[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - Recently, I had a chance to speak with David Wildstein, the Editor of "New Jersey Globe", about the ""party line."

When we talked about it, the federal judge had not declared the party line for the Democrats unconstitutional.

But since that interview, that's exactly what happened.

Party line is for the Democrats in New Jersey declared unconstitutional.

What happens to party organizations and the line and ballots moving forward?

Let's check out this conversation with David Wildstein.

We're now joined by David Wildstein, who's the Editor of NJ Globe, "New Jersey Globe".

Check out their website, doing important stuff every day.

David, good to see you.

- Good to see you, Steve, thanks for having me.

- Hey, listen, this isn't a fun topic, but it's an important topic.

Listen, we're taping at the end of March, 2024, there'll be a race for the US Senate, the Democratic and Republican nominations.

We'll see what happens on June 4th.

This isn't about that situation, but that situation has brought up the question of the "party line."

What the heck is the party line?

Why is it so significant/dangerous, and why is New Jersey the only state in the nation that has a party line to begin with?

- Well, I'm old, I've been doing this for a long time, and I don't remember life without a party line.

It's the only thing I've ever seen.

It's like you say, unique to New Jersey.

- What is it?

- It gives a preferential ballot position to candidates that have the endorsement of a county political party, and that allows names to be listed on the ballot ahead of others, in certain circumstances.

It makes name easier to find.

It links recognizable names on a ballot with unrecognizable names.

So if you're a new candidate, and you're in a tough race, and a lot of people don't know who you are, you benefit by the coattails of other people on the ballot.

whether it's Joe Biden this year, whether it was Cory Booker a couple years ago, you get a benefit of being in that same column with names that voters recognize and trust.

- David, let's do this.

Usame is our Executive Producer of Post-production.

Usame, can you put up the graphic that David provided us?

Okay, do us a favor, talk us through, David Wildstein.

Who's on the line?

- So you see column A, it was a drawing.

That's the organization column.

Some counties, remember in New Jersey, if you've seen one county, you've seen one county, so you have 21 different county clerks designing their ballots differently.

- [Steve] Is this in 2020?

- This is 2020 - Go ahead.

- Mercer County, there was a convention, and two of the candidates received 40% of the votes, so they get to run on the line.

That's Christine Conforti and Stephanie Schmid Schmid was actually the top vote getter, she got to use that same slogan, so if you look at it and you see, Biden slogan, Booker slogan, Schmid, you've got one candidate there, but then, in the next column you have another guy, David Applefield, he didn't hit that mark at the convention, he's off to the side.

Mercer is the only county in New Jersey that will put more than one candidate for the same office in their column if they hit a benchmark at their convention.

- Hold on.

So-called Ballot Siberia, meaning it's very hard to find a candidate.

P.S., Just so everybody understands this, we don't know who's gonna win the race for the Democratic nomination in the US Senate, not the issue here, but Andy Kim, the congressman who doesn't have the party endorsement in a whole range of prominent democratically controlled and influenced counties, if you will, the first lady, Tammy Murphy, does.

What Kim is saying is he could be in Ballot Siberia.

Is that what we're looking at right now, David?

Yeah, - So if you're looking at Cumberland County Democratic Primary, 2020, and this was the race for Jeff Andrew's seat right after he switched parties.

A lot of Democrats wanted to run for Congress.

Bridget Callahan Harrison was the organization candidate, line in Cumberland County.

So she ran with Biden and Cory Booker and the organization candidates for, in those days, still called Freeholders.

Then they do a drawing Bernie Sanders is running for President, He gets column B, he's in the next column.

And Larry Ham running for US Senate bracketed with Sanders.

- Who are these people over to the right?

So these are Will Cunningham, Bob Turkavage, John Francis, Amy Kennedy.

These are the ones that were also running for Congress but they're all the way over on the other side.

And then you look under Kennedy and see Jack Surrency and Donna Pearson running for freeholder.

They were on a line bracketed with Amy Kennedy.

And you've got a candidate for a local position.

LaRue Smith down at the bottom, you barely can even see her.

So what Ballot Siberia means is a huge amount of white space like snow in Siberia, a huge amount of white space that separates the organization candidates from the others.

- David, why the heck is New Jersey the only state in the nation that does this?

- I guess another way of asking it, Steve, is why don't the other 49 states do this?

It's not for me to say that it's right or wrong.

- Well, hold on, David, you know the answer to that.

The answer is most other states, - New voices.

- Well put it this way, and David knows I understand this from a certain perspective.

I'm from Essex County.

My dad who passed away three and a half years ago, David knew very well early on in his career, ran against the party bosses, ran quote off the line.

Then when he became more powerful, he was with the party line.

Translation, I understand this.

However, the question is this, what about if I said, David, devil's advocate, other states realize that it's unfair, some would argue undemocratic, and it makes it almost impossible, virtually impossible for a candidate who doesn't have the organization support to win off, off, off the line in Ballot Siberia and the people who do get elected are so beholden to the party bosses who gave them the line that they're really not voting on their own.

Is that a oversimplification of New Jersey politics, David?

- I don't think it's an oversimplification.

I think that there's a lot of asterisks there, take it for your second part first.

Does it make candidates beholden to the organization?

Absolutely.

Absolutely, positively, no doubt that better ballot position keeping somebody in office makes them beholden.

You and I have both seen countless people dumped from the line, denied organization support because they weren't voting or behaving in the way that people would like them to, - But okay, and also, isn't it true Andy Kim argues it, and again, this could be seen after the primary doesn't change anything.

Andy Kim argues that many of those party officials who jumped on the bandwagon for Tammy Murphy, and she was given the line in Essex County and Passaic County and Middlesex County and Camden County, I think, Bergen as well, because they didn't want to anger their party bosses or "they didn't want to anger the governor," that's the argument that Andy Kim makes.

And so that he's put in a ridiculously unfair position.

And Tammy Murphy has an absurd advantage.

Is that just politics in New Jersey, David?

- Well, it's partly politics in New Jersey, but it's also, not all of those counties had the same process.

Bergen had a secret ballot.

Tammy Murphy had the support of the party leadership, but county committee, and you and I probably could spend a half hour explaining what county committee are, but they are the lowest rung of political (inaudible) in New Jersey.

They are elected by people literally in own neighborhood to represent members of the party in that district.

They all voted in Bergen County and Tammy Murphy won, and it's a secret ballot.

- But that's the exception, David.

Respectfully, that's the exception, that in other secret ballot situations, and again, I don't wanna do the horse race thing, but Andy Kim's argument is that when you force people to vote publicly, and I was a county committee member at 18 years of age, quote off the line in my neighborhood in Newark, New Jersey, where we grew up - And I hear the point, (indistinct) off the line too.

And one was 68% of the vote because there's nobody who can't win a county committee seat in their own neighborhood if they work hard enough, regardless whether (audio warble).

- Agreed, but here's the thing, Andy Kim argues that a secret ballot in most cases allows people to vote their conscience by having to stand up and raise your hand or say who you're gonna vote for.

Many of those people, Andy Kim argues, have contracts and jobs and are connected to the party bosses and are afraid of pissing them off.

And so they did what they were expected to do.

Oversimplification again, - He's not completely wrong, he's not completely right.

But he's got some- - Also Andy Kim had the party endorsement in the line when he ran for the House of Representatives several times.

But go ahead.

- You and I both got the benefit of running on a line too.

- Right.

(Laughs) - Past life that neither of us really wants to talk much about but this is the system and maybe the system is broken.

I think there's a lot that they can do better.

I think some places do democracy better than others and sometimes it just doesn't work.

I’ll tell you- - Real quick, David, I'm gonna do this.

We'll do another segment 'cause we're running out time.

Yeah, I promise we'll do another segment 'cause it's not going away.

Yes or no, do you think the party line culture is about to end in New Jersey?

- I think the party line culture is about to change dramatically in New Jersey.

It might be gone completely, but it will most definitely be changed.

- David Wildstein, Editor, "New Jersey Globe,"" one of our media partners.

Check it out.

Interesting, important information.

Thanks David.

Appreciate it.

- Thank you.

- I'm Steve Adubato, that's David Wildstein.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Operating Engineers, Local 825.

New Jersey’s Clean Energy program.

Rutgers University Newark.

Johnson & Johnson.

NJM Insurance Group.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

And by The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

And by Meadowlands Media.

(light music) - The New Jersey Board of Public Utilities, in partnership with utility companies throughout the state, can help you save money and create a more comfortable home through Comfort Partners, a free program that helps income-eligible customers reduce their utility bills through cost-effective measures that save energy, including lighting, hot water heaters, large appliances, heating and cooling improvements, insulation, and much more.

Learn more at NJCleanEnergy.com/CP.