>> INVESTIGATIONS FROM THE CIVILIAN OFFICE OF POLICE, ACCOUNTABILITY OR COPA AND THE COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ARE BEING CONDUCTED TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE POLICE OFFICERS VIOLATED CONDUCT POLICIES IN THE FATAL SHOOTING OF DECKS TO READ.

JOINING US NOW WITH MORE, OUR ARTHUR G O A PROFESSOR OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND PSYCHOLOGY AT LOYOLA UNIVERSITY.

CHICAGO AND SHARON FAIRLEY A UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO LAW PROFESSOR WHO PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OF THE INDEPENDENT POLICE REVIEW AUTHORITY, THE AGENCY RESPONSIBLE FOR POLICE MISCONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS FROM THAT POSITION.

SHE ALSO HELPED CREATE AND BUILD CHICAGO'S CIVILIAN OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY ABILITY.

WE SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT WE INVITED THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE, BUT THEY HAVE YET TO ART AND SHARON, I THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

I WANT TO START WITH I WANT TO START WITH YOUR INITIAL REACTIONS.

AND THEN OF COURSE, WE'LL GET INTO OR A SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.

OUR FIRST QUESTION TO YOU WAS YOUR INITIAL REACTION OF WHAT WE SAW YESTERDAY.

>> A LOT OF A VERY IMPORTANT ARE VARIATIONS YOUR GUESTS.

THEY WERE RAISING THE SAME KINDS OF QUESTIONS I WOULD RAISE.

I WANT TO KNOW WHY A TACTICAL UNIT WAS ENGAGED PATROL ACTIVITIES RELATED TO TRAFFIC VEHICULAR VIOLATIONS.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS OTHER THAN THE REPORTED SEAT BELT VIOLATION PUT THEM AND STATE OF HYPER VIGILANCE AND AGGRESSIVENESS.

I I DID NOT IN THE VIDEO.

ANY ATTEMPTS TO DE-ESCALATE THE SITUATION TO SET THE STAGE FOR THE STOP TO INFORM THE YOUNG MAN WHY HE WAS BEING STOPPED.

AND TO BACK AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE TO PREVENT PERHAPS REDUCE THE TENSION.

YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN FEELING.

ROUNDED BY POLICE WHO DREW THEIR ONE HE'S GONE ON THE WINDSHIELD.

WE DEFINITELY WILL.

>> WE DEFINITELY WANT TO GET INTO SOME OF THOSE MORE SPECIFICS AS WELL.

BUT BRIEFLY, SHARON, FAIRLEY WANT TO GET YOUR REACTION.

YOUR INITIAL REACTION AS WELL.

SURE.

WELL, OF COURSE, THE VIDEO IS JUST INCREDIBLY TRAGIC AND HEART-WRENCHING ON BECAUSE THERE'S A LOSS OF LIFE AND IT'S IT'S REALLY HARD TO WATCH.

>> UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT AGAIN, THAT THE INCIDENT, THERE'S JUST A LOT GOING ON.

AND AS THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT ARE BAY, WHERE IS AND OF COURSE, THAT'S WHAT INVESTIGATIONS ARE GOING TO TRY UNCOVER AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE VIOLATIONS OF POLICY ALONG WITH REGARD TO THE WAY THE OFFICER CONDUCTED THEMSELVES.

AND OF COURSE, JUST LOOKING AT THE VIDEO, THE VIDEO ITSELF WAS NOT GOING TO GIVE ALL THOSE ANSWERS.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE FULL INVESTIGATION.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT NOT TO RUSH TO JUDGMENT HERE, BUT TO LET THE INVESTIGATION PLAY THEMSELVES OUT.

BUT THEY'RE STILL NONETHELESS, A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO BE >> AS WE KNOW, AND AS WE'VE MENTIONED SEVERAL TIMES, 4 POLICE OFFICERS FIRING 96 ROUNDS AND APPROXIMATELY 40 SECONDS.

IT CAN YOU TELL CAN YOU SAY WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS EXCESSIVE AT THIS POINT IN THE INVESTIGATION?

ARTHUR?

>> YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT POLICE OFFICERS STATE OF MIND.

THAT MISTER REID WAS POSING A THREAT.

IF HE INDEED FIRED FIRST AND INJURED A POLICE OFFICER, THEN THERE'S JUST CAUSE FOR RETURNING UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES LAWFUL USE OF FORCE.

HOW DO WE QUANTIFY SUCCESS THE KINDS OF WEAPONS THAT OFFICERS HAVE REQUIRES.

A COUPLE OF POLLS OF THE TRIGGER TO RELEASE NUMEROUS ROUNDS.

HE SAID THESE ARE REVOLVER TYPE WEAPONS.

AND SO THE POLICE BEING AT A HEIGHTENED DEGREE OF OF SENSITIVITY AND THRIVE ARE NOT GOING TO BE MAKING.

KIND OF THOUGHTFUL DECISIONS ABOUT LONG THEY SHOULD HOLD THE TRIGGER DOWN TO RELEASE THE ROUNDS.

THAT'S NOT THE PART OF THE BRAIN THAT'S OPERATING AT MOMENTS.

IT'S A PART OF THAT'S RESPONDED TO THE THREAT.

AND SO NOT MAKING CONSIDER DECISIONS ALONG THOSE LINES.

>> SHARON, MANY PEOPLE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE BASIS FOR THIS STOP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

ACCORDING TO POLICE, IT WAS PREPARED REPORTEDLY FOR NOT WEARING A SEATBELT.

I'M IN A CAR WITH SOME VERY TENTATIVE WINDOWS.

DOES THIS INITIAL RESPONSE FROM POLICE AS THEY APPROACHED READ?

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> SO IT'S NOT IT'S ACTUALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE CONSTITUTION.

THERE'S A THERE'S A CASE THAT SAYS IT'S OK FOR POLICE TO STOP SOMEONE FOR A TRAFFIC VIOLATION.

EVEN WHEN THE STOP THEY'RE REALLY INTERESTED BECAUSE THEY THINK SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS IS GOING ON WITH THAT PERSON THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL.

KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT POLICE TO BE MAKING THOSE KINDS OF PRETEXTUAL STOPS IS WHAT THEY'RE CALLED.

IS ANOTHER QUESTION.

AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO ME THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS IT GENERATED THEIR INTEREST IN THIS PARTICULAR CAR PERSON VEHICLE THAT MADE THEM STOP?

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I'M ASKING IS WHEN THE PERSON WITH MISTER TO, YOU KNOW, DECLINED TO, YOU KNOW, START.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS ROLLING HIS WINDOW UP AND WAS NOT DOES.

WAS DISOBEYING THEIR ORDERS ABOUT THE WINDOW.

WASN'T THE CORRECT RESPONSE.

ACCORDING TO POLICY AND TRAINING TO ACTUALLY THREATEN HIM WITH WITH DEADLY FORCE POINTING A WEAPON OR DID THAT ESCALATE THE SITUATION UNNECESSARILY?

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CPD POLICY SAYS IS THAT.

WHEN THE WHEN CONSIDERING THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES OR AN INCIDENT LIKE THIS, THEY WILL CONSIDER WHAT LED TO THE ENCOUNTER.

WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CONDUCT OF THE OFFICERS WERE THAT LED TO THE NEED TO USE FORCE.

AND SO THAT WILL BE CONSIDERED.

AND THAT WILL BE PART OF THE INVESTIGATION.

>> WELL, IT INTO THAT YOU MENTION, SHARON, YOU KNOW, READ CAN BE HEARD ON THE VIDEO SAYING I'M TRYING WHEN OFFICERS ARE SHOUTING AT HIM TO, YOU KNOW, TO OPEN THE DOOR BECAUSE INITIALLY HE ROLLED THE WINDOW DOWN AND THEN BACK UP AND HE SAYS, I'M TRYING THE OFFICERS DEMANDING THAT HE UNLOCKED THE DOOR AND OPEN IT IN THAT INSTANCE, THOUGH, IF HE APPEARS TO BE NOT COMPLYING, YOU KNOW HOW OR OFFICERS TO RESPOND IN THAT INSTANCE.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THAT'S A QUESTION THAT THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE ASKED AS PART OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

I I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC POLICY AROUND BUT I'M SURE THERE'S GOING TO BE TRAINING AROUND THAT BECAUSE THIS CAN'T BE THE FIRST TIME THAT'S EVER HAPPENED.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A QUESTION THAT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO ANSWER.

>> ARTHUR, WHAT WHAT KIND OF THOUGHTS COME INTO FOR OFFICERS?

WHAT ARE WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT THEY'RE WEIGHING WHEN THEY HAVE TO REACT FAIRLY QUICKLY AT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE'S NOT COMPLYING WITH THEIR ORDERS AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THAT PERSON IS A THREAT.

>> WE HAVE TO MANY CASES INSTANTANEOUSLY.

AND SO TRAINEE WOULD ALSO HAVE INVOLVE A LOT OF SIMULATIONS OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO THAT COULD BE REPEATED PRACTICE FOR HOW TO RESPOND.

LOWERING OF THE VOICES CALLED FOR WEAPON IN THE MANNER THAT THEY DID GOING RATCHET TENSION IN THE SITUATION NOT FOR THE CIVILIAN, BUT ALSO FOR THE OFFICERS.

THE OFFICERS ARE BECOMING VERY TENSE BY THE VERY FACT THAT THEY HAVE A GUN THEIR HAND.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THINK THAT OFFICERS ARE DRAWING THEIR THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

MAYBE TACTICAL OFFICERS PROBABLY DO IT MORE MORE PATROL OFFICERS BUT HAVING THE GUN IN HAND, HE'S HAVING AN EFFECT ON THE OFFICER NIGHT.

THE THE CIVILIAN.

>> AND SHARON, WE'VE GOT JUST A COUPLE OF SECONDS LEFT, BUT WE'VE ONLY SEEN THE VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT DOESN'T SHOW THE ENTIRE PICTURE.

WHAT ELSE ARE INVESTIGATORS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT IN JUST A FEW SECONDS?

>> YEAH.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT ALL THE BALLISTICS EVIDENCE.

IT'S GOING TO BE ANALYZED.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE RESULT.

AGAIN, LIKE YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, THE GUN RESIDUE, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, DID HE ACTUALLY FIRED HIS THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO LEARN WHETHER HE DID FIRE SPURS, WHO BARBERS.

AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF IMPORTANT FACTS TO BE CONSIDERED HERE.

NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE DISPOSITIVE, RIGHT?

EVEN IF HE DID FIRE FIRST, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW THAT.

THAT'S THE ANSWER.

AND THE OFFICERS WE'RE RIGHT IN RESPONDING WITH DEADLY FORCE BECAUSE DEVELOP THE SITUATION NEEDS TO THAT IN ITS ENTIRETY.