And now the 419 with Gretchen de backer.

Matt, kill em, and Kevin Mullin.

Welcome into the 419.

It's a wellness Wednesday edition.

I'm Kevin Mullin.

We are not.

Well.

Gretchen.

Do background masculine.

The 419 powered by presented by Retro Wealth Management.

You guys, are you mad that I said stand by?

No.

I'm thrilled.

Okay.

That's.

That's the thing that you say right before you start.

Yeah.

That's not the only.

That's not the only weird phrase that we've heard this morning.

Right?

Yes.

Gretchen, you said, you use the phrase cash on the barrel head.

Yes.

And you two both immediately started making old timey jokes, which is appropriate because you never heard that.

So when you heard that, did we know?

Yeah.

I don't even know if I heard it growing up.

I don't know where I heard it.

I'm a very intelligent person.

You know, when you were purchasing, I used to be a barbell and saloon.

Okay.

But it's, it's like an old Western term.

If you're only an old person, if you're on the road.

Western saloon movie.

Because become Gertz.

That's such a fabulous word.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Girls, I've got the floor plate here, if you don't mind.

Here's the logo.

Right.

I've never been more afraid of that.

I am right now.

Yeah.

Well, I wish I could say that with how quickly you answered that.

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah.

So today I wanted to say I had to explain to me.

Cash on the barrel head.

Where does that come from?

Well, you were talking about selling something, and I said, have you been paid yet?

I said, do you have?

I said to you, do you have cash on the barrel head?

Which means to me, basically, if you bet you've got money in hand.

Have you been paid?

Okay.

But then we did a quick Google search, as you do, and it's from like an old Western time.

They would use their old barrels as tables.

And if you were paying someone cash or something, you're not getting credit extended and you put money down on the barrel.

Had to pay for something.

That's what it's comes from.

All right.

Does your family use this expression?

I don't know, maybe my dad used to say it.

We did have barrels as tables.

A lot.

Well, maybe that's why I'm interested in what that decor did.

The general counsel for Dana was not.

That was not appropriate decision.

Right.

That's fair.

Yeah, yeah.

What does your family have a saying?

Or did you ever find out that you've been misusing a thing?

So we talked about this on the podcast early on that, this one I was on.

Right.

No, no, I, I had heard a phrase, and I still don't know what the actual phrase is.

I believe the phrase is kiss the frog, but I had been saying lick the frog.

Which is similar, but very different.

Say kiss the.

So kiss the Frog is like, you know, the whole point of that phrase is like, you know, when you wake up, like do the hardest thing you're going to have to do that day first.

And we started this show.

That's right.

That's right.

So we went garlic and frogs over here.

Right.

We got that frog.

You can bring it over here.

So.

So the good news is a good point.

Yeah.

So the good news is, we've got a couple of experts on the show yesterday to help us, get ourselves right.

They got their work cut out for them.

That's right.

Yeah.

We're going to be talking about building resilience before crisis.

That's right.

Which is the right time to build resilience?

When you try to do that in the midst of crisis, a little chaotic.

No, no.

So, you know, proper preparation.

A lot of barrel heads there, a lot of them right now, things that are close.

All right, so our good friend Alyssa Lark from Work Spring is going to be joining us here.

It's Wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring.

And we'll take a break when we come back.

Alyssa Lark will join us on the 419.

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Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419.

It's a wellness Wednesday edition, powered by work spring.

We're joined now by wellness consultant Alyssa Lark.

Welcome back to the show.

Thanks for having me.

You are our first three timer.

Well, we've got to get you a jacket or something.

I think it's a five timer.

You can't have the jacket.

That's okay.

This just in a ordered it, like, you know, get it done.

Two more appearances, and then you just hang out at the bar and wait for other people to also join the five times.

Yeah, it's a big deal.

All right, so you you told me I was wrong.

And as soon as you walked up on him, said, So I said, I believe the phrase is kiss the frog.

But I've been saying, like the frog, there's something totally different.

And you're now telling me that I'm wrong on both fronts.

Both of those.

Yeah.

It's.

Eat the frog.

Eat the frog.

Now is that I mean what it means the same thing that you said it meant.

So.

Yeah.

So let's be clear.

Eat the frog is way worse than both of them.

Yeah.

Not for the frog.

That's what's wrong.

That you're an expert in incipient right?

I wouldn't say so.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

I can tell.

Very cool, though.

Yeah.

All right.

We'll take a good stance.

Have you ever cooked a frog?

I have not, but I have eaten frog legs before I survived.

I think they're delicious.

Really?

So it's been week since last we saw you.

We know cooking is a relative passion for you.

What have you cooked in the kitchen?

The confectionery Mecca from north west Ohio.

Your words.

What have we cooked since last I've seen you?

I think one of my favorite things I've done is like a, red curry, Thai chicken soup.

And it was really good.

Yeah.

And that little jar of red.

The red.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It had like rice noodles some lime lemongrass doing it.

Cilantro.

Yeah.

Really good.

Big chili recommend.

Good for you.

I noticed you don't have any samples but that's okay.

Next.

Tell us a little bit for people that maybe have not seen you when your two prior appearances.

A little bit about work spring and what role you play there.

Yeah.

So, I am a wellness consultant for work spring.

And kind of what we do as a whole is we provide different, air services to, businesses across, Ohio and then into, southeast Michigan as well.

So organizations can be members of ours and, we can help them with, all their air needs, whether that's, you know, doing handbooks, hiring, training, different seminar learning that we can offer.

And then specifically on the wellness side, we can help, companies with implementing their wellness programing for their employees.

What kinds of things are included?

Typically, in a wellness program for a company.

So, one thing that we do is we have like a wellness portal that, folks can access online and they can engage in different activities and resources on there.

So there's lots of free education for them.

And then we also help them like run fun challenges for their employees.

As well as, you know, kind of take stock of what type of things might people be struggling with with their health, and, and wellness and how we can help them improve those areas, provide education and things of that nature has worked for you ever consider making a frog their mascot?

Not a frog.

I don't think frogs would maybe match our colors right now, but probably some things we do say in our office a lot.

We talk about eating the frog.

We talk about getting the difficult thing over with.

Yeah.

The Metroparks mascot is a frog.

Oh that's right.

We ate him immediately.

Yeah.

That was.

So he's no longer with us.

Yeah.

Regrettably yeah.

Alyssa in the spring membership sort of list I mean is there a range of like if you've got, you know, five employees to 100 employees, like you're a prime kind of partner with work spring or is it or is there a budget range.

What does that look like?

We service, organizations that have a wide range of employees.

So it could be five employees.

It could be two.

It could be, 500 employees that we're helping you with.

And we you know, adjust things that are needed based on based on that.

Do you have trouble and not, Are giving wellness advice to your family or friends?

I think that's right.

You're like, oh, yeah, I yeah, yeah sure.

Yeah, yeah yeah.

Talk to me about sort of the work life balance of that.

Yeah.

Sometimes my parents, they try like the different trendy diet groups and things like that, which I think is, is totally fine as long as you know, you're you're aware of things and maybe certain stuff you're talking to your doctor about.

So I'm always the, the voice of reason.

And sometimes they roll their eyes at me a little bit, but I try to let people off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a but I think that that's a good, segue into some of the challenges of this, you know, there are to some degree, this could be considered sort of a box check for both employer and employee, based on the aged people that host the show, your relative, young person.

What is the voice of wellness need to sound like to somebody who is getting the information?

Like, how do you register that?

How do you think about delivering information that can be either both personal, or technically, proficient in a way that people might not find approachable.

Yeah.

I think, we try to give the approach of, you know, meeting people where they're at and you know, seeing, you know, what somebody is interested in what they're really looking for and focusing on what's right for them and what's the best fit for them.

Not necessarily telling everybody you need to do x, y, z. Exactly.

But finding, you know, what fits for each person and how that might be different.

So Gretchen is, suffers from seasonal crappiness.

But it's all it's all four seasons and how it just ramps up throughout the year as we approach Christmas, I think it has something to do with pollen.

It's like ever present.

Can you help Kevin and I just some tips.

I wouldn't say it's a crisis, but I wouldn't say it isn't.

How can we deal with her?

She doesn't know, because there's nothing to deal with.

The topic that we're talking about today is building resilience.

Before a crisis.

What kind of crisis is are we talking about?

Is this personal?

Is it work related?

Is it is it a combination?

What?

Which things are you would you be focused on at work?

Spring.

Kind of everything.

Kind of a holistic view of, you know, we're not, just employees at work.

We're whole people the whole time.

So.

So, yeah, we try to, you know, help people with, all the different areas that we can.

So.

And so what are some things that you guys work on as specifically as it relates to crisis?

How can someone, be prepared for something like that?

Yeah, we I mean, of course we, help people with, you know, getting that foundation of taking care of just your physical health and making sure you're eating well, getting sleep.

Sleep is kind of like a really important thing that I always like to harp on for people.

How many hours of sleep do you get a night?

Try to get at least seven.

God bless you.

I know it's hard sometimes, depending on what you've got going on, but 7 to 9 hours is like that sweet spot.

I don't think I've hardly ever gotten nine, but that was a little problem.

I mean, yeah, what about a koala model?

I like to sleep anywhere from 18 to 20 hours a day, and when I get up, I like to eat only eucalyptus, which is becomes a hallucinogen.

It's weird.

Yeah.

But it is interesting to me that is sophisticated, of beings as we are.

There's also a simplistic approach to it.

It turns out you need, the proper amount of fuel in terms of food.

You need rest, right?

And some modicum of exercise.

Right.

How much of your emphasis you find sort of going back to basics approach?

I think that that's kind of the baseline to start with because if you know, you're not taking care of those things, it's going to be harder for you to to take on those next levels of your wellness.

Right?

So if you're not sleeping well, it's going to be hard for you to think about, you know, how am I handling my relationships?

It's going to be, more difficult.

So I think the baseline is really good to start with.

And then, of course, you know, the other things on top of that are very important as well.

How can you tell if you're at the risk of asking you a personal question, how can you tell when one of your things are slipping?

What are some warning signs that something is a mark?

I think a big thing, especially when it comes to, resilience, is, if you find yourself, you know, withdrawing potentially from your, relationships or typical things that you enjoy or are engaged in, and then feeling overwhelmed in general, a lot of, anxious feelings, can definitely be a sign that, you might be struggling in those ways.

We're talking with.

We're talking with Alyssa Lark, with Work spring on a Wellness Wednesday, presented by works.

We're here on the 419.

You know, we talked you mentioned, you know, we're whole people the whole day, right?

So it's not just at work.

It's at home.

Do you approach these things differently in the office than you would like?

So you say, I'm.

I'm dealing with a crisis in my personal life.

The way I assess that, the way I approach that, is that different than the way I would approach and assess a crisis in the workplace?

I think maybe in some ways, depending on, you know, like there might be things that you don't necessarily share, to people in the workplace, but you can still be there for people and be understanding, and, you know, look for that support when you need it.

Regardless, Kevin, is that why you're self-employed?

Because you don't want to talk about your IBS?

That's exactly right.

I mean, too many for us.

Yeah.

That's right.

What's the right amount of frogs?

I think, as many as you need to like.

I'll tell you what.

It's hard to pin you down.

You're good.

Let's take an example.

Let's take a specific example and talk about things that you could do.

Let's say you're the crisis is that you, you get in a car accident and you know, it's hurt, but you your car's out for a week and okay, so then that's going to affect everything.

It's going to affect getting the kids school.

It's going to affect, you maybe potentially getting into work.

It's going to cost you money.

You got a deal with the insurance company link, all of these things.

So what are things that someone could do proactively, in advance of something like that, to not make it to, to to sort of get through that personal crisis?

I think a big thing is to, focus on your relationships and kind of your community, making sure you have people you can go to and talk to about, those struggles you might be having and also get practical help.

Sometimes as well, you might need that.

So, a support system is, really great to build in that can help you, because, you know, we can have personal resilience, but, you do need to have people to lean on.

Yeah, that I think is germane to this conversation.

But you can't always control all of the communities that you're around.

Right?

Is there are there are warning signs or there's some things that, if you're in crisis or even struggling a bit, people to avoid, relationships to avoid.

And again, to some degree, you can if it's a work team or something like that.

But, are there ways to mitigate that or say, you know, I'm struggling via something personally, or I should just sort of plug in a little bit?

What are some of the warning signs that people that might be taking more than they're giving them?

You know, and I think, you know, if you're feeling like some of the people around you are, maybe more negative and some people just are, and that's okay.

But you might have to, adjust, you know, your expectations with people.

What, you feel comfortable sharing with them?

And, you know, look for people who are empathetic and who maybe, help you feel less anxious rather than more anxious when you're, interacting with them.

I hope you listen to that.

I did, I did, if you're the employer and not the employee, and someone approaches you with, with something they're going through or some, some what they perceive to be a crisis, what should the within reason the employer's response be to that?

What does work spring do to train or educate employers about how they should respond.

Yeah.

Definitely.

You know trying to be that listening ear as appropriate.

And we do offer different trainings for leaders, who are looking for more guidance there and how to navigate those situations.

I know I've talked about it before, but we have that mental health first aid training.

Yes.

Which is a great opportunity for people to, kind of get some, background on how to help somebody who might be struggling, and make sure you're addressing it appropriately.

Give us a just a quick version of what that is, again, in case people missed it, mental health first aid as well.

Yeah.

So, it is a skill building training that, helps people to recognize, understand and respond to mental health challenges or substance use challenges.

Okay.

One of the things I know we've talked about is work.

Spring's got a new office, downtown.

You guys are in the, mediation center.

Innovation center?

What what is what is that space done for you guys?

And sort of talk to me about what it's like, having that as a home base.

Oh.

It's awesome.

It's a beautiful, space, a beautiful office.

Our team did a really great job furnishing it.

I think it looks really, nice and new.

And it's a really bright space with lots of light coming in.

I think it makes for, a really good environment for us.

And we love being, you know, kind of central downtown in in Toledo, there's almost nothing that replaces natural light.

As obvious as that statement, may sound, it makes a big difference.

I remember the old, remember the old United Way building.

Yeah.

So, like the original, like tall, brown, whatever building.

Yeah.

The way it was built.

The architects designed it for natural light to hit everybody the whole time.

And then as it grew and like, over the years, they added walls inside.

And so then it just became this dark, just miserable space to work.

Sure.

And they opened up tear down because they they were like, oh, well, you know, we need we need separation, which took out the natural light and destroyed it all.

That's a fun fact.

What what percentage of your paycheck are you spending at the coffee shop?

You know, when I go in there, I do try to get something from there because they're so sweet and nice over there.

And I love to, support them.

And great coffee.

Great.

Alissa, thank you so much for joining us.

When we come back, we've got, Jessica to talk a little bit more about, the topic of building resilience before crisis hits.

What's the number one question we should ask her when we have her on?

I think, ask her about the resilience and thriving course that she teaches on.

All right, we'll do all right.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we'll continue this wellness Wednesday on the 419.

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I'm Dani Miller and welcome to the Point.

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Welcome back into the 419.

It's a wellness Wednesday presented by Work Spring.

We're joined now by Jessica Pinkham.

Jessica, you are a wellness consultant with Work Spring, right?

But you're out of the.

You're out of Cleveland area, correct?

Yeah.

So it's less.

Well, Clevelanders or Toledo in.

Oh, sorry.

You're on.

This is probably the same.

You're diplomacy is on.

Well, playing the role of Switzerland today.

That's right.

I thought you were going to ask amongst the three of us.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's all a loss there.

Lot of frogging.

You know what?

Tell us about your role specifically.

What do you do at work?

Spring.

So I'm a wellness consultant, so that means I work with our clients to plan, develop and facilitate, wellness program initiatives for their employees.

We ask almost everybody this.

Come on.

This.

Just tell us how you got from little Jessica to, to to as long as you need to.

I mean, this is becoming a part of your life.

Is there an moment?

But what brought you to this career path?

So I, I, I went to Kent State University.

Okay.

So did I, and I didn't know what I wanted to do showing up there for ten minutes.

Unfortunately for about two, technically, she was, you know, I'm sure the mascot.

And also for folks that are fans of the podcast, also remember that Gretchen forgot.

Yeah, that that's where she went to school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That shows you how much time I really can't.

Right Kent State?

Oh, her.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

So I went there.

Not sure what I wanted to do.

Sure.

As many people do, I think it started off with early childhood education and then, quickly changed that.

Had several other majors and ended up with a nutrition class.

I was like, I kind of like this and I like going to this classroom.

I was like, let's, let's see what that brings me.

And I graduated with a nutrition and dietetics degree.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

That is.

Go ahead.

What was the plan?

Like, what were the plan?

Okay.

So graduated with no plan.

Sure.

Like, what can I do with this?

Because I was not a registered dietitian.

So I just had the degree.

I was like, do I take that step and be a registered dietitian or let's see what what is available without going that far?

I already went long enough in school.

I was like, you have to do more.

Sure.

I probably should have.

But it ended me up here, so it worked out.

I had several jobs trying to figure out what I. You know what I liked.

I think Jenny Craig was one of us.

Yeah.

Dietitian or, a dietary aide and, like, a hospital.

So you need to for a little area.

That's a tough gig.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was tough.

And then I ended up with, health coaching, and I really enjoyed the health coaching.

So I did that for a while.

What do you like about that portion of it?

That's obviously an extension of where you landed.

What's what what's the feel good.

What what gets you out of bed every morning.

Well when people because you're health coaching you're helping people set goals and realize how they, you know can be healthier.

And when people actually meet their goals that was very rewarding.

But it was also very challenging too, because you had a lot of people who just didn't come to their house like telephonic.

Oh, so that was hard too about it because it was all never face to face.

You never saw anybody.

It was like 24 phone calls in a day.

I was talking about.

Yeah, I felt like I was having the same conversation over and over again a lot.

But it was rewarding when people did meet their goals.

Yeah.

And how long have you been at work?

Spring.

Five years in June.

How bout that.

So how often are you up here in Toledo?

Are you, are you guys back and forth a lot?

Yeah.

Monthly we try to get together a full a team meeting and we do a full day of training or other things and meet with our wellness team to that day.

So we do get to be face to face a lot.

And so that's nice.

But are you a bronze fan?

Oh yeah.

That does not really have you didn't want to admit that does not lend itself to wellness.

My husband wrote them off.

But yes, that's certainly.

Yeah, I get it.

Yeah.

So maybe maybe you could work with the Browns on this one.

Building resilience before a crisis.

They need that class, right?

In 1964 or since the last of what I talked about, the definition of resilience, the definition of crisis.

And then let's work our way into sort of solutions that tell us about that.

So being resilient is more than just, coping with your stress.

And not that there's nothing wrong with coping like you need to cope, but coping is just getting by.

When you're resilient, you are taking your coping to the next level.

So you're coming out of that situation or that stress, even better.

So you're learning and adapting to it.

And so is there a is there a way to have zero stress?

No, I know there's always that everyone has to be stress free.

And it's just it's impossible.

Stress is the part of life.

It's a part of, you know, a motivator to get you through your day.

It's it helps you to meet deadlines.

And we need stress.

What's a sign that it's that it's less it's it's tipped away from motivation into problematic.

What is something that you would feel or experience or someone maybe at work would be like, geez, what's going on with that person?

Yeah.

If you you're not meeting your deadlines.

If your, you know, reacting not so nicely to situations, withdrawing, not interested in what you're doing anymore.

That could be signs of too much.

Just like this might be an unfair question, so bear with me.

Here it is.

Is happiness an equally legitimate goal?

I mean, it seems like it seems.

Is that a good pursuit?

Is content, a good pursuit?

What?

What is the goal that people should think to achieve?

And that could be a this could really display my ignorance in a very broad question.

That's unfair.

So bear with me.

What is that?

What are we looking for here?

I mean, obviously everyone strives to be happy, and happy equals healthy too, so they kind of go hand in hand.

But yeah, I mean, it's it's okay to be content, like with your job, you can be content.

Sure.

But ideally we would all like to be happy.

So happiness is a legitimate goal.

Oh, okay.

What's what's the kind of how do you identify this to me?

Like, hey, this is a problem.

This is, this is a hurdle or a hiccup, or now we're in full blown crisis.

That's a really great question.

And what are some examples of the crisis as you're talking about?

Well, it can range.

It depends on the company.

Some crisis is have a three person show.

And one of the people potentially sitting in my left is a nightmare.

I don't know about that.

I'm really upset.

I know about it.

The fact that both of us sit to your left.

I'm a little offended.

Yeah, but you mean immediately to your left?

Nope.

Okay.

I mean, left hand left.

Yeah, but please go ahead.

I'm sorry.

No.

It's okay.

Some companies have to deal with, you know, layoffs or.

Right.

And that's a crisis.

Budgeting issues, that kind of thing behind the scenes that maybe not employees are very aware of that kind of situation going on.

Obviously, a global pandemic is a crisis.

Everyone had to figure out how to be resilient and get.

And we did in good know.

So then and that's really it.

Yeah.

So I guess to the crisis from an employee employer standpoint, what is a fair boundary?

What is what is a fair ask of an employer to help manage, their, their staff through their own personal crisis?

I think it's super important for leadership to be, communicating regularly to employees, open communication, create psychological safety in an environment where employees are, feeling safe enough to speak up when they're feeling overwhelmed or when there's, you know, feeling stress and not be afraid of, you know, that coming back on them in some way.

So.

Sure.

Can you talk a little bit about the class that, that the course that has taught, and, and how often it's offered in that kind of stuff.

So, I teach the Resilience and Thriving workshop.

It is, it's actually resilience and thriving, the secret power of stress.

So it's like helping, it's like a 90 minute to an hour or two hour, course participant.

We talked.

It's a little interactive.

So it's, more activity based, like more conversational the participants.

We talk about coping mechanisms, how we're coping.

Is it healthy versus unhealthy?

How can we cope better, and make it more of the healthy, so that we can potentially move forward into being resilient?

Are there generational differences in coping mechanisms?

Great question.

Yeah for sure.

So what what is like something of a 50 year old to do in something like a brand new 21 year old employee do that's different that you're seeing?

You, you're the resentment or tone.

Gretchen.

You she was 50 I do it does it?

It depends on the person too, though.

So this was interesting.

I think doomscrolling is like a coping mechanism for a lot of people that are maybe younger and have that phone attached to them.

24 seven sure.

What is.

That's a great, part here.

How that is a coping mechanism.

You mentioned that.

Is that true?

Our phones, are is our the availability of information, whether it is accurate or not.

How is that playing into the current?

Either it's a it's a good thing, okay, to be connected, but too much connection, like like that.

Doomscrolling that can really take over and like, before you know it, you're scrolling for, what, 20 minutes gone out of your day.

That's too short.

You just say 20 years of being nice.

You oh, like half an hour to an hour just scrolling, and then you're neglecting other things you could be doing right.

And you feel bad because you sat there and you doomscrolling for so long, and then you can't believe that it's been that long.

You're like, wait a minute, I was going to stop this ten minutes ago.

And then the things that you should be doing, you know.

Yeah, it's it is it can be problematic.

We're talking with Jessica Pink home from work spring here on a wellness Wednesday on the 419.

You outlined a ton of different possibilities of crisis.

And and so I think about like, preparation for that is the right thing to do for you to kind of look at, you know, both in your personal life and professional life, like, here's all the possible crises that I could possibly have let me prepare for them.

Are are there some core elements of resiliency that apply to almost every crisis?

Yeah, I think it's hard.

It's a good question.

I think it's hard to you might go or like get overwhelmed thinking about all the things that could happen.

But at the same time, we do want to be prepared for when something happens.

So just working on yourself, working on your stress management techniques, your coping strategies.

Are you living a healthy lifestyle when you're living a healthier lifestyle, you're able to see when you're not coping very well?

And may need to make some changes there.

So I think it's.

Yeah.

What are some really simple things, maybe three things that someone can do to, better their stress management techniques to, first of all, be able to identify when you're starting to feel stressed, and identify your, your coping mechanisms that you normally go to like, are you in overeat or are you someone who needs to get like, you just back off of it like you avoid it?

So identify how you're coping.

And I'm sorry, was that what was it?

What are the tips like to to to manage it.

Yeah.

Okay.

If you, if you were able to identify it, what are some things easy things that our audience can do to begin to manage it better.

Exercise.

Get outside, enjoy nature.

Do something that you enjoy.

Is mass cleaning his logo right to your face is like, tell me more.

You've been my cousin Jessica, right?

I love that idea.

Or conceptually, obviously it is also, and I think you made mention of it is also possible that you've created coping mechanisms that are not good.

How do you bounce these things off?

How do you sort of vet them?

You mentioned eating, potentially, withdrawing, you know, avoidance.

How do you know what's a good way to bounce off the health of whatever your coping coping mechanisms are?

Because they can't all be good for you?

No, no they're not.

When you're overeating, when you're, Like depressed.

Yeah.

Sure.

You're withdrawn when you're avoidance things of that variety that I mean, there are things that you do maybe naturally you fall into a sort of bad habit, like what's the first step to sort of validate that?

Okay, I'm doing it again.

I'm avoiding this.

How do you get on the right path to a good coping mechanism?

I think start small.

Yeah.

Set a little a little goal for yourself.

Like I'm going to do this today.

Yes.

I think prioritize what's important to you.

Practice gratitude.

All that suggestion, journaling, those kinds of things.

You journal, I don't.

Yeah.

That's okay.

I wanted to, but yeah, it's not for everybody.

Yeah, sure.

You're busy to write about your kids like you do.

My kids are, five and seven.

Yeah, I love to do that.

So lot.

We're busy.

Yeah, yeah.

You're just coping.

Period.

Oh, yeah, I get it.

Oh, what's what's man?

Gretchen for you guys kind of year when you when you realize like that slowly on the verge of crisis.

But like, I'm, I'm overworked, overstressed.

What's that kind of first step thing that you do to try to foster wellness for yourself?

I sort of just clean the area, so, like, I have to get my desk all cleaned off.

I have to, like, make the list.

I have to clean the house, you know, because when you realize you're overwrought or overstressed, there's just stuff everywhere.

Yeah.

So cleaning you know the, the, the clean environment and the, and the tidied space I think then, then you can start to.

Yeah I certainly I can my first my knee jerk reaction is identifying things I do.

They're not positive.

But I think what I will rely on like a core group of trusted people to like level set, that I sort of work my way out from them.

To be perfectly honest.

I lean on my my people.

Yeah, yeah.

Jessica, how about you?

What's what's kind of your your go to?

Here's the thing I do to lock your children in the basement.

Yeah.

I, I do group fitness classes.

Yeah.

That's like my my get away.

Yeah, you have to have it.

So that's my my me time.

Yeah I do if, if somebody.

Kevin.

You didn't answer that.

Yeah.

Intentionally.

I was learning from them.

Like I could use one of these I never stressed.

Yeah.

That's that's right.

Yeah.

Give me some good ideas.

No, no I will I will take when it's really bad.

Yeah.

Like I've got a meeting or that like that.

I'll take it outside.

Okay.

So it's like right.

This is a for me.

I just need, like, I'm in this phone call.

I'm going to walk while I'm doing it.

I'm at, okay.

Like, move the zoom call, take the laptop outside somewhere.

That's kind of helpful for me.

It's near impossible to do in the winter.

And so because I'm, I'm a person, I'm not going outside.

But.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I think that's where like for me.

But that cleaning, tidying like, that's a I noticed that my desk, the files that are hundred, you know, I'm an I'm an organized chaos person.

So like, I know where that paper is in what pile.

But eventually there's too many piles.

I can tell there's a real warning sign for me that things are a muck is if I have a bunch of documents on my desktop that are all open, what?

Not if they're not even, there's they're out.

Oh, maybe they are not in some folder somewhere.

Then I know that things are starting to really tilt quickly.

Jessica, if people want more information on, works, bring in more information on, the classes that you talked about.

Where would they find it?

They can go to that work springboard, phone numbers on there and everything.

You can contact us, and we'd love to help you more.

Probably.

What are these kids names?

Oh, my daughter's Kinsley, and my son is Declan.

I love it.

Yeah, yeah.

Wonderful.

Awesome.

Jessica, thank you so much for joining us.

When we come back, we continue our partnership with the YWCA, celebrating the incredible women that are being honored with the 2026 Milestone Award.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

It's a wellness Wednesday, so why not talk about great people doing great things in our community?

We're joined by Jennifer McCreary.

You are one of the 2026 YWCA Milestones Award honorees.

Congratulations.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Thank you for your category of the art, the arts, martial arts.

I do that as well.

Yeah, I do you actually do martial arts as well.

I just like, well, yeah.

I didn't just say that.

She's a friend.

Yeah, well, that doesn't always mean which martial art.

Taekwondo.

Oh, my gosh.

So you could beat us all up.

Well, I knew that before the taekwondo.

Yeah.

Now, what do you use your martial arts skills for?

Good or evil?

I've not used them for a long time.

Okay?

My children are the one that doesn't answer the question, doctor.

I want them for good.

Okay?

Okay.

I just want to make sure.

Really good.

You can't talk about it because of all the crime you do.

All right, we'll get.

We get it.

Your title is chief Culture and Brand Experience.

Director affairs officer at the Toledo Museum of Art.

A wonderful, certainly, amazing institution here, in the city of Toledo.

How long have you been with the art museum?

Three years.

And you were, native Toledo when you were a native.

Where are you from?

I'm from Cleveland Heights, Ohio.

Yeah, it's a couple of hours away.

My family still there?

Most of them.

How close are you with the Kelsey brothers?

Actually, they went to my high school.

Yeah.

There you go.

How did you find your way to Toledo?

I went to Bowling Green State University for undergrad.

I used to visit Toledo and BG with friends and then decided to come here for school.

Left for a number of years, went back to Cleveland and then moved to Baltimore, Maryland.

Me and my husband had our children there.

A job opportunity came about.

They brought me back to the area about eight years ago now.

How many kids?

Two.

Two girls.

Two girls.

Yeah, that I did not know.

Yeah.

What are their names?

Madison and Malia, nine and 14.

And what color belt do they have in taekwondo?

Madison.

They're both in karate.

Madison is a black belt.

Malia is a right belt.

See?

14 to cute, 23.

For those of you who are listening, there's a single tear coming of the doctor's eyes.

Yeah, yeah.

Tell us a little bit.

About what that what your role specifically is.

It's an excellent title, but what what is your day to day.

What did that do?

Your job responsibilities.

My day to day changes.

So I oversee nine departments at the museum.

And they vary.

And so some days I'm deep in the marketing communications.

I some day the CSS ability side.

A lot of times it's the people and talent side, which is what we call human resources.

I spend a lot of time with our education team, our glass studios team.

My my day rotates between my department.

But I also help others across the organization.

My job is to really help people have difficult conversations or to have them for them.

My job is to help resolve things.

My job is to help with professional development and leadership development.

So I spend a lot of time thinking about, how people are experiencing our culture, how they're growing in their own roles, the things that they might want to accomplish need to accomplish, relate it to our mission.

It varies.

I do some of everything with every department.

I'm really fortunate to be able.

How would you describe what what the goal culture is for the Taylor Museum of our employees?

Yeah.

So we say, you know, culture is what we do say, believe collectively.

That's what shapes our culture.

But the hope is that everybody experiences belonging, that they're able to grow and thrive in their roles, that they come.

And I know that a lot of people are there because they're deeply committed to the mission of the museum, but that they're able to see how their work actually impacts the community.

And so, we do a lot of things to ensure that people just feel connected to one another and connected to the community we serve.

But what what personality?

This is going to make you uncomfortable because I know humble you are.

But, but that's not appropriate cause we're just celebrated in 100.

What makes you good at this?

That is a hard question.

Yeah, it's.

You know that, you know, that she could fight them.

I'll bring.

People.

No, man.

No.

Two ways for us to address them.

You back in the workplace, we talk about it.

Having conversations.

Right.

Where are the lines in your conversation?

I actually know seven different spots on your body.

I can hit you and you will die immediately.

Or you can just give up.

Yeah.

Or you're going to.

Yeah.

Guess beginning.

Okay.

Let's keep trying.

Different.

Yeah.

Different for all of us I noticed that not a word runners up.

So but then again I'm, I'm going to pin you down to this.

And I know it's a little bit uncomfortable, but you could talk about the characteristics of others if you'd like, but, again, you and I are in that meeting for the first time, and I have my own answer to this.

But what makes you good at this role, or particularly adept at sort of helping others to where they want to be and go?

You know, I think it comes down to a personal, personal mission, I believe, by which is to make life better for everyone else.

And so if I'm working to make life better for someone else, I'm going to do that with dignity and respect in my.

Yes.

And so everything that I do, my hope is that people, leave feeling better about our interaction.

I have some pretty challenging conversations time.

But you do.

And you know, it's not always related to, performance.

Sometimes it's truly people are just so passionate and they want something and, you know, they don't understand why they can't have a particular thing or why budgets don't allow for things or why another, person's vision is the one that was selected and helping have those conversations.

I just want people to feel like I truly value them because I do.

And I often tell the team and TMA, you are both valued and valuable.

And so I work to just ensure that people feel that way.

And I think that that distinguishes me from some other professionals, because I think that at times we get so caught up in what we want that we forget to really pay attention to what other people need.

And so I've just always centered the needs of others.

It's really, a busy and probably a little bit of an internally tumultuous time for the art museum, because you're in the midst of this reinstallation.

So there's galleries that are closed, there's changes of schedules.

You know, exhibits are opening.

I mean, it's it's probably insane over there right now.

It is.

So how is that making your job particularly interesting or difficult right now?

Yes.

So it is a chaotic time in some ways in the most exhilarating time.

And there's.

Yeah.

And so, we're all living in construction right now and then trying to also help visitors navigate what spaces are still open.

We're still welcoming new exhibitions, clearly.

And we'll continue to do that.

Our education space is so still really vibrant.

You know, staff, they get anxious sometimes and people don't know what's in the future for the museum.

I can tell you, because I get the behind the scenes look, but it's going to be something incredible and worth looking forward to in 2027.

But that's because I get to put on the hard hat and go up there in the space and see it, and I'm talking often.

I host our podcast, so I'm talking to we don't talk podcast.

I'm sorry.

That makes a lot of folks there.

I know are higher rated.

Somebody who is articulate and lovely.

I don't get maybe I think that on the show it's like a Trojan horse.

You had to exit.

Yes.

Yes, ma'am.

Yeah.

Both personally.

And do you want to have a personal conversation with Matt right now and about maybe guide him a little bit?

Yeah.

We're talking with Jennifer McCaffrey.

The 2026 Milestones Award honoree, for the art category.

The topic today for for our wellness Wednesday edition was on resilience.

I'm curious kind of your thoughts on, on how you build resilience, amongst employees and some of the things that you guys might be doing at the Art Museum to help your team sort of build resilience.

You become friends with Matt, bring up roughly a different crisis in your life, like a friend of Matt here, you know, seriously, resilience is something that's a necessary toolset.

And we try to teach that skill.

We actually have hosted people on campus to talk about resilience and how to become, more resilient, especially through the reinstallation.

So it's important for people to understand how to bounce back, how to be able to navigate change and know that it's also so much more than that.

And so thinking about wellness, we think about people's mental health and, try to do things periodically to make sure that people are just, well, in their work and their well doing as well.

And so I said, well, a lot in that.

That's okay.

We weren't listening.

I will tell you to when the challenges of my role is and I bet similar to yours people either that are in charge of collections or they have their own fiefdom has a negative connotation.

I don't mean in that way, but they're passionate about specific things.

In not all things can be created, are treated equally at all times.

So, having people feel seen and understanding, that's just not their trip to the plate.

How do you walk through that?

And make people feel heard and let them know that you mean you can't give everybody everything?

We can't.

It's not possible.

That's not possible.

Oftentimes it's honestly just telling people your time will come.

And I think that people understand that.

And we try to explain that there's a process for everything.

There's a process for our acquisitions.

There's a process for program selections, there's a process for hiring an internal promotion.

And so as people are perhaps getting that know, just helping them understand that the yes will come eventually and that there's something else that we may need to do in order to get there.

But that we will get there with the right coaching and the continued education and the resilience.

All of those things are so important.

And people get that when you have the conversation.

Let's turn now to the, to the YWCA milestones, luncheon, which is tomorrow.

Tell us a little bit about how you were notified of your award, who called you and what your response was.

Yeah, I was invited by the other award.

All the award winners are incredible people, in each category.

And so well deserved.

I was actually leaving the shine event where I was a panelist at night.

I come off the stage, got in my car, and I got a text message from Lisa McDuffie that said, hey, can you give me a call about the milestones and legit what ran through my head is, oh, she wants me to volunteer for the event.

Sure.

So I messaged her back, like, sure.

When do you want to talk?

It's tonight.

Okay, I'm in the car.

She's like, yes, call me now.

And so we talked and she said, hey, guess what?

You are the arts recipient.

And I was like, Lisa, do you know you're talking to Jennifer McCaffrey?

Do the runner.

Do you have the right Jennifer?

Yeah.

So it was a try not to do it.

And then she felt bad.

So she just let you have it, right.

Yeah.

Nothing right here.

Right.

Yeah.

Yours is at midnight.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So what are you most looking forward to?

About the day tomorrow.

I'm assuming you're and have family there.

It's such a huge event.

There's so many people in the room.

What are you excited or nervous about?

I am actually a major introvert, so I'm kind of nervous about the entire experience, but super excited to see a lot of folks who I love and care about families coming in, of course.

But there are so many people I care deeply about in this city.

I have a lot of connections, and so many people have reached out just to say that they're going to be in the room and so it means a lot to me, and I'm excited to celebrate.

The other recipients as well.

Are the Kelsey brothers to know.

Tell us a little bit about why the, the mission of the why, is important to you or how you how you feel.

Because it's from the YWCA.

Receiving this award.

Yeah, that's a great question.

And it's something I actually plan to address.

The YWCA has always been an organization committed to both women and justice.

Both things are deeply rooted in the work that I do.

And so throughout my career, I've had a strong commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging.

I have been able to practice those things in work settings.

I've been able to transform cultures, and the YWCA is known for the exact same things.

And so it makes a lot of sense to me.

To be connected with them.

And now, I'm honored to be connected with them in this way.

What are some things that you and the family like to do when you're, when you're not working, when you're not collecting awards?

What is like some downtime that you guys like to do together?

My husband and I love simple date nights, dinner, movies, putt putt.

We love to compete against each other, bowling, things of that nature.

And we love.

He beats me all the time.

In the in the competitions.

You're a black boy.

You're a black belt.

That's right.

But, we we do family night with our daughters on Fridays.

That's a great win down.

We have a local favorite that we eat at and then go and have treats at on Fridays.

And so, yeah, we just love our family time together.

In the evenings, we try to incorporate, game board at dinner time.

So we sit down, we eat together, but then we rotate who picks what game we play.

So that's fun.

Just a great day.

What's your favorite game?

I don't actually have a favorite game, but they've been beating me a lot.

And one, I think it's called, like, tackle.

It's there's a card, a category, and you have to quickly say something that starts with the category and hit the letter and, oh, yeah, we have that.

Yeah.

Yes.

I just I always run out of time at the later letter so.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

All right.

Very fun.

All right.

Doctor Jennifer McCaffrey at 2026 Milestone Award honoree A well-deserved honor.

There's no better way to celebrate than to put you on the hot seat.

It's now time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

I'm gonna ask you for rapid fire.

Okay?

Gretchen's going to ask you for your favorite thing in or about Toledo.

And then you and Matt are going to work together to describe Toledo in exactly nine words.

All right, all right.

Question number one.

If you had to teach a class in one thing, what would you teach?

All right.

Name a person who inspires you.

Kill them is how you pronounce the.

My parents.

Oh.

If you could choose any person from history to be your imaginary friend.

Oh, boy.

Who would it be?

One.

Oh.

Oh, goodness.

There's so many names running through my head.

Pick one, pick one.

I'm going to say Elizabeth Catlett.

All right.

Artist.

We know.

I have no idea.

Yeah.

Okay.

What is your best feature?

Oh, I don't know.

Oh, I don't know.

I don't know the people I surround myself by.

Very good.

What's your number one most favorite thing, or what you consider to be the best thing about the city of Toledo?

The Toledo Museum of Art rated number one by the USA today two years, two years in a row.

There you go.

All right.

I heard you say Metroparks.

All right, nine words.

Let's do it together.

All right, team, we're going to give you that one right off the rip.

So that's really one of the best things you just read.

The reason what else?

Nine words.

Oh.

I'm thinking when Kevin set that up, I was thinking, like, something about Toledo.

And then.

Yeah, it could be afraid.

Yeah, I'm thinking, Toledo.

Let's see.

A place filled with determined people and great pride.

Done.

You just made that up.

Hey, goodness gracious, you don't get those miles.

Let's say you don't get those milestones way to just anybody.

Oh my goodness, doctor Jennifer McCarry, thank you so much.

Somebody so nice to, comes out to tomorrow's event.

What's something that you hope they walk away with from tomorrow's Milestone Awards being inspired?

It's a really inspirational event I've attended year after year, and I'm always just thrilled for the people on the stage.

The YWCA is a whole new communit Awesome.

Tomorrow milestone awards.

It's probably sold out, so it might be a little late for you to join, but you can learn more about the organization and the awards at YWCA.

Oh.org.

We are so proud to be able to celebrate the incredible women being honored this year.

Doctor Jennifer McCarry, thank you so much for joining us.

When we come back, we will wrap up this Wellness Wednesday edition of the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Standby, standby.

It's a wellness Wednesday edition.

Another great episode.

Fantastic.

Having our friends from work.

Spring, And Doctor Jennifer McCarry was lovely.

We had a we had a conversation after the interview with her and found out about 19 additional facts that we didn't get to, so we'll definitely have to have her on.

Most interesting.

One of the most interesting.

She's also an artist and a stone sculpture ist.

Is that a word?

But anyway, sculptor.

Sculptor.

You're right, you didn't need to have this sculpture ist the cultured person.

But I'm so close.

Yeah, I go to Sculpture Austin on a regular basis.

Very, very cool lady.

Excited that she's going to get the award tomorrow.

Yeah, it's every year when that list comes out, like it's maybe one of the least surprising lists our community, it's like, here's eight incredible women.

You're like, yeah, yeah, that's right.

Nailed it again.

Yeah.

So excited.

Certainly awesome to have them on.

And inevitably, like, like we do with so many of our guests we have, man.

We spend 16 minutes with them.

And it's like, I could have used 16 more.

32 more.

And so which they're thinking, no, no, no, but it's only us that are thinking that about them.

Yeah.

No one has said, you know what I need more time with each other and more time with the 419.

Right.

But awesome for us to be able to partner with this incredible organization, this great award.

And I just think one of the other, you know, for me, sort of, you know, other parts of doing this program that's so exciting is getting to be a part of, some of these incredible institutions in our community, such as the why did you say milestone awards?

So people can really meet some really interesting people by listening to our show.

They can.

That's what people keep telling me.

Also missing out on your, part in your.

I don't speak Spanish.

What's the what's the what's the phrase of the day?

Gretchen cash on the barrel had cash on the barrel.

Has everybody Trump and say, yeah, do you Trump.

No no no no don't don't do it.

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