>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in a hospital where a friend or loved one is getting ready to be discharged.

The patient needs more care but doesn't want to go to a nursing home or another facility.

They want to go home.

How can you support them and meet their medical needs in their home?

And will they be open to it?

Will they know about different services?

Those are questions that families navigate daily in communities across the country.

And for many people, setting up home health care options like a nurse who can assist with medication is a welcome one for many other people.

It's difficult to access that kind of support, and there are disparities.

Research from earlier this year shows that patients of color, particularly African American patients, are less likely to receive home health care as compared to patients of other races.

When hospital when hospital patients are preparing for discharge, providers give them a score for how ready they are to go home.

And as reported by Wisconsin Public Radio in her study, Marquette University associate Professor Abiola Keller found that black patients had to score worse than white patients in order to have the same likelihood of receiving a home health care referral.

I'm going to say that again, the black patients had to get a worse score than the white patients in order to have the same chance of getting a home health care referral.

It was not the same.

And why is that?

Well, while there are numerous causes for the issue, there is one overall effect greater health disparities here.

The data is a look at what's happening at a national level, but disparities in access to home health care is happening in our region as well.

That's why HCR Home Care has launched an initiative to try to close the gap to access the strategy is to work with local pastors and faith based organizations to reach people, especially aged 65 and older, who may not have been able to get home health care and those who may not have been open to it for various reasons.

This hour, we're joined by people connected to this program, talking about the disparities what's wrong, how to fix it, whether this works, and what the organizers want all of us to understand about these problems.

And let me welcome our guests this hour.

Welcome to Phyllis Jackson, a registered nurse.

Can Community health and Well-Being project manager for Common Ground Health.

Nice to see you in the studio here.

>> Thank you Evan, it's nice to be here.

>> Across the table from Phyllis Deanna Dudley, a compliance nurse at HCR Home Healthcare.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And welcome to Pastor Bernard McNeill Senior Pastor at New Life Fellowship Church.

Thank you for being here, pastor.

>> Glad to be here today.

>> So there's a there's a lot we're going to talk about here, but sort of zooming out a little bit, Phyllis, we talked before the program about what everybody should know.

And one of the points you're making is that the disparities are real.

>> Absolutely.

>> What are you seeing?

>> We see them everywhere.

You know, the disparities.

It's not surprising that there's disparity in home care services or how people are elected to receive home care services.

Since we have that same discrimination and racism impacts people in the hospital, at their doctor's offices and in all areas of our community.

So it's just a reflection of what our societies and people of color are experiencing everyday in life.

So it's really not a surprise that we would find that disparity in home care as well.

>> And when we talk about home care, what's the range that that you're thinking of here that you want us thinking about?

>> I'm sorry.

>> In terms of what home care we're talking about here, what kind of needs what kind of we're.

>> Talking health care, right?

I think we're talking about primarily people that have had hospitalizations that require assistance with ADLs, activities of daily living and getting food, getting dressing, being able to bathe, be ambulation, those kind of things that they cannot no can no longer do for themselves or need support in doing.

so that's what we're talking about.

We're not talking about the other nursing.

We're not talking about PT and all of those other services that are offered with home care, but are also needed and still suffer from the same concept that you're talking about.

They have to be way more often better because in need than than white patients do.

But in essence, the basis of home, of home care for home health aides is that people, older adults in particular, but also other populations have lose the ability to provide self-care every day.

Need that, you know, that keeps them having dignity.

You know, to be able to bathe themselves and feed themselves and cook and doing things they've always done.

So that's a big blow to anyone's ego.

And self-concept and idea of who they are.

And so home health aides provide this.

They are key to the emotional and mental well-being of of of older adults.

but anybody needing home.

>> Care and what you just described is going to touch or probably has touched everybody listening at some point.

So it's a family member.

It could be you right now.

It could be you in the future.

I mentioned at the top of the program so often what people will tell doctors in the hospital is, I just want to go home.

Yes, I want to be home.

Obviously, you're not going to go home until they decide you're ready.

But when even when you go home, you have a lot of need.

And when you lose that independence, or when you lose that ability to have quality of life, it can be devastating.

So before I talk to the other guests, I just want to ask you one more question about these disparities.

We know that disparities are real.

There's data.

This is not just like a theory or a supposition, but if black patients are not getting access to home health care as much as white, is it intentional, in your view?

Is it the product of sort of a structure of, of unequal or, or racist sort of set up that goes back decades and it's just the byproduct of that.

Are most people involved in the system not wanting or maybe not even aware that that disparity exists?

I mean, how do you see it?

>> I agree it is institutional.

It has been around for so long that people just accept that that's the way it is.

And there have not been voices raised at enough tables to say, this is racism.

All right.

This is creative.

We know we talk about health disparities and going to the doctor and all that, but we don't talk about these health disparities.

But it's been around for a long time.

This is nothing new.

People just accept it because nobody has challenged it.

>> All right.

So let's talk about what Deanna does here as a compliance nurse at HCR Home Care.

Tell us a little bit about the work that you do.

>> So I work in compliance, but I actually started a program about four years ago called the Diverse Care Project, which really kind of highlights what Miss Phyllis is really talking about, addressing these health disparities that we're seeing in the community.

You know, at the height of COVID, we saw these numbers and they started breaking down to ethnicities, and we start seeing that black people were dying at a faster rate from COVID than any other race.

But when you really started looking at it, they weren't just dying from COVID, they were dying from other preventable diseases.

And we have to go back to the structural racism and the history of health care.

You know, there's been a distrust of the health care system in the black community for years.

And we can't just sweep it under the rug and say, oh, this happened years ago.

It's a real thing.

And to miss Phyllis's point, there are patients right now.

The study just showed this year in 2025 that black patients are being discharged from the hospital faster than white patients are.

So that is showing you something right there that things are still happening even in 2025.

And so this program is designed to really bring awareness to what's still happening, but also try to have this conversation that there is resources available to you.

There are many people in the black community who have no idea that you can get help in your home, because nobody's talking about it, they're not aware of it.

People have insurance.

They're not using it because, again, they're afraid of being judged.

They're afraid they're not going to be treated fairly at the doctor's office.

They're afraid they're not going to be heard because it's happening over and over and over again.

So they're just not getting treatment.

They're not getting help.

But imagine going into the hospital finding out you have a new health diagnosis and you're being sent home the same day after having a cardiac procedure.

You don't know how to handle that.

You don't know what to do, and they're giving you instructions on a piece of paper to say, do this and look for this.

And an average person is not going to know how to handle certain things.

And so this program is really talking about, hey, you can trust HCR Home Care.

You can trust these health care professionals.

I know what has happened in the past.

We're not going to ever negate that.

However, we have to start somewhere.

The conversation is black people are dying and we're dying younger and faster than any other race.

And even with our seniors, I've always said they are our most vulnerable, but our most valuable population.

And they really don't have anyone to advocate for them.

>> And I'm hung up on a point that you're making.

I just want to explore this a little bit because as we as we said earlier, there's very few people who will say things like, I'd rather be in the hospital than home.

Everybody, everybody says they want to be home, but you want to trust that when they send you home, you are, number one, ready to be home, and you'll have the support that you need at home.

Otherwise you should not be going home early.

So when you talk about black patients being discharged earlier than white patients, that is a big red flag because the indication something is going on here.

Again, do we know why this is happening?

>> I mean, I wish we had the answer to that.

You know, I don't think there is a real answer.

I think that a lot of times patients have voiced that they are not heard when they are talking to their providers.

Even a recent study talking about pain right now, 14% of black patients right now say that their pain is not being managed effectively by their providers, their pain levels, when it comes to pain medications, only 1% of white people say that their pain is not being managed.

So why is that?

Why is it that black people are saying, I have chronic health conditions and my pain is not being managed properly?

So there's something that's going on.

We've been having a breakdown when it comes to health care and communication with providers.

It's been going on for years.

I don't think we're ever going to find the answer.

I think if we found the answer, then we could solve a whole bunch of different things.

But I see you want to you have something to say.

>> Phyllis is chomping at the bit here.

>> Yeah it is historical.

It has always been that way.

Every study that's ever been done has shown there's been a disparity in how black patients or other patients of color are treated.

It's in every area.

Obstetrics.

More about black mothers die.

All of those kinds.

Every area of medicine.

So we know that one of the things that needs to happen is voices need to be raised.

But in order for voices to be raised, first thing we have to have knowledge.

So I'm a big proponent.

I teach health literacy, and one of the things that I do is health literacy has traditionally been taught to providers.

You know, they talk to the nurses, the doctors and what we need and I do is provide health literacy to the patient.

If patients know what to expect, how to speak up, how to elevate their voice, how to ask the right questions, and what to do if they get the wrong answers, then they can be activated to say, I will no longer tolerate that example.

If you are in the hospital and you go to the emergency room and you don't feel like you're ready to go home, and you are a patient that has an older adult, you can file a grievance.

I, I do.

I inform people about that.

I've done it.

And they said, you're going home.

I said, I'm not going home.

Yes you are.

You're ready to go home.

No I'm not.

I don't feel I'm safe.

And so what we did was I filed a grievance.

They cannot discharge you for until that grievance has been resolved.

And they can't charge you for the hospital bed.

And so.

But most black people, people of color, do not know that.

So therefore they don't speak up.

I'm not ready to go home.

The law says that the person has to be able to go home.

They have to be ready.

There are some requirements that need to be met, but if we sit back and say, okay, you say I'm ready and I accept it, I don't feel like it, but I got family at home and they'll take care of it.

No, the voices have to be the voices of the people that are being served.

And that is why this has traditionally been going on.

And it keeps going because we're we don't have the knowledge to be able to use the power that we have.

in speaking into these conditions, I'm not going to be treated differently.

And there's something I can do about it.

>> Okay.

Now, at one point in the reporting for my colleague Jeremy Moll, I want to read a little bit about what Jeremy said.

what Deanna said to Jeremy about how you start to create the kind of awareness because we can't put Phyllis Jackson in every household, although we're going to try this is what Deanna told Jeremy Moule we realized that in the black culture, the church is really the heart of the community.

When you have a child and you want your child to be dedicated, you call your pastor.

When you're going to get married, you call your pastor.

Even in times of loss, you call your pastor.

And so we thought, what about calling your pastor for health as well?

Tell me more about that idea.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

So during COVID, when the COVID vaccine came out, it was a big conversation in the black community.

And I think all of us can kind of attest to that.

And because historically, as we've been talking about how there have been experiments on black people, when the COVID vaccine came out and the black community, we said, we're not taking that.

They're going to try to kill us off.

I mean, we had all these things going on through our heads and to other people, they were like, you guys are crazy.

They wouldn't do that to us.

But you're like, we're not.

You don't understand what's happened to black people.

And so anyway, long story short, at our job it was a requirement.

And if you work in healthcare, you had to get the COVID vaccine.

But I seen a pastor do something that was very remarkable.

He went and said, listen, I want to make a difference.

I'm going to take a step.

I'm going to get the COVID vaccine.

He got the COVID vaccine in front of his whole congregation, and the rest of them followed suit.

And I saw that, and it was very powerful because I said the congregation, they trust their pastor.

And when I saw my pastor do it, I said, well, I trust my pastor.

And he would never lead me wrong.

So I got the COVID vaccine.

And I thought about moving forward, having these conversations about health care.

If a pastor could step out on faith in this instance and trust the health care system and do something of this regard, I thought, well, when it comes to this and what we're trying to do, if we could talk to the pastors and say, hey, this is what we're trying to do to help people, how about we help each other?

And I thought, let's have these conversations.

So that's how I ended up meeting pastor McNeil.

And we started having this pilot group to talk about this program that that we wanted to get started to really bring awareness to these services and these resources to help people.

Not so much.

Well, actually, no, to have a better quality of life because at the end of the day, if we talk about it from a spiritual aspect, God wants us to be happy and have the best life, not settle for less.

And so if we could have services to give somebody hope and give them a better quality of life, why not make that available to them?

And that's how we brought the pastors in.

>> Pastor McNeil, when people see you step up and lead in that way, what have you seen happen?

>> Well, I've seen that the balance of our faith and our belief in God balance and begin to accommodate the systems that we become empowered by, meaning that when we found out that there were systems in place that could help as a pastor, a congregant of mine, as they after they go home now, it not only affects that patient, but it also affects the family that we as a congregation serve.

It affects the ministry.

allegations that that we support them with.

Like for us at New Life, we not only support spiritually, we support in ways that would bring comfort to the family.

As far as the things that we know how to do.

But speaking with Deanna and there and we found out there are many things that a family member might want to do in support of their of their loved one who has just come home from the hospital, but they don't have the capacity to do it because they don't have the training to do it.

And they also did not know that there were benefits that were available to them, that they had freely had access to.

So by making the connection with home health care it just added to what we felt was our overall opportunity to address the well-being of our congregant in every aspect that we could.

undermine.

Excuse me, undergirding their faith in God.

and then also allowing them to experience the reality of hands on you know, assistance that they could build relationship with, that they could find trust in.

Because one of the things that we that helped us really support the system was they brought us into the discussion.

they explained what was available.

They shared with us the same numbers and the same challenges that our community community was facing.

And then we just felt we had an obligation to respond.

And so far, for as far as I could speak, for my experiences, they've been excellent.

the folks that have been able to take advantage of home health care through HCR, as well as it being a portion of what we now address as additional benefits to being a member of New Life is that you have access to this information that we're proud to stand alongside them and offer to to our congregants.

>> It's a remarkable story.

And Phyllis, to me, it looks to me like the the picture of how we got here and what to do is not just one thing.

It's complex.

It starts with decades of disparities that still exist today.

And a couple of things seem to have happened.

Tell me if this diagnosis sounds correct to you.

Number one, the actual treatment of black people vis a vis white people is different.

And there are problems that have to be addressed, even if not intentional.

They are structurally there.

And we see that manifest in a lot of different parts of health care.

So you mentioned you know, maternal health and all kinds of different parts of health care.

So that's been going on then, because that goes on.

Combined with the tuskegee's and, and really other terrible parts of history, the black community at large starts to trust less and question.

And so even when something comes along that is needed and beneficial, like a vaccine, there is a natural resistance or a concern or a lack of trust.

And the outside authorities are like, well, just have your congressman talk to them, listen to the president, you know, as opposed to where who are you going to trust?

And so now you're trying to repair some of the trust by going to the most trusted sources, which might be the pastors of the world, to start to build back those relationships while still trying to get the health care system to clean up its own house.

How is that for a diagnosis?

>> Great.

>> Is that pretty good?

>> Yes it is.

>> I mean, that's pretty accurate.

So.

So how effective do you think the pastor McNeil's of the world can be in repairing trust, which maybe understandably so, has eroded over.

>> The years?

>> I think that absolutely.

I mean, historically for people of color and black community from the beginning in slavery time people went to the church, they went to the pastor.

If he said, do it, they did it because they were the trusted people they heard from God and they trusted and respected that.

so I think that's still the case.

I think that the church over the years has as a whole, universally abdicated the responsibility for engaging people in maintaining good health and resources and learning that over the years that eroded.

So we no longer were speaking to people about their health.

We were getting them ready to go home and have good health.

On the other side.

I think that now we have as education has grown and pastors and leaders in the church are being taught differently and they know better now that atmosphere, they are now just not talking about the spirit part.

They understand that being body, mind and spirit and that we've got to deal with all the other stuff, the physical that's going to impact the the emotional.

And so I think it's absolutely wonderful.

We showed through COVID I'm in ministry.

We had a ministry that we, we transported 500 people down to get COVID shots.

And how we did that, one of the things that we did a big campaign on Facebook where, you know, a lot of people go and all of that with pastors saying, we've done this, we applaud this.

This is what we need to do.

And it works.

People follow that.

A lot of pastors did the I took the thing.

We did the same thing with HIV testing and all of those things.

So it absolutely worked.

I my my concern has always been and it worked during COVID, it will still work.

And so one of the boons for this program is that we can say to the pastors that are willing, pastor McNeil is willing.

He knows it works.

How do we replicate that with all the other pastors?

So even and when we do replicate it, I have no, no doubt that you will continue.

But what happens is in the in the moment, it looks good.

We do it.

We get the input we want, we get the services.

And then over a period of time, what the church tends to do is let it hand it to somebody and say, you take care of this.

And eventually we stop doing the leadership loses kind of the hold over it.

maybe not there, but they no longer have it.

And so after COVID, it was really great.

We had all this church input, pastors, everybody.

But after that, you hear very little else about other health services, about all those other things.

And so it kind of dies down because it's not in the news.

It's the every day.

And so how do we maintain this idea that we need to provide as a faith community?

these services we need to provide these other things to our congregants as a spiritual matter, because health is a spiritual matter.

And so when we buy into that concept, how do we keep that going year round and year after year?

>> What do you think, pastor?

>> I think it has to be systematic, meaning that pastors develop a systematic approach to that issue for us.

I believe the way it's been successful is there is a process.

say, for instance, if a congregant is hospitalized, there's a notification to the church which triggers all of these other steps in response to that particular congregant.

One is a hospital visitation by someone on our ministerial staff.

After that, it's when will they be going home so that we can provide a normal transition that a ministry transition, meaning prayer is involved?

maybe food or other support is involved.

We find out who at home will be waiting for them when they arrive.

Then we also ask the question, is there going to be a need for rehabilitation or anything else that might be outside of my scope as a pastor or our scope as ministry trained ministerial trained folks to cover when that goes outside of our scope, we let them know that there is a system that's in place through HCR, where with a phone call, you could probably get the assistance that you're going to need so that you're you could recover more quickly.

all of the things that are involved in providing stability in that situation, we included in a systematic approach to it.

So it's not just everything falls on the pastors.

I believe the pastors have to build the system so that the process can be supported.

and it just goes back to our desire to see our congregation, the families whole in every area, in some cases, for us, the experience has not only been a benefit for the congregant who was hospitalized, it has also been a great benefit to the family, who was exhausted.

And at the end of their rope and just trying to find support.

They couldn't find it anywhere.

I've my in-laws live in the Georgia area, and they both are in their 90s, and my wife and I went to visit them last year, and they manage everything on their own at home.

They still drive.

I don't know whether that's great, but they do it.

And while we were there, we were wondering how they handle any situations that might come up where they need assistance.

one's 94, the other is 96.

So they're taking care of each other and sometimes it gets difficult.

So while I was sitting there, I started thinking about HCR and how my wife and I being here in Rochester would love that.

There would be some kind of support system in Atlanta in that area that would, on a regular basis, come and provide some of the services that they have to actually drive and leave their home to be involved in.

and I found out that there was nothing there that was similar to the system that HCR had set up where they connected with the community.

Pastors, congregations locally and said, hey, this is what's available.

We'd like to make sure your congregants are aware of it.

so it was a very unique and I think a very unique and very beneficial situation we have in here in Rochester, where HCR has actually reached out to pastors in this community and allowed us the opportunity to provide another benefit to our congregants, because at the end of the day, that's what we're here for, not just to speak to them about their spiritual growth and their understanding and building up of their faith, but also to have a prosperous and, you know, whole life here which includes, you know, from the beginning to the end just enjoying the best that God has to offer.

So I'm very, very appreciative of, of being able to be a part of a program here.

I don't know whether it's a pilot or a beginning.

but we're we're willing to be some of the guinea pigs if we need to to help get it started.

>> What do you worry about most with your in-laws at home?

>> That someone might not be there when needed?

and I know that there's probably coming a time where we'll have to make other decisions.

But now, while they're able to really kind of do some things on their own, it does concern me.

It concerns me that there's no one that's regularly checking on them once a week, twice a week, or whatever it might be.

Just coming into the house, helping them to stay active, helping them to do some of the things that they still love to do.

other than friends or family that they've, you know, that they've actually developed through their church.

>> So Deanna Dudley as someone who is with HCR Home Care, if Atlanta doesn't have exactly what you're building here with this kind of network of support.

I think that's pretty telling.

But for the people who don't get what they need at home, how would you break it down in terms of wanted a service, weren't aware that it existed, wanted a service, didn't think they could afford it or pay for it, or didn't have access at all.

No access, no opportunity.

>> Yeah.

I mean, that's the reason why we keep having these conversations so that people can be aware of these services.

So I mean.

>> So it's a mix of those things.

>> We do have some of those situations.

I mean, there's some people who've never heard of home care ever before.

I mean, I'll be honest with you, before I started working at HCR, I never even knew that home care existed.

And I thought that it was, you know, all private pay.

You had to be rich to have people coming to your home.

Until I started working there and found out that insurance actually covered it.

and I actually had home care myself when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was having some shortness of breath and went to urgent care, thinking I had bronchitis.

And they told me, we're sending you by ambulance to the hospital.

And I'm like, no, I can just drive up the street.

You know, it's no big deal.

And I got there and they told me I had blood clots in both my lungs.

I could barely breathe.

And they went to send me home a couple days later and said, you need to have home care.

And I said, I don't need a nurse.

I am a nurse.

I can take care of myself.

And I argued with them and they said, no, you really should have a nurse.

So I, I thought about it and I said, well, you know, I do work for home care.

Maybe I should just take advantage of it and see what it's about.

And so I said, fine, I'll take a nurse.

And I just said, give me HCR Home Care.

I never told him I worked for the agency, and I had a nurse come in, and you know what?

It was a wonderful experience because actually, the hospital ended up sending me home with medication.

But the medication dosage was different from what the doctor had me on.

So I was taking the wrong dose and the nurse actually caught it and was able to call my doctor and say she's on the wrong dosage of the medication.

And I was on a blood thinner.

And had she not caught that, who knows?

I mean, I probably would have ended up back in the hospital.

And I'm thinking to myself, I'm a nurse.

I should have caught that.

But I was a patient at that point.

I wasn't a nurse in that moment.

And so when you're in your most vulnerable state, you need to have somebody to be another set of eyes to help.

And I'm just grateful that I had that experience.

And my insurance did cover that service.

I didn't have a copay or anything.

It was the easiest thing I did.

And to have somebody come every couple days, check my blood pressure, listen to my heart, listen to my lungs, and to let me know that I was progressing just gave me hope that I was going to get through.

One of which I would call one of the most trying times of my life.

And to just know somebody actually cared and was checking in every week.

It was a great thing.

So I can actually speak to having the services because I've had it before.

>> So I think that story is remarkable.

It's hard to be a patient when you've gone through a lot, right?

Even when you've got the knowledge you do as a nurse.

I see Greg in San Diego.

I'm going to take your phone call on the other side of our break.

Hang there for a second.

Greg got a really good email from Rick that we're going to read here.

But one other point, just that we've got to hit this point that Deanna was making, no matter who you are or what your background is, if your assumption is what our guests are talking about are only for rich people, we're in trouble.

And you're trying to dispel that.

How often do you hear that, pastor?

>> we make sure again, that it's important for everybody to believe that great health is what God intends for us.

So when there are systems in place that we have to become educated on or aware of, we as a church, we have a responsibility to make sure our congregants are made aware of those things.

>> Phyllis.

>> I absolutely agree.

I'm 100% on board.

My my concern, which is I've been in nursing over 50 years.

I did home care for several years.

I started out as a home health supervisor.

Going into the home supervising home health aides.

Then I was a training and then I did home visits as well.

to see patients.

And I love home care.

It's my favorite occupation, the one that I've done that I love the most out of everything that I've done.

and so I know that there has been a lot of misinformation or disinformation out there.

My concern about home care services, especially home health aide services is and nursing services, but specifically home health aide services is the program that HCR has is wonderful.

I think it's really a great program.

But they're one agency.

So my my question is they're one agency and there are millions.

There are hundreds, thousands of people in this community.

How we have to be able to replicate this within other agencies or some way so that if their HCR can't provide this service, you can't do it for everybody.

So how is it that you're working to replicate this or work it with other agencies?

When I worked for HCR, I did it for a number of years, is that there was a program where they had home health aides in the building, and they serviced in senior high rise buildings, and they went they had aides in the building.

Patients knew them, and they went to each one of those patients that were HCR clients in the building.

I love that program.

It eventually went away for, for whatever reason.

But HCR it's a great program.

It needs to be in.

So how do we move this program, which is really great and works well to educate people, to give them power, to give them information and use the churches.

But how do we, everybody doesn't go to HCR.

Everybody.

They have other home care agencies.

So how do we make this available?

Not just for the people that home that HCR services, but what are we going to do with this?

>> Scale it up.

>> Yes.

To to make it workable because you can't handle.

And even with HCR and this great program, they're still is sort of a shortage of home health aide workers.

I mean, we're at almost crisis mode of getting home.

I've had home, I've had five surgeries.

I've had home health aide services.

I've had it for my mother.

I've had it for my brother.

I'm a caregiver.

So I understand the system.

How many times I have not received service because they didn't have, not because of service, because they didn't have the people.

Exactly.

So how do we take this program, which is phenomenal.

And so helpful and move it, as you say, move it up so that it expands, not just for HCR but for other agencies in the in in the city and other people.

>> Wow.

That's a good question.

And actually, I've already had a meeting with the Department of Health in regards to this, so I can't say much more on it.

>> Okay.

You want to break.

>> Any news right here?

>> No, I do not.

I do not, but we have had a meeting with it and it's something that that's in the works.

But I can say is that HCR actually has a monthly home health aide training program, and not everybody that does a training program.

Training program at HCR works at HCR.

So they're being dispersed.

But we do have a monthly home health aide training program.

So they're coming in probably more than I can even count.

So there is things that are happening.

It's probably not maybe so much public knowledge because we have so many different things going on.

There's there seems to be an uptake in a in a shortage of health care workers in general.

And that's one thing that we probably won't be able to solve.

And I and I've come to accept that there's just some things that I may not be able to fix in life.

And I understand that.

But what I can work on is what I can work on, which is this program right here is at least bringing awareness.

And if there's anybody that's watching who has ideas and who has things that they can help with or resources, then that's why we have these conversations to come together, to work together.

Would it be great if all home care agencies picked up this model?

Yes.

But at the end of the day, we're starting with one home care agency, which is who I work for, to start something and to get the ball rolling.

The the point is, everybody has to work together.

It's not a competition.

You know, it's not about, oh, we're trying to bring our attention to us.

It's the simple fact of, I had an idea.

I brought it to Louise and I said, what can we do to make a difference?

I'm somebody who doesn't like to complain, but if I see a problem, either you can be part of the problem or be part of the solution.

I choose to be a part of the latter.

So at this point we're trying to work on things, but you can only take one step at a time.

I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, because I realize that this is kind of like solving world hunger.

I can't, you know, do everything at one time, but.

>> One neighborhood.

>> One community, one church, one congregation.

>> At a time, at a time.

That's my.

That's my motto.

>> I take the point Phillis's point, though.

I mean, certainly the need is there.

So I hope that we can scale it up here.

You want to add something?

>> I think one of the keys to scaling it is to is to be as intentional as HCR has been as far as bringing in the demographic that has been left out.

it's not just about having more programs without connection.

It's important to have the relationship, to build the history, because without trust, you're just another option that I'll never use because I don't know you.

and that's one of the things that hasn't happened.

I've been involved with HCR now for a few years, but I've also been open to any other phone call that I would receive from any other home health care company, and nobody is called and no one is invited.

Pastors that I know of to a forum, the way that they have.

So it's almost like I think this program has to have success for it to be a business model that makes our intentions line up with what we where they should be.

>> After we take this very late, only break phone calls, emails for our guests as we talk about home health care and disparities on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Wednesday on the next Connections with all of the recent confusion about Snap and the concern for Americans who have lost food benefits or don't know if they can feed their families, especially this week with a holiday this week we're going to talk about not only what's going on with Snap, but also what's going on with food pantries, with opportunities.

If you need help or you know someone who does this week, we'll talk about it Wednesday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and this is Greg in San Diego on the phone.

Hey, Greg, go ahead.

>> Hey.

Hi.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

I don't know how often this program exists or where it exists elsewhere in the country, but when an elderly person is discharged from a hospital, there are various paths to go.

Some people who have lots of money can go to a very nice senior living center, or if they need a nursing home, to a nursing home California has a program that is available to those who are whose income is low enough to qualify them for to have a family member whether it be a spouse, a child, or grandchild, to actually live in with that person who may be dealing with a chronic disease but does not want to live in a nursing home, and that caregiver gets paid full time through the moneys of the counties and the state of California.

They figure it's cheaper to do that than to pay the Medi-Cal bills.

For a person going into a nursing home.

>> interesting.

That's not something I was aware of.

Phyllis, have you heard of that?

>> Yes.

We have those services.

>> Oh.

Go ahead, Greg.

>> No, I'm.

I'm a recipient.

I can speak directly to it.

I don't have someone living in with me, but someone comes in 35 hours a week to help support you know, in terms of getting my laundry done, getting to the store to pick up groceries, to accompany me to doctor's appointments.

now that the person doesn't live with me.

But they do get paid by the county of San Diego and the state of California.

it's been around for a very long time, and I'm grateful for that.

It's not perfect, but it it does fill in major gap in terms of post-hospital care.

>> Okay, Phyllis.

>> We do have consumer directed programs here in Rochester and in the state of New York, where the Medicaid program and will pay for family members to take care of other family members.

and there's some legislation that needs it's going to be going around about that consumer directed care.

So we do have that program.

it's not for everybody.

They don't have to live in the home.

And it can't be a wife.

you know, it could be a daughter.

It could be a son.

Okay.

I have a big issue with the fact that the majority of caregivers of older adults, especially, are wives and husbands, and yet they cannot be paid to be the caregiver.

Okay, so controversial.

Yeah, it is, but we do have that program, but it does not meet the need of the majority of the people that require or need home health services.

Yeah.

And it's just for home health aide services.

It is not for any other of the nursing services and skilled services that are needed that are provided by home care.

>> Some of what Greg is talking about there, Deanna you know, literally just needing someone to accompany him to doctor's visits.

sometimes it's laundry and getting things done, as you mentioned.

ambulatory services that might be difficult for people either temporarily or permanently.

Is that within the scope of of some of what you see HCR doing?

>> So not technically.

So we do have home health aides that we do offer some services of that nature.

But primarily we're offering more skilled services like nursing and physical therapy.

>> Okay.

So a couple emails maybe related here.

So Mary, thank you, Greg, for the phone call.

Good luck to you.

Mary emailed to ask what are the qualifications to become a home health aide.

>> So you do have to go through training.

we do offer training at our corporate office here.

It's on Metropark.

I'm out in Henrietta.

they do a criminal background check and they go through.

I think it's like two weeks for training.

they'll go through everything from A to Z, you know, going through compliance.

They'll go through infectious disease.

It's a process.

You have to take a test also, and you have to pass that test.

And they'll do hands on training with you as well.

It's quite extensive, but they have great teachers.

so if they want to apply they can go to HCR Health.com.

>> Okay.

>> H Health.com.

>> Thank you, Mary, for that.

Here's Rick who emailed to say, Evan, I totally understand what your guests are talking about because I was I was responsible for ensuring my parents received the home care they needed during the final years of their lives.

They both passed away in 2023 without the help we received from lifespan, I would not have known about the resources available, especially after my father was hospitalized for several weeks after he fell.

Fortunately, I was ultimately able to get my parents into an assisted care facility and eventually access Medicaid assistance for them.

As a well-educated, middle class professional, I found the system for care to be extremely difficult to navigate, so I often wondered how others who are not as well educated and prepared as I was, are able to navigate the caregiving system.

Your guest, who calls for patient education totally resonates with me.

What do your guests think about using assisted care facilities rather than trying to stay in a traditional home residence?

It's from Rick.

Let me go around the table.

What do you think.

>> Phyllis?

It's great.

We wish we could have everybody go to assisted living facility.

It's just not possible.

And the cost being one of those things.

And.

But to his point about not being able to access the resources that he needed.

one of the things that this program is so good is it brings the resources to the people.

One of the the issues around so many of the struggles that we have racism issues disparity issues is because we want people that have don't have the resources to go and or whatever it's needed to find information.

We want to tell them to go there and get the information.

No, we need to bring the information to them.

And that is key.

People don't know because they don't tell them.

You go to the hospital, the nurse comes in, they have to send somebody in to say, you got to have home care.

Who do you want to get?

Who do you want to choose?

And then, you know, this is what they're going to do for you, or you're going to send a PT, you're going to.

But they after that, to your point, Deanna, they don't.

You get home.

You don't know what they said.

We don't remember.

It's just crazy.

But we need to have this information.

As he was talking about taking to poor people live, work, play.

>> Okay.

>> And pray.

>> Deanna, what do you think Rick's asking about?

What do you think about assisted living versus being at home.

>> So I'm, I'm a fan of when it comes to seniors allowing them to age in place and just being able to be in the comfort and safety of their own home.

It really does wonders.

I mean, my grandparents are in their 80s.

They live in their own home, and they would never want to give up their three bedroom, one and a half bath house to go to a small room.

They have so much stuff, and I wouldn't want to have to help them clean that out.

It's just way too much stuff.

Way too much stuff.

>> Stop it.

>> We do that.

>> For so long.

>> so I'm a I'm a fan of it, but I also understand the need at times when they need to have more assistance.

And if it's not safe to be at home, then I'm a fan of it.

But if you're safe to be in the actual comfort of your home, I'm all for that.

Especially if you have family support.

that can be there regularly to help you and check in, as you were talking about.

When it comes to your in-laws, then that's that's a great option.

But if it's not, maybe they don't have family support.

They can't maintain their home like they used to, and it's not safe.

Assisted living will probably be a better option.

>> Mary followed up to Mary had asked about qualifications to be a home health aide.

She's asking about.

Is there qualification or training for pastors to help their congregations deal with this issue?

So how prepared are you now, pastor, to help your congregation?

>> I think one of the things that helps us is that we meet probably quarterly now to be updated on services that are available through the home health care company that we've been associated with.

In that exchange, we usually give real life situations, from congregants who are experiencing, whether it's post-surgery.

what to expect when we have a patient in mind or a congregant in mind that be planning planning to have surgery.

so there's, there's an exchange that helps us with direction, because what happens on the pastoral side is we're the trusted source for not the medical, but mainly the comfort side of it.

because we teach and we believe and we breathe faith.

So we're believing as we're praying for a complete recovery, for healing in totality.

So if medicine is a part of that, we want to make sure that we are also including all of that in our conversation.

How's your doctors?

You know, are you going to your doctor's appointments?

do you feel comfortable there?

Do you need assistance with someone to go as an advocate?

See, those are the things that we're learning that are becoming more important as our congregations begin to age.

And we need to become more broad in our understanding of what's available to them.

finding out the process that's difficult about filling out forms or having someone there that that understands the things that that maybe 85, 90, you don't understand because of the way it's written and you don't have family support as a pastor.

Now, we're concerned that you have someone there that might understand the system, even if they don't understand the system.

Now, I have an advocate that I can call that I can say, hey, I don't know, but here are these a couple of spots here in Rochester that I can call.

And now we're building relationships so that the system becomes more available to everybody, you know, because, you know, all of the all of the faces kind of know each other.

All of the pieces are beginning to fit.

>> We're down to our last 90s.

So again, if you need help accessing this kind of care, you know someone who really would be a good candidate.

Deanna, what do you want to leave with listeners here?

>> the resources, it's there, it's available.

Take advantage of it.

You won't regret it.

The help is there.

>> How do you find it?

How do they find you?

>> Oh, well, HCR health.com you can go on the website.

The phone number is there.

Call if you have questions.

You might get me.

You might get some other qualified individual to ask questions to.

Even if you just want information about how do I qualify?

I have this situation going on.

You can have a conversation with one of our representatives.

They can talk to you, walk you through it, get you even set up with services if you need it.

>> and about 30s final thoughts from you, Phyllis, for the audience.

>> I come from an age where a village raised families.

Everybody care for each other, and I think that this whole idea that we're talking about with home care needs to be a village now.

It can't be, perhaps like it used to be, but we certainly need to have government involved.

We need to do something about wages and the shortage of health care workers in general, which is going to be, you know, like 900,000 people in the future.

At 30, 35.

The other thing is that we I pushing my buttons that we need to train our clergy.

I've been a proponent for years that when you're going through seminary, they need to have this training on health care.

And how does that fit into ministry and learn these things and have courses.

And then we need to have those that do learn, perhaps set up something to train others offer that training to other clergy in the community because it's a peer.

So I think that's really very important as well to do.

>> And I want to thank Pastor Bernard McNeill, who is kind of walking the walk and showing communities what it is like to have a faith leader who is willing to learn this stuff and help people learn it.

Thank you, pastor, for sharing.

>> You, for having me.

>> Great having you.

He's from New Life Fellowship Church Deanna Dudley HCR Home Care.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you.

>> Phyllis Jackson so great having you.

Thank you for your expertise as well.

This hour from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for watching.

Thanks for listening.

We're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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