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AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM ♪ >>> THE RESTRUCTURING OF THE LEGISLATURE HAS PUT NEW CHAIRS AT THE HEAD OF SEVERAL KEY COMMITTEES, NONE MORE IMPORTANT THAN EDUCATION.

HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," I'M DAVID CRUZ, ALONG WITH A FINE BAND OF STATE HOUSE JOURNALISTS, INCLUDING STACIE SHERMAN, DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. BUREAUS FOR BLOOMBERG, KATHERINE LANDREGEN, POLITICO, AND THE BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

THEY'LL BE JOINING ME IN A BIT BUT WE START TODAY WITH THE NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE EDUCATION COMMITTEE, VIN GOPAL OF MONMOUTH COUNTY.

SENATOR, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> SO, THIS IS REALLY BEEN THE TOUGHEST TWO SCHOOL YEARS IN MEMORY.

SO MANY CHALLENGES FACED BY KIDS AND PARENTS AND EDUCATIONAL STAFF.

WHERE HAS THE PANDEMIC HIT HARDEST IN YOUR MIND?

>> DEFINITELY LEARNING LOSS, KIDS NOT BEING IN THE CLASSROOM, EVEN DURING THAT SHORT TIME PERIOD WHEN NOBODY WAS IN REALLY HAD A BIG EFFECT.

A CHILD EVEN NOT HAVING THEIR GRADUATION OR PROM CAN HAVE MENTAL HEALTH IMPACTS.

WE'VE SEEN THAT IN EARLY STUDIES, AND ESPECIALLY SPECIAL NEEDS FAMILIES, THEY PROBABLY HAVE THE HARDEST TIME DURING THE PANDEMIC, AS THAT LEARNING LOSS IS GOING TO BE HARDER FOR THEIR KIDS TO RECOVER MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S.

>> YEAH, WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE LACK OF ACCESS TO REMOTE LEARNING.

HAS THAT SHRUNK?

>> YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT TO -- AND I'M A BIG SUPPORTER OF IN-PERSON EDUCATION.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT WORK.

I DON'T KNOW IF REMOTE LEARNING MAKES SENSE, ESPECIALLY AS WE'VE SEEN THIS LAST VARIANT NOT AS STRENUOUS AS PAST ONES, GOD WILLING, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR IN-PERSON EDUCATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

>> SO, IN YOUR MIND, I MEAN, IS IT SO TERRIBLE THAT WE CAN'T EVEN, LIKE, SAY THIS WEEKEND, THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG SNOWSTORM, LET'S SAY THAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.

ARE WE UNPREPARED ENOUGH TO, SAY, HAVE A SNOW DAY THAT HAPPENS TO BE EVERYBODY HOME BUT STILL IN SCHOOL?

>> YEAH, SO, WE'RE WORKING ON SOME THINGS RIGHT NOW IN THE SENATE EDUCATION COMMITTEE RELATED TO THAT, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO START BEING CREATIVE NOW AS IT RELATES TO SNOW DAYS MOVING FORWARD AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

I DO ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, LOOK, ONE OF EVERYBODY'S POSITIVE MEMORIES GROWING UP IS THAT SNOW DAY, AND THAT IS FOR A LOT OF KIDS, SO I DO THINK IT IS -- THERE'S A GOOD THING FOR A KID TO HAVE A SNOW DAY AND BUNDLE UP AND GO OUT INTO THE SNOW.

SO IT'S TRYING TO FIND THAT BALANCE.

>> WE ARE SEEING FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES IN HOW SCHOOLS DO BUSINESS, SOME HAVE CANCELED MIDTERMS, OTHERS HAVE ADJUSTED THE WAY THEY'RE EVALUATING KIDS WITH GRADES.

IT SEEMS UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO BACK TO NORMAL ONCE EMERGENCY RESTRICTIONS ARE FINALLY LIFTED, RIGHT?

NORMAL IS NOT AROUND THE CORNER.

>> THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, IS A VERSION OF THE NEW NORMAL, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADAPT AND DO THE BEST WE CAN.

OUR TEACHERS RIGHT NOW, AND ADMINISTRATORS, ARE DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB UNDER VERY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

I CAN'T IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PARENTS THAT ARE SCREAMING ABOUT MASKS OR DON'T WEAR MASKS OR ANY OTHER ISSUE.

THESE EDUCATORS, UNDER VERY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES, NOTHING THAT THEY DID WRONG, NO PAY INCREASE FOR THEM AS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THIS, REALLY HAVE DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB AND CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

>> LOT OF STAFF SHORTAGES STILL BEING REPORTED AROUND THE STATE.

HOW TERRIBLE IS THAT SITUATION?

>> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, EVEN FINDING SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS HAS BEEN DIFFICULT, SO WE HAVE TO DO A LOT.

I HAD A CALL YESTERDAY WITH THE CHAIRWOMAN OF THE ASSEMBLY EDUCATION COMMITTEE, MY COUNTERPART, AS WELL AS MY PREDECESSOR, NOW MAJORITY LEADER RUIZ, AND THEY HAD DONE SOME REALLY INNOVATIVE STUFF ON TEACHER RECRUITMENT.

I PLAN TO HAVE SOMETHING OUT VERY SHORTLY THAT SPECIFICALLY LOOKS AT INCREASING TEACHER PAY AND HOPEFULLY CAN BE A REAL MODEL HERE AND REALLY WORK ON RECRUITING A LOT MORE EDUCATORS TO AN INCREDIBLE PROFESSION.

>> SCHOOL FUNDING IS THAT 800-POUND GORILLA SITTING OUT THERE.

I GOT ABOUT A MINUTE.

YOU WANT TO FIX THE SCHOOL FUNDING FOR ME -- FOR US TODAY?

>> SO, WE GOT A COUPLE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO.

WE HAVE TO START LOOKING AT HOW OUR SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED, AND IT'S FUNDED PRIMARILY ON PROPERTY TAXES, AND I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO START LOOKING AT AN INCOME TAX FORMULA.

WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT EXTRAORDINARY SPECIAL EDUCATION FUNDING.

WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT SCHOOL DISTRICT REGIONALIZATION, AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT FIXING THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN OUR 600-PLUS SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF HVAC, PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, ROOFING ISSUES, THOSE ARE ALL SOME OF THE BIG CHALLENGES AND THEY ALL RELATE DIRECTLY TO SCHOOL FUNDING.

>> HOW WOULD AN INCOME TAX MODEL BE DIFFERENT FROM THE CURRENT SYSTEM?

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, ONE WOULD USE INCOME TAX AND THE OTHER USES REAL ESTATE TAXES, BUT WHAT'S THE NET DIFFERENCE?

WHO'S AFFECTED BY THAT THE MOST?

>> YEAH, WE'RE IN THE EARLY PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THIS, AND IT WOULD REALLY HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE SENIORS AND THOSE WHO ARE ON A FIXED INCOME, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO NO LONGER HAVE KIDS IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

IT WOULD HELP THEM TRY TO STAY IN NEW JERSEY, NOT MOVE TO FLORIDA OR THE CAROLINAS, AND KEEP IT AFFORDABLE FOR THEM.

WE'VE GOT FOLKS, DAVID, WHO ARE PAYING $12,000 OR $13,000 IN PROPERTY TAXES ON THE SAME HOUSE THEY'VE OWNED, AND IT'S VERY, VERY UNAFFORDABLE FOR THEM, SO LOOKING AT INCOME TAXES, WHICH WOULD AFFECT THOSE WHO ARE AT THE HIGHEST INCOME BRACKETS, I THINK, MIGHT BE A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY TO LOOK ON HOW WE PAY OUR SCHOOLS.

>> I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT I DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOLS DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, BESET BY SCANDAL, BASICALLY OUT OF MONEY.

WE JUST SAW VOTERS IN HOBOKEN REJECT A LOCAL EFFORT TO BUILD A NEW SCHOOL FOR $240 MILLION.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO BUILD NEW SCHOOLS IN NEW JERSEY?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FEDERAL FUNDS.

THE STATE IS SITTING ON $3.2 BILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDS RIGHT NOW AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S CHIEF OF STAFF LAST WEEK ABOUT LOOKING AT USING SOME OF THESE FUNDS TO UPDATE OUR 600 SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SDA, MANNY DE SILVA, LIVES IN MY DISTRICT.

I THINK HE'S A GOOD MAN.

I THINK HE'S DOING A GOOD JOB AND I THINK WE NEED TO TRY TO WORK WITH HIM TO SEE HOW WE CAN EMPOWER SDA.

>> STEVE SWEENEY, THE FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT, SAID THE SDA HAD TO GO.

I ASSUME YOU'RE NOT OF THAT MINDSET.

>> NO.

I'M NOT.

BUT I DO THINK THERE WERE CHALLENGES THERE, MAYBE A NAME CHANGE MAY BE WARRANTED, MAYBE A REBRANDING EFFORT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE CURRENT FOLKS WORKING AT SDA HAVE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB, AT LEAST IN MY DEALINGS WITH THEM THIS PAST YEAR.

>> HOW DIFFICULT IS IT GOING TO BE TO SUCCEED AT CREATING SOME SORT OF SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IS GOING TO BE NECESSARY TO BRING OVERALL COSTS DOWN?

>> YOU KNOW, WE MADE IT VOLUNTARY AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO START BECOMING FORCED IN SOME EFFORTS, ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO HEALTHCARE SERVICES, WASTE MANAGEMENT, SNOW REMOVAL, I.T., COMMUNICATIONS.

WE CAN'T HAVE 600 DIFFERENT ENTITIES ALL DOING THEIR OWN THINGS.

I'VE GOT A REPORT HERE IN ONE SCHOOL DISTRICT I'M SEEING WHERE THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS HAVE GONE UP MORE THAN 20% IN THE LAST 5 YEARS WHILE THEIR ENROLLMENT HAS GONE DOWN.

WE'VE GOT SO MANY DIFFERENT CHALLENGES, BUT I THINK THAT CONSOLIDATING SERVICES IS THE WAY TO GO.

>> I SAVED MY TOUGHEST QUESTION FOR THE END HERE.

THIS SCHOOL DESEGREGATION SUIT, IT'S HEADED TO COURT IN MARCH, I THINK.

IF THE REMEDIES INCLUDE CONSOLIDATED DISTRICTS OR MAYBE EVEN BUSSING, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> YEAH, WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT CAREFULLY.

IT'S WITHOUT A DOUBT, NEW JERSEY HAS A BIG CHALLENGE AS IT COMES TO SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

WE SEE IT ACROSS OUR 565 TOWNS, AND I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT THE NEW JERSEY LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO FACE OUTSIDE OF THIS FEDERAL LAWSUIT THAT'S IN FRONT OF US.

SO, THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

WE ARE THE MOST DIVERSE STATE IN THE COUNTRY, AND WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SOME OF THE MOST SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

>> ALL RIGHT, VIN GOPAL IS THE NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE EDUCATION COMMITTEE.

SENATOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL OF JOURNALISTIC SMARTIES.

STACIE SHERMAN, KATHERINE LANDERGAN AND JOHN.

JUST HEARING SENATOR GOPAL TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA AND THE SDA, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT STAKE HERE.

WHAT'D YOU THINK OF GOPAL'S ANSWERS?

>> I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, HE HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT, FRESH IDEAS, BUT IT'S STILL EARLY, RIGHT?

I MEAN, HE JUST TOOK THE JOB OVER FROM TERESA RUIZ, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE WHILE FOR HIM TO FIGURE OUT AND FLESH OUT HIS AGENDA AND KIND OF DO IT UNDER THE DIRECTION OF RUIZ AND I'M INTERESTED TO SEE HOW THEY'LL WORK TOGETHER AND HOW THAT DYNAMIC WILL PLAY OUT.

>> STACIE, I FEEL LIKE THERE WERE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FLYING AROUND THE STATE FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

NONE OF THAT APPEARED TO BE FOR SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

IS THE STATE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BORROW MONEY FOR SCHOOLS NOW?

LET ME REPHRASE THAT.

THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO BORROW MONEY FOR SCHOOLS NOW, RIGHT?

>> IT'S VERY POSSIBLE.

THEY DON'T HAVE JUST BILLIONS, YOU KNOW, FOR SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION AND SCHOOLS ARE IN DIRE NEED OF REPAIR AND LOCAL RESIDENTS AREN'T WILLING TO HAVE THEIR TAXES, THEIR LOCAL TAXES INCREASE TO PAY FOR IT AS WE JUST SAW THIS WEEK IN HOBOKEN WHERE THEY SHOT DOWN A $241 MILLION BOND PROPOSAL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ENTIRELY FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS.

SO, THE -- I THINK THE FEDERAL AND THE STATE GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STEP IN AND SPEND MONEY.

>> I MEAN, THAT SCHOOL IN HOBOKEN, THAT'S JUST DOWN THE ROAD FROM ME, SOUNDED LIKE WHAT CORY BOOKER USED TO CALL CATHEDRALS OF LEARNING WITH, YOU KNOW, TWO SWIMMING POOLS, LABS AND ALL OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, $200 MILLION SCHOOLS, IF EVERYBODY WANTS A $200 MILLION SCHOOL, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT, STACIE?

>> WELL, HOBOKEN IS A UNIQUE ISSUE.

I MEAN, THEY'RE TRYING TO LURE AND KEEP THE WEALTHY FAMILIES THAT ARE SENDING THEIR KIDS TO CHARTER SCHOOLS AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

THEY WANT THEM GOING TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, THERE'S A BALANCE, AND SO THIS IS WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS OFFER AMENITIES LIKE THIS IN ORDER TO GET THE KIDS BACK INTO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND SHOW THEM THAT THEY CAN GET EVERYTHING FROM A PRIVATE SCHOOL AT A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

SO, YOU SEE BOTH POINTS AS A BALANCE THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO STRIKE, AND THIS JUST WAS NOT PALATABLE FOR VOTERS.

>> THIS REMINDS ME, WATCHING THIS B ROLL, REMINDS ME OF HOW PEOPLE WALK FUNNY IN COMPUTER ANIMATIONS.

SO, I WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME TALKING ABOUT BUDGETS AND THE ECONOMY.

JOHN, IT'S BEGINNING TO LOOK A LOT LIKE BUDGET SEASON.

THE GOVERNOR'S ANNUAL BUDGET ADDRESS IS COMING IN JUST A FEW WEEKS.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS YEAR, I THINK THE CLOSEST -- WE'RE ALL WATCHING REVENUES BECAUSE AS REVENUES GO, SO GOES SPENDING AND SO ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS THE BUDGET'S HAD A LOT OF TAIL WIND OVER THE FIRST HALF OF THE FISCAL YEAR AND THAT USUALLY MEANS WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE FOR THE SECOND HALF BUT MORE MONEY GETS COLLECTED IN THE SECOND HALF SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO STILL AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THE KEY WILL BE WHERE THEY FORESEE, BECAUSE REMEMBER, THIS FISCAL YEAR STARTS IN JULY AND GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF NEXT JUNE.

SO THEY HAVE TO KIND OF PUT OUT THE CRYSTAL BALL AND SEE WHERE THE ECONOMY'S GOING TO GO, ALL THE WAY OUT, MORE THAN 12 MONTHS FROM NOW EVEN.

AND SO THAT'S A DIFFICULT TASK COMING OUT OF A PANDEMIC.

IT'S BEEN A REALLY SWIFT RECOVERY IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE OF ALL THE FEDERAL INTERVENTION AND NEW JERSEY STILL HAS LIKE $3 BILLION IN FEDERAL MONEY TO SPEND, EVEN AFTER ALREADY SPENDING ABOUT $3 BILLION, SO AWASH IN REVENUE RIGHT NOW, BUT THE TRICK IS FIGURING OUT WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE AT THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR THAT DOESN'T START UNTIL JULY, AND SO THAT'S THE TRICKY THING.

THE CURRENT BUDGET IS BALANCED WITH SURPLUS, BASICALLY, BUDGET RESERVES WERE USED TO BALANCE THE CURRENT BUDGET.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT EVERY YEAR OR YOU RUN OUT OF SURPLUS, AND YOU NEED A SURPLUS, SO THAT'S SORT OF THE BIGGEST THING TO LOOK AT AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THE GOVERNOR AND LAWMAKERS PROPOSE AS SOMETHING NEW, IF ANYTHING, IN RESPONSE TO THIS ELECTION WHERE EVERYBODY SAID, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY'S NOT AFFORDABLE, AND SO ANY NEW, SHINY TAX RELIEF MEASURE THAT GETS ROLLED OUT TO TRY AND ADDRESS THAT AFFORDABILITY ISSUE, I MEAN, LAST YEAR, THEY DID UP TO $500 TAX REBATES, LITERALLY SENT CHECKS TO PEOPLE, AND THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO MOVE THE NEEDLE, SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING I THINK THAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

>> YEAH, AND HOW IT IMPACTS THE BUDGET, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IF AFFORDABILITY IS NOT GOING TO COME FROM THE STORE DOWN THE BLOCK, YOU KNOW, LOWERING ITS PRICE FOR A BGLOCK OF MILK.

AFFORDABILITY MEANS MY TAXES, THE COST OF TRANSPORTATION, ET CETERA, RIGHT?

>> I THINK IT'S ALL OF THOSE THINGS, TO BE HONEST, AND I THINK TAXES, OBVIOUSLY, PLAY A BIG ROLE, AND MAYBE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY CAN INFLUENCE THAT BECAUSE THEY CAN VOTE PEOPLE OUT OF OFFICE OR, YOU KNOW, AS WE JUST SAW, THE SENATE PRESIDENT LOST HIS SEAT IN THIS MOST RECENT ELECTION.

AND SO, MAYBE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S EASIEST TO DO BUT MORE THAN TEN YEARS AGO, JOHN CORZINE CAME UP WITH PROPERTY TAX REBATES AND HE GOT VOTED OUT OF OFFICE SO IT'S ALWAYS A TRICKY THING, AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT -- IF THERE IS A SHINY NEW OBJECT OR IF THERE'S SOME OTHER WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN FEEL LIKE EITHER THEY'RE GETTING A BREAK OR GETTING A GOOD DEAL.

>> RIGHT, AND IT'S ALL GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE STATE BANK.

KATHERINE, IS THE PROCESS -- THE BUDGET PROCESS GOING TO BE ANY DIFFERENT THIS YEAR?

MOST OF THE HEARINGS WERE VIRTUAL LAST GO ROUND.

WILL WE BE SEEING FUNDING PITCHES IN-PERSON THIS TIME AROUND?

>> WE DON'T HAVE THE SCHEDULE YET, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT YES, IT WILL BE MORE IN-PERSON.

I THINK THE ONE THING TO REALLY WATCH IN TERMS OF THIS BUDGET PROCESS IS I RECENTLY SPOKE WITH THE NEW SENATE PRESIDENT, SENATOR SCUTARI AND HE HAS INDICATED THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO NOT HAVE A RUSH AT THE END OF THINGS, AND SO IF HE'S ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT,LIKE AT THE END OF BUDGET SEASON, THERE ISN'T THIS MAD DASH TO NEGOTIATE AND PASS BILLS, THAT WOULD BE A MASSIVE SHIFT IN WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN TRENTON.

>> DO WE KNOW WHERE ALL THE MONEY'S GONE?

I MEAN, THERE'S $3.2 BILLION LYING AROUND.

HAS A LOT OF IT BEEN SPENT, OR IS IT JUST WAITING FOR GUIDELINES FOR USE?

>> IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL FUNDS?

>> THE FEDERAL MONEY, YEAH.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S STILL A LOT OF IT HAS YET TO BE SPENT.

AND SO THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO -- I MEAN, A GOOD PORTION HAS BEEN SPENT BUT THERE'S STILL MONEY REMAINING, AND SO THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE HASHED OUT.

>> IF THAT FEDERAL MONEY'S NOT AROUND, THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK FOR SOME PLACE ELSE TO GET MONEY, BUT HE SAYS NO NEW TAXES.

THAT KIND OF DEPENDS ON THE ROBUST ECONOMY, I THINK.

DO WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE IN NEW JERSEY, STACIE?

A ROBUST ECONOMY?

>> WE ARE DEFINITELY DOING BETTER THAN WE DID LAST YEAR.

A YEAR AGO, I WOULD SAY.

WE ARE ON OUR WAY UP.

IT'S JUST HOW QUICKLY WE GET THERE.

OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HAS IMPROVED FROM A YEAR AGO, AND THERE'S MORE JOBS, BUT I THINK WE'VE STILL -- WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE POINT WE WERE PRE-PANDEMIC, SO I THINK THAT'S THE KEY LEVEL THERE TO RECOVER ALL THE JOBS LOST IN THE PANDEMIC AND THEN GROW FROM THERE.

>> SO YOU'RE SAYING JOBS IS THE BOTTOM LINE, THE KEY INDICATOR, AT LEAST FOR THE STATE'S ECONOMY?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

WE GOT TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.

THAT'S RESTAURANTS NEED IT, BUSINESSES NEED EMPLOYEES, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE TO KEEP THEIR LABOR COSTS DOWN, AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO STAY OPEN, SO IT'S ALL ABOUT JOBS AND GETTING THESE BUSINESSES BACK TO NORMAL AGAIN.

>> THAT'S PART OF THE CONFLICT, RIGHT?

SO MANY PEOPLE QUITTING THEIR JOBS BECAUSE THEY WANT A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE, AND BUSINESS SAYING, HEY, WE NEED MORE EMPLOYEES, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO PAY ANY MORE FOR THEM.

THAT'S -- GO AHEAD.

>> THAT'S THE BALANCE RIGHT THERE, RIGHT?

I HAVE BEEN AT THE SAME JOB FOR 25 YEARS, SO I'M -- I DON'T KNOW THIS -- SO MANY PEOPLE ARE -- I DON'T KNOW THAT ABILITY TO JUST QUIT LIKE THAT OR TO JUST CHANGE AND SAY THAT, SO I THINK IT'S INTERESTING.

THERE IS A BALANCE THERE.

SORRY, I'M LOSING MY VOICE.

THERE'S A BALANCE THERE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH YOU PAY A WORKER AND WHETHER IT'S WORTH IT.

>> JOHN, NATIONALLY, WE'VE SEEN CLOSE TO 6% GROWTH OVER THE YEAR, ALMOST 7% FOR THE QUARTER.

HOW DOES OUR ECONOMY MEASURE UP TO THAT?

NEW JERSEY'S ECONOMY.

>> IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO GDP GROWTH, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY'S HAD SOME PRETTY GOOD GDP GROWTH AS WELL, BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT SOME OF THIS IS BEING MEASURED OFF OF A TIME WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS LARGELY SHUT DOWN ON PURPOSE, AND SO THE GOVERNMENT'S BEEN VERY ACTIVE IN TERMS OF INTERVENTION OVER THE -- REALLY GOING BACK WELL OVER A YEAR, SENDING OUT STIMULUS PAYMENTS TO INDIVIDUALS, BUMPING UP UNEMPLOYMENT.

THE FED HAS BEEN REALLY ACTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCIAL MARKETS, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE EFFORTS, REALLY, SINCE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOOK OVER, HAVE BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO PREVENT A REALLY DEEP RECESSION, AND SO WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T HAPPENING JUST ORGANICALLY OFF OF A NORMAL BASE, YOU KNOW?

THIS IS BEING MEASURED OFF A DIFFICULT SITUATION WITH A LOT OF FEDERAL INTERVENTION.

THAT ALL SAID, YOU KNOW, GROWTH, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO SEE GROWTH.

BUT THAT'S JUST ONE INDICATOR.

THE GDP NUMBER.

AND NEW JERSEY'S SEEN SOME GROWTH AS WELL.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS THE OTHER BIG INDICATOR, AND AS STACIE NOTED, IN NEW JERSEY, WE'RE BEHIND THE FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND OUR PACE OF RECOVERY, WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT OVER THE LAST YEAR, BUT OUR PACE OF JOB RECOVERY HAS TRAILED THE PACE OF THE NATIONAL RECOVERY AS WELL.

NOW, THERE'S ROOM STILL TO GO ON THAT, BUT ONE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE IS WE CAN SOMETIMES HAVE TWO ECONOMIES, RIGHT?

I MEAN, THERE'S HOW PEOPLE -- PROFESSIONALS, UNFORTUNATELY, GOT IMPACTED, THEY CAN WORK FROM HOME AND MAYBE NOT HAVE FELT THE SAME PINCH THAT PEOPLE IN THE LOWER WAGE POSITIONS AND LOWER INCOME BRACKETS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE RECOVERY THAT STILL HAS TO HAPPEN, UNFORTUNATELY, IS AMONG THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THAT RECOVERY THE MOST.

AND SO, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT SAYING, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY'S IN THIS GREAT PLACE.

NEW JERSEY'S HAD A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT OVER THE LAST 12 MONTHS, FOR SURE, WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JOBS OR GDP GROWTH, BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T LOSE SIGHT OF THOSE THAT ARE STILL TRYING TO RECOVER.

>> KATHERINE, SMALL BUSINESS SAYS THEY'RE HURTING FOR STAFF, PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THEIR JOBS.

A LOT OF PLACES EXPERIMENTING WITH AUTOMATION AND RESTAURANTS CLOSING THEIR DINING ROOMS IN FAVOR OF CURBSIDE PICKUP.

WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE?

ARE WE GOING TO LOOK BACK IN A DECADE AND SAY, WOW, THAT WAS A PARADIGM SHIFT BACK IN 2022?

>> RIGHT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE CALLING IT THE GREAT RESIGNATION FOR A REASON, RIGHT?

WE'RE JUST SEEING SO MANY PEOPLE LEAVE THEIR JOBS, PARTICULARLY IN THE SERVICE SECTOR WHERE PEOPLE ARE KIND OF JUST FED UP AND THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THAT THEY'RE DONE.

THIS HAS BEEN REALLY HARD FOR BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, AS YOU NOTED, WITH STAFFING.

YOU KNOW, AND THEY FACE A LOT OF OTHER CHALLENGES.

ONE BIG ISSUE IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY HAS BEEN TAX INCREASES AS A RESULT OF THE DEPLETING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND, SO THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RELIEF FROM THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT BUSINESSES JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO STAFF, YOU KNOW, TABLES.

I REMEMBER I WAS AT A RESTAURANT RECENTLY, AND THERE WAS ONE SERVER COVERING, LIKE, FIVE TABLES AND SHE HAD JUST STARTED, HADN'T BEEN A WAITRESS BEFORE, AND I THINK THAT'S EM WHBLEMATIF WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN RESTAURANTS EVERYWHERE.

>> YEAH.

JOHN, YOU'VE BEEN TO MORE PENSION BOARD MEETINGS THAN ANYBODY ON THIS PANEL FOR SURE.

I SAW A REPORT THIS WEEK THAT SAYS THE FUND MADE UP OF MONEY FROM PUBLIC EMPLOYEES PENSIONS IS UNDERPERFORMING.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO STATE RESIDENTS?

>> WELL, THE THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS PENSIONS IN NEW JERSEY, FOR PUBLIC WORKERS, SO, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME SORT OF GOVERNMENT JOB, ARE FUNDED BY CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THE WORKERS MAKE BY CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THEIR TAXPAYER EMPLOYERS MAKE, AND THEN ALL OF THE ASSETS ARE INVESTED IN, YOU KNOW, STOCKS AND BONDS AND OTHER TYPES OF INVESTMENTS TO HOPEFULLY GAIN SOME YEAR OVER YEAR GROWTH, AND SO WHEN WE SAY UNDERPERFORMING, THEY HAVE AN ASSUMED RATE, WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT THEY THINK THESE INVESTMENTS WILL GENERATE ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IN TERMS OF EXTRA REVENUE, SO IT EASES THE BURDEN A LITTLE BIT ON EMPLOYEES AND TAXPAYERS, AND LAST FISCAL YEAR, WE HAD A BANNER YEAR FOR INVESTMENT RETURNS, ALMOST 30% YEAR OVER YEAR, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN THE TWO DECADES A RECORD.

THEY'VE COME BACK DOWN TO EARTH, ACCORDING TO THE MOST RECENT FIGURES THAT WERE REVIEWED.

THESE THINGS TEND TO GO UP AND DOWN OVER THE FIVE AND TEN-YEAR RUNS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RIGHT AROUND THAT ASSUMED RIGATE.

IN FACT, OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, ANNUALIZED, IT'S ABOVE IT.

SO WITH NUMBERS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM IN A MILLION WAYS AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE SHORT-TERM, THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN, BUT THE BIG PICTURE, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF INVESTMENT RETURNS, YOU KNOW, THE PENSION FUND IS STILL IN A DEEP HOLE BECAUSE THE STATE DID NOT FUND IT PROPERLY FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, BUT IN TERMS OF THE LATEST INVESTMENT RETURNS, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BELOW THE ASSUMED RATE, BUT STILL HOLDING ON IN THE BLACK.

>> JOHN, STACIE, KATHERINE, GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

THANKS FOR HANGING OUT WITH US TODAY.

THAT WAS "ROUNDTABLE" FOR THE WEEK.

THANKS ALSO TO SENATOR VIN GOPAL.

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I'M DAVID CRUZ.

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