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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - (Narrator) New Jersey, home to Bruce Springsteen, Whitney Houston, the world’s best diners, and people who know how to work hard and dream big.

But let’s be clear.

Greatness doesn’t just appear out of thin air, it begins with strong foundations and there’s no foundation more essential than childcare.

Without it, families can’t work.

Businesses can’t grow.

In our economy, well, it grinds to a halt.

Families are being pushed to the breaking point, and so is our economy.

But there is another way forward.

You see, when childcare works, parents work.

When parents work, the economy grows.

When the economy grows, we all thrive.

So let’s get to work together.

Let’s tell Trenton it’s time to start strong New Jersey.

- Hi, everyone, Steve Abubato, an entire half-hour talking about childcare and the economy, it's part of our Start Strong NJ initiative, an initiative that you can see the website as I speak right now, it's a public education, public awareness initiative about affordability, accessibility, and quality childcare, and we're joined by Meghan Tavormina, who's director of public policy and advocacy at New Jersey Association for the Education of Young Children, Molly Day is chief operating officer of Moms First, and finally, Michele Siekerka, president and CEO of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association, I wanna thank all of you for joining us, Michele, let me ask you, connect the issue of childcare, as our new governor, Mikie Sherrill, takes office, to the economy of New Jersey, Michele?

- Well, the business at childcare is everyone's business.

Let's start with a sobering statistic, 3.6 billion dollars of lost earnings, productivity, and revenue in New Jersey alone because of the fact that we don't have enough affordable and accessible childcare.

A place to safely place our children so our workers can come to work each and every day and be productive.

- So Meghan, let me ask you, if you're advising the governor... Meghan, are you on the transition team?

- Yes, I am.

- Yes, you are, as we speak, there's a transition taking place.

As we speak, Governor Elect Mikie Sherrill will be governor on the 20th of January, this will be seen somewhere in-between and again later, but Meghan, let me ask you this, advising the governor on what she would need to do along with the state legislature as it relates to strengthening the childcare situation, vis-a-vis then strengthening the economy as Michele Siekerka just mentioned.

- Yeah, absolutely, I mean, we're doing the work that has been laid out for years now, and so, the issues haven't changed, and we're really just working towards making sure that we create the investment to build the pipeline for childcare.

As Michele mentioned, this is everybody's business, it affects everybody from families to children to the economy as a whole, and so, when we're looking forward into 2026, NJAEYC is really working alongside with Strong to make sure that childcare is robust and it's invested at the level that it needs to be successful to lift up all the other industries in New Jersey.

- Meghan, before I go to Molly, we're gonna put up the Start Strong NJ website, again, you're very much connected to it, tell folks exactly what it is and why it matters.

- Yeah, Start Strong NJ is a great campaign that has been launched, and I'm fortunate enough to sit as one of the co-chairs, and we are really just building the public awareness, as you had mentioned, to create an opportunity for the investment that we know that our state needs to be successful in childcare, and in order to do that, we really need everybody to move from saying that childcare is important to actually making the moves, to making childcare important, and we know that that sits in the investments and systems that are set up to make it successful.

- Well said, Molly, tell everyone what Moms First is.

- Yeah, Moms First, we're a national advocacy organization fighting to ensure that all mothers can thrive, and for us, that means investing in affordable, accessible childcare and paid family leave.

Our mission is to move the conversation from seeing childcare as a personal problem for moms or families to solve, to seeing it as an economic imperative that matters for all of us, for families, for businesses, for the economy.

- Molly, why do you think that's been so hard for so long for so many people in public life who are disproportionately men?

- I think for so long we've been operating on an outdated system that assumes that there is a woman home at 2:30 to pick her child up from school, for a long time, we've really operated on the unpaid labor of women and we haven't invested in the structural changes we need to support the modern family, which for most families means that if there are two parents, both of them need to be in the workforce, and we haven't developed solutions that actually support what it looks like, not just to work a 9:00 to 5:00, but imagine all the hours of folks that work around the clock, we don't have structural childcare solutions to support them, and many of the men in power came up at an era where they had a partner at home, so they didn't face that challenge themself, and I think now, we're starting to see elected leaders who have those own experiences come into office and say, "We have to invest, we have to think bigger."

- Along those lines, I'm gonna put up... I'm gonna have our team put up our website at steveadubato.org, look at the previous interview we actually did with then Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, we asked her about her role in Congress dealing with childcare, and again... And also in the interview that we did with her and her Republican opponent for the gubernatorial... In the gubernatorial election, Jack Ciattarelli We talked about childcare, check out those interviews, but Michele, let me ask you this, with Mikie Sherrill becoming governor and having a strong commitment to childcare on the federal level now on the state, and also, happen to be a mom, a working mom, obviously, the second female to be Governor of New Jersey, she gets it.

What can government do, meaning what can Governor Sherrill and the legislature do, then shift to the role of the business community that you and your team at the New Jersey Business and Industry Association represent, Michele?

- Yeah, I mean, work alongside of us, look, Steve, I was very proud to sit on many of her community panels through COVID, throughout COVID, past COVID, sat on panels with her talking about, at the federal level, her opportunities to shine a light on childcare and the importance of it at the national level, and now, bringing that back here to New Jersey, and I don't wanna leave out, you know, Senator Ruiz, who is a huge advocate and proponent in this space who we've worked alongside of on some legislation, what can we specifically do?

You know, I'm always, like, the three-legged stool, right?

So first of all, we have to lift up and enable the workforce behind childcare because they are unsung heroes and they're often... They themselves are a vulnerable population based upon their own earnings, and so, we need to lift them up by giving them opportunities, be it tax credits, opportunities to have childcare credit just to place their own children, right?

A ways to bring them in, apprentice programs, et cetera, treat them like the educators that they are, not like they're babysitters, that's significantly important, and the second is the entrepreneur who wants to lift up a new center and hire that workforce because there's a major investment that goes into it, we need to work with those entrepreneurs and we need to watch our licensing, our insurance requirements, our mandates on this industry 'cause that drags it down.

- Michele, you're shaking your head, let's talk about childcare centers.

Let's talk about the fact that childcare centers themselves are having a very tough time, you talk about childcare in the economy, what about the economics of leading, running a childcare center, Meghan?

- Yeah, I mean, operating a childcare center across the country, and New Jersey is no different, is complex to say the least, and so, we sit between a couple different categories, we are small businesses, as Michele was alluding to, but we're also educational facilities and we are highly regulated, as we need to be, and we have to operate under really strict ratios, which caps your revenue streams and your opportunities, and so, what all this... - Hold on, Meghan, one second, ratios of childcare professionals to children?

- Right, and even ratios within square footage of your building, and so, it's very mapped out how many tuition opportunities you have within a building, and so, what we know... Well, when you map all of that out, and not to go into the weeds too much of it, what we know is missing is a public investment and it's very easy to see, for the same reason why families can't afford to send their second-grader to school and pay out of pocket, they also can't do it for children birth to age five, there's that same financial gap, and what we need to start looking at in New Jersey is how we can invest in that, both in the state side and the federal side.

- Along those lines, Molly, as Meghan and Michele talk about the economics, again, Michele understands the economics of businesses and trying to provide childcare potentially in their physical space, but also, frankly, creating policies in corporate America, small, medium, large corporations, right, Michele?

Who even if it's not a childcare facility in the location, it's creating policies in the private sector that are supportive, before we go to Molly, again, Michele, corporations, businesses can do that, but there are economics involved there as well, correct?

- Well, absolutely, I mean, the first thing we always wanna do is look at the employer and say, "Make them pay for it, oh, they can afford it, they can do it," Steve, we talk every day how every dollar matters to a business, especially a small and a mid-sized business, right?

So we can, again, bring tax credits and incentives to incentivize companies to either provide onsite childcare or to give stipends to their workforce.

- Okay, but Molly, jump back in because Meghan was just saying we need a public investment, Michele is saying, 'cause she represents thousands of businesses, "Hey, listen, let's put it on the private sector," there's no one solution or the other, it's not just the private sector or government, or a new governor coming in with the legislature, Molly, please.

- Yeah, it's a both/and, we founded four years ago at Moms First, the National Business Coalition for Childcare, because we recognize how important it is to have business at the table as a partner, and we've worked with now over 200 businesses to help them expand childcare benefits to 600,000 employees doing things like Michele said, for everything from an onsite childcare center to things that are far lower lifts, frankly, like stipends, and also setting up free FSA accounts, essentially, for childcare.

- Hold on, the acronyms get tricky, SFA, which are what?

- Like an FSA, so basically, before you're taxed, you can set aside some money into an account to pay for your childcare expenses, and we actually just won legislation in July to increase that from $5,000 to $7,500, so I as a family can now set aside $7,500 into that tax-free account to pay for my childcare cost, so there's a lot... - Hold on, that's federal... - Yeah, sure.

- That's federal?

You're talking about federal...?

- That's federal.

- Okay, so team, let's make sure in post-production, we get the website from Molly so we can put it in so people can find out about, what's it called, FSA?

- Yeah, it's actually... Just to give you one more, DCAP - Flexible Spending Account.

- What's up with government acronyms?

That's all I'm gonna say, okay, that's a different topic, but go back... Molly, go back to the issue of public investment, at a time when Governor Sherrill and the state legislature are gonna deal with a serious fiscal problem, the COVID money, dried up from the feds, money's tight, but this is obviously a priority for Governor Sherrill, but what kind of...?

And to go back to the issue of Senator Theresa Ruiz, check out our website, several interviews we've done with her, she's been advocating for more of a public investment, but what does that mean, Molly?

How much money and where would those dollars go?

- Look, I think a public investment is critical because what we know from research that we've done of employers investing in their own employees, they receive up to a 425% return on investment by investing in childcare benefits.

This is foundational to our ability to uplift our workforce and move forward, and we really believe that the business community and public sector have to come together to do it, because you know what we hear from incredible businesses leading the way investing in their employees?

They say, "I cannot throw enough money at this myself, we need a collective effort," and especially when you think about small businesses, they're not in the same position as a Fortune 500 to make those types of investments, and we need smart solutions to bring them in, enable them to do something like the tax credits Michele mentioned, but also really meet them halfway with public investment because we're not going to get there alone by employer-by-employer expanding to their own employees.

- We're talking about childcare and the economy, everyone talks about affordability, these childcare issues are all about affordability, we are talking to three experts in the field who deal with childcare and the economics of childcare every day and the impact on the larger economy, this is part of the Start Strong NJ... The website is up right now, Start Strong NJ initiative, public awareness about affordability, accessibility and quality childcare, we'll take a quick break, come back and keep talking about childcare and the economy.

- To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Welcome back.

I'm Steve Adubato.

This is a conversation about childcare and the economy.

I wanna pick up this question, we'll go back to the economics in a second, but the, and the issue of brain science and very early childhood issues, Megan, you understand this, what exactly is brain science and what does it have to do with the kind of childcare we're talking about?

- It has everything to do with the kind of childcare that we're talking about, Steve.

We have an opportunity in the first five years of a child's life to really mold the way that they're going to grow and learn with the opportunities ahead of them.

And when we miss those first five years, we pay for it for the rest of their educational life.

And so what we have to remember is that if we're, childcare is a very much an economic conversation, that is what we're talking about today.

But not recognizing the investments in quality to maximize on this brain development is also an economic conversation because you pay for it when you, when a child is a void of high quality opportunities in those first five years.

There's so much science out there in research, which I won't go into, but you're hard pressed to find somebody to say that the first five years don't matter in how a child develops long term.

- Okay.

And by the way, I'm gonna, there are some people watching right now say, oh, you're talking about pre-K, Michele, let me ask you this.

Pre-K, because there was a very strong initiative around pre-K people can check it out, that's not exactly what we're talking about.

We're talking about the first 1000 days from pregnancy to age two.

Connect that, Michele, the economics of all that, because pre-K, important, early childhood, first 1000 days, important, long-term issues that Megan just talked about as it relates to brain science impact on that child, that family and the economy.

Michele.

- Yeah, at NJBIA, we talk every day from workforce development is being cradle to grave.

And that's exactly, exactly the point.

It all articulates Steve, right?

So the strongest of the foundation you can have from those first 1000 days takes you into a strong pre-K foundation, takes you into a strong K 12, takes you into a strong post-secondary, and then you go on to a lifelong learner to continue to build your skills.

But when you're weak at the beginning, you're not catching up later.

- Okay.

Molly, let me ask you this.

I often wonder, there's From your perspective, what has been the impact of the decisions made in Washington as it relates to childcare and the economy of New Jersey?

Or is that a non-issue?

- It's absolutely an issue.

We've seen, since the drop off in federal funding that came during the pandemic, so there are federal funds given to states during the pandemic to keep the childcare system afloat, those have now stopped.

We have seen a plateau in the number of childcare centers reopening.

We lost so many during the pandemic.

And we've also seen at the same time, childcare continue to outpace inflation and costs going up to now more than 19,000 per child in New Jersey.

- Hold on.

$19,000?

- Yes.

- Per child?

- Yes.

- On average?

- On average.

Which is more- - Some cases higher?

- Than in-state tuition, yes, that's correct.

- Pick up that point.

- Yeah and that is completely unaffordable for families.

We hear from moms every day.

They are priced out of parenthood.

We get stories many from parents in New Jersey who say, I want to have more children and I cannot afford to send more children into our childcare system.

Or we hear from moms who have said, I now am out of the workforce.

I would like to be working, but my salary is less than it costs to put my child in childcare so it doesn't make sense.

And just this year, we've actually seen almost half a million women drop out of the workforce.

That has erased the gains we've made since COVID because women are stepping back in their careers because they cannot afford childcare.

And that has a huge impact on our economy when women are roughly 50% of our labor force.

So yes, Steve, the lack of investment from the federal, from the federal government is having massive implications for all states in New Jersey among them.

- Let's be even more specific.

Molly talks about the negative impact of 500,000 women, not in the workforce in large part because the cost, the economics of childcare.

Fair to say, Molly?

- Yes, correct.

- Okay.

Megan and then Michele.

What is, I hate using the term trickle down.

What is the longer term impact of that?

To not just the economy, but to the quality of life in the state of New Jersey?

Molly?

Excuse me, Megan.

- Yeah, it's huge.

I mean, if you look, if we really continue on this path, we know that there, it's going to reshape the way that businesses can operate and their productivity.

We also know that it's gonna reshape the educational opportunities for children.

If there's- - How?

How?

I'm sorry for pushing, but how, help people understand how?

- Well, as we spoke about before, you have one shot at those first five years.

And as you had mentioned, it's even more significant in those first two years.

And so when children don't have those high quality opportunities, and even worse off when a family isn't stable because of their other affordability triggers, those create trauma informed opportunities for those children in a negative (indistinct).

And so children, whether they're, they'll lose double because they won't be in high quality childcare opportunities, but they'll also have negative opportunities at home from that stress.

And you'll play catch up on that for the rest of that child's life.

And so that is really, that's the impact on the children.

We're also seeing this, we're talking so much about literacy and the gap in literacy.

Those skills for those third graders to be able to meet those literacy rates, those happen in early education.

All of those skills that they need happen in early ed.

And so when we take that away, we're going to be paying into our educational system even more to catch up.

And then the economics on the business end, when you pull women out of the workforce, we're going to, as Molly said, we're cutting our labor participation in half.

And today's economy, especially in New Jersey with the cost of living, it requires dual income households in order to survive.

And so you're going to have a lot of instable families, a lot of unstable children, and a less productive economy.

- So Michele, you, the Business and Industry Association, your members are across the board.

We happen to be one of your members, you're one of our media partners.

We have a team at any time from eight to 10 full-time professionals, mostly women, one young man.

All involved in one way or another.

Not all, most, in childcare issues, meaning childcare responsibilities.

Now, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's easier for us as a small organization to pivot and make decisions to be flexible and helpful to our top level professionals.

What is the long-term impact when an organization can't and or doesn't do what needs to be done to have talented, disproportionately moms, but also dads, who have childcare responsibilities, but the organization, the corporation, the business can't and or won't provide those options, the flexibility, the economics, all of it, Michele?

- Well, let me say, we always start with the fact that the businesses that we stand for each and every day know their workforce well and work very closely with their workforce.

And that's why we get really, really frustrated with continual mandates, you know, on our job creators, on how they should run their business.

So you just gave a great example, right?

You're a small size business who knows your workforce, and you know how to provide the flexibility when you have, when you have childcare challenges- - Excuse me, Michele, and we know we'll lose the talented people if we don't do that.

To pick up your point.

- Exactly.

Well, that's the imperative, right?

But, but everybody looks at business and immediately just chastises them and say they don't care about their workforce.

I see how they care about their workforce each and every day.

Now, I wanna come back to another economic imperative here though.

Let's talk about the mom herself.

Let's talk about the woman herself who's being pulled out of her career, okay?

What happens to her?

Here's where issues of pay disparity come in, right?

'Cause she has to pull out for five or 10 years or whatever.

Now she's coming back in.

She's certainly not gonna come back in and just command the salary that she left times 10 years coming back into the workforce.

So you just impacted her earning capacity, her trails up.

We see all the time in our companies, our larger companies in particular, where women are great at the front end and they're making their way up the ranks, and then when you get to the higher levels of senior management, 'cause they pulled out for a few years, right?

Coming back in can be challenging.

And they self-select out as well because of all the issues that these ladies talked about today.

So don't forget about the mom and her career path and what's fair to her as well.

- Yeah, as we wrap up, let's put up the website again for Start Strong NJ.

This is an important public awareness initiative about childcare, childcare and the economy.

Childcare and brain science, if you will.

Childcare and affordable, accessible, quality childcare and the long-term implications, not just for that child, not just for that family, for the state and the nation.

Along those lines, last thing I wanna say is this.

We talked about Governor Sherrill.

as congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, I'll never forget I asked her, we were talking, asked her a question about childcare and the challenges that she has faced and also her work in Washington on this.

And she said, "Steve, very simply, our family was fortunate.

If we were not able to afford childcare for our four children, I never would've been able to run and serve in Congress."

Therefore, she would not be governor today.

I mean, it's just, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

And we'll talk to, then congresswoman, now, soon to be governor as we're doing this program, Mikie Sherrill, about a whole range of issues in an in-depth half hour interview talking about her not only first 100 days, but the many days after that and what her agenda will be.

And I guarantee you, the childcare discussion will be a big part of that.

To Megan, to Molly, and to Michele, I cannot thank you enough for joining us to talk about childcare and the economics of it, childcare and the economy.

I'm Steve Adubato, thank you so much for joining us.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

The North Ward Center.

RWJBarnabas Health.

PSEG Foundation.

Kean University.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Newark Board of Education.

And by Delta Dental of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by Insider NJ.

And by NJBIZ.

The North Ward Center continues to expand their services and outreach in Newark, from the childhood years to the golden years, Offering programs like preschool, youth leadership development, Casa Israel Adult Medical Day program our Family Success center, as well as a gymnasium.

And most recently Hope House, a permanent home for adults with autism, supporting and nurturing our autism community with Hope House 2 coming soon.

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