Hello and welcome to Horizonte, a weekly series that looks at current issues through a Hispanic lens.

I'm your host, Catherine Anaya, and according to the American Bar Association, Hispanics make up about 6% of lawyers in the U.S., and only about 3% are Latina.

One Arizona lawyer is trying to move that needle through mentorship, advocacy, and conversation.

Here's a look at Christina Perez hosting her podcast, Verdicts and Vogue.

A lot of people that didn't look like me.

People were willing to help, but there was always a little bit of a, I say, a disconnect because even though you're the same, you're different.

Yeah, right.

So that's how I felt starting.

So I oftentimes didn't ask for help.

I mean, I stand on the shoulders of my predecessors who lifted me up.

So I try to give back to very well said, joining me to talk more about her efforts to get more Latinas into law is Christina Perez, a seasoned trial attorney and founding partner of the Perez Law Group.

Nice to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Great to see you in person.

And and also on video, let's talk about this topic because it is so important when you look at the numbers, only 3% of the lawyers are Latina in the US.

How does that specifically look for Arizona?

Well, we have an underrepresented community, right?

So lawyers in Arizona make up anywhere from 2 to 3% for Latinas.

And yet our population in Arizona is 30 to 40%.

So we are our demographic is just underrepresented.

So when you look at that number, you know, when you have such a large population here in Arizona being Latino and then such a small percentage being Latina lawyers, where does that reflect itself most?

Where do you see that impact showing up most?

When you say, where do you see that impact showing most in our future generations?

What's the disconnect?

We have a gap.

We have.

It's one of the largest gaps, demographic gaps in the profession.

And so how do we fix that?

Is where I hope to make an impact, because I want to see future generations going into law school, going into the profession, leadership roles and so forth.

And I'm doing everything I can in my capability to help move that needle, which we appreciate.

By the way, I want to talk for a moment about Arizona Supreme Court Justice Maria Elena Cruz.

She was on our show a year ago, and one of the things she talked about was, and this is a quote, it's important that people in our state see themselves represented in the institutions of the state and especially in the judiciary.

She is the first Latina, the first Afro Latina to serve in the state Supreme Court.

Do you think her appointment has helped to move the needle?

Absolutely.

And you know, when you look at her being the the first Latina appointed to the Arizona Supreme Court 100 years before is when our court system was established, and it's only now that we have our first.

And so it's what an impact that makes.

Think about every little girl who learns that where she's sitting and this leadership role that she has and the impact that she can make, and they can then say, I can do that, too.

Exactly.

But it's remarkable that it takes that long and that it's taken this long.

Exactly.

So I've looked at research over the years, and a lot of it shows some progress, but also some persistent gaps, especially at the highest levels and especially in pay equity.

So can you tell me, as somebody who is practicing and building this career in that space, what changes have you personally witnessed through the years?

So the changes we are progressing, we are seeing an influx of Latinas entering into law school, where we see the discrepancy is when the leadership roles, the partnership roles, the executive roles.

So how do we close that gap?

And being someone who had to make her own table?

Because I opened up my own shingle, I was fortunate enough to place myself in a leadership role, which is a big responsibility, of course, with the help of giants before me who have been able to guide me and and lead me along the way.

And that's why I think it's such an important part of leadership, of helping those that generations in front of you to, to come in.

It's not only about mentorship, it's also about sponsorship.

Right?

I'm very big into mentorship because that's that's where I credit my career.

Those who have taken the time to mentor.

But it's also about sponsorship that who is going to appoint you or say your name when you're not in the room into that leadership position?

And I think that's where we need to.

And that's why it's so important to have Latinas in these leadership roles, because they can themselves make a change by appointing others and helping them find their path.

You have talked about the progress that you have seen, but where are we still falling short when it comes to the barriers that may continue to exist or stand in the way for Latina attorneys moving forward?

So we see these barriers, and oftentimes we see the barriers with the cases that create trial lawyers, where how do we get Latinas in those cases that that can help launch their careers in the clients that help Latinas build their book of business?

These are things that are important.

And then also in forming those opportunities that help Latinas gain visibility for future roles.

And that's where we need to make a change.

Can you tell me, was there a moment in your own personal career where you felt like there was the weight of those challenges that we've discussed, or where you felt like maybe there wasn't enough representation at a point where you needed it most?

You know, it's I look back, I've been practicing for 15 years, and I remember when I opened my firm in 2010, I went on the Arizona Corporations Commission to take a name out.

And I'll never forget it was Perez Auto and then Perez Lawn Care.

And there I was going to be Perez Law Group.

There was no other Perez law office.

It's changed that.

Now we have five.

Three of two of them are my siblings, my brother and my sister who have their own offices.

And then there's two other Perez that are in the Arizona nominal while it is.

But so.

So these are things that I have come to see a big change, because oftentimes I was the only Latina in the room to this day, the only Latina in the room on a conversation that we had previously.

I mentioned to you that I sit on a national product liability board, and I was when I was chosen to sit on the board.

After they accepted my nomination and they made it official, a Latino attorney who had who had sat on the board for a few years, he came up to me and said, congratulations.

And I said, thank you.

And he goes, congratulations.

You're the first Latina to sit on this board.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's heavy.

It's it is heavy.

And it's and it's also something that I'm so proud of because that shows that change is being made, whether it's slow or whether it can be faster.

That's something that we have to make a conscious effort, be intentional to make it, and you are being intentional and you are taking that responsibility seriously because of the work that you're doing with the mentorship, with the network that you've created around mentorship.

It's called women of the Arizona Trial Lawyers Association.

What was the moment or the experience that inspired you to move forward with something like this?

So the women of the Arizona Trial Lawyers Association is a is a committee, a subgroup of the Trial Lawyers Association.

And they were formed in the 1960s.

But in 2023, I believe Ilya Lerma, another Latina who was serving as president of the Trial Lawyers Association, she said to me, Christina, I want you to start a women's caucus.

And I said, okay, right.

I was volunteered and I volunteered.

I like, volunteered in a nice way.

And so I quickly jumped on the opportunity.

I then had Frances Lynch and Rhonda Kelso helped me formulate this group so that we can create a safe space for women attorneys as well with dealing with business development.

Mentorship calls our trial skills and we have been able to form such an amazing community.

But it was the idea of another Latina woman who said, I believe you can do this.

You're the right person for this job, and I ran with it.

We don't always have that in our lives.

So that's why this is so important, what you're doing, what kind of a difference have you noticed or an impact has this made in some of the women's lives that you've connected with?

Well, I can tell you that we as a group are stronger together.

We have had the opportunity to review cases together, work on cases together, go to trial together, put together, continuing legal education together, and just the camaraderie that we have formed, it's the plaintiffs attorneys have a great group that support one another, and that's something that goes a long way, because being a trial lawyer is tough.

Being a female trial lawyer, I would say, is even more difficult because there's other obstacles.

Oftentimes, female trailers make a a small percentage of the general population.

One of the things I really enjoy about your podcast is that you you really talk beyond just law, and you talk about what it's like being a woman in the industry and the challenges that come with it.

And you and your guests are very vulnerable.

Why is that important to have that space?

So when I when starting the podcast, I wanted to make sure that it wasn't just another podcast that was talking about how wonderful you know you are as an attorney and how great your verdicts are and so forth.

I wanted to create a space that people can come and be authentic, and this is for women and men.

We talk about the good and the bad, the, the winds and the and the lessons.

I always never say losses because I was believe in lessons.

And it's important because you can be authentic and you can be vulnerable.

And when you do that, it opens up the space for others to do it too.

And understand that not every day is going to be great as a trial lawyer, and you're not going to always win.

But if you learn from the difficult times, it prepares you for your future.

You have those conversations with professional practicing attorneys for the young Latina who may be watching this right now, maybe has or has not considered a career in law, what would you say to her?

I would say that if you're considering a career in law, go for it.

Don't listen.

Oftentimes to the advice of, let's say, our parents, our Diaz, our laws don't.

If they're saying, well, why don't you become a secretary?

Or why don't you become a court reporter?

If you really want to be a lawyer, go for it.

You can do it because we need more women, Latino lawyers.

I would love to see that 3% go up.

Yes.

And I like that you also encourage especially young women.

You know, you can be anything you want to be.

You just have to be willing to put in the work.

Absolutely.

Because that's that's the battle, right?

We can all have dreams, but unless you are persistent and dedicated to your dream, it will never become an action.

It won't become your reality unless you put that that commitment into it.

And so that's another big piece of it.

Did you feel as a woman, as a woman of color, when you were coming up in the business, that you had to work that much harder than everybody else?

Absolutely.

I think it's just something that was ingrained in me, because I wanted to make sure that I was looked at as someone who earned her place, who worked hard and was not given anything as a, like a handout.

Right.

Because at that time I'm like, oh, you're either a, an affirmative action candidate or I wanted to make sure that I was never under if I was underestimated, that I would prove everyone wrong.

Absolutely.

Well, congratulations on all the success of your career, but also all of the advocacy and the mentorship that you are providing for women in the industry.

It means so much.

I appreciate that.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for being here.

And that's our show for an Arizona PBS.

I'm Catherine Anaya.

Thanks for watching.

And.