>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour will be made in an area that is off limits to us today.

I'm talking about parts of the High Falls Gorge, which will soon be the site of the forthcoming High Falls State Park.

Construction could begin late next year, and with it being done in phases, it's likely you'll be able to access parts of the park as it is developed.

The vision for the 40 acre site includes overlooks, a playground, woodland areas and reclaimed green spaces and more.

You'll see new infrastructure as well as preserved ruins of old industrial buildings like a former incinerator.

New designs of these plans were recently released and we're going to show you them this hour.

If you are watching on the WXXI News YouTube stream, we'll also post them on our website and WXXI.

Brian Sharp has been covering this story for years now, from the initial plans to build the park to the first major cleanup project near the plant, to these new designs.

Obviously there's been a lot in the works and Brian is here this hour, along with representatives from the state and park planning team to help us explore what you can expect, how the park is going to be expected to benefit the area, and when you can enjoy it.

Maybe the park in phases.

We're going to talk about this with Brian Sharp, who is a business and development reporter.

Investigations and enterprise editor for WXXI News.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

And with us this hour, Vincent Esposito Vinnie is senior vice president for regional economic development at Empire State Development and special adviser for Upstate intergovernmental affairs for the office of Governor Kathy Hochul.

Thanks for being back on the program.

Nice to be back next to Vinny.

Vinny is Stephanie Hyde, an engagement planner at Highland Planning.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And Carl Flora is with us, an architect and project manager for High Falls State Park.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

The fact that there is a project manager for High Falls State Park means High Falls State Park is happening.

Carl.

>> It's happening.

>> I don't know if you know this.

It's really going to be a thing Vinny was saying before the program began.

Rock the Riverway goes back to.

>> 2018.

>> 2018, I think.

Again, what is time anyway?

But post-pandemic especially, I think I would have said it was 3 or 4 years.

So yeah, it's been a lot of years in the works here.

>> And a lot of years before that in terms of bringing great ideas to the fore.

And that's what that vision has done for downtown.

And High Falls State Park is the next big one.

>> Well, and you know, Brian, as you've reported for years on a number of different developments and ideas, you know, there's a lot of stages and phases and doesn't always get done.

It's not because there's not interest or will.

It's a lot to put together.

So I think when people saw your story this week, it was it felt more real for I think that's the reason it's gotten so much traction on our platforms is it's starting to feel real.

What do you think?

>> Yeah.

No, I mean, I think we've seen we've seen, you know, a handful of, of renderings and early ideas and maps and such.

But this was really for me as well.

The more most complete, like you could actually, I spent a good amount of time on the pictures, just also sort of trying to describe where you're at and put them in the right order so you could actually feel like you were going through the park and you could see, you know, how the pieces would fit together.

and yeah, and I mean, these are the folks who are who are doing it and know it.

and to be able to start imagining that.

Yeah, maybe in a couple of years we'll be down there.

>> Yeah.

And in a moment, we'll start showing you some of the images on our platforms, especially if you're watching on YouTube.

You'll be able to see.

But before we do that, I did think one thing really stood out to me that was interesting.

As we mentioned in the introduction, the mayor of Rochester told you that they're not going to wait until this whole thing is done in 40 acres, that this could be a phase by phase opening.

>> Yeah.

No.

And that's, you know, that's what his I liked his phrase.

He said, we'll be you know, we'll get you down there to touch the water.

which I think and that's the, the thing for like Vinnie was saying before this, not many people have been down there.

Probably not many people have been down by lower Falls.

And to be able to experience what this place is like, to go somewhere that is, you know, you feel like you are completely away from the city.

Yeah, but the city is just right up there, you know?

But you have just the slice of nature and, and all the work that's being done to clean it up and bring it back to to what it was.

it's just it's a really special place.

>> It is.

And it's not an easy site.

If you haven't been there, I'm going to sound like an evangelist, and I'm not.

I happen to work.

We work next door, so a lot of our coffee breaks, especially in the warm months, are out there in the rain and overlooking the site.

And if if you haven't been on the run looking around, it's going to hit you that there's a piece of landscape that really doesn't look like anything else in our city.

It doesn't look like anything in a lot of different places.

It's it's beautiful, but it's sort of unkempt and there's so much potential there.

So it is pretty wild to see it in happening.

And Vinnie, I go back to this quote that you told Brian in 2023.

You said one of the unique aspects about urban parks is they often have a huge economic advantage for the community they're in.

They're not like a rural state park that wouldn't impact property values or economic activity other than some facet of tourism.

Urban parks are different beasts.

This could be one of those examples, do you think?

>> Oh, it will be, yeah.

No.

We're very much focused on what Brian was just talking about and making it an urban refuge and making the park a special place.

But we're also very much intentionally designing this to have a positive impact on the city's economy.

>> And I you know, I'm not I'm not trying to be a naysayer.

I'm trying to just understand how the timeline works here and how much of a done deal, how how much is it likely we're going to be sitting here a year from now going, yep.

We're seeing shovels in the ground, or we're seeing days away from shovels in the ground.

>> It's very likely.

I mean, nothing's ever sold 100%.

But as Carl said, this is happening.

We have had a very concerted, very professional effort for the last 16 months to design it, to bring it to this point, which is why in your intro, it feels more real, because it is.

The initial concepts were great when the governor announced this three years ago.

It was exciting, but this is now looking and feeling like a park and like a very special place for Rochester.

>> Well, and Stephanie will be able to talk as we go throughout this hour about, you know what, as an engagement planner what everyone here has been hearing from the community, what people want, what people need.

Really.

Same with Carl talking about getting the community connected to it, because to your point, Brian Sharp, this is not a very typical space.

I think people when we had those first conversations in the last year and a half about this, people were like, are you going to be able to drive to it?

How do you access it?

Can you walk to it from surrounding neighborhoods?

I felt like there were a lot of unanswered questions there.

do you feel like we're starting to get some of those answers now?

>> Yeah.

I mean, you're seeing the different access points that that folks can go down.

sort of this at least as best as I could tell from the the zigzag trail down where Beebe Station used to be.

I don't know if at one point had I think it's the waterworks building, there was going to be this giant elevator.

I don't know if that's still in the offing, but yeah, I think just being able to start seeing it and seeing the, the cleanup happening you know, there's there's other entities, G and E being one, investing a good amount of money down there.

one thing, I guess that I'm curious on is to your point of it being real.

If I'm understanding.

Right.

We don't have money yet, though, for the construction.

Right.

And where that's going to come from.

>> That's the biggest open question to getting it done.

But you know, that's all part of the process.

>> Oh, come on, Senator, you got to tell me more about that.

>> Well, the state senator.

>> That's the term I use when I think someone's dodging a question.

So the state's committed like 8 million so far.

>> 8 million to design.

Absolutely.

>> And and what is a realistic expectation that of how much more the state can do.

>> To.

Well, the state will build the park.

But you mean how much it's going to be.

>> Yeah.

I mean, like, how much does the state expect going forward.

Is there going to be an annual outlay, upkeep, et cetera.

>> So this is you've talked about phasing this in the mayor's point.

This is going to be built in sections in phases, mostly as the land becomes available after it's cleaned up by the owners, because that's one of the big issues that everybody knows is the land down there has been contaminated from its past industrial uses.

As that gets cleaned, we will be opening sections of the park, basically working from the falls northward.

and so, you know, we will also then most likely fund the construction in phases.

>> I like that I think Brian's reporting indicates I think we got to keep Incinerator Plaza as a name.

>> It's become quite the thing it did in Carl smirking.

You got to bring this guy in because he's the brains behind a lot of this.

But he loves Incinerator Plaza, and it's become quite a point of conversation.

>> Well, the idea of there being an old incinerator there.

Again, if you haven't been to the site, it's it's not just, you know, tumbleweeds down there.

The old incinerator is interesting.

I'm going to talk to Carl in a second.

I do want to ask you if the Kodak Park experience.

Does that lend any useful knowledge on how to deal with sites?

I mean, this is not the same thing.

Exactly.

>> Kodak Park is in what we now call Eastman Business Park.

>> Yeah.

I mean, like the former Kodak, which was not a traditional set of buildings that used to employ 65,000 people.

You know, there was chemical cleanup.

There was, you know, remuneration that had to happen there.

And now there's a lot of different stuff there.

does that help at all in dealing with a site like this, or is that apples and oranges?

>> It's apples and oranges.

I mean, this is reclaiming former industrial use for a public purpose and for a park.

I mean, Eastman Business Park.

We've repurposed and cleaned up things for business use and new industrial uses.

So it's a different thing.

I'm sure there are some lessons to learn, certainly on remediation.

but in terms of making this a special place for the public to enjoy for generations, I think it's a.

>> Little different.

Whole different mission.

Yeah.

So, Carl, what is Incinerator Plaza?

What a.

>> First question, Carl.

>> Come on.

>> Man, it's my favorite part.

so, you know, one of the exciting opportunities is the presence of all these industrial relics in the park.

And I think the most powerful industrial relic is the old incinerator building.

Aside from the smokestack, which is probably the most powerful visual cue, aside from the falls the building next to it, which is currently in ruins could provide an opportunity for a walled terrace seating area for patrons to the park to enjoy it from a new perspective.

>> I think that's.

I think it's a great idea.

People might be wondering, you know, why not just sort of take the whole thing apart and start fresh on the site?

Why preserve any part of that?

>> It's important to honor the legacy of what happened here.

There's a lot of stories to be told of what happened at High Falls, and that's certainly one of them.

>> I think we have an image of Incinerator Plaza, where the old incinerator sits today.

Is that something we can access there?

If you're watching on YouTube and where you should, and hopefully you subscribe there.

There you go.

So for those who are not seeing it on YouTube, you want to talk a little bit more about what they're seeing there, Carl.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

We're envisioning this as being a place for folks to take a break.

kind of a walled garden again.

celebrating those industrial relics that exist throughout the site.

This might be a place where we could have food trucks, or people can grab coffee or a sandwich or something like that.

>> Who put these renderings together, by the way?

>> Our consultant team, led by Olin landscape architects.

>> They have done a wonderful job.

I mean, it is it is a really cool set of images that as we will show you some more here.

In fact, maybe we'll scroll through more here.

And what we can do is again, encourage you to watch on YouTube.

But this is an audio medium too.

So if you're not watching, we'll talk more about that.

This is one of my favorite.

You just got a bunch of people overlooking the falls.

there.

And this is a an image that if you haven't stood near this waterfall, if you haven't really been up close there, I think the power of it, the breadth of it takes your breath away a little bit the first time.

That's how I felt the first time I was on Punturin.

What about you?

>> Absolutely.

we've had the privilege of visiting the site many times and bringing a lot of folks down for the first time, and it's a it's an almost transformative experience being there.

how often do you get to experience that in the middle of a city?

It's remarkable.

And that's, I think, what we're most excited about at parks to share that experience with patrons.

>> Is this Island overlook.

>> Yeah, we're envisioning this being on the island.

bridges connecting it to the east and west and giving people a new vantage point of seeing the falls for the first time.

>> Yeah, obviously, the first experience that many Rochesterians have with this is going to Genesee Brew House.

And so maybe you like I you've been up at the brew house and you go, wait a minute, there's an island here.

I mean it's a really cool set of geography down there isn't it.

>> It is.

It's very unique.

geographically.

And, you know, ecologically it's very unique.

And I think that's one of the, the hallmarks of this park.

You know, we are going to celebrate that, that unique geology and, all of the nature that exists there now.

And we're going to build on it too and celebrate that.

>> So we'll keep scrolling through some of the images here.

So again, if you're on YouTube, join us there on WXXI News.

You'll see or you'll see Brian Sharp reporting on our various platforms for WXXI News.

A lot of people have been checking this out.

Stephanie Hyde is an engagement planner at Highland Planning.

Take us through your role here and what you're hoping to do to make sure people do have the engagement with this project that you want.

>> Yeah.

So I can talk to what we've done so far.

last year we've had the open house, which was in November, and that was attended by 110 community members.

we also have an advisory and community group that is represented, represented by people from the community.

we did a direct mailer to 4000 people or households around the High Falls State Park neighborhood as well.

And then our online survey, which reached 290 responses in addition to our targeted outreach, we've been at the Genesee Land Trust River forum, focus, the Festival of Inclusion the Pond Bridge opening the Genesee River Watch Summit tabling the Edgerton Arts Center tabling, and then the Greenatopia dinner on the bridge.

So the goal is really to meet people where they're at, but also have that broad sense of engagement as well.

So giving people the chance to give their input at multiple stages of the project.

>> Stephanie, this is one of those places in Rochester that you know, I moved here in 2023, and the first time I was down in this area, I felt like I didn't know why.

I didn't know about this sooner.

I didn't know why.

I didn't see more things happening nearby.

And I can't force development.

I mean, all the way back in my first reporting days covering mayor Bill Johnson's efforts to make this district that we're in right now, High Falls entertainment district, that struggled.

To me, it's logical.

It's a great space, but you can't make people do it at the same time, it sounds like there's a lot of interest in this state park here.

Are you concerned at all when you see, like, the fact that there hasn't been as much development as sometimes maybe city planners wanted or maybe the community hasn't always accessed spaces as much.

Are you worried that people won't know about this or won't access it, or do you think that will change here?

When this is open?

>> I definitely think it will change because what we've heard is people are excited about a park and they just want it to be represented like in the community, that the way they want to see it and having ways for them to get involved.

So like I said, with the pop ups is one way, but also going directly to people as well.

So having those touchpoints where people can be able to give their input but also have the chance to like see different elements as well, is important.

>> I do think.

Vincent Esposito this is one of the really neat neighborhoods in Rochester, and I would have bet that an entertainment district would have worked here.

You know, there's a lot of businesses that open that are no longer open down here.

but when it comes to what happens next with this park, my understanding is no private development sort of down on the banks.

What happens?

What do you expect to happen in the surrounding area as a result of this?

>> Yeah, we're intentionally designing it.

So in the gorge will not be overly programmed or overly commercial.

We're not even really planning to have full time food concessions because we want the park to be a magnet for this area that helps business grow up.

Above here, where we are in the High Falls district, or what we've seen with the brewhouse, I think the the brewhouse over Genesee really changed this community's entire way of looking at High Falls.

It opened, I think, 12 years ago now and immediately became a huge hit and opened people's eyes to the falls themselves, because it's the best vantage point that we have.

>> Absolutely.

>> And the commercial potential around it.

And you're starting to see some of that happen.

It's all been very slow going.

You know, we've been working on a lot of things across downtown.

But Rock the Riverway at its core is a way to take advantage of the waterfront that the river brings downtown and help it for all aspects of city life working, living and playing.

>> So to your point, I mean, it doesn't all happen overnight, but when possible, tenants see what's going on at the brewhouse.

I'm sure that they understand how successful that's been.

how do you see the timeline of maybe developing in a way that says, hey, can the state step in and help?

Do you need to be more aggressive?

are there things that you can do to sort of create incentives for, for more businesses, or does it have to happen purely organically?

>> No.

The state certainly provides incentives.

but the biggest incentive we can do is to make Rochester a desirable place for your business to be located, mostly because it's where your workers want to be.

We saw that not only with the brewhouse, but just a few years ago when Constellation Brands opened its world headquarters in the aqueduct building that beautifully restored historic building right at the corner of the historic aqueduct that the Erie Canal went over, that helped found Rochester.

We're going to see more of that.

We are seeing more of that just around the corner here.

We have a new company, Green Spark Solar, that's already announced.

It's going to be building its headquarters on the edge of the gorge overlooking the new park.

And I'm not saying they came here because of it, but I'm certain it was something that helped them feel better about their decision.

And I know people I'm talking to who have renewed interest in this part of the city.

The park is one of the catalysts, and that's going to continue to increase as it becomes more real with things like we, you know, have seen with the release of these designs.

And as we start to open up and construct the phases.

>> A member of local government, Brian Sharp told me, you know, that every, every journalist in town should have made a bigger deal.

The fact that you've got a fortune 500 company that's moving back down to Rochester, you know, he's talking about constellation that these stories need more.

Now, you've covered that.

I informed that the Brian Sharp covers all things business and development, and that they ought not miss that.

But in sort of in the context of this city, I don't disagree that that is a big story.

Do you think that's been underplayed?

Do you think a story like that?

And because all the context of the last decade has been what's either going to the suburbs or what's either going away, and when you see development like that, I think sometimes people say, well, you're being either or, you're being a cheerleader for the city or you're ignoring it.

You're not covering it enough.

I mean, I think it's a big story, and I don't think it makes us cheerleaders to cover it.

>> Yeah.

No, I mean, I think, you know, then you also have some folks who are saying you're spending too much time talking about just what's happening downtown.

You know.

>> You can't.

>> Win.

so, no, I think, you know, the development that we're seeing, also the development we still need to see downtown.

the thing I remember when I speaking of first getting here, one of the things that struck me coming from the Midwest, where we don't have, you know, big, huge lakes and, and all that is, is how much Rochester for the longest time turned its back on its water, you know, turned didn't embrace the fact that it has this unique feature both running through it and, and, you know, up at the lake the limited abilities that you had to get out on the water.

I always point to the, you know, we have a hotel that put its carport by the water, which is insane.

and now we're we're starting, you know, and not just starting.

We have been, but embracing the fact that they say.

>> Carport in the Midwest.

>> Or whatever you want to call it.

but that's another area that needs investment.

is fixing that hotel, obviously.

But yeah, that we're starting to now embrace this, this feature not just for and to what he was talking about, you know, there there is though, the whole industrial use of this gorge Gaga, Bausch and Lomb, the city and and how it was used to power the city at times, you know and what we can learn from that and a whole story to tell there as well.

>> Yeah.

I don't I mean, I can't disagree with anything that Brian just said here.

So before I turn back to our other guests, I just want to ask Vinnie, and we'll take some feedback from Melissa.

I've got emails and we've got phone calls.

We'll take in just a second.

So Charles, we'll get your feedback there.

Alex, we'll take your phone call in just a second.

do you think the the constellation story was underplayed?

Do you think that was a big story for Rochester?

A fortune 500 story there?

>> Well, I know it was a big story for Rochester.

Whether or not it was underplayed, I'm not really sure.

I mean, Brian does do an excellent job covering these things.

Of course, I would like more coverage of the positive things that happen, and there are a lot.

They just aren't often as large as some things that people see that attract their attention.

But the progress downtown is undeniable, and a lot of it is due to the partnership that the city has had with the state.

Governor Hochul has invested incredible amounts in almost every building Brian's mentioned and others through programs like Rockler with like the Downtown Revitalization Initiative, like Restore New York.

We're bringing every resource we can bring to try to restore downtown Rochester.

It matters significantly as the center of our region and as of our economy.

So, you know, these are things that we will continue doing.

We've been doing for a very long time.

And honestly, any objective review over the last few years, you can't help but see progress.

If you just remember ten years ago with the Sibley Building, was looking like when it was empty and what it looks like today when it is now full.

And if you go there at lunchtime, it is booming.

It shows what's possible and particularly what's possible with restoring these beautiful historic buildings that we have.

So that's what we're trying to do.

That's what we are doing.

And I think High Falls State Park is a very big part of it, because it's an attraction that's open for everyone.

It's a state park.

State parks does an incredible job of making their resources something that everyone enjoys one way or another, don't cost a lot of money, and that will open people's eyes to other things in downtown.

I think it's going to bring people downtown that otherwise are not coming here.

And also be an incredible amenity for people that live in these neighborhoods, which is why we're designing it that way.

>> Some feedback from listeners, Dave, watching on YouTube says, looks really beautiful.

Reminds me a bit of Ithaca Falls.

yeah, I guess so.

I haven't been there recently.

everything here is bigger, man.

But yeah, I, I it is beautiful.

and Alex and Rochester wants to jump in about environmental cleanup.

Go ahead.

Alex.

>> Yeah.

it's been a while since I looked at this, but I thought the reason this hadn't developed previously is because the emissions of coal.

Coal tar, pitch, volatiles, volatiles into the water basin underneath the falls, which were heavier and sunk underneath the the soil there, making it almost impossible to remove.

When I read Ryan's plan, they were going to grab what was easy and leave a lot of it down there with vents which they could then monitor.

And if more became because it moves around, if more became available to remove, the would remove it.

But as I understand it, not only is touching coal tar pitch volatile volatiles dangerous, but the off gassing from it is also dangerous.

And how much of this has been removed?

How big a risk does this pose?

And when, if ever, is all of it going to be out from underneath the basin of the falls?

>> All right, Alex, thank you.

Any anybody want to jump on this?

>> I'll take it.

Since none of us are really qualified to answer that question.

but it's true.

I think the biggest impediment to any development of this site in the Gorge and access for it publicly in general, has been the contamination from the various uses.

I can't speak specifically to that pollutant that the caller was just referencing, but there are a number of remediations that are happening right now and being overseen by the Department of Environmental Conservation to ensure that we're not going to open a park that's not safe.

>> You're not going to shortcut the work.

That's got.

>> To know.

That's why it's taking so long, right?

I mean, we talked about, you know, Governor Hochul announced this three years ago.

We haven't even put a shovel in the ground yet, because I shouldn't say we haven't.

Our genie has, but because cleanup is the most is the number one priority and is a long term thing.

So we have several parcels down in the gorge.

Only one of them has been cleaned up to this point.

Others have to, including, you know, items that are in the river.

and so, you know, that's that's ongoing work.

That's important work.

None of it's possible if we don't get it cleaned up to a site.

And in fact, the state parks has been very clear from the outset.

The state won't open a park and won't assume any land that has contamination that provides liability or is unsafe for people to access.

>> Alex, thank you.

And maybe related to that, Chris emailed to ask, who owns these 40 acres?

So what's.

>> A combination of owners, primarily Randy Bausch and Lomb, the city of Rochester and Genesee Brewery?

>> Okay.

>> And the state of New York, I should say we do own some of the land.

>> And the state.

Okay.

But none of that is going to be a hindrance to getting this done.

>> I don't think so.

There's a plan in place to clean up all of the properties to a level that are acceptable for park use.

and then we will have the state acquire and access them.

>> Brian Sharp.

Do you want to jump in here?

>> I was just looking back.

We did a story, in fact, and he was a little surprised when we called and said, we want to go down and do a story about your cleanup.

because it was huge.

And I was just looking back on the story we did.

It was the first one, first of five, I think, sites, $26 million.

300,000yd or 60,000 tons of soil removed and cleaned up as part of that.

and that's just one of the cleanup projects.

So when I say significant investment is going in ahead of time, it's.

And the city still has to go on the incinerator.

Bausch and Lomb RG and E still.

And I'm missing the fifth one.

>> Well there are multiple properties.

Arginine has several.

>> Okay.

Chris, I hope that answered that question.

Alex, thank you for that.

Here's what we're going to do on the other side of this break.

We're going to share more of the images with you.

And I want to talk more with Karl and Stephanie about what is likely to be coming our way.

We had a couple questions about timeline here.

So again, Brian Sharp reporting, if you haven't seen that earlier this week, everyone involved from the mayor on down says, you know, this is going to be a phased opening, but, you know, do we have a are we starting to see a full timeline come together?

We'll talk a little bit more about that for High Falls State Park had a couple questions on parking, on access, on cost to enter.

So we'll hit all that stuff and we'll talk more about, you know, what kind of input they're still looking for.

I mean, Stephanie Hyde is doing this work.

I've been talking to as Stephanie mentioned, people across our community and a lot of different forums about what people want to see there, making sure the park does reflect being an inclusive one for the community.

So we'll talk more about that a lot more to share with you.

Stephanie Hyde Engagement Planner at Highland Planning.

Next to Vincent Esposito from New York State, the Senior Vice President for Regional Economic Development at Empire State.

Of course, Brian Sharp right next to me.

The investigations in enterprise editor for WXXI News and also reporting on business and development and Carl Flora, an architect and project manager for High Falls State Park.

We'll come right back on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections, a conversation about the ozempics of the weight loss drugs.

Obviously they're on fire right now.

A lot of people are using them.

We'd love to hear your experience.

And we're going to talk about what happens when people get them without a prescription, and whether insurance covers them.

In our second hour, we're talking to the team from Open Door Mission about what's been a challenging year, a new partnership and their plans to deal with homelessness in our community.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson there's an elevator.

There's going to be.

Is that really going to happen?

Brian Brian was just talking during the break here with the panel here.

And there was talk about taking an elevator all the way down.

That's going to happen.

>> You think?

Yeah, that's still in the planning stages.

Working with one of the properties above the gorge to access so we can have an elevator for full utilization and access by people of all abilities.

>> So let's talk to Carl about some of that, because some of the questions we've gotten involve parking and access.

So elevator.

Yes.

But also what.

>> a lot of community Connections at the top of the gorge.

It's a pretty complicated site to get people into, because right now there's one way in and one way out on each side.

one of the big differences between the 2022 concept plan and the current framework plan is we have nine community gateways.

So we're envisioning, various multi-modal Connections, be it trails, roads, the elevator to allow folks from the adjacent community access and easy access to the park.

>> And easy access, including a fee or no fee to get into the park.

>> There will be no fee to get into the park.

no fees, no fee.

>> Okay.

and what else should people know about getting to it?

Anything that that involves either the neighborhood's bus routes, et cetera.?

>> we've been coordinating closely with the city of Rochester to make sure that all of the Connections that we're providing interface.

Well, with the various trail initiatives that the city is undertaking.

as far as parking, we have 40 acres, which gets used up pretty quick when you incorporate vast parking lots.

So we envision most of the parking occurring at the top of the gorge.

there's a lot of opportunities from the city owned parking garage to street parking.

we do plan to expand the parking lot at High Falls Terrace and really minimize the amount of vehicles in the gorge itself.

>> If this if there's anything the city needs, it's more parking.

>> Detect sarcasm.

>> OSHA this is one of those things.

It's like Bill Smith said last hour, the supervisor of Pittsford who was on, he said, you really find out what people care about when something you don't expect to catch fire does.

For him, it was trash removal in Pittsford here it's parking.

We could do a show on parking and phones would be lit up the entire hour.

People are very fired up about that, but safe to say, Carl, you're going to try to make sure people, however they're getting here, will have access to what is a complicated site, even if it includes the elevator going down.

Right?

>> Yes, absolutely.

We are focused on going beyond Ada, which is a minimum for accessibility and really focusing on universal access to the park and all features of the park.

>> And where does the elevator go?

>> We're working on that.

>> Oh.

>> So just and I'm assuming, I think, you know, in my mind everybody knows where this is and what this looks like.

But you've probably done the I was just trying to do the math quick on my phone.

So but to give people an idea of how far down this is, these 40 acres below the city, it's my guesstimate here was like 8 to 10 stories down.

>> That's accurate.

>> Yeah, it's almost 100ft from the cliff edges.

>> Wow.

And you know, one of the things that you remember when you see, one of the things I think about when I'm on punturin is there's not a lot of rivers.

I don't think this is not my expertise.

I don't think there's a lot of rivers that flow south to north.

and this is Genesee is one of them.

Maybe the only somebody fact.

>> Checking the.

>> Nile I'm going to give myself.

Oh, is that right?

>> I think there are two of the only in the world.

>> I mean, I'm going to get myself in trouble if I don't fact check it, but, you know, so you see the, the the river flowing this way and that's maybe it's kind of counterintuitive.

>> That was so disorienting to me.

It's weird how much you.

>> A north flowing river?

>> Because I lived.

I lived because I started working when I got here at the DNC.

And my ability to.

Just because your mind internalizes that water flows south to get myself oriented correctly, that, you know, now, I'm not going to point the right way anyways.

I won't.

embarrass.

>> Myself.

>> With that.

One way is north.

>> We do it just to mess with the the carpetbaggers to see if they want to stay.

But you stayed.

I stayed we're talking about the High Falls State Park.

If you've got more questions, keep sending them to Connections at wxxi.org.

I'm sure as we go throughout the process here, as we get closer to the opening, there will be a lot more conversations.

But before we we talk about how you can engage with an online survey and share more of your thoughts about what you want to see in terms of that timeline, it is starting to look more realistic that a year from now we'll see some some work happening and then a phased opening.

I, I hate to say this, but ideally I do.

You want to put some Guideposts in the ground and say this is where we want to do it.

Vinnie.

Carl.

>> Sure.

Yeah.

you know, we're in in envisioning the very first phases beginning in 2026. if you take a look at our framework plan on our website, we're starting at the south end of the park and working our way north again.

That's contingent on the availability of you know, the properties.

and we anticipate that, you know, completion of the entire park will happen sometime around 2032.

>> 2032.

But with different sections open at different times.

>> Correct, different sections coming online.

In those interim time times.

>> And the first one might open, say.

>>, I 2027, 2028 will be at some point there'll be some access.

>> Okay.

So now if you're watching on YouTube, you see the framework plan there and you see how you know, the river dissects it there and you've got different things happening in different places.

So as you see the different images they're all collected on our various platforms.

If you want to take a closer look there.

But Stephanie Hyde, if people want to share their still time for people to share what they want to see.

What do you want people to know about that?

>> There's always time.

I'd like to direct everyone to the website.

It's High Falls State Park news.com.

That's one word.

High Falls State Park news.com.

There's a survey up right now that asks the same questions we asked at the public launch event that we had this past Tuesday at the downtown MCC.

So we're just looking for what experiences people are most interested in early improvements and events they like to see at High Falls State Park.

any elements that interest them the most.

So that's there, as well as a section about frequently asked questions so people can get more acquainted with some of the common answers and questions that they have.

And then there's also a copy of the presentation that we used at the 1021 public launch event of the draft framework plan.

>> Well, I'm going to share one idea with you, and you tell me if this is a popular and this is from Charlie.

We've got a couple of charleses.

This is Charles on YouTube who says this looks fabulous.

I've been looking at that land for decades.

I can't wait for this.

A few more restaurants up top would be fabulous.

I can see spending hours and dollars down there.

That's from Charles.

>> Go, Charles.

>> Yeah.

So is that is that a popular sentiment?

>> Definitely.

I think time like people want to spend time at the park and figuring out what those activities look like.

There's kind of a balance between people wanting to be a part of like educational events.

So like learning about the ecological history, learning about, you know, the indigenous people's history about plants and animals, as well as some of the other like historical figures that we have, like Frederick Douglass and Susan B Anthony, but also balancing some of the program events and then also just keeping it nature.

So figuring out what people really want.

>> I mean, it's beautiful, super family friendly for sure, but some of the renderings that we've seen are some of the images that we've seen include all seasons, including some images that people on the bridge, you know, are on the walkways in the snow.

And how much can you plan, Carl, for a state park that is year round, knowing what it is like in January and February and, and trying to figure out what that what that means for a state park in those kind of months.

>> Sure.

you know, all of the program elements that you see in the framework plan may not be available in the winter months because, as you note, the conditions may preclude that, but we'll certainly focus on giving folks an opportunity to interact with the park and the gorge and the falls through the winter months as much as humanly possible.

>> Okay.

And I think you mentioned Vinnie, correct me if I'm wrong, that you don't want to over program it.

Is that part of the idea?

>> That's right.

Carl can speak better to it.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

That's been you know, aligned with a lot of the feedback that we've received.

People want to experience nature.

They want to experience an ecological restoration.

And that's really one of the guiding principles for our design of the park.

>> Because I think 18 months ago, there was talk of something very, very much sort of, natural to festivals, to big events there.

Is it likely that we will or won't see festivals, events, et cetera.?

>> It's difficult because we're limited by access.

Right.

egress from the gorge is particularly challenging.

So as much as we are limited by that, you know, there may be opportunities for events in the gorge.

>> But you also see more events up top, you know, in conjunction with the brewery, with the High Falls district, with the park that's at the upper level of the gorge.

So, you know, we keep referring to High Falls Terrace Park.

That's the section of land between the brewery and the falls that will become part of the state park, and more of an opportunity for events.

But we're not going to have, I think, large gatherings down in the gorge.

That's not the intent.

That's not what we're hearing from the community, in part because we have other large gathering places in downtown Rochester.

>> Yeah, a festival all the time.

That's right.

So by the way, before I grab Howie's call, we've had people calling in to tell me there are other rivers that flow north.

Someone is claiming that the Cuyahoga River flows north.

I'm from Cleveland.

Mark Johns called in to say that the Cuyahoga River flows.

>> I hope that's true.

Just because if you didn't know it, I'm gonna own you for it.

>> We we.

>> It is true.

Oh, we're fact checking.

It's true.

That's the river.

>> That caught on fire.

When?

When I was around.

>> The time.

>> Now you're shaming Cleveland.

>> I'm not shaming Cleveland.

I'm from Cleveland, I love Cleveland.

>> Gotta find a way for him to redeem himself.

That's exactly right.

>> And the river caught fire, like, 50 years ago.

>> So, you know, I wasn't even born yet.

>> Our river caught fire once, too.

>> So, yeah, it wasn't just Cuyahoga.

Stop it.

Brian.

>> Someone else says the Niagara River flows north.

Is that right?

>> That's right.

Yes, yes it does.

>> Okay.

All right.

Listen, I told you I was needed to be fact checked.

That's why you do it in real time.

Connections listeners are the best fact checkers.

I do appreciate that.

Howie and Rochester on the phone.

Hey, Howie.

Go ahead.

>> Hi.

I was so interested in listening to the timetable.

and I think a lot of people might say, oh, it's going to be till 2032, but I'll give you a tip.

You can watch the progress from right now through 2032 by going over to the brewery and enjoying the brew house.

because you get a close up view of what's happening there every day.

and ongoing, you'll be able to watch right from the brew house.

And I'm calling selfishly because I used to be an owner of the brewery, and I'm so excited for the energy that is coming from what's going on over there.

So that was my comment.

>> Well, I appreciate that, Howie.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate the disclosure as well.

>> I want to say thanks, too.

And I want to say, because Carl knows I'm the probably the most impatient person on the design team all good things take time.

And this is being designed for the long term.

This is being designed to be something that people in this community can enjoy literally for generations.

And we're going to try to do this right, not necessarily quickly, which can be frustrating, but will be well worth it.

>> Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that point.

And when you cover business and development, I think that that idea that things take time is a good one.

I think there were probably lessons that everyone learned when the Johnson administration really wanted a High Falls entertainment district.

And you know, I don't remember all the deal.

I think there were some pilot agreements or tax breaks to try to get more business here.

For a little bit, it seemed like it could work.

It didn't sustain I was surprised that, again, I'll keep saying I love this neighborhood.

I think it's one of the great places in Rochester, but maybe just taking your foot off the gas and saying, how?

How do we make sure that what happens is sustainable and organic?

is that do you learn lessons from past development efforts?

Even if they don't succeed?

Many.

>> Of course.

Yeah.

No, I lived that effort and it did work for a little while, but it wasn't sustainable because you don't want the crux of any commercial activity to be government support.

You know, we provide incentives for the private sector to be able to do things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.

And we've seen that pretty successfully now in lots of parts of our community and certainly downtown.

And that's really what rocked the Riverway is about.

You know, there's not a lot of private development projects in Rock, the Riverway, even the Constellation Attraction project, it wasn't huge incentives to that company.

It's a fortune 500 company.

It was more about the fact that we helped create an attractive location for them and their employees to come to, and that's why the state park is so exciting.

This will be transformational unto itself because it will take otherwise unused, contaminated property in a very unique feature, a very beautiful natural feature, and open it up to people and to the creativity of people who want to do other things up above the gorge.

>> I'll get back to your feedback.

This is the other Charles Charles from email who says, is there a plan in place to ensure Monroe County's ridiculous prohibition on rifle hunting has been repealed in time for the park's opening?

We do have the highest amount of deer being struck by cars in the state.

I feel as though I should do my part to reduce that number.

I think that's outside the scope of what the guests in the studio can answer.

Charles.

but I will say, knowing someone who's hit a deer twice, not me, a friend of mine who's hit a deer twice in the last six weeks.

There's a lot of deer out there.

I don't know that Monroe County is going to weigh in on that on this program right now.

I don't know.

Are deer a problem down in the park, Howard?

No, not really.

>> I don't know if they're a problem, but they're certainly there.

>> Yeah, they're certainly there.

>> And we're hoping to encourage them and other types of wildlife to come back to the park, to back to this part of the region that maybe they haven't been.

That's one of the intentional designs with restoring that ecology.

>> Yeah, I actually think that that's a a really interesting question here, because if you.

Overdevelop a site like this, you probably discourage some of that natural balance.

How do you find a balance, Carl?

>> Well, it's interesting because as the site slowly becomes more natural as it's remediated, when you look at it from the pontoon bridge, it looks like a park.

you see wildlife.

I've seen turkeys and deer and foxes and lots of birds.

And I think just by virtue of that ecological restoration and with parks taking that many steps further it's going to happen on its own.

>> Okay.

>> That's the intent.

>> so let me just by the way, Charles, I'll just say there's a lot of deer.

I'm with you there.

That's a whole other show.

but let me continue right on down the line here.

Mary says, how will we keep word of this awesome High Falls State Park from the presidential administration?

I don't, she says.

Trump and company.

I don't know that they would be.

I don't think the federal government, they've got their eyes on a lot of things.

I don't think that there would be any opposition unless I'm missing something.

Vinnie Esposito.

>> Well, I think the opportunity for federal partnership and funding is something we talked about for years.

And has certainly less at the moment than it had been.

Okay.

So I don't think there's going to be any opposition to creating a park, but I think it's a question of the level of partnership and support.

>> So it ebbs and flows depending on administrations.

I'm not trying to paint this as any normal period of American history.

I think we're in a very abnormal time.

That made your job harder.

>> Yes.

>> Do you want to elaborate?

No.

>> No, we're here to talk about the state park.

>> Okay.

Another day, another day.

Back to your emails here.

Paul says any plans for campgrounds on the site?

>> This the it's intended that the operating hours are going to be dawn to dusk, so.

No, no plans for camping at the site.

>> No plans for camping there.

Paul Kim wants to know what the capacity will be, because Kim thinks that weekends are going to be very busy at this state park.

Any idea how many people will sort of comfortably fit?

If it's a beautiful day and there's a lot of people there.

>> I don't think we've reached that level of detail yet, but it's certainly something that's on our mind.

Like I said before ingress and egress to the park are a challenge, and it's going to inform our programing of spaces so that it, you know, hopefully doesn't become uncomfortable.

>> Yeah, the park can hold thousands of people.

I mean, it's a big space, but it can't safely hold that many people to get in and out timely or safely.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

Well said.

And Kim, it's a good question.

But that's that's one that we'll, we'll cover.

And I'm sure Brian will cover and, and frankly, everyone here will want you to understand as we get closer to any kind of opening here.

So as we get kind of ready to wrap here every time we talk about this, we get a ton of feedback.

People are very clearly engaged here.

Stephanie, how do you make sure that they actually feel like their voice is going to be considered?

Not every idea is going to work.

but how do you make sure that people actually do get taken into account with their ideas here?

>> Like I said, surveys.

But we'll also be doing pop ups as well.

So having a go to them strategy of, getting feedback, and we'll always get feedback from emails as well.

Or you know, on the, on the street.

But having like a multi-pronged way of doing that.

But I would say right now there's never not an opportunity to give your feedback.

So give your feedback when you can.

>> And we're moving from from planning from the design here into like technical design.

So now that we've got something more tangible to show people, we're going to try to get out to more places.

So if anybody listening has an event or a community group or anything that they would like us to talk to, you know, we're open to that because we really do want to come hear from you.

And and the team has done an incredible job of responding to that input.

>> Carl, what's the biggest challenge of the site?

>> certainly the topography you know, creating a park in a gorge in a city is very challenging.

An urban park needs to have a porous perimeter.

We want people to be able to access it freely.

and I think that's one of the things, like I said before, we're most proud of and most excited about with this plan is we have nine gateways to the adjacent neighborhoods so people will be able to access the site.

like I said, that's that's really one of the hallmarks of a well-planned urban park, I think.

>> Are there analogs in other cities at all that are anything like this, or is this utterly unique?

>> I'm not sure.

Any examples exist of new urban parks in a gorge with a waterfall.

and.

>> 100 foot drop.

And the scale that you have here.

>> Yeah.

You know, fortunately we have experience with gorges at state parks.

Niagara Falls is probably the closest that we have.

and I think that we've gotten pretty creative with gorge access there.

And I think there's a lot of lessons learned that we can apply here.

>> Evan, I want to share a fun fact.

So everybody always calls it 100 foot waterfall.

In this process, I've learned it was lowered from 96ft to 80ft.

Today.

It was lowered 16ft in the early 20th century to reduce flooding in downtown Rochester.

>> To reduce flooding.

>> So it's not 100ft anymore, but people still call it that.

>> Around town.

It feels like it.

>> It's cool.

So I initially wrote the story as 80 foot, and then I saw somebody went in.

We were doing Instagram and said it was 96, 96.

I went and looked up.

I'm like, geez, I was wrong.

>> No, no, we.

>> Haven't.

>> Got to go.

change that.

>> You were saying you were right.

>> I was right initially.

And then I changed it to.

>> It's just a cool, fun fact.

It's one of the there's been a lot of them we've learned in this process.

>> I have a picture of that.

I think.

>> Yes, I put.

>> One on.

>> The riverway.

there was a.

>> Train that was hauling the because they I remember reading about this because they were blasting.

>> Yeah, they shot.

>> And then the businesses got upset because they were just shoving the rock over, and it was causing their buildings to, like, shake.

So they started taking it on a train back up.

And they had.

>> Some.

>> Of the.

>> Pictures from our discovery were incredible.

What's transpired at the falls and the gorge.

>> And that'll probably those elements will be included.

That's part of what the mayor was talking about, was how cool it will be to make it a place of learning and historical knowledge, not just sort of bulldozing it to the ground.

>> No, we expect to have a lot of interpretive elements related to the history of the site all the way back from long before it was Rochester.

>> Yeah, that's great.

Brian Sharp what questions remain unanswered for you about this?

>> I mean, I think the biggest one is, is the funding you know, that's that's the thing that kind of makes it go you know, the 8 million.

I think that takes it.

I'm assuming that takes it through the planning.

>> Through the technical design.

>> Technical design?

but yeah, then where the money is going to come from to to make this happen on the schedule that we're hoping it happens.

>> Can I add I hate to bring it up, but I'm shocked.

We've gone 54 minutes and you haven't brought it up.

Public safety always jumps to the front with this.

And I do want to address the fact that the plan includes a new parks, police station and presence as part of this park, because I know a lot of people who are, you know, worried about creating a new open space in downtown Rochester.

It's the first thing we hear from almost all our public engagement.

I just wanted to make that point.

I don't want to diminish the importance of funding.

That's what I spend a lot of time focusing on.

But I want I want to make sure people know that.

>> Yeah, no, I appreciate that point.

And that issue comes up.

Vinny is saying quite a bit, huh?

>> Yeah.

in terms of other things we heard about encouraging like solitude and like hiking and biking, but sharing diverse stories from the past and present.

As we said the ecological history and also accessibility with universal design principles.

People want to be able to have everybody be able to access the park and use it well.

>> We covered a lot of ground here, and I do appreciate the idea that, you know, you learn from the past.

You try to make sure that something happens in a sustainable way.

So is there anything in your mind, Vincent Esposito, that that would make us be sitting here in 2 or 3 years and go, boy, we just didn't get it over the line or something?

Was there as a roadblock.

Anything that worries, you.

>> Know, the funding is the only thing that worries me because until you have it secured, you don't have it secured.

but we're going to build a beautiful park.

These guys are designing an incredible space for this community, where our job is to get the funding to make it happen.

And then the things that I think more about are long term, how we handle the development and opportunities around that.

How do we ensure there are things for people to do when Charles wants to come here and spend hours, and how do we make sure that it doesn't become exclusive and not including the neighborhoods that are nearby?

Those are the things that I think we need to think longer term about.

Beyond the design of the park.

>> But you got time.

Realistically.

>> We're working on it right now.

>> That's why we're having this conversation.

And I'll close with with you, Carl here.

I mean, you you do a lot of work in a lot of different places, but is there I don't want to say pressure and added emphasis to feel like you.

It's important to get this right for the community.

>> Absolutely.

Like I said before, this is really a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I can't think of anything else like this that exists, and we have to get it right and we are going to get it right.

This park means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

And I think once we, achieve that completion, I think it has the power to change lives.

>> Well, Stephanie Hyde, where can people go again one more time?

They want to offer feedback.

>> High Falls State Park NY.

Com all one word.

>> High Falls State Park NY.

Com is the website Stephanie Hyde and engagement planner at Highland Planning.

Come back and tell us how it's going.

Stay in touch with us.

Thanks for being here this hour.

Thank you.

Carl Flora, Architect and Project Manager for the High Falls State Park.

Thank you for sharing your expertise.

I know we're going to talk again here.

Thanks for being here, Vinny Esposito, Senior vice president for regional economic development at Empire State Development.

Keep us abreast of this.

There's obviously, as you know, a ton of community interest here.

>> Thank you.

Yeah.

>> Thank you.

And Brian Sharp great work as always.

Business and development reporter and investigations enterprise editor for WXXI News.

Take the weekend off.

>> I plan to.

>> You do.?

>> No, really, I.

>> Have to.

Nobody does.

Not if you're a journalist.

Sorry.

from all of us at Connections.

Thank you for watching.

If you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe if you're there.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for finding us on whatever platform we are on, and we will have a great weekend and we'll talk to you Monday on member supported public media.

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