From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made earlier this week when the Trump administration issued new guidance regarding Tylenol.

And then the president himself went on a long I would call it a rant about Tylenol telling women who are pregnant not to take it, saying that it can cause autism.

He says women have to learn to tough it out without medication.

And then we heard from more of the experts, and it has been a deluge of medical professionals across the country standing up and saying, first of all, we have got to be much more careful when we talk about the evidence.

And second of all, what does this do for pregnant women who might be blaming themselves unnecessarily?

Third of all, the autism community has come forward to say, why are we even talking about blame?

As if there's some sort of deep sin or scar to to be uncovered here instead of celebrating all people.

So it is a wide range of reactions to what the white House issued earlier this week.

And we want to have a conversation with people from a number of different sides who can at least talk about their own concerns or experience.

And we'll welcome your feedback as we go throughout this hour.

Let me welcome in studio first, the medical professional doctor, Stacey Sun, is with us, a fellow of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and assistant professor at the University of Rochester Medical Center.

Doctor, thank you for making time at short notice for us today.

Hi.

Thank you so much for having me.

Next to Doctor Sun is Tamika Robinson, a parent and an advocate.

Welcome.

Thank you for making time for us today.

Thank you for having me across the table.

Welcome a couple.

Let me welcome Courtney Dixon and Corey Moran, who are parents and advocates.

Welcome to you both.

Thank you for being with us.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah.

Thanks, Ivan.

Appreciate it.

Should we all pronounced acetaminophen?

I think what it should be to start with that, should we phonetically put it out there.

So just to break that down really quick.

Acetaminophen I think delay the benefit.

Dylan, we all did it.

That was amazing.

That our president had a hard time.

Hey.

No.

It's okay.

Let me welcome on the line as well another self-advocate, Dylan Taylor, who is out of town but wanted to join us.

Well, hey, Dylan, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Have a nice for having me.

All right.

So do you want to say I see the medicine?

Two.

Dylan, you want to join the party?

Acetaminophen.

Let's see.

I see that, you know, whatever works for us all.

Dylan, you nailed it.

That was, So.

So let me start with the medical professional in the room here.

And I just want to be very direct about what we're hearing from the white House.

So let's start by some of what we've heard from the president himself.

We've got two separate clips here.

Let's go to the first.

The first this is the president.

Some of the very specific remarks he made regarding Tylenol, but there's a very strong recommendation, maybe stronger from me from than from the group, because they're waiting for certain studies.

I don't I just want to say I want to say it like it is.

Don't take Tylenol.

Don't take it if you just can't.

I mean, it's just fight like hell not to take it.

There may be a point where you have to and that you'll you have to work out with yourself.

So don't take Tylenol.

And there are other things.

It's interesting because there are other things.

Other we we're talking about it other different drugs, pills that you take that we know are so bad and they don't take them anywhere.

But for some reason with this they keep taking it.

Don't take Tylenol.

There's no downside.

Don't take it.

You'll be uncomfortable.

It won't be as easy.

Maybe.

But don't take it.

If you're pregnant, don't take Tylenol and don't give it to the baby.

After the baby is born.

Okay, here.

We've got one more clip.

Do we arrive?

Yeah.

Let's listen.

The other one now to this is from the president.

The kind of number that we're hearing where it's 1 in 32 or 1 in 10, because I've heard 1 in 10 also.

Then in California, it's really bad.

I want it to be let's get it back to maybe 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 20,000, or maybe none in 20,000.

And the only way are you going to do that?

Because this is artificial induced.

This is induced by something, you know, go from one inch 20,000 to 1 in 10,000, then to 1 in 10.

That's means you're taking something and something's wrong.

No, it doesn't actually, it means that you're diagnosing it more in your understanding, it better.

But I'm not the medical professional.

So let's work backwards there.

That last clip, doctor son, was the president.

His view that if the rate of diagnosis has increased, then the number of cases must be increasing rapidly and there must be something to blame and it must be Tylenol.

What do you say?

Well, let's back up and clarify that correlation is not causation.

And, the strongest evidence and, really enormous article Jama article, who reviewed nearly 2.5 million kiddos have shown that Tylenol acetaminophen does not lead.

The use of it does not lead to autism in kids.

And you know, it's really important at this time, more than ever, that we follow our trusted guidelines.

And these guidelines are backed by the American Academy of Obstetricians, but also the American Academy of Pediatrics, pediatricians, the Autism Science Foundation as well, and the society for Maternal Fetal Medicine.

Yeah.

And one of the things I was trying to read as fast as I could about the studies that do exist, the president says we need more studies.

This has been studied.

It is very well studied, it's very well studied.

And one of the examples was where you you see, cases of children who have autism and families or parents who, administered Tylenol or see the men often.

Then they studied siblings in the same family where Tylenol or cinnamon was also used, and you don't see elevated rates of that.

You would think you would see elevated rates with throughout the family.

If Tylenol or acetaminophen is what's causing it and you don't see it, correlation is not causation.

And so, it is there is there something dangerous in what the president is saying?

I mean, he's saying telling pregnant women, don't take it.

You're going to be uncomfortable.

Tough it out.

He kept saying, tough it out.

That's such a it's I mean, clearly it's purposely aimed to, cause fear and confusion for people all around for pregnant people.

And not taking Tylenol, not taking cinnamon often can cause harm.

And, you know, fevers and illnesses during pregnancy that are untreated can cause harm.

And that's actually well studied as well.

So, please listen to our best clinical guidelines right now.

Listen to your provider, you know, to have a discussion.

And before jumping to conclusions, I have to say, listening to the president when he says, listen, you're going to be uncomfortable.

Maybe, but you'll be all right.

It's like you're flying first class, but the seats are not perfect.

You might be a little uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable is an interesting word to use for a man who's never been pregnant and who's never experienced what it is like for pregnant women who are probably desperate to do the right thing and now might feel even either more judged or limited, right?

It's not our place to blame people.

It's not our place as providers.

We certainly don't blame our patients and the people around us.

And, you know, this is not being uncomfortable.

This is, you know, having a fever, having serious pain is serious in pregnancy.

And if we don't treat it, there could be underlying issues that come out.

Okay, so let me turn to the rest of the panel.

And, you know, Dylan Taylor, when when we've talked in the past about your own self-advocacy as someone with autism, you know, you are someone who I know thought very deeply about your own life.

I don't know how much you've thought about.

I mean, did the Tylenol thing come out of nowhere for you or have you heard that in the past before this week?

Done.

No, I actually, I have a running joke about how every few years we have some new study that says that there's some correlation between something and autism.

And I'm very well aware that it's a part of the consistent desire to find a cause and what is most likely a multifaceted process of creating an autistic person that that probably deeply has to do with genetics.

So yes, I have I have I thought about it, have I seen this research?

Yeah.

It's it's been out since 2016.

It's been pretty well studied.

Was anything the president said convincing?

Absolutely not in studio here.

Let me ask Corey and Courtney to share a little bit of their own story.

And I have to say, you know, Corey is, been posting and writing about some of your own experience and very poignantly so, and got the attention of a number of our colleagues who are really moved about some of what you had to say.

So I want to give you both some, some space to talk about your own story.

I think I'm going to let my wife talk first.

And she was the one who was pregnant.

We have a six year old named Mason who is on the spectrum.

This was diagnosed, right.

But right when he turned three years old, at the Kersh Center here in Rochester, with a brilliant doctor who spent and a lot of time with him to go through the evaluation, we asked her right off the bat what caused this, and she said, we don't know.

And you will hear studies and you will see research and there will be no clear answer.

So I am a mother of three children.

I have three boys.

They are all two years apart.

Mason was the only child I didn't take Tylenol with.

I took Tylenol with the other two, the four year old and the one year old, and neither of them are experiencing any symptoms of an autism diagnosis.

The one year old, still a little bit young, but, the four year old certainly isn't.

And I just think if, you know, claims are being made that this is the underlying cause, did I inhale somebody walking by who might have just taken second hand Tylenol?

Right.

And just taking a pain reliever?

So I, you know, for us that it doesn't add up, that it's not accurate in our personal experience.

And then we get to and I'm sure you'll touch on this soon, but, that there's a cure for it.

And, for us, we don't want our child cured because we don't feel like anything's wrong with him.

We actually feel like he's kind of brilliant.

We feel like he to fix him would be to to ruin who he is.

There's.

He's not broken.

He is a beautiful, curious, smart little boy who lights up rooms and I think that as a parent, a parent neurotypical on the spectrum, any any parent out there, you want the best for your child.

You want the them to be the best versions of themselves, and you want them to do a little good in this world.

And our kid does that every single day, as young as six years old, as young as one year old.

I think.

Okay, I'll let you talk a little bit more about him.

Yeah.

I think it's really important to point out, because I think this is what we should be focusing more, than grasping at straws of what caused this.

What can we do to help?

Right.

And I think we are very blessed and lucky that we were able to, find out early again just when he turned three and then get him into the supports and services that have set him up for success for the past three years.

I mean, the growth that we've seen has been unbelievable, and we credit that so much to the the teachers and aides at happiness House, where he went in Canada Agua for two years.

And they're now in the Canada school system.

You know, he's in first grade now.

And I mean, it's it's been incredible for us to watch.

And I think that is really what the focus needs to be.

How can we amplify and double down and triple down on early intervention and the support services that these children can get so that they're set up for success?

How do you feel about the notion of a cure, and the idea that that is must be the main focus here?

It's it's, in my opinion, fundamentally wrong because it's it's inherently saying that there's something that is broken that needs to be fixed.

You know, if there's a parent, there's a parent listening who say they have a child who can't walk, they're in a wheelchair.

And someone came and they said, hey, I have this magic pill I can give you.

But the child that, you know, their personality is going to change if they take that pill, ask yourself that question.

Are you going to have them take that?

That's kind of what, you know, this quote unquote cure they're touting is they're kind of putting out there.

Right.

And we don't want to do that because at last my wife said, our little boy isn't broken.

He doesn't need to be fixed.

I a to to go back to.

And I'm not a doctor by any means, but everything I've read and you, you know, you find out your kids on the spectrum and you immerse yourself in this stuff and, you know, over and over I read, this is not a disease.

You cure diseases you don't cure.

Who's someone just is a you don't cure something they are just born with.

And is there are there opportunities and are there resources out there to improve certain areas he may be struggling in or she may be struggling?

And absolutely, that's every kid too, right?

Are there different ways of learning?

Absolutely.

I think every single person in this room, every single person listening, learns a little bit different.

That's that's the beauty of humanity, right?

We're all a little bit different.

And instead of trying to fix something that isn't broken, maybe we start celebrating and working together and educating and advocating for different ways to help these people grow, learn, adapt in the way that's best for them and in the way that their brain works and can understand and accept that for us.

Corey talked a little bit about the school our son went to, and or we attribute so much to that, along with his speech therapist and his occupational therapists and, his aides and understanding our four year old there who is neurotypical.

Yeah, he's neurotypical, but we want him around neurodiverse.

We want him around all kinds of people because that's what he's going to interact with.

And and we don't want anything to faze him as he continues to grow and just understands that people are people and love them for their differences and and if there are things that are similar to great, and if there are things that are different, then you, we hope you learn from them.

So, you know, I remember I remember that day of the diagnosis and I remember I immediately go into like, okay, let's accept this and move on and what's next mode.

And you know, there I never cry.

We never cried, we never like got upset.

And I know that that happens for some people because it's emotional.

When somebody tells you there's there might be something off about your child.

What we did instead was started reading and started reaching out to parents who have been in our shoes before.

And that was, that was the biggest help.

And, you know, I think, there are organizations locally.

Autism up is one of them where they are, they are open arms to parents like us, and they have programs and they have therapies and they have resources that anywhere your child is on the spectrum and it's a it's a big spectrum.

They're able to help and guide and, and teach you as a parent how to adapt and change your behavior and also how to help your child do the same for themselves.

And, you know, I remember just being in a new parent, finding out shoes of this little boy.

And I'm like, okay, where do we start?

And I, I didn't want to reach out.

I wasn't ready to share this with anybody beyond our family because I didn't know enough.

The first thing I did was I joined their Facebook group and I searched other Facebook groups nationally, and I didn't participate.

But I did observe and I read the comments and all of a sudden it made me feel like we're not alone.

This community, that we're not we're not that different.

There's a lot of people actually in our shoes.

There's a lot of people in our son's shoes, and it's all just a matter of learning and educating ourselves and educating those around us and moving forward and celebrating all the great things and addressing any challenges like you would with any child.

I think that did is is it dissolved the stigma because that can we just put it out there that there's there's quite a stigma that shouldn't be there?

Yeah, I think that's a powerful way to look at it.

And just just on the medical side of things that people are hearing about a possible cure from this administration.

Doctor sun, anything you want to add there from, based on, based on what we've heard this week, Doctor Sun, about a possible cure from this administration.

What do you want people to know right now?

There is no evidence that then there is any known cure to autism.

Nor I mean, there is plenty of research going on.

But there is no known cure for autism.

Autism is something that we should embrace and, take care of for the people who are diagnosed with autism and get them early intervention.

We know that kids who are diagnosed early and get care early do better later in life.

But do you think this administration is pointing to evidence that it's just not evidence too flimsy?

Correct.

It's just not any solid evidence at this point.

There's no it's not scientifically sound and no community at this point in time supports it.

Tamika Robinson, do you want to tell us a little about your own story and your own reaction to what we've been hearing about this week?

So I have a son.

He's ten years old.

His name is Chase.

He got diagnosed when he was, like between 2 and 3.

So I did early intervention.

It was scary.

It was very scary.

I was a single parent, and, I knew nothing.

I never heard of autism.

No, I mean blind.

It all I knew is this kid used to run everywhere, and I barely could chase him.

And I'm like, I'm scared what is going on with him?

So I remember just going to the doctor and like, hey, he's very hyper, you know, he don't listen.

He don't have, awareness of danger.

He doesn't know if somebody is like, trying to harm him.

Like he does not know anything like this is scary.

So then, you know, the doctor was like, you know, maybe, we just keep an eye on them, you know?

That's where it started.

So he kind of started school at the age of two.

It was like a lottery.

And if they pick it up your number, you could go to school early.

So he went to school for early pre-K, with the Rochester City School District.

So I remember him going to school and the teacher, you know, you don't want to hear nothing about your kid.

You know, like it just her as a parent, you know, might come and see you telling you something about your kid.

So I just remember the teacher coming to me saying, hey, I think you should get him looked at like she didn't know how to, tell me, you know, whatever it was at the time, she was trying to tell me.

She was just saying, I think you should go get him evaluated, you know?

So every day she would say that, but I. She was not clear.

And I'm a brand new mother, so I didn't know what she was talking about.

So then one day I asked her, like, you know, you tell me this all the time, what are you talking about?

And she's like, you know, I just saw kids who act like this.

And, you know, I refer them to get help.

And, you know, seek other attention, you know, from special doctors.

Still she not being clear to me, right.

So then I just think she didn't know how to tell me, you know, she thought I just.

I used to be stressing, you know, because he used to be all over the place.

I can smile now because we rocking and rolling out, you know what I'm saying?

But, back then, it wasn't a laughing matter, like it was.

It was a lie.

So what ended up happening was she explained to me, I said, you know, the doctor want to know things, so the doctor want to know exactly what is he doing in school.

So she's like, well, he's in a corner rolling cars.

And other kids are like participating in class.

He only participate when music playing or, you know, stuff like that.

But when it comes to like actually sitting down, he don't he doesn't eat our breakfast, he doesn't eat our lunch, you know.

So I was like, okay, now I really have a picky eater, you know?

So, I went back to the doctor and told them what, the teacher told me, and they, recommend me to go to class as well.

So that's what I ended up doing.

And I work with courage.

I think it's a. Yeah, it's about three years old.

Him getting diagnosed, and it was so weird how he had them, how they could diagnose them.

Like it was just like some toys in a bin.

And however they play with the toys, like, you could tell whether they were autistic or not.

So we left with a packet right.

I tell people all the time, they ask me, how did I get so far with my son?

I was scared, I was a scared mother by myself.

Nobody knew nothing about autism around me.

I was a scared mother.

I read that packet.

I read the packet because I was I was so lost.

I read the packet and I heard up the front door I got.

I went to the seminar for the front door.

I got him a care coordinator, Opw DS services.

I did all those things.

And, we work hand-in-hand with autism.

Up he goes.

The class is, you know, he's doing so well now.

How old is he now?

He's ten times me.

11 in November.

But like the other parents are saying, I will not change nothing about my child.

I don't want no care.

I worked hard to get him to where he at.

He is amazing.

He lights up a room.

Everybody loves him.

He's surrounded by nothing but love.

But it's just a struggle, you know?

And even today, I get inboxes on Facebook or Instagram or people see me out in public and they're like, hey, I have a friend or I know somebody and they need help.

You know, you and Chase is real established.

How did you do that?

I don't mind help helping.

I help because that help wasn't offered to me when I needed it.

I know how it was as a single mother to be scared.

You're scared somebody's telling you about autism, but you don't know what it is.

You never heard of it, you know?

You know, like we were talking earlier, this stuff was head.

This is the most I've ever saw of kids of disabilities.

Even when I'm.

I was a child.

I'm only 39, you know what I'm saying?

But when I was a child, I didn't see a lot of disabled kids.

I didn't see that.

All of a sudden this happened, you know?

So I just think, like, as far as the tunnel go, I was a mother that used Tylenol.

So when that came a thing and I want to say I heard about it within the past, like, probably like two years.

Okay.

I've, I've heard about it.

And it's just like social media, like, you know, how something pops up.

You could be, I don't know, you talk on your phone, anything pops up.

Do you think?

Yeah, I do think to make a social media occasionally.

Yeah.

Stuff that is not correct I think.

Yeah.

No, I'm.

No, I'm with you.

I'm with you.

But that's what I, I know it's a paranoia thing.

That's where I first saw.

Did you blame yourself?

No.

It just had me questioning like, geez, I did take a lot of thought, because the doctor told me, like, take Tylenol, you know, that's that's all you can take.

And I was like, I had, like, my body was in pain.

Yeah.

So I took Tylenol.

So at first, when I first saw it, if it didn't wasn't like a blame, it was more like.

Interesting.

So you're wondering if there's a connection?

Yeah, if there's a connection.

And again, the evidence.

Right now indicates that there is not.

But what is it like hearing the president say to you?

Well, you should just toughed it out.

I think, like, as a pregnant woman, like to say that, first of all, we are really vulnerable.

We go through a lot.

And then to sit there and say that we have to, like, just kind of like hug it out, you know, that's a lot, because you, you in a lot of pain.

And then for him to say there is no alternative, there is no alternative.

So if we can't take Tylenol, then what are we taking then what are we to do?

You know, I feel like at that point now we going to have, cuts pain starts, your blood pressure raised and everything else.

So now you starting to have those issues and those complications.

That's right.

So I just look at I don't know what he was thinking when you said that.

You know, he say a lot of things that just pops out, you know.

But I just think that it's hard on a pregnant woman, a mother, during that time, I'm glad that your ten year old is doing well.

Oh, yeah.

He's done awesome.

And I want to ask Doctor Son if she wants to just add a little bit.

That last point about it's not trivial to say, tough it out.

There's nothing you can use.

What do you want to make sure you emphasize for, for listeners to understand about what options you have if you're pregnant, pregnant patients are toughing it out already on the daily.

So take Tylenol, take acetaminophen when you need it, please, and talk to your provider about it.

If you want to have that discussion, talk to your friends, talk to your family.

Talk to other people who have experienced.

Talk to families who have kids with autism.

Know what that actually is like before making your own decision.

And so taking not taking it just like you said, can cause worsening conditions, right?

And so fevers can cause true harm.

Real pain can cause true harm to people.

There are no other medications right now that we can help to prevent pain in pregnancy.

Really that are safe.

Ibuprofen not safe in pregnancy, right.

We're not going to be promoting narcotics for people who are pregnant, correct?

Right.

So we are left with acetaminophen, which is still and will continue to be safe for pregnant patients until otherwise we know.

Let me also ask Dylan Taylor to weigh in on some of what you've heard.

You heard Tamika Robinson say her ten year old is beautiful, doing great because she doesn't want to change it.

You heard Courtney and Corey say, you know, they don't think of their child is broken.

Dylan, is there anything in you as a self-advocate that you would want to cure, to use that phrase, that the white House is used?

No, I think that, I think that there are a lot of things that much like other people, I would I do want to change about myself, but I think that that has less to do with the autism and more to do with just being a human being.

But whenever I see an autistic child, you know, I recognize the inherent worth of their life, and the inherent worth that they have as a human being and the contributions that they can make to society.

And I just don't see a reason why we should be trying to alter that.

And, you know, really worries me when you hear the president and it's something we didn't touch on.

In second statement, he says, we want to see that number go down to maybe zero.

And this is a that we get to political.

But, you know, I love politics, too.

So this is a presidency and a president who is more worried about, you know, the perception of success over actual results.

And it really leads you to question things like, what do you mean by get it down to zero?

Are we talking about taking away people's diagnoses?

Are we talking about taking away, early intervention services that help make these diagnoses so that you can claim that we have gotten to zero and the harm that that would cause the autistic community is worse than anything that he has done so far.

And what he's done so far is already, I quite impressive for the US government to be causing harm to our community.

So, I think that that statements like that kind of leave me on the edge of my seat.

As for how they might go about doing this, Corey, you want to add to them?

I'm kind of troubled overall with the tone that the administration's taken.

Overall, I look back to April when RFK junior made a couple of statements and I'm going to read those right now.

Autism destroys families and more importantly, it destroys our greatest resource, which is our children.

Children with autism will never pay taxes.

They'll never hold a job.

They'll never play baseball.

They'll never write a poem.

They'll never go on a date.

Many of them will never use the toilet unassisted.

That's not true.

That is not true at all.

And we know that in this room.

But that is the narrative that is being spread to the nation.

And there are sadly going to be many people that are going to see that and believe it.

And that, I think is the most troubling thing for me.

That is very troubling.

I didn't even I never heard that, but that did something to me just now.

Oh, it's not, and it should because that's I mean, that's vile stuff.

Honestly.

I look at my son sometimes I feel like he's smarter than me.

We do that.

He comes up with the like.

Now he's learned how to manipulate situations, you know, in and I'm looking at him like, did you just manipulate me?

Listen, some children are beautiful.

They when I say beautiful day, live the life that we supposed to live.

They're not worried about anything.

They just happy and smiling.

They have day routine.

Long as they routine is not interrupted.

You don't have to.

I tell people all the time, you do not even have to yell at them.

You could just talk to them like they're me, are you?

And guess what?

You're going to be a okay.

Those kids can never go on a date.

Them kids going, yes they can.

There's literally just showing that about it just makes you look out.

My love.

On the spectrum.

Can I just plenty of neurodivergent people across all professional situations, so to say that they can never have a job.

I mean, some of the most successful, I mean, some of the greatest minds in the history of the world.

Yeah, yeah.

So here's what I want to ask one more question to Dylan on this subject.

And then after our only break, Paul, I'll take your phone call.

Listeners, if you've got more phone calls.

I've got a lot of emails.

We're going to get through as much feedback as we can as we talk about the white House guidance on Tylenol, which is contradicted by the medical community writ large, and its comments on autism.

Dylan, when you talk about the desire to score political wins, to do so, to be able to say, well, the rate of autism was one and whatever, but now it's only one in, you know, a thousand.

Would to you look like a Pyrrhic victory, a fake victory, manipulating data.

I have to say, when you brought that up, done.

It reminded me that a few weeks ago on this program, we played sound of the president lamenting the fact that as you look at the crime rate, he's frustrated that as he sends federal troops to Washington, talks about Chicago, people have pointed out that politically, red states have higher crime rates.

And his response was, well, he's getting hurt by that because they count it.

When a husband strikes his wife at home is a crime.

You know that a little fight at home becomes a crime instead of just a private matter.

And he viewed that it was personally offensive to him as the president because his crime stats weren't going down.

So I have to say that there is a little bit of precedent, Dylan, this idea to to have the data look good for you.

Yeah.

I mean, we saw the same I mean, he had the same comments about, I mean, that one that one is obviously one of the most horrible.

But he did the same thing with labor statistics.

I mean, he fired the director of.

Yeah, who was counting labor because they were not giving him the results that he wanted the jobs report.

Yeah.

Thankfully, the man is transparent.

It's just that he knows that his supporters will not care.

And he knows that the people who don't support him will criticize him for it.

And his supporters will not care.

And that's that's what has me worried is in this time of intense polarization, what we used to be able to have bipartisan agreement on issues like autism and like increasing services for autistic children, autistic adults in autism is now in the realm of politics, and that is a bad thing.

I think that's well said.

After we take this, only break your feedback as we're, talking about a wide range of issues related to that white House guidance.

We'll come right back on connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next connections in our first hour.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and this is Paul in Brighton.

First on the phone.

Hey, Paul, go ahead.

Oh.

Hello, Evan.

You know, I've been sitting here listening, and, I think it's going to be best if I don't make the comment, that I was originally going to make about our commander in chief.

I'd probably be best to, keep you guys on the air if the FCC's listening, man.

Come on.

Yeah.

And the, listening extra lecture to these to listen to these folks and their, you know, just just knowing my my brother in law is in California, is autistic, and he was born in 1955.

And, it was a pretty difficult time for, for my wife's family.

When you talk about services and, you know, what was available during, during that period of time and, the fact that he's been able to, you know, maintain a job and, and, and, and, you know, and live semi independently, with a lot of help from the state of California when it finally became available.

And, and just to listen to these folks amazing stories and these amazing people and compare them to, a person that doesn't have a sympathetic bone in his body for anybody or anything that people go through.

As I say, it would be best for me to stop right now and, and, just thank you for giving everybody a forum, because apparently we don't have, a Doctor Fauci anymore.

Who would it would at least would try to counteract, some of the, the bilge and the swill that's coming out of, of Washington right now.

So, as I say with that, I'm going to stop now because it's just going to get worse.

And you guys all have a wonderful day and you take care.

Well, thank you very much for the phone call, Paul, I appreciate that.

And doctor, send your colleagues across the country.

I mean, I haven't seen I don't know that I've seen anybody in your field who has stood up to say, endorsing what they've heard, either from RFK or the president in the last few days on this.

Have I missed anybody or is it pretty unified?

It's very unified.

You know, our own Department of Health came out with just a statement yesterday.

So, you know, again, reaffirming that sentiment often does not lead to increased risk of autism in our kiddos.

So again, there's no sound evidence that this is a thing Jay and Kendall writes in to say.

My understanding is that acetaminophen is in scores of other products.

Is that right?

Doctor said it can be, yes.

So Jay's asking, why in the world would Trump and his, this is his email and his minions be focusing this only on Tylenol?

Not all the other products containing that word that he can't even pronounce.

That's from Jay.

That might be more complicated.

Maybe he can't say the word very well, but it's easy to focus on the one brand that we all know of and that we connect with.

So that's my assumption at this point.

Okay.

But, where do we find it?

Where else do we find acetaminophen?

Is it in Sudafed?

I took some today.

Actually.

I saw it on the box.

I was like, It can't be in a number of different medications.

And usually sometimes it can be like for example, I believe middle has a little bit or, you know, different kind of medications may have it combination of our kids cold medications when it's like made in combination like yours was can have it as well.

But again follow the instructions.

Let me read from Aria who says I'm currently pregnant.

My pregnancy is considered an elder pregnancy, pregnancy of 35 years old and above, and my Ob-Gyn recommends baby aspirin to prevent and aid with preeclampsia.

Yeah, I would be more concerned about the harms of preeclampsia than my baby potentially having autism due to see the men often.

Also, I have a fair amount of friends that are autistic on various ends of the spectrum, and they are some of my most treasured friendships.

That's from Aria.

What do you think?

Doctor said?

I yeah, I 100% agree with her.

And you know, it's preeclampsia is definitely it's prevalent in our community, is prevalent in the nation.

And I am worried about I'm always worried about preeclampsia for our patients.

And so yes, I agree I am more worried about preeclampsia in most circumstances than I am worried about any possible harm taking a acetaminophen can do for our patients.

And let me also just, let me address an email that came in that has a long story, a very interesting story that I had not heard, but it was essentially making the point about how societies evolve and how biology evolves, making the point that diversity within species is good, diversity of experience and the homogenization, the effort to scrub out autism or eliminate autism, or eliminate any diversity, is number one, probably not going to be successful.

And number two would not be beneficial to a species that benefits from diversity in a lot of different ways.

Now, I want to ask all of our guests about that medically.

What do you make of that point, doctor?

Well, I think diversity is what makes everything have more potential in life.

There is more potential when there is people from different backgrounds, different living experiences.

Yeah.

There is just so much more potential.

And that is what makes partly what makes our country great, really what it came from, is the diversity that we have in diversity in terms of medical, if we're talking about scientific diversity is what causes can cause new things to occur, new, new random mutations that can make our life different and wonderful.

Yeah.

So Lisa, thank you for that email.

So, Tamika, you want to add to that here?

I mean, the difference in all of us is kind of what makes life wonderful anyway, isn't it?

Absolutely.

I love that our, country is diverse.

Get close.

That microphone.

I love that our country is diverse.

Diversity is needed.

I feel like if it was a bunch of people like me, life would be boring.

Haha.

Well, I actually think it would.

I don't think so.

Just like it would actually never be boring.

And by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, I just want to say I love the puzzle pieces.

I don't judge.

What you don't understand is the phrase that you're wearing.

What a bunch of beautiful puzzle pieces.

You look great today.

Thank you so much, I love that.

So I don't think if it was all to me because it would probably be very interesting, but the larger point stands there.

Courtney, how do you feel about that?

How do you feel about this idea that people are afraid of diversity or are afraid of what they don't understand?

Well, I think people are always going to be afraid of what they don't understand, but I think that's where the educating yourself and learning from others and hearing stories like Tamika story and our story and a whole plethora because again, the spectrum is a huge spectrum.

Is is really what's going to help people hopefully understand what this is.

And this is a way of life.

And when they see kids are people out in the community, they'll be able to maybe be a little bit more empathetic as to, meltdown or, a lot of energy running all around when you're supposed to be waiting in line, like, the way our eye for an eye, the way our child's brain works.

This is a three year old who taught himself Spanish, and he started coming home and we thought he was learning it at preschool.

And his preschool teacher message us and said, are you guys teaching him Spanish at home?

I'm like, we don't know Spanish.

So it got to I took five years in high school.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Come on.

See that?

And, and, so but well, it got to a point where we would have to have him say these statements into Google Translate for us because he's yelling to us and we're like, we don't know what you're saying.

And he's saying full blown sentences solely because he was sitting next to a bilingual child at school, and he picked up and memorized everything that kid was saying.

So our family, you know, RFK junior said autism, quote unquote, ruined families.

Our entire family now refers to the Green front restaurant in Canandaigua is very different.

And when Mason wants to go get pizza and great wings, we go to very different.

And and you know, when he asks for the Rosa Blanco pajamas, we know those are his Christmas is red and white Christmas jammies.

So, you know, this is a child who's teaching us, teaching us Spanish.

And I mean, we we that's a small example.

But like, we learn random things all day, every day because of this kid that I never would have known.

And and he shares that joy.

And again, I think it comes back to diversity.

Like if we're not celebrating that and we're not asking him to share that with other people or we're not spreading that joy, that education, that love, that person, that curiosity, that he brings to our lives with everybody else.

And I'm sure to make you feel the same way about Chase.

Yeah.

Like Chase right now is.

He hates going to the doctor.

Right?

So I can't say.

Oh, I got a bump on my arm.

He's going to come and say, do you have a fever?

Like, are you coughing?

Do you have diarrhea?

Like the leaf going down.

He's getting down on line.

You don't let him down.

Yeah, he's going down the line like he's a doctor.

But this is because he does not like going to a doctor.

So now he youtubes everything.

But that's his thing right now is doctor stuff.

He's right in my back seat.

And I can hear him on YouTube in, like, I'm like, is that a doctor talking in the back?

And sure enough, it is because that's that's what he's doing now.

You absolute right.

Like you're saying do it Spanish.

That's amazing.

These children are amazing.

They are amazing.

And I just wish more people just learn instead of like running away.

Because I feel like like right now we go to a park instead of chasing, hey, do you want to play tag here?

Go tap them.

And then what if somebody hit you?

You got to chase them.

So that's the reaction he wants, right?

So I constantly have to at the park.

Hey, he's not hitting you.

He just want to play tag.

And then I go to Chase and say, hey, if you want to play tag, just say, hey, do you want to play tag?

You know, so, you know, they have a way of doing things, but it's all love.

That's really all it is.

Let me ask Korean Dylan if they want to do anything wrong.

I'm sorry.

I mean, you talk about embracing differences, right?

And I'm going to take back, like, the 30,000 square foot or the 30,000ft view here.

I think that's what's wrong in general with the country, is that it's one of the most divisive times ever.

And that's because we're not embrace the differences of each other.

We're not having conversations like this.

We're on our computers and we're sending mean Facebook messages to people.

And, and I think that is why we are where we are right now, very sadly.

Dylan, anything you want to add?

There?

Yeah, flip it a little.

I would say, I appreciate my neurotypical friends.

I do have them.

And I would never want to see them gone.

So, you know, I appreciate the diversity in my life and having both autistic and non autistic people.

And, I think that it makes my life better.

I don't see why somebody would not want to have that experience, but, you know, I think that's a fair way to flip it.

You know, I you're always making us think of things in different ways.

Our.

Dylan.

That's why we got you on the program today.

Hey, let me squeeze in a couple more emails here, and I think we've got Joel in Rochester on the phone.

Got to keep it tight.

Go ahead.

Joel.

Oh, that was that was user error.

Joe Wonder.

Start again.

That was host user.

Oh, yeah.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Thanks for taking my call.

So I guess I wondered about there's been discussion from former CDC head about RFCs, comments about autism, kind of reading the spectrum of, eugenics.

And Trump's comments earlier this week also kind of seem like they're heading in that direction, but completely eliminate autism by not taking Kyle at all.

It might be a meeker or less kind of offensive comment and asks, but I think the specter of eugenics still holds true.

So what?

I'd love to get some feedback about that.

That too.

The it's been around since the 19th century, actually, seven years before I Trump's grandfather, even appeared.

The United States drugs that around and used for fevers and for, for colds.

So, you know, you have to put that into perspective.

Then lastly, I wonder, I wonder, you know, how the fact that Facebook and now, YouTube and Google are not going to be tracking content or, you know, trying to combat, disinformation as much how that's going to play a role in the fact that, the Trump administration is putting out this goes no concerns about Tylenol.

So anyway, no, this time's tight.

But thank you for your.

Yeah, Jeff, after the show.

Thank you for all three of those points.

The last one, I'm just going to say this tomorrow on this program.

We're talking with attorneys about, about speech law.

And I will say that in general, my disposition is to counter speech with speech.

Speech that you don't like, speech that you think is wrong with more speech.

I think any time that we try to use instruments, especially of government, to stamp out speech, it tends to lead us to where we were with Jimmy Kimmel getting record ratings going back on the air last night, even though you couldn't see it in Rochester.

Thank you.

Sinclair.

So, we're going to talk about that tomorrow.

I don't know that I want Facebook or YouTube to put too much of a thumb on it, although if they've got people who can monitor misinformation.

But I think that's a bit of a slippery slope.

I know that's not the government doing.

There's a big difference between the FCC when Brendan Carr, when the vice president of the United States or anybody else is doing it.

So but I take that point, Joel, it's going to be hard because the president is beloved and listened to by millions of people.

And he's telling people, don't take Tylenol.

You know, Tylenol stock is really struggling all of a sudden.

I mean, like, this is real.

So, it's going to be a lot of effort.

But I think more, you know, speech was speech, counter speech was speech.

And that's a good place to start.

That's why we're here today.

And I also want to squeeze in an email that came from Zach.

Where was that one?

Zach essentially wanted to know how come you haven't mentioned vaccines this hour?

Here's why.

We are talking vaccines probably next week on this program.

But it's not just about autism.

There's been a lot of new guidance on vaccines generally in this administration.

And we will have some of Doctor Son's colleagues coming.

You're busy enough.

We're not going to have you come in twice in a week, but your colleagues are going to be joining us next week to talk about vaccine guidance, what you ought to know.

And that's in regards to, you know, claims about autism generally claims that are misinformation.

But also, you know, the president said that babies get 80 vaccines and that's it's enough for a horse.

And like, no, that's not that's also not true.

Right?

Not true.

Okay, absolutely.

So if you heard that that's also not true.

So we're going to talk about all of that stuff next week.

And I appreciate the questions Zach.

So it's been a lot of ground to cover.

So let me just start with this here.

We reached out to kind of Corey when when I saw your post at first here.

So I'm going to give you 30s.

What do you want to leave with listeners as we continue to hear about this stuff in this and what feels like kind of a really ugly discourse right now?

Yeah, again, I think it goes back to embracing those differences.

It goes back to for parents that, you know, have children with that diagnosis of autism, that early intervention, get it as soon as you can and then explore as many services you can.

There's a lot of great things out there.

There's a lot of, different organizations as well, you know, autism up like Courtney mentioned earlier in the episode.

So take advantage of that.

And community connect with those people.

Right.

And it made us feel less alone.

And I think that's going to help, a lot of parents that that have a child with that diagnosis.

Final thought from you.

We gotta keep it tight.

Yeah.

I, I'm a mom with a kid on the spectrum, and I have gone to two different practices across my pregnancies.

Had nine different doctors within those practices who I got to visit with all of them.

And, and also two midwives.

And every single one gave me the same advice.

And it was that Tylenol is safe for your pregnancy.

I'm a firm believer in the medical profession.

Any mom or soon to be a mom who's pregnant right now, I would highly recommend you follow what your doctor says.

They're they're trained in this.

They go to school for years and years and years to become experts in the female body, in babies.

And and the best of luck to you.

Yeah, I think that's really well said.

Doctor son said essentially the same thing earlier.

You're not going to find any of her colleagues saying otherwise.

So, Dylan 20s is what's going on this week making it harder for people like you, people who have autism?

Or is this par for the course for you?

It's getting really par for the course at this point.

I think we're all relatively used to it.

It doesn't make us feel any better.

But it's I think a good thing to remember is that answers, is done around office and will always be around.

I would tell you the rates start to drop.

That is a manipulation of the data and it's just harming us.

So yeah, I'm pushing along.

Thanks for making time for us, Dylan.

Always appreciate you.

Thank you Corey and Courtney.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you for sharing your family's thoughts here.

We're going to meet Chase one day playing tag in the park.

We're going to it to maker and we're going to I'm going to look forward to that day.

Thanks for sharing your story.

No thanks for being here and doctor on short notice.

Thank you for adding your expertise to this program and from all of us.

The connections.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you for listening.

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