULE IT BECAUSE  OF THE PROCESS OF COLONIZATION WHERE THEY DEHUMANIZED THE  PERSONS WHOSE COUNTRY THEY TAKE OVER AND WHOSE RESOURCES  THEY STEAL FOR THEIR OWN USES.

AND THEN OVER TIME, THEY TEACH  THE PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE COLONIZED, THAT THEY HAVE  CONQUERED, THAT THEY ARE SECOND RATE, THEY ARE INFERIOR  AND ALL THE TOOLS THEY HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSAL, MEDIA,  EVERYTHING IS USED TO KEEP HAMMERING THE IDEA TO THE  COLONIZED PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE SUBHUMAN, YOU ARE NOT  ACCEPTABLE.

YOU'RE POOR BECAUSE OF YOUR  OWN FAILING.

IT IS YOUR FAULT.

I AM WEALTHY, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

IF I MADE IT, WHY CAN'T YOU MAKE IT.

AND THEY TROT OUT EXAMPLES EVERY SO OFTEN OF A BROWN FACE  THAT HAS MADE A MILLION AND IS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE.

AND THE PHRASE WE USE IN AMERICA OVER AND OVER IS ONLY  IN AMERICA.

AND THEY TROT OUT IMMIGRANTS,  OH, YEAH, ONLY IN AMERICA.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

THERE IS PEOPLE GOING FROM POVERTY TO WEALTH ALL OVER THE  GLOBE IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN EVERY ECONOMY, BUT IT IS  PART OF THE MYTH AND LIE OF COLONIZATION, THAT AMERICA IS  THE SHINING LIGHT ON THE HILL AND THAT ONLY THAT WE ARE THE  GUARDIANS OF JUSTICE.

AND THE REALITY IS, THE U.S.,  SINCE THE END WORLD WAR II HAS BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR MURDERING  SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 20 AND 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN PROXY  WARS AND INDIRECT INTERVENTIONS.

NEED I SAY, GAZA AND ISRAEL TODAY.

WE CAN GO ON ALL DAY.

HAITI.

FOR YEARS AND YEARS, EVERY TIME WE DIDN'T LIKE WHAT WAS  GOING ON IN HAITI, WE WOULD SEND IN THE TROOPS AND NOW IT  IS COMPLETELY COLLAPSING BECAUSE OF THIS CONTINUED  INTERVENTION.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS THE BORDER,  WHICH IS REALLY A HOT TOPIC BUT WHY ARE ALL THESE CENTRAL  AMERICANS TRYING TO GET TO THE U.S.?

BECAUSE WE INVENTED GUNBOAT DIPLOMACY.

THE U.S., THE MONROE DOCTRINE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 1800'S  WHERE WE TOLD EUROPE, THIS IS OUR AREA TO EXPLOIT.

IF WE DIDN'T LIKE THE DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED  GOVERNMENT IN, LET'S SAY, GUATEMALA, WE USED GUNBOAT  DIPLOMACY, LITERALLY.

WE SENT IN WAR SHIPS TO  OVERTHROW FREELY-ELECTED GOVERNMENTS.

WE DID IT AS RECENTLY AS CHILE WITH ALLENDE.

WE JUST GAVE THE OKAY TO PINOCHET AND THE MILITARY.

WE SENT IN THE CIA AND WE JUST LITERALLY BOMBED THEM AND WE  KILLED THEM.

THAT WAS ALL HENRY KISSINGER,  THAT WAS THE U.S. WE JUST KEEP DOING IT.

SO, THEN WE ACT SHOCKED, WHY DON'T THEY JUST STAY IN THEIR  OWN COUNTRY?

BECAUSE WE HAVE STOLEN  EVERYTHING FROM THEM, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HERE.

WE HAVE THEIR WEALTH.

SO IT IS COMPLICATED.

I AM MAKING IT MORE SIMPLE THAN IT IS, BUT THAT IS THE  GENERAL TREND.

>> Laura: YEAH.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST.

YOU HAVE A POSTCAPITALIST POSTMODERATE VISION FOR  SOCIETY ESPECIALLY FOR INDIGENOUS AND MEXICANOS  TACANO PEOPLE AND WORKING PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO.

AND YOU HAVE TALKED TO ME ABOUT THIS IDEA OF BACK TO THE  FUTURE.

WILL YOU TALK ABOUT THIS  VISION?

>> Sandoval: YES, BECAUSE  FUTURE SOCIOLOGISTS ARE JUST STARTING TO WRITE ABOUT  PREFIGURATIVE MODELS FOR A POSTCAPITALIST ECONOMY.

FOR ME IT MEANS -- IN NEW MEXICO IT MEANS FOR OUR  COMMUNITIES GOING BACK TO THE FUTURE.

THAT IS, ALL OF OUR PUEBLO AND COMMUNITIES STILL EXIST AND  ALWAYS EXISTED AND LIVED IN COMMUNAL MODELS.

THEY HAD KIVAS.

THEY HAD CLANS.

THEY HAD KINSHIP AND STILL HAVE THAT.

SO, THEY WERE ACCUSTOM, AS A WAY OF OPERATING IN THE WORLD  AND WITH EACH OTHER, TO DO IT AS A COMMUNAL EXERCISE ALWAYS.

AND THE LAND-BASED CHICANO COMMUNITIES HERE IN NEW  MEXICO, WE HAD ACEQUIAS, WHICH ARE COMMUNAL MODELS, LAND  GRANTS WERE COMMUNAL MODELS.

AND THOSE WERE ECONOMIC MODELS  NOT JUST SOCIAL MODELS.

BUT RELIGION, ECONOMY, SOCIAL  LIFE, ALL OF OUR SOCIAL INTERACTIONS, IN BOTH OUR  INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES IN NEW MEXICO AND OUR LAND-BASED  CHICANO COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN HERE ABOUT 400 YEARS WERE  COMMUNAL MODELS.

THAT IS HOW WE LIVED.

AND WE HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM IT BECAUSE OF THE CAPITALIST  SYSTEM AND THE EMPHASIS ON INDIVIDUAL ACHIEVEMENT AND MY  ACHIEVEMENT, MY SUCCESS AT YOUR FAILURE, AND THAT KIND OF  STUFF.

SO, WHAT WE PREACH IN OUR  ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MODELS AND IN OUR WORK EVERYDAY IS  LET'S JUST GO BACK TO THE FUTURE.

SO, WE FORMED CO-OPS.

WE TRY TO GET THEM TO  INCORPORATE AS CO-OPS WHICH THE CAPITAL SYSTEM STILL  PERMITS.

THEY ARE COMMUNAL MODELS OF  OWNING.

THEY ARE MEANS OF PRODUCTION  SO WE GET THEM, SO WE DON'T CALL THEM CLANS OR KINSHIP,  BUT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE VERY FAMILIAR AND HAVE NOT  FORGOTTEN HOW TO WORK COOPERATIVELY.

SO, WE ARE NOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THE IMPACTS  OF COLONIZATION HAVE CREATED HUGE DESTRUCTION.

WE HAVE INTERNALIZED COLONIZATION.

SO, PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THEY ARE WORTHY OF SUCCESS.

I MEAN, WE MEDICATE OURSELVES.

WE HAVE A HUGE ALCOHOL,  FENTANYL, HEROIN PROBLEM ALL OVER RURAL NEW MEXICO IN OUR  COMMUNITIES.

AND IT IS WIPING THEM OUT.

IT IS HOLLOWING OUT OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES AND WE ARE TRYING  TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT.

>> Laura: SO, THIS IS LIKE A  CONVERSATION THAT I FEEL LIKE WE ALL WANT TO HAVE OR MANY OF  US WANT TO HAVE AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO.

I THOUGHT YOU AND I COULD HAVE IT.

I FEEL LIKE SOMETHING THAT MANY OF US STRUGGLE WITH IS  DIVISIVENESS AND DISINFORMATION.

AND I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW WE RECOGNIZE  AND RESPECT ONE ANOTHER'S DIFFERENCES WHILE ALSO  BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS AND SEWING LOVE AND FIGURING OUT  WAYS TO SUSTAIN LONG-TERM  MOVEMENTS AGAINST SYSTEMS LIKE CAPITALISM THAT HARM PEOPLE  AND THE ENVIRONMENT?

>> Sandoval: I WISH THERE WAS  ONE SIMPLE ANSWER TO THAT.

THERE ISN'T.

CAPITALISM IS A VERY COMPLEX THING AND CONSTANTLY CHANGING  AND ADAPTING TO MEET THREATS TO ITS EXISTENCE, BUT I THINK  WE HAVE TO DO A LOT OF THINGS.

THERE IS NO ONE SILVER BULLET.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF REALLY FANTASTIC COMMUNITIES  AND PEOPLES ALL ACTIVELY WORKING WITHIN THE EXISTING  POLITICAL SYSTEM AND THEY ARE HAVING IMPACT.

HERE IN NEW MEXICO, I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF GROUPS  WORKING TO CHANGE ISSUES AND I THINK THEY HAVE CHANGED THE  MAKEUP OF THE LEGISLATURE.

THERE IS YOUNGER, MORE  PROGRESSIVE PEOPLE NOW IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS IN BOTH  THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND THAT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE  OVERALL WE ARE GETTING BETTER LEGISLATION THAT COMES OUT OF  THAT.

THAT IS HELPING POORER  COMMUNITIES AND MORE IMPACTED COMMUNITIES.

WE HAVE TO DO THE ONGOING WORK EVERYDAY LIKE, YEAH, VOTING,  BLAH, BLAH, I DON'T THINK SO.

WE CAN GET CYNICAL.

IT'S EASY TO GET CYNICAL.

WE HAVE TO DO THAT BUT WE CAN  ALSO DO OUR OWN THINGS.

WE HAVE TO START CREATING OUR  OWN SYSTEMS THAT ARE MAYBE SMALL SCALE BUT THAT CAN GROW  OVER TIME, THAT WE OWN, THAT WE CONTROL, THAT BENEFIT US  DIRECTLY AND FORCE US TO BECOME SMARTER, MORE ADEPT AND  MORE AGILE IN EVERYTHING WE DO.

LOVE IS THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE IN THE WORLD.

I WENT THROUGH A PERIOD WHEN I WAS FIRST STARTING OUT AS A  YOUNG ACTIVIST WHERE I HATED WHITE PEOPLE OR I THOUGHT I  DID.

I WENT THROUGH ABOUT A YEAR  WHERE I TOLD ALL MY WHITE FRIENDS, DON'T CALL ME, I  NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE DEVILS  AND I'LL RUN THEM OVER IF I SEE THEM OUT ON THE STREET.

OF COURSE, I DIDN'T.

BUT I DID GO THROUGH A PERIOD  WHERE I FELT HATRED IN MY HEART.

AFTER ABOUT A YEAR, I NOTICED THAT IT WAS DOING A LOT OF  DAMAGE TO MYSELF.

I DECIDED THAT IS NOT A GOOD  PATH.

AND REALLY THE ONLY WAY FOR US  TO SUCCEED IS TO -- WE HAVE TO WORK ON OURSELVES, UNDERSTAND  IF THERE IS INTERNAL COLONIZATION ISSUES, WORK THEM  OUT.

IT IS NOT EASY TO FACE  OURSELVES AND BE HONEST ABOUT WHO WE ARE AND WHAT OUR  FAILINGS MIGHT BE AND HOW WE BECOME BETTER.

THEN IT IS REAL HARD TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO OPEN YOURSELF  TO OTHERS.

AND JUST SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT,  NOW I TRY TO FOLLOW WHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID, WHICH  IS, IN HIS FAMOUS SPEECH, WE SHOULD JUDGE EACH OTHER BY THE  CONTENT OF OUR CHARACTER AND NOT THE COLOR OF OUR SKIN.

THAT IS THE MANTRA WE USE AT THE CENTER.

I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR, SHAPE, I DON'T CARE WHO, I  DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF DOG YOU HAVE.

REALLY, ARE YOU A PERSON OF GOOD SOUL AND GOOD HEART?

IF YOU ARE, I AM WILLING TO ENGAGE WITH YOU AND I DON'T  CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

I THINK THAT IS THE PATH FOR US TO FIND THE HUMANITY IN  EACH OTHER AND TRY TO NURTURE THAT, RESPECTING BOUNDARIES,  YOU KNOW, BUT STILL BEING OPEN TO OTHERS.

THE REASON THERE IS SO MUCH HATRED, I THINK, IN THE WORLD  IS WE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR HOW WE ARE DIFFERENT.

INSTEAD OF THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE THESE LITTLE  CREATURES ON THIS BEAUTIFUL SMALL PLANET SPINNING THROUGH  SPACE AND WE ARE EARTHLINGS.

AND I CALL ALL MY EARTH DAY  BUDDIES EARTHLINGS WHEN I WROTE THEM OR CALL THEM, I SAY  HELLO EARTHLINGS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL WE ARE.

WE ARE ALL -- THERE IS REALLY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND  WE SHOULD SEPARATE THE CULTURAL UNIQUENESS OF EACH  OTHER BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ARE ON THIS SHIP  TOGETHER.

IF WE DON'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO  FIX IT, WE ARE ALL GOING UNDER TOGETHER.

>> Laura: ARTURO, I APPRECIATE ALL THAT I HAVE LEARNED FROM  YOU OVER THE YEARS AND I APPRECIATE ALL YOU HAVE DONE  FOR NEW MEXICO AND I APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN  TODAY.

>> Sandoval: THANKS, SO MUCH.

IT HAS BEEN FUN AND LET'S DO IT AGAIN SOME TIME.

THANKS LAURA.

>> Jeff: THANKS AGAIN TO  ARTURO AND LAURA FOR THAT INTERVIEW.

IN 2016 THE PUEBLO OF SANTA ANA PAID 30 MILLION-DOLLARS  FOR 60,000 ACRES OF THEIR OWN ANCESTRAL LAND, LANDS THAT HAD  BEEN PRIVATIZED AND THEN GRAZED FOR MORE THAN A  CENTURY.

NOW, THEY ARE USING  TRADITIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND WESTERN SCIENCE TO PROTECT  TAMAYA KWI KEE NEE PUU FOR TRADITIONAL USES.

ALONG THE WAY THE PUEBLO IS PROTECTING CULTURAL HERITAGE,  RESTORING GRASSLAND AND SPRINGS, REMOVING FENCE LINES,  AND STUDYING AND HELPING SPECIES LIKE MOUNTAIN LIONS,  ELK, DEER, PRONG HORN AND MORE.

IN AN OUR LAND SPECIAL AIRING ON NMPBS ON APRIL 25, LAURA  VISITS TAMAYA KWI KEE NEE PUU.

HERE IS A SAMPLE OF THAT PIECE.

>> Laura: IN AN OUR LAND  SPECIAL, WE VISIT TAMAYA KWI KEE NEE PU, LANDS THE PUEBLO  OF SANTA ANA BOUGHT BACK.

NOW THEY ARE RESTORING THOSE  LANDS, PROTECTING WILDLIFE AND SUSTAINING THE PUEBLO'S  FUTURE.

THIS PLACE CONNECTS ME TO THE  PAST.

GROWING UP YOU HEAR ALL THESE  STORIES OF, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE CAME FROM, WHERE WE HAVE BEEN,  BUT LIKE KIND OF SEEING IT PHYSICALLY, KIND OF, IT PUTS A  BIGGER IMPACT.

IT IS KIND OF EYE OPENING FOR  ME, KIND OF JUST LIKE REINFORCES THAT WANTING TO  KNOW WHO YOU ARE, WHERE YOU COME FROM.

>> THE ENTIRE HISTORY DATING BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS IS  REPRESENTED OUT HERE.

>> IN CONTRAST TO  ARCHEOLOGISTS MOSTLY DOING RESEARCH AND EXCAVATION, THE  HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE IS REALLY MORE ABOUT  PRESERVATION, STEWARDSHIP OF CULTURAL SITES AND PROTECTING  THEM.

>> IT IS TELLING OUR STORY  FROM THE BEGINNING BUT THEN IT ALSO ADDING IN, YOU KNOW, THE  PRESENT.

OUR STORIES ARE GETTING BIGGER  AND BIGGER AS THE YEARS GO BY.

>> IT'S SMALL.

I DON'T EVEN FIT IN THERE.

YOU CAN SEE THE HEARTHS WHERE THEY BUILT THE FIRE, BUT YOU  CAN KIND OF IMAGINE ALL THE THINGS THEY DID BACK THEN,  JUST LIVING.

IT IS JUST REALLY COOL KIND OF  TO TAKE A STEP BACK IN TIME.

>> THERE IS A PLACE I GREW UP,  JUST SEEMED LIKE IT IS PRETTY MUCH NIGHT AND DAY, BECAUSE  BEFORE EVERYONE WAS COMING AND, LIKE, DUMPING THEIR TRASH  OR ATV'S, DIRT BIKES AROUND HERE.

AND NOW THERE IS GRASS WHERE YOU DON'T SEE GRASS.

YOU CAN SEE DEER AND ELK AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN DEER AND ELK  OUT HERE UNTIL A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

>> Jeff: THAT OUR LAND SPECIAL WILL RUN APRIL 25TH AT 7:00  P.M. ON NMPBS.

LAST WEEK, NEW MEXICO  FOUNDATION FOR OPEN GOVERNMENT ASKED THE STATE'S DEPARTMENT  OF JUSTICE TO INVESTIGATE CLAIMS THE BERNALILLO COUNTY  COMMISSION VIOLATED THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

A SPOKESPERSON FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL, RAUL TORREZ, SAYS THE  DEPARTMENT HAS RECEIVED THE COMPLAINT AND HAS BEEN  ASSIGNED FOR REVIEW.

THE REQUEST FOLLOWS A  TURBULENT WEEK FOR BERNALILLO COUNTY.

DURING THE COMMISSION'S PUBLIC MEETING ON APRIL 9, COMMISSION  CHAIR BARBARA BACA INTRODUCED A HIRING COMMITTEE TO SEARCH  FOR THE NEXT COUNTY MANAGER, A ROLE SOON TO BE VACANT THIS  SUMMER.

COMMISSIONERS WALT BENSON AND  STEVEN MICHAEL QUEZADA SPOKE OUT AGAINST THE MEASURE,  SAYING A SEARCH COMMITTEE SHOULD HAVE AN APPOINTED  MEMBER FROM EACH COMMISSIONER.

FRUSTRATED, COMMISSIONER  QUEZADA LEFT THE MEETING EARLY, BEFORE THAT MATTER AND  THE COUNTY'S 350 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET CAME UP FOR A  VOTE.

DAYS LATER NM FOG ASKED THE AG  TO INVESTIGATE AFTER RECEIVING CALLS THAT COMMISSIONERS USED  AN ILLEGAL ROLLING QUORUM.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT  IS, YOU'RE NOT ALONE.

SO IN MY INTERVIEW WITH FOG  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MELANIE MAJORS WE START WITH SOME  DEFINITIONS.

MELANIE, I APPRECIATE YOU  MAKING THE TIME TO CHAT WITH ME ABOUT GOVERNMENT  TRANSPARENCY.

I FIGURE THIS WILL BE A  TELEVISED EXTENSION OF A CONVERSATION YOU AND I  UNFORTUNATELY HAVE HAD FOR TOO MANY YEARS.

SO LET'S START HERE.

WHY IS FOG CONCERNED ABOUT THE  WAY THE BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSION HAS DECIDED TO  CHOOSE ITS NEXT COUNTY MANAGER.

>> Major: YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FOG IS ALWAYS  CONCERNED ABOUT IS OUR MISSION AND OUR MISSION IS TO  ADVOCATE, TO EDUCATE AND TO LITIGATE ON BEHALF OF THE  PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW AND THAT EXTENDS TO THE PUBLIC'S  RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS DOING THROUGH  ITS PUBLIC MEETING AND THROUGH ITS PUBLIC RECORD.

>> Jeff: LET'S DIG DEEPER.

I HAVE READ THAT THIS PHRASE,  AND YOU AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH IT, BUT FOR VIEWERS WHO DON'T  UNDERSTAND, ONE OF THE CONCERNS WITH THIS PROCESS IS  THERE MAY HAVE BEEN WHAT IS CALLED A ROLLING QUORUM.

MELANIE, WHAT IS A ROLLING QUORUM AND WHY DID THE  LEGISLATURE MAKE IT ILLEGAL?

>> Major: ROLLING QUORUM IS  DEFINED AS A QUORUM OF A PUBLIC BODY THAT MEETS OUTSIDE  OF THE ACTUAL BOARD ROOM.

MAYBE THEY HAVE A TELEPHONE  TREE.

MAYBE THEY MEET IN A DIFFERENT  FORMAT.

BUT IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THREE  MEMBERS OF A FIVE-MEMBER BOARD DISCUSS THEIR BUSINESS IN  TELEPHONE CALLS WHERE ONE PERSON WILL CALL AND GET  BUY-IN AND THEN THEY CALL A SECOND AND THEN THEY CALL A  THIRD, THAT IS CALLED A ROLLING QUORUM BECAUSE THEY  HAVE LITERALLY MADE ALL THE DECISIONS AND MADE ALL THE  DISCUSSION PRIVATE.

AND THE PUBLIC HAS NOT BEEN  ALLOWED TO BE A PART OF THAT DISCUSSION.

>> Jeff: IS IT THAT SORT OF PUBLIC INTEREST THAT HAD THE  LEGISLATURE CRAFTING LANGUAGE AROUND ROLLING QUORUMS INTO  THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT?

IS THAT SORT OF THE HEART OF  WHY THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THESE BOARDS AREN'T ALLOWED TO  DO?

>> Major: I THINK THAT IS THE  WHOLE BASES OF NOT ONLY THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT BUT THE OPEN  RECORDS ACT, INSPECTION OF PUBLIC RECORDS, IS THAT IT IS  THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW.

THE PUBLIC PAYS FOR THESE  SERVICES.

THEY PAY SALARIES.

THEY PAY FOR THE OPERATIONS.

THE PUBLIC HAS THE RIGHT TO  KNOW WHAT ITS GOVERNMENT IS DOING AND TO BE OPEN AND  ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT IS THE BASIC BUILDING BLOCK OF  DEMOCRACY.

>> Jeff: GOT YOU.

BEFORE WE GET TO FOG'S COMPLAINT, I WANT TO ADD JUST  A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT HERE.

BERNALILLO COUNTY MANAGER  OVERSEES THE ANNUAL BUDGET OF NEARLY 350 MILLION-DOLLARS,  ONE OF THE 30 LARGEST COUNTY JAILS IN THE NATION AND THE  ONLY GOVERNMENT-RUN MEDICALLY STAFFED DRUG DETOX FACILITY IN  A PLACE WHERE THERE IS ENOUGH DOPE ON THE STREETS TO STUN A  TEAM OF VELOCIRAPTORS.

WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT THAT  THE PUBLIC BE IN THE LOOP WHEN THIS PERSON IS CHOSEN?

>> Major: SO WE HAVE TO ASK THE OTHER QUESTION.

WHY DON'T YOU WANT THE PUBLIC IN THE LOOP WHEN YOU'RE DOING  THIS KIND OF AN APPOINTMENT?

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE  PERSON IS QUALIFIED, THAT THE PERSON HAS THE BACKGROUND, THE  UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS JOB, BUT WE  ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE HIRING PROCESS IS FAIR.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO, MAYBE PEOPLE OF  COLOR, MAYBE DIFFERENT GENDERS, ET CETERA, THAT  EVERYONE IS GIVEN AN EQUAL FOOTING AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY  TO BE CONSIDERED FOR A JOB WHEN THEY ARE QUALIFIED TO  COMPLETE AND DO WELL IN.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I APPRECIATE YOU ADDING THAT LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE COMPLAINT THAT FOG HAS FILED WITH THE  STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU ALL  ALLEGING AND WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM  SO FAR?

>> Major: WE CAME INTO THE  OFFICE LAST WEDNESDAY AND ONE OF THE SERVICES THAT FOG  OFFERS IS A FREE HOTLINE WHERE PEOPLE CAN CALL WITH CONCERNS  THAT THEY HAVE ABOUT HOW THEIR GOVERNMENT IS WORKING, WHETHER  IT IS A MEETING, WHETHER IT IS RECORDS, WHETHER THERE ARE  OTHER QUESTIONS.

WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ADDRESS  SOME OF THOSE ISSUES, BUT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP THEM  FIND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

WHEN WE CAME IN LAST WEDNESDAY, THE HOT LINE  STARTED RINGING OFF THE HOOK.

PEOPLE WERE CALLING AND  ALLEGING THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME MISCONDUCT DONE BY  SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSION.

WE CHECKED THE SOURCES THAT WE HAD, WE LOOKED INTO WHAT WE  THINK IS A ROLLING QUORUM.

WE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT SOME  EVIDENCE FROM A NEWS RELEASE THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED BY  MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION PRIOR TO THE MEETING LAST  WEEK.

AND AT THAT POINT WE SAID, YOU  KNOW, WE NEED TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WEIGH IN AND  SEE IF THIS IS, IN FACT, A ROLLING QUORUM OR IF THIS IS  JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE DISGRUNTLED MAKING NOISE.

>> Jeff: GOT YOU.

WHAT ELSE ARE YOU HOPING TO  LEARN BEYOND WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN PUBLISHED NEWS  ACCOUNTS AND OTHER SOURCES THAT YOU HAVE GOT, AND WHAT  HAVE YOU ALL DONE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW THIS PROCESS  HAS WORKED.

>> Major: WE ACTUALLY ASKED  FOR A SERIES OF EMAILS.

WE FILED A FORMAL INSPECTION  OF PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR EMAILS BETWEEN A CERTAIN TIME  FRAME.

AND WE ASKED THAT THE EMAILS  IF THEY CONTAINED CERTAIN KEY WORDS THAT THOSE EMAILS BE  PROVIDED TO US.

>> Jeff: I WILL BE EXCITED TO  SEE WHAT COMES BACK FROM YOUR IPRA REQUEST, MELONIE.

WHAT DOES FOG HOPE FOR IN TERMS OF PROCESS AND  RESOLUTION FROM HERE.

>> Major: WE HOPE THIS IS A  PROCESS WHERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL LOOKS AT ALL THE  EVIDENCE, NOT ONLY THE EVIDENCE THAT WE MAY BE ABLE  TO FIND, BUT EVIDENCE THAT THEY CAN ALSO FIND.

WE HOPE THAT PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE INFORMATION COME FORWARD  AND TALK ABOUT IT.

AND WE HOPE THAT THE  BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSION, IF THEY ARE FOUND TO HAVE HAD  A ROLLING FORUM, WILL DEFINITELY TAKE THE ATTORNEY  GENERAL'S DETERMINATION AND REMEDY THE SITUATION.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT I HAVE  PERCEIVED AS A BIT OF A FLAW IN THE SYSTEM OR A GHOST IN  THE MACHINE HERE, IF YOU WILL.

LET'S JUST SAY HYPOTHETICALLY  THE AG LOOKS INTO THIS, DETERMINES THERE WAS AN  ILLEGAL ROLLING QUORUM AND ADMONISHES THE BERNALILLO  COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS IN A FINDINGS LETTER.

UNFORTUNATELY THOSE ARE NOT FINDINGS.

THEY DON'T FORCE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO DO  ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

WHAT WOULD THE NEXT STEP BE IF  YOU GOT A DETERMINATION LIKE THAT?

WHAT DOES FOG DO NEXT?

>> Major: THE NEXT STEP IS  ALWAYS TO LOOK AT ALL THE EVIDENCE AND THEN IF NEED BE  TO BE FILE IN COURT.

THAT IS THE FINAL STEP IN THE  REMEDY PROCESS.

THERE IS AN ALLOWANCE FOR  THAT, FOR THE ENFORCEMENT IN THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

WHETHER FOG WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE ACTION ON THAT, WOULD  HAVE TO BE DETERMINED BUT THAT IS A FINAL STEP THAT CAN BE  MADE.

>> Jeff: GOT YOU.

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, IN FOG'S EXPERIENCE, HAVE POSITIVE  FINDINGS LETTERS THAT ARRIVE AT THE SAME DETERMINATION THAT  THE ORGANIZATION HAS, IN THE PAST HAVE THOSE MADE GOOD  PIECES OF EVIDENCE IF YOU DECIDE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO  FILE IN COURT?

>> Major: I ACTUALLY CAN'T  ANSWER THAT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T GONE BACK THROUGH THE RECORDS  TO SEE HOW MANY LAWSUITS WE HAVE FILED CONCERNING OPEN  MEETINGS.

I DO KNOW JUST RECENTLY, WE  HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL  CONCERNING ACTION THAT WAS TAKEN BY THE EASTERN NEW  MEXICO BOARD OF REGENTS AND WE HAD ASKED THAT THEY LOOK INTO  WHAT WE FELT WAS ACTION THAT WAS TAKEN IN A CLOSED MEETING.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL LAUNCHED AN INVESTIGATION, AGREED WITH  WHAT WE HAD THOUGHT HAD OCCURRED AND SENT A LETTER TO  THE REGENTS AT EASTERN NEW MEXICO UNIVERSITY TELLING THEM  THAT THE ACTIONS THEY HAD TAKEN WERE NOT LEGAL AS THEY  WERE NOT DONE IN PUBLIC.

AND DIRECTING THE BOARD OF  REGENTS TO MEET AGAIN AND TAKE UP THE ITEMS ON A NEW AGENDA  IN A NEW MEETING.

>> Jeff: THAT IS A FABULOUS  RESULT AND A BIT OF GOOD NEWS FOR THE SHOW.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THAT.

ONE THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT  IS TIMELINES, MELANIE.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, IT USUALLY  TAKES ABOUT SIX MONTHS TO COMPLETE ONE OF THESE  INVESTIGATIONS.

ALTHOUGH I WILL SAY THAT I  THINK THAT CLOCK HAS SPED UP A LITTLE BIT UNDER ATTORNEY  GENERAL TORREZ.

THAT COULD GET A LITTLE BIT  STICKY HERE.

THE CURRENT COUNTY MANAGER IS  LEAVING AT THE END OF JUNE.

OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD WOULD LIKE  THE NEW PERSON IN BEFORE THEN.

I WONDER, HAVE YOU HAD ANY  INDICATION WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE  ATTORNEY GENERAL, ABOUT TIMELINES HERE?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IT SEEMS LIKE THEY MIGHT  PRIORITIZE.

>> Major: HAVEN'T SEEN  ANYTHING ABOUT HOW QUICKLY THIS WILL BE RESOLVED.

WE DO KNOW SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN ATTORNEY GENERAL BALDERAS  HAD A SIMILAR COMPLAINT ABOUT AN ISSUE IN AN OPEN MEETING  WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO REGENTS, HE REACHED OUT  VERY QUICKLY, DID HIS INVESTIGATION AND DETERMINED  THEY HAD ACTED OUTSIDE OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

AND THEY WERE REQUIRED TO PUT THE ITEM ON THE AGENDA,  DISCUSS IT IN PUBLIC, ET CETERA.

WE KNOW ON THE ISSUE WITH EASTERN NEW MEXICO, THAT  MEETING WAS HELD IN JANUARY.

WE SUBMITTED THAT REQUEST SOON  AFTER THAT MEETING WAS HELD AND WE HEARD ABOUT THAT  REQUEST AT THE FIRST OF APRIL.

SO THERE MAY BE SOME REASONING  FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO MOVE FORWARD ON IT A LITTLE  QUICKER.

WE DON'T KNOW.

>> Jeff: LET'S HOPE FOR A SPEEDY RESOLUTION ON THIS ONE  PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE OF THE POSITION AS  I LAID OUT BEFORE.

MELANIE, I WOULD LIKE TO END  WITH A LITTLE PLUG FOR THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

ITS TWIN TRANSPARENCY LAW, WHICH YOU MENTIONED EARLIER,  THE INSPECTION OF PUBLIC RECORDS ACT, TENDS TO GET ALL  THE HEADLINES, THE FLOWERS, THE LITIGATION, ALL THAT KIND  OF STUFF.

WHY SHOULD PEOPLE CARE JUST AS  MUCH ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT AS WE DO INSPECTION OF  PUBLIC RECORDS?

>> Major: WELL, AGAIN, JEFF,  THESE TWO PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WERE ENACTED  BY THE LEGISLATURE BACK IN 1978, THEY ARE NOT NEW.

THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE.

AND THEY ARE AROUND BECAUSE IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

IF PEOPLE CAN ATTEND A PUBLIC MEETING AND KNOW WHAT IS ON  THE AGENDA AND KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO BE DISCUSSED AND CAN  FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT THEIR COMMISSION IS DOING, WHAT  THEIR CITY COUNCIL IS DOING, WHAT THEIR SCHOOL BOARD IS  DOING, IT GOES A LONG WAY TO FOSTER TRUST IN NOT ONLY THE  PROCESS BUT TRUST IN DEMOCRACY.

IT IS IMPORTANT.

>> Jeff: MELANIE, THANK YOU SO  MUCH FOR THE CHAT AND WE'LL BE KEEPING OUR EYES ON HOW ALL  THIS PLAYS OUT GOING FORWARD.

THANKS FOR COMING.

>> Major: THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING FOG AS A GUEST  TODAY.

>> Jeff: HAPPY TO DO IT.

THANKS AGAIN TO MELANIE FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

NOW, COUNTY COMMISSION CHAIR BARBARA BACA DECLINED TO BE  INTERVIEWED FOR THIS WEEK'S SHOW.

IN AN EMAIL, BACA DECLINED TO COMMENT ON FOG'S COMPLAINT  BECAUSE SHE HASN'T SEEN IT BUT ADDS, QUOTE, I ASSURE YOU THAT  THE SEARCH PROCESS FOR THE COUNTY MANAGER HAS BEEN AND  WILL CONTINUE TO BE AN OPEN, TRANSPARENT AND INCLUSIVE  PROCESS.

END QUOTE.

LET'S CHANGE GEARS TO END THE SHOW.

THIS FALL THE RIO GRANDE CORRIDOR WILL BE PLANTED WITH  THOUSANDS OF MILKWEED PLANTS, THANKS IN PART TO STUDENTS  FROM SANDIA HIGH SCHOOL WHO SET ASIDE THEIR TEXTBOOKS FOR  POTS OF SOIL AND SEEDS.

THE RIVER OF MONARCHS PROJECT  IS MEANT TO HELP RESTORE THE RIO GRANDE HABITAT AND MAKE  THE LAND MORE HOSPITABLE FOR THE MONARCH BUTTERFLY.

[MUSIC PLAYING] >> WE ARE GOING TO PLANT IN  THE GREENHOUSE AND YOU'LL SEE THESE PLANTS HERE IN THE  GREENHOUSE FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

SO THEY WILL GET PLANTED NEXT FALL, AND THAT WILL GIVE THEM  LOTS OF TIMES TO GROW AND GET NICE ROOTS SO WE CAN PUT THEM  OUT IN THE FIELD.

ALL RIGHT, YOU GUYS CAN HEAD  INTO THE GREENHOUSE.

IS ANYONE EXCITED ABOUT MIXING  SOIL AND GETTING REALLY DIRTY?

>> I GOT SO MESSY TODAY.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DIRT BUT IT  WAS FUN, VERY FUN.

>> I LOVE MONARCHS.

I HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN THEM FOREVER.

AND WE ARE HELPING THE MONARCHS BECAUSE THERE IS LOTS  OF INVASIVE SPECIES IN NEW MEXICO THAT ARE INTERFERING  WITH THE MILKWEED TO GROW.

>> THE MONARCHS, CATERPILLARS  CAN ONLY EAT OFF THE MILKWEED.

SO, IT IS CRUCIAL THAT WE  PLANT THIS MILKWEED OUT THERE IN AREAS WHERE THE BUTTERFLIES  WILL BE MIGRATING FROM THE U.S. TO MEXICO.

>> WE NEED TO GET TWO SPECIES OF MILKWEED PLANTED THAT ARE  NATIVE TO NEW MEXICO BY THE RIVER.

THAT WAY THE MONARCHS CAN LAY EGGS AND CATERPILLARS CAN  HATCH AND FEED OFF OF THEM.

>> I SEE THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE  CREATURE THAT IS POLLINATING DIFFERENT PLANTS AND REALLY  HELPING OUR ENVIRONMENT.

I THINK ALL SPECIES ARE  CRUCIAL TO KEEP THE ECOSYSTEM RUNNING BECAUSE IF ONE OF  THOSE SPECIES FALLS DOWN, IT IS A CHAIN REACTION.

AND SO SPECIES AFTER SPECIES, PLANT OR ANIMAL, IS GOING TO  GET AFFECTED.

>> EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED  SOMEHOW IN SOME WAY.

>> IN 2024, THEY ARE GOING TO  PLANT IT BY THE BOSQUE AND, YEAH, WE ARE JUST GOING TO  WAIT FOR THE PLANTS TO GROW IN THE GREENHOUSE.

I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OUR  ENVIRONMENT ISN'T THE BEST, SO PLANTING IN GENERAL IS REALLY  GOOD ESPECIALLY HAVING LIKE A COMMUNITY LIKE A SCHOOL COME  TOGETHER AND PLANT.

IT GETS THE JOB DONE FASTER.

>> WHEN WE WENT OUT TODAY TO PLANT MILKWEEDS, WE HAD  SEVERAL STATIONS WHERE STUDENTS WERE SPLIT UP INTO  DIFFERENT GROUPS.

THE FIRST GROUP WAS PREPARING  THE SOIL TO GET IT READY FOR THE SEEDS.

THEY GOT A WHEELBARROW FULL, THEY WENT TO THE NEXT GROUP  AND WHAT THAT GROUP IS DOING WAS TAKING THE SEED TRAYS THAT  HAVE 98 POTS EACH, AND WE WERE FILLING THOSE WITH SOILS, WE  WERE TAMPING THEM DOWN TO GET THE AIR POCKETS OUT AND  TOPPING THEM OFF.

WHEN THAT WAS FINISHED, WE  WENT TO THE THIRD AND LAST STATION IS WHERE WE BROUGHT  THEM PHYSICALLY INTO THE GREENHOUSE AND THEN THE  STUDENTS WERE TAKING TWO OR THREE MILKWEED SEEDS EACH AND  PUTTING THEM INTO THE POTS VERY CAREFULLY.

>> SO, IF YOU'RE DOING SEEDLINGS, YOU CAN DO THEM  LIKE THIS, PUT THEM ALTOGETHER.

WE DON'T WANT ANYMORE THAN ABOUT AN INCH OF SPACE BETWEEN  THE TOP -- THE TOP OF THE POT AND THE TOP OF THE SOIL AND  THEN JUST COVER THEM UP.

>> SO, THAT IS AN ENTIRE TRAY,  THANK YOU.

>> THAT TOOK A LOT OF TIME AND  THEN, OF COURSE, WATERING THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS.

>> THIS IS ALL NEW TO THEM.

I AM SURE MOST OF THEM HAVE  NOT HAD ANY EXPERIENCE LIKE THIS WHATSOEVER.

SO I THINK WE JUST KIND OF SHOW THEM IT IS JUST DIRT.

YOU DO HAVE TO DO THINGS RIGHT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF A  LITTLE BIT FALLS OUT, IT IS OKAY.

IF ONE SEED FALLS, IT IS OKAY.

IT IS NOT SO SERIOUS THAT THEY  CAN'T CRACK A SMILE OR SOMETHING, LIKE WE ARE  STILL -- IT IS GOING TO WORK OUT.

WE ARE STILL PLANTING THOUSANDS OF MILKWEED.

THERE IS NO DIVORCE BETWEEN HAVING THEM ENJOYING IT AND  DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

>> ONE OF MY GOALS IS TO KIND  OF OPEN THEIR EYES TO THIS, HOW AMAZING A PLACE NEW MEXICO  IS, LIKE ENVIRONMENTALLY SPEAKING, WE HAVE SO MANY  BIOMES THAT MEET RIGHT HERE.

ALBUQUERQUE IS ON ONE OF FIVE  RICH VALLEYS IN THE WORLD.

WE HAVE MORE VOLCANOS THAN  ALMOST ANY OTHER STATE.

IT IS SUCH A GREAT PLACE.

SO, OUR NATURAL AREA OUT HERE IS NOTHING BUT NATIVE SPECIES  AND MONARCHS ARE ONE OF THOSE AND MILKWEEDS ARE ONE OF  THOSE.

BY PROTECTING AND RESTORING  SOME OF THE HABITAT FOR MILKWEED, WE ARE ALSO  INADVERTENTLY PROTECTING IT FOR MANY OTHER SPECIES AND SO  I THINK MAYBE THE IMPORTANCE OF IMPACT HABITAT IS CRUCIAL.

A LOT OF VACANT LOTS ARE GOING TO HAVE A HANDFUL OF  TUMBLEWEEDS, GOAT HEADS, RAGWEEDS, INVASIVE SPECIES.

AND, SO, IF WE ARE OUT THERE ACTIVELY PLANTING SOME OF THE  NATIVE SPECIES IT GETS THEM A QUICK HOLD AND GET THEM  ESTABLISHED AND NATIVES BEGET NATIVES BEGET NATIVES.

AND MILKWEEDS ARE GOING TO HELP THE GOLDENRODS COME IN  AND THE GRAMA GRASS.

IT IS KIND OF LIKE A SNOWBALL  EFFECT, HOPEFULLY, RIGHT.

ONE NATIVE SPECIES PROTECTING  THAT ONE, PROTECTS THIS ONE, BECAUSE THAT IS BACK, THE  THIRD ONE COMES IN AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE THE  PROJECT KIND OF BLOSSOM AND GROW.

FOR ME, IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT BEING PART OF THIS  PROGRAM IS I LIKE TEACHING THE THEORY OF BIOLOGY, STUFF FROM  THE BOOK, BUT, INSTEAD OF JUST LECTURING ON THE STEPS OF  MITOSIS OR THE IMPORTANCE OF KEYSTONE SPECIES, I CAN GO OUT  AND SAY, HERE KIDS, LET'S GO OUT AND WORK WITH THIS AND  MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH THIS.

>> NOT ONLY PLANTING THE SEED  BUT SEEING THE SEED READY TO WAKE UP, WAKING THE SEED UP,  PLANTING THE SEED AND TAKING CARE OF THESE PLANTS FOR  MONTHS AND MONTHS, UNTIL THEY ARE MATURE ENOUGH AND LARGE  ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES IN THE WILD.

WE GET TO GO OUT TO THE WILD.

WE GET TO PLANT THESE IN THESE  COMPROMISED, RIGHT NOW,  ECOSYSTEMS AND WATCH HOW WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS GOING TO HELP  RESTORE THESE HABITATS.

BY DOING SO IT IS GOING TO BE  MORE OF A RESOURCE FOR MONARCHS AND MAYBE OTHER  SPECIES.

AND MY STUDENTS GET TO BE ONE  OF THE STEPS IN THE MANY STEPS IT TAKES TO KIND OF BRING THE  NATIVE NEW MEXICO ECOSYSTEM BACK TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE.

I SAY, HERE KIDS, HERE IS HOW WE HELP AND HERE IS HOW IT IS  GOING TO MAKE POSITIVE IMPACTS AND THIS IS HOW YOU'RE GETTING  TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT.

YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN AND, SO,  I THINK THAT IS -- OBVIOUSLY HOW DO YOU PUT A PRICE ON THAT  FOR STUDENTS.

I THINK THAT IS GREAT.

>> Jeff: THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.