>>FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>>Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE POLICY AND LEGAL DIRECTORS OF THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO TELL US WHAT CIVIL RIGHTS PROTECTIONS COULD BE IN JEOPARDY IN A SECOND TRUMP TERM.

AND >>Arturo: I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LET, MAJOR POLLUTERS, OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, RUN AMOK.

AND I THINK IT'S, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE AT THE END OF THIS.

>>Lou: PROTECTING THIS LAND.

EARTH DAY CO-FOUNDER ARTURO SANDOVAL CONSIDERS HOW NEW MEXICANS CAN BEST SHIELD OUR STATE FROM IMPENDING FEDERAL SLASHES TO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

A NEW STUDY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO SHOWS VIRTUAL TEACHING PROGRAMS FOR MEDICAL PROVIDERS IN RURAL COMMUNITIES ARE EFFECTIVE.

‘PROJECT ECHO’ HAS DEVELOPED THAT MODEL FOR YEARS AND HAS EXPANDED IT TO DIABETES CARE.

THIS NEW STUDY SHOWS THAT IT'S BENEFITING PATIENTS IN THE SECOND HALF OF TODAY'S SHOW.

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SPEAKS WITH TWO DOCTORS ABOUT HOW THE PROJECT'S EARLY POSITIVE RESULTS ARE ALREADY MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS, ARTURO SANDOVAL HAS BEEN PIVOTAL IN THE CREATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS AND PROTECTIONS FOR NEW MEXICO AND LANDS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES, OUR LAND’S LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH SANDOVAL TO CONSIDER THE FUTURE OF THOSE PROTECTIONS AS ENVIRONMENTALISTS DREAD A SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT LOOKING AHEAD TO THE POTENTIAL FALLOUT FROM THIS YEAR'S ELECTION IN A DIFFERENT AREA -- CIVIL RIGHTS.

NEW MEXICO IS ONE OF THE ONLY STATES THAT STAYED FIRMLY BLUE ON NOVEMBER FIFTH, YET ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE SPLIT AS TO HOW A SECOND TRUMP TERM WILL SHAPE PEOPLE'S PROTECTED CIVIL LIBERTIES IN THE FIRST OF A TWO-PART CONVERSATION.

JEFF ASKS LENA WEBER-SALAZAR AND MARÍA MARTÍNEZ SÁNCHEZ OF THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO.

WHAT CONSTITUTIONAL AND POLICY CONCERNS THEY HAVE AS WE APPROACH INAUGURATION DAY.

>>Jeff: MARÍA.

LENA, THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

AND WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>>Salazar: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, MARÍA.

YOU ARE THE LEGAL DIRECTOR FOR THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF NEW MEXICO.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT EROSION OF CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES UNDER A SECOND DONALD TRUMP TERM IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

I'M CURIOUS JUST HOW YOU'VE BEEN FEELING SINCE ELECTION DAY AND HOW THE FOLKS IN YOUR CIRCLE HAVE BEEN FEELING.

>>Sánchez: SURE.

THANK YOU.

JEFF.

SO I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF WAYS TO ANSWER THAT.

ONE, AS YOU KNOW, JUST A PERSON LIVING IN THIS COMMUNITY, AN AMERICAN, A PERSON WHO REALLY JUST WANTS OUR STATE, OUR COUNTRY TO SUCCEED.

SO THAT THAT PART OF ME, NOT AFFILIATED WITH THE ACLU IS, IS, HAS BEEN, VERY SAD, ANGRY, FRUSTRATED.

I'VE HONESTLY JUST FELT SOMEWHAT BETRAYED BY PEOPLE THAT I THOUGHT, WOULD NOT CHOOSE, THIS, THIS TYPE OF FUTURE FOR OUR COUNTRY.

AND SO IT'S JUST BEEN IT'S BEEN A REALLY HARD TWO WEEKS FOR ME, PERSONALLY, AS THE LEGAL DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU, YOU KNOW, I, I HOLD TO THAT HAT AS WELL.

WE'RE A NONPARTISAN ORGANIZATION, OBVIOUSLY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE IN PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND CIVIL RIGHTS, AND WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR THEM FOR 100 YEARS NOW.

IN THAT ROLE, I'M ALSO FEARFUL OF WHAT'S TO COME.

WE KNOW THAT THE FOUNDATIONS UPON WHICH THESE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE RELIED ON FOR SO LONG ARE VERY FRAGILE AND CLOSE TO, JUST CRUMBLING.

AND SO WE ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A PATH FORWARD.

AND I THINK WE WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO BE VERY CLEAR EYED ABOUT THE FUTURE AND WHAT A NEW TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MEANS AND NOT TRYING TO SUGARCOAT ANYTHING.

WE'RE ALL SCARED.

BUT WE ARE ALSO READY TO FIGHT.

AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE MORE THAN JUST ONE ORGANIZATION OR MULTIPLE ORGANIZATIONS.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US.

YOU KNOW, IN THIS STATE, IN THIS COMMUNITY, TO BAND TOGETHER AND PROTECT ONE ANOTHER IN THESE, REALLY TROUBLING, FRIGHTENING TIMES.

>>Jeff: LENA, MARÍA MENTIONED FEAR AND SAID THE WORD SCARED A TIME OR TWO.

I'M HEARING SO MUCH OF THAT, FROM PEOPLE I SPEAK TO.

YOU WORK ON POLICY AT THE ACLU HERE.

I'M CURIOUS, IN THAT ROLE.

AND ALSO JUST AS A HUMAN BEING.

WHAT KIND OF STRATEGIES AND ACTIONS ARE YOU EMPLOYING TO SORT OF HOLD AWAY THAT KIND OF DESPAIR?

>>Salazar: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IN LINE WITH WHAT MARÍA IS SAYING ABOUT THIS IS REALLY A MOMENT FOR EVERYONE TO BE COMING TOGETHER.

WE'RE ALL NEEDED.

AND MYSELF PERSONALLY AND MY PERSONAL LIFE AND MYSELF, WITH MY HAT, WITH THE ACLU DOING POLICY WORK.

THE RESPITE, I THINK SO FAR HAS BEEN IN, BEING IN COMMUNITY.

SPENDING TIME WITH LOVED ONES, SPENDING TIME WITH WITH FRIENDS, WITH OUR PARTNER ORGANIZATIONS, WITH THE COMMUNITY ADVOCATES WE WORKED SO CLOSELY WITH.

AND JUST BEING TOGETHER, THAT HAS BEEN.

THAT HAS BEEN JUST IN THESE DAYS, THE BEST STRATEGY FOR MYSELF TO HOLD OFF SOME OF THAT FEAR AND DESPAIR, WHICH IS HEAVY, DEFINITELY HEAVY, AND DEFINITELY THERE.

BUT BEING IN COMMUNITY, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR YOU, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

SPENDING TIME WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>>Jeff: GOTCHA.

I'M GOING TO STICK WITH YOU FOR A MINUTE.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU TWO HAVE DIFFERENT JOBS, AT THE ACLU HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

SO I'LL ASK YOU BOTH TO SORT OF WEIGH IN FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.

BUT, LENNY, YOU FIRST, WHAT ARE THE MAYBE TWO BIGGEST ISSUES THAT HAVE YOUR ATTENTION RIGHT NOW AS WE THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER INAUGURATION DAY?

>>Salazar: ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S, YOU KNOW, BOILING THINGS DOWN TO TWO IS IS TRICKY.

THERE'S A LOT THAT WE'RE LOOKING OUT.

OF COURSE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, SOME VERY CLEAR THREATS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE SERIOUSLY AND BELIEVE AROUND MASS DEPORTATIONS, TEARING OUR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES APART, AROUND FURTHER RESTRICTING ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE, ABORTION CARE, GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, HEALTH CARE THAT IS SO ESSENTIAL AND IMPORTANT FOR OUR COMMUNITIES TO THRIVE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT CENSORSHIP THREATS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THREATS OF OF CUTTING OFF ACCESS TO IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR OUR COMMUNITIES, FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE IN SCHOOLS, WHAT THEY'RE LEARNING ABOUT.

AND SO SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A LOT, BUT I'LL ALSO SAY THAT ONE ONE THING WE'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT AND LOOKING AT IS PRIVACY AND HOW THAT CUTS ACROSS ALL OF THESE ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, NEW MEXICANS, WE ALL DESERVE PRIVACY.

EVERYONE DESERVES PRIVACY.

EVERYONE DESERVES TO FEEL THAT OUR PERSONAL INFORMATION IS PROTECTED AND SAFE AND ISN'T GOING TO BE USED AGAINST US.

AND THERE'S SO MUCH OF OUR INFORMATION THAT'S OUT THERE, RIGHT?

IT'S COMPANIES COLLECT OUR INFORMATION, THE STATE COLLECTS OUR INFORMATION, POLICE COLLECT OUR INFORMATION.

AND AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH OUR PHYSICAL LOCATIONS WHERE WE GO, WHAT SERVICES WE'RE ACCESSING, OUR HEALTH CONDITIONS.

ALL OF THAT CAN BE AND IS ACTIVELY COLLECTED ON US.

AND, AND CAN BE USED AGAINST US.

CAN BE USED TO CRIMINALIZE FOLKS, CAN BE USED, TO HARASS PEOPLE, TO INTIMIDATE THEM, TO SPREAD DISINFORMATION.

AND SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN BEST BE KEEPING NEW MEXICANS PERSONAL INFORMATION SAFE AND PRIVATE, SO THAT IT'S NOT MISUSED, WHETHER BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, COMPANIES OR OTHERS WHO WOULD USE IT AGAINST US.

>>Jeff: AND MARÍA, LIKE LENA MENTIONED, THERE IS A LAUNDRY LIST AND WE COULD SPEND AN HOUR AND A HALF AT THE TABLE KIND OF GOING RIGHT DOWN THE LIST.

BUT I'M CURIOUS, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, SORT OF LEGALLY OR CONSTITUTIONALLY, ARE THERE 1 OR 2 THINGS THAT ARE BUBBLING UP TO THE TOP OF THE LIST AS YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR?

>>Sánchez: I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A LOT OF THE SAME.

I THINK THE TWO THINGS THAT OBVIOUSLY COME TO THE TOP OF THE LIST, BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THE TRUMP, THE TRUMP CAMPAIGNED ON WAS MASS DEPORTATIONS AND, RESTRICTING ACCESS TO, TO HEALTH CARE AND ABORTION IN PARTICULAR.

I THINK ONE BRIGHT SPOT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION IN ALL OF THIS IS, WE HAVE STATE COURTS AND WE HAVE A STATE CONSTITUTION IN THIS STATE THAT IS MORE PROTECTIVE OF OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION.

AND THEN WE'RE REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO RELY ON THAT, MOVING FORWARD.

WE'VE TALKED A LOT INTERNALLY ABOUT PROACTIVE VERSUS REACTIVE WORK.

AND, OBVIOUSLY WE ALWAYS WANT TO BE DOING PROACTIVE WORK AND EXPANDING RIGHTS AND MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIVING IN NEW MEXICO, YOU KNOW, CAN CAN ENJOY THE UTMOST FREEDOMS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO, TO, YOU KNOW, TO GET.

BUT, WE'RE REALLY HAVING TO KIND OF REPOSITION OURSELVES AND JUST BE READY TO REACT NOW.

AND SO SOME OF THOSE PROACTIVE THINGS AND MEASURES AND WORK, WE WERE HOPING TO DO ARE JUST TO BE FULLY HONEST, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO BE BACKWARD AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REACT RIGHT NOW TO TO WHAT'S TO COME.

BUT WE DO AGAIN, HAVE OUR STATE COURTS.

AND THERE IS AN ABILITY, FOR OUR APPELLATE COURTS TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THAT'S WHAT THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION SAYS.

BUT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE ARE GOING TO PROVIDE GREATER PROTECTIONS FOR PEOPLE.

SO THERE'S THERE'S SOME HOPE FOR ME IN THAT RESPECT.

>>Jeff: YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE.

WE'VE GOT A FEW MINUTES LEFT AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE IDEA OF INOCULATION A LITTLE BIT.

WE DID SEE A SIGNIFICANT TRUMP-WARD SHIFT IN THE ELECTORATE IN NEW MEXICO THIS CYCLE, BUT OUR STATE STILL PRETTY OVERRUN, SEEMINGLY REJECTED HIS AGENDA.

WE'VE ALL SEEN NEWS STORIES IN WHICH GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM HAS VOWED TO RESIST TRUMP, AND STATE HOUSE SPEAKER JAVIER MARTÍNEZ TOLD NASH JONES OVER AT KUNM THAT OUR STATE IS TRUMP-PROOF.

THAT WAS SORT OF THE LINE THAT HE USED.

SO, MARÍA, I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU FOR A MINUTE AND JUST ASK THE QUESTION, IS OUR STATE TRUMP-PROOF?

>>Sánchez: WELL, I APPRECIATE WHAT SPEAKER MARTÍNEZ WAS SAYING THERE.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO AN EXTENT, WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF GREAT WORK IN NEW MEXICO TO ENSHRINE CERTAIN PROTECTIONS.

AND, OUR, YOU KNOW, THE ACLU, ALONG WITH LOTS OF OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, HAVE HAVE WORKED REALLY HARD, TO ENSURE THAT, CERTAIN STATUTES ARE PASSED TO PROTECT, GREATER PROTECTIONS FOR NEW MEXICANS.

BUT I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT WHERE TRUMP-PROOF TO BE, AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO SUGARCOAT ANYTHING, I THINK.

I THINK, WHAT WE ALL NEED TO DO IN THIS MOMENT IS BE VERY HONEST ABOUT WHERE WE ARE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE IN THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES SOMETHING LIKE A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN, THAT WOULD SUPERSEDE ANYTHING, THAT IS THAT A STATE COULD DO IN TERMS EVEN ENSHRINING ABORTION ACCESS IN OUR STATE CONSTITUTION, THAT THE FEDERAL STATUTE WOULD SUPERSEDE THAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IN ITSELF IS NOT TRUMP-PROOF, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO, LOCALLY TO, TO STRENGTHEN THE PROTECTIONS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE.

AND WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THOSE PROTECTIONS.

AND SO I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE SPEAKER WAS COMING FROM ON THAT, AND I APPRECIATE WHAT HE'S SAYING.

BUT I DO THINK THAT, WE AREN'T TRUMP-PROOF.

>>Jeff: LENA, I WANT TO LET YOU WEIGH IN ON THAT A LITTLE BIT TO SORT OF FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE, HOW DO YOU FEEL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT OR HERE THE NOTION OF, TRUMP-PROOF STATE IS THAT A POLITICIAN TRYING TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER?

IS THAT SOMETHING ELSE?

ARE WE TRUMP-PROOF FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

>>Salazar: YEAH, I THINK, AGAIN, IN LINE WITH MARÍA, I THINK THE SPEAKER WHAT HE'S I THINK HE WAS POINTING TO ARE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE REALLY PROUD OF IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE NEW MEXICO HAS CONSISTENTLY BEEN AHEAD OF THE CURVE IN THE PROTECTIONS THAT WE HAVE BEEN PASSING.

AND, AND THE STRENGTHENING OF FREEDOMS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES HERE AT HOME.

WHETHER THAT'S BEEN THROUGH SHIELD PROTECTIONS FOR REPRODUCTIVE AND GENDER AFFIRMING HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND PATIENTS.

WE DO HAVE STRONG ANTI-DISCRIMINATION PROTECTIONS HERE.

WE HAVE OUR CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

WE HAVE SOME REALLY AMAZING WORK THAT COMMUNITIES HERE HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES TO PASS.

AND I DO THINK THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE REALLY PROUD OF.

AND I DO THINK THAT OFFERS US SOME LEVEL OF PROTECTION.

AND I THINK WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BUILD ON THOSE PROTECTIONS.

AND WE HAVE TO BE REALLY, CLEAR EYED AS WE KEEP SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE THE THREATS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE FACING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ARE VERY SEVERE.

AND WE CAN THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO SHORE UP THOSE PROTECTIONS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE TO BUILD ON THEM, TO STRENGTHEN THEM.

AND, AND WE HAVE TO FACE THE REALITY AS WELL THAT AS WE'VE AS WE HAVE BEEN AHEAD OF THE CURVE, WE CAN CONTINUE TO BE AHEAD OF THE CURVE AND AND KEEP IN MIND THE POSSIBILITY THAT OUR STATE GOVERNMENT COULD ALSO LOOK DIFFERENT, DOWN THE LINE AND IN, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF YEARS AND WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE TAKING EVERY POSSIBLE MEASURE AND ACTION NOW, TO, TO PREVENT ANYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN.

>>Jeff: THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, THE NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, KEEPS COMING UP.

I DO ACTUALLY HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

MARÍA, I WANT YOU TO TALK FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE, ABOUT WHAT THAT IS AND HOW THAT IS DIFFERENT.

AND WHETHER YOU EXPECT TO SEE MORE CASES BEING FILED UNDER THE CRA.

>>Sánchez: ABSOLUTELY.

I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THE NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACT IS.

AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES WHERE WE HAVE ACTUALLY WE ARE AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

THERE'S ONLY A HANDFUL OF STATES THAT HAVE STATE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

WE HAVE ALREADY, SINCE ITS INCEPTION, STARTED FILING CASES UNDER IT EVEN BEFORE WE KNEW THE RESULTS OF THIS ELECTION.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE EVEN MORE IMPORTANT NOW BECAUSE THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN STAY IN STATE COURT.

WE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S PRETTY COMMONLY KNOWN THAT THE FEDERAL COURTS ARE, NOT THE GREATEST PLACE TO BE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS RIGHT NOW.

AND SO THAT'S WHY, AGAIN, IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE, THAT OUR STATE COURTS CONTINUE TO, STRENGTHEN PROTECTIONS, CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO.

SO, YES, THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT IS, CRITICAL.

AND, I, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE LITIGATION UNDER THAT, THAT STATUTE.

>>Jeff: I APPRECIATE YOU EXPLAINING THAT AND ENDING THIS SEGMENT ON A LITTLE BIT OF A NOTE OF HOPE.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE'VE GOT FOR RIGHT NOW.

BUT WE'LL BE BACK IN JUST A LITTLE BIT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER SPECIFIC ISSUES.

>>Bouchonville: WE WERE REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROGRAM FOR DIABETES.

WHAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT?

BECAUSE KNOW AGAIN, PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS WEREN'T REALLY TREATING HEPATITIS C BEFORE.

BEFORE PROJECT ECHO IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS ARE SEEING PEOPLE WITH DIABETES EVERY DAY.

SO WE WONDERED WHAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT OF USING THIS ECHO MODEL, PROJECT ECHO, TO SUPPORT THE PRIMARY CARE WORKFORCE AROUND A CONDITION THEY'RE ALREADY SEEING EVERY DAY.

>>Lou: THAT DISCUSSION ON PROJECT ECHO'S NEW DIABETES CARE PROGRAM IS COMING UP IN ABOUT 40 MINUTES.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH ARTURO SANDOVAL, FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER OF SOUTHWEST CULTURE, ABOUT HIS ROLE IN ORGANIZING THE VERY FIRST EARTH DAY MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO.

SANDOVAL IS BACK IN THE STUDIO THIS WEEK TALKING ABOUT HOW TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS CONGRESS PASSED DURING THAT ERA.

ARTURO SANDOVAL.

>>Laura: THANKS FOR BEING BACK IN THE STUDIO WITH ME.

>>Sandoval: IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>>Laura: THANKS, ARTURO.

SO YOU WERE A PART OF THE MOVEMENT, THAT THAT, BIRTHED MANY OF OUR MOST IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO.

AS WE'RE STANDING AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, THIS MOMENT IN HISTORY.

WHAT DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE OF THOSE LAWS AS?

>>Sandoval: WELL?

I THINK WE'RE IN A REALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION NOW.

AND, THE SECOND TRUMP TERM IS GOING TO CONTINUE, I THINK, TO DISMANTLE A LOT OF AS WELL, ALL THE FEDERAL LAWS, I THINK, ARE GOING TO REALLY DISMANTLE ALL THE LAWS THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS, STARTING 50 YEARS AGO.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A COMPLETE SORT OF JUST DISMANTLING OF THAT ON A VERY SYSTEMATIC WAY.

AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LET, MAJOR POLLUTERS, OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, RUN AMOK.

AND I THINK IT'S, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE AT THE END OF THIS, NEXT TRUMP TERM.

SO IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR THE PLANET AND FOR, ALL THE LIVING THINGS ON THE PLANET, CERTAINLY IN THE SHORT TERM FUTURE.

AND DEFINITELY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THE FEDERAL PROTECTIONS THAT WE COUNTED ON, OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

I THINK THOSE ARE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY GONE OR DISMANTLED TO A LEVEL WHERE THEY'RE THEY'RE NOT ENFORCEABLE AND THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY WERE INTENDED TO DO.

SO I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC IN THE SHORT TERM.

>>Laura: YEAH.

SO YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER PRETTY LONG TIME.

>>Sandoval: RIGHT.

>>Laura: AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS HAVE APPRECIATED LOTS OF THINGS ABOUT YOU, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE REALLY APPRECIATED AS I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE A BIG VISION.

YOU SEE THE BIG PICTURE NATIONALLY, GLOBALLY.

BUT YOUR WORK IS VERY GROUNDED IN THE LOCAL AND IN THIS PLACE, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT NEW MEXICANS WHO CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND COMMUNITY, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO NEED TO DO IN THE COMING MONTHS, IN THE COMING YEARS?

>>Sandoval: YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S STILL A LOT WE CAN DO.

WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE'RE ALREADY DOING LOCALLY.

CERTAINLY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESULTS OF THE RECENT ELECTION, NEW MEXICO STILL DID VERY, VERY WELL.

FOR EXAMPLE, GABE VASQUEZ, INCREASED HIS VOTE TOTALS OVER THE FIRST TIME HE RAN TWO YEARS AGO.

HE WENT FROM LIKE, I THINK HE WON BY 12 OR 1300 VOTES.

AND THIS THIS TIME AROUND, HE SOLIDIFIED THAT POSITION, BY ABOUT 10,000 VOTES PLUS.

SO THAT'S A AND ALL OF OUR DELEGATION, ARE DEMOCRATS AND THEY'RE ALL SUPPORTERS OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO THAT'S A BIG, BIG PLUS FOR THE STATE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS A MIXED BAG ON ENVIRONMENT.

BUT I THINK, A LOT OF OUR LEGISLATORS, LEADERSHIP IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF SUPPORTING THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO WE'RE LUCKY IN NEW MEXICO AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE A VERY BLUE STATE WITH LEADERSHIP, ELECTED LEADERSHIP THAT DOES HAVE A COMMITMENT TO THE ENVIRONMENT OVERALL.

YOU KNOW, NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT OVERALL, THERE IS A STRONG COMMITMENT.

SO WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY HERE IN NEW MEXICO TO KEEP PROTECTING THIS PARTICULAR PLACE THAT WE LOVE SO MUCH.

WE'RE ALSO BLESSED IN NEW MEXICO THAT, THE INDIGENOUS TRIBES, THE PUEBLOS AND NAVAJOS AND THE JICARILLA AND THE MESCALERO HAVE A LAND BASES, AND I THINK THEY HAVE A DEEP CULTURAL VALUE FOR PROTECTING PLACE.

AND WE'RE BLESSED TO HAVE THEM, LIVING IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE THEY'RE KEEPING, I THINK THEY'RE DOING MORE THAN THEIR PART TO PROTECT, OUR WATER AND OUR LAND BASES.

AND THEY'RE NOT OVER DEVELOPING THEM.

AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY COGNIZANT OF NEEDING TO PROTECT THESE PLACES.

SO WE'RE BLESSED IN NEW MEXICO TO HAVE THEM HERE.

>>Laura: SO WHAT ABOUT WHAT CAN PEOPLE DO IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, NEIGHBORHOODS, CITIES?

HOW DO WE HOW DO WE COME TOGETHER AND STAND AGAINST THIS DISMANTLING?

>>Sandoval: WELL, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S ORGANIZED.

SOMEBODY ASKED ME, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO AS A RESULT OF THIS ELECTION?

I SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO AGONIZE.

I'M GOING TO ORGANIZE.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE RALLYING CALL THAT WE NEED TO KEEP DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING POSITIVELY TO BUILD COMMUNITY.

BUT WE NEED TO DO IT WITH MUCH MORE INTENTION.

WE HAVE TO REALLY REACH OUT, NOT TO OTHER, GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS AND NEIGHBORS, TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THE POSITIVE THINGS WE CAN DO.

YOU KNOW, IN OUR CENTER, WE DO ORGANIC BACKYARD GARDENS.

THIS YEAR, ALL THE WAY FROM JICARILLA APACHE NATION TO COLUMBUS.

BORDER TO BORDER.

WE'RE DOING ORGANIC BACKYARD GARDENING.

WE HAVE 3300 PEOPLE GROWING THEIR OWN VEGETABLES.

THAT'S NOT REVOLUTIONARY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING REALLY TANGIBLE THAT CAN GET PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT HOW THEY CAN OWN THEIR OWN LIVES IN OTHER AREAS AS WELL.

NOT JUST FOOD, BUT THEY CAN THEN SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY, THIS COMPANY IS POLLUTING THE AIR HERE.

I'M GOING TO TALK TO MY OTHER NEIGHBORS THAT ARE GROWING VEGETABLES, AND LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

SO, THERE'S GREAT POWER IN LOCAL ORGANIZING, AND WE HAVE TO REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS TO KEEP GETTING OURSELVES TOGETHER, KEEP TALKING TO EACH OTHER, AND DO POSITIVE THINGS FOR ONE ANOTHER.

AND THAT IS HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO.

THERE'S LOTS OF GREAT ORGANIZING GOING ON.

THERE'S WONDERFUL GROUPS WORKING IN DIFFERENT VENUES.

SO, I SEE.

I MEAN, I AM SADDENED AND I THINK WE'RE IN FOR A REALLY HARD TIME.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SUFFER GREATLY IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL POLICIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE COMING DOWN, IN THE SECOND, TRUMP TERM.

BUT THAT'S NO REASON FOR US TO WRING OUR HANDS AND GIVE UP.

THAT'S A REASON FOR US TO CONTINUE REACHING OUT TO ONE ANOTHER AND DOING THE WORK.

>>Laura: YEAH.

>>Sandoval: PEOPLE HAVE TO GET OFF THE SOFA.

>>Laura: YEAH, GET OFF OUR PHONES.

>>Sandoval: AND GET OFF THE PHONE.

THAT'S RIGHT.

>>Laura: YEAH, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST AND I JUST, I DON'T THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS ENOUGH, FOR PEOPLE WHO, WHO KIND OF ARE OUR ALLIES, OUR ACCOMPLICES, OUR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT COMMUNITY, ABOUT NEW MEXICO, ABOUT LAND AND WATER AND AIR.

HOW DO WE WORK BETTER TOGETHER WHILE RESPECTING ONE ANOTHER'S DIFFERENCES?

DIFFERENT HISTORIES, DIFFERENT CULTURES, DIFFERENT NEEDS?

HOW DO WE RESPECT ONE ANOTHER AND, AND NOT BE DIVIDED?

COME TOGETHER.

>>Sandoval: WELL, I THINK THAT IS HAPPENING.

THERE'S THE CIVIC ENGAGEMENT TABLE, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS BEEN AROUND NOW FOR, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE BEEN AT IT AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, MAYBE TEN.

BUT IT'S A, IT'S AN ORGANIZATION, A COLLABORATION OF ABOUT 40 OR 50 NONPROFIT ALL OVER THE STATE.

AND THEY DO MEET ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY BUILDING THOSE COALITIONS ALL, ALL AROUND THE STATE.

SO THEY'RE DOING VERY INTENTIONALLY.

THEY'RE DOING THAT KIND OF ORGANIZING.

I THINK A LOT OF US THAT ARE IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD AND WORKING ON THESE ISSUES OF AIR, WATER AND LAND PROTECTION, DO REACH OUT TO EACH OTHER.

AND WE SEE THE NEED AND THE VALUE IN COLLABORATION IN OUR CENTER.

WE'RE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE WHEN WE REACH OUT TO OTHER GROUPS.

SO, AND WE REACH OUT TO GROUPS THAT YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY THINK OF.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE WORK WITH INDIGENOUS AND MEXICANO COMMUNITIES, AND WE'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF FARMING SUPPORT AND ORGANIC FARMING AND THE BACKYARD GARDENING WORK.

BUT NOW WE'RE ALSO TEAMING UP WITH TREE NEW MEXICO.

WE'RE TEAMING UP WITH A FORESTRY DIVISION OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, AND WE'RE ADDING TO THE GARDENING.

WE'RE ADDING FRUIT TREES, AND WE'RE NOW GIVING AWAY ALL OVER THE STATE WILL BE GIVING AWAY TREES, FRUIT TREES, SHADE TREES.

AND IT'S A GREAT WAY TO WORK WITH ORGANIZATIONS THAT WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T NORMALLY THINK ABOUT, LIKE, TREE NEW MEXICO.

BECAUSE FRANKLY, THEY TEND TO BE THEY HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY, AN ALL WHITE ORGANIZATION.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WORK.

AND WE REACHED OUT TO EACH OTHER.

IT WAS A MUTUAL REACHING OUT.

AND THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN SPECTACULAR.

SO THAT'S WHAT YOU DO, YOU SAY, I'VE NEVER TALKED TO THEM BEFORE, BUT THEY'RE GIVING AWAY TREES.

WHY DON'T WE TALK TO THEM, SEE IF THEY CAN WORK WITH US TO GIVE AWAY TREES TO OUR INDIGENOUS AND MEXICANO COMMUNITIES?

AND THEY SAID, WELL, GREAT.

WE'D LIKE TO DO IT.

WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

AND WE LEARNED FROM THEM.

WE'RE LEARNING A LOT FROM THEM.

SO I THINK THAT IS GOING ON.

I SEE A LOT OF THAT WORK AMONG GROUPS.

AND LIKE I SAY, I THINK THE LEADERS IN THAT HAVE BEEN THE THAT CIVIC ENGAGEMENT TABLE.

THEY'RE DOING ASTOUNDING WORK ON THE POLICY LEVEL.

>>Laura: ANY ADVICE FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE FEELING A LITTLE, AGONIZING RIGHT NOW OR FEELING, A LITTLE BIT HOPELESS, OR LIKE THEY WANT TO LEAVE THE UNITED STATES OR.

>>Arturo: WELL, I THINK THE ANOTHER THING WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO IS A DEEP SENSE OF PLACE AND TIME AND THE PERSPECTIVE ON TIME.

SO, I KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT, PUEBLOANS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

SO FOR THEM, A FOUR YEAR TERM IS LIKE A BLIP.

IT'S LIKE NOTHING.

AND THEY AND THEY KNOW THEY'LL SURVIVE IT.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO LEARN FROM THEM AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO BE VERY GOOD, FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

AND WE DON'T KNOW WHEN WE HIT BOTTOM ON SORT OF THIS GLOBAL FASCIST MOVEMENT THAT IS GOING AROUND THE WORLD, BUT WE KNOW THAT FOUR YEARS OR EIGHT YEARS OR 20 YEARS IS A BLIP.

SO WE HAVE WORK TO DO.

WE HAVE VISIONS OF THE SOCIETY WE WANT TO SEE.

AND AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS, WE CAN STILL KEEP BUILDING TOWARDS THAT.

AND NEW MEXICO IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO DO IT BECAUSE OF OUR HISTORY, WHO IS ACTUALLY LIVING HERE.

SO OUR INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ERASED.

EVEN THOUGH THERE'S BEEN A CONSTANT PLAN AND THE PURPOSE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SINCE DAY ONE, THE US GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN TO, COMPLETELY ERASE THEM AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT.

SO IF THEY CAN SURVIVE, 400 YEARS OF SPANISH AND AMERICAN COLONIZATION, THEN THOSE OF US HERE CAN SURVIVE FOUR YEARS OF DONALD TRUMP'S COLONIZATION.

>>Laura: ARTURO.

THANK YOU.

>>Sandoval: YOU BET.

>>Jeff: THANKS AGAIN TO LAURA AND ARTURO FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

NOW LET'S RETURN TO EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR'S CONVERSATION WITH THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO'S MARÍA MARTÍNEZ SÁNCHEZ AND LENA WEBER-SALAZAR.

THIS TIME AROUND, THEY'LL GET IT TO SOME SPECIFIC ISSUES, STARTING WITH WHAT A SECOND TRUMP TERM MIGHT MEAN FOR POLICING THE COURTS AND OTHER PIECES IN THE PUBLIC SAFETY PUZZLE IN NEW MEXICO.

HERE'S JEFF.

>>Jeff: LENA AND MARÍA.

WELCOME BACK.

LENA, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

WE HEAR THE PHRASE PUBLIC SAFETY A LOT, BUT I FEAR THAT, LIKE SO MANY OTHER THINGS IN 2024, IT HAS BEGUN TO LOSE ITS MEANING A BIT.

IT MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

SO FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, ESPECIALLY FOR NEW MEXICANS, AS WE LOOK TOWARD A SECOND TRUMP TERM, WHAT DOES PUBLIC SAFETY MEAN AND WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

>>Salazar: YEAH, AND THEN I'LL ASK MARÍA TO WEIGH IN ON THIS AS WELL.

BUT SO I THINK WHEN WE AT THE ACLU WITH OUR CLOSE PARTNERS AND COMMUNITY ADVOCATES, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, WE'RE REALLY THINKING AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ALL OF US TO FEEL SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND TO BE ABLE TO THRIVE AND BE HEALTHY, WHICH I REALIZE IS VERY BROAD.

AND WE KNOW THAT IN NEW MEXICO WE DO, WE FACE SOME SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ALL OF US TO FEEL SAFE AND HEALTHY IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND THERE ARE VERY SERIOUS THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

BUT WE'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT MAKES OUR COMMUNITIES SAFE AND HEALTHY, WHAT MAKES ALL OF US SAFE AND HEALTHY.

AND WE KNOW THAT THAT'S ACCESS TO HEALTH, ACCESS TO HOUSING, ACCESS TO BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES, ACCESS TO SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT, ACCESS TO EDUCATION.

AND WE ALSO KNOW, AS I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SAID BEFORE WITH YOU AND IN OTHER PLACES THAT INCREASED POLICING, INCREASED INCARCERATION DOES NOT MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER.

SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, WE'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT IT IN THAT LENS AND LOOKING AT A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND WHAT IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE, I THINK THERE'S LOTS OF THREATS TO OUR SAFETY AND TO WHAT OUR COMMUNITIES NEED TO THRIVE.

AND I LOVE MARÍA TO WEIGH IN ON IT AS WELL.

AND WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IN LOOKING AT.

>>Sánchez: YEAH, I MEAN, JUST ECHOING WHAT LENA SAYS, YOU KNOW, PUTTING AN UNHOUSED PERSON IN JAIL SIMPLY FOR BEING IN A PUBLIC SPACE, LIKE, WHERE DOES THAT GET US?

YOU KNOW, WE'RE PAYING FOR THAT PERSON TO BE IN JAIL WHERE WE COULD BE USING THOSE MONEYS TO ACTUALLY HELP THAT PERSON GET OUT OF POVERTY.

SO I THINK THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LIKE, THAT'S NOT PUBLIC SAFETY.

I DON'T I DON'T THINK ANYONE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE COULD SAY THAT THAT IS A TRUE WAY OF ADDRESSING OR MAINTAINING INCREASING PUBLIC SAFETY.

SO I THINK JUST ECHOING WHAT SHE SAID, BUT THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE IN MY MIND.

>>Jeff: IT DOES SEEM TO ME I WANT TO STAY ON THIS FOR JUST A MINUTE.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, LIKE I SAID, THAT PHRASE HAS SORT OF SHIFTED MEANINGS AND IT MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

I THINK TRADITIONALLY FOR THE LONGEST TIME, PUBLIC SAFETY MEANT COPS, PRISONS, JAILS, THAT KIND OF THING.

IT FEELS TO ME AT LEAST LIKE THERE HAS BEEN SOME PROGRESS AND EXPANDING WHAT THAT MEANS TO PEOPLE, EXPANDING INTO THINGS LIKE COMMUNITY SAFETY.

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS IN TERMS OF LIKE SOME OF THAT PROGRESS FREEZING >>Sánchez: WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

I MEAN, AGAIN, LIKE AT LEAST FOR THE ACLU AND THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IN PARTICULAR, IT'S GOING TO IT'S SO MUCH MORE REACTIVE WORK NOW.

SO LIKE WHEREAS BEFORE, LIKE WE COULD REALLY PUT RESOURCES INTO TRUE PUBLIC OR COMMUNITY SAFETY AND WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY PUTTING FUNDING TOWARDS THE PROGRAMS THAT LENA WAS TALKING ABOUT.

NOW, YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO BE VERY MUCH IN A REACTIVE MODE IN JUST FIGHTING OFF ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT ARE THAT ARE COMING OUR WAY.

SO THAT THAT'S WHAT CONCERNS ME.

BUT IN TERMS AGAIN, OF LIKE IF WE ARE TRULY TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITY SAFETY, LIKE WE KNOW WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES ISN'T WORKING LIKE IT'S THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.

WE'VE BEEN DOING IT, IT'S NOT WORKING.

SO WHY THE HARD PART OR IT'S NOT EVEN HARD?

THE ANSWERS ARE THERE, THEY'RE SIMPLE.

THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE CAUSE SOME POLITICAL WILL, SOME COURAGE.

IT WILL TAKE POLITICAL COURAGE, IT WILL TAKE MONEY, AND IT WILL TAKE A COMMUNITY SUPPORTING THOSE SOLUTIONS, ALL OF THE ONES THAT LENA JUST MENTIONED.

BUT THAT IS TRULY HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET TO A PLACE WE WANT TO BE PUTTING PEOPLE IN JAIL, FIGHTING THEM, GETTING THEM IN THIS REVOLVING DOOR OF THE CRIMINAL.

THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM IS JUST NOT IT'S NOT THE ANSWER.

AND I THINK I WOULD HOPE MOST PEOPLE CAN AGREE ON THAT, AT LEAST.

YEAH.

>>Salazar: AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT AS WELL, WE KNOW WITH EVERYTHING COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND WITH, YOU KNOW, BEING IN A POSITION WHERE WE ALONG WITH PARTNERS, WE'RE GOING TO BE DRAWN INTO SO MUCH REACTIVE WORK.

AND WE ALSO KNOW THERE'S SO MANY AMAZING GROUPS IN NEW MEXICO WHO ARE DOING REALLY MEANINGFUL COMMUNITY SAFETY WORK AND SUPPORTING COMMUNITIES AND PUSHING FOR THOSE REAL SOLUTIONS.

AND WE ALSO WE CAN'T AND I SAY WE AS IN NEW MEXICO, NEW MEXICANS, YOU KNOW, OUR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE BOARD.

WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS EVERYTHING THAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE.

WE ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T TURN OUR BACKS ON OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN FACING REALLY, REALLY SEVERE ISSUES AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WITH THE LEVELS OF POLICE VIOLENCE, WITH LACK OF ACCESS TO SERVICES, WE JUST KNOW THAT THAT THESE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE REALLY SERIOUS ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND SO WE ALL NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE PAYING ATTENTION.

>>Jeff: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION FOR JUST A SECOND, AND I WANT TO DO THAT THROUGH THE LENS OF PRIVATE PRISONS.

NEW MEXICO HAS THE LARGEST PRIVATE PRISON FOOTPRINT IN THE COUNTRY.

A LOT OF THOSE FACILITIES ARE IN THE MIGRANT DETENTION GAME.

WE'VE OBVIOUSLY MADE SOME PROGRESS IN NEW MEXICO AND STARTING TO GET OUT OF BED THERE.

BUT WITH A STATED GOAL OF MASS DEPORTATIONS BEGINNING ON DAY ONE OF A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

LENA WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS WHERE THAT IS CONCERNED?

>>Salazar: YEAH, I JUST I JUST REALLY THINK AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN NEW MEXICO.

I REALLY DO NOT THINK IT IS IN LINE WITH OUR NEW MEXICAN VALUES TO BE POURING MONEY AND SUPPORTING STRUCTURES TO CONTINUE TO INCARCERATE AND LOCK UP OUR NEIGHBORS AND DIVIDE OUR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES, AND THE ROLE OF PRIVATE PRISONS IN MASS DEPORTATIONS AND IN DETENTION.

AND WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE, I THINK IS VERY SCARY.

I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S REALLY HEAVY WHEN WE WHEN WE HEAR ON THE NEWS, YOU KNOW, FOLKS INVOLVED IN THE PRIVATE PRISON INDUSTRY TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING OFF OF THIS, THAT'S REALLY, REALLY SCARY AND HARMFUL.

AND I, I ALSO JUST, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY BELIEVE THAT NEW MEXICANS DESERVE LOCAL ECONOMIES AND JOBS THAT DO NOT DEPEND ON LOCKING UP AND DEHUMANIZING OUR NEIGHBORS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND FOLKS WHO ARE JUST HERE TRYING TO MAKE A BETTER LIFE FOR THEMSELVES.

SO I THINK IT'S SCARY.

DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO BE PAYING VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO.

AND WE JUST WE DESERVE BETTER.

>>Jeff: I READ THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO'S NEWS RELEASE RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION AND A NUMBER OF SORT OF AREAS OF CONCERN WERE LINED OUT, AND LENA TOUCHED ON THIS IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALL SEEM TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT, I'M CERTAINLY CONCERNED ABOUT IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREE EXPRESSION AND FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC CONCERNS BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE HEARD IN TERMS OF THE RHETORIC DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND PROJECT 2025 OR OTHERWISE?

WHAT SHOULD WE BE LOOKING FOR?

>>Sánchez: YEAH, SO I THINK THIS IS A PLACE WHERE WE CAN SAY LIKE, LET'S BELIEVE TRUMP, LET'S TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD, RIGHT?

LET'S JUST LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID AND NOT LIKE >>Jeff: DON'T TAKE HIM TOO SERIOUSLY.

>>Sánchez: YEAH, YEAH.

LIKE, I'M DONE WITH THAT.

LET'S JUST LET'S SEE WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THESE THINGS.

HE SAID, LET'S USE THE MILITARY AGAINST PROTESTERS, YOU KNOW?

SO THAT'S THE MAJOR CONCERN ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WE SAW MASS DEMONSTRATIONS HERE IN NEW MEXICO AFTER TRUMP WAS ELECTED DURING THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS.

YOU KNOW, SO THAT THAT'S A MAJOR CONCERN.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BOOK BANNING.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WAS EVEN SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT AT THE CITY COUNCIL LAST NIGHT.

I'M SORRY, NOT THE CITY COUNCIL, THE APS, THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

AND SO THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF THINGS, THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING STRAIGHT OUT OF OUT OF, YOU KNOW, TRUMP'S MOUTH AND OTHERS ON THE RIGHT AROUND LIMITING YOUNG PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO READ THINGS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S REALLY SCARY STUFF.

THAT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, JUST YOUR NORMAL KIND OF CONVENTIONAL CONSERVATIVE I DON'T KNOW POLICY AGENDA, THIS THIS IS ANOTHER LEVEL.

SO THOSE ARE SOME OF OUR MAJOR CONCERNS.

YEAH.

>>Jeff: I WILL THROW A QUICK NOTE IN FOR MY PROFESSION.

OBVIOUSLY WE ARE VERY CONCERNED BECAUSE WITHOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT WE DON'T GET TO DO OUR JOBS.

SO I SAVED A BUNCH OF TIME AT THE END OF THIS SEGMENT FOR A PART OF THE CONVERSATION I REALLY WANT TO HAVE.

WE'RE DOING A BUNCH OF INTERVIEWS HERE AT THE END OF THE YEAR ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE COMING, AND WE'RE ASKING EVERYONE SOME VERSION OF THIS QUESTION WHAT CAN PEOPLE DO IN A STATE LIKE OURS THAT, AGAIN, DID NOT VOTE EN MASSE FOR TRUMP'S AGENDA TO STAND UP TO IT OUTSIDE OF THE TRADITIONAL GOVERNMENT CONTEXTS?

HOW DO WE CARRY ON AS A COMMUNITY HERE AND SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER AND LIVING DIFFERENTLY FROM WHAT HE SAYS HE WANTS TO DO?

I’LL LET YOU GO FIRST, LENA.

>>Salazar: YEAH.

ONE THING WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS THAT NEW MEXICAN COMMUNITIES ARE NO STRANGERS TO ADVERSITY.

AND RECOGNIZING THAT WE ARE IN A LAND WHERE IN A COUNTRY WHERE, YOU KNOW, GENOCIDE HAS TAKEN PLACE, WHERE ESPECIALLY THE THREATS THAT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES HAVE FACED THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, WHILE THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS THREATS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, ARE NOT UNPRECEDENTED.

AND SO I THINK WE CAN REALLY ROOT OURSELVES IN HISTORY.

WE CAN REALLY LOOK TO LEADERS IN THE INDIGENOUS JUSTICE SPACE AND THE QUEER JUSTICE SPACE, REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE, SPACE.

THERE'S A REASON WHY NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN AHEAD OF THE CURVE ON SOME OF AND SOME OF THESE PROTECTIONS AND IN SECURING AND STRENGTHENING AND BROADENING SOME CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES IN THE STATE.

AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THE LEADERSHIP ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND THIS IS REALLY A MOMENT, AS WE SPOKE TO EARLIER, WHERE I TRULY THINK THERE'S A ROLE FOR EVERYONE.

WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

WE'RE ALL PART OF THIS FABRIC OF HISTORY.

AND WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO INCREASED LEVELS OF SAFETY RIGHT NOW OR YOU WILL BE AFFORDED INCREASED SAFETY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN.

MAYBE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO FINANCIAL RESOURCES, MAYBE YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN MUTUAL AID, MAYBE YOU CAN OPEN YOUR HOME IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO COMMUNITY RESOURCES OR COMMUNITY SPACES THAT YOU CAN BE OPENING UP AND SHARING.

AND I JUST I REALLY THINK THAT WE HAVE SO MUCH POWER IN THIS STATE, SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING HAND IN HAND AND WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR YOU, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR YOUR COMMUNITY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHETHER IT'S IN THE POLICY AND LEGAL SPACES.

WE'RE TRYING TO THROW SAND IN THE WHEELS, WHETHER IT'S PARTICIPATING AND IN MUTUAL AID OR ONE OF THESE OTHER STRUCTURES.

I REALLY THINK THERE'S A ROLE FOR EVERYBODY AND WE JUST ALL NEED EACH OTHER.

>>Jeff: THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE IS BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE AND WHAT THEY WANT AND HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE.

ISN'T THAT RIGHT, MARÍA?

>>Sánchez: 100%, YEAH.

AND SO I THINK LENA SAID IT PERFECTLY.

BUT I'LL JUST ADD, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS, I'VE GOTTEN SO MANY PHONE CALLS AND TEXTS AND PEOPLE JUST WANTING SOME LEVEL OF ASSURANCE THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO BE OKAY OR WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO, HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS?

AND HONESTLY, MY ANSWER IS LIKE, FIRST I DON'T KNOW, LIKE IT'S YET TO BE SEEN HOW DESTRUCTIVE IT'S GOING TO BE.

ALL I KNOW IS JUST REITERATING WHAT LENA SAID.

IT'S LIKE THE ONLY, YOU KNOW, ONE ORGANIZATION, AGAIN, IS NOT GOING TO STOP ANY OF THIS.

LIKE AND ALL OF THE ORGANIZATIONS TOGETHER ARE NOT GOING TO STOP ANY OF THE ALL OF THIS.

ALL OF US AS A STATE, AS COMMUNITIES LIKE WE ARE, WE WILL HAVE SO MUCH BETTER OF A CHANCE AT GUMMING UP THE WORKS IF WE AS INDIVIDUALS JUST BAND TOGETHER AND PROTECT EACH OTHER, LOVE EACH OTHER, AND DO WHAT WE CAN IN UNCONVENTIONAL WAYS.

LIKE THIS IS NOT CONVENTIONAL TIMES.

THESE ARE NOT CONVENTIONAL TIMES.

SO WE NEED UNCONVENTIONAL WAYS OF ADDRESSING THIS.

OF COURSE, WE WILL USE THE COURTS AND OF COURSE WE WILL GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND, YOU KNOW, DO ALL WE CAN IN THOSE IN THOSE SPACES.

BUT PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO ALSO HAVE A ROLE AND A RESPONSIBILITY, I THINK, IN THIS AS WELL, TO WORK WITH US, TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER, AND TO JUST PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE MOST THREATENED AND IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

>>Jeff: MARÍA, LENA, THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING.

I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK IN A FEW MORE MONTHS AND CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION.

>>Sánchez: ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS >>Salazar: THANK YOU.

>>Lou: ALTHOUGH TREATMENT FOR TYPE ONE AND TYPE TWO DIABETES HAS PROGRESSED IN RECENT YEARS, ACCESS TO THOSE MEDICAL ADVANCEMENTS IS OFTEN OUT OF REACH FOR RURAL PATIENTS.

UNM’S PROJECT ECHO IS WORKING TO CHANGE THAT.

A STUDY PUBLISHED IN SEPTEMBER SHOWED THE PROJECT ECHO'S ONLINE MENTORING MODEL EFFECTIVELY TEACHES RURAL HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS HOW TO PROVIDE BETTER CARE FOR THEIR PATIENTS.

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH DOCTORS MATTHEW BOUCHONVILLE AND TAMARA SINGLETON TO DISCUSS HOW THE NEW ADDITIONS TO PROJECT ECHO IS ALREADY CHANGING THE LIVES OF RURAL NEW MEXICANS.

>>Jeff: DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE.

DOCTOR SINGLETON.

WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>>Bouchonville: THANK YOU.

>>Singleton: THANK YOU.

>>Jeff: I'LL START WITH YOU, DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE.

I THINK A LOT OF VIEWERS WILL BE FAMILIAR BY NOW WITH PROJECT ECHO.

BUT FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T, WHAT EXACTLY IS IT?

AND WHAT WERE YOU ALL FOCUSED ON IN THE EARLY YEARS?

>>Bouchonville: THANK YOU.

JEFF.

FOR THOSE THAT AREN'T FAMILIAR IN A NUTSHELL.

PROJECT ECHO IS AN INTERVENTION THAT HELPS PRIMARY CARE PROVIDERS DELIVER HIGHER COMPLEXITY CARE TO THEIR PATIENTS SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO REFER THEIR PATIENTS TO SEE A SPECIALIST.

AND THE RATIONALE FOR THIS IS THAT THERE SIMPLY AREN'T ENOUGH SPECIALISTS, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL COMMUNITIES LIKE NEW MEXICO.

>>Jeff: GOTCHA.

WHAT WAS SOME OF THAT EARLY WORK FOCUSED ON?

I KNOW YOU ALL KIND OF MADE A NAME FOR YOURSELVES EARLY ON.

IN HEPATITIS C INTERVENTIONS.

>>Bouchonville: WE DID, WE DID.

THANK YOU.

JEFF.

SO ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, OUR DIRECTOR AND FOUNDER, DOCTOR SANJEEV ARORA, WHO IS A LIVER SPECIALIST.

HE DEVELOPED THE MODEL OF THIS INTERVENTION TO SUPPORT THE PRIMARY CARE WORKFORCE AROUND DELIVERING HEPATITIS C TREATMENT.

BECAUSE AT THE TIME, HEPATITIS C TREATMENT WAS VERY COMPLEX.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE, LIKE GIVING CHEMOTHERAPY.

TO THE POINT THAT REALLY NO PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS WERE WERE DELIVERING THAT KIND OF CARE.

ONLY ONLY LIVER SPECIALISTS WERE DELIVERING THAT CARE.

BUT JUST LIKE MANY OTHER SPECIALTIES THERE, THERE WERE NOT ENOUGH LIVER SPECIALISTS.

AND PEOPLE WERE HAVING TO WAIT MANY MONTHS AND HAVING TO TRAVEL MANY MILES, MANY HOURS TO SEE A LIVER SPECIALIST.

AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF TIME.

HEPATITIS C IS A POTENTIALLY LIFE THREATENING CONDITION.

SO.

SO DOCTOR ARORA STARTED THIS INTERVENTION, AND IT'S, BASICALLY A TYPE OF TELEHEALTH.

BUT INSTEAD OF PATIENTS BEING ON THE OTHER END CONNECTING WITH THE SPECIALIST, YOU HAVE THESE VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES OF PRACTICE WHERE A NETWORK OF RURAL PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS ARE JOINING SPECIALISTS VIRTUALLY EVERY WEEK, AND THEY'RE PRESENTING THEIR PATIENTS OVER THE NETWORK THAT ALL THE IDENTITY IS PROTECTED.

AND THE IDEA IS THAT OVER TIME, EVERYONE ON THE NETWORK BECOMES MORE EXPERT.

AND SO HE HE SHARED HIS EXPERIENCE.

HE HE PUBLISHED IT IN THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, SHOWING THAT RURAL PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO WITH HEPATITIS C, THAT THEY DID JUST AS WELL AS THOSE PATIENTS THAT WERE SEEN IN HIS OWN CLINIC AT THE REFERRAL CENTER AT UNM.

>>Jeff: DOCTOR SINGLETON, YOU WERE A BENEFICIARY OF SOME OF THOSE PROJECT ECHO PROTOCOLS.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT, YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH USING THE MODEL >>Singleton: WHILE YOU'RE IN IN RURAL NEW MEXICO, IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET THAT PATIENT INTO A SPECIALIST, AND EVEN JUST TRYING TO GET TO ESPANOLA CAN BE A CHALLENGE.

YOU KNOW, IT IS MAYBE, YOU KNOW, 30, 40 MINUTES AWAY AND YOU NEED THE GAS MONEY.

YOU NEED, BUY LUNCH FOR WHOEVER DROVE YOU THERE.

AND IT'S DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW.

SO IT'S BEEN A HUGE BONUS TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK WITH SPECIALISTS AND GET THE PEOPLE, THE CARE THAT THEY NEED.

ALSO, IT IT'S JUST, IT'S A GOOD THING FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO JUST KEEP LEARNING MORE THINGS AND AND, FINDING OUT MORE THINGS.

DIABETES.

THERE'S A WHOLE UNIVERSE OF OF IMPROVED CARE THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR PATIENTS.

AND, AND SO IT'S REALLY HELPFUL TO HAVE THIS INPUT TO GIVE BETTER CARE FOR MY PATIENTS.

>>Jeff: THANK YOU FOR THE TRANSITION.

DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE, AS I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SOME PARALLELS BETWEEN TREATING HEP C AND DIABETES IN TERMS OF ADVANCEMENTS IN MEDICATIONS AND GUIDELINES.

DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?

>>Bouchonville: YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND AND SO WE WERE REALLY CURIOUS.

SO I JUST SHARED WITH YOU THE RESULTS OF THE HEPATITIS C EXPERIENCE IN NEW MEXICO.

AND WE WERE REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROGRAM FOR DIABETES, WHAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT?

BECAUSE NO, AGAIN, PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS WEREN'T REALLY TREATING HEPATITIS C BEFORE BEFORE PROJECT ECHO IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS ARE SEEING PEOPLE WITH DIABETES EVERY DAY.

SO WE WONDERED WHAT WOULD BE THE IMPACT OF USING THIS ECHO MODEL PROJECT ECHO, TO SUPPORT THE PRIMARY CARE WORKFORCE AROUND A CONDITION THEY'RE ALREADY SEEING EVERY DAY.

AND THE RATIONALE FOR THAT IS, JUST AS IS DOCTOR SINGLETON MENTIONED, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VERY RAPID ADVANCEMENTS IN DIABETES CARE, WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DRUGS, DIABETES TECHNOLOGIES, WHICH IS VERY GOOD ON ONE HAND.

BUT THE DOWNSIDE TO THAT IS THE GUIDELINES AROUND TREATMENT OF DIABETES AS A RESULT HAVE GOTTEN VERY, VERY COMPLEX.

SO WE'RE WE'RE KIND OF, AS YOU ALLUDED TO, JEFF, WHERE WE'RE SEEING DIABETES BE COMING DOWN AS COMPLEX AS HEPATITIS C TREATMENT WAS 20 YEARS AGO.

AND, THE FACT IS, IF YOU LOOK AT QUALITY METRICS AROUND DIABETES CARE IN THE UNITED STATES, I'M ONE OF THE MOST COMMON ONES IS THE HEMOGLOBIN A1C BLOOD TEST, WHICH IS A BLOOD TEST THAT PEOPLE WITH DIABETES GET EVERY FEW MONTHS.

AND IT GIVES US A SENSE OF WHAT THEIR AVERAGE GLUCOSE IS.

SO THE LOWER THE A1C, THE LOWER THEIR, THEIR BLOOD SUGARS ON AVERAGE.

AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE US IS THAT EVEN THOUGH DIABETES CARE HAS REALLY ADVANCED IN RECENT YEARS, WE'RE NOT MOVING THE DIAL AT ALL ON A1C.

AND PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT MANY PRIMARY CARE PROVIDERS DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE NAVIGATING THESE COMPLEX GUIDELINES.

AND SO WE SET OUT TO APPLY THE PROJECT ECHO INTERVENTION TO DIABETES CARE IN RURAL NEW MEXICO.

>>Jeff: GOTCHA.

AND I WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THE CRAZY PROMISING RESULTS THAT YOU'VE SEEN, IN A MOMENT.

BUT, DOCTOR SINGLETON, I'D LIKE TO RETURN TO YOU FOR A MOMENT.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE UNIQUE CHALLENGES THAT FOLKS IN YOUR PART OF THE STATE EXPERIENCE WHEN IT COMES TO DIABETES TREATMENT?

AND HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM SOMEONE WHO'S LIVING IN AN URBAN SETTING?

>>Singleton: SO THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

COMMUNICATION IS A BIG ISSUE.

I'VE WORKED WITH SOME PATIENTS EVEN JUST TO CALL IN IF THEY NEED A REFILL, IF THEY CHANGED PHARMACIES.

SO PEOPLE WILL GO, OH, I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT IN THREE WEEKS.

I JUST WON'T USE MY INSULIN UNTIL THEN.

AND SO DOES TRAINING.

EVEN ON THESE BASIC THINGS, CAN BE A CHALLENGE.

AND SO WE'LL CALL AND CHECK ON THEM AND TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GET EVERYTHING THEY NEED AND GIVE YEARS OF REFILLS AND, AND THE TRANSPORTATION IS A BIG ISSUE TRYING TO GET SOMEWHERE TO ACTUALLY SEE A SPECIALIST.

WE DO SOME VIRTUAL MEDICINE, AND SOME OF THE ENDOCRINOLOGISTS DO TOO, BUT IT STILL CAN TAKE SIX MONTHS, NINE MONTHS BEFORE YOU EVEN GET IN.

I HAD A PATIENT WHO WAS OFFERED A VISIT FOR, NEXT AUGUST, AT ONE OF THE, SPECIALTY CLINICS.

AND SO THOSE THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THE BIGGER THINGS.

ANOTHER THING THAT ISN'T SPECIFIC TO, RURAL NEW MEXICO, QUITE OFTEN, INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T WANT TO, OKAY, THE USE OF SOME OF THESE MEDICINES FOR IF A FAMILY DOCTOR LIKE ME IS PRESCRIBING.

BUT IF WE SAY, OH, THIS WAS RECOMMENDED BY THE ENDOCRINOLOGIST OR WE'RE MORE LIKELY TO GET COOPERATION THEN SO WE CAN HELP OUR PATIENTS BETTER THAT WAY TOO.

>>Jeff: THE CLOUT OF THE SPECIALIST.

>>Singleton: THAT’S RIGHT.

>>Jeff: DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE, LET'S GET TO THAT STUDY THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER.

IT WAS PUBLISHED EARLIER THIS YEAR.

IT FOUND THAT ON AVERAGE, THE NEARLY 900 PATIENTS OF THE ECHO TRAIN PROVIDERS REDUCE THEIR A1C LEVELS BY 1.2%.

NOW, THAT NOT SOUND LIKE MUCH TO FOLKS WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH DIABETES, BUT HOW DOES A DECREASE OF 1.2% MAKE AN IMPACT ON A PATIENT'S LIFE?

>>Bouchonville: GREAT QUESTION JEFF.

THANK YOU.

AND WE WERE WE WERE VERY EXCITED TO FIND THAT THAT A1C IMPROVED SO ROBUSTLY IN THESE RURAL PEOPLE WITH DIABETES THAT WERE BEING TREATED BY ECHO TRAINED PROVIDERS LIKE DOCTOR SINGLETON.

AND JUST JUST FOR SOME CONTEXT, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A1C, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A SCALE THAT GOES FROM 0 TO 100, WE'RE TALKING MORE LIKE 0 TO 10 AND MORE OR LESS.

SO AN A1C THAT WOULD BE A GOAL WOULD BE IN A1C OF 7%.

AND SO A, AN A1C LOWERING OF OVER 1% IS REMARKABLE.

AND ACTUALLY THERE'S STRONG EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT FOR EVERY 1% THAT YOU LOWER THE A1C THAT YOU PREVENT THE COMPLICATIONS OF DIABETES, YOU CUT THE RISK BY 40%.

SO EVERY 1% A1C LOWERING IS VERY, VERY IMPACTFUL.

>>Jeff: GOTCHA.

HOW EXCITED AND HOW RICH WOULD A PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY BE IF IT COULD DEVELOP A SINGLE DRUG THAT, ON AVERAGE, LOWERED A1C BY 1.2%?

>>Bouchonville: OKAY.

GREAT QUESTION.

THEY THEY'RE VERY EXCITED.

AND WE HAVE SOME THERAPEUTICS THAT DO THAT.

THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT DOLLARS THAT GO INTO TO CREATING THESE THESE MEDICATIONS.

AND ONE OF THE THAT'S REALLY THE BEAUTY OF THE ECHO MODEL IS IT'S VERY LOW COST.

YOU'RE YOU'RE MOVING KNOWLEDGE RATHER THAN MOVING PATIENTS.

RIGHT.

AND SO IT'S IT'S NOT A COSTLY INTERVENTION, BUT IT, SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVES DIABETES OUTCOMES.

>>Jeff: DOCTOR SINGLETON, TELL ME A LITTLE MORE ABOUT YOUR PRACTICE, PLEASE.

WHO IS A TYPICAL DIABETES PATIENT YOU SEE?

>>Singleton: THEY'RE OFTEN FROM THESE, WONDERFUL NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FAMILIES, WHO HAVE A WONDERFULLY DELICIOUS DIET, WITH TORTILLAS AND, AND PINTO BEANS AND, AND ESPECIALLY AROUND THE CHRISTMAS TIME, THE BISCOCHITOS.

AND ALL OF THE PASTELITOS AND WONDERFUL THINGS, THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY AS GOOD TO HAVE, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE SUFFERING FROM DIABETES.

AND SO, DIET EDUCATION IS A IS A BIG THING.

YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GIVE UP THE WHOLE SOUL OF YOUR CULTURE FOR HEALTH, BUT YOU CAN YOU CAN WORK AROUND THINGS AND DO WORK WITH PORTION CONTROL AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, IT'S I CERTAINLY ENJOYED THE BENEFITS OF BEING WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO DELIVER FRESH VEGETABLES FROM THEIR GARDEN TO MY CLINIC.

AND, AND I JUST ADORE WORKING WITH THEM.

>>Jeff: THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING ABOUT YOUR PATIENTS AND ALSO MAKING ME HUNGRY AS WE SIT AND CHAT.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIMARY CARE DOCS AND SPECIALISTS IN THE AREA OF DIABETES TREATMENT.

THE STUDY FOUND ABOUT 90% OF THOSE LIVING WITH DIABETES ARE CARED FOR BY THEIR PRIMARY CARE DOC, PARTLY DUE TO A DECLINE IN DIABETES SPECIALISTS NATIONWIDE.

SINCE 2000, THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE IN DIAGNOSED WITH TYPE TWO DIABETES, WITH AN INCREASED NEED FOR SPECIALISTS.

WHY ARE THERE NOW FEWER MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS IN THAT FIELD?

>>Bouchonville: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, JEFF.

THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN NEW MEXICO.

AND AS YOU'VE ALLUDED TO, IT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM ALL OVER THE ALL OVER THE U.S THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SPECIALISTS.

THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE GOING INTO ENDOCRINOLOGY, DIABETES, THE DIABETES SPECIALTY, COMPARED TO THE RAPID INCREASE IN THE RATES OF DIABETES, WHICH HAPPENS TO AFFECT NEW MEXICANS, MORE THAN THAN OTHER REGIONS OF THE UNITED STATES.

SO VERY, VERY HIGH PREVALENCE OF DIABETES IN NEW MEXICO.

ANOTHER ANOTHER CHALLENGE IN NEW MEXICO IS WE'RE SUCH A WE'RE A VERY RURAL STATE.

NEW MEXICO IS THE FIFTH LARGEST STATE IN THE US AND VERY RURAL.

AND AS DIABETES THERAPEUTICS HAVE REALLY ADVANCED IN RECENT YEARS, WE'RE SEEING A VERY WORRISOME TREND ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE RURAL PEOPLE WITH DIABETES ARE ACTUALLY HAVING MORE NEGATIVE OUTCOMES THAN THEIR URBAN PEERS.

SO THIS IS WHY AN INTERVENTION LIKE PROJECT ECHO IS SO IMPORTANT IN RURAL COMMUNITIES LIKE NEW MEXICO.

>>Jeff: DOCTOR SINGLETON, DO YOU KNOW OTHER PROVIDERS IN YOUR PART OF THE STATE WHO ARE USING THE ECHO MODEL?

HOW HAS IT CHANGED THE LANDSCAPE OF TREATMENT FOR HEP C, DIABETES AND OTHER PROBLEMS?

>>Singleton: SO I'VE SEEN PEOPLE WHO WORK IN MY AREA AND THE HEPATITIS C ECHOES, AND ALSO ON SOME OF THE ADDICTION, SOME OF THE ADDICTION ECHOES.

AND THOSE ARE THE MAIN THING.

THERE IS A LARGE PROBLEM WITH ADDICTION IN THIS AREA, WHICH ALSO GETS IN THE WAY OF, OF TREATING DIABETES.

AND HEPATITIS C REALLY RAISES SUGAR LEVELS A LOT.

IT'S VERY HARD TO CONTROL DIABETES, SOMEONE WHO HAS HEPATITIS C, AND ONCE IT'S TREATED, YOU SEE A JUST A WONDERFUL IMPROVEMENT.

AND SO THAT'S ALSO ONE OF THE ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF, OF PROJECT ECHO.

BUT THERE'S A, THERE'S A FEW.

NOT THAT MANY.

I WISH MORE WOULD JOIN.

>>Jeff: MAYBE FOLKS WHO SEE THIS MIGHT CONSIDER IT.

DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE, THIS SUMMER, A LEGISLATIVE FINANCE COMMITTEE REPORT FOUND THAT HEALTH CARE WORKERS WERE THE TOP OCCUPATIONAL NEED FOR OUR STATE.

JUST SEVEN OF THE STATE'S 33 COUNTIES WERE AT OR ABOVE THE BENCHMARK OF 8.5 PRIMARY CARE PRACTITIONERS PER 100,000 PEOPLE.

HOW IS PROJECT ECHO MAKING SURE THAT THIS MODEL ISN'T ASKING TOO MUCH FROM AN ALREADY OVERWORKED WORKFORCE?

>>Bouchonville: THAT'S A VERY SERIOUS CHALLENGE THAT YOU BRING UP.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH, SPECIALISTS.

BUT ALSO, AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS.

SO ONE ONE THING THAT WE'VE SEEN WITH WITH OUR ECHO AND WITH MANY OTHER ECHO PROGRAMS AND OTHER, DISEASE STATES BESIDES DIABETES, IS THAT PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS TUNING IN TO A WEEKLY VIRTUAL SESSION WITH THEIR PEERS AND WITH SPECIALISTS ON THE NETWORK, THEY FEEL LESS ISOLATED.

IT ACTUALLY IMPROVES JOY OF WORK AND HAS BEEN SHOWN TO BE A RETENTION TOOL.

PEOPLE ARE, THERE'S EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE STICKING IN THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY ENJOYING WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

I CAN TELL YOU AS AN ENDOCRINOLOGIST THAT THESE VIRTUAL SESSIONS EVERY WEEK ARE THE ARE THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY WEEK THERE.

IT'S NOT JUST SPECIALISTS TALKING TO TO PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS.

IT'S TRULY AN ALL TEACH, ALL LEARN TYPE OF MODEL.

I'M LEARNING FROM FROM DIETITIANS.

DOCTOR SINGLETON WAS JUST MENTIONING LIKE HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU MAKE DIETARY RECOMMENDATIONS BUT PRESERVE THE LOCAL CULTURES THAT ARE SO IMPORTANT FOR FOR PEOPLE WITH DIABETES?

SO WE LEARN.

WE LEARN FROM DIETITIANS.

WE LEARN FROM SOCIAL WORKERS, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH EXPERTS, PEOPLE RIGHT ON THE FRONT LINES LIKE DOCTOR SINGLETON.

WE LEARN HOW HOW DO WE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT GUIDELINES IN RESOURCE CONSTRAINED ENVIRONMENTS.

SO, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, PROJECT ECHO IS A TOOL TO ALSO IMPROVE JOY OF WORK AND HOPEFULLY HANG ON TO MANY OF THESE PRIMARY CARE CLINICIANS THAT ARE IN SO MUCH NEED.

>>Jeff: JOY OF WORK.

MAYBE YOU COULD DO A PROJECT ECHO FOR THE JOURNALISM INDUSTRY.

DOCTOR BOUCHONVILLE, DOCTOR SINGLETON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING A LITTLE TIME WITH US.

>>Singleton: THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>>Bouchonville: MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>Lou: THANKS AGAIN TO DOCTORS MATTHEW BOUCHONVILLE AND TAMARA SINGLETON.

AND THANKS TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.