By the year 2030, one in five Americans will be of retirement age.

Beers Mallers - elder law attorneys counsel individuals regarding matters of setting up estates, trusts and help navigate difficult family situations.

Beers Mallers, attorneys at law with offices in Fort Wayne, LaGrange, and on the web at BeersMallers.com.

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>> I'm glad you're watching tonight our show is like the hand and we call it like the head because what we try to do on this show is to provide you with information and education on a lot of different topics so that you're maybe more informed when you have to make choices for your LIFE Ahead.

I'm Sandy Thomson, the host but the real stars of the show are sitting with me here in the studio and let me introduce them to you.

>> Obviously if you watch very often you know Heidi Adare hi, Heidi.

>> Hi, Sandy .

Nice to have you back with us.

Heidi is an elder law attorney if you recall that and she's brought another attorney with us and Danielle, your first time on LIFE Ahead.

>> Yes, ma'am, but you're going to love it by the end of the show she's going to say I want to be on every week it's Danielle Swann and Danielle is also an attorney is no lawyer.

>> Yes.

Yes it is.

OK, so you're learning a lot from Heidi and some others.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, our topic tonight is the state planning for every stage of life.

>> Now I do want you to remember that this is really your show we're sitting here but it's really your show.

>> So I welcome you to give us a call here at (969) 27 twenty anytime in the next half hour and we'll get you some complimentary legal advice right here and that number will be popping up here frequently during the next half hour.

>> OK, let's start Heidi with you.

>> This is a question I'm sure you've heard I have no money.

>> Do I have to have a will I say it's a good idea to have will even if you don't have anything that you feel like is money, you have personal possessions, things tangible personal property that that you should give the get the chance to say who gets those things and it also gives you a chance to say who is going to be the person to just wrap up things for you.

I mean even if you don't have significant assets just to make sure that your apartment gets cleaned out or your car gets sold, it's important to have those things identified and in place.

>> OK, this is there so much there's just an overwhelming amount of things to do to take care of an estate.

>> Danielle Power of attorney we talk about that all the time.

>> What is it and why do I need to have one or do I?

You definitely do of course.

So Power of Attorney is a document that you're signing to put someone in place to help you in a situation where you can't handle your own finances or your own medical decisions so you can appoint the same person for both of those things or you could appoint different people but it's in effect while you're still living.

But when you aren't able to do those things for yourself and it basically just allows the person that you select to step into your shoes and do anything that needs done for you that you can't do for yourself during that time.

>> Well, we've often talk about talk about illnesses here on the show.

We've done a lot of shows on dementia and Alzheimer's.

>> If one has dementia, Heidi, how can you make sure that everything is taken care of them financially?

Let's say they've selected somebody as a power of attorney.

Can that person go ahead and and pay their bills, write the checks, things like that?

>> Yeah.

I mean normally you have to provide the power of attorney document to whatever financial institution you're dealing with and then that enables you to be able to act just like the person could.

>> So you go to the bank, take that person with you that it's going to take care of that financially.

>> I mean you could do it ahead of time or if once your person is incapacitated the person who's going to be the attorney in fact takes the power of attorney document presents it to the bank, the bank will send it through their legal department.

They'll review it and then they'll say yeah, you're cleared.

You can write checks and do whatever needs to happen.

>> So there's always a solution there always a solutions.

And the reason we hammer on powers of attorney so much is that the alternative to that if you don't have a power of attorney in place and you do lose capacity is you've got to go to somebody has to go to court to become your guardian and Danielle's becoming an expert at that.

Oh, she's had to really you know, difficult challenging guardianships that she's had to fight her way through over the last few months.

>> Well, it's about that well, what's the process?

I mean if somebody passes away and they don't well, it's not the power of attorney.

They're not passed away.

They're alive.

They're alive.

They're incapacitated and don't have a power of attorney in place.

>> So they have to get a guardian.

Yeah.

So the family comes and says hey, we need to be able to make decisions for mom or dad and we don't have a power of attorney and now that they don't have capacity we can we can't have them sign that power of attorney anymore.

>> So we have to have them go back to their parents physician and ask that physician to sign a statement saying that they cannot handle their own affairs, that they're incapacitated, that they have dementia, Alzheimer's, whatever it is.

Yeah.

And then we have to take that letter from the physician.

We have to file it in the court with a petition and show the judge this is what's going on.

The judge will set a hearing.

We have to serve notice of that hearing on all the immediate family members and then we actually have to go into court.

The people that are seeking to be the guardians have to come in with us to the attorneys as well as in lots of cases the actual person that we're trying to get guardianship over.

>> Yeah, and we'll have to show up there along with as well a guardian ad litem which is usually it's another attorney that's appointed by the judge that's appointed to talk to everybody that's involved, figure out what's going on and make a recommendation to the court as to whether or not a guardian really is needed and whether or not the people that are asking to be the guardians are the right ones to do it.

>> So the judge makes that final decision.

The judge makes that final decision.

So we come in all of us get there.

>> We tell that whole story and then the judge makes a ruling on it on our petition.

Well, from what I know and I don't know much about oh but it's a probate judge who handles guardianship.

OK, all right.

And Allen County Judge Halk who has been on life I many times he's a great guest.

>> Yeah.

OK, let's talk about wills and living wills.

>> Is it the same thing, Heidi?

Now a will is the document that says who gets your things after you've passed away?

A living will is a document where you say if I am incurable I'm going to die within a short period of time and life prolonging procedures aren't going to make me better.

They're just going to keep me alive artificially longer.

You're saying I don't want any of those things when you sign a living will and then in a living will you can also say what your preference is are as far as artificial nutrition and hydration.

>> If you're at the end of your life , where do you keep that?

>> Who knows you have it or don't have it?

Well, you're you're very much able to provide it to your doctor or the hospital.

It's supposed to be in your medical record.

I often wonder if will be found when when it needs to be found.

>> I know but I've been wondering about that.

I recall filling one out and answering those questions.

>> I have no clue where it is or or it's probably up to I mean I know we always give it to people in an envelope where we put a copy of their will and their powers of attorney their living wills in there too.

And it's always a good idea to let your decision maker, your power of attorney know hey, these things are in my desk or wherever and so they could go searching for the living will if it came time for that.

>> I'll tell you, Heidi, a real stickler on making sure that you're organized right.

>> We've talked about this before when we've talked about estate planning or taking care of some of these end of life situations and problems to take care of .

And Heidi, I know I could go to her house and find out where to get everything because you've said it's in an orange folder.

Yeah, it's orange but yeah.

>> But right now that's the kind of thing and I bring this up because you make sure your family is informed on what you want to do right where your will is or living well or all of that.

>> So if you keep it in one place along with and I think you've mentioned this other things that they might need for example passwords, account numbers, you know, anything that has to do with finances.

>> Yeah, a listing of assets is very helpful and we always do encourage people to have a conversation with their health care representative so they know what you want, what your thoughts are about end of life things because you'd be surprised how burdened people are when they have to make decisions for people and if they know what your thoughts are, it's it's helpful.

>> OK, good.

We have a question here from Dave and Dave says this he says I my mother's power of attorney I know legally you guys are certain that power of attorney at what point do I turn over Paey status or status to a nursing home?

>> Good question that so I think you're probably saying that when do you make the nursing home your mom's representative pay for Social Security purposes?

>> And I generally advise clients if you're if you have a power of attorney and the Social Security is going into a bank account, I encourage people to keep control of that themselves that when you get to say when is the liability being paid to the nursing home, there's a little buildup up in the account.

I'm going to run out and go buy my mom something.

Yeah, it just leaves you in control and maybe your mom might go to a hospital for a while.

You might not owe the full liability to the nursing home and then you could use that extra money to to buy something extra for her.

So I tend to encourage people to keep that job for themselves.

>> OK, that's certainly some good advice there.

OK, all right Daniel, I'm going to come back to you here.

>> Let's say I'm I'm leaving my children a lot of my estate.

>> How can I make sure that they're going to use it the way I want them to?

Of course.

Of course there are some things you can do to kind of keep keep them in check if you will, after you pass away.

Usually what we would do in that situation is set up a trust and there's a number of different ways that that can happen.

It can be through through the will or it can be a separate trust document.

We really kind of tailor that to your situation if you want to keep funds there until they reach a certain age or disperse money at certain increments at some point we can pretty much do whatever you have in mind for your family.

>> Do a lot of people that maybe have younger children or grandchildren, do they give specific ages and say you give my grandson one fourth of his inheritance when he's twenty another fourth when he's thirty five?

>> You know, what do they do that they do that often more than more than not actually and really I think I'm starting to see their ages are creeping up.

>> We're getting people that are designating those distributions to happen older and older.

>> So yeah it really I mean you know that's money that these parents have worked for their entire life and they know their children and even if they've you know, they trust that they're going to be financially responsible, they want to make sure that that money lets them in can sustain them and not don't want a new red Corvette or something Heidi.

So you've had this situation with clients?

Hmm?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean in many cases parents are really concerned that, you know, they they know that they've been providing ongoing support for a child even beyond their adulthood and they think I just want to make sure they're going to be OK in retirement.

And the only way that I know how to make sure that's going to happen is to put somebody else in charge of their money so that it doesn't get spent too quickly.

>> So it could be a guardian or it could even be what a bank while you refer to the person in charge of the trust as a trustee.

>> OK, and yes, banks can be trustees friends relatives can be trustees.

>> All right.

We have another question here.

>> This is from James and James says If I have a piece of paper that had my wishes after death on it but it's not official it is an official will it hold any legs?

>> Wait if I pass away before making a well, that's a good question.

So maybe he's I'm interpreting James tell me if I'm wrong that James has written down what he wants but has not been to an attorney so it's not an official will.

>> Right.

So James, unfortunately that does not work.

A will has got to be properly witnessed and signed with certain attestation clauses in it.

You can say that's crazy.

I know it's job security for Daniel and myself but they do that just so that it's it's hard to, you know, fake a will.

You know, somebody under duress could try to make you write a letter to say what they wanted to happen with their property.

So unfortunately you should think about contacting an attorney and getting a will done.

>> OK, all right.

Daniel, agree or disagree?

>> Of course I agree.

Yeah, OK. Yeah.

And again these would become legal documents.

>> Where do they go?

Who has the legal document if it's will or whatever who has that?

A lot of times the lawyer who drafted it has the will in their possession.

>> And one other thing kind of in the vein of James question is that it doesn't work also to like try and handwrite your own changes on a will or a trust document.

You just would be surprised how many times people come in with documents that they've thought that they, you know, crossed out something something that you changed it, initialed it and that that doesn't work either.

>> Well, you need some legal advice it like I want to ask about miscellaneous things maybe in your will you've specified what you want done with your house, your car, maybe the lake cottage, you know, things like that that perhaps your assets.

>> But what about smaller things?

Who gets the China and the silver away from that?

>> Do you make those decisions beforehand or do you just let your kids battle it out?

Yeah, yeah.

That runs the gamut.

You have some people that really want to get down into the weeds and designate certain items.

I want this particular dish to go to this person and then you have other people just say I don't care, let them figure it out so you know it really we can again tailor that to whatever the person's wishes are often we'll include a memorandum which is just listing where the person can write out things and go yes, OK. >> And so they can designate certain items to certain people to their hearts content if that's what they want to do don't have to but it's certainly an option.

>> Is that what you attach to the will then or what do you do with that?

You know, in in the form of wills that we use we reference the memorandum it says I might leave a list of get certain items and then you fill out your list at your leisure whenever you want to.

You can change the list whenever you want to and then just make sure gets put somewhere where somebody will find it.

I say to clients if you want to mail your list to me I'll stick it with your will.

So we know it could be a good idea.

>> Yeah.

Or you know, share with your kids.

Here's the list I hope you guys will honor what what it says.

>> Yeah exactly.

I understand one of the popular things now is to label things like the put you know the little Post-it well that's not big enough but a little sign on the bottom of different things.

>> Yeah.

Who's going to get and that's not necessarily legally binding that type of program but it's the rare family that I think the family would go in and switch to the name they could they good.

But it's most we don't get involved in that many good property disputes.

People usually can figure that stuff out and a lot of times they've talked that out beforehand.

>> I would tell you my kids will kill me if they're watching this show.

>> I have two adult children and one day we were cleaning out everything out of the China cabinet and you polishing cleaning when I put it back in and the two of them a boy and a girl we're talking about who's going to get what I mean I'm in the kitchen.

>> Yeah, eight feet away.

>> I can hear every word there say well what if you take that and I could have that and yeah and I was like I hollered in and said I'm still alive.

>> Yeah.

I'm not done with it yet.

>> Yeah actually seems like most families they're just saying I don't want to be the one that gets left with all of this mess to deal with really you know.

>> Right.

And that's an issue to the infant and you both worked on settling estates.

>> Is that more difficult than it used to be given that a lot of people don't want their parents thing?

>> Yeah, I mean that's when you were talking about your kids.

I almost I was thinking well you should just be glad that they want because so many people are minimalists now they they just don't want stuff.

>> Well, they really are.

I mean, you know, because they'll say well what would I do with China when we entertain we're in the backyard.

Yeah.

Real paper plane.

Yeah right.

Right.

I recently was at lunch with an auctioneer and I said talk to me about people's personal property.

Yeah.

And she said I hate to tell you but you really hope you raise enough money to pay the people to move the stuff that doesn't sell.

You don't generally make a lot of money off of tangible personal property.

>> Really.

Yeah.

Which all the things that we all go to work every day to be I know I and nobody wants it so exactly.

>> Yeah.

A friend of mine said she had like I don't know so many servings of erm some China cup from Italy and it took her years to collect as many as she wanted none of her kids wanted at all and she has hundreds of dollars invested in that.

>> Yeah yeah no Genaro's changing world we live in it certainly is yeah.

>> OK Danielle let's go back to you.

What do you do if your property is transferred at Dhaif.

>> If I don't if you don't have it well OK ok Todd right transferred on daugh is that something that you decide like you would also select a beneficiary?

>> Yeah that would be something that would actually cause your property to pass outside of your will.

So I do a transfer on deathy that kind of makes it well not kind of that makes it so that your property is just going to pass straight to that beneficiary that you've designated without having to go through the probate court and the terms that you put in your will are not going to affect what happens with that property .

>> OK, now tell me if I'm correct.

I think from from your being on before, Heidi, if you have beneficiaries listed on your 401k or whatever and you have a will but they're different the beneficiary takes precedence.

>> Is that good does over well yeah.

Wow.

And I've had to fight that now there's not much fighting to be done.

>> Yeah no it's usually a slam dunk that the beneficiary designation trumps and I had a client recently come in and say hey I won each of my grand kids to get twenty thousand dollars and as we were talking and so I was going to put that in the will and as we were talking I found they had beneficiaries on everything on their checking account or savings really they'd already done a transfer deducted to their house and I said well we don't really have any money, we don't have the will to go to the grandkids.

So you just got to make all that stuff fit together like a puzzle.

>> Wow.

That's a good example of how things can get complex.

>> So you made a will you and you've selected whatever your power of attorney or health care representative Daniel, let me ask you this.

Let's say that in your will you have also indicate you know who these beneficiaries are or who's going to be your power of attorney.

Can you have more than one maybe you want both your niece and your daughter to co do things.

>> Yeah, well just to be clear so your power of attorney outside of your will that's a separate document was appointing that person but for both of those situations so for your personal representative that you appoint in your will and for your power of attorney, health care representative, all of those things you can appoint more than one person and it's pretty common.

In fact I think we're telling a lot of people it's a good idea sometimes a lot of people would appoint their spouse and their kids alternate and what Heidi, seeing as her clients are aging, they want those kids to be just help now even though the spouse is still alive.

So you know, a lot of people are putting more than one person on as a power of attorney and that's very easy to do and you can designate if you want them to be forced to make decisions together jointly or if they each have independent authority can you say that in your role you want them both to sign everything?

>> I mean you can but I I want to caution people to do that.

>> It just I mean you could have a family situation that warranted it but if you're in a family that gets along well to add that extra administrative burden yeah.

>> Don't do it.

And sometimes it just gets so complicated in the world we live in now people are more spread out and maybe you have four kids but they're living in four different states and you know, to get them all together to sign some document might be well and pretty difficult even if you're all around, it's just nice to be able to divide and conquer like you take this bank.

>> I'll deal with the BMV.

You deal with the house.

Yes.

To be able to spread the work.

>> Yeah.

OK, one last question and Heidi, I'll ask you this but jump if if you have something to add Danielle so you've made your will you you've asked some people to be beneficial.

>> We don't have to ask them.

You can name them right.

>> Should you tell them should you tell people or your kids what your will?

>> I think that's a personal decision.

I kind of say I I don't share specific too early in life because kids may take mental possession of a certain amount of money that they think is coming their way and end your own life may take many twists and turns.

You may have health care expenses, et cetera and that may not be there for them when when you pass so I say keep people guessing a little bit.

>> You can be a little bit pretty good.

Yeah, Danielle, if you had any experience with any of your clients where you had those kinds of situations.

>> Yeah.

I find you know, oftentimes when people are advanced planning they've they've had a lot of conversations with their family and they kind of know what the situation is going to be.

But yeah, from time to time people like to kind of keep things you know, my theory is that that's changing a little bit again with modern times because people are spread out or whatever women you know want to hold on to that thought because we have another phone call I want to make sure we get to hear and this is from Carol.

She said I had my will done by an attorney but picked up a packet for a will.

>> The state recognized that Heidi picked up a packet for POWA power of attorney.

>> I wonder what that feels like.

Maybe you did one on line or something like that.

So often times those online powers of attorney work sometimes I do find that they lack powers that that you wish that you would have had at certain times.

So again have a lawyer check it out, OK?

All right.

OK Carol thank you so much for watching and for calling in.

>> We're going to have to save my question until the next time you come because our time is up for tonight unfortunately.

But we're going to be back here next Wednesday night.

A different topic and some different guests.

But once a month we always have attorneys on for sure.

So you'll get an opportunity for a lot of legal advice here on like the hit.

>> Meanwhile, have a great evening.

Stay healthy and stay safe.

Good night Beers Mallers - Elder law attorneys providing information on legal matters of guardianship and financial issues relating to nursing home care.

Beers Mallers attorneys can also assist with Medicaid requirements and help navigate difficult family situations.

Beers Mallers - Attorneys at law with offices in Fort Wayne, LaGrange and on the web at BeersMallers.com.