>> I HAD MY BOTTOM ALONG TIME AGO IN THIS COUNTRY.

I'’’M AFRAID OUR BOTTOM IS GOING TO BE SO DEEP THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME CRAWLING OUT.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> THE PRESIDENT'’’S PERSONAL LAWYER, MICHAEL COHEN.

>> WE DECLINE.

D. ♪ ANK YOU.

NOW, IN PRINCIPLE WITH MICHAEL GERSON AND AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: WELCOME TO THE FIRST SHOW OF IN PRINCIPLE WHERE WE THINK DEEPLY ABOUT BIG TOPICS OF OUR TIME AND TALK TO SOME OF THE MOST INTERESTING PEOPLE IN POLITICS AND CULTURE OF OUR DAY.

TODAY, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ECHO CHAMBERS.

THE IDEA THAT BIASES ARE BORN AND REINFORCED WHEN YOU ARE ONLY EXPOSED TO VIEWS YOU ALREADY BELIEVE IN, AND HOW ALL THE SHADE SHOUTING AND NAME-CALLING HAS LED TO A NATION PRACTICALLY RIPPING APART AT THE SEAMS.

AMY: BIG TOPICS AND WE HOPE BIG SOLUTIONS AND IT STARTS BY TALKING, LISTENING AND GETTING OUT OF WASHINGTON.

THAT IS WHY FOR THE FIRST SHOW WE WENT TO DALLAS WHERE WE MET UP WITH CONSERVATIVE TALKSHOW HOST GLENN BECK AT HIS OFFICES.

HE IS KNOWN FOR SOME PRETTY OUTRAGEOUS LANGUAGE, BUT NOW HE HAS A LOT TO SAY ABOUT HEALING A DIVIDED NATION.

MICHAEL: LET ME START BY ASKING WHY IS DISCOURSE SO BROKEN IN AMERICA?

IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE UNREST IN THE COUNTRY, THE CIVILITY GONE OFF THE RAILS, IT IS BECAUSE IT HAS LEAPT OFF OF TELEVISION, LEAPT OUT OF THE POLITICAL ARENA AND WE ARE ALL DOING IT.

AMY: IT IS INTERACTIVE.

GLENN: WE FEEL JUSTIFIED AND IT FEELS GOOD.

WE ARE LITERALLY ADDICTED NOW TO OUTRAGE.

AMY: YOU ALSO HAVE CRITICS WHO HAVE SAID THAT YOU'’’RE PART OF THE REASON WE ARE FOR THE RISE.

GLENN: I TAKE MY SHARE.

AMY: MYMY JOB, I THOUGHT, I HAVE A SKILL WHERE I CAN MAKE POINTS AND GET PEOPLE TO LISTEN ABOUT WOODROW WILSON.

HOW COULD YOU GET PEOPLE TO DO THAT WITHOUT BORING THEM TO DEATH?

ENTERTAINMENT.

I PLAYED A ROLE, YOU PLAYED A ROLE.

SO DID EVERYBODY ELSE THAT NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN.

WHAT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT WORLD WE PLAY AS CITIZENS IN SOCIAL MEDIA.

SOCIAL MEDIA HAS TAKEN THIS AND RENTAMPED IT UP.

AMY: DO YOU FEEL AT ANY MOMENT YOU WERE CRANKING UP THE VOLUME TO GET THAT APPROVAL, THOSE RATINGS?

GLENN: NOT INTENTIONALLY.

CAN I LOOK BACK AND GO, THAT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA?

MICHAEL: HOW HAS POLITICAL MEDIA CHANGED?

GLENN: IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH YOU WANT IT.

IT IS BATTERY ACID TO THE HUMAN SOUL.

IT WILL GET YOU.

IT ALMOST GOT ME.

AMY: IT ALMOST GOT YOU, HOW?

GLENN: I HAD MADE THE DECISION TO LEAVE FOX AND I WAS NOT SURE -- I EVEN MET WITH BILLY GRAHAM AND SPOKE WITH HIM ABOUT IT.

I SAID I'’’M STRUGGLING WITH THIS.

IDEA LIKE I AM IN THE WRONG PLACE.

IF YOU DON'’’T LEAVE NOW, YOU WON'’’T LEAVE WITH YOUR SOUL.

AMY: YOU SAID THAT A VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP -- A PRETTY HOT RHETORIC.

HOW DO YOU DECIDE IT IS APPROPRIATE TO USE THAT LANGUAGE?

GLENN: I DON'’’T KNOW.

I REALLY DON'’’T KNOW.

I DO FOUR HOURS LIVE EVERY DAY, EVERY DAY.

THERE ARE TIMES THAT I AM NOT IN THE MOOD.

AND I SHOULD NOT BE.

AMY: OUR SHOW IS CALLED IN PRINCIPLE.

WHAT ARE PRINCIPLES THAT DIVIDE US?

GLENN: I BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, BUT NOT YOUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH.

JUST THE SPEECH THAT I FIND NOT OFFENSIVE.

YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF, BUT AS LONG AS I APPROVE OF YOU DEFENDING YOURSELF.

WE HAVE FOCUSED ON GOT TO GET THAT GUY, GET THAT GUY, GET HER OUT OF OFFICE.

SHE CANNOT WIN, HE CANNOT WIN.

YOU UNITE UNDER SOMETHING THAT IN THE END EVERYBODY IS GOING WELL, THAT DID NOT FEEL RIGHT.

I THOUGHT I KNEW.

I THOUGHT I KNEW WHAT PEOPLE WERE VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP.

THEY JUST WANTED TO WIN.

WE DON'’’T WIN AT ALL COSTS.

THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

I THOUGHT I KNEW THAT.

I VIOLATED SOMETHING WITH MY AUDIENCE THAT I WOULD NEVER DONE WITH MY FRIENDS.

IF I HAVE REALLY GOOD FRIENDS AND THEY START ACTING IN A WAY THAT VIOLATES THAT I KNOW THEM TO BELIEVE, I DO NOT JUST TELL THEM APART.

I SAY TO THEM WHAT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR LIFE?

WHAT IS HAPPENING?

WHAT'’’S GOING ON AND THEY WILL EVENTUALLY BREAK DOWN AND TELL ME A STORY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THEIR LIFE THAT IS MAKING THEM DIVERT THEIR COURSE.

I DID NOT DO THAT UNTIL A YEAR AFTER THE ELECTION.

I GOT ON THE AIR AND SAID NO ONE ELSE IS ON THE AIR WITH ME, I WILL ONLY TALK TO YOU.

I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TODAY, I JUST WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

WHAT IS HAPPENING?

I HEARD THE PAIN IN THE COUNTRY.

IT IS REAL.

WE HAVEMICHAEL: WE HAVE GAINED TRUST AND LOST TRUST.

WHAT VALUES FOR THE PEOPLE YOU RESPECT HAVE IN COMMON?

WHO DO YOU LOOK FOR PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA AS EXAMPLES?

GLENN: IN THE MEDIA?

I HAVE REALLY STOPPED LOOKING THERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SHED THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST THAT ARE NOT GOOD, BUT I AM NOT GOING TO THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER.

I RESPECT PEOPLE WHO ARE STANDING UP, NOT FOR THEIR RIGHTS -- I GOT IT.

YOU HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES TO STAND UP FOR OTHER PEOPLE'’’S RIGHTS.

WHO ARE WE GOING TO -- WHO IN THE PRESS IS STANDING UP FOR THE PERSON THEY VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE WITH?

MICHAEL: THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION BUILT THIS GREAT SYSTEM BUT THEY ALSO SAID CERTAIN VIRTUES ARE NECESSARY FOR SELF GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO COMPROMISE OR MODERATION OR CIVILITY.

WHERE DO WE GET THOSE VIRTUES NOW?

GLENN: I DON'’’T THINK THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT.

THOSE VIRTUES REQUIRE PAIN.

THEY REQUIRE PAIN.

SELF REFLECTION, YOU KNOW?

WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT VIRTUES ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE.

AMY: WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE ECHO CHAMBER, THE BUBBLE AND POLARIZATION.

HOW MUCH IS WASHINGTON A REFLECTION OF THIS DYNAMIC AND HOW MUCH IS IT DRIVING IT?

GLENN: I HAVE REALLY STOPPED PAYING ATTENTION TO A LOT OF THE STUFF IN WASHINGTON BECAUSE I DON'’’T THINK IT MATTERS.

IT IS A DISTRACTION, IT IS ALL A DISTRACTION.

I KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND THAT IS OUR PRINCIPLES AND OUR VALUES, OUR FAMILIES AND NEIGHBORS, OUR SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THAT.

WE NEED TO HAVE TO START CONVERSATIONS AT A DEEPER LEVEL ABOUT WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES OF TOMORROW AND HOW DO WE GET OUT OF THE WAY AND YET STILL HOLD IT TOGETHER ENOUGH.

THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO AGREE ON PRINCIPLES, PRINCIPLES.

WHAT IS LIFE?

MICHAEL: WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GET THE VISION OF WHAT AMERICA SHOULD AND COULD BE AGAIN?

DOES IT COME FROM THE PAST, THE CONSTITUTION, THE BIBLE?

GLENN: THE CHURCHES ARE COMPROMISING WHAT THEY ALWAYS BELIEVE IN.

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.

NOW, OK, DOES THAT MEAN WE CONDEMN EVERYBODY?

NO.

HE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.

WHAT DID JESUS SAY?

GO AND SIN NO MORE.

IT REQUIRES SOMEONE TO SAY, MAN, I HAVE SCREWED UP MY LIFE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

IF YOU STONE AMEN WHO SAYS I SCREWED UP MY LIFE, I DID THESE THINGS, I LEARNED AND I WANT TOA ATONE FOR THAT AND IT IS A PRIVATE THING, THAT IS GOOD.

BUT YOU DON'’’T EXCUSE THE MAN WHO SAYS WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING I NEED TO BE FORGIVEN FOR.

AMY: DO YOU HAVE ANYONE IN MIND?

GLENN: NO ONE IN MIND.

[LAUGHTER] BOTH SIDES HAVE DONE IT.

BILL CLINTON AND DONALD TRUMP, SAME STORY.

WHY IS IT WRONG THEN AND RIGHT NOW?

WHY WAS IT RIGHT THEN AN WRONG NOW?

I JUST WANT TO GO BACK AND BE DECENT TO EACH OTHER AND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A CHALLENGING CONVERSATION, INTELLECTUALLY BASED, FACT DRIVEN CONVERSATION WHERE WE CAN BOTH WALK AWAY AND GO I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT THAT WAY.

I DON'’’T THINK I AGREE.

MICHAEL: PEOPLE OFTEN NEED TO REACH BOTTOM IN ORDER TO CHANGE.

DO YOU THINK OUR CULTURE AND POLITICS HAVE REACHED BOTTOM YET?

GLENN: MY MOTHER WAS AN ALCOHOLIC AND DRUG ADDICT.

I WAS 15 WHEN SHE COMMITTED SUICIDE AND THAT WAS HER BOTTOM -- DEATH.

MY BROTHER-IN-LAW COMMITTED SUICIDE.

IS BOTTOM WAS THAT.

-- HIS BOTROTOM WAS DEATH I HIT MY BOTTOM ALONG TIME AGO IN THIS CULTURE.

I'’’M WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO FIX IT.

I'’’M AFRAID THAT OUR BOTTOM IS GOING TO BE SO DEEP THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME CRAWLING OUT OF THIS HOLE.

AMY: HOW DID THE REST OF US -- PART OF THE REASON FOR OUR SHOW IS TO LISTEN BETTER.

HOW DO WE LISTEN BETTER?

GLENN: I STARTED TALKING TO SOME PEOPLE AND THEY STARTED SOMETHING CALLED MAKE A AMERICA DINNER AGAIN.

YOU INVITE PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

I HAD A SOCIALIST PROFESSOR, A COMMUNIST.

I HAD A WOMAN, BLACK WOMAN IN THE MEDIA WHO WAS ALL ABOUT MICHELLE OBAMA.

I HAD A TRANSGENDER MAN WHO IS BLACK AND DEEPLY CHRISTIAN.

I HAD A REFUGEE FROM VENEZUELA WHO WAS SO PRO-FREE MARKET YOUR HEAD WOULD EXPLODE.

I HAD EVERYBODY.

WE HAD A 90 MINUTE DINNER AND THE ONLY RULE WAS LET'’’S NOT ARGUE, LET'’’S NOT FIGHT.

LET'’’S JUST LEARN ABOUT EACH OTHER.

WE SPENT PROBABLY 40 MINUTES OVER DINNER JUST TALKING AND STARTING TO HEAR WHERE THAT PERSON WAS COMING FROM, WHERE THEIR LIFE WAS.

CONNECTING ENOUGH THAT THE LAST HALF OF THE DINNER, WE WERE HAVING REALLY GOOD, INTELLECTUAL, CALM CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE I UNDERSTOOD THEM.

MICHAEL: YOU HUMANIZED THEM.

AMY: WHAT DID THEY HAVE IN COMMON THAT ALLOWED THEM TO SIT AT THAT TABLE?

GLENN: EVERYONE IS TIRED OF THIS.

I REALLY TRULY BELIEVE THE ONLY ONES WERE NOT TARGETED ARE THE ONES THAT ARE TRYING TO GET VOTES AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO GET RATINGS.

MICHAEL: A LOT OF THE HEROES OF AMERICA ARE PEOPLE OF UNITY -- MARTIN LUTHER KING, ROSA PARKS.

WHO DO YOU THINK OUR HEROES OF UNITY RIGHT NOW?

GLENN: I BELIEVE COURAGE IS CONTAGIOUS.

IT IS WHY MARTIN LUTHER KING DID NOT MARCH ALONE.

IT TAKES ONE PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE OTHERS WILL SAY I'’’M WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE TOO.

MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO BE FIRST.

AMY: IS IT MORE IMPORTANT FOR LEADERS IN WASHINGTON TO STICK TO THEIR BELIEFS OR COMPROMISE?

54% SAY THEY WANT POLITICAL LEADERS TO COMPROMISE.

18% SAY THEY THINK LEADERS SHOULD STICK TO THEIR PRINCIPLES.

THOSE WHO FAVOR COMPROMISE BY PARTY LINES, 44% REPUBLICANS, 62% DEMOCRATS.

MICHAEL: NEXT, MARJI ROSS, PRESIDENT OF REGNERY PUBLISHING, WHOSE AUTHORS INCLUDE ANNE COULTER AND DONALD TRUMP.

SHE IS ALSO A LEADING VOICE IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

WELCOME AND THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

MARJI: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

MICHAEL: WHAT IS THE DUTY OF CONSERVATIVE PUBLISHING?

MARJI: I THINK IT IS OUR DUTY TO EXPLORE ISSUES OF THE DAY, TO BRING DEBATES TO THE SURFACE, AND TO CHALLENGE OUR READERS TO LOOK AT THE WORLD BASED ON NOT ONLY THEIR CORE VALUES, BUT ALSO NEW INFORMATION, NEW INSIGHTS, AND NEW WAYS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TODAY'’’S HEADLINES.

I THINK CONSERVATIVE BOOK PUBLISHING FILLS THE GAP THAT, AND HELPS BALANCE THE EQUATION TO COUNTERBALANCE THE REALLY LEFT-LEANING BIAS THAT IS FOUND IN A LOT OF OTHER COMMUNICATION, PUBLISHING, OTHER MEDIA.

MICHAEL: DOES THIS KIND OF IDEOLOGICAL SEGREGATION CREATE A PROBLEM?

YOU HAVE CONSERVATIVE PUBLISHING, CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOWS.

DOES THAT CREATE AN ECHO CHAMBER WHERE YOU CANNOT SPEAK ACROSS THESE DIFFERENCES?

MARJI: IT DEFINITELY CREATES AN ECHO CHAMBER OR MULTIPLE ECHO CHAMBERS WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN THEIR OWN BUBBLES.

I THINK THAT IS AS MUCH, MAY BE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, A FUNCTION OF TECHNOLOGY HONESTLY.

I THINK IT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY WAYS TO CURATE OUR OWN SOURCES OF INFORMATION AND TO GET OUR OWN, CREATE OUR OWN BUBBLE, AND ONLY LISTEN TO THE IDEAS AND THE COMMENTARY AND THE VOICES WE AGREE WITH, THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO CREATE A BUBBLE AND LIVE IN A BUBBLE IN A WAY THAT IT WASN'’’T 30 OR 40 YEARS AGO.

MICHAEL: I BENEFITED FROM REGNERY BOOKS OVER THE YEARS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE TITLES THAT SELL WELL, ANNE COULTER, THESE SEEM TO BE MORE PROVIDING AMMUNITION RATHER THAN INFORMATION.

DON'’’T THEY CONTRIBUTE TO A CULTUREAL ATMOSPHERE IN OUR POLITICS?

MARJI: I WOULD PROBABLY TAKE ISSUE WITH YOUR CHARACTER RATION THAT THEY DON'’’T PROVIDE -- CHARACTERIZATION THAT THEY DON'’’T PROVIDE INFORMATION.

I ACTUALLY THINK, PARTICULARLY THOSE EXAMPLES, BOTH ANNE COULT ER'’’S BOOK, MOST RECENT BOOK THAT WE PUBLISHED, AND DANESH'’’S BOOK THAT WE PUBLISH HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT IS NOT PROVIDED OR COVERED ELSEWHERE WHEN PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION.

ANNE DID A GIANT AMOUNT OF RESEARCH AND HAS A HUGE NUMBER OF FOOTNOTES FOR ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND MATERIAL THAT YOU PUT OUT THERE.

AMY: LET ME STOP YOU THERE -- ARE YOU TRYING TO REFLECT SOME OF THIS BRIDGE BUILDING AND YOU TO RESPECT AT REGNERY WHEN YOU ARE PUBLISHING THESE CONSERVATIVE TITLES?

MARJI: I CERTAINLY HOPE SO.

WE TRY TO BE RESPECTFUL TO NOT ATTACK THE PERSON WHO ATTACKED THE MESSAGE OR CRITICIZED THE CONTENT OF THE IDEAS OR THE ASSUMPTIONS ON WHICH THOSE IDEAS REST, AS OPPOSED TO AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON OR EVEN TO HOPEFULLY NOT QUESTION UNFAIRLY THEIR MOTIVATION, WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.

BUT, I THINK THAT IN THE END, BOOK PUBLISHING IS CERTAINLY EDUCATIONAL, BUT IT IS ALSO ENTERTAINMENT.

AMY: TO THAT, AND THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY TO DENIGRATE THESE MEN, WOULD YOU PUBLISH ANTHONY SKERRITTCARMUCCI WHO GAVE THAT VERY PROVOCATIVE INTERVIEW TO THE NEW YORKER?

MARJI: PROBABLY NOT, BUT NOT BECAUSE HE WAS TOO PROVOCATIVE.

SIMPLY BECAUSE I DON'’’T BELIEVE IN HIS THREE MINUTES OF FAME.

I'’’M NOT CONVINCED THAT OUR PMARKET IS ALL THAT INTERESTED IN WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.

AMY: LET ME FOLLOW UP WITH ANOTHER PERSON.

THE PRESIDENT'’’S PERSONAL LAWYER, MICHAEL COHEN.

MARJI: WE DECLINED TO PUBLISH -- HE WAS SHOPPING A BOOK AND WE DECLINED TO MAKE AN OFFER.

AMY: WHY?

MARJI: JUST AS MUCH A BUSINESS DECISION AS ANYTHING ELSE.

AMY: NOT A BIG ENOUGH NAME?

THE ASSOCIATION WITH DONALD TRUMP WOULD SELL YOU BOOKS.

MARJI: POSSIBLY, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF INSIDER TRUMP BOOKS.

AMY: REPORTEDLY, MR. COHEN WAS GOING TO DISH A LOT OF INSIDER INFORMATION ABOUT A VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP.

DON'’’T YOU THINK READERS WOULD BE INTERESTED?

MARJI: I THINK THEY WOULD VERY WELL BE INTERESTED.

THAT ARE PLENTY OF BOOKS WE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT WE DECIDE ARE NOT RIGHT FOR US.

AMY: HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?

MARJI: IT IS REALLY HARD.

IT IS AN ART AND SCIENCE.

MICHAEL: WHAT IS YOUR GUT CHECK ON THESE THINGS?

WHEN DOES IT GO TOO FAR?

MARJI: I THINK IT GOES TOO FAR -- IT CERTAINLY GOES TOO FAR IF YOU ARE TRYING TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT YOU DON'’’T THINK IT IS TRUE OR DON'’’T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE FOR BEING TRUE.

THAT IS GOING TO FAR.

TO ME, THAT IS A LACK OF INTEGRITY IN PUBLISHING.

AMY: HAS THE AGE OF TRUMP -- TRUMP HAS CHANGE CONSERVATISM, HAS HE ALSO CHANGED PUBLISHING AND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT?

MARJI: I HAVE SAID TO ANOTHER PERSON WHO ASKED ME THIS QUESTION THAT IN A LOT OF WAYS, I THINK TRUMP IS NOT THE CAUSE, HE IS THE EFFECT.

WE DECIDE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO PUBLISH BY WHAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN IN LEARNING ABOUT AND TALKING ABOUT.

JUST SO, OF COURSE, TRUMP IS A REFLECTION OF THAT AS WELL.

SO, AS IMMIGRATION HAS BECOME A HUGE ISSUE, SOMETHING REALLY BOTH COMPLICATED AND PASSIONATELY FELT FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS, THAT IS AN ISSUED THAT WAS A BIG PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN.

THAT IS ALSO AN ISSUE WE ARE PUBLISHING INTO.

NOT BECAUSE OF TRUMP, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SAME REASONS IT BECAME IMPORTANT TO TRUMP.

MICHAEL: IT USED TO BE THERE WERE SOME CLEAR THINGS THAT UNITED.

THE COLD WAR, FAMILY VALUES.

IT DOES NOT SEEM AS OBVIOUS TO ME ANYMORE.

WHAT UNITES CONSERVATIVES OF RIGHT NOW?

MARJI: THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT UNITE CONSERVATISM THAT ARE TIMELESS AND THAT ARE STILL TRUE TODAY AS THEY HAVE BEEN SINCE THE TIME OF WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY AND RONALD REAGAN.

THOSE THINGS ARE THE VALUE OF LIBERTY OVER SAFETY.

THE VALUE OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OVER EGO.

COMMUNITY SECURITY.

THE VALUE OF THINKING MORE ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BY PROVIDING OPPORTUNITY THAN THE GOVERNMENT COMING IN TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYONE.

AND BY DOING SO, UNDERMINING THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

I THINK THE MOST DANGEROUS THING FOR US IN SOCIETY AND THE MOST DANGEROUS THREAT I SEE ON THE LANDSCAPE IS SHUTTING DOWN FREE SPEECH.

IT IS NOT BEING WILLING TO LISTEN TO IDEAS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH, THAT YOU THINK ARE WRONG, BECAUSE I THINK ALL OF US, ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT ALL OF US LOSE THE ABILITY TO SHARPEN OUR OWN ARGUMENTS TO EVEN UNDERSTAND WHY WE BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE IF WE DON'’’T HEAR FROM PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

MICHAEL: DO YOU THINK IT IS GETTING WORSE WHEN IT COMES TO FREE SPEECH FOR CONSERVATIVES IN ELITE ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS, DIFFERENT WORLDS?

AMY: SOCIAL MEDIA.

MARJI: I THINK IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT WORSE.

I SERVE ON THE BOARD OF POLICY INSTITUTE.WE ARE AN ORGANIZATION THAT HELPS MENTOR CONSERVATIVE WHENOMEN.

THAT IS SOMETHING NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART BECAUSE I BELIEVE CONSERVATIVE WOMEN IN COLLEGE -- I KNOW FOR A FACT BECAUSE I HAVE TALKED TO HUNDREDS OF THEM -- THEY ARE SHUT DOWN WHEN THEY TRY TO EXPRESS AN AN OPINION AS A YOUNG WOMAN THAT IS NOT THE LEFT-WING NARRATIVE FOR WOMEN.

IF THEY EXPRESS AN OPINION THAT IS PRO-LIFE, IF THEY EXPRESS AN OPINION THAT IS PRO-TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE, EVEN JUST PRO-MARRIAGE.

IF THEY EXPRESS AN OPINION THAT THEY MAY WANT TO BE A HOMEMAKER AS OPPOSED TO PURSUE A CAREER, THEY ARE ATTACKED AS BEING IGNORANT AND BEING ANTI-WOMAN.

I THINK THAT IS REPREHENSIBLE AND I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY, VERY BRAVE YOUNG WOMEN ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES THAT ARE TRYING TO PRESENT ANOTHER VERSION OF WHAT A YOUNG, STRONG WOMAN CAN BE THAT IS MORE IN LINE WITH THE CONSERVATIVE SET OF IDEALS.

AMY: YOU ALLSO TALKED ABOUT THERE IS A PROBLEM ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE WHEN IT COMES TO TREATMENT AND ATTITUDES TOWARDS WOMEN.

AT CPAC, THE CONSERVATIVE CONFERENCE EVERY YEAR, YOU MENTIONED THIS AND YOU GOT BOOED.

MY QUESTION IS DO CONSERVATIVES HAVE THEIR OWN BLIND SPOTS?

MARJI: WE ALL HAVE BLIND SPOTS, THAT IS CERTAINLY TRUE.

THE CONFERENCE AND THE SESSION YOU MENTIONED WAS A GROUP OF WOMEN GOT TOGETHER AND I WAS THE MODERATOR FOR A SESSION ON HOW CONSERVATIVE WOMEN RESPOND TO THE #METOO, ISSUES AND SCANDALS THAT ARE OUT THERE, AND THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT THAT HAS EXPLODED ONTO THE SCENE.

OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS HAPPENING, BUT THE PEOPLE WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT.

SO, ONE OF THE PANELISTS SAID VERY FAMOUSLY I THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS AS WELL.

A SERIES OF BOOS ERUPTED.

I THINK SHE WAS BOOED BECAUSE IT WAS PERCEIVED THAT SHE WAS ACTUALLY ACCUSING DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF BEING A SEXUAL HARASSER.

THAT WAS COMPLETELY NOT, I DON'’’T THINK WHAT SHE INTENDED AND CERTAINLY WAS NOT THE TOPIC I HAD HOPED WE WOULD DISCUSS.

I THINK THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM TO TALK ABOUT REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES HAVING BLIND SPOTS, AND I THINK THAT IS A HEALTHY CONVERSATION BECAUSE IT CAN SHRINK THAN ALL OF US -- IT CAN STRENGTHEN ALL OF US.

WHEN YOU GIVE A SPEECH AND GET A REACTION, YOU KNOW YOU HIT A NERVE.

MICHAEL: HOW DO WE LISTEN BETTER BEYOND THOSE DIVISIONS YOU JUST DESCRIBED?

MARJI: I DO THINK WE NEED TO LISTEN BETTER.

IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT JOB OF THE PUBLISHER TO LISTEN TO NOT JUST MY AUTHORS, NOT EVEN JUST MY EXISTING READERS AND CUSTOMERS, BUT FUTURE READERS, POTENTIAL READERS, PEOPLE WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO REACH YET.

PEOPLE ASK ME HOW DO YOU GET YOUR KIDS TO LOVE TO READ?

MY ANSWER IS YOU READ.

YOU READ IN FRONT OF THEM.

YOU SHOW THEM THAT READING IS A FUN, WONDERFUL ADVENTURE.

SIMILARLY, YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH LISTENING.

AMY: WE HAVE TO END IT THERE, LET THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS INAUGURAL EDITION OF IN PRINCIPLE.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR FIRST SHOW OF IN PRINCIPLE.

DON'’’T FORGET TO CHECK OUT MORE IN PRINCIPLE ONLINE OR FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, I'’’M AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: I'’’M MICHAEL GERSON.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] THANK YOU.