estate planning might sound like something that's just for certain people but the truth is that estate planning is something we all need to think about no matter how large or small our net worth although about six in ten Americans have a retirement account, only one in three have an estate plan.

That's according to a caring dotcom wills and estate planning study from this year with inflation impacting almost everyone's lives, more people are thinking about financial futures than ever before and that's why it's never too late or early to secure your legacy and protect your loved ones with an estate plan as we'll find out this week's prime time.

And good evening.

I'm ST's with us today.

pOur David Hemel a certified financial planner and financial advisor with Philips Financial and attorney Troy Kiffer whose focus areas include estate planning and administration at Beer Smellers LLP attorneys Law and our guests are here to answer your estate planning questions and you can join the conversation just by calling the number there on your screen as we widen out and welcome everybody.

This is Troy and there's David.

>> Gentlemen, thank you.

Thank you for being here.

We appreciate it.

It's wonderful to be here.

Bruce .

>> Thank you.

That statistic kind of stuck with me going into this time ogether.

Six in ten have a retirement account.

Only one in three have an estate plan.

>> Why do you think that is?

Well, I think primarily people don't think I have enough money to need an estate plan and I think people would be surprised to actually once you start counting up all those assets, you'd be surprised to learn that actually they do have enough didn't need a will or trust or some other tool from our toolbox in order to distribute those assets after they pass away.

>> David, I would hear that some people spend more time planning a vacation than than they than they do for how their financial futures will will look.

>> Yeah, and it's it's not always a fun thing to plan out and think about but it is something that you you want to make sure that you do when everything is OK. You don't want to push this off until something goes wrong and then you need it.

It's kind of like if somebody is you know it needs a loan for something it's a lot easier to get a line of credit when you don't have any need for the money as opposed to when you have a glaring need for the money.

>> So it's kind of like that.

Yeah, And I was noticing too out of that same study that when you break it out by age group, those that are 18 to 34 have about 27 percent of that group is working through estate planning now and so they are gaining while meanwhile there is a group fifty five up the that number has actually fallen from sixty percent in twenty nineteen to forty four in twenty twenty one.

How long can we run on autopilot without looking at the roadmaps when we think about estate planning.

>> Yeah yeah that's a very good question and it's very difficult for people I think to face their own mortality and I think that's a lot of it.

We see different stages in that earlier age group that you mentioned.

They're getting married, they're having children.

They know they need something to make sure that their children children's guardians are appointed at that point.

So we usually see an uptick in that age group right after marriage and then a lot of folks just kind of sit on their their wills and estate plan until they get ready for retirement and then that they start thinking about that and you know, once again the mortality issue what I find is when you pull that monster out from underneath the bed and you look at square in the eye, it's still a scary thing but it's not quite as scary as the unknown or what it might be.

So if you face it and you go through your state plan, it gives people a lot of peace of mind.

>> I think about the inflation monster that's also next to the other monster under the bed, David and people thinking OK, the cost of living now the cost of aging and hopefully gracefully you know, it's tough to kind of if you will build a construct around it.

>> It's kind of ambiguous, right?

Yeah.

And I think having an estate plan really helps with that because you know, and in a will or a trust you can give assets based on a percentage or a dollar amount.

And so really that provides a great amount of flexibility.

And another thing that you said earlier with people not thinking that they have enough assets for an estate planning or a will I mean look at the housing market.

I mean house prices are through the roof and that's part of your estate and so people don't often think of that.

And when you have if there's people that aren't necessarily maybe next of kin or part of your family that maybe you want to have be a part of your state plan if you let your assets go to probate then the really gets to decide instead of you.

>> So why don't we start with that notion when you hear the words estate plan, the initial thought is Plantation B spread probably something with horses and not necessarily thinking it's it's my own little corner of the world but it's a lot of other things that are tucked in with me in that corner.

So for both of you, what all goes into that idea of an estate?

>> What what does the state tend to describe?

Well, in my mind an estate plan involves two things and it involves what people typically think of are assets.

So it deals with asset preservation and that just talks about stuff money, what's in the house real estate and how that's going to be gifted to your loved ones or charity or church.

But the second thing would be family preservation because I'm sure we all have stories we've heard of families that are ripped apart from an inheritance and a big part of what I try and do is not only address the asset side of things but work with the person on how do we best structure this plan so that there are the least friction points within the family after you're gone.

>> So this is helping as there are other aspects of life power of attorney in and advanced directives and things of this nature that that when those moments are coming in the continuum things have already been decided as you both have suggested at a time when there is a little more stabile city and a chance to really exercise all the options and see how they turn out.

>> Right.

Yeah, I've had the I guess unfortunate experience of working with clients who have had that talk with the doctor that they only have so many weeks or so many months and if you think it's difficult to put together your estate plan when you're healthy and you have what you think is your whole LIFE Ahead of you, try putting together your estate plan when you've had that talk and you're going through that horrible experience that is really difficult and you know when you're looking at it either in that short term or preparing for other eventualities say your own self care in the event of a disability or taking care of dependents with disability care is another factor.

Both of you are here to reflect the fact that there are at least two sides to this coin of estate planning.

>> Let me hear you each describe how you and the other play together to make estate planning successful.

>> David, let me start with you.

Yeah, so through our financial planning process we really take a look at somebody's whole financial picture.

So it's not just how many assets do you have, how much is in your investment account?

It's really taking a look at, you know, what makes you tick, what are your objectives and you know what can we help plan for in the future?

And a very large part of that is estate planning making sure that you know you know what is going to happen to your assets when you're gone.

>> And really we we spend our whole lives kind making money and building these assets up oftentimes to support our family and family.

A lot of times gets pushed to the back burner when it's time to make financial decisions.

But that's really it should be at the forefront of those decisions that are made because it is why you're making the decision in the first place.

>> And how about for you your perspective?

Right.

Well, you mentioned two sides of the same coin and I think primarily I would work with what we would call probate assets.

>> Those would be things that a person owns in their own name at the time that they pass away house vehicles, personal property, sometimes other things and as we spoke earlier, I think David would tell you that he works a lot with non probate assets and those would be things that would have beneficiary language such as retirement accounts and pay on death accounts and things like that.

>> Yeah, that's right.

And a lot of times we we see people who you know, they they go to see their estate planning attorney.

They they get a will they have a power of attorney health care power of attorney.

They've got it all and then you know, they forget about their 401k that you know, when they established it they designated their their father as a beneficiary because they didn't have a wife or kids yet and they forget about that so that that's a big part of the estate plan that happens after all the documents are completed and that it's it's one of the the harder aspects because you've got to go to all these different places to get to the different forms and make sure that those beneficiary designations for the 401k is the IRAs, the accounts that are driven by that that beneficiary instead of the will or something like that just making sure that those correspond and help just make sure that your estate plan and your assets are working together and that's probably one of the great safety valves in the in the in the estate planning process which is it is not a one and done this isn't like OK, you're set for life that this this is something where like any other aspect of your life I understand every what two or three years or maybe even annually depending upon whether it's the legal dynamic of the financial dynamic you're with conventional wisdom says peek under the hood and see what's going on.

>> Yeah, yeah.

I would say any time there's a major life change so death, marriage, birth those are good times to review your estate plan and short of that any time the law changes so your attorney should reach out to you if there are major changes in the law that would affect your estate plan and then just periodically so every three or four years as you feel the need arises and on the financial side I saw a piece today recognizing that there is a forgotten element in estate planning called portfolio restructuring.

How many savings accounts do I really need or how many checking accounts do I really need that I suppose is as much financial as it is legal but from a custodial aspect of life apparently the idea is as we decliner as we go along simplifying the financial sides of things.

>> Estate planning is a driver.

Yeah, yeah.

And yeah it's kind of similar to you know, people as they as they age.

A lot of times you see them trying to declare their house and they're like well I don't want my kids to have to do it.

And so it's it's kind of the same situation that we see a lot with the financial assets just trying to simplify things as much as possible so that loved ones don't have to you know, mess with all of that when they're already going through a tough time.

If you only have to go to one bank or one particular investment firm of some sort, I suppose those are all positive.

>> I think that's a brilliant idea.

Yeah.& Yeah, we have Stephen who has said in a question and you can do as well either offline or call the number you see on the screen there.

But Steven's wondering what kind of protection do beneficiary have against other beneficiaries under the same estate?

>> Troy.

Yes, well state law is very specific, OK, on how estates, particularly probate estates are to be managed and handled and there would typically be a personal representative who would be in charge of organizing and administering that estate and they have a duty to the other beneficiaries to do what's in their best interest as well.

If something goes awry and there are beneficiaries who are at somewhat odds as to how the estate is to be managed and there is a court process to go through in order to get that in front of a judge to to have it reviewed and make sure that everything is being done fairly and in accordance with law.

>> And so we hope that helps in the situation that you're referencing.

So we thank you for that.

And again, any other thoughts and comments were live in studio.

Please feel free to check in with Troy Kiffer Flabbier Smellers LLP or David Hamill from Philips Financial Services that are with us tonight on Pime Time.

You want to be sure that as much normal continues as we move through the years and some of that can also include charitable giving.

>> There is concern of of how assets are passed down or perhaps how financial wherewithal is able to be shared in the community.

I'd like to hear each of you perhaps talk about how that element factors in to a person's estate planning considerations and really charitable giving is something that it varies from person to a impacts and the tax savings- that can happen from charitable giving varies from situation to situation.

So one place that I see people not taking advantage of a lot is using their required minimum distribution and so on once they reach age seventy two or the law changes standard not seventy five but once once they reach around armed age they can give from that required minimum distribution from their IRA directly to the charity and the charity doesn't pay any tax on that and they don't pay any tax on that and so it's a much more efficient way to give if you were just going to give out of your spare cash or something like that.

So that's one way in in retirement that it can really be beneficial to Earth.

The best way to give to a charity.

But before retirement there's also you can give appreciated stock whereas if you sold it you would have to pay capital gains on on the gain portion of that stock whereas the charity is exempt from from that tax.

And so it's really a great way to you do good in your community while also keeping yourself isolated from those those taxes and you'll I think the whole notion of an estate plan is a legacy document in a sense you know how you're wanting to see yourself play out and within the components of that some of it might well be in giving back to the community as well as giving to your heirs and other members of your family, your immediate family.

>> Yes, absolutely.

And I like to think of it as a really this is your last statement in this mortal world.

>> This is what your last known for is how you're distributing your assets and it's the last action that you've made a decision on that people will will have an understanding of what your thoughts are.

And so here we come back to that two sided coin again.

It requires planning and you know where there is no planning the people suffer.

And so if there is charitable gifting that needs to be mentioned both in the person's will or trust as well as through charitable gifting through beneficiary language, through David works with.

So it's a holistic approach that everybody has to be involved in and understand that it has to be included in each step of the process.

>> Yeah, and that's that's a great point.

Troy just really charitable giving doesn't have to, you know, happen just during your life .

You can you know, if you don't feel like you don't have the assets or you want to make sure that the assets are there for your heirs or for yourself in case you need it.

You can always, you know, have a charity, be a charity, be listed on your beneficiary designations or in your will.

And so that's that's a place that can get overlooked all the times.

>> Good God.

We want to welcome Reader's question to our program tonight.

She called in and notes that Rita says I have a will and I have a copy at my brother's house.

Should I file it anywhere else like the courts?

Well, Rita, that's a very good question.

Um, the courts typically do not receive a will before it's actually probated.

There is a process to do that but for whatever reason that generally isn't followed.

So my recommendation would be make sure that it's your original will is a safe place.

You can only have one original will and if you don't have that will that original then the court assumes that you destroyed it with the intent of revoking.

So you want to make sure that you hang on to that original well and if you think that safe at your brother's house then that's where it should be.

Other places to have it would be in a safe deposit box, fireproof box at home or with the attorney who created it.

We like to hang on to our original wills just so we know where they are located and that raises an interesting thought that I'm seeing in subject matter dealing with estate planning trends all the future forward activity and one of the elements they include in a lot of the writing deals with digital assets that read as well could be digitized if it and and it could live in a cloud maybe it shouldn't live in a cloud or should live in a protected community.

A gated community of clouds where other wills are kept safe.

But in terms of accepting signatures on documents and whether these are probate assets or not as you move forward I'm just curious as you look beyond 23 and to 24, some fundamental things in estate planning are bedrock.

They are foundational but to what extent is technology being a help or a the fly you can't get rid of in terms of estate planning and monitoring?

>> Yeah, well with a lot of things covid really had an impact on how we use such things as remote signing because typically I'm kind of old school.

I like to have the person there in front of me signing along with witnesses.

Obviously covid kind of put a crimp in that we had a lot of parking lot signings and things but the state legislature really stepped up and created an avenue where we can do remote signings and other thing to think about as you mentioned, digital assets most people don't know but you should look into this if you have an iPhone there is actually an option in your iPhone where you can appoint somebody to receive your digital iPhone account after you pass away.

So you just designate them as your representative and then they would have authority to manage anything that's on your iPhone.

into as well.ething to look- The whole thing is crawling with digital when you're in that particular state.

David, how about from your perspective?

>> Yeah, I think that the cloud and just being able to capture things digitally has really helped a lot of people at least in my experience we've we've had people who are you know, at the airport and they lose their passport or their daughter doesn't have their ID and we're able to go into our files and and send them a copy real quick so that they can fly home and just having things on hand like that can be just extremely beneficial because you don't want to be you know, at the hospital and you need a power of attorney and you only have physical copy at your house.

It's really can save a lot of time, a lot of stress to have a trusted person have a digital copy that they can send to you when you need it.

>> Yeah, I think of people who at least in the prior century still at least had an accordion envelope or accordion folder with multiple dividers and you just put it all in there and you hope you remembered where it went.

Yeah, and I'm imagining digital does in fact make some things a little more convenient on the surface and then maybe a little more chaotic on the other end if you keep forgetting the passwords in the time we have we have a moment for Carol's question how much in assets do you need for your estate to go to probate?

>> Another good question in Indiana if you have more than one hundred thousand dollars in your own personal name then that requires a probate estate that's recently been increased.

It used to be fifty thousand dollars up until a couple of years ago.

Now that threshold is one hundred thousand dollars and if you have less than that then we can transfer your estate via affidavit as opposed to going through court.

So a lot of our strategy once again working with financial advisers like David would be to use non probate transfers as much as possible to get that person down below the one hundred thousand dollar threshold and then administer the rest of it through what we call a small estate administration which would be less than one hundred thousand dollars and in the seconds we have it's not a trick question.

But is estate planning then an ongoing process a product of that process or all of the above?

>> I would say it's it's all of the above and and you know, I think it's important that when you put together your estate planning documents that you do them the right way.

You want to make sure that you know, you're not just getting something online.

You want to go to a trusted estate planning attorney that knows what to look for and knows the laws so that you're not left out in the cold.

>> Ten seconds.

Yeah, I agree with everything he said.

>> Don't go it alone.

That's exactly right.

Life is too unpredictable is it is David Hamill is a financial adviser with Forbes Financial Services and also Troy Kiffer joining us tonight, attorney with Pierce Malaz LLP attorneys at law.

Gentlemen, thank you so much.

Thank you and thank you for allowing us to be a part of your evening for all of us with prime time.

>> I'm Bruce Haines.

Take care.

We'll see you next week.

Good night