(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) - I think the role of a teacher is super important.

I'm sure most of you would agree.

And I want to take a look at two things and talk about them really quick.

This is the most recent study I could find from the National Center of Education Statistics.

But look at these disparities in the race and ethnicity of teachers in the public school setting.

So why is that?

Why do you think we have this huge disparity between white public school teachers and BIPOC public school teachers?

It comes down to funding.

Low-income School districts are more than twice as likely to have a funding gap.

And districts that have more than 50% of Black or Latinx enrollment are nearly twice as likely to have a funding gap.

And this goes back to my original point.

Black students need Black educators.

The problem lies within the money.

But the best way to combat this is by reinvesting in our education system.

This starts with providing educational resources that are equally accessible and equitable for our low-income and BIPOC students.

- Hey, y'all.

I'm Kiara Butler, and welcome to "Generation Rising" where we discuss hard-hitting topics that our diverse communities face every day.

Today's topic is educational disparities.

I'd like to welcome Leanne Barrett and Paige Clausius-Parks from the Rhode Island Kids Count.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- How are you y'all?

- Thank you for having us.

- Yes, I'm so happy to have you here, especially with the topic that we're discussing in education.

I think Rhode Island Kids Count is well positioned to talk about this topic.

- Our Annual Fact Book comes out every year in the spring where we release our most recent available data that tracks several indicators of children's wellbeing in Rhode Island.

So that includes children's development, economical being, health, safety, and education.

- Okay, and so how did that come about?

Why did you start producing that every year?

- Well, we've been working for more than 25 years in Rhode Island to produce the Fact Book.

And it is really started with the understanding that a lot of policies were not based on facts or information and more on anecdotes.

So the Annie E Casey Foundation actually funds a kids count project in every state so that policy makers and advocates and parents and program providers, school districts have accurate information about children's wellbeing to make good decisions so that we can improve outcomes for children.

- And I know I just jumped right into the Fact Book, not the Facebook because you have it here, but can you tell our viewers more, what is Rhode Island's Kids Count?

- Great, yeah.

So we are a statewide policy and advocacy organization dedicated to improving the lives of Rhode Island's children.

And we do that through releasing data and information.

We also advocate for policies that will improve children's wellbeing with a strong focus on equity.

So we are committed to eliminating unacceptable disparities by race, ethnicity, income, language status, disability status, zip code, immigration status.

And we also work with programs.

We work with young people and students to give them information they need to be able to advocate.

And we also raise up youth voices 'cause these issues impact young people.

So they should be the folks who are there really helping to guide policy and help make decisions around what happens in their lives.

- And so we hear that word equity a lot, right?

Especially with the DEI movement getting momentum since the murder of George Floyd.

How do you all define equity?

- Sure, so I first think equity is defined by looking at first acknowledging that everyone is not the same, right?

So we all have different backgrounds, race, ethnicities, language, our income of our families, our historical backgrounds, and how all those differences interact with our systems is really important to know and understand.

And what equity is, is looking at those differences, looking at the challenges, the barriers, and also the assets that come with all of our differences.

And working hard to eliminate those barriers, so that in education setting, so that students are able to have the resources and the supports that they need to achieve and be successful.

- And would you say that our education system is equitable?

- I think we're working towards that.

We're really working hard to get there.

Our education system wasn't developed based on equity, right?

So it was established that in a system that was only for very few limited people.

So mostly white men with higher income, like it was developed for those folks.

And over time, we have gotten to realize that like everyone needs education.

Education's extremely important on the individual level and also on a community and societal level.

So everyone needs to have access to education, and we're doing a lot of work right now to fix the system so that it is equal opportunity and produces great results for everyone.

We're not quite there yet, but there are many people working hard so that our education system works for all.

- Another thing we're learning more and more about over the last 20 years is how important early childhood is.

And development starting in infancy really, really matters.

And a lot of kids enter school and kindergarten not on equal footing, and the gap just widens over time.

But there's a significant difference in how many opportunities and resources families have, how much stress they're exposed to.

And that really affects child development upon which all of education is based.

- Mm-hmm, and so what have you found in your research in terms of those educational disparities or the inequities that exist when we're thinking about early childhood?

- Well, we have very different systems depending on the resources that are available.

But we have made a lot of improvements with pre-K, our RI pre-K program is one of the best in the whole country.

We have a really strong Head Start system, which was started in during the war on poverty in the 1960s and '70s, statewide, and actually a lot of the lowest income kids have access to high-quality pre-K, at least when they're four.

Although we still have a long way to go.

But we made some significant improvements over the years.

But we don't have great data in Rhode Island about children's development and learning at kindergarten entry.

The first real time you can see the significant gaps is at third grade, when there is the statewide testing.

And we do see that there is a significant difference in children's skills and knowledge at third grade.

That's true nationally.

It's true in Rhode Island.

And we know that that starts really, really early.

And the earlier we can intervene, particularly with developing strong positive relationships for children's foundational development of social emotional skills.

'Cause language is built on relationships.

And reading is built on language, and there's just a huge amount of work we need to do to strengthen the system so that all families, when they first welcome a baby or a new child into their home have what they need in order to promote the positive development so that kids can live up to all of their potentials.

- And why would you say those disparities exist?

- Well, there's a lot of reasons why they exist, but mostly it's, if we're looking at looking, talking about race equity and specifically, we have policies that were developed both education policy, economic policy, housing policies that really marginalize people of color, and that impacts students access to the resources that they need to be able to be successful.

So communities of color, having less access to safe affordable housing, less access to incomes and employment that allows families to take care of themselves.

A student comes into school not having those resources available to them.

It makes learning much more difficult.

And then we look at our education system itself.

We have a lot still to do to ensure that our schools are providing the resources that kids need so that they're able to succeed in school.

And so, you know, if we look at kids of color, they're often entering into schools where their educators don't look like them, which has a large impact on the rigor of which they have schooling, their ability to connect and have meaningful relationships with educators who care about them.

Also, how we look at and approach discipline is different when there is cultural and racial differences between educator and students.

How well families are received in school.

So we know family engagement is really critically important for student success.

And if parents of color or low-income parents or families don't feel safe and welcomed in school, that's going to impact that students experience in school as well.

So there's so many ways in which a student's identity, how they interact with the world, the resources they have outside of school, impacts their ability to perform in school.

- Mm-hmm, and there's data nationally that talks about the criminalization of Black boys and Black girls, especially when it comes to disciplinary infractions, at disproportionate rates to their white peers.

Do you see that in Rhode Island data as well?

Is that a Rhode Island issue, or is it just a national issue?

- It's a Rhode Island issue, as well as a national issue.

So students of color and students with IEPs are disproportionately represented in students who have been suspended, had out-of-school suspension or have some type of involvement in law enforcement in school.

And that has many negative implications for those populations.

So suspensions, a lot of people think that suspensions are supposed to like teach kids a lesson and improve behavior, that's not what actually happens.

Research shows that suspension actually reinforces negative behaviors, and then a student's been suspended is also more likely to feel disconnected from school, to have less relationships or impacted relationship with teachers and peers.

They're more likely to be involved in the juvenile justice system, and then that's where the term school-to-prison pipeline comes in.

So it has a great impact.

So if we think about that, if students of color and students with special needs are more likely to be involved in that type of over-disciplined or have harsh disciplinary practices against them, that, again, leads into all their other future experiences in education, which then, of course, impacts the likelihood of going into college, the likelihood of being able to get financial aid to afford college, likelihood of being able to get jobs and careers that will provide a productive and economically sustainable family for themselves.

So it all connects together.

- So that there is that long-term lasting impact of your experience that you had in school and how you end up, what avenue you take once you graduate.

Leanne, I was doing my dissertation.

I was looking for, you know, case studies and things to write about, and I saw a case study where teachers were asked to watch students in the classroom, and they were asked to identify like problematic behaviors or disruptive behaviors.

And the kicker was none of the kids were being disruptive.

However, about 90% of the teachers identified the Black student as being disruptive, right?

And so it shows that implicit bias that shows up.

Does our data say the same thing regarding implicit bias in early childhood and how that impacts disciplinary?

- Well, that study has definitely been widely reviewed all across the country and in Rhode Island.

So people are aware of it, and I know there are efforts to address those.

And we've seen some significant improvements in the young grades at reducing suspensions.

We have very few kids, although we still have some kindergarten, first and second grade kids who are suspended, which means you go home to your mom usually, or dad has to stay home and miss work, which is highly disruptive to families.

Families can lose their jobs over that.

And it, again, is not a strong support for the kids' behavior.

But, yes, there is those racial, those racial attention that they talk about in that study where teachers' eyes, they track eyes, and they're watching the Black boys in particular and looking for any possible infraction and really singling them out.

Maybe not, you know, with harsh discipline, but just repeatedly saying, "Stop doing that, and you need to stop, sit down," various things like that.

And over time, if that happens to you every day, you really start feeling like you're a bad kid, that you are, you know, there's something that somehow you're being singled out, and sometimes you can see other kids doing the same thing, but not being singled out and not being told to stop, to sit down, to be quiet.

And other kids don't have that level of oversight and strong attention.

So we know that that is happening.

And so we're assuming that happens in a lot of settings and can be, you know, subconscious basically for a teacher.

And that they need coaching and a lot of supports to adopt better teaching strategies and behavior management.

- Mm-hmm, no, internalization is real, right?

And perception is real.

I know oftentimes when I was in school, my teacher said I had a bad attitude, and I really didn't have a bad attitude.

I just feel like I'm direct and straight to the point.

But because she said I had a bad attitude, I was like, "Okay, let me take that on.

I'm gonna show you what a bad attitude actually is," right?

I don't think she was expecting that at all, but I asked that, well, I say that because, how do you think our students, our families, our parents, they are perceiving our education system if these inequities exist, and they're feeling them, and then they're experiencing them every day?

- Mm-hmm.

- Yeah, I would imagine that many families feel, can feel a couple of ways, completely helpless and trapped.

Right?

- Yep.

Like there's no way out and no way to figure out how to fix the system.

And our education, it's very complicated.

We talk in acronyms.

It's hard to figure out how to even have a voice or have a say.

Public meetings for many of our, in education policy is really hard to get to.

So you can feel like you're trapped, and you can't do anything about it.

So that in some families probably feel that way.

I'm sure some families are really angry as they should be and are taking action and our organizing so that they can make change that they wanna see in their schools.

- Mm-hmm.

- Yeah, yeah.

- I was just at a meeting with Parents Leading for Educational Equity on Friday, and that is a group of parents organizing in the Providence, Potaka, at Central- - Is that PLEE?

- It's PLEE, yes, PLEE.

They go by PLEE.

But I said the whole thing out.

(laughs) Parents Leading for Educational Equity, and a group of parents talking about the challenges in getting their kids services.

Young children, again, I do the youngest kids.

We have 800 children right now on the early intervention waiting list that is, those are infants and toddlers with developmental challenges.

And we also know that, for example, Providence has one of the lowest rates of participation for special ed services for children three through five.

There are other districts that have much better participation rates.

So there's just lots of opportunities for ways to fix the systems.

Different parts of the system all need to be fixed simultaneously.

But the idea of getting parents to be part of the process, identifying what the problems are and to be able to be at the table or leading the charge really in saying this is what needs to be fixed now, and this is our recommendation for how you should fix it, is something that we're seeing more and more of in Rhode Island.

- Yeah, and Providence is the largest district.

You would think they would have all the money and all the funding.

Would you say that there's like a relationship between funding and inequity within education?

- So there's two parts of that.

So absolutely there needs to be funding so there's enough resources available to get students what they need.

Also need to make sure that those resources are used well and resources are used in practices that reflect what students need and also flexible enough to be able to adjust when kids need different things or different kids need different things.

So it's both.

We need the right funding and we need to be able to spend that funding in the correct ways.

- Yep.

- Yeah.

- And so what system, structures, policies, I feel like that could go three different ways, right?

Do we incorporate or implement to balance the scale?

What system, structures or policies need to be in place in order for us to be able to say we're providing a high-quality education to every student?

- [Paige] You wanna go first?

- Okay, well, I'll start with the youngest.

So starting with at birth and in the early days of life, having really strong families and families who feel like they have the resources they need and the time that they need.

So we have this Right From The Start campaign that has eight organizations including PLEE and Latino Policy Institute, Economic Policy Institute, Progress Institute, I mean, and several other organizations to work on policies that help families.

And we have families identifying that.

So that includes paid family leave.

We have a program but we need to strengthen that 'cause we know those relationships early on.

High-quality childcare, high-quality pre-K and Head Start, and just other parts of the system that really we have completely inadequate funding for.

And, you know, we certainly probably don't have enough adequate funding for K12 either.

But the fact that we neglect so many young children, and the foundation when those differences growing, when kids' skills and knowledge develop very rapidly, and depending on how much stress they have and how many high-quality enriching learning opportunities they have are very inequitable.

- So we have an accountability system.

We have, you know, school accountability system, but that system now needs to mean something.

So what happens when we see that there are these large disparities?

How are we holding our schools and school districts and education leaders accountable for better results for all of our kids?

And that I think we also need to have like some improvements with our governance structure.

It is so difficult for young people and parents to have influence and to lead the policy charge that we need to see.

And I would like to see some improvements there.

So that, of course, like policies that are written by the folks most impacted are gonna be the ones that are probably better serving this community.

So I'd like to see some changes there.

- And I thought of workforce pipeline, which I know that, yes, the teacher, there's still, you know, a growing teacher shortage and challenges with substitute pools and various things in lots of school districts across the state.

And we know that really there's a huge challenge, and we have such an opportunity with so many, the kids are much more diverse than the adults and the teachers.

And what can we do now?

We need to start now.

Because it takes a long time to prepare a teacher and kids in high school and middle school who could become teachers, and the awesome adults who work in early childhood, many of whom are women, low-wage women, that are predominantly people of color who do great things, but at very low wages, and opportunities for more adults who are really great with kids to earn the degrees and credentials that they need to in order to get a better paying high-wage job in the education sector.

And so I would say that that's, you know, more attention is paid to that.

I know there's a TA to BA program.

- [Kiara] Mm-hmm, through Equity Institute, yeah.

- That a lot of people are really excited about, and there's systemic problems in the higher ed system that are barriers that prevent people who've been trying for 10 years, let's say, to get a bachelor's degree.

- Yeah.

- That could be removed.

There are policies unrelated to funding probably that could be adjusted in our higher ed system so that there's a smoother process, and the awesome experience and real life knowledge people have 'cause they're in early childhood classrooms right now, and other kinds of afterschool settings where we know they're competent with kids, and they can get credit for those great skills they've built in the community and through community-based professional development.

- All right.

And so I know you work with a lot of organizations, and you provide recommendations, I'm sure, but if you had to leave our viewers with a couple of recommendations, whether it's students, parents, staff, people in admin, principals, superintendents, what recommendations would you leave us with today?

- I have so many.

- (Leanne laughs) - [Paige] Look, list them all.

- (laughs) I guess, for young people, I would recommend to listen to your gut, right?

I think a lot of times adults, we either don't listen to young people or try to explain a way their feelings that they're having, and the feelings that you have in your school setting are very real.

There's probably no experience that's more important than the experience and the feelings of our students.

So what you're feeling is real.

And I would recommend finding the young people who are doing organizing work to make some change.

So for young people that are in Providence, Arise is doing awesome work.

Providence to Union, Youth in Action, Young Voices, they're doing some awesome, awesome, phenomenal work.

So get connected to them.

Meet other young people who are, you know, really working hard to make some changes and get connected there.

For our educators and our teachers, talk to your students.

Talk to your families.

Learn about what their experiences are.

And in many ways our educators can be that gateway to help try to explain, you know, take what's happening, what you're hearing from young people and parents, and using your education speak in language, being able to figure out the avenues to create some change.

- So I wanna thank you both for joining us today, but we have run out of time.

Before you go though, you do have to sign our board.

We've started a tradition.

So I'm gonna grab some chalk for you all.

I'm forcing you to sign it.

You don't have a choice.

(smooth jazz music) (smooth jazz music continues) (smooth jazz music continues) (smooth jazz music continues)