[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're joined once again by our good friend, Linda Schwimmer, who is President and CEO of the New Jersey Healthcare Quality Institute.

Their website is up.

Linda, good to have you with us again.

- Thank you so much, Steve.

Good to be back.

- You wrote an op-ed piece I wanna jump on, follow up on, together with Heather Howard, the former head of the department of edu- Excuse me, Department of Health in the state who's down at Princeton right now, and Eddy Bresnitz.

Interesting piece on a lot of levels, but the thing I took away from it is that there's tremendous confusion right now in the minds of the public about vaccine policy, things coming out of Washington, RFK Jr., Trump administration, and things being said in the state of New Jersey, and also with the new governor, Mikie Sherrill.

Who the heck are people supposed to go to get the right information, please, Linda?

- Steve, that is a great question, and I think that is one of the main reasons why Heather and Eddy and I wrote that op-ed.

Right now, the way it works in New Jersey is the state is tied to the CDC.

So if the state wants to make any kind of- - Centers for Disease Control.

- That's right, so if the state wants to make any kind of requirements, let's say, for kids to be able to go to daycare, school camp, or requirements on health insurance companies to require payment, it's all tied to CDC recommendations.

And the problem with that is exactly what you just said.

There's a lot of confusion coming out of DC.

Unfortunately, a lot of the things coming out of DC are not based on decades of evidence and science.

And so what we were calling for was really, we have to untie our state to the CDC and to be able to have that flexibility to look towards other science-based, trusted, reliable organizations to guide that healthcare or to guide that vaccination advice and requirements here in New Jersey.

- Linda, if Florida is doing what it is doing through Governor Ron DeSantis and saying, "Not required, vaccines not required for kids anymore," right?

And New Jersey has a very different policy, but people are moving back and forth and flying Florida to New Jersey, New Jersey to Florida, and all the places around the country.

What the heck happens then?

- It is a mess.

So what the heck happens and what can we do as parents, as community members, and as people in public health to really just protect as many people as possible?

It's to follow the science and to make sure that we're giving access to vaccines and that people know the evidence that we've got trusted messengers and people are getting vaccinated.

That's what New Jersey is trying to do.

We joined a coalition of a bunch of other northeast states to continue to look at the science, to put together recommendations, and then public health communications for folks, because if people are vaccinated, even if they're exposed to measles or COVID or the flu, they have a much better chance of preventing getting any of those diseases, and they have a much better chance of avoiding hospitalizations or life-threatening illness.

And that's really what the vaccines are trying to do, to avoid hospitalizations, life-threatening illness, and death.

That's really why we get vaccinated.

- Linda, what's the danger of losing our trust?

And the graphic will come up, trust in public health.

- Yeah.

- What's the danger in your mind of people losing trust in our public health system A and B. You use the word science a lot.

There are a significant number of folks out there who believe that science is a matter of opinion.

And where you can find your own science based on the algorithm on your phone.

A, what's the problem when and if we lose, well, we are losing trust.

Many are losing trust in public health.

Public health system.

- Yeah.

- And B, thinking that science is a matter of politics and opinion.

- Yeah, all right, so we'll start with A.

- Sure.

- You know, one of the ways that we can build trust is by divorcing this from politics and to just be clear about what we know and what we don't know and what the purpose is for whatever the public health recommendation is, whether it's vaccines, whether it's a mask, whether it's cohorting, whatever it is.

Just to level with people.

People know when you're a straight shooter.

And so that's really important.

I think another thing that's really important is having a connection to somebody within the healthcare system that you trust.

It could be a doctor, a nurse, a clinic, a regular place to go to get care where you know that the folks there have your best interests at heart.

You and I have talked a lot in the past about primary care, and I think that is one of the real critical issues here.

We need to continue to support primary care, to invest more and to make sure that people have access to a place to go for ongoing care, so that then they can have that relationship with their doctor or nurse.

And if they've got really valid concerns or questions or a neighbor or something they saw on TikTok, whatever it is, that they're not gonna be belittled, but somebody will walk through and explain it to them.

And maybe there's a couple options for how you time or pace the vaccinations.

Those are all important questions to have and to explain things.

So it's that trust.

That's really what I'm getting at with your first question.

- Okay, let me just real quick, got a minute left.

Disabuse folks of this.

RFK Jr.

heads up public health in this nation has talked a lot about vaccines and autism.

He says it's unclear.

More research needs to be done.

Help folks understand what the science says about vaccines, MMR vaccine and autism.

- Sure.

- What does it tell us?

- So I'll be very clear that I am not an epidemiologist or a medical professional.

I'm a health policy professional.

But that's why I wrote that op-ed with Heather and with Eddy who was the state epidemiologist and is a physician as well.

- What does Eddy say?

- All of the evidence out there says that these vaccines, these childhood vaccines are safe.

There's no evidence that they're causing autism.

And the risks of children avoiding getting vaccines are great.

Childhood vaccines have saved untold millions of lives over the past 50 years.

And it is critical that New Jersey's children continue to get vaccinated, and if parents have concerns, they should talk to their pediatricians about this.

Pediatricians are there to have these conversations with parents, - Linda Schwimmer, President and CEO of New Jersey Health Care Quality Institute.

Linda, thank you once again for helping us better understand.

We appreciate it.

- Sure, thank you.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

EJI, Excellence in Medicine Awards.

A New Jersey health foundation program.

Kean University.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

Johnson & Johnson.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

United Airlines.

And by The Fund for New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by Meadowlands Media.

And by NJ.Com.

- (Narrator) This holiday season, the Community Food Bank of New Jersey the state's largest anti-hunger, anti-poverty organization, together with the hundreds of food pantries, soup kitchens and nutrition programs it serves is calling on all of us to unite.

Unite to end hunger.

Together we can make the holidays brighter for our New Jersey neighbors in need and help build a food secure future for our state.

New Jersey, now is the time.

Unite to end hunger.