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♪ David: "Chat Box," I am David Cruz.

the continued rhetoric that has rattled communities here at home and allies abroad, we have reaction from both sides of the aisle with Bob Pugh again joining us later -- Bob joining us later, but we begin with the Princeton professor, author and commentator who joins us now.

Professor, welcome back.

Professor: Always a pleasure to be in dialogue with you.

David: You are few days removed from the speech.

What is lingering for you as you look back at it?

Professor: I'm not surprised.

I knew it was going to be somewhat of kind of campaign rally and I knew he would reach for the greatest hits, as it were, his belligerence was not a surprise to me.

There were some moments over the 100 minutes or so, the claim or the call for a new crime bill, my attention.

The desire to undo the chips act also came into view, the way in which he was throwing red meat to his base around transgender athletes and immigration, all of that was the milieu, but the way he did it, the belligerent nature of the speech is something like I've never seen before in a joint session with the president.

David: You mentioned the contradictions about that ship act, for instance, which I think most Republicans voted for.

I mean, he talked about restoring free speech, equal rights, while literally doing the opposite and getting applause.

Prof. Glaude: You know, when we look for coherence out of Donald Trump's mouth, we are actually being delusional.

There is the moment where he said he would balance the budget, and then of course urged Congress to pass tax cuts, and you kind of said, well, how are you going to do that?

So there is a way in which we should not try to attribute to Donald Trump a kind of rational approach to policymaking beyond a certain claim of breaking federal government and lining the pockets of oligarchs.

Beyond that, it is really how do we stoke the grievance and hatred that is ablaze in the country right now?

David: I was talking with someone who lamented the fact that he was an opportunity for a president to be presidential given the tenure of our politics right now.

No attempt really at that at all, right?

Prof. Glaude: I'm tired of that expectation of Donald Trump, and it seems to me an expectation that involves an application of responsibility prayed what do I mean by that?

-- responsibility.

What do I mean by that?

When you expect this man to be presidential at any moment, then you really don't expect him to be a threat as such.

You are constantly waiting for him took fit into the mold of traditional American politics, and then you can respond accordingly.

Well, I think that desire, that illusion in fantasy is actually complicit in the hill that we are catching in the nation.

Let me put it differently, if he is an existential threat to democracy, the neck like it.

Orient yourself accordingly, it seems to me, and stop waiting for him to be presidential.

This is who Donald Trump is.

David: You said the other day that we are relitigating the social revolutions of the 20th century, Black liberation, women's and LGBTQ rights, the narrative is being controlled by one side in this re-litigation, no?

Prof. Glaude: Absolutely.

They are ripping apart the infrastructure of the social revolution of the mid-20th century, and Democrats are so feckless and scared right now to be labeled with identity politics, to be labeled with D.E.I.

that they don't want to embrace what I take to be one of the most extraordinary legislative moments in the history of the U.S., that is 64 and 65.

I'm not a huge fan, as a colleague of mine said, of Lyndon Baines Johnson, but we need to acknowledge of what he achieved and acknowledged underlying values that in so many ways informed the mid-20th century revolutions, and these folk are holding positions in exact opposition to those values.

Why not embrace not them but the values themselves?

Why not put forward a more positive vision of the country we would like as opposed to reading and reacting to what Donald Trump and his minions are doing.

David: You call this an imperial presidency on steroids.

Hasn't that always been the case?

Great power in the presidency in our country, but never someone who so aggressively used it as a weapon.

Prof. Glaude: We could tell a history of outsize and executive power, people complained in the way President Lincoln conducted the war in so many ways and engaged in constitutional overreach.

We know that President Richard Nixon had a consumption of unitary executive power and produce all of these folk who embraced him, Dick Cheney, Bill Barr, Dick Cheney student in so many ways, and a lot of those folks surround Donald Trump in the first administration.

So in this more contemporary or modern context, this idea of unitary executive reaches back to the Nixon era in which executive power in some ways overshadows the other two branches.

Now, what happens when you have someone who believes in a unitary executive power but that person is not beholden to norms, basic norms that in some ways are at the heart, and you may think of them as the kind of oil that allows the engine of democracy to work, so if you give someone this kind of power, who is not committed to basic democratic norms, then what do you get?

You get this spoils system returning, you get someone who fires folk with impunity, someone who encroaches upon the authority of Congress with no regard whatsoever, someone who actually thinks they have power, and I think that's the difference between the way in which Donald Trump inhabits an imperial executive and the way Barack Obama inhabited it.

David: Meanwhile, Democrats, you called the response feckless.

I used the word limp.

What can they do?

I mean, to watch the Democrats holding up their signs, it seemed so impotent.

Prof. Glaude: To be -- I think they need to be truthful with themselves.

For a long time, and this will sound a bit harsh, but I think it is true, the Democratic Party has put identity politics on a neoliberal peg.

They have been committed to a certain economic philosophy that has contributed to the evisceration of any notion of the public good, and part of what I think the Democratic Party has to be clear on is what it stands for.

There is a reason why we are committed to Social Security and Medicaid.

There is a reason why we believe that government plays a role in exercising and executing responsibilities and obligations to one another, instead of responding in a way or reacting to just simply what Donald Trump is doing, I think they need to get up their heels and get on their toes, and what I mean by that, they need to begin to become much more aggressive in putting forward their vision for the nation, but for some reason, decorum, civility, and at this moment?

If it is an existential threat, it is an existential threat, you don't bring civility and rationale to a fistfight.

David: How about that spectacle in the White House with Trump and dance and -- and JD Vance and Zelenskyy, no stopping military aid and intelligence sharing.

What is the message customer I guess there is a clear and internationally, and are Republicans right that the hardline has gotten results?

We have seen the EU talking about a massive increase in military spending, which could all be moot when Trump sides with Putin ultimately.

Prof. Glaude: I think Republicans are constantly gas lighting the American people.

They were not expecting this outcome in this way and there is a reason why Europe decided to double down on its own defense because they know that America is not trustworthy, not just Trump, America is not trustworthy because Americans have elected him twice.

So we simply need to concede that pox Americana, from post-World War II to now is over.

It is done, and we need to understand that for much of the world, it was not peaceful.

I mean, I would like to say that the decline of America's global power will destabilize the world, but we need to also understand what has been happening over this time of peace in terms of the U.S. as a superpower, but, you know, it is certainly the case that America cannot even pretend now, at least with Donald Trump at the helm, he cannot even pretend to be a defender of democracy, not anymore.

David: There are two schools of thought on how to deal with the president.

One side says there is to get up and stand up, and the other side, which a lot of Democrats seem to be taking is engaging in transactional is him with him -- transactionalism with him, even our governor in New Jersey, that's not a way forward for Democrats, is it?

Prof. Glaude: I don't think so.

Democrats have been in this kind of fatal relationship of trying to lure back the forgotten American, the Reagan Democrat for the longest, and since we were young teenagers, I suspect, and, so, this approach that you have to speak to the white working-class in a way that compels them to vote, this is the approach to stand mute in the face of this assault on democracy as such because you are going to blink and we will not have it, it seems to me.

You know, I think at the end of the day, Democrats are going to have to own up to their responsibility for producing the soil that generated all of this nonsense, and I think that is a hard pill to swallow, to mix my metaphors, but unless the Democratic Party is honest with itself, it will not generate the kind of response requisite for the moment.

David: It is the new not normal.

Always good to talk to you.

Thank you.

Prof. Glaude: It is a pleasure, take care of yourself.

David: Meanwhile, Republicans are basking in the glow of a president who has Democrats back on their heels, well the GOP harbors ambitions of slipping New Jersey.

That spring and the chairman of the state Republican Party, Chairman, welcome back to the show.

Good to see you.

Chairman: David, get to be with you.

David: Thoughts on the president's address this week?

Chairman: I think he is quite a character.

He knows how to deliver a speech , and Lady nontraditional state of the Union speech, but he told people what he was going to do, and he's done a lot of it already.

He's a man of action.

That is for sure.

David: Some Democrats and others say the president missed an opportunity to be presidential.

Do you agree with that?

And would you call that speech presidential?

Chair Hugin: I think what I did read, 76% of the people who watched the speech thought it was spectacular, not just good but great.

So for the people watching, the rating was quite high and for whatever other people who are more objective or whatever, I don't know what it is, but he delivered the message he had to deliver per he will do things, get it done and he's a man of action.

David: He is certainly the president, but was he presidential was the question?

Chair Hugin: Yeah, I think he speaks to the working-class person of America.

People pay taxes in the country, and they would like to hear that the board is secure, you look at the progress they have made there.

He has got to be more affordable.

We have to stop government spending.

We cannot afford to trillion dollar deficits like we are having, so he speaks to the percentage of the people, which is mainstream America, and I think from that, that is his mission and he's delivering on it.

He may not speak to the elite of the society that some of us who are in the political intelligentsia, it is the working-class people he speaks to.

David: Most fact checkers found a lot of BS and some of the claims he made, but that kind of goes towards his goal, which is to just kind of throw facts out there that sound great to his face.

Chair Hugin: I think he exaggerates some things, but we know what the spirit of it is and what his goal is to negotiating, so I think some of these eighth-grade fact checkers should go back to being an eighth grade math teacher.

The reality of what Americans would like to talk about.

David: That is convenient when the facts are not on your side.

Facts are facts.

Chair Hugin: Listen, I am a person who looks at data and facts every day, but when you would like to be a negotiator, you have to push it points and make the point you think are most important, and he is a good salesman for his agenda.

In this market when you have so many people fighting against you, you have to fight hard for your objectives.

Again, I don't agree with everything the way he does things, but all in all, he is done helping people in America who need help the most.

David: If you are a Democrat or anyone who did not vote for the president, what should you take away from Tuesday's address.

Chair Hugin: What strikes me about it, when President Obama won the election in 2008, I did not vote for him, and I gave him a honeymoon, I sent should support the president for some time because elections have consequences, and when you win the popular vote and the electoral college, you are supposed to get behind the president and put America first, and I see so few people who did not vote for him willing to do that, which is discouraging to me because if a Democrat is elected president or some day -- president someday, I hope Republicans give the person a chance to be successful.

If you saw how embarrassing the Democrats were at that congressional speech another night, it was ridiculous, the stupid dress, the color, the signs, it was like childish and showed they have no concern about the American people, they are not working for the American people, they don't agree with the things they should be, and there not fighting on principles.

So for a long time I was worried about being Republican.

I'm glad I'm not a Democrat today.

David: The price of eggs, chairman.

This president said he would bring down the price of staples like that on day one.

Nary a mention of them in his speech.

It would be unreasonable to expect that diversity of an administration that suddenly eggs are not going to be nine dollars a dozen, but at least a mention in the speech, he really did not mention that at all.

Chair Hugin: Well, I mean, obviously, over time, he is going to be the judge of those things.

He said he will secure the border.

He is going to get rid of violent criminals and get them deported.

He said he will work on growing the economy, getting things under control, getting inflation down, doing those things, and he will be judged on them.

He has got to deliver on that promise.

I think we are going to see fuel prices lower with more competition, and we are going to see a lot of competition on the field, deregulation, bringing more people into the marketplace, but any politician makes promises, but what he will do, whether it is secure the border, work on inflation, if you don't deliver, the American people say you failed, and I totally agree, it is totally fair to say these are the things you run on, this is how you should be judged.

So far, and the short time he has had, I have to give him generally pretty good marks.

He is producing things, and the point I would like to make, and hopefully your viewers will really appreciate, the United States government has grown too big.

I don't know if anybody really out there disagrees with that.

One of the things we have to accomplish is not just making the government more efficient, but, well, we have to change the culture, but when you think about the government, how bad the government has been about adopting technology, part of their strategy is to reduce the headcount, keep the pressure on the budgets, almost force these agencies to integrate in a more rapid way with preservation of technologies that are coming out all the time for society to use, and not having worked in the government, but just how long it took them to get word processors into the government, the basic technologies to make things more efficient.

It took six to nine months to change a manufacturing plant because 250,000 pages of documents had to be read by human beings.

That transformation should be a week or two at the most, and if you have computers do the work and summarize it, I think we ought to make sure we support the administration to rapidly integrate the transformational technology, it makes the government editor, a more efficient and cheaper to do, and do the people's work.

David: How about the White House meeting with Trump and JD Vance and Zelenskyy?

We have turned away from Ukraine in a big way, are we not allies?

Chair Hugin: I have to tell you, I have to think a lot of the things were not accurately reported.

I historically have been a big fan of Zelenskyy's, and I admire the guy standing up, Ukrainians are fighting the Russians, we are not fighting them.

I'm not a fan of Vladimir Putin.

He's a tyrant and dictator, no doubt about it.

I think Zelenskyy made serious mistakes, telling people in Washington, including the president and vice president, that he would do certain things, and he goes back to Ukraine, and then in Twitter and on telecast and newscast says the exact opposite things, not thinking that is disrespectful.

David: This is from a president who puts up a tariff one day and then the next day, he changes his mind.

I mean, that is the pot calling the kettle black.

Chair Hugin: When you have difference of opinions, it is going to come down to the end, is there going to be a rare earth minerals deal?

Are we going to have a Cease Fire is stop letting people being killed in Ukraine?

Those are the goals that have to occur.

Again, it is always very difficult to judge someone when we are not on the inside.

I assure you that I would do things differently, you would do things differently, but in the end, it comes down to the end, do we have a rare earth minerals deal?

Do we have a Cease Fire and the war?

-- and a peaceful end to the war?

You better deliver results.

Otherwise, you will become a size for them.

I'm optimistic that we will get a real deal on rare earth minerals.

The Chinese are kicking are butt in it, and we will help stop the fighting in the Mideast and especially Ukraine and Russia.

David: That is a lot to expect to deliver on.

We just spoke with a Princeton professor, he called the president an existential threat.

I assume you don't leave years.

Doesn't he have a responsibility to try to bring people together?

Chair Hugin: Yes.

I certainly think that.

I think people live in these little bubbles and don't get out in the real world.

The president a few months ago, and he's only been in office five or six weeks, whatever it is, he won the popular vote.

He is the president of the United States, existential threat?

These people need to get a grip on reality.

It was the Democrats who politicize the impeachment activities that led to this polarization or accelerated the polarization that we have had.

This is a dirty business that people have been in, and there's not one person who's bad or good.

We need to fix this and have more people focused on it.

I think it starts in New Jersey, where we are working hard to make sure we elect a Republican governor this year to move the state in the right direction, as we hope the country will move in the right direction.

David: I would like to talk about your leadership summit.

You think the president is a net plus for a Republican gubernatorial candidate?

Chair Hugin: Absolutely.

David: In general.

Chair Hugin: In general, he definitely is a positive.

He is going to come to New Jersey.

I'm confident this year.

He has a residence here in New Jersey, but he will do other things.

David: Let me get to your summit.

Are you just going to be toasting Trump or will there be some strategy and stuff like that?

Chair Hugin: Well, we would love you to come to the summit.

We've done this for a number of years.

It is very much not just a party kind of thing, it is an educational training we do.

Regular grassroot volunteer training, candidate and issue training, forms to lead assembly candidates.

Really, it is a working session Friday and Saturday.

With the opportunity to meet with national leaders, and we have a candidate running for governor of Ohio now, and also helping get more technology in the government and government efficiency being a critical experience that he has, a young voice that is out there that we need to hear from.

We have other speakers on Saturday, it is going to be educational, informative, and we will have fun in Atlantic City.

David: Bob Hugin's chairman of the state Republican Party, good to see you.

Thank you.

Chair Hugin: Thank you, David.

David: That is "Chat Box" this week, thank you to Professor Goude for joining -- Gloude for joining us.

I am David Cruz.

for all the crew here, too for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by Insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey's political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players an interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at insiderNJ.com.

♪