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(regal music) - [Announcer] WyomingPBS, Wyoming Public Media, and Central Wyoming College present Election 2022: The Democratic U.S. House Primary Debate, live from The Little Theater on the campus of Central Wyoming College.

- Good evening and welcome.

My name is Craig Bluemanshine.

We're here tonight for the Wyoming 2022 Primary Election Democratic U.S. House Candidates debate.

Again, it's live from Central Wyoming College.

I'll serve as both a moderator and a panelist for tonight's debate.

And I want to note that this debate is being broadcast live on WyomingPBS as well as Wyoming Public Media, and also streamed on our station's YouTube and Facebook channels.

All three Democratic candidates for Wyoming's lone U.S. House seat in Congress are here tonight, And I would like to introduce them to you now.

First, to my immediate left is Steve Helling.

In the center is Meghan Jensen.

And to her left is Lynnette GreyBull.

We do have two panelists who have joined me this evening and will also ask questions of the candidates, and I would like to introduce them to you.

To my far left is Steve Peck, the longtime newspaper publisher of "The Ranger" in Riverton and current public affairs producer for WyomingPBS.

And in the center here is Tennessee Watson.

She is the state desk editor from WyoFile.

As in past debates, every candidate will get an opportunity to answer every question that we ask them this evening, in what again we hope will be a very thoughtful and civil debate.

Candidates have not seen the questions that we will ask them.

And we randomly drew the order that you are seeing them on stage just moments ago tonight.

The candidates have been briefed and have accepted the rules for tonight's debate, that it does include civil discourse.

And we look forward to a good, thoughtful civil discussion.

Well candidates, if you are ready, we're ready to begin asking you questions.

The first question will be asked of Mr. Helling by Steve Peck.

- Candidates.

Good evening.

Representative Liz Cheney holds Wyoming's only U.S. House seat.

She's running for reelection, but she sparked controversy within the Republican Party due to her impeachment vote against Donald Trump and her high-profile participation in the January 6th Inquiry.

What's your view of Cheney's activity in this regard, and does the division within the party provide an opening for a Democrat?

- Thank you.

I wanna start tonight by saying thank you to WyomingPBS for this opportunity to participate in this debate.

I certainly am opposed to the January 6th Committee.

I think that Ms. Cheney has not been loyal to the voters of Wyoming who put her in that position.

If we look at how the January 6th Committee was put together, the Republicans, as the minority party, were asked to submit five names and they did.

In an almost unprecedented move, Nancy Pelosi rejected two of those names and said pick two more.

Now, my understanding is that had never happened before in the House Committee process.

And the Republicans said, "No, we're not going to do that.

And fact is, we won't have anyone on that committee."

And at that point, Nancy Pelosi selected Liz Cheney and one other, Adam Kinzinger, to be on the committee so that there would be some representation by the minority party.

And both of them agreed to do that.

As a result, Representative Cheney was censored by the Republican Party.

Our Republican Party here in Wyoming basically made a symbolic move that said she's no longer a Republican.

I think it is a inquisition against another political party.

I'm very opposed to it.

It's done in secret and the there's no due process.

There's no cross-examination.

- Thank you Mr. Helling.

Candidates, I'll let you know, when you see the yellow light in front of you, it means you have 15 seconds to go.

And when it turns red, that obnoxious beep will go off and you can complete your sentence.

So Ms. Jensen, your turn.

- Welcome.

Thank you, WyomingPBS, for holding us tonight.

And I appreciate the opportunity to do this, and everybody in the audience and at home watching.

I disagree with my opponent to my right.

I believe that Liz Cheney is doing what she is supposed to be doing.

It is her job to hold her oath and be on a part of this committee.

I also believe that she is part of what has happened on January 6th.

She has plenty of policies that she has put forth on behalf of the Republican Party that are not gonna go away, even if she continues being on that committee.

She has pushed back and changed her belief in LGBTQ rights and public lands.

But the rest of her party will not change their mind.

So again, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with my opponent and believe that she's doing her job, but I believe Wyoming deserves a lot better.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Jensen.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Yes.

Good evening, Wyoming.

And I wanna thank WyomingPBS as well for organizing this debate.

I'm always honored to be able to speak anywhere, especially in something as a Democratic debate.

As a candidate in the state of Wyoming, in a red state, mind you, and let's be honest, a person like me who looks like me, who comes from an Indigenous community like myself usually don't have these platforms to come and speak to issues concerning policy.

So first of all, when it comes to Liz Cheney, I don't wanna take anything away from what she has done in the January 6th Committee.

It was honorable.

It was the right thing to do.

And she did what she felt was right.

And I honor her for that.

However, I wanna say a contrast to that.

Let's remember, when she was in office, that she cited with Donald Trump 92% of the time.

Her voting record displays her siding with Trump, siding against tribal sovereignty, siding against the VAWA Act, siding against the Not Invisible Act or the Savanna's Act which I'm a big advocate for, for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons by not voting.

So I have a lot of other things that I could say about her representation for Wyoming, but also her representation for Native Americans.

But I will say she did the right thing when it came to the January 6th insurrection.

But Wyoming deserves a better representation moving forward.

- Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Mr. Helling, you have an opportunity for a rebuttal here.

- I certainly agree that Wyoming deserves better, with the two women to my left.

But what Liz Cheney has done, and she tries to, well, she said if you're loyal to President Trump, you can't be loyal to the Constitution.

And what does she mean when she says you can't be loyal to the Constitution?

Is she calling everyone who voted for President Trump a traitor?

I think it's an outrageous statement.

I think she needs to be sent home to Virginia.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Helling.

All right, the next question will be for Ms. Jensen from Tennessee Watson.

- Good evening.

What issues facing Wyoming are misunderstood or overlooked on Capitol Hill?

And how will you work to prioritize Wyoming if elected?

- Wyoming for far too long has had representation in Congress that has not put forth the values of working people in Wyoming, a state that is heavily revolved around working people.

And I'm talking about people that work with their hands.

I'm talking about people who work in our schools, in our doctors' offices.

And a lot of these folks aren't being represented in Congress.

In particular, in my experiences in Wyoming, I have been in food service and in the school district serving kids.

A lot of these professions do not make a livable wage.

I believe they do deserve a lot better.

And what that's gonna do is also raise the wages around us.

So what we need to do is get a representative in Congress actually from Wyoming who has felt these working persons woes.

And again, we're gonna do that by electing a Democrat to Congress from Wyoming who understands working people's values.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Jensen.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Yeah, actually, I agree with my opponent here on the right.

I'm a big advocate for the working class.

I'm a big advocate for those who knows what, to live a life working hard, eight to five, not being able to meet ends meet, and not being able to do the extra things and luxury things that other elitists and billionaires and millionaires are able to do.

I do believe that we conquer that by electing more Native American candidates, more people from marginalized communities, people of color.

And also bringing people to the table who understands the day-to-day problems that not only Wyomingites face, but Americans face.

So someone who is from elitist and who's from the 1% community cannot speak to the sufferings and the issues that families face day to day in Wyoming.

I think that's misunderstood for Wyoming, because Wyomingites is full of hard workers.

Wyomingites are full of people who are dedicated to their families, to their way of life.

And it's important that you have representation who is able to speak to that and adjust in a way of integrity.

So I would say that that type of representation has not been in the forefront of the state of Wyoming.

- Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Yes, Mr. Jensen.

Or excuse me, Mr. Helling.

- Could you please repeat the question?

- Sure.

- Sure, what issues facing Wyoming are misunderstood or overlooked on Capitol Hill, and how will you work to prioritize Wyoming?

- Well, certainly, I was someone that enjoyed energy independence when we had it.

Inflation is something that affects everyone in this country, including the ranchers and the farmers in Wyoming.

Ranchers and farmers are facing numerous issues.

I understand there are supply chain issues for parts, for equipment, for getting the product to market.

And then of course with the increased energy prices, it makes everything more expensive.

So I would stress energy independence, opening up the energy markets.

I was speaking to someone related to the oil field, and they said that the BLM is out there now, nitpicking and making it a very unpleasant environment.

I think this needs to stop.

I think we need to get stability in the regulations where we don't go from one administration to another where the rules change.

It's just very difficult to run a business.

I think Wyoming's natural resources need to be protected at all costs.

I am actually anti-nuclear, so I would move to phase out nuclear energy, because I understand a demonstration plant is now planned for Kemmerer.

And I think that's really a bad idea.

Using sodium as a coolant has failed on multiple occasions.

And thank you.

(buzzer beeping) - Mr. Helling, thank you.

Ms. Jensen, an opportunity for a rebuttal.

- I actually would like to look into the use of nuclear.

I would research a little bit further into what we're gonna do with it and who's gonna be in charge of that in Wyoming.

That's our legislature, partly, and we need to be watching what they're doing.

And so I would like to approach our energy with a more holistic approach, rather than just one or two or three different energy sources.

- Thank you, Ms. Jensen.

Ms. GreyBull, I'll ask the next question.

What is it that Wyoming doesn't understand about Democrats?

- One thing I don't like to do, especially when it comes to politics, only because I've worked on legislation before, both on state, on a federal level.

And one thing that I do when I sit down and look at legislation and come it through a fine-tooth comb, is it's not a red or a blue thing.

It's something that affects, it should always come from a human level, a human level where you understand the type of lifestyle, the environment, the social economics, and what is happening in this area that you're making legislation to make a change of.

All legislation and all policy change should go right back to the focus of the people: the people.

Not the millionaires, not the billionaires, but the people who work eight-to-five jobs, the one who keeps our economy running.

And that's to me is the focus on how to create transformable, honest, and truthful policy change.

Does it make sense to have people who are representative of not who looks like us, or who is not from our community, or who doesn't even live in the state?

So I think that representation is very important in how to move forward in that, in a progressive way, as understanding the day-to-day needs of people that you live and your neighbors.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Mr. Helling?

- In terms of what the people of Wyoming may not know or understand about the Democratic Party, I had the opportunity to speak with Joe Barbuto.

He is the Democratic Chair.

I attended the morning session of the Democratic State Convention.

I spoke with Mr. Barbuto, and he got on the stage and he talked about the Democratic Party.

And he said that it's very difficult to be a Democrat in the state of Wyoming, but he said it was the right thing to do.

I have some very conservative values so that I don't completely fit in with the Democratic Party.

And there seemed to be two viewpoints that are followed by the Democratic Party.

One that simply wants to message and another that wants to be more centrist, that would have a chance of winning.

Mr. Barbuto was very pleasant and civil.

And as I've run, even with many dissenting opinions to the party line, I have not received any flack.

No one has tried to silence me, and I have appreciated the Democratic parties giving me a platform to speak.

And everything has been civil.

And even though I wouldn't say it's overly friendly, the Democratic Party has, at least for me, included inclusivity and listened to someone with dissenting opinions.

And I appreciate that.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Helling.

Ms. Jensen?

- Could you please repeat the question?

- Sure, what is it that Wyomingites don't understand about Democrats?

- I don't think it's a problem that Wyomingites don't understand Democrats.

I think it's they're flat out just not listening to us.

I believe that the Wyoming Republican Party might need to...

Sorry, I'm gonna retract that.

I believe our voters need to start looking into what the Republican Party is actually putting forth in policies and how it's hurting our working families.

So basically, they're just not listening to us.

We have solutions, but we're just being told no or just completely ignored.

The other party, the Republican Party does have some solutions, but usually it's just a no, we're not doing that.

So again, I don't think, they're just not paying attention to us.

And so it's about time they start listening 'cause it's time to work.

- Thank you, Ms. Jansen.

Ms. GreyBull, 30 more seconds if you would like.

- Yeah, and just to reiterate what I started with, is anytime that it comes to any policy change, you have to have the conscience and the ethics to understand that it's gonna affect day-to-day people, and not just in this state of Wyoming but across the nation.

And so I think what sometimes is misunderstood by Democrats is that it's not a white or black thing.

It's a thing where we think about people, we think about humanity, we think about peace and we think about preservation.

And that's usually what's misunderstood about Democrats.

- Thank you very much.

Mr. Helling, this question is for you now from Tennessee Watson.

- Market and policy forces outside of Wyoming's borders continue to chip away at the state's fossil fuel industries and their ability to support good paying jobs and help fund schools and other vital services.

What should the federal government be doing to help Wyoming and its communities, as Governor Mark Gordon has put it, survive and thrive in a transition away from fossil fuels?

- Well, I think that I take exception to the transition away from fossil fuels.

I don't think it should be done as quickly as it's being done.

I've joked to people about being fairly intelligent, scoring better than 29 out of every 30 people on the bar exam when I took it in 2002.

But I know some pretty smart people.

I understand that they are working on Earth-cooling technologies, but that's not discussed very much.

Because when you discuss Earth-cooling technologies, people tend to not talk about reducing the carbon footprint as much, and reducing the use of fossil fuels.

I think our attempt to suddenly move to electric everything is a big mistake.

I think it's devastating our economy.

And so I saw that certain states now are standing up to the banks that have refused to provide financing for the energy companies.

I think certainly that should be something that Wyoming should do.

I am in support of fossil fuels.

I understand that if everything was done under the Paris Climate Accord, and the US did everything and the whole world did everything, the Earth's temperature would still rise 4 1/2 degrees Fahrenheit.

I don't think that leaving fossil fuels is the answer.

Thank you, Mr. Helling.

(clears throat) Excuse me.

Ms. Jensen.

- Well, you might wanna talk to Warren Buffett on this one.

'Cause I believe that a lot of companies are already choosing to do what they want to do 'cause they see what the markets are doing.

And they don't really have control over the world of what's gonna happen.

We are still gonna have fossil fuels around, just very minimally.

Something I did wanna address is about good paying jobs though.

I am impressed with some of the coal companies in Southwest Wyoming where they have formed unions to where workers rights have been valued, and something the oil company has never seen before.

I know that they work hard and they work long hours and they don't get the pay they deserve.

And so we can't always say that these companies are paying a good wage and they're not treating the workers fairly at all.

And so we definitely need to start looking at these markets and what these businesses are doing.

But in fact, we need to be supporting these working folks, working for them in having a place for them to go after this all happens and the companies choose to do what they want to do, not the market.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Jensen.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Wyoming has always been leading in the industries of oil, gas and coal.

And Wyoming is in the perfect position to continue that leadership with renewable energies.

As we look at the oil, gas, and coal industry, If you look at the statistics, in the last three years, it's been declining rapidly.

I have family who works in the oil fields.

I have family who works in the coal industry.

I've talked to families up in Gillette who had lost their houses, lost their mortgages, lost their way of life.

They actually had to move outta state to find other jobs.

And this is not what we want for Wyoming.

We do not want to compel Wyomingites to move outta state for other jobs.

And let's just be honest: renewable energies and transitional energy is the whole pathway, the whole world.

It's globally.

We're moving towards that.

So Wyoming has a position to either move forward in that and continue to lead in that, or they have a chance to fall behind and still try to hold on to dying industries.

And the problem with holding to dying industries?

It doesn't hurt the millionaires and billionaires.

They file bankruptcy.

Workers lose their pension.

They go jump into another project.

But it's the families that are hurt.

It's the people that are hurt.

It's the families that have to suffer through these things.

Let's lead.

Let's move forward.

It's get into renewable energies and the time is now.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Mr. Helling, you have an opportunity for a rebuttal here.

- Sure.

Our power grid is very fragile, and we're having blackouts and rolling blackouts.

And it is not made to power millions of electronic vehicles.

Each electric car battery weighs 960 pounds.

It's estimated there'll be 24 billion pounds of waste.

Electric cars are toxic to build.

They're toxic when they're disposed of.

And we just don't have the energy grid to support it.

- Thank you, Mr. Helling.

And I'll ask the next question of Ms. Jensen.

Ms. Jensen, does Wyoming have an affordable housing crisis?

And if we do, what's your solution to that?

- Wyoming absolutely does have an affordable housing crisis.

And it has been coming along for years now, and there's been inaction again by the Wyoming Legislature.

I believe they are starting to look at it.

What something I can do is when I get into Congress, I will be working with the Wyoming Legislature, bringing everybody to the table, WCDA, ERAP policies.

We're gonna work on all these things together to make sure that people are not homeless in Wyoming, because our temperatures can get far below or far above.

That's not gonna be safe for people.

So basically what I'm saying here is we've had a problem.

We've had these problems.

Now they're so far past to where we need to do something right now.

And that change needs to happen on August 16th or November 8th.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Jensen.

Ms. GreyBull.

- Yes, actually, yes, we absolutely have an affordable housing crisis.

And even more so, it's more detrimental in the Wind River Reservation.

Last year, I had the luxury of working for my tribe, the Northern Arapaho Tribe, to build the Emergency Rental Assistance Program.

In that, I was able to work with the governor's office where we talked about how we were gonna implement the Emergency Rental Assistance Program, not only statewide, but implementing that through the tribes.

And one of the things that we did during this work in collaboration is we looked at the statistics for affordable housing.

We looked at some of the statistics when it comes to transitional housing for those who need those type of services.

And we also looked at hotels and other options for families or individuals to find residency.

For one, Wyoming needs a needs assessment statewide on this issue, including the tribes.

Our last affordable housing needs assessment is over 12 years old.

Also, again, this is something that needs to be addressed statewide, but also, it's an issue tribally because we have three, four generations in one household on the reservation.

It's something that we've constantly been struggling with.

We've had no representation in that manner, which could be done on a federal level.

So anyhow, what I'm saying here is that affordable housing for Wyomingites should be a priority for the next candidate who is elected.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Mr. Helling?

- I think affordable housing issues prevail across this nation.

I understand there's a 4 million house shortage.

And with interest rates going up, housing affordability going down, it just exacerbates the problem.

I don't know that there's any easy answer.

Obviously, we need to build more housing, and that would provide many jobs.

Section 8 housing perhaps needs to be expanded.

We certainly have a homeless population problem.

And that exists in every big city that I know of.

Some people just don't want to work.

They don't want to have a home.

Some people are happy living on the street, but it creates a disaster for our big cities.

And I don't know that there's any easy answers.

I certainly would encourage education, drug treatment.

Many of the homeless people have drug problems, mental illness problems.

It's a very complicated problem.

And we need to provide services to those people to help them want to get off the street, want to work.

We don't want to incentivize not working by paying more in unemployment compensation than someone could make working.

- Thank you very much, Mr. Helling.

Ms. Jensen, 30 more seconds if you would like.

- I'd like to push back against the statement that people don't wanna work.

I believe that people do essentially wanna work.

They want what's best for themselves and their families.

Sometimes there aren't any social programs out there available, and if they are, they're months behind.

And so people do wanna work.

They wanna do what's best for themselves and their families.

But if they don't have the resources such as childcare or a place to live or food to eat, it's gonna be really hard to hold a job.

- Thank you, Ms. Jensen.

Candidates, we're actually right on schedule.

And this is the time in the debate where we're gonna change things up just a little bit and have what we call a lightning round.

We're gonna offer one or short phrase topics to you.

Each of you will have 20 seconds to respond.

There'll be no rebuttal in this part of the debate.

So the first lightning round question for Ms. GreyBull will come from Mr. Peck.

- Crossover voting in Wyoming primary elections.

- I, myself as a voter, I cannot vote against my values.

I stand on my values.

I've been an advocate for over 10 years.

I fight to the core.

I myself as a voter, and I can only speak for myself, I can't go against my own values for a candidate who does not stand and hold my own values.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Helling?

- Ms. GreyBull has been quoted as saying that if she were not running in this election, she would cross over and become a Republican and vote for Liz Cheney.

So I don't understand her answer.

I think crossover voting is allowed.

I mean, and I support it.

Someone should be able to vote for whoever they want to vote.

If they want to use their vote opposing someone, they should be able to do that.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Helling.

Ms. GreyBull, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to respond to that in just a moment.

But Ms. Jensen, your response to crossover voting.

- When we're talking about crossover voting, it's really just voting.

So when people are asking to take away that right, that voting right that we have, it's basically saying they don't have a right to vote.

And I am completely against that.

We have a problem here in Wyoming, where there aren't enough people voting.

On the average, 50% of Wyoming does not even show up to our general elections.

- Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull, would you like to respond to Mr. Helling's accusation?

- I absolutely will.

I will go ahead and quote verbatim exactly what I said in that interview.

I never said I would file as a Republican.

I never said I would do any cross-voting.

What I said was if Democrats choose to cross over and vote for Liz Cheney, quote-unquote, I said, "I would rather go against and personally enjoy going against Liz Cheney."

It was a war cry.

It wasn't a statement of crossover voting.

- [Craig] All right, the next lightning round topic for Mr. Helling from Tennessee Watson.

- Drought.

- Well, climate change, clearly the world is becoming warmer.

Whether it's manmade, whether it's from solar activity, no one knows for sure.

I think we should err on the side of caution and protect our planet.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Jensen?

- Climate change is very real.

But we have plenty of very intelligent people who are working on these solutions, and we need to start listening to the folks where we're having science-based solutions here.

We need to promote that.

We need to support it and work even harder getting these folks to work on these issues.

That includes water.

And that's pretty much all I have.

Just listen to the folks who know what they're doing.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Wyoming, vote for a candidate who is gonna protect your water.

Who's gonna understand the detrimental of climate change.

What it means to have water 10 to 20, 50, 100 years from now.

You don't have a candidate on the ballot who's able to do that at this point on the Republican side.

However, it's imperative that as Wyoming and for us to have the water that we do and the resources that we do, that we have a candidate who stands up for climate change.

- Thank you, Ms. GreyBull.

Ms. Jensen you'll have the first crack at this topic: school choice.

- I believe that the privatization of our public schools is a very bad idea.

And anything that's essential service such as that should not be privatized.

Education should not be for profit.

Children need a place to go.

Families need their kids to be in a place where they feel safe.

And school of choice is not gonna happen if you're privatizing it.

What they're gonna do is they're gonna spend money to make money.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull?

- In regards to that question, I feel like, I've lived in different realms.

I lived in a urban setting and I lived in of course here in a rural setting.

Charter schools is actually pretty good because they're able to dictate their own funding more towards the students and more towards activities.

But private schools, on the other hand, it's a whole nother conversation.

I think that's for elitists and not for everyday people.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Helling.

- I support, fully support school choice.

Parents should be able to choose where their children go to school.

But more importantly, when you have school choice, you have competition.

And competition leads to improvement.

So I fully support school choice.

- Thank you, all.

I'll also toss out the next lightning round topic to Ms. GreyBull.

Gas prices.

- Yes, so inflation.

Well, first of all, the US government and our country does not control the price of oil or gas.

However, what I do believe we can do is we can transition our country into investing into domestic manufacturers.

That would help not the economy, but it also will help with the overall prices with gas.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Helling?

- Energy independence is very important.

It's been destroyed by the current administration and by people like Liz Cheney and the January 6th Committee.

A strong America makes for a safer world.

By this January 6th Committee, we are showing divisiveness and weakness.

And that emboldens people like President Putin of Russia.

And Liz Cheney has played her part in that.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Jensen.

- As a consumer, there's the competitive edge there where you are gonna find the cheapest gas you possibly can't find.

And also, we could use vehicles that are gonna use less gas.

On another note, when these companies are making the profits they are, what they're doing is they're actually taking wages away from people.

And I'm just gonna leave it at that.

- Thank you very much.

The next lightning round topic from Steve Peck for Mr. Helling.

- Federal infrastructure funds.

- Well, President Biden has said build back better.

The Democrats have passed a bill, I think $739 billion, and they're calling it a cut because they had wanted $2 trillion.

The money needs to be there, but we need to spend responsibly.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Jensen?

- When we're getting money for the federal government, and this includes the infrastructure package, what voters in Wyoming are gonna wanna do is they're gonna wanna look towards their state legislature and see how they're spending it: if it's going to where it needs to go or it's going to someone else who's just gonna pocket it and use it for later.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Federal infrastructure is imperative on moving states but also the country forward.

It can be beneficial.

I do agree though, we need to have some more transparency when it comes to state funding and how that's being spent, and making sure it's going to the communities that need it the most.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Our last lightning round topic from Tennessee Watson for Ms. Jensen.

- DACA.

- I have a lot of friends who actually are working on bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, are very instrumental to what our society needs.

We need a clear path to residency here in Wyoming.

We are an immigrant state ourself and also what our country.

These folks are here to make a better life for us along with themselves.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Us as Americans.

If we're not able to stand up for immigrants and those who come from, descend from other countries, which the country is actually built upon, then what are we as a democracy?

What are we as a republic if we're not able to stand up for those who take the jobs and make the economy move forward.

I think we have the hearts and minds to figure out how we can come to an agreeable legislation to move this issue forward.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Helling?

- I fully support some type of path to citizenship for those that have been here since they were little children.

They know nothing else.

And in my experiences, some of these people are very valuable to this country.

This country needs these people, and we definitely need to pass legislation where they can become citizens.

- Thank you.

Okay, candidates, we're gonna turn back to an earlier time and resume longer-form questions here.

The next question will be asked of Ms. GreyBull from Steve Peck.

- In June, the US Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade, leaving abortion issues in the hands of the individual states.

In Congress, Would you support legislation protecting abortion rights under federal law?

- Absolutely.

There was a national poll that polled all women, both from any parties: Independents, Democrats, Republicans, and 65% of Republican women sided with a woman's right to choose.

Quite recently, Kansas did a poll in their state asking their women and their constituents, Would they support removing abortion in the state of Kansas?

And the numbers were there.

Republican numbers were there to make sure that the women had the rights to choose.

Being Indigenous and being Native American, 67 years ago, Native American women, they were not able to, when they had children in hospitals, they were forced, without their knowing, to be not be able to have babies.

I can't think of the word I'm trying to say.

But that was something implemented to Indigenous women who didn't have the right and didn't even have the knowledge that that was happening to them.

And they were no longer being able to have children.

So it's a sensitive topic for me, not only because of my cultural and my heritage background, but also as a woman.

No person should tell you what you should do with your body.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Helling.

- I hate abortion.

I have have been pro-life always, and I will continue to be pro-life.

Killing unborn children is not the answer to anything.

At the same time, I greatly respect women.

I spent nine years on the board of Legal Aid Services in Casper, providing free legal services to the poor.

And that was very often women.

my grandmother had a picture, in 1919 I think it was, marching in a demonstration in St. Louis for women's right to vote.

I admire women with spunk.

I married a woman with spunk.

But killing babies is not the answer.

So in answer to the question, no, I would not support legislation.

I would support actions that provide a safety net for women, that encourage adoption.

I think there's more stigma attached to a woman having a baby and giving that baby up for adoption than there is for a woman having an abortion.

And I think that's wrong.

I think the women that choose to have the baby should be held in high regard.

They've saved a life.

and I hate abortion.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Jensen?

- Let's think of this in terms in Wyoming.

This is really just political grandstanding by the Republican Party, because we actually really didn't have that many abortion services here in Wyoming.

But what it's gonna do to women like us and families, the kids, the fathers that are gonna be left behind because women cannot get in a topic, pregnancy taking out or a D&C done, it's gonna scare professionals into not doing those procedures.

It's also gonna affect some of our cancer professionals working with cancer patients, where they're working with their patients, asking them to refrain from being pregnant so they can get their treatment done.

Those are the things that's gonna happen in Wyoming.

At the national level, I will absolutely work on codifying it into law.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Yes, I spent 15 years advocating for protection and prevention of women and children, especially in the realms of domestic violence, sexual assault, human trafficking, child sex trafficking, exploitation.

And in that time, I mentored a lot of young women, and I am honored that I was able to work with these young women and mentor them.

I had conversations with them when they were in situations where they were pregnant.

Some of them was able to make a choice to keep their babies.

Some made other choices.

But I think it comes down to a human level in each situation.

- Thank you very much.

This next question for Mr. Helling from Tennessee Watson.

- Is white nationalism a threat to our democracy, and what needs to be done about it?

- I think white nationalism is a few radical crazies that need to be shut down.

So I don't believe in critical race theory.

I don't think there is systemic discrimination.

I think racism is a form of hatred.

I profess to be a Christian, and I think racism is very ungodly, and there is no place for it.

But racism is alive, but it's not just white people.

There are people of all races that are guilty of being racist.

And it's wrong and it's bad.

Thank you.

- You're welcome.

Ms. Jensen.

- White nationalism is definitely a threat to our country.

What we need to do is focus more on domestic terrorist attacks in our country, rather than focusing only what other countries are doing to us.

We need to start looking at us first and seeing what we can do here.

What white nationalism does to folks in our communities, it tears neighbors apart.

And we can't do this alone.

And we need everybody to work together on this.

It is a problem.

There are solutions to it, and it's gonna take you as a voter.

And I hope I'll be there to implement those policy decisions at the national level.

- Thank you very much.

Ms. GreyBull?

- Yes, white supremacy is definitely a problem in our country.

To avoid that issue and not take it on as a serious thing that we're facing is ignorant.

We see that.

we see how white supremacy is impeding upon our politics, impeding upon our leadership.

We see an increase of gun violence from people who are white supremacists.

We see targeting of people of color.

It is absolutely an issue.

And it's the issue that we can solve.

It's an issue that we can address.

We can undo racism.

We can undo colonization.

We can undo these things, but again, it takes people who are in the right places, who are elected to make those changes.

Now, being a Native American, I've always fought for issues for Indian country.

And so in realms of people of color, we have a lot to do.

We have a lot of work ahead.

But if you look at every sector in this country, whether it's politics, whether it's economic development and whether it's any other industry or sector, very few do you see a Native American individual at that seat at the table.

And when it comes to issues, you rarely see a Native American professional be invited to that seat at that table.

So in realms of racism and realms of discrimination, that's something that we still face on a day-to-day basis.

It is something that we need to talk about.

We must reveal and talk about it before we can heal.

And you need the right people who can give that type of representation and speak to it from a truth.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. GreyBull, Mr. Helling, an opportunity to rebuttal here?

- Yes.

I have seen Ms. GreyBull state that she believes that there is systemic racism, that white people hold Indians down.

And then the one other thing I would like to say about Ms. GreyBull is that Rone Tempest was the author of an article, three Democrats vying for an individual or for one spot.

And he's a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist.

And he said that she said she would register as a Republican probably if she wasn't running for this- - [Craig] Thank you very much, Mr. Helling.

And I think we've addressed that issue, so we'll move forward here.

The next question for Ms. Jensen from Tennessee Watson.

- What is the United States' biggest national security threat today?

What should be done about it now?

- The United States' biggest security right today, and something that needs to be done right now is something that we're all gonna have to come to a solution on.

I believe that's our elections.

There are plenty of lies that are be thrown out there about our elections and what needs to be done about it.

The truth is is people aren't getting out to vote.

And so when we're creating a dishonest belief of the election was stolen, when really in reality that people aren't getting out to vote, what are we gonna do with the country when we are not able to vote?

That in itself is something that needs to be fixed.

And I will definitely be at the forefront of that, supporting the idea of democracy and voting for everyone.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. GreyBull?

- I think that I can answer that in several different ways, but some of the things that come to mind thinking about that question is for one, again, my mind and how I work, is I think about the people.

I think about American people.

I think about families.

And I think one of the, I wouldn't say maybe, this is not a security threat, but just the jobs that we have here.

I do believe investing in domestic industries and manufacturers to ensure that we can keep moving forward and keep our jobs domesticated.

But also, on another topic, especially when it comes to corporations that we have here in our nation, is the cyber safety issue that we have here.

It's an issue globally.

It's something that needs to be researched on and looked upon even more carefully.

Security and outside influence in voting is also another issue: voter suppression, voter influence, using social media in those ways, in that factor.

That's also another issue.

So I think that when we talk about these things, it's definitely gonna take more research, more data, more understanding.

But it also is gonna take more leaders who are willing to have those conversations and understand that these things are a threat to our nation.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Mr. Helling?

- Okay, election integrity certainly is a major, major issue affecting all of us.

I am of the opinion that the 2020 election was probably stolen.

It's undisputed that President Biden was the least popular president in this country's history.

from a geographical perspective.

He won the fewest counties of any president in history, and he was dozens and dozens of counties less than any president in history, the lowest percentage of counties won.

And yet, did he squeak out a victory even though he was the least popular president ever?

No, he won by millions and millions of votes and got 12 million more votes than even President Barack Obama had gotten in 2008 during his first term.

And he did all of that from the comfort of his basement.

We've been told that this election was the most secure in the history of this country, but we know there were 68 million mail-in ballots, which was 39 million more mail-in ballots than 2016.

So we know, at least from my perspective- - Mr. Helling, the question was the biggest national security threat.

Are you saying that election integrity is that?

- I am, your honor.

Your honor, I'm so used to addressing the court.

I'm responding to Ms. Jensen who was talking about election integrity.

We know, at least from my perspective, this was the most unsecure election in American history because there were 68 million mail-in ballots.

We need to get rid of that.

In addition, cyber threats to this country.

I have talked to someone that I consider an expert that has said the cyber threats are very real, and they may already have infected our electronical equipment.

They just haven't been activated.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Jensen?

You have an opportunity for rebuttal if you'd like it.

- Well, obviously, I've already stated I believe the election was not stolen.

I believe our election integrity includes getting more people to the polls rather than restricting access to the polls.

As far as cyber security threats, I believe those are also real.

But that is my rebuttal.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

The final question of the debate tonight will come from Mr. Peck for Ms. GreyBull.

- All three of you are running for federal office.

About half of all the land in Wyoming is federal property.

And in other Western states, the percentage is even higher.

Federal land in the West often rises as a campaign topic among both those who want to preserve federal ownership and those who want to see more land in state or private hands.

Does Wyoming have too much federal land within its borders?

- Ms. GreyBull, excuse me.

Before you answer that, I'm gonna ask our timer to give each of you 45 seconds for this so that we can give you full closing statements.

So there'll be 45 seconds for each of you to respond to that question.

Please go forward.

- So I can answer and then do my closing statement?

- [Craig] No, we'll have it, closing statements separately.

- All right.

Yes, well, for one, I think it's, I think Wyoming is so unique.

We have so much land here and so much resources versus other states across the nation.

But one thing I do just for my own advocacy work is that we have to keep public lands in public hands.

I don't believe that federal government should impede on the public lands.

I think it's important that we protect public lands, not only for the sake for the environment, but in the sake for the natural resources there.

But also in the realms of the animals and the wildlife that we have, the migration patterns we have here in the state of Wyoming.

Those things are all important.

And for most Wyomingites, whether what side of the party you stand on, those things are also important.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Mr. Helling?

- Yes, we must protect our lands.

We have fossil fuel development.

It must be done in a responsible manner.

There are experts who can determine what lands should have no development, forest lands that can have multi-use development.

We need to protect Wyoming's most precious assets.

And in that, in my opinion, that is the land and water resources.

We certainly want to make this state very friendly to hunters and fishermen.

Many people move to this state so that they can hunt and fish and enjoy the pristine beauty of the state of Wyoming.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Jensen.

- It's absolutely true that our public lands are part of our economy here in Wyoming.

And I would definitely support doing ethical multiple-use for our public lands.

But the thing is, everybody is always talking about the nostalgia and how we wanna get back to where we were.

And I'm gonna tell you, the only thing that we're gonna find that in is in Wyoming and on public lands.

And if we do not keep that going and having Wyoming having public lands, the rest of the country is going to not have that type of nostalgia.

And so what we need to do is keep our public lands in public hands.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. GreyBull, an opportunity for a quick rebuttal if you'd like.

- Yeah, no, I just wanna reiterate, I feel like I've done a lot of work, especially on the state level about our public lands, working with conservation organizations across our state.

I'm presently working with conservation organizations across our state to introduce Native youth into getting into that sector of work and diversifying conservation.

Native Americans are natural conservatives of the Earth and protecting it.

But yes, I think we need to keep them in public hands and keep them in he hands of the state of Wyoming.

- Thank you very much.

Candidates, now it's time for closing statements.

Ms. GreyBull, we'll go in reverse order, So you get to go first.

- Awesome.

Well, again, like I stated in the beginning, it is such an honor to be on a platform and a stage like this with my fellow candidates here.

I take great pride on speaking: speaking for myself, speaking for my Wind River community, speaking for my family, speaking for the people that I serve.

I've always been a community servant.

I've always looked on building bridges.

What are the gaps?

What is needed?

What can be useful?

I'm a collaborator.

I bring everybody to the table.

It doesn't matter what side of the party you're on.

It doesn't matter what your beliefs may be, because this world is so unique, because we all have different opinions.

We all have different backgrounds.

I don't think those things should divide us.

I don't think those things should be the ones to say it's us against them, me against you.

I'm not about sowing division.

I'm about bringing people together, about unity, about promoting peace, community well-being, helping those who need it the most, impacting legislation for state and federal, for counties, I mean for communities and people who need it the most.

And so that's my heart and that's my passion.

It's something that I've always done.

I've always been a community doer.

I've always advocated for those who need it the most.

Whether I'm elected or not, that's something that I'm gonna continue to do.

And speaking truth to those places where those voices are not heard and people are not listened to.

My name is Lynnette GreyBull.

My traditional name is (in foreign language).

It means morning water.

And thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you for the honor of listening to me.

And thank you and God bless Wyoming.

- [Craig] Thank you very much, Ms. GreyBull.

Ms. Jensen, your turn.

- When I speak to folks, I usually start out with I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, I'm a granddaughter.

and I'll leave it there for a moment 'cause I need to tell you something very important tonight.

I got into this race cause I'm pushing back against the idea that only one person is responsible for our future here in Wyoming and in the country.

I think we need more people working on these issues specifically.

It's gonna start with you the voter.

And I'm gonna tell you one thing.

We've seen the one-party role here in Wyoming and see what happens.

We need more diverse voices, and it's time that Wyoming start considering looking at which party actually represents their values.

And obviously, I'm a Democrat up here, but I think there's a lot more Democrats out in Wyoming.

And I suggest that you go ahead and consider changing to a party that's for the working people, for families, and for women.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Mr. Helling.

- Yes.

I would also like to thank WyomingPBS for this opportunity to be heard.

I have been trying to get the speaking engagement.

A week ago Monday I was in Thermopolis.

A week ago Wednesday I was in Evanston.

This was the first time that I had ever met Ms. GreyBull and Ms. Jensen.

And I actually joked that they were using Joe Biden's campaign strategy of campaigning from the basement.

But we are all here tonight.

We've all made our points.

The choices are very clear.

Both of these young women support what Liz Cheney has done.

I do not.

I got into this race because like 90% of the people in this country, I was not happy with the direction of this country.

But more than being not happy, I was mad.

I was mad about this January 6th Committee which just goes on and on and on, and has the sole purpose of trying to destroy one man, President Donald Trump, who got us energy independence, border controls, low inflation, moved the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, did what he said he would do.

And so I was a person that was unhappy.

I was mad.

I do think the election was probably stolen, but I think it's time to move on from the 2020 election and have healing and unity.

And I think we should all be willing to do that for God and country.

(buzzer beeping) And thank you.

- Thank you very much.

To our viewers, I wanna let you know that if you were tuning in to see our next debate this evening, we had indeed scheduled a Democratic gubernatorial debate to follow this debate.

However, because of an illness, it has forced us to cancel that debate.

WyomingPBS does have one more debate this primary season.

Steve and I will serve as panelists for a Republican secretary of state candidate's debate.

That debate is sponsored by the Wyoming, or the Central Wyoming Boys and Girls Club in Casper.

WyomingPBS will livestream that debate.

And that will happen next Monday at 5:30.

And of course, we will have general election debates later this fall.

Candidates, thank you very much for attending tonight's debate.

I also wanna thank Joanna Kalar, our timer.

And my sincere thanks to Tennessee Watson and Steve Peck for serving with me on tonight's panel.

If you have yet yet to vote via absentee ballot, we certainly encourage you to make sure you vote in the primary on Tuesday, August 16th.

We wanna thank you for watching and also listening tonight with our simulcasting partners at Wyoming Public Media.

And as a reminder, you can see this debate again online at WyomingPBS.

Thank you for joining us.

(patriotic music)