good evening and I'm so glad you're going to stay with us for the next half hour here on PBS Fort Wayne.

>> I'm Sandy Thomson in the name of the show is LIFE Ahead.

Why that name?

Well, it's because we like to give you information and education here on PBS throughout our hour programing all week long.

But specifically on this show we like to give you some information or education.

It might help you with decisions that you have to make in your LIFE Ahead.

And this evening we're looking at some life decisions for afterlife, if you will.

In fact, we're going to be talking about how to manage your end of life affairs.

So we have with us this evening an attorney that she has met before and you'll meet him again here in just a moment.

We'll look at the legal aspects of that and we have a funeral director here tonight as well.

Now this is really your show.

I get to ask them questions until you give us calls but we encourage and love it when you give us calls and the number you can see is down there on the bottom of the screen and that'll be up here off and on throughout the rest of the show.

Sixteen 27 twenty .

Any questions you have pertaining to that subject?

Please give us a call here and we love it if you stay on the phone with us and talk to us live here on the air.

That way if Jared or Troy have questions back to you you're right there on the phone.

>> If you're not comfortable doing that we don't care.

You could even give us a fake name if you want and if you want to just give us our question.

The phone operator will type that up and send it out here to the studio to me and I can read it off the teleprompter to my guests.

>> OK, I know you want to meet him now.

>> I've chatted enough about what the show is about but again our guests you've met Troy this is Troy by the way Troy Kiefer who who is the attorney specializing in elder law.

>> Yep.

That's the area I work in primarily and it's a great pleasure to be here with you.

Thank you, Troy.

>> He always has such good stuff to share with us.

So thank you very much.

And he's invited to come with him.

>> Jared Stevens, it's so nice to have you.

Yeah, thank you.

Funeral directors.

>> So you're open to any questions people might have of that subject when you get those questions every day.

>> Every day.

Yes.

OK then I do want you to feel comfortable to ask any any questions that you might have about end of life and we want to talk about preplanning funerals mainly this evening.

>> Why are we talking about this?

>> Troy does this legally and as the funeral home how do you work together?

>> Right.

Well, from a legal standpoint of course we work a lot with estate documents.

OK, so wills powers of attorney appointment of health care representatives and those straddle the line between when a person's living and then what happens after a person passes away.

Right.

And so we handle the legal part of things and of course Jared handles the the personal and the those other types of things as well as decisions after life decisions if you will.

>> Now correct me if I'm wrong but from the from so many attorneys being here on the show to to emphasize again power of attorney is why you're still living the life of the person that maybe if you're not capable anymore can help you with finances or getting bills paid represent you if you will and then after you pass away it's the trustee that then takes care of all of that.

>> Right.

Could be a trustee of a trust might be the personal representa.

Oh OK.

The PR if you OK and then now with the new law dealing with health care representatives it might be a health care representative to has some could have some authority to make after your life decisions.

>> All right.

So then Jared, let's say that someone has passed away who comes and talks to you.

Is it the attorney?

Is that the person representative the power of attorney?

>> Yes.

Or typically it's the family the next of kin that would come and we would sit down with them in a situation where there's a prearranged funeral, you know, again we would we would be speaking to the to the family member or the person maybe Choi has help appointed to make those arrangements and so we're working with them.

We're using the prearranged funeral is as a guide to the for the decisions and and for maybe what was selected and ultimately what was maybe even pre paid.

>> Yeah, OK, well let's let's focus on that here for a little while.

Preplanning in prepaid then to that from what I'm just hearing generally seems to be kind of a trend now that more people are doing that.

>> Is that correct?

Yeah, definitely we're seeing more and more of that.

I think people look at it as a responsibility that they have to their to their family and to their loved ones to get the the the details kind of taken care of and in lane a good start for as people get older start in making those decisions and so you know, many funeral homes, all funeral homes I know in the area we'll sit down with you most it's a it's a free service where they'll sit down with you and they'll ask questions and find out exactly what kind of funeral what kind of end of life arrangements you want to have and then it's you can take it one step further and actually prepay for those services.

>> You most people do that I mean prepay and most people do that.

>> Yes.

OK, yeah.

All right.

So here's a hypothetic.

>> Let's say you have made those arrangements at the afterlife arrangements with a funeral home and you've made all the plans from the music to choosing a casket every day.

>> Yeah, but then you go on a business.

>> What happens to all that money you prepaid?

Yeah.

So when someone someone someone prepays their funeral where the money is actually going, a family is not putting that money in giving it to the funeral home.

OK, it's actually it's actually going into a funeral trust in many funeral homes work with a trust company that you know and so if a funeral home would go out of business or a funeral home would would change ownership or something would happen where you wouldn't feel comfortable anymore that can easily these these products and the trust money it's very consumer friendly.

It can be transferred to any other funeral.

That's comforting I think for a lot of people because you know, I've talked to people that are like a little unsure like what if I change my mind in the next five years or ten years until Grandpa's not here anymore?

>> That's right.

You know, try when when a client comes to you, you maybe they're initially coming to do estate planning or take care of some of those documents power of attorney or making doing their will things like that.

Do they often ask you about preplanning funerals or do you just refer them?

>> How does that work?

Yeah, I would say I'm not asked in the majority of the time, OK, it's it's seldom asked and I think people have a problem facing their mortality some people more than others and I think it's a lot for them to at least come and talk to me, talk about their will and and get that range and I do mention it and but sometimes it's just one step too far.

They have to ease into it.

Sure.

And so it's something I certainly recommend but it's a process it's part of the overall plan.

>> Yeah.

Way to work your work your way through that process.

>> Yeah.

It can be pretty tough and you are the face person for a lot of people that having to deal with the legal parts of it and Jared talked about it being a hard process.

>> I've known two different cases where someone has his preplanned and pre paid for their funeral and their family was thrilled because they're so emotional anyway and they're grieving and they're having a really hard time and they don't want to go to the funeral home and make all these decisions the same day or in a couple of days and they really appreciated that they knew exactly what what music they wanted.

>> They knew, you know, what they wanted to be dressed in or just all of it.

>> What are some of the decisions people would make?

>> Yeah, well you've named a lot of them but you know what kind of service do you want to have?

You want to have a service at a church or a funeral home.

Are you wanting to be cremated or are you wanting to be buried?

What type of casket what type of urn music.

Food.

I mean there there is like what you've said a lot and you're right Sandy when it is such a gift to families and I guess yeah my job mainly at the funeral home is to sit down with a family after a death has occurred.

So I get to see firsthand what you just described as you know, it's such a blessing to families who in a time where they are very much grieving, they have a lot of other decisions that are upon them.

It's nice to have that all planned out and it's just a different feeling in that arrangement room when a funeral is preplanned prepaid, taken care of , there's just a relief over the room.

>> You know, one of the things I think that I've heard mentioned that it takes away any guilt like you know, maybe the even between the siblings there if they're trying to make these decisions with you or someone and choosing whatever it is the casket or the best of that and one brother says this and then the sister says no mom would like this better and they're arguing over like what mom or dad right would like and yet if it's preplanned it's like hey, this is what mom wanted even if I don't like it, that's what she wanted.

>> That's what we're doing.

That's right.

Yeah.

And it really is another thing that it does is there are so many when you're in a time of of of hurt and grieving you know you'll make decisions based on that emotion that you typically don't feel because you're going through something so difficult and so to make to make those decisions where there is no emotional stress.

>> Yeah.

It's just much easier.

Well, I can see it being maybe a benefit for the actual person themselves, the older person or maybe they're not so elderly that goes and makes the decisions and plans it all and whatever may be for them to even take a family member to with them.

>> Yeah that happens sometimes absolutely.

>> Yeah we may in fact we encourage that to bring you know to bring other family members with you when you come to to do the planning it just it's nice to have a few other voices and you know to talk through it is a is a family and then they would the family would also know that hey this is what mom or whatever grandpa wanted I heard him say you yeah.

>> OK. All right.

What about legalities, Troy?

Do you have to have any kind of a legal document if you've preplanned your funeral?

>> Well, that certainly helps pre planning your funeral pre planning is more about providing the resources, paying for it, giving direction.

It isn't necessarily something that is legally binding so it's something that you would really want to talk to your attorney about.

OK, make sure that the person appoint his health care representative knows what your wishes are.

There's also a funeral planning declaration.

>> What is that?

That's a separate form provided for by state statute.

Oh, it's very simple.

It gives you a way to fill out what your wishes are and once you sign that and it has to be witnessed that does have the effect of law and Jared can really speak to that because he has more experience working with those than I do because he's on that side of things.

>> But can you change that?

You change your mind?

Yes, absolutely.

Oh, OK. Yeah yeah it is revokable you can make changes at any time but that that is a big step towards making sure at least legally that you're getting what you what you want would like.

>> Right OK. Yeah jump in here Jared since you deal with that specifically.

Yeah I would just definitely encourage again kind of just going off of what Troy is saying is the funeral declaration a lot of that has to do with kind of what you want to happen.

Yeah, we also reckon man, you know, putting together a health care representative that can represent you the person to make the final arrangements to make the decisions if you don't have a funeral declaration.

But but both is great too.

I mean the important thing is getting out ahead, making the decisions who is going to be in charge of this funeral?

Who is going to be making these decisions and and what do I want?

>> Yeah.

So yeah, we've had a call here tonight from James James, thank you so much for watching when I go ahead here and I appreciate you giving us the call here.

James wants to know how often do people write their own wills?

>> This questions for you, Troy.

Yes.

Yeah, well thank you, James.

That that's a very good question.

Frankly, I don't see that very often it legally a person can write their own will and there's nothing magic about having an attorney involved in it.

The important part though is that there are certain formality that have to be followed in order for that document to be legally effective and that means that it has to be of course signed.

There have to be a couple of witnesses and you only get one shot at it by time you figure out that it's not been properly prepared.

It's too late to make any changes so a person can express their wishes in a will.

But you want to make sure that it's done legally and so that it has proper effect.

>> OK, all right.

>> That makes sense as far as we know as you've told us before Troy, you can change them but make sure that what your final document is is what you want.

>> Yes, OK. Yep.

Right.

Yeah you can change wills at any time would you for example.

>> Well since we're talking about preplanned funerals in prepaid funerals would you in a well put specific information like that like a certain funeral home that you would choose or anything specific like that?

>> That's also a very good question, Sandy , because that's a misconception that I often see.

Oh yeah.

People will often just assume that those types of directions will be in their will.

But the fact of the matter is the will really isn't even looked at until much later after the funeral.

So and in fact when people call me and say know mom passed away last night, what do we do?

Yeah, I tell them contact the funeral home and then just spend the next couple of weeks being with family.

Yeah.

Don't worry about the legal side of things.

>> We'll deal with the will later but frankly by time the will comes into it.

>> It's already done and over and maybe some other decisions were made that weren't really what they wanted in the way.

All right.

That's good.

That's all right.

So remember that folks remember that for sure.

There are other documents that we've talked about tonight that will take the place of the will and do a much better job.

>> OK, all right.

>> Jared, with your meeting so many clients every week, every month as a funeral director, what are some of the most common I don't want to say problems but difficulties that come up that you'd like to share with viewers like you just did this or this or this it would be easier.

>> Yeah, you know, it's it's a hard time for everyone.

I want to acknowledge that it's just it's not an easy time.

So you know, the more that you can do ahead of time the better I would say some of the things like you especially is is not talking about, you know, funeral decisions as a family getting especially men I think we tend to want to just do what simplest what would maybe relieve burden from other family members.

But but the reality is a funeral is for those that are are still living and so to to create a proper environment of healing and just support if you want to think about those that are what would be best for those that are left behind or that's a really good way to look at it and it's good to be reminded of that.

>> Do you have many legal situations, Troy, after someone has passed away and after they've had a funeral that family comes to you about or do you think most things are planned and prepared for beforehand?

>> Well, there certainly is that potential of conflict and I think Jared pointed out that family is going through a very difficult, stressful time, probably one of the worst times in their lives.

Yeah, And that that can bring out a lot of good in people and it can bring out some bad too and everything just seems to be amplified during those periods of time.

And if there's any friction between family members that's usually when it's going to come out so and so sometimes we do deal with issues during the funeral period directly after.

So it's a time of transition and really a time like I said that things could really come to the surface or maybe if I'm guessing correctly since we've talked about this sort of thing before that some decisions you might have to take to a probatet the siblings to decide.

>> Is that correct?

There is that potential?

Yes, If no one's been appointed to make those decisions.

Yeah, I know state statute it has a last resort priority list of people who makes decisions but there is that potential that it could end up in court just like any other controversy.

>> OK, all right.

Well we've talked about pre planning your funeral and you mentioned it earlier and one of your answers, Jared cremation how is that different in terms of somebody preplanning a funeral as opposed to somebody who's going to purchase a cemetery plot and have a traditional funeral?

>> Yeah, you know, cremation now it's it's it's been around long enough in the industry here.

>> We have figured out a few things and noticed different trends actually Sandy a lot of times with cremation probably most of the time people still have funeral but instead just like you would typically have with burial where you have some sort gathering together and maybe you have someone come and speak and share memories and so it's kind of more of a traditional funeral.

But instead of going to the cemetery the funeral would just end at the church or at the funeral home and the cremation would take place.

>> So there's still even with cremation there are a lot of options.

Sometimes we like what I mean what are different.

>> Yeah.

So so for instance do you have want to have a service with a viewing do you want to have just a what we would call a memorial service or a celebration of life.

Do you want to have a private gathering for your family and then something different for the public?

Do you want to have just a very simple cremation?

So those are all things that you would have to decide on and plan.

You also have what kind of urn you would want to select again music and different different those types of decisions.

>> So really whether you choose burial or cremation, it doesn't matter to us.

It's just what we just really try to encourage is getting those those plans down and plan beforehand.

>> Yeah.

And doing what that person would want.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> And like you said, there are so many different ways now that it's becoming more common.

Yes.

I attend a funeral last year where they they actually had a viewing you know, open house kind of a viewing for for the public and had the service at the funeral home and a nice service then they cremated the body and then later a couple of weeks later then they had just a private family service.

>> Yeah.

To bury the urn.

I think that's what they ended up doing.

That's a very common way now.

>> Yes.

OK, well we can't not talk about money but we can't talk about money by the way.

Not specifically and the reason we don't is because things can change.

>> I mean if we gave you an amount right now of what it would cost for trying to do your will or you know what a certain funeral would cost that may change in the next week or next couple of months and you may be watching this show again and we've given you information that's not correct anymore so we don't want to give a specific number amount.

>> But here's my question, Jared.

If you prepay for your funeral but you don't die for five or seven more years and charges have changed, can you be charged more or how does that work?

>> Yeah, so that's one of the great benefits about it is is that you can lock in funeral home service costs and so whether you live another if you preplan and prepay whether you live another two years or another 20 years, those services are typically going to be guaranteed you're guaranteed a home.

Yeah.

So it's really a wonderful benefit.

>> That's good to know.

Yeah it's very good to know maybe another way to economize or save some money ahead of time.

Yeah Mark is that called in and ma'am thank you so much for watching us here on LIFE Ahead.

And he says if someone pre play or prepays their funeral can they later on transfer the money for nursing home costs?

>> That's a good question.

I think that's going to come down to what right they have to undo that preplanning and if that depend on the funeral home ,is it different for different funeral?

>> Yeah, I would imagine it would depend on the funeral home and that trust that the commitment and exactly what right they have to withdraw those funds and I think if they could withdraw the funds typically they could withdraw them and spend that money on anything including nursing homes.

>> So it's like revokable or revokable.

>> Right.

Most most people put the money in an irrevocable trust.

And so when you do that then the answer to to Mark's question is no, you couldn't take that that money out.

But the advantage of putting it into an irrevocable funeral trust is the money is protected if someone does go on to Medicaid or other benefits bankruptcy and you know, different things that you put in there and yeah, it's still there and it doesn't it doesn't count as an asset.

>> Yeah.

You know, I have probably a thousand more questions I could ask you and I know that many of you at home probably have more questions.

Good topic.

Thank you for bringing that to us, Troy.

And I want to thank Jared as well for being here.

Thank you, Sandy .

>> Good information and I hope that you all enjoyed the show and by the way, our shows on YouTube now so you can watch this episode or any previous episodes on YouTube just put in the iPad and what our date is or our topic and it's easy to find.

>> Thank you all for watching us.

>> That will see you next Wednesday night at seven thirty.

Good night