>>This wee on NewsNight as hurricane season officially comes to an end, a look at the environmental challenges left in the wake of a devastating year of storms for Florida.

Plus, what made a change in administration in Washingto mean for Florida's environment?

NewsNight starts now.

[MUSIC] Hello, I'm Steve Mort welcome to NewsNight where we take an in-depth look at the top storie and issues in Central Florida and how they shap our community.

Tonight we're spending some time looking at environmental issues in our region and state.

First, with the holidays upon us, hurricane season is now well and truly in the rearview mirror.

But for many Floridians, the effects of Hurricanes Debbie, Helene, and Milton will linger for much longer.

The aftermath of Hurrican Milton, seen here on Florida's Gulf Coast.

It was the most powerful tropical cyclone of 2024, and one of the strongest ever recorded in the Atlantic, spawning a historic tornad outbreak in southeast Florida.

Milton caused tens of billion of dollars in estimated damage and economic cost to the state, placing an additional burden on an already stressed insurance market.

The rains and flooding are a reminder to central Floridians of the storm water challenges facing municipalities throughout the region.

Bringing aging infrastructure up to date is a costly and time consuming endeavor for local governments, especially as Florida's population continues to grow in vulnerable areas.

In a repor this year, a group of scientists blamed climate chang for rapid intensification, high rainfall totals and the flooding seen in many communities.

But Governor DeSantis disagrees and has downplayed the role of climate change.

In fact, state lawmakers this year voted to remove several instances of the term from the state code.

After Hurricane Ian in 2022, residents near the Saint Johns River experienced significant inland flooding, a feature of the 2024 season in some places, too.

And in coastal areas, officials report extremely high demand for state assistance to shore up condo buildings as costs rise for condominium owners amid state push for improved safety.

All right.

Well, let's bring in our panel now to break it all down.

Joining us in the studio this week, Asher Wildman, reporter at Spectrum News 13, also covers some environmental stories.

Thanks for coming in, Asher.

>>Thank you for having me.

>>Good to see you.

Amy Green based here in Florida for Inside Climate News.

Good to see you once again, Amy.

>>Nice to be here.

And Molly Duerig from Central Florida Public Media covers the environment over there.

Good to see you, Molly.

>>Great to be here with you >>Asher let me start with you.

You reported from Hillsborough County, right as Milton came on shore.

But before we talk about the environmental impacts, just give us a sense of how destructive that storm was for our Gulf Coast.

>>I think when everybody thinks Gulf Coast, you think the nice sand beaches, the difference is, oh, there's a lot of inland river that are also seeing rising waters come.

So there's people that ar in fact inland, but they happen to live on rivers.

And you're seeing the floodin impacts from these river bodies now overtaking homes.

You know, I think so many people have these images of whether it's a sterile island from Ian or a hurricane.

And you see the surge is take out these homes on the beach.

But the reality is when you see what the rising water levels at a river can do, it's nearly just as bad as what you're seeing from storm surge.

>>And I definitely want to get to that.

But let's talk about some of those environmental impacts.

First, Amy, from this hurricane season started with water quality, right?

I mean, Inside Climate News and others have investigated the pollution issues that come after hurricanes What are the concerns?

>>Yeah.

So flooding is a growing proble with these hurricanes.

And there's a couple of reason for that.

One is a sea level rise.

And that's causing storm surg to be bigger and more damaging.

And also warmin global temperatures are causing more water vapor and water evaporation.

Evaporation.

And that's causin these hurricanes to be rainier.

And so that's why we're seeing a lot of flooding with these hurricanes.

Hurricane Milton passed through an area with some industrial facilities, phosphate fertilizer companies and power plants with coal ash ponds.

And so there's a lot of opportunities for leaks and spills there.

Hurricane Milton there also were sewage spills reported with that Hurr - with that system.

>>Which of course is a problem when you get a lot of growth.

And we'll come to that as well.

Central Florida Public Media has looked extensively right at water quality issues, sort of associated with hurricanes, Molly.

Will we face is problem mor do you think as water continues to rise?

>>That' that's what it seems like.

Yes.

I think it's really important to emphasiz the inherent connection between water qualit and water quantity.

So flooding with floodin comes with it water quality challenges.

So with more wate that's bringing more stormwater runoff and all kinds of, chemicals and different things into the water bodies.

And then we've I've also spent some time with some folks after Hurricane Milton who actually had some flooding coming up from their wastewater system.

So that is also a concer with flooding and rising water.

Our wastewate systems can become overwhelmed.

And we know that with Florida's growth, that's already a concern.

And with more water, we nee to be paying attention to that.

>>We'v certainly seen that playing out.

I mean, what kinds of impacts can Hurricanes, Amy, have on Florida's fragile ecosystems?

You, of course, have written extensively about the Everglades.

For example, marine environments like the Indian River lagoon.

Are there problems that large wet storms have for those kinds of habitats?

>>Well, certainly.

And there are concerns about another season of toxic algae next summer because of these high waters and the nutrient pollution that goes along with it.

But I think it's also a reminder that if we take care of our environments, that our environments can take care of us, right?

I mean, if we could find the space to preserve more natural spaces where wate could pool rather than flooding developed, residential areas, that would be a good thing.

And another thing that we could do, Steve, is to take more steps to move away from fossil fuel emissions and move toward cleaner energy, which, of course, is fueling climate change and causing some of these hurricanes to be more destructive.

And countries from across the globe recently concluded talks in the Middle East, where they discussed way to maintain warming below that 1.5 degrees Celsius threshold that scientists say is is necessary to prevent the worst, impacts of climate change.

>>So one thing that that I think needs to be emphasized when it comes to water, two things.

The number one rule of water is water is always going to go to the lowest spot.

And then the second analog I always like to point out with water is you gotta think of it like a deli counter.

Once one spot is full, it's going to back up to wait for the next spot, and until that spot can clear up the lines, just backing u and backing up and backing up.

And unfortunately, we're running out of spots to put water because where the water is intended, it's supposed to go.

It's too much to handle with the new development, with the lack of space that's there from whether it's too much rain over saturated soils or whatever it may be, you got these two big problem that until either A) more land is created to big, deeper ponds, or B) water can divert somewhere quicker.

These are the tw giant questions that are there.

Same answer every time.

>>Well, we'll continue this discussion in just a moment.

In the meantime, a reminder to be sure to join this conversation on this or any of the issues we discuss here on NewsNight on social media, we're at WUCF TV, on Facebook and Instagram.

You'll also find us @NewsNightWUCF on X.

Well, whenever we have an impactful hurricane season now, of course, the discussion inevitably turns to climate change.

Here's what governor DeSantis had to say when asked about the role of climate change after Hurricane Milton.

>>I think there have bee about 27 hurricanes that have had lower barometri pressure on landfall than Milton did, and of those, 17 occurred, I think, prior to 1960 and the most powerful hurricane on record since the 1850s in the state of Florida occurred in the 1930s.

The Labor Day hurricane, barometric pressure on that was 892 millibars.

Totally wiped out.

The keys.

We've never seen anything like it.

And that remains head and shoulders above any powerful hurricane that we've ever had in the state of Florida.

Yeah, I just think people shoul put this in perspective there.

They tried to take different things that happened with tropical weather and act like it's something there's nothing new under the sun.

You know, this is something that the state has dealt with for its entire history.

And it's something that we'll continue to be to deal with.

I think what's change is we've got 23 million people.

A storm that hits is likely to hit more people and property than it would have 100 years ago.

And so the potential for for that damage, has grown.

>>Governor DeSantis there.

Okay, there has been some studies done on this hurricane season and the impacts of climate change.

What is the science telling us?

And I'll come to you first on this one, Amy, about whether climate chang had an effect this time around.

>>Yeah.

Well, we know that climate change is making these hurricanes more destructive.

And I just mentioned, you know, the sea level rise and storm surge aspect is one example of that.

Forecasters had expected this hurricane seaso would be extraordinarily active.

And one of the reasons fo that is these unusually warm sea surface temperatures that we continue to see in the Atlantic, in the Gulf-- >>Particularly in the Gulf-- >>Caribbean Sea.

Yeah.

You're exactly right.

And and it was a season that broke several records.

Hurricane Burl was the earliest category five hurricane to develop on record, and that was a hurricane that developed in July.

Hurricane Helene was the deadliest hurricane to strike the continental United States since Katrina and Hurricane Milton.

Its rate of rapid intensification was one of the greatest that's ever been observed.

>>Well, let's get a bit into that, development and growth thing.

And I know you've reported a lot on those flood maps.

I want to talk to you about it.

Florida's rapid growt sort of including in those flood prone area that we've been talking about, does appear, at least on the face of it, to be contributing to some of these impacts.

You've been covering sort of how government are grappling with keeping the the infrastructure that's needed to deal with this kind of stuff up to date.

What have you been seeing?

>>Yeah.

And up in Volusia County, specifically, that area took on a lot of rainfall during Hurricane Milton, like 18 inches in some parts.

And I really enjoyed Asher's analogy about the deli counter earlier.

I think that that is a really apt metaphor for one of the big problems here, which, yes, we are learning that maybe we need to build up higher, you know, higher building codes.

But what happens to the older homes that were built lower, according to older standards?

And there are many of them, one solution or one attempt at a solution.

Our stormwater ponds and developments.

And the idea is, you know, we know we're developing on sometimes we're developing on wetlands, which absorb flood waters.

So the water's got to g somewhere as Asher pointed out.

So sometimes when we develo wetlands, we'll put a stormwater pond there because, well, that will help keep the water that the wetlands would have taken.

But sometimes there are issues with that, too.

Are the stormwater ponds being maintained regularly?

You know, if the plant materia builds up, that can really stop water flow.

>>Yeah.

>>Can trap it there.

And again, just keeping in mind that as these newer developments are built up on higher ground there are lower, houses nearby.

And we kno Florida is growing really fast.

So this is an important issue all over.

>>Yeah.

>>Well I was gonna say for those at home, go get a bowl, fill it with water, drop a rock and see what happens with the water.

It's got to go somewhere.

A little science experiment.

I mean, it's simple.

I mean, really is that simple sometimes.

>>Are we seeing, improvements, in the flooding situation, in the resiliency situation in places where there has been work done over recent years, like, like Orlo Vista for example?

>>Yes, yes.

There.

So Orange County reports that they are there certain that the that the project there in Orlo Vista that that area had historically had really devastating-- >>Especially after Hurricane Ian.

>>It was a really devastated area.

And so they knew that they had to do something.

And that project is actually not even completely done.

It's I think as of, earlier this fall, it was about 97% done, but it's functioning pretty much as, as it's going to function once it's fully complete.

And we saw with Milton Orlo Vista was was fine.

There there wasn' I mean, I'm sure there was some isolated flooding, but nothing like what we saw after Ian.

And Orange County does attribute a lot of that to the reservoir projec in Orlo Vista, absorbing a lot, retaining a lot of water.

So.

>>Well, what about on the city level?

I mean, there are effort sort of throughout the region, right, at that level of municipality to kind of try to prepare and respond to storm.

Spectrum news 13 has been looking at that.

One example is Edgewater, right, that's in Volusia.

>>It's interesting.

Edgewater.

Edgewater now has a pla to come up with a plan.

Right.

That's that's what they're doing out there right now.

One good one though.

Sticking with Volusia County is what they did out in Daytona Beach near the golf course area trying to fill a Halifax River.

It was a simple infrastructure project which is you had a probably 40, 50 year old pipe out there that was supposed to take 24 to 30in of water.

It's been compressed down to probably taking eight inches of water.

And it's amazing what happens when you open that up.

Now you got the proper water flow going at the speed it's supposed to go.

But again, that's a simple infrastructure issue, right?

So this is something though that municipalities have to tackle because you sai it earlier, they're not cheap.

When you got to dig up ground, when you got to put in pipe that and seawalls, I mean seawall.

Back when Ian came out, those are $3000 to $5000 a square foot.

So I just imagine what now pipes are now pipes.

It's not just you're doin a 20ft pipe, you're doing a pipe from a golf course down to the river.

I mean, that's over 1000ft of pipe that you're not only replacing, but digging up and putting back in place.

So it's functioning the way it should be.

>>And we see incredibly expensive infrastructure projects in some part of the state, like Miami Beach, for example, where they've done a lot of resiliency work.

I mean, what is the plan to come up with a plan?

You've done some reporting in Edgewater, right?

>>Yes.

And I mean, I will say to tha I don't think it's a uniquely, totally unique to Edgewater issue.

I mean, this is a really big problems to solve, really expensive in Florida.

We've got a lot of low elevation, high water table.

You can't exactly go digging anywhere you'd like, as deep as you'd like all the time to install the infrastructure that you need.

So there is a lot of planning that needs to be done and a lot of planning that the state is requiring, on behalf of local governments.

And it is expensive work.

The question is, you know, are or are we investing now to mitigate future future issues?

And you know, future issues of flooding?

And so that's something that Edgewater residents are concerned abou looking at issues of the past, maybe development that happened before we knew and before obviously we saw increased rainfall and the impacts of climate change.

>>I mean, Asher mentioned, near the top of the show, this issue of inland flooding, and that has been a huge deal.

I mean, are you covered that particularly after Hurricane Ian, right?

In places like Seminole County, Osceola County, which saw a massive amount of of of inland flooding.

I mean, is that something do you think that that state leaders are addressing or have been addressing since then?

>>Yeah.

So at the state level, the DeSantis administration has implemented the Resilient Florida Florida program, and that's a program that provides funding for communitie to fortify their infrastructure against rising seas and hurricanes and flooding.

And that progra has helped a lot of communities, and that has been a good thing.

But construction, and projects like that are one concern when it comes to hurricanes.

I did a story after Milton that looked at the way, disaster dollars, FEMA and insurance dollars are distributed after natural disasters.

And this is research looking at natural disasters across the U.S, wildfires, flooding.

And the research found that the system the way these disaster dollars are distributed actually heightens disparities especially along racial lines.

And the research found tha white residents after a disaster tend to gain wealth, wherea residents of color lose wealth.

And the research even found that the more the disasters and the disaster dollar accumulate in these communities, the greater the disparities.

>>So many socioeconomic issues to deal with as well.

That issue of flooding, particularly along the Saint Johns River, is something tha you've been looking at as well.

I think you've been focusin on the community Osteen, right?

>>Well, so again, with Osteen.

Older community, old infrastructure and the seawall springs.

So you go to those homes, a lot of those homes that are along the river there have been built in the 50s and 60s, and it's a 1950, 1960 seawall.

And I guarantee you the the base flood elevation has changed out there.

But the other thing you got to keep in mind with rivers as development continues around rivers, when you're taking out those trees, when you're taking out thos deep roots along the river line, you're actually causing more erosion.

You're causing more problems, right?

That's another thing.

And now you're starting to see more, rock walls being built i to kind of prevent that erosion.

And the other thing people seem to forget with rivers is they change all the time.

So one day the river might be, you know, x amount of feet going one direction but after a major storm event, it shifts again.

Again, water needs to get to its lowest point.

So this is a evolving thing with rivers that again, science is contributing to.

Yeah.

And that is to what Mothe Earth had intended for rivers.

Rivers were never just goin to be the way they are forever.

I mean, it's just not how they work.

But I do think that the development is having a major issue in contributing to erosion of rivers because we are taking out these deep root systems.

>>Just finally on this one, and I wanted to talk about a little bit about those flood maps that you've you've reported on so much.

I mean, FEMA is now reportedly trying to crack down on building in these disaster prone areas going to do that.

>>So the way that FEMA can try to do that is, there's like this rule, basically, if half 50% of a home is destroyed or more of a home's value, then FEMA's rule is, is usually basically take that home down, tear it down, rebuild it on higher ground.

It's not going to work here anymore.

And so there have been recentl some some issues in Lee County and Florida, with FEMA saying, you know, you guys keep building in these areas, these flood prone areas that you're not supposed to.

And so we might not give you the discount on flood insurance anymore that you're used to.

And so there's been some that is sort of the mechanism that they could take.

And that's a really interesting conundrum, because you're trying to incentivize people to communitie to build more sustainably and, you know, with more intention to make with more resilience.

But if they don't, you know, what?

What's the outcome?

You're just going to let them, you know, flood again.

So it's just a such a difficult problem, to, to solve.

>>It's funny you say that because covering a sterile island after Hurricane Ian, the attitude is we're going to build and we and the fact that th people that were building homes there told me straight up, they're like, we know in 10 or 15 year this is going to happen again.

And I go, why do you keep doing it?

You know, well, new money comes in, new developer come in, new builders come in.

But eventually a place is going to look lik a bunch of giraffes on giraffe stilts out there with homes 20ft up in the air.

And even those are not high enough in some areas.

>>It' a long term planning.

>>Right.

But as long.

Look, money is the root of all evil, and money solves a lot of problems.

And once I had a contract, contractors tell me you can do anything with anything you want with enough money.

>>And we already see thos stilt homes in a lot of places.

Alabama.

The keys, for example.

It's a sign of the kind of development challenge that we face on the Gulf Coast.

You can find a link on our website to the study I mentioned in my earlier connecting the effects of this year's hurricane season to climate change.

It's from a group of scientist with World Weather Attribution.

It's at our website, wucf.org/newsnight.

You'll also find a link to a story from Inside Climate News on that issue as well.

We've talked about the position of state leaders on environmental policy.

But what about thos at the federal level?

The incomin Trump administration has a different se of priorities I think it's fair to say from the Biden White House when it comes to the environment.

So what might it mean for Florida?

Asher, this is kind of a key thin that we're going to be watching over over the coming weeks.

I mean, Trump picked the former congressman, Lee Zeldin, to lead the EPA broadly.

I mean, given the president elect's history of sort of deregulation, we can expec a pretty significant departure right from what we've see from the Biden administration.

>>I would say so.

And what I'll say about this, though, is, you know, let's just kind of remember Trump's background and histor here.

It's a business decision, right Yeah.

You know, for instance, let' just look at like the EV cars, one of his biggest supporters with Elon Musk.

Now do I think he's going t tell Tesla stop making cars.

No.

But do I think he might tell Ford and other manufacturers, hey, you don't have to make him any EV, vehicles as you have been making.

So I think if there's a way that economically makes sense to benefit, I think there are certain areas that I think he will put some extra environmental, protections into, whether it's the state of Florida.

He has a lot of connections here in the state of Florida.

But then like, look at Alaska.

Do I think he's going to have a lot of environmental thought for the great state of Alaska?

Honestly, I don't think so.

I think drill baby drill has been his memo.

That's what he's told people he's going to drill there.

I think you might see some protections here in Florida.

But I think at the end of the day, it's going to be a business decision, not an environmental one.

When it comes to Trump, at least in the state of Florida.

>>Well you reported on this issue during the election, particularly when it came to the candidates and the US Senate race.

I mean, assumin that Senator Scott's priorities somewhat align with those of th incoming Trump administration, but can we draw any conclusions about what the administration's priorities might be?

>>Yeah.

So just to focus on Senator Scott for a second, and he very resoundingly beat Debbie Murcasel Powell for that Florid Senate seat in November.

Many viewers will remembe when Scott was our governor in Florida.

And as governor, he really focused his administration on jobs, and he really gutted environmental programs.

He was very known to say he was not a scientist.

When asked about climate change.

And he went as far as to ban the words climate change reportedly from state agencies.

In the Senate, he voted with other Republicans against the Inflation Reduction Act, which of course contains a lot of funding for moving the country toward cleaner energy.

But, since Hurricane Helene, he appears it's possible that he is changing his views or changing his rhetoric when it comes to climate change.

In an interview with CNN, he said that it was clea that the climate was changing.

>>Yeah.

What do you think, Molly?

I mean, what do you think environment interest groups are going to be looking at when it comes to this new administration, particularly here in Florida?

>>Right.

Well, our conversation right now about sort of balancing environmental interests with, you know, economic interests has me thinking quite a bi about the controversy a little earlier this year abou state parks here in Florida.

When there were proposal to develop golf courses on, on many of them.

And so it really brings up this question of like how we value the environment.

And, you know, obviously there like there's a lot of value in economic growth, especially when we have the latest estimate from the Demographic Estimating Conference is 870 new people a day in Florida, projected in the coming years.

And so, obviously, we do need to develop and we need resources.

But but how do you put a value on also our natural lands, you know, wetlands, that absorb flood waters and all of these other things that we value.

Wildlife.

Florida is home to so many precious species of wildlife.

And, you know, more freshwater, than anywhere in the world.

So, and the aquifer.

And so it really it really is a difficult question but it's a very important one of how do we weigh the values of all, of all of those?

>>Let me try to read the tea leaves of the what the Trump administration is, is going t do is unusual in this situation in that he's coming back for a second term.

Right.

So Trump actually has a record that we can see, particularly when it comes to to conservation in Florida.

I mean, can we learn anything.

Do we think guys about what he might do projects like Everglades restoration, from what his first administration did?

>>Yeah.

So Trump, you know very famously has characterized climate change as a hoax.

He has said that he would withdraw the US from the Paris accord and he would roll back the Inflation Reduction Act when it comes to important environmental programs, federal programs in Florida like the like Everglades restoration.

I think it's unlikely tha he would mess with that funding, because that program has such strong bipartisan support.

And, of course the DeSantis administration has has been very supportive of Everglades restoration.

I have heard concerns raised by at least one Everglades advocate over the regulatory aspect.

And, during his first presidency, Trump rolled back regulations more than 100 regulations on air, water endangered species and health.

And this Everglades advocate said to me that, you know, money for restoration projects is important, and that's good, but it's importan that those projects are paired with a robust and healthy regulatory system that can ensure the water quality is there, so that the projects can work the way they're supposed to.

>>What about the issue of fossil fuel extraction?

I mean, the president elec has strongly advocated for that.

During the campaign, governo DeSantis, as well, when he was running for president, did the same.

That's a thorny issue, though, right?

In Florida, Trump had previously blocked offshore drilling off the state.

I wonder whether that is going to continue with that whole, as you mentioned, Drill Baby Drill mantra, there is a tension there when it comes to Florida and offshore drilling.

>>You're right.

Yes.

The, Trump and DeSantis too, when he was a presidential candidate, you know, had have talked to, you know, they've used this rhetoric of energy dominance.

And but Floridians are as you say, very opposed to oi drilling off of Florida coast.

Our coasts are such a strong tourist draw, obviously.

And, and also to, when it comes to climate change, surveys show that Floridians are more likel than other Americans to believe that climate change is real and happening, and that there should be state and federal programs to address that.

>>Now the fascinating area of policy to watch as we go into the new year, for sure but that is all the time we have for this week.

My thanks to our panel this week, Asher Wildman from Spectrum News 13.

Good to see you today.

>>Thanks for having me.

>>Amy Greene from Inside Climate News, thanks for coming back o the program Amy.

>>My pleasure.

>>Good to see you and Molly Duerig from Central Florida Public Media.

Good to see you toda Molly.

>>Great to be with you.

>>Thank you guys so much for coming in today.

We'll see you next Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF with the first of two part look back at the top stories of 2024.

In the meantime, from all of us here at NewsNight, take car and have a great holiday season.