good evening and welcome to PBS for Wayne.

>> We have a great show for you tonight and you will if you watch us regularly will know my guest this evening.

It's Brian Nugent and I'm going to introduce him to you in just a moment an attorney.

So our topic tonight will be a legal one if you have questions that you would like for us to delve into, we will take your phone calls here at (969) 27 twenty .

And by the way, I do want to tell you if you live out of the two six zero area code , just put a one eight eight in front of that and it'll be toll free for you as you make your phone call here to get your legal questions answered.

>> OK, Brian Nugent, this is the gentleman right here.

>> He's been on regularly with LIFE Ahead and you always get such a wonderful response, Brian.

>> And we get a lot of phone calls above the phone call.

I know because we want to talk about what you want to know.

>> So that's that's the agenda now we have kind of an overall topic tonight that we're going to be dealing with in terms of asset protection and benefits.

>> But again, Brian as an attorney will be happy to handle any questions you might have.

>> Oh, by the way, Brian, just maybe not to make you nervous, but I have to attorney three attorney relatives watching tonight.

>> All right.

That I hope I do well but they're not elder law so so you can be an expert on that for us this evening.

>> So hello to all the Thompsons out there.

All right.

Let's talk about elder law because that's his specialty.

What's what is elder law and why is that different than other types of law?

>> So elder law when we're talking about that, it's not only involves estate planning and planning for passing your wealth to the next generation whatever level of wealth you may have, but it's also about protecting assets during your lifetime typically as you age although could be for folks that have some type of a special needs or some type of issues such as that that we want to provide for and and protect assets for and get benefits for .

But elder law is generally working with folks that are of a certain age and we're wanting to protect our assets and if if it's appropriate for them to get benefits for them as well benefits typically from sources like Medicaid or Veteran's Administration to make sure that they can be very successful as they age they want to remain in place, that we want services for them in their own home services for them if they need to go to an assisted living facility, independent living facility, memory care unit, something like that.

>> Yeah.

All right.

I have to ask you a little more specifically I noticed you kind of just slipped in the phrase for people of a certain age.

>> Did you notice that he got away with that?

Yeah.

So at what age would people start to look at asset protection?

>> Great question.

I think that typically if I can get clients to protect assets sooner rather than later it's to their benefit.

It's never too late to protect assets even if somebody is in a nursing home or a memory care unit they're either going in and they hadn't planned in advance or they've been in there for a period of time.

We still can protect assets but but honestly, Sandy , if I can get clients in late 60s, early 70s and start protecting their assets at that time, that's really a very good key spot for me.

It's kind of a sweet age.

However, if I have clients that are let's say farmers, they may be younger than that late 60s, early 70s but they're farmers and they want to make sure that they're protecting their farm.

They don't they want to be able to pass it to the next generation.

They may in their 50s be coming in to me and talking about how do I protect the farm to make sure I don't lose the farm.

I also see clients that have like cottages that they those are state properties and they want to leave them in the family for generations.

So they may come to me at an earlier age than that late 60s or early 70s which is that as I said, the sweet spot for asset protection in advance.

>> Got it.

OK, we have a phone call already man on the phone tonight we have Amanda.

>> Thank you so much, Amanda for watching us here on LIFE Ahead.

>> And what would you like to ask our attorney here this evening?

I would like to know if it is better for my husband and I to file separately or as a couple on our income taxes.

>> OK, Brian, how can you address that now?

Well, first of all, Amanda, would you consider yourself a senior or no?

>> Oh, definitely.

Definitely.

OK then I'm assuming then your husband is as well.

>> Well yeah.

So I have to preface my answer by telling you I'm not a CPA.

However what I would say generally is yes, it's it's typically better for married folks to file jointly rather than separately.

There are some additional credits that you can receive if you're filing jointly.

So in a very brief response, Amanda, I would suggest that first of all generally yes, you file jointly with your spouse, you get additional credits.

However, the real person that I would encourage you to speak to is your CPA or your tax preparer and that's their ask their opinion of it and typically with their software at the software that they use to do tax returns, they're going to be able to run it two ways for you and let you know which is to which to your benefit filing separately or filing jointly.

>> OK, thank you for helping Amanda and Amanda I might say as well since you mentioned both you and your husband are seniors you might want to pay closer attention to the advice that Brian is giving us here this evening in terms of asset protection, I'm guessing you probably have a lot of assets that you'd like to protect.

>> So what kind of advice would you give Amanda and her husband?

>> Well, if we're talking generally when I think about protecting assets, I think about that in two buckets.

One I think about pre pre planning to protect those assets and that's what I'm saying as I was responding to your question earlier, Sandy , late 60s, early 70s preplanning as best I like to see those assets and very unique types of trusts for about five years or more before are looking for benefits before your health declines and you may need help inside the home or you may need to go to a facility or something like that.

We want those assets to be protected.

The other extreme is that that crisis planning so it's never too late to protect assets.

So regardless of your age if if there's a substantial change in your circumstances you didn't expect to be homebound but you are and you it isn't appropriate for you to leave your home.

It's it's actually still appropriate for you to be there with just a little bit of help.

>> I still may be protecting assets assets on your behalf at normally if you're a married like Amandas or married, I typically can protect all of the assets if one the spouse spouse is needing those benefits, needing those services in the home or going to a facility if you're a single person generally I say I can protect at least 50 percent if not more and that depends upon your level of income and then the cost of the care that you're needing at that time.

So my recommendation to Amanda and her husband if you are thinking about protecting assets, you're thinking about money and you are based upon your question regarding taxes, I would encourage you to speak to an elder law attorney, talk to them about this is where we are.

This is what we want to get accomplished.

These are concerns that we have.

I always like to say to folks when they're coming in speaking with me, speaking with other attorneys don't go in with an agenda.

Don't don't don't go into the attorney saying this is I need you to do this, this or this for me.

Explain the situation, explain the finances.

You have explained the assets that you have what you want to get accomplished and then listen to that person and allow that person that that person that's an expert in their field to give you advice and recommendations about what needs to take place.

>> Sometimes it's not quite as complicated as you thought it was going to be.

Other times it's maybe a little bit more complicated than you were anticipating to pick up on something Cindy said earlier Cindy talked about having a lot of assets or do you must you're asking your question regarding taxes.

So I think this is a very relative situation.

I don't think you should worry about how much you have in the bank.

It's completely relative.

So one person feels that they have a lot and then to somebody else that isn't a lot.

Somebody feels that they don't have much and a majority of people would say my gosh, you do have a lot.

So the amount that you have is really irrelevant.

It's what you want to it's what you have especially as her aging or possibly not working anymore.

>> That's what you have.

It's difficult to grow that.

So we want to protect what you have regardless of the number of zeros behind that in your account.

>> OK, all right.

That's a great answer to a lot of complicated issues and again our number is (969) 27 twenty if you want to give us the call and I know Brian that you know that you're licensed to practice in a number of states including Indiana, Florida, Ohio and Michigan and Michigan.

>> Yeah.

I'm just curious are laws about the same in every other state say if you were counseling someone from I don't know Colorado, Arizona perhaps you know, would you be giving him the same advice?

So I'm unable to answer those questions because I'm not licensed in those states so I can answer questions regarding the four states in which I'm licensed.

What I will say about programs benefit programs like Medicaid is it is a federal program.

So it's the federal government doles out money to each different state and then each state has its own rules regarding how they're going to use that money for the citizens of the state.

>> And I will say generally there the laws and regulations in regard to those Medicaid benefits are similar state to state but not identical.

So I always caution folks when you're reading online and you're saying oh I've read this article and this is what I should be doing or that's what I should be doing, I caution people for a few things number one.

>> And what state was the article written because it could be different state to state how that affects you and number two and what year was that article written?

>> Was it written recently?

Was it Boiko years ago?

Laws and regulations change on a regular basis and at different times during the course of the year.

So not that it's a bad thing to try and educate yourself by reading things online but make sure that you're looking at the source that you're reading and you may bring those questions to your attorney or elder law attorney when you're speaking with them about elder law protecting assets or state planning, et cetera.

>> That makes good sense and I know it may be a lot of seniors are used to reading articles in like AARP magazine, things like that.

>> Will they being a recognized magazine, will they automatically have things that will apply to everybody or do you have to observe there where it was written and what a date was?

>> Sure.

When you're looking at journals that are written on a national basis, they're going to be written in a very nebulous general way.

OK, so if you're looking for specific details, those articles probably aren't going to give you specific details but they may be having a very general overview of there is a process to protect your assets in advance.

There is a process to protect assets if you didn't plan in advance there is a way to get benefits they may generally select from state to state.

Gosh, the state provides these benefits that states provides those benefits and they might reference also trends that we're seeing in our industry elder law community.

Even my trade journals that I read will select different cases from different jurisdictions etc.

and might spot this is the way that things are trending or this is what's happening in Indiana.

This is what's happening in Colorado to your earlier reference.

So I don't think it's a bad thing to read those articles.

>> I would encourage people to do it but just keep that in mind.

Keep it in mind and seek out someone's advice that's in your state that's working in that area.

So there are people there are attorneys that practice elder law, their attorneys that practice estate planning.

So but not every estate planning attorney practices elder law.

So you're going to want to make sure that when you're speaking with someone that they actually are regularly engaged in the practice of elder law.

It's unique from estate planning.

So every elder law attorney does estate planning but not necessarily every estate planning attorney does elder.

>> It's not good or bad.

They're just different areas of the law.

They're very distinct.

I understand and I love that even you know, in the area of law we have so many specialties now as opposed to twenty or thirty years ago.

>> You've got your three family members watching.

That's right.

That's right.

And I have different specialties.

>> You got it.

OK, all right.

Let's talk about assets.

What we mean by assets and we used that word a number of times.

Is it just money?

Is it property?

Is it your car?

>> What is sure anything that has a value OK so things that we think of an asset as real estate your home is an asset money that's in your checking account as an asset but also things like annuities something a life insurance policy that has a cash value that's an asset any of those things that they're not if they're not protected in advance a program like Veterans Administration and or a program like Medicaid is going to be looking to that and they're going to say hey, you've got some money there if you're depending upon different thresholds in those two different worlds VA and Medicaid.

But if you're above that threshold, they're going to want that you will be denied benefits until you've protected that or are sheltered in some way.

>> I am curious about this.

We're talking about assets here .

>> Let's say that you've accumulated a number of different types of assets whether it's you know, again your home, your an IRA, different investments that you might have and maybe you have some other things like maybe you have a light cottage perhaps or a farm or whatever.

>> Should you be naming beneficiaries on those properties or how would you handle protecting those?

>> So naming a beneficiary in and of itself that doesn't necessarily protect the asset.

So it's kind of a two prong response what I will say about naming a beneficiary and the asset the benefit is it skips probate and immediately goes to that person.

>> However, if you've written a will or you've written a trust and you're saying I want this money to go to my grandchildren but my grandchildren are to receive it until age twenty five for example or I want this money to be used only for their education if you name a child or a grandchild rather on an asset as the beneficiary it automatically goes to them.

>> So you have this beautifully written will you have this beautifully written trust in which you said it's to be used for a particular person or a purpose rather or they get until a certain age by naming them as a beneficiary it skips all of that and goes right to them.

So if your grandchild for example, is 14 at the time that you pass away, they may not be getting the money at fourteen.

>> Their parent may be managing it as a guardian but at age 18 they've got the money so they've got twenty thousand dollars fifty thousand one hundred thousand dollars whatever that number is.

You anticipate them getting it at twenty five they now have eighteen so there may be a little less mature.

>> So while I there are instances when we want to use specific beneficiary designations I'm always very cautious about that and make sure that it fits in very neatly to the estate plan so that we don't have we're not circumventing what you really want to have happen.

>> Well, am I to understand if you have somebody named as a beneficiary but you have different wording in your will the beneficiary takes precedence.

>> Exactly.

Wills skips your will.

OK, yeah.

And so you don't always want that.

It may be for example if you're giving all of your assets to your spouse fine.

I've designated my spouse as the beneficiary understandable.

But I may then want it to go to my children and again I want to do legacy planning so I want my children to receive money at ages twenty five thirty forty.

>> I can do all of that in a will.

I can do all of that in a trust but with that beneficiary designation it skips so we have to be a little cautious with that.

>> All right.

That makes sense.

We have another phone call.

This by the way is from Lou and here's the last question.

He says Are there any services for seniors to help pay for services and writing a will or a trust if you can't pay for an attorney program?

>> Yep.

So typically there's a program in Indiana called Write A Will.

Write a will.

Yep.

And a foundations local community foundations are typically sponsoring this, right?

Well programs and volunteers like myself some other attorneys I've done it in the past and we'll do it again the future volunteer their time to write wills and state plans for folks.

>> How do you find out about it, Brian?

Well, they advertise in the newspaper.

They advertise online.

Right.

A will is one program.

There are also services for folks that as you're saying have limited resources.

You can go online and you can find a volunteer lawyer programs, those types of things that will help you with your estate planning.

So most definitely there are programs out there that will assist you in doing that and I would caution sometimes I'll see clients come into my office where they've pulled something offline and they've written it up and they're saying, you know, I didn't want to spend the money or I thought I didn't have enough to actually write a formal bill.

I didn't have enough to actually do a power of attorney health care rep.

So I pulled this offline.

Be very cautious with that.

These are very powerful documents and they can really affect you during your lifetime and your family after you passed your loved ones after you passed.

So I would encourage you to speak with a professional made very cautious about just pulling something offline or going to an office store and they have something on the shelf.

>> Be careful about that.

Yeah.

And you know, it's like I think we're kind of conditioned to think if it's on the Internet it's true but it's not it's not whether it's the articles or read or writing your will online and this is your life's work.

>> This is your life savings so you don't want to get to risk it.

>> Yeah, exactly right.

That makes sense.

And truly if you're working with reputable counsel, they're not going to put you into something that isn't appropriate for you generally in my industry lawyers although sometimes we get a bad rap we want to do a good job for our clients.

We want things to be appropriate for them.

We want it to be a good fit.

I feel like what I do is I educate my clients.

That's what I do.

I'm educating them and then they make an educated decision based upon the information that I'm providing to them with the facts that they came to me with.

>> OK, that makes sense and that's why we do this show like they had Brian as you know because you've been on so many times and we try to give you information and education that will help you in making your decisions in your LIFE Ahead, whether it's how to protect your assets or sometimes it's a medical issue that we talk about.

>> But that's our goal and I think I think we do a pretty good job of it.

>> Yes.

OK, now we talked about your assets and what they are.

>> You mentioned that there are benefits that you can often receive and I know you are what's the right word?

Especially licensed with the Veterans Administration.

>> So I wanted to ask what are assets and how can that be protected through the VA?

So I'm an accredited Veterans Administration attorney.

>> That's true.

OK, I'm going to speak generally about both VA and Medicaid do yes.

So both programs people are surprised to learn this both programs will give you direct care in your home if you qualify for it.

So when I say direct care I'm home health care, is that what you mean?

>> So a home health care is different.

>> I'm talking there's a continuum of care.

So what I'm talking about is personal services.

OK, so in Indiana their license is personal service agencies.

Then there's home health care and the physical therapy.

>> But when we think of , personal service agencies, personal services, it's for someone that's needing assistance with activities of daily living.

>> Maybe you just need help getting out of bed in the morning bathing, getting dressed and then you're good to go for the day.

>> Maybe you need help with someone preparing a meal for you in your home so that you have healthy food there at the house.

>> What about transportation to doctor appointments, that sort of thing or a grocery store so we could get services sometimes for that transportation you can actually have meals delivered to your home so that in-home care typically is where folks are starting their health is starting to decline.

Maybe they don't have a strong support network around them or frankly, you know, the children want to be children and don't necessarily want to be a care provider.

So just a little in-home care can go so far with keeping someone healthy and keeping someone in their home.

>> But let's say that that in-home care is no longer appropriate.

>> You need a little bit done enough it's not enough.

So in Allen County there's a program called Paice.

It's a facility off of Lake Avenue here in L.A. County.

You have to be a resident of Allen County to get these benefits.

But it's an amazing facility.

I was just in it a couple of weeks ago.

They have doctors on staff.

They have nurse practitioners that are there.

You can it's not a nursing home.

It's not adult daycare but you can go and engage with other seniors.

>> They have events there.

You can go into the building, into the building.

OK, it's not just them coming to your home.

>> And the wonderful thing about that you're talking about transportation is the PACE program will literally come to your home, picked you up and bring it to the building for two, three or four or five hours, bring you back home.

They'll also arrange for meals in your home, provide care in your home, all of that that continuum of care.

>> So maybe just that that PSA, those personal services weren't enough for you.

You need a little bit more more of a robust environment for yourself.

So as long as it makes sense for you to be at home still and be part of this space program, you'll be able to participate in that going other benefits assisted living facilities.

There are assisted living facilities that take Veterans Administration benefits that take Medicaid benefits and I'm telling you now there are lovely facilities.

There's nothing wrong with them whatsoever regardless of how that is being paid for .

If you're paying for it privately, you're paying for it partially through VA, partially through your income, Medicaid, lovely facilities.

So assisted living facility you think of I need a little bit of assistance so I'm not really able to be at home any more.

>> I need some assistance with activities of daily living.

I want to be in a more controlled environment.

There's typically a common dining room.

There are activities that are planned in the facilities.

>> Maybe you just need more medical care somebody to help monitor your medications that sort of medication reminders all of that happens OK and then going down.

>> So we've talked about in-home care.

We've talked about the PACE program.

We've talked about assisted living facilities.

So if none of those are appropriate for you any longer, it doesn't make sense for you to to remain at home or to remain at the assisted living facility any longer.

Then we may look at a nursing home or a memory care unit.

You don't have to jump immediately to that.

I think oftentimes people have the notion that if I'm looking for these benefits I'm protecting my assets.

You're immediately wanting to put me in a nursing home or that's my next step couldn't be further from the truth.

I would encourage you to get things in place so that you can protect those assets both for your care.

>> Right.

Most definitely.

The money is there.

It's still it's there and can be used for you if need be and but for the next generation as well.

There's nothing inappropriate with that if you can get an excellent level of care the money is there during your lifetime to be used if need be for your benefit and you're able to pass it to the next generation phantasy.

But so those same programs may also pay for your stay at an assisted living rather at a nursing home or a memory care unit always breaks my heart when I hear from a client that oh my gosh, I wish I would have known about this earlier.

We sold mom's farm.

We sold grandma's farm.

We sold they lost everything to the nursing home.

>> They lost everything when grandpa paid for their monthly fee and it doesn't have to be like that asset protection and that's what we've been talking about tonight and and Brian has spoken about that several times here on LIFE Ahead.

>> I want to thank you so much.

Thank you so my pleasure.

I want to thank those of you that are watching and the people that have called in tonight with their questions.

>> We always enjoy and appreciate that next week we'll be right here where you won't be I will be right here at seven thirty on Wednesday night every week we have different guests and different topics and Brian will be back in fact I think you're back next month.

Right?

So last last Wednesday of the month I believe.

Good night to all of you.

Stay safe and stay healthy