- This week on "Black Issues Forum," join us for another election coverage special as we take you to Anson County to hear concerns from local leaders.

- We have about 1,600 people that lead this county every day to go and work outside of the county.

So what are we doing to keep them inside of the county?

And that's where we need the support, that's where we need the help.

- On the next "Black Issues Forum."

[upbeat music] ♪ - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm your host, Kenia Thompson.

Thank you for joining us for our special election coverage today.

We're here with a new group of folks, new topics, but same passion.

As we all know, our country is heading towards a significant presidential election.

One that will shape not just the national landscape, but the futures of small rural communities like Anson County, they represent significantly large Black populations.

But first, before we talk to our guests, we wanna learn more about this great place they call home.

Deborah Holt Noel takes us to Anson County.

Take a look.

- When it's time to come together, we come together.

It's love, no matter where you live in the county.

- It takes that whole village.

This whole village has to go to work.

- We have about 1,600 people that leave this county every day to go and work outside of the county.

So what are we doing to keep them inside of the county?

And that's where we need the support, that's where we need the help, to help us look at ways to bring industry back into Anson County.

- Probably 90% of the textile companies have pulled up roots and you have empty factories and empty buildings.

- Well, manufacturing textiles, you know, moved out of Anson County years ago and I don't think that we have recovered from that and so having affordable housing is important, having access to healthier foods is important, great education and healthcare.

- Well, from my perspective as a physician, a lot comes down to healthcare affordability and whether that means affordability for visits or for procedures or for medication, a lot of rural areas in, in America, obesity would probably be the the biggest health concern, if I had to say, can I raise one thing?

It is easier and cheaper to buy food that is bad for you than food that is good for you.

- I knew I needed to do something.

We have to find ways to reach, bring resources to our children.

We can't settle for being marginalized.

That's kinda up to you if you wanna be marginalized.

So that's up to us to get on the page or we can create our own page.

But that's what you can call the Holla Center, our page.

We created our own page.

- So when someone says, "Well, thank you for coming up "to the rural area and taking care "of the working class people."

I say, "It's what I've always wanted to do."

And God granted me the ability, the skills, the blessings to do the exact job I want you to do and make enough to put a roof over the family's head.

So, you know, it's- - You fulfilled a vision for yourself and probably for the community too.

- Well, very fortunate from my angle, so if they're grateful that I'm here, I'm grateful to be here.

[gentle music] - I think my presence is very important and I'm glad that God chose me.

- To talk more about the groundwork that's being done in the community.

I wanna welcome to the studio Mayor Angela Caraway of Ansonville, and the founder and Executive Director of the Caraway Foundation.

Next to her is the founder of Holla, a resource and community development center, Leon Gatewood.

And lastly, Karida Giddens, Program Director for Access to Healthcare with the North Carolina Black Alliance.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you for having us.

- Of course, of course.

We're not too far away from the presidential election and many people in Anson County and counties like Anson, they're eager to know how national policies will affect them locally, so let's dig into education first.

It has been a huge topic of conversation, especially since the pandemic.

I wanna read a statistic here.

We've got around 82.5% of Anson County residents age 25 and older have at least a high school diploma, slightly below the state average of 89.4.

However, only 11.4 hold a bachelor's degree or higher, which is significantly lower than the state and national averages, which hover around 34%.

I wanna throw the first question out here and just talk about how could the presidential election results impact education in a county like Anson County?

Mayor, I'll start with you.

- Well, Kenia, first of all, thank you for having me, having us here today.

The election is very important to Anson County and I think that everyone should be paying attention to it, especially those that are living in a rural area.

The presidential election can affect rural towns by the decisions that they make around funding that will go down to the state level, then, you know, come out to the various rural areas and I think it's important for Anson County to understand that depending on who gets into that particular seat, in addition to our US Senators and House of Representatives, which I feel is very important, actually more important, that they're gonna determine the type of money that we, or the amount of money that we're gonna receive in Anson County, and it's going to affect programming, which we have, I think have seen that a lot of programming have been cut in our area, is going to affect recruitment of teachers, and just services to those who are dealing with disabilities, so, you know, understanding that who you vote for is going to impact you in a local level from the federal, so from the top to the bottom, is very important, so you have to be engaged and we're in a county that's already hit with high poverty numbers.

You just read these statistics around our people, citizens having their diplomas, and even a lower number around having a secondary degree.

So if our programming is cut, funding for qualified teachers are cut, our kids don't stand in a chance.

And so knowing who, and having a relationship with, those that are making the decisions for us is gonna be vital to the movement and the changes that we need to have happen in Anson County.

- Yeah, Leon, I wanna bring you into the conversation.

Have Holla share with us a little bit what Holla is, and we saw it in the package, but go ahead and talk about why you created this space and some of the needs that you're seeing in education.

- Well, thanks for allowing us to be here today.

- Of course.

- But Holla is an organization that was started in 2005 actually to address low achievement in the school system.

And we found the best way to do that was make a partner with the schools, 'cause we just don't think sometimes the schools get it.

When I say, "Get it," I mean, understand what our kids need.

Normally, and this is something we can address, but Anson County is probably, the school system is probably between 60% and 70% Black.

- [Kenia] Okay?

- And normally, you run across situations where the administrators and the teachers are more like 80% another race.

- Right.

- So sometimes those things matter.

- I think all the time they matter- - Anyway.

- Right, yeah?

So we found that it's good for a grassroots organization that's born in the community, brought up in the community, becomes a partner with the school so that we can fill some of the gaps that those teachers may not see.

And feel some of the things that those teachers don't feel.

- Right, I wanna bring Karida into the conversation.

While she's not local to Anson County, you do a lot of work educating around the importance of voting, especially about a topic focusing on education.

Share with us how important it is to understand how the vote matters, who's in office matters, and locally, how that impacts education in a space like an Anson County.

- Yeah, so for in a space like Anson County, but really counties like across the state of North Carolina, who's in office determines what kind of funding and resources are gonna be poured into our schools.

When you're talking about education funding, you're not just talking about teachers, but a lot of those resources you all mentioned earlier- - [Kenia] Name some of those resources.

What does that look like?

- Your school nurses, your social workers, a lot of those staff members that really help keep kids healthy.

Hungry kids can't learn.

Kids that are not healthy, they have a sick, a cold, they can't learn.

And so, a lot of those teachers, you know, they're filling in right now for an absence in school nurses and social workers.

And so, having more funding for places like Anson County and other rural communities across the state can make or break having enough resources to not only make sure kids can learn what they need to learn, but also be healthy while they're at school.

- Mhm, yeah.

Did you wanna add something?

- Yeah, I just gonna say, Kenia, back to the Leandro case.

The judge awarded $5.6 billion to North Carolina school systems to settle that case.

And that was back in 1997.

It ruled again in 2024.

She just mentioned things that...

Okay, let's take Anson County, for instance.

$14.6 million of that $5.6 billion would've been coming to Anson County schools to provide counselors, nurses, extra teachers for the schools.

And it's still tied up in the court system.

- Mm, since ninety... - Seven.

- Seven.

- Yes.

- Wow.

What are some things on the policy side that leaders like Mayor Caraway and other leaders across the state can do to help push that along?

- I think the first thing I would offer is make sure that your constituents, the people in Anson County, they know that our leaders aren't being held accountable to kinda what they said that they were supposed to do.

And really, ensure that everybody has access to a quality education.

I think voter education is one of the most powerful resources we all have to get our communities what they need.

And I think as more voters begin to understand.

The power that they have to really, like, turn out and vote on the issues that matter to them, I think we can begin to see some of those things that have been tied up in our courts, in our legislature begin to move because we start to see representation that reflects the needs of the people.

And so they're gonna push forward those policies, those laws, those bills that begin to put infrastructure in place to address the needs of people, like, in Anson County and other rural communities.

- Yeah.

Well, how candidates propose to manage education concerns is definitely something voters will want to listen for.

But right now, we wanna turn our focus to healthcare.

It's another issue uniquely significant to rural communities and Anson County is no different.

The Trump administration has threatened to do away with Obamacare, Affordable Act.

And so I wanna lift that up.

Thoughts on potentially getting rid of Obamacare.

Karida, I wanna come to you because some of your advocacy is in the healthcare space.

What could that do to so many small rural counties?

- So Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act helped to close the uninsured rate in North Carolina and I know other states, but for a long time, North Carolina had one of the highest uninsured rates and many of those uninsured residents were Black people.

And so what the Affordable Care Act did, it not only provided access through marketplace premium, like tax credit, affordability, but also it gives states the funding to provide Medicaid for a lot of residents.

And so when you talk about cutting the entire act, you're not just cutting one part of it, you're really gutting healthcare for so many people in our state that rely and depend on it, and we know that when people have health insurance and they can access the care, they will take care of themselves.

They'll have healthier outcomes.

And so this idea to go away and get rid of Obamacare, it really threatens the state of healthcare for a lot of people.

- Question to you, we recently saw that Medicaid expansion happen, over 600,000 North Carolinians are now covered.

Would that somehow impact those people or?

- Yes, it would.

- It would, how?

- Because part of how they were able to expand Medicaid had a lot to do with federal funding that North Carolina received to be able to expand it to those 600,000 people.

And so now, you're talking about threatening the state's ability to fund a program that thousands of people rely on.

So absolutely, it would affect that.

- Wow, that's disheartening to hear.

I mean, there's so much work, so many people that went behind making this happen.

And just to think it could be dismantled just like that.

- I have never been able to figure out the rationale behind dismantling the Affordable Care Act.

I can't figure it out.

Why would wanna do that?

What's the point?

- Right.

- That's a good question.

- If you're not gonna provide us, everyone, with the same healthcare services that you, as a U.S.

Senator are receiving, if you're not gonna provide that to this entire country, why do you wanna do such a thing?

Why?

I mean, these are people's lives.

I'm a product of the Obamacare or Affordable- - I don't get that one.

- I don't get it either.

- It's a lot of things I don't get, but that one just makes life- - Goes over your head.

- Just goes over my head.

- I get it.

- It does, it does.

And if it wasn't for the Affordable Care Act, I wouldn't be here today.

- Share your story just a little bit.

- I was out there getting people signed up for their Affordable Care Act and I didn't have insurance at all, but I made a conscious decision not to, as an entrepreneur, you know, as they say, your money funny, but I made sure I went to my doctor's appointments and getting people signed up, getting people signed up.

And then one day I drove by and I was like, "I need to get signed up myself."

Went in, did that.

Months later, I started seeing blood in my stool.

Found out I had stage three colorectal cancer.

But if it wasn't for the Obama Act, as they say, the Obamacare Affordable Healthcare Act, I would not have gone because I knew that I didn't have the funding to do that.

I would've put it off just like I did.

I chopped it up as a hemorrhoid, and I was like, "Okay, that's what Google Medical University said."

I was like, "Okay."

But because I had that, I was able to get my chemotherapy treatments.

I was able to get those things.

And yes, I still had a premium, but it was affordable.

And that has allowed me to continue because being a mayor doesn't pay a great salary.

I mean, I was surprised I got paid, but it doesn't pay enough for me to do the things that I could do and pay for private healthcare, but I can't do that.

So having the ability to pay for or obtain the Obamacare healthcare, whether it's free or a little bit of money, or some money, it's worth it and don't dismantle it.

And that's crazy to me.

People need to be healthy, and healthier people, I guess that's the thing.

'Cause if you're healthier, and you don't go to the doctor, somebody's not making some money.

- What are some of the unique healthcare challenges that smaller rural counties face?

- So, I like to think about how healthcare challenges are rural communities in and layers, right?

Like, we're not just talking about not having health insurance.

We also start to talk about are there availability of providers, right?

So let's say you were somebody who, you were waiting for Medicaid to be expanded and now you finally have healthcare.

That doesn't mean you have a doctor in your town.

You still might have to drive 25 miles down the road just to get to like the nearest doctor.

And so a lot of our rural communities have been challenged by rural hospital closures.

And so people are not able to really get the care that they need.

I think one of the other challenges is a lot of our rural communities are challenged by like food security.

And so people are not always able to make the healthiest food choices, which also impacts your health.

And so you really can't talk about these as isolated issues.

People need health insurance.

People need access to the doctor.

People need access to resources to make the best decisions in the interest of their own health.

- Right.

Right.

Now, you know, a lot of, I'm glad we're having this conversation, especially, I'm glad you cleared up that Medicaid expansion potential impact, right, by not no longer having the Affordable Care Act.

I didn't realize that.

And so we had an episode not too long ago that talked about misinformation versus disinformation.

And I think that might fall under some misinformation.

People don't realize how impactful not voting or not knowing enough about the folks that we're voting about.

But we're seeing tactics, a lot about voter suppression, and how's the landscape of voting in Anson County?

And do you think there's voter suppression happening, or what's going on with that in that space?

- Well, I tell you, voter suppression is something that can happen right before your very eyes and you not know it's happening, right?

But anyway, we try our best.

I just, lemme say it this way.

We try our best to make sure our community is informed.

We have formed a partnership with Black Voters Matter, Democracy in North Carolina, the NC Counts Coalition.

All these guys- - NC Rural Project.

- NC, North Carolina, the New Rural Project.

All these guys are pumping information into our community and they're very active.

- Right.

- We're basically partners with all of them, so we try to suppress the suppressor.

[chuckles] We're trying to make sure- - What does that look like?

- What does it look like?

- Yeah.

- What does what look like?

Lemme make sure I'm- - Suppressing the suppressor, what does that look like?

Is that going into community centers?

Is that going - Oh, absolutely.

- into the schools, the churches?

- It's phone banking, it's going to church, when I didn't normally go.

[all laughing] - That's why we haven't seen you in a long time.

- Exactly, exactly.

"What's this guy up to?"

So it's going to church, it's phone banking, it's canvassing, it's sign waving.

It's poll parties.

It's- - Yeah, being where the people are.

- all of that.

- Yeah.

So, let's take a step back.

And we've talked some, you know, North Carolina, Anson County, but let's talk about the national presidential election.

Just roundtable, Karida, I may start with you?

[chuckles] What are your thoughts and feelings about just the landscape, the political landscape in this upcoming election?

- I'm optimistic, honestly.

I think a lot of people are recognizing what's at stake.

And so I think seeing the energy, not only behind grassroots organizations, like getting out there to tell people why it's important to vote, but I think a lot of people tapping into their own networks to really have those, like one-on-one conversations about like why it matters for all of us to get involved.

And so, at least for me, I'm very optimistic about that, and how energized people are.

- Yeah, that's good.

- Yeah.

I feel the same way.

I'm optimistic, and I'm nervous.

And what I'm nervous is about is I don't feel that there's a lot of information about those that are running for the House of Representative seats, the US Senators, that conversation, or even our state House of Representative Senator seats, that it is all focused on the presidential seat.

And that typically is the, you know, how it goes.

But let's talk about those that are running, that's gonna make some decisions about how we move forward in life.

Let's have those conversations.

And that's where I'm nervous about.

For me, to be honest with you, I'm like, "Okay, I want the best candidate representing me around the world."

- Leon, what are your thoughts, feelings, energy around this upcoming presidential?

- My thoughts?

If you're an undecided voter now, [chuckles] you're not looking.

[chuckles] - And surprisingly, there's actually a lot of people that still are unsure.

- Yeah.

- One of my biggest prayers is, "Lord, don't make me an undecided voter."

[all chuckling] - What impacts do undecided voters have?

Like, if we're just sitting here saying, you know, "I don't know, so I don't know if I'm gonna go vote."

What impact does that have?

- The impact of that is when you don't turn out to vote, you are kind of also voting.

I know that's a really weird way to say it, but when you stay at home, you give all of the opposing races, whichever they may be, a leg up, right?

Because you are, in essence, not casting against them, whoever they may be.

So we really need everybody to show up and vote.

And I think that's how we see representation.

That reflects like what the people want and who they wanna see in office, is when we all get out there and vote, and we're voting for who we feel is really gonna serve the interest of our community, that's when we start to see the real change.

But I would definitely say for anybody that's undecided, you are making a decision whether you- - Make a decision.

- Yeah.

- Well, last question for our two Anson County residents, what's one thing that you want people to know about Anson County?

Mayor, I'll start with you.

- I would say that, that we do come together when there is a problem, tension.

There is tension.

But I would say, in all in all, that when someone is in need, we come together.

And I know people can say that about their community too, maybe.

But Anson County is that county that, for me, that's the reason why I went back home.

Is that when you know that there's someone in need, we jump right in, and we help them.

We call, we find out who, it doesn't care who you are, status, you're in need, we got you.

- Yeah.

To Leon.

- I mean, I'm Black-owned in Anson County.

A lot of times, when people come to Anson County, it's kind of like, "We gonna go down and help these guys out."

But when they get there, they're like, "It's a lot to learn from these guys," you know?

People need to know what's going on in Anson County.

- Well, Mayor Caraway, Leon, and Carita, I thank you so much for having this conversation with us.

I know there's a lot that we could cover, but I think we gave a good overview of Anson County and the work that you guys are doing and the need that the people have in that space.

So thank you so much for all the work that you're doing and for contributing to this conversation today.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you to the folks in Anson County.

- And we thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbssnc.org/blackissuesforum, and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson, I'll see you next time.

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