- Well, welcome to the Architecture for Health Friday lecture series.

It's great to have you with us, those here in the studio audience and those who are joining us online.

We've got a great program for you today with a great variety.

We have three young ladies with us today, with one thing in common, and lots of things that make each one very distinct and special.

What they have in common is The Tradewell Fellowship, which they're gonna tell you all about in their remarks.

And interestingly enough, all three of them are former Tradewell Fellows.

That makes this a special gathering.

The Tradewell is offered by Page Architects, and they're gonna give you the background on that program.

Three schools represented, and I'll tell you about those as we go through this.

And in fact, they represent three offices in Page across Texas.

Renee Fiala is with us today.

She's a Senior Medical Planner, and particularly interested in evidence-based design.

We probably ought to have a hand raise as we go around so that everybody knows who you are.

And she was recently honored by Healthcare Design Magazine as one of Healthcare Design Magazine's Rising Stars.

She is the National Coordinator for The Tradewell Fellowship, so if you have questions about the program, she's the one to ask.

She's also the only one among the three who went to A&M.

There you go.

So welcome back.

We also have Jackie Guerra Armenta.

And Jackie is over on this side.

Jackie, I had the pleasure of knowing as a student when I was on faculty at Texas Tech.

Wonderful to see you again.

There's the gun, guns up.

And also joining, well, and her particular interest is mental and behavioral health and she worked with two of my heroes in the evidence-based design world, studying the work of Mardelle Shepley and Roger Ulrich.

They did some great work in that field.

As many of you already know, Dani Kolker is with us.

She's also a medical planner, as is Jackie.

And Dani is from Kansas.

So we have Kansas, Texas Tech, and A&M on the stage today.

All three Tradewell Fellows.

Renee is out of Houston, and Jackie is out of Dallas, and Dani is out of Austin.

So we've got a lot of perspectives here today and some great material coming your way.

So with no further ado, please help me welcome them to the studio.

(audience applauding) And the stage is yours.

- Thank you so much, Ray.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Always great to come back to the students, to the professors, and to Aggieland, I'm so happy to share it with my colleagues.

So first I just want to talk about just, you know, the learning objectives for today.

Really we're talking about The Tradewell Fellowship, but I think there's a lot of other nuggets for anyone.

And so we're gonna talk about how to advance in professional development.

We're gonna talk about research and the impact that it has on design.

We're gonna talk about also medical planning for a project that the Tradewells have worked on Central State Hospital.

With that, I just wanted to share a little bit about Page.

So we are a firm representing about 1200 people, and across 16 offices.

And we've done work in over 50 countries, so really getting a global presence.

But on the next slide you'll see the work we've done in the US.

Our projects really span coast to coast.

And likewise our offices span those same locations.

So really being able to serve our clients in the areas that they are.

And here you have representing, as Ray mentioned, that the Texas region, Dallas, Houston, and Austin.

In terms of what we provide, we do a whole range of services from architecture to engineering.

We also have some great consulting practices, including graphics and wayfinding and sustainability.

And in terms of architecture and the different sectors that we cover on the next slide, we're of course representing our healthcare practice, but we have many different sectors.

And what's really wonderful is the overlap between the sectors.

And I think some of our richest projects come when we're collaborating amongst the sectors, and really bumping elbows with different ideas, and those are really some of the most incredible projects.

In terms of our services, again, from healthcare, we do almost everything from master planning, to pediatrics, to behavioral health.

So just sharing a little bit about us, but now really looking at The Tradewell Fellowship.

And so summarizing in as much as we can make one sentence about The Tradewell Fellowship, it's really about giving this fast track exposure to those that are entering the workforce or that are somewhat new to healthcare design, giving them exposure to healthcare design on an accelerated track.

So history, actually, our very own Kirk Hamilton founded The Tradewell Fellowship back in 1997.

And we are entering our 26th year.

But the fellowship was named for Gary Brent Tradewell, who was a senior medical planner in the firm.

And he really just interacted with his clients in a way that they were heard, and the designs were just really impactful from the medical planning side.

And so as a way to honor him, The Tradewell Fellowship was created, and it was really an opportunity for those, as I mentioned, entering the workforce to get that high-end exposure to working with clients, as well as developing a research project.

The Fellowship is the most established fellowship of today, and we're up to, now, we're gonna be welcoming our 30th Tradewell this summer.

And Ruben Zarate is going to be joining us at the end of his year.

We're so excited to have him.

And so 30 people as part of the Fellowship, I think, the reach it has just spanned the decades really.

If you go back just one.

In terms of where the Tradewells have come from, it's really, you know, as you can see from this map, a very diverse group.

Not unlike the stage, you know, representing different universities, but also different countries.

And that's also I think, a real richness to the program.

A little bit about the legacy, it's really fun to follow Tradewell Fellows through their career.

These are people that are passionate about healthcare design, they're pushing the envelope, and they're really reaching far places.

And so, you know, two of them were named the U40 recipients.

They're now medical planners and designers in the field, and some have even moved to major health systems and moved to the client side of things, but largely most of them are practicing still healthcare and a lot of them are still at Page as well.

And then just looking at within Page and where these fellows have gone, I think it's really interesting to highlight these three individuals who have really become the leaders of healthcare at Page.

And so Akshay Sangolli, who is a fellow Aggie, he is now leading our Denver office.

Mark Vaughan is leading our medical planning for the firm.

And most recently, Tushar Gupta is now the healthcare sector leader of Page.

And so really, these are advocates that we have for us, you know, at all places, but it just shows that the foundation they had has really set them up for success.

In terms of benefits for what the Fellowship offers, I've highlighted some of this already, but it's really focused on front end healthcare design and we push the Tradewells to go meet with our clients.

Actually, my first day of work I was getting on an airplane and flying to New Jersey for a kickoff meeting on a project.

And that's just a taste of what the Fellowship offers, but it's really putting them at the forefront of those meetings and hearing the conversations firsthand.

It provides, of course, accelerated mentorship, and really as many opportunities as we can give them to grow during their year.

That's really the goal.

And everyone makes a bit different.

You know, it's what you do with those opportunities that really become, you know, your future.

So another benefit of the fellowship is the ability to identify your own research topic that you get to study during the course of the year.

And so during the beginning of the fellowship, we spend time refining a topic, and really coming up with, you know, what are you passionate about, what are you interested in healthcare, and what could be of benefit to the industry?

And then from there, spend time on the research, connecting with people both inside and outside the firm that are knowledgeable in that area, and then coming to refine the project, and finally the most important part, sharing it back with the firm as well as the industry.

And then the other thing is to attend a national conference.

You can pick a conference of your choice that has something to do with healthcare.

It can range from healthcare design, to something like Society for Critical Care Medicine where it's more focused on a specific field, but really just getting you out there to see what else is going on, what are people pushing the boundaries on, and giving you, you know, chance to meet other people as well in the industry.

Okay, and then a typical year in the Fellowship, 50% of your time is spent working on healthcare design projects.

And these are in the early stages of design, the programming, the master planning, schematic and design development.

And this exposure just to that early stage, you're working with the senior medical planners and designers, going to the client meetings.

The other 50% of your time is on supplementary and opportunity areas.

And so that includes the Tradewell Project, that includes some of the firm initiatives that we have going on, like researching our past projects, as well as attending firm events, and of course going to your conference of choice.

Supported by, of course, we have a whole team behind you as you're the fellow, but we have someone looking at it from a national perspective.

I serve as the lead curator.

We also have local curators based on which office you're located in, who meet with you on a weekly basis to make sure that you are developing your project and getting the mentorship that you need.

And of course everyone at Page is available as a resource, but we also have advisors outside of the firm as well.

So it's supported again by, we have weekly and biweekly meetings with the fellows, and we talk about their Tradewell Project as well as what they're working on, and just time to just talk about where they are in their career, and where they wanna go, and communicating with them.

And other opportunities we may see for them to grow as well.

So some past Tradewell Project examples, I just wanted to show this long list, but really just to show the diversity of project types.

We have everything from looking at emergency departments, to intensive care, to most recently an interest in behavioral health, which we'll see here later.

And just some final examples of what these projects look like.

These are not just research papers, but it can take any form, and it really is based on the fellow and what they're interested in producing.

So we've had anything from matrixes, to interactive dashboards, to things that are more design-oriented, to more of a research summary.

And so they take all different forms, and it's really up to that fellow to help form what that final form will take.

And with that, I will hand it to Dani.

- Thanks.

That was the perfect overview of The Tradewell Fellowship.

And then next, Jackie and I are gonna talk a little bit about our Tradewell experience and our Tradewell Projects.

And then we're gonna share with you guys a project that we got to work on that applied our Tradewell research.

And so really The Tradewell Fellowship revolves around the concept of evidence-based design, which is next slide, which is basing design decisions on credible research to achieve the best possible outcomes.

And so with that, really one of the best parts of The Tradewell Fellowship is being able to add to the research that is out there and contribute to creating a better healthcare environment.

And so at the start of my fellowship when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to spend my year researching, it was clear to me that evidence on mental and behavioral health was extremely limited.

And so myself as well as Jackie and others in the firm have all chosen to do some research within the field of mental and behavioral health design because of that.

And so I had come across this term neuroarchitecture, and I wasn't really sure what that meant, but I had come across two quotes, if you go to the next slide, that really stood out to me and kind of showed me the importance that the built environment has on our health and our lives.

And so I decided to dig a little deeper into what neuroarchitecture really meant and see what I can find.

And so at the end of my Tradewell year, what I found is that neuroarchitecture resides at this intersection of psychology, neuroscience, and architecture.

And it offers a lot of opportunities, not just for architects, but also for neuroscientists, because knowing about how people experience different aspects of space can really help us design buildings better suited for people's different needs.

And so that can have a lot of positive impacts, like improved healing, wellbeing, and social interactions.

And so this topic is something that you could probably spend a lifetime researching, but Renee, along with my local curator, did a great job at the beginning, really helping me figure out what I could accomplish within one year.

And so that is how I narrowed it down to these main project goals.

And so that was to really examine the concept of neuroarchitecture and understand what it meant.

And then also along with that, gain a deeper understanding of mental and behavioral health design, and then figure out how neuroscience can be applied to the design process.

Then incorporate the research that I found into creating some best practices, and then overall just enhanced creativity and innovation within the practice and within our firm.

And so at the end of my Tradewell Fellowship year, I was able to create this checklist and matrix for us to use as a firm to kind of apply the principles that I learned throughout my Tradewell year to all different phases of projects.

And so some of the big takeaways that I found were that in mental and behavioral health design should create a deinstitutionalized and home-like environment, should support staff safety, it should support patient safety, it should support patient autonomy and control.

And so this checklist is something that we can use to really check ourselves and make sure that this is being incorporated throughout the project.

And this is a working document that is passed around the firm and anybody can add to it, change it as they see fit.

So it has been really cool to see it evolve.

You wanna tell us a little bit about your project?

- So like Dani, I was also interested in, I was introduced to evidence-based design, specifically more in my Masters of Architecture by Dr. Ray Pentecost.

And he actually shared a quote that really stuck with me for a long time.

And it's, "Most architects do not think of themselves "as healthcare professionals, "but they should because they are."

And that's by Richard Jackson.

And from there this, you know, I was just inspired to really look into healthcare architecture, and in that class also looking at neuroscience and architecture, so I got this in this just interest for cognitive neuroscience and learning how we feel and respond to different spaces.

So that's what got me into behavioral health, which I had no idea what it was, and I had a lot to learn.

And after a lot of reading, I actually went to Dr. Kirk Hamilton for some direction because I was all over the place, and ended up with a literature review of Mardelle and Roger Ulrich.

And I called it Design Features, General Design Considerations and Exposure to Behavioral Health.

You know, short little title.

So first off, Mardelle McCuskey Shepley and Samira Pasha did a very rigorous literature review of all the behavioral health, and they published a book called Design for Mental and Behavioral Health, and pointed out 11 environmental psychology issues.

And those are the ones that you see here.

And they look at each individual of these and go into more detail, and describe them in different settings.

So for example, one is personal space and density, and this includes the very intimate bedroom space, as well as the very large activity spaces.

Second was Roger Ulrich, Leonard Bogran, and Stefan London.

They did a comparison of three hospitals, and they were able to document by seeing how much of the chemical and physical restraint use they were using.

And that's how they came up with the stress-reducing bundle, of which is these nine that you see here.

Number nine is actually other, because like Mardelle's and Roger Ulrich's, these are not comprehensive.

We continue to add, and as we, as Dani mentioned, literature in behavioral health is sort of limited, but it has advanced.

And so just to look into these a little bit deeper, we want nature art, no abstract art, that comes in with the images, the colors that we choose, the sizes that we choose.

And when it works, I will.

So we wanna stay away from abstract patterns and high contrast images.

So yes, and that one, no.

We also wanna stay away from things that look too realistic and can be very confusing for someone, and might want them to, you know, walk in or reach in for something that's not really there.

We wanna stay away from strong colors such as red, dark gray, black, they're known to trigger a trauma response or stress.

And of course the 1950s' institutional green, which was, I learned this kind of recently, was started for surgeons to be able to adjust their eyes from the blood red.

So we don't need that in behavioral health settings.

So stick to colors from nature, warm pastels, such as blue, green, purple.

And all in all, no feature is better than a multifaceted intervention.

And with all that information we've found, it really helps us guide our discussion with the client and really look at how we're gonna implement each individual of these in our project.

So being able to work on this project really opened the doors for me to go into a project that's called Central State Hospital.

It's a behavioral health project in Petersburg, Virginia.

It's about 460,000 square feet with 300 beds.

And, well, in addition to that, I think it's really important that to mention that The Tradewell Fellowship really exposed me to all these resources, and it really does take also a little bit of view to reach out and really push the boundaries of what you want.

So it's not just for the Tradewell Fellow, but it's also for every individual who joins us that you need to know that if you ask for something, it's very, it will probably try to make the most of it and get you what you want, so.

- [Renee] There will doors that are open.

- Yes.

- Similarly, since she had worked on this project, then everyone knew she was interested in behavioral health, and lo and behold, this project comes on.

And so I think you joined from the very beginning and got to see the whole project actually through CDs, right?

- Yes.

So yeah, and it started in 2019, and up to this day I've been working on it.

We're still working on it.

- This was the first project when I joined the firm, this was the first project that I got to work on because I had mentioned that I had an interest in mental and behavioral health, and so everybody in the Tradewell family made sure that I got the exposure that I needed and got what I wanted.

And so it was, I got also got to work on the end of this project as well.

- So we're gonna go through a little bit of Central State, and just kind of go through what it's been, this journey.

So here you see an image of we're all sitting on the table, shredding, throwing out ideas.

And the people who you see here are of different experience levels, different ages, and we're all just put in one place, and our goal is to make this the best behavioral facility there's been.

So here's a little image of all the different sketches that we want to, just different ideas so that we can visualize our options.

And here we're getting a little bit closer to our design, and a lot of it is driven by the programmatic spaces that we need.

And if you see, it's very spread out.

It's not like the typical hospital that you might see.

And it's all because we really wanted to push for a one floor building.

So Central State is actually two hospitals in one.

Hospital A, which is the four that you see above is civil forensic, and Hospital B is maximum security.

But they wanted to share both for efficiency and have one main entrance.

And of course we started wanting to meet our goals.

And so access to the outdoors, natural light and views, and using architecture as protection, that meaning using it more as part of all the activities and not making it, staying away from the institutional piece of it.

And of course, visibility is key.

It's one of the most important pieces of the project.

We really wanted to keep corners or sharp edges away.

So we stuck to soft corners, lots of angles, which also really dictates our form.

And this is what it ended up being on the site.

So you can see our site is actually very large.

It's surrounded by a beautiful forest.

So we really wanted to take advantage of all those views, and that's the reason why you see all the living spaces towards the back focused on that, and more of the staff and loading dock, and all the maintenance pieces are more in the front, even though you also don't want that being as visible.

But we found a way to make it work.

Another really important piece here was the destigmatization of mental and behavioral health, which brings in the community.

So we have courtyards and outdoor spaces for the community, and then we also have courtyards and areas for the staff for their own mental health, and a lot of different activity spaces for either active or more passive areas for the patients, as well as private secure outdoor spaces where they can, they have the choice of going outside when they want to and not need any escort, or someone to tell them where they can go.

So because there is a civil side and a maximum security side, the civil side actually has the ability to walk the grounds.

So we gave them a path around the whole hospital that they can use so that they can do a walk, and you know, have that choice as well.

This is one of the images that shows the activity space of one of those, you know, they have a basketball court.

And so you'll see different items here that, so this one's for the civil side, and we could talk a little bit more about those differences from what's appropriate for civil and what's appropriate for maximum security.

But if we look at the program department, so that red line you see is the fire barrier between those two hospitals.

So civil forensic, maximum security, we want one entrance.

You have the administration, and then you have the facility management also there.

One entrance for admissions for both hospitals.

One clinic that they share.

And then of course you have the living units, which is their home.

The program communities as their neighborhood, and the treatment mall, what we know as downtown.

And those corridors that connect everything together.

Level two is the continuation of administration, of pharmacy, and this is also very unique to this hospital, we have the mechanical maintenance as a restricted area.

And this allows them to access mechanical without having to go into the private treatment areas.

So no tools left behind.

They're able to work on things and nobody knows.

This is an image of the treatment mall, which kind of gives you that view of the angles that we use, all from one observation point.

So really trying to stay away from any hidden corners.

This is the main courts of the treatment mall.

We have different activity spaces for them.

So there's a barber, there's a market cafe, the dining room, a lot of choice and control in their seating.

Here's a patient dining, so it's a one-way flow for patients.

They grab their food and they have the option to eat inside or eat outside and do what they want with how they wanna pass their time.

A sensory room.

This one gives them a lot of choices about on lighting, seating, and interactive display.

And here's our living unit.

This one's also very near and dear to our DC office.

They call it the snowflake.

And the form is driven by those main observation points.

The angles are done so that they don't have to do a 360 look completely for the beds.

They really wanna keep them within that one focal point where you can see without having to turn your head.

The person who is sitting there, their job is to always be on the lookout for just what's going on, not to actually talk to the patient, although they are there.

Oh, and I go back, so this is one unit with two living areas.

So back to back is the staff support.

And we did that for efficiency, and an offstage feel.

We also had the opportunity to use a lot of wayfinding and give it that personal touch of their home.

This is an image showing that observation station.

Fun fact here is we actually did a lot of studying on the nurse station, different reaches and heights of people, and making sure that they can't reach over as easily or jump over the desk.

But our main goal was to really get rid of the fishbowl, and not, but still give them a sense of security and then the patient give them a sense of, you know, I can reach out and talk to this person, and you know, we're here.

This is another area.

Here we see the different types of day room spaces, which is actually required by FGI.

So you have the quiet spaces, the noisy spaces.

And then not just on the inside but also the outside, we've looked at the different warm materials and textures.

And here is our front entrance.

This is what you see when you walk into our building.

Really working on the de-stigmatization.

Don't want it to look like an institution or a hospital, wanting to bring everyone in and feel welcome to learn about mental and behavioral health.

And we actually have a history wall that talks about the history of Central State and also psychiatric facilities, and how they've, what they were and what they are now.

Here's our front face.

- Great, thank you Jackie.

Great project.

So I just wanna wrap up a little bit with the application process and just some more thoughts on the Fellowship.

So in terms of the application, if you go to the next slide, to be eligible for The Tradewell Fellowship, you need to be able to work in the US for 12 months, and have a professional degree in architecture.

And then in terms of what's required to apply, your resume, your portfolio, a personal essay about why you're interested in the Fellowship, and really your opportunity to express what it would be as benefit to you, and you know, why you're interested in healthcare design, as well as three reference letters.

And typically the Fellowship lasts from June to June, but there's some flexibility in the start dates.

And Tradewell Fellows are sometimes recent graduates, but they're also sometimes have worked for a couple of years and then decided that they're either newly interested in healthcare, or they just want that greater exposure to it, and they can apply for it as well after, you know, they've been working for a few years.

So just more information about the Fellowship, we have a website, we have social media where the fellows try to post about, you know, what they're up to so you can kind of see a day in the life of the Fellowship.

And there's some quotes on the website from, these are our two current Tradewell Fellows, and just what the Fellowship meant to them and the opportunity that it presented to them.

And so I just wanna wrap up with some key characteristics of the Fellowship.

You know, there may be people out there saying, well I didn't apply to it, or you know, I still want those same opportunities.

And so I just wanted to follow with, what are the characteristics of these Tradewell Fellows, and you know, how can you be looking to get similar experiences in other places, or wherever you are in your career, you know, what's gonna help you accelerate on your career path as a healthcare designer.

And so these people are really self-starters, you know, they're the ones going out and asking questions.

They're not sitting at their desk waiting for something to happen.

They're seeking their own opportunities, they're innovating, you know, they're not just looking to do things the same way that it's been done a million times, but challenging, well why was it done this way and can we do it better?

There's, you know, that passion inside of them.

So these people, in order to be that kind of self-starter, they usually have a passion inside of them that's driving these things.

And so finding your passion will really help take you far.

And of course communication, we need to communicate with each other, but also with our clients.

And so it's just really important that you're able to express yourself and that they a way that they can receive it.

Of course, a strong foundation in design, like a great school like Texas A&M, providing that foundation for you to be able to carry through your career.

And of course playing, you know, team player.

We never do projects by ourself.

Even the smallest of projects, you're still in a team, because you either have a client you're working for, or you have consultants that are helping.

And so always being able to collaborate from the smallest of teams to the largest of teams is very important.

And, you know, a tendency to go above and beyond.

I think that's something that other people will notice, and it will help just accelerate your career as well.

But when someone gives you a task, you just do the task, or do you think about, well what's after this?

You know, before I go to them, let me come up with some questions about, you know, what I should be thinking next.

And so that you're really pushing yourself, and someone's not just telling you what to do.

So with that, we wanna thank you for this time and open it up for questions.

(audience applauding) - Who has a question from our audience?

Please.

You need to come forward so we can all hear it, please.

- Well, thank you for the wonderful presentation.

I just had a quick question on the design of the project.

You separated it into, I guess, non-maximum security and maximum security, and design very much shows that it allows for a different proportion of spaces, as well as autonomy for the residents there.

Could you talk a little more about the maximum security side and how they can still have autonomy even though they are more restricted?

- Yes, so actually surprisingly, they are very similar in what they really can have.

But there are smaller things, like they can't have trees in their activity courtyards, they can't have certain plants that they can, you know, dig out.

So it's not as different.

The units are also a little bit smaller because it's more manageable for the staff and just for security reasons just in case.

But in a way, there's actually a lot of similarities between the civil and the forensic, just because of how we're doing behavioral health, and all the requirements from FGI.

And so actually FGI does ask for private bathrooms at each bedroom, although we actually pushed for bathrooms outside of the bedroom, which is actually something that kind of goes against what Roger and Mardelle had published.

But I think it's just a different push between what the hospital is comfortable with, as well as just the resources they have, and the different populations.

So there's actually a lot of different populations in behavioral health, and I think that really dictates what you do with the design.

I'm trying to think of other differences between maximum security, but it's mostly that it's smaller groups, there's more visibility in their spaces, there might be, they don't have a living skills class, and that's really when they're trying to teach 'em to go back out in the world.

And I think the, actually the activities that they give them in the treatment mall are really quite wonderful.

I think it really pushes for them to, it actually seems like a place where you're gonna get better and it gives them hope, which is what our client was really wanting to use as their vision.

And it's, you know, they wanted to create a place where they can see past their, what they're stuck on at that moment.

- Other questions please?

- Hi, I'm Hao Huang.

It's a wonderful presentation, I really enjoy it.

And I have a question for the project that Jackie mentioned, and I'm curious about the snowflake shape thing, and why you made this snowflake shape and is it common in the practice, and why they are this, how you decide the number of wings you have, and how many patients live in one wing?

Is it because staff ratio or something else?

- Yeah, so part of it is research and then part of it is staff ratio.

So we have got in projects where they're like, they just don't have the staff, and they do go higher than what research really wants it to go.

So for Central State we have approximately, each wing is between eight to 10 beds each.

Actually at the maximum it could be six to eight beds per wing.

And there's three wings for every unit.

And that really was because of the efficiency, as well as, you know, that one observation point.

There's also some projects where it's a tower, so it just changes the shape.

But the snowflake came from our DC office, and they started with St. Elizabeth Hospital, which began that snowflake look.

And then Fulton was the project where they actually combined two in one for the staff support back to back.

And then Central State has been another development of that and trying to decrease the square footage, and making it more efficient.

So I think every unit has, well there's a variation, just the units are not all the same, which actually made the project even harder, because nothing is repeated.

Thousands of rooms and they're all different.

So it ranges from units from 22 people to 28.

Maximum side from about 15 to 22.

- You said something about the sight line, right?

Like the three hallways instead of having four, was more the vision from the-- - Yeah, well the idea is that you'll be able to view the hallways without having to turn your head.

It's 'cause we did study, you know, well what if we have it more like a T or the X?

But it requires a lot more from the person trying to view everyone.

- Another question.

I have one yes, from online.

- Hello, I have a question from our Zoom audience.

This is from JKB.

And he asks why each of you chose healthcare design and planning for your niche area of work?

Was it something that you fell into through the Fellowship or something that you knew you wanted to be involved in from university or even before university?

- I can kick us off.

I kind of have a funny story with this.

So I went to the University of Kansas, and I actually took my first healthcare class there and it was evidence-based design of mental and behavioral health facilities.

And don't tell my professor this, but I took the class to prove to myself that I did not want to do healthcare.

That I thought it was gonna be way too complex, and that I wouldn't like it, and I just needed to take the class to prove that to myself.

And clearly it did the exact opposite.

And so from that point on, I kind of had this drive and passion, and I knew that that was what I wanted to do.

And so like Renee said, that drive in me is how I got involved in The Tradewell Fellowship, and this has been the perfect path to get me to where I wanna go, and kind of see the path for my future.

So if you would've asked me five years ago, or if you would've told me five years ago that I would be a medical planner, I would've said, no way.

What is that?

But so it kind of happened just by chance, but it all worked out and it is the perfect field.

- So I have a very similar story.

I was deciding on my fourth year studio, which professor to take, and I somehow missed the early registration and there were only a couple of professors left.

And our very own George Mann's class was available.

And I had heard stories about that class, and at first thought it was not my choice, but then I started thinking more about healthcare design and okay, well what would I really be doing in his class?

And then I started thinking about, okay, if I am working in healthcare design, then you know, I had a terrible experience in hospital, and just that feeling of sterile, and you know, maybe I need to help make that better.

And from there it has just been phenomenal.

So thank you George.

- So I already kind of spoke about that with the quote that Dr. Ray Pentecost shared with me, but actually recently I gave it a little bit more thought and I was able to dig in and notice that it kind of rose from when my father passed to a better life.

And seeing how we were having to cope with everything made me realize that we all go through some difficult times in our life at some point.

And in architecture and healthcare architecture specifically, we have the opportunity to design specifically for that.

And that's how it, I guess somehow it tied in with everything, and I was wrapped in.

- Other questions here in the studio?

What, as you look back in your preparation for becoming a Tradewell Fellow, what did you study in school or what were you exposed to that became one of your most valued skills?

- I think Renee touched on this a little earlier, but that class I took at KU, I did not take until my second to last year of school.

And so when I was applying for the Fellowship, I knew that I maybe lacked some experience that others had.

And so I really advocated for myself, in my final year of school, and reached out to my professors and to those around me and told them, "This is what I wanna do, can you help me get there?"

And so I think that is what helped me get to where I am, is that drive in advocating for yourself and asking for things that you want.

- So for me, I think taking Kirk Hamilton's typologies class, I actually remember him going, you know, through, he went through all of the departments of a hospital.

So before that I felt like I had no idea what healthcare was and it was just really daunting, big box of spaces.

And I think that class really broke it down for me in a way that seemed manageable, but I just remember sometimes in his class, almost needing to like lean over and like turning green, because I was just thinking about the procedures happening in those spaces, and it was making me, you know, I knew I couldn't be a doctor for those reasons.

But still being able to touch the healthcare spaces, I think like the quote that Jackie gave, I think that was just the foundation that really, once I started to get to the workplace, I felt like, okay, I know a little bit about a lot of things, and it just served as that foundation to go from there.

- For me, it's, I really didn't know about the Fellowship before I applied, and I really didn't know anything about healthcare architecture, and, well, a little bit more about healthcare architecture because I was taking the certificate at school.

But I remember again, Dr. Pentecost asking, are you sure you wanna apply?

It's medical planning, do you know what medical planning is?

I was like, well, what is it?

And I found it because of evidence-based design, me leaning towards a lot of, I mean I was fascinated by the data and the facts, and how we apply this to this.

And it just made so much sense.

It wasn't just this random, you know, just concept that we came up with, and okay, I want plans, plans.

It was, oh, the research has this, and this, and this, and now it's this.

And it just, that to me was the most intriguing.

And I think once I saw myself in that, I was, I think what I have is, if I set myself onto something, I really don't let go until I accomplish it or like prove to myself that maybe that's not the route.

- Well said.

This was fun y'all.

Thanks for coming.

Great presentations, great comments, and great answers to the questions.

Thanks to all of you for being here, and we hope you'll join us again next time for the Architecture for Health lecture series.

One more time, thanks to our guests.

(audience applauding) (upbeat music)