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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

Every year, we bring together excellent educators, educators who are making a difference every day, excellence in education.

Here are those educators.

Ariel Babcock is a social studies and media teacher, Hudson County Teacher of the Year.

Congratulations, Ariel.

- Thank you.

- Your colleague, Ian Evans, 7th grade literacy teacher and the Somerset Teacher of the Year.

Congratulations, Ian.

- Thank you so much.

- And finally, Martha Hickson, a high school librarian and the 2022 National Coalition Against Censorship Outstanding Librarian.

Congratulations, Martha.

Martha, you act like you didn't know that.

- No, I knew it.

I knew it.

I just haven't heard it in a while.

(chuckles) - It sounds pretty good.

Thank you all for joining us talking about excellence in education.

Ariel, let me ask you this.

Define what excellence in teaching and education looks like in 2023.

- I, that's a great question.

2023 is really important because excellence in teaching really involves getting to know your students in the world that they're growing up in today.

We're preparing students not for jobs and careers in a world that you grew up in or even I grew up in.

We're preparing our students to grow up in tomorrow's future.

So it's important that we teach the students about relevant skills that they're going to be using today and in the future.

- Along those lines, Ian, let me ask you this.

And Martha, you've faced a whole range of, you and your colleagues, librarians in schools, incredible challenges.

The book banning efforts on the part of some, censorship for others.

We'll get to that in a moment.

But Ian, from your perspective, promoting social justice and equity, what does it really mean to you and how does it play itself out in your teaching?

- So what I'm thinking about when I'm thinking about social justice and equity is, you know, as a literacy teacher, and librarians can speak to this too, just like who students see as being readers and writers, right?

So like, the idea of representation matters.

The idea that, you know, I need books by Black authors about Black topics.

I need books by LGBTQ authors about LGBTQ topics.

And both that I need to be able to show my students those stories so that they can see themselves represented in the literary world, but also so that I can say like, "Look, these are the luminaries, these are the leaders who we should all be learning from," right?

Like, so it's not just for my LGBTQ students who can benefit from reading LGBTQ stories.

It's about, you know, how can CIS students, how can heterosexual students understand like the complexities of sexuality and gender and race and everything that exists within our society so that they can better, you know, understand their peers, that they can better understand themselves, and so that they can see that these are topics worth talking about and that need to be talked about.

- So Martha, listening to your colleague and listening to Ian, here's the question that obviously cries out to be asked.

Ian's talking about getting access to literature that matters, and let's call some of that very relevant but controversial in the eyes of some.

So some people say, "You know what?

I don't want you teaching that.

I don't want you involved in critical race theory.

I don't want you promoting or putting out there, forget about promoting, exposing students to sex education related material regarding the LGBTQ+ community.

Get that book out of there!

Get that literature out of there!"

You say what to that, Martha?

- Well, I say as a librarian, a library is a center for voluntary inquiry.

That means the users of a library get to choose what they want to read.

And as Ian was saying, he was sort of singing from the librarian's hymnal, a librarian seeks to build a diverse collection that represents their community.

So I can understand if an individual reader or even the parent of an individual reader doesn't want to read a particular book, and that's their prerogative, they don't have to read it.

And if a parent doesn't want their child to read a particular book, they can have a conversation with the librarian.

And we can actually use our library technology to make a note in the student's record to say that the parent requests the student not read this book.

- What if it's in the curriculum?

I'm sorry for interrupting.

What if it's in the curriculum and the teacher is saying, "This is a required reading for this course."

And the parent's like, "Hey, wait a minute.

No, no, no, no, no, I don't want..." Opt out means what in real life?

Not in theory, in real life.

What does it mean?

- In real life, I see it every year.

This is my 18th year in my high school as a librarian.

- Thank you.

Thank you for your service.

- (laughs) Thanks.

And every year when say, "Catcher in the Rye" comes up, there are generally, you know, a handful, maybe one or two in a cohort of students where the parents prefer that their student did not read that book.

And in that case, they don't read that book.

They are given an alternate assignment that they can read another novel alongside their class.

So it's all about communication from the parent's point of view.

Rather than marching into a board meeting with a posse to string up a teacher or librarian, have a conversation.

And we can probably reach a compromise that achieves both our goals.

- Before I go to back to Ariel, Martha, help us on this.

You have been called by some a pornographer, a pedophile.

You've had threatening letters, emails, okay.

Usually people hide behind things, so I'm not sure if they identify themselves.

And you are worried on some level about personal safety.

Is that fair?

- That's fair.

- Ariel, is that what educators and librarians signed up for?

- No, it's definitely not.

What we signed up for was helping kids learn the skills to think and come up with their own thoughts.

I think there's a big misconception that teachers and librarians are teaching our young people what to think, when really, is the goal is we're helping them learn how to think, how to come up with their own opinions.

And that's why it's so important to expose them to texts of different topics, of different themes.

Because that's how you develop your own opinions.

That's why you're not parroting what adults are saying.

You're coming up with your own thoughts and your own beliefs.

- Part of what we do, Ian, in our broadcast, tied to our colleagues in public broadcasting is to try to get through the clutter, the noise, the disinformation and have a real conversation about facts.

How dare we?

So that being said, for those who argue, hold on!

Mr. Evans, you are promoting an LGBTQ+ agenda.

Further, we are asking five, six, seven, eight-year-olds, are you a boy or a girl?

You don't have to identify either way.

You could pick what you want, and say you're neither, non-binary, whatever.

And that some will argue, please respond to this, Ian, that it's premature in many cases, inappropriate in others because it's not the role of the schools.

And Governor Ron DeSantis is one of the most outspoken on this.

That's not your place, obviously, I'm not saying that.

The argument is it's not your place, Mr. Evans.

It is mine as a parent.

You say what?

- So when I'm thinking about that argument, right?

One of the things that I think about is how, you know, we're talking about the facts.

So what the facts kind of show is that, you know, already as young as three, kids start understanding things about themselves, about their sexuality, about their gender identity, about who they are.

- Three.

- About people.

- Yeah, three.

So when I'm thinking about, you know, there's this misconception that like, we are exposing them to something, and like, so they might not not have the language or words to define it, but like that idea of like, oh, I'm different, right?

And I don't quite know how I'm different but like, the part of living and part of figuring out who you are is figuring out like, how that is and how you want to, how would you like other people to refer to you?

How would you, how can other people kind of honor you in this world, right?

And so when I think about like, particularly in the literacy perspective, when we're talking about things like the access of books, right?

You know, when people can see that there are NB authors, non-binary authors that exist or trans authors that exist and who are writing stories for young people, right?

The idea is that like, wow, like there's someone like me who's doing this, right?

Like that's the beauty of representation, right?

It's the idea, it's not, so it's the idea of like, I'm not alone.

Like there's other people like me who are doing this thing.

And so like, I think that sometimes the misconception is like that concept that there is some sort of agenda, like some sort of ulterior motive or some sort of like exposure thing that like this wouldn't be happening if it weren't the case.

But the truth of the matter is, is that, you know, trans people, non-binary people have existed for decades, for centuries, right?

And, you know, if we're thinking about two-spirit folks or if we're thinking about, you know, other communities that have broader understandings of gender and gender identity- - Ian, I'm gonna cut you off because one of the things I don't have the luxury of is more time.

So I'm gonna get back to, I'm gonna, I'll promise I'll come back to you.

So, Martha, help us understand something in light of what Ian's saying, disinformation, misinformation, confusion, and also the role of the media in all this, where is the place for the school librarian in helping young students gain the critical thinking skills to be able to figure out, hey, wait a minute?

January 6th, a demonstration and a protest, peaceful?

I heard that somewhere, but I'm looking at something that doesn't comport with that.

Point being, how the heck do we teach younger people through our schools, through librarian community books, et cetera, and our curriculum teachers?

- Well, Steve, people are gonna think that I paid you to ask that question 'cause it's the perfect question for a librarian.

- Well, I don't know the answer.

I don't know how you break through it.

- Well, I am proud to say that New Jersey just became the first state in the union to require K to 12 information literacy instruction.

So starting with kindergarten, going all the way through graduation, that will be part of the curriculum, and librarians are at the heart of it.

I'll tell you what I'd do.

In fact, I commented to your producer that I've been teaching all day.

I was working with- - Yeah, you've been talking to Georgette, which is why I've got such great information.

(Martha laughs) What did you tell her?

So please share that with us.

- Sure, I was telling her, I was teaching all day working with sophomores on their research projects.

And one of the things that I teach students is a very simple strategy.

Anybody can use it.

It's called SIFT.

S-I-F-T.

It stands- - S-I-F-T. Go ahead.

- Yep, it stands for when you encounter new information, STOP.

Don't engage with the information until you, I, INVESTIGATE the source.

Is it a source you know and trust?

If not, F, FIND better coverage.

And always, T, TRACE the claims back to the original context because context matters.

It's that kind of thing, those simple strategies that we can give kids to go out into the world and be more intelligent consumers of information.

- So I'm thinking about this, Ariel, as a a teacher of social studies and media, when you're listening to your colleague, when you're listening to Martha around this issue, you think what?

- I am doing very similar things in both my social studies and my media literacy classes.

So I teach social studies classes to high school students and media literacy to seventh and eighth grade.

And one of the core skills that I want my students to take away is always, always, always check your source.

Never take something at face value.

Look to see whether it's a primary source text in my social studies classes or the current events article in my media literacy classes where- - Time out.

I need to do this.

Someone says, "I read it online."

"Where'd you read it?"

"Uh, Facebook, Instagram, Snap..." "What was it?

Who was this?"

"I don't know, I read it.

It's the media.

The media, the news."

What do you say to that?

- So the media and the news isn't always factually correct.

Fake news and misinformation is unfortunately not a new thing.

But it's never been so prevalent in the world as it is now, and it's never been so hard to spot as it is now.

So it's important that from a young age, we're helping these kids learn how to check these sources and verify what they're reading because just because it was posted by CNN, Fox News, you know, no matter who- - You don't mean public broadcast.

Hold on one second.

(Ariel chuckles) You are, because there are some, stay on this, Ariel.

There are some who, when we put something out there, and we are not PBS, we are on public broadcasting.

And whether it's public broadcasting or another credible media organization, there are those who don't like that information who will call that fake news.

And that will tell folks who they believe are their constituents, if you will, stakeholders, "Don't believe them!

The media is the enemy."

So now you're calling something fake news, others call something else fake news because they don't like what it sounds like even if it's accurate.

Please, Ariel, I complicated things for you.

- You did, but it's okay because these are conversations that we have in my classes every day.

It's really about double and triple-checking your sources.

If you have, especially on more controversial topics, the students are going to be exposed to a lot of different opinions, what I call feel facts in my classroom.

You know so- - What do you call them?

- Feel facts.

They're facts that people feel are true but may not necessarily be true.

So it's a lot of investigating that we do in our classes as well and diving deep and saying, "Well, who's the author - Yeah.

- of this source?

Who employs this person?

Why might they be saying what they're saying?"

- How dare you ask those questions?

I'm joking.

Ian, I wanna get a couple minutes left here.

What have we missed in this conversation about educational excellence in these incredibly challenging, pressure-filled, polarized, divisive, I'm trying to be positive, democracy at a crossroads?

I think Georgette said earlier, we should call this education at a crossroads.

Is education at a crossroads, Ian?

- I think, you know, if we're thinking about what we missed, I think the one thing that we're kind of missing is that human element, right?

So like we've been talking a lot about sort of these larger conversations that are happening.

But, you know, oftentimes on the local level, it's really like teachers want the best for their students.

Parents want the best for their kids.

And like, that's the common ground that we can all sort of agree on.

And then, you know, where the conversation happens is like, how can we best achieve that?

And I think it's important to kind of recognize, you know, when we're talking about excellence in education, that really like 99.9% of the time, like that relationship and everything about it like works phenomenally well, right?

And so excellent teachers are those teachers who are the ones who are able to kind of like make those connections with kids, make those connections with communities, make those connections.

So it's the division, the divisiveness is not something that is sometimes actually real.

It's just kind of something that is blown up.

- Let me just say this.

First, I wish I had more time.

We don't, but I'm gonna say this to you.

As the parent of a seventh-grader in the public schools, I can not thank you and all the other public school educators for making a difference, for engaging in excellence.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it's sometimes it's not controversial, but the vast, vast, vast majority of time, my wife and I are really thrilled with the education that our daughter is getting.

And it's largely because of the teachers and the librarians she comes across.

And also I wanna thank the folks at the New Jersey Education Association who have supported our efforts to identify teachers, educators who engage in excellence.

Ariel and Martha, thank you so much.

We appreciate it.

- Thanks so much.

- You can say goodbye.

(all laugh) - Bye!

- Thank you.

- They're used to being in control.

We'll be right back after this.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're now joined by Betsy Ginsburg, Executive Director of the Garden State Coalition of Schools.

Betsy, great to have you with us.

- Thank you.

- We'’re gonna put up the website for the organization, tell everyone what your organization is, because I believe it's a volunteer organization.

- No, it's not, well, it is.

I should say I'm the only full-time paid employee, it is a coalition of a hundred public school districts from all over New Jersey.

- They're all volunteers.

- They are all volunteers.

Yes, our members, our member districts are represented by superintendents and board members.

Superintendents obviously are paid in that capacity, board members are volunteers at all times.

- And the mission is?

- And the mission is advocacy, equal access to education for all children.

- You know, while there's so many issues we can talk about, and we will talk about school funding in just a moment, there's a mental health crisis with our kids, there's no doubt about it, and the schools are at the cross section of all that because our kids spend so much time in schools.

Suicide is the second leading cause of death for teens and young adults between the ages of 10 and 24, according to the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control.

Why is that relevant to the mission of the Garden State Coalition of Schools?

- Because students can't learn, they can't have access to education unless they're mentally healthy.

And also, there is no real school security without mental health security, so suicide is very relevant to everything we do.

- What exactly are you looking for our policymakers to do with respect to this issue?

- Well, suicide is endemic, you know, it was on the rise, suicide among students, K-12 students, was on the rise before COVID, there was less suicide during COVID, it's on the rise again now.

What we're looking for policymakers to do is provide school districts with the resources to employ more mental health professionals and mental health programs.

- So let's talk about funding.

So the governor, the Department of Education, they have a funding formula.

- Yes.

- My understanding is that the funding formula is somewhat based on the state Supreme Court decisions in the state of New Jersey having to do with the constitution, and a thorough and efficient education for every student, and the effort to achieve that, and catching up in the so-called Abbott districts, 28, 29, 30 of those.

Question here is this, what is the biggest concern you have about state funding to our schools, for our schools, and what would you change specifically?

- Well, as you know, we have a funding formula that has been in place since before COVID, and it does consider the needs and requirements of individual students, money sort of follows the student.

However, and the formula was reviewed right before COVID, and amended with legislation that is known to us as S-2.

- S-2, just meaning Senate bill number two, go ahead.

- Right.

Attempted to address some issues with the formula.

Where we are right now is that, you know, we've come out of COVID, many districts in this cycle for FY-24, when they received their state aid notices received considerably less than they were anticipating.

- Less?

- Less.

- Why'd they anticipate more?

- Well, the way S-2 amended the formula was that districts that had been receiving a category of aid called adjustment aid, which was supposed to have been phased out after several years of the formula.

- One second, Betsy, I'm gonna avoid going into, no disrespect, the- - No, that's okay.

- But here's the deal, as I understand it, disproportionately suburban districts, school districts, are concerned and are angry on some level about the state funding formula to our schools, because they think they're getting the shaft.

- They do, and I think right now that's complicated by inflation, which is driving all our costs up.

Right, clearly.

- And you know, inflation driven particularly in the area of healthcare and fuel costs.

- Well, what do they wanna change about the formula, what exactly do they want to change about the formula?

They just want more money?

- Well, they want either more money in specific aid categories, like transportation, or they want the ability to have waivers, which allows you to raise taxes more than the 2% cap.

So for example- - The 2% cap on local governments, you can't spend more than 2% more than you spend- - Can't pay more than 2% from the local tax levy.

- Right.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

- And so, say your transportation costs have gone up 18%, and that certainly doesn't fit within the 2% cap, what might help districts is to be allowed to raise funds in excess by some amount of that 2% cap, to accommodate just that kind of fluctuation.

- Right.

So in the time we have left, I'm curious about this.

To what degree do you believe, Betsy, that Governor Murphy understands the message that your organization is sending about the school funding formula, A, and B, is willing to reexamine it and make certain adjustments?

- I think that the governor's office understands what the most recent problems have been, they have not made any statement on making adjustments, I think probably they're waiting to get through this budget cycle first, but we're hoping- - Which is on June 30th, just so we know, we're taping toward the end of April, what Betsy's talking about is the budget cycle has to be done by July 1st with a new budget.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

- And what worries us is that you have the budget cycle, which ends June 30th.

Then you have summer, where not much happens legislatively.

Then you go into fall, and it's campaign season, because everybody is up for reelection except the governor.

So we're worried that the issues that have come up with the formula most recently won't really be addressed before districts go into their budgeting cycle for FY-25.

- We're running outta time.

So what does that mean?

- That means that the problems that many districts had this year of receiving considerably less aid than they expected might recur, because nothing will have been done.

- Betsy Ginsburg, Executive Director of Garden State Coalition for Schools, I want to thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The New Jersey Education Association.

NJ Best, Holy Name.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Prudential Financial.

PSEG Foundation.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

Wells Fargo.

And by NJM Insurance Group.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

NJM Insurance Group has been serving New Jersey businesses for over a century.

As part of the Garden State, we help companies keep their vehicles on the road, employees on the job and projects on track, working to protect employees from illness and injury, to keep goods and services moving across the state.

We're proud to be part of New Jersey.

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