ANNOUNCER: THE ISSUE OF OUR AGE MAY WELL BE REMEMBERED AS THE TWO-SIDED COIN OF RELATIONS BETWEEN THE WESTERN WORLD AND THE MUSLIM WORLD, THE FRICTIONS THAT SEEM, TO MANY, TO ARISE FROM THE WEST IN THE MUSLIM WORLD AND FROM THE MUSLIM WORLD IN THE WEST.

THERE HAVE BEEN MUSLIMS IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE THE COLONIAL ERA, AND THEIR RIGHT TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION WAS ENSHRINED IN 1786 WITH THE PASSAGE OF THOMAS JEFFERSON'S VIRGINIA ACT FOR ESTABLISHING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, WHICH BECAME THE BASIS OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

JEFFERSON SPECIFICALLY INCLUDED MUSLIMS IN HIS DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE LAW WAS MEANT TO COMPREHEND WITHIN ITS MANTLE OF PROTECTION, BUT IN CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN POLITICS, STRONG VOICES SEEM TO QUESTION THE PLACE OF MUSLIMS IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, AND IT IS UNDENIABLE THAT AROUND THE WORLD, AN EXTREMIST AND VIOLENT VARIANT OF ISLAM IS A GROWING AND DANGEROUS FORCE.

ON THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH," WE LOOK AT 21st-CENTURY ISLAM-- ROLES, RIGHTS, TRADITIONS, AND UPHEAVAL.

THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN ENGLISH-SPEAKING COURTROOMS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE HAVE SWORN AN OATH TO TELL NOT ONLY THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER THE WHOLE TRUTH.

THE OATH REFLECTS THE WISDOM THAT FAILING TO TELL ALL OF A STORY CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS LYING IF YOUR GOAL IS TO MAKE THE FACTS SUPPORT YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

IN THE COURTROOM, THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH ALSO RELIES ON ADVOCATES ADVANCING FIRM, CONTRADICTORY ARGUMENTS AND DOING SO WITH DECORUM.

ALL OF THESE APPLY TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, WHAT JOHN STUART MILL CALLED THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS.

THIS SERIES IS A PLACE IN WHICH THE COMPETING VOICES ON THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES OF OUR TIME ARE CHALLENGED AND SET INTO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT SO THAT VIEWERS LIKE YOU CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES THE WHOLE TRUTH.

OUR TOPIC TODAY, ISLAM IN THE 21st CENTURY, FILLS MUCH, PERHAPS TOO MUCH, OF CONTEMPORARY POLITICAL DISCUSSION IN THE UNITED STATES.

OUR HEADLINES SCREAM OF TERRORISM INVOLVING SELF-PROCLAIMED ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS AND OF NUMEROUS AND COMPLEX CONFLICTS WITHIN THE MUSLIM WORLD AMONG ETHNIC AND SECTARIAN MUSLIM POPULATIONS.

SOME SPEAK OF A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS BETWEEN THE WESTERN WORLD, BETWEEN THOSE WHO APPROVE OF WHAT IS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD TO DEFINE MODERNITY VERSUS THE MUSLIM WORLD, OR AT LEAST ELEMENTS WITHIN THAT WORLD, WHICH APPEAR TO THESE COMMENTATORS TO REJECT MODERNITY AND ESPOUSE VIOLENCE AGAINST ITS PROPONENTS, ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE AND AMERICA.

OUR PANEL TODAY INCLUDES 3 MUSLIMS OF WIDELY DIVERGENT BACKGROUNDS AND WORLD VIEWS, AND OUR INTENTION, AS WITH EVERY TOPIC WE TAKE UP ON "THE WHOLE TRUTH," IS TO REPLACE HEAT WITH LIGHT ON THESE SENSITIVE AND CRITICAL ISSUES.

JOINING US HERE ON SET TO DISCUSS THESE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ARE ASRA NOMANI, A PROMINENT JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR; RAZA BOKHARI, THE NORTH AMERICAN POINT OF CONTACT FOR FORMER PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN PERVEZ MAUSHARRAF-- RAZA IS A SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR WHO WAS ASKED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT AFTER SEPTEMBER 11 TO TRAVEL IN THE MUSLIM WORLD AND DESCRIBE HIS EXPERIENCES AS A MUSLIM AMERICAN-- AND NIHAD AWAD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND COFOUNDER OF THE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US.

I CANNOT RESIST, UH, BUT TO, UH, OFFER BY WAY OF, UH, A SORT OF PREFACE HOW IMPORTANT, UH, THIS TOPIC, UH, IS, THAT IS, EXPLORING 21st-CENTURY ISLAM.

WHEN I WAS A CHILD, A TEENAGER, UH, THIS WAS COLD WAR, UH, AND THE MUSLIM WORLD AND THE WESTERN WORLD WERE--WERE UNITED IN THEIR OPPOSITION TO COMMUNISM AND MATERIALISM.

THEY WERE THE BEST ALLIES, UH, THE UNITED STATES HAD IN THIS PERIOD, AND THEN SUDDENLY TO DISCOVER THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE UH, BETWEEN THE MUSLIM WORLD AND SO FORTH, PERHAPS IT WAS ALWAYS THERE.

NOMANI: RIGHT.

EISENHOWER: ANOTHER THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT EVERYONE ON, UH, AS PART OF THE PANEL TODAY ARE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES, WHICH MEANS WE'RE HAVING A DISCUSSION AMONG AMERICANS, UH, ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

I--I WOULD LIKE TO READ A PARAGRAPH FROM PETER BERGEN'S RECENT BOOK ENTITLED "THE UNITED STATES OF JIHAD," IN WHICH HE WRITES, "IMAM MOHAMED MAGID, "A SUDANESE-AMERICAN CLERIC "WHO PRESIDES OVER ONE OF "THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST MOSQUES, "SAYS, "EVERY TIME I COME HOME "FROM OVERSEAS, "INCLUDING COM--UH, COMING FROM "THE MOST RELIGIOUS COUNTRIES, "WHEN I ARRIVE AT THE AIRPORT, "I ALWAYS SAY, "MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA."

"I SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

"THERE IS NO PLACE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, INCLUDING EUROPE, "TO LIVE AS A MUSLIM, "TO REALLY BE EXPRESSING "YOURSELF AS A MUSLIM, MORE THAN IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA."

UH, I THINK THAT THAT-- UH, THAT'S A FASCINATING-- THAT'S A SENTIMENT THAT ALL AMERICANS, UH, WANT TO BELIEVE IN.

WHAT IS THE REALITY?

AWAD: I THINK THAT'S REALITY.

UM, I HAVE THE SAME FEELING WHENEVER I TRAVEL ABROAD AND COME BACK.

I COME BACK HOME, I FEEL THAT, UM, AMERICA IS DOING MUCH BETTER THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD BECAUSE HERE, UH, AS AMERICANS, WE APPRECIATE WHO WE ARE.

UH, OUR STRENGTH AS--AS A COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF OUR DIVERSITY, BECAUSE OF THE RULE OF LAW, BECAUSE OF EQUALITY, SOMETHING THAT WE BELIEVE IN, WE PROFESS, WE LIVE BY, WE PRACTICE, AND IT IS NOT PERFECT, BUT WE'RE GETTING THERE, UM, SO WE'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR DIVERSITY AS AMERICANS, AND WE APPRECIATE WHO WE ARE AS--AS--AS PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT COLORS, DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES, DIFFERENT-- DIFFERENT FAITH, UH, TRADITIONS.

WE CELEBRATE THAT.

WE DO NOT PUNISH EACH OTHER BECAUSE WE'RE DIFFERENT, UM, SO WHEN WE TRAVEL TO THE MUSLIM WORLD, WE HOPE WE SEE THAT BECAUSE THE FAITH, UH, YOU KNOW, PROMOTES THESE VALUES THAT WE LIVE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S A POLITICAL UPHEAVAL AND TURMOIL IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, AND, UH, SO THAT'S WHY WE APPRECIATE BEING IN AMERICA, ESPECIALLY SOME OF US WHO ARE IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME TO AMERICA, ADOPTED AMERICA AS-- AS OUR HOME COUNTRY.

YOU WERE BOTH BORN ABROAD, CORRECT?

YEAH.

YEAH.

I WAS BORN IN INDIA...

YES.

A COUNTRY WITH SECULAR GOVERNANCE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I CAME HERE WHEN I WAS 4.

WHEN I GREW UP IN NEW JERSEY, MY BEST FRIEND WAS NANCY DREW BECAUSE SHE WAS MY COMPANION EVERYWHERE, AND SHE WAS MY BEST FRIEND BECAUSE SHE INTRODUCED ME TO AMERICAN SOCIETY, AND WHAT I LEARNED FROM HER WAS THE CAPACITY FOR A GIRL TO BE AS FIERCE AS SHE WANTS TO BE, AND THAT'S WHY I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.

I LOVE THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE IN THIS COUNTRY, WE, UH, VALUE INDIVIDUAL HUMAN RIGHTS.

WE VALUE THE RIGHT OF EVERY HUMAN BEING TO EXERCISE THEIR DESTINY AS THEY WISH.

WHAT I AM TROUBLED BY IN OUR MUSLIM COMMUNITY, HOWEVER-- WHICH IS A REALITY THAT WE FACE, EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY-- IS THOSE WHO WANT TO IMPORT INTO THE UNITED STATES VALUES THAT ARE, I BELIEVE, ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE VALUES OF THE WEST, AND I'VE SEEN THIS THROUGH MY LIFETIME IN THE UNITED STATES WITH THE IMPORTATION OF A THEOLOGY FROM THE GULF COUNTRIES, INCLUDING SAUDI ARABIA AND QATAR, THAT INCLUDE ISSUES OF INTOLERANCE, SEXISM, AND ULTIMATELY, ALSO, SOMETIMES VIOLENCE.

RIGHT.

WELL, RAZA, WHAT'S YOUR FEELING?

UH, TO ANSWER YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTION, I THINK ANYBODY THAT COMES BACK HOME UH, THAT IS AN AMERICAN, EITHER A-- A RESIDENT OR A CITIZEN, UH, FEELS, UM, AND SAYS, "GOD BLESS AMERICA."

IT IS, UH, BY FAR, UH, THE MOST, UH, WELCOMING PLACE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A NATURALIZED AMERICAN.

JUST A FEW, UM, UH, WEEKS AGO, I HAD A YOUNG EXECUTIVE WHO'S, YOU KNOW, FROM, UH, THE MAIN LINE-- MAIN LINE OF PENNSYLVANIA WHO WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE WHO TRAVELED WITH ME ON BUSINESS TO EUROPE AND ALSO, UH, WENT TO DUBAI AND THEN CAME BACK BY HIMSELF, EVEN--AND SO THE FIRST TIME, I THINK, HE HAD TRAVELED, UH, OUTSIDE, UM, UH, UNITED STATES, AND HE ALSO FELT, UH, WHILE HE WAS IN EUROPE AND HAD SOME--UH, ENJOYED SOME, UH, FINE CULTURE AND DIVERSITY, BUT COMING BACK HOME WAS--WAS REMARKABLY, UH, GREAT FOR HIM, SO I THINK THIS IS NOT JUST UNIQUE FOR AMERICAN MUSLIMS.

IT IS, UH, UNIQUE FOR EVERYONE.

WE HAD ALSO PLANNED TO BE JOINED BY SKYPE FROM MOROCCO BY MANAL OMAR, THE ACTING VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CENTER FOR THE MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA AT THE UNITED STATES INSTITUTE FOR PEACE.

REGRETTABLY, THE GOVERNMENT OF MOROCCO HAS BLOCKED THIS VIDEOCONFERENCE.

WE ASKED HER TO PRERECORD SOME OF HER THOUGHTS ON OUR TOPIC TODAY.

MY NAME IS MANAL OMAR, AND I AM THE ACTING VICE PRESIDENT FOR THE MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA CENTER AT THE U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE.

I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE ABLE TO JOIN THIS DISCUSSION FROM MOROCCO, AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE WORLD AFFAIRS COUNCIL IN PHILADELPHIA FOR INCLUDING ME.

I'VE LIVED ALL MY LIFE IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT IN MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER, I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE IN COUNTRIES ACROSS THE MIDDLE EAST AS WELL AS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.

WHILE I WAS IN THE U.K., I TRAVELED EXTENSIVELY ACROSS EUROPE WITH MY WORK WITH OXFAM, AND I HAVE TO SAY, AS A LIBERAL MUSLIM WOMAN WHO WEARS HIJAB, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER COUNTRY I WOULD WANT TO LIVE IN OTHER THAN THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S A PLACE WHERE I'M BOTH ABLE TO PRACTICE MY LIBERAL, AUTHENTIC VIEWS AS WELL AS PRACTICE MY RELIGION FREELY, AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

ACROSS THE WORLD, WOMEN ARE TURNING TO FAITH AND OTHER MEANS OF BEING ABLE TO SURVIVE, AND MUSLIM WOMEN ARE DOING THE SAME.

OVER AND OVER, MUSLIM WOMEN HAVE TOLD ME IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT FAITH HAS BEEN MANIPULATED THAT THEY FEEL THEY TAR-- THEY ARE TARGETED, AND THEY RECOGNIZE THAT.

THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THE FAITH IS BEING MANIPULATED, BUT THEY ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT TO ENSURE THEIR LIVES AND TO REALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE CHANGE, THEY WANT TO TURN TO THEIR FAITH, AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US NOT TO FURTHER POLARIZE THE COMMUNITY ON WOMEN'S ISSUES AND ONLY APPROACH IT THROUGH A SECULAR APPROACH AND DISMISS ANY ISLAMIC FRAMEWORK OR ISLAMIC APPROACH.

BOTH ARE NEEDED, AND, HOPEFULLY, BOTH SHOULD BE INTEGRATED.

MY MESSAGE IS ALWAYS ONE THING-- THERE ARE UNIVERSAL RIGHTS, AND THEY ALL NEED TO BE PROTECTED.

THIS INCLUDES FOR WOMEN, YOUTH, AND MEN, FOR WOMEN WHO ARE PART OF THE DISABILITY, FOR ALL COMMUNITIES WHO ARE CONSIDERED VULNERABLE, AND I DON'T CARE WHAT FRAMEWORK IS BEING USED.

IF YOU WANT TO USE A SECULAR FRAMEWORK, AN ISLAMIC FRAMEWORK, A SOCIAL FRAMEWORK, THAT'S UP TO EACH COUNTRY.

IT'S UP TO EACH COMMUNITY.

WHAT I WON'T NEGOTIATE ON IS THE RIGHTS AND PRINCIPLES, AND THAT'S WHERE THE FOCUS OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BE.

I WOULD ASK YOU, AS AMERICANS, UH, AND, IN FACT, THIS IS NOT-- THIS IS NOT A--A QUESTION I WOULD ASK SOLELY OF MUSLIMS.

UH, ACTUALLY, THERE ARE CHRISTIAN GROUPS THAT ARE MAKING ISSUES LIKE THIS.

DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS ANYTHING ABOUT AMERICA, UH, THAT REQUIRES YOU TO BE LESS THAN A MUSLIM?

UH, DO YOU--DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO COMPROMISE IN ANY WAY?

HMM, I DON'T THINK SO AT ALL.

NO.

HONESTLY-- HONESTLY, UH, I ALWAYS SAY-- UM, EVEN WHEN I GIVE SPEECHES, I SAY, THE MORE I LIVE AS AN AMERICAN, THE MORE I--I LOVE AMERICA AND THE MORE I APPRECIATE MY FAITH BECAUSE THE PRINCIPLES, UH, THAT GUIDES MY FAITH MAKES ME BETTER AMERICAN, UH, AND THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION BETWEEN BEING AN AMERICAN AND BEING MUSLIM.

UNLIKE THE STEREOTYPE THAT'S PREVALENT IN OUR SOCIETY ABOUT ISLAM AND ISLAMIC PRINCIPLES, I THINK THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ISLAM AND MODERNITY, BETWEEN AMERICAN AND ISLAMIC VALUES.

BOKHARI: RELIGION IS A-- IS A PRIVATE MATTER, AND IF IT IS PRACTICED PRIVATELY-- NOT THAT I WANT TO BE AN APOLOGIST OR A DEFENDER OF EUROPE, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT-- UH, ABOUT EUROPE TO BE AN AUTHORITY-- BUT IF RELIGION WAS TO PRACTICE PRIVATELY-- AS IT SHOULD BE, I WOULD THINK-- SO IT WOULDN'T BE THAT MUCH-- UH, IT WOULD NOT BE THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM, AND--AND ISSUES OF DISCRIMINATION THAT HAVE COME AS A REACTION TO SOME OF THE-- UH, THE CHALLENGES UM, THAT, UH, VIOLENCE, VIOLENCE AND EXTREMISM ARE--ARE BRINGING IN NOT JUST IN EUROPE, BUT ALSO NOW ARE TOUCHING THE SHORES OF THE UNITED STATES.

NOMANI: WELL, YOU KNOW, EARLIER, NIHAD HAD SAID SOMETHING LIKE, "ISLAM IS COMPATIBLE WITH MODERNITY," AND I THINK ANY SENTENCE THAT BEGINS, "ISLAM IS..." IS NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH BECAUSE THERE IS NO SENTENCE THAT IS GONNA BE STARTED, "CHRISTIANITY IS..." EISENHOWER: RIGHT.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A SPECTRUM, AND SO THE CHALLENGE THAT WE FACE IS THE FACT THAT THERE IS A SPECTRUM THAT IS VERY COMPATIBLE WITH MODERNITY AND THERE'S ANOTHER THAT CHALLENGES PAKISTAN, THAT CHALLENGES EUROPE, THAT CHALLENGES THE UNITED STATES THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE, AND SO JUST ONE LITTLE ANECDOTE IS THAT YOUR GRANDFATHER, YOUR WONDERFUL GRANDFATHER, INAUGURATED THE MOSQUE ON MASSACHUSETTS AVENUE... EISENHOWER: OH, YES.

IN 1957, YES.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND YOUR LOVELY GRANDMOTHER WAS THERE.

YES.

SHE HAD ON A DRESS... WELL, ON A--YES.

AND SHE HAD HER HAIR SHOWING, AND I'LL TELL YOU THAT WHEN I WALKED UP TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THAT SAME MOSQUE, I WAS NOT ALLOWED INSIDE.

I WAS SENT TO THE SIDE DOWNSTAIRS NEXT TO THE WOMEN'S RESTROOM INTO A SEPARATE AREA BECAUSE THIS IDEOLOGY IS BEING IMPORTED INTO OUR WESTERN COUNTRIES THAT PRACTICES SEXISM AND INEQUITY, AND IT'S BEING PRESENTED AS IF IT'S ISLAM, AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE BATTLE IS, IN FACT, WITHIN OUR FAITH FOR THE PREVAILING VALUES TO BE ONES THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE WEST.

UM, YOU--YOU'VE RAISED YOUR-- YOU'VE RAISED THIS QUESTION OF SPECTRUM WHICH I'D LIKE TO PUT OUT HERE.

AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UH, THERE IS NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY IN ISLAM.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THIS?

IN OTHER WORDS, UH, HOW CONSISTENT WOULD YOU SAY, UH, THE PRACTICE OF ISLAM IS FROM MUSLIM COUNTRY TO MUSLIM, UH, COUNTRY?

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND MUSLIMS.

EISENHOWER: OK. MM-HMM.

IF YOU--IF YOU CONFLATE THE TWO TOGETHER, THEN YOU HAVE A-- AN UGLY REALITY WHICH IS, LIKE, DISPARITY AND A LACK OF COMMITMENT TO THE ISLAMIC VALUES, SO, TO ME, IN MY-- IN MY PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING, ISLAM IS A BEAUTIFUL RELIGION, IS A, UM, SYSTEM OF THOUGHT, SYSTEM OF, UH, PRACTICES AND--AND CONVICTION, UH, AND ISLAM TAKES DIFFERENT FORM AND SHAPE ACCORDING TO THE SOCIETY IT LIVED OR IT LIVES, UH, IN, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE, UH, YOU KNOW-- INDONESIA IS THE LARGEST COUNTRY THAT HAS MUSLIMS, BUT YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THE-- WHAT KIND OF ISLAM PEOPLE LIVE IN INDONESIA.

UH, OUR MINDS HAVE BEEN FIXATED ON THE MIDDLE EAST.

ARABS WHERE ISLAM WAS REVEALED IN-- IN ARABIAN PENINSULA ARE 14 OR LESS PERCENT OF THE TOTAL MUSLIM POPULATION IN THE WORLD, UM, AND, AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER IN--IN MY FIRST COMMENT HERE ON THE PROGRAM, ISLAM PROMOTES AND CELEBRATES, LIVES, AND BELIEVES IN DIVERSITY, SO, IN OTHER WORDS, I BORROW NOW FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING JR... EISENHOWER: RIGHT.

WHEN HE SAID--AND I--I PARAPHRASE IN HIS--HIS, UH, YOU KNOW, SPEECH-- THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BE JUDGED BASED ON THE CONTENT OF MY CHARACTER, NOT THE COLOR OF MY SKIN, SO--SO, AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON WHO...

RIGHT.

UNDERSTANDS THIS FAITH AND HOW THEY PRACTICE IT.

UH, HOW DO YOU SEPARATE RELIGION AND--AND POLITICS?

I'M NOT--YOU KNOW, AMERICA HAS HAD CENTURIES OF EXPERIENCE WITH THIS, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE EVER SATISFACTORILY RESOLVED IT.

TO GIVE YOU A CASE IN POINT, UH, JOHN KENNEDY GIVES A VERY STIRRING, UH, SPEECH IN 1960 BEFORE THE HOUSTON MINISTERIAL CONFERENCE IN WHICH HE SAYS, UH, "I'M NOT THE CATHOLIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT.

"I'M A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS TO BE CATHOLIC."

LET ME STRESS AGAIN THAT THESE ARE MY VIEWS, FOR, CONTRARY TO COMMON NEWSPAPER USAGE, I AM NOT THE CATHOLIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT.

I AM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS ALSO TO BE A CATHOLIC.

I DO NOT SPEAK FOR MY CHURCH ON PUBLIC MATTERS, AND THE CHURCH DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME.

WHATEVER ISSUE MAY COME BEFORE ME AS PRESIDENT IF I SHOULD BE ELECTED ON BIRTH CONTROL, DIVORCE, CENSORSHIP, GAMBLING, OR ANY OTHER SUBJECT, I WILL MAKE MY DECISION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THESE VIEWS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT MY CONSCIENCE TELLS ME TO BE IN THE NATIONAL INTEREST AND WITHOUT REGARD TO OUTSIDE RELIGIOUS PRESSURE OR DICTATES.

UH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY IN PUBLIC LIFE-- EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES, WHERE WE, UH, OBSERVE A STRICT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE-- TO ENTIRELY DISENTANGLE, UH, QUESTIONS OF FAITH, UH, STATECRAFT, AND HOW WE LIVE.

UH, I--I THINK THERE ARE TWO WAYS, TWO SUCCESSFUL MODELS-- ONE IS MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN THE OTHER-- TO DEAL WITH RELIGION AND POLITICS.

THE EUROPEAN EXPERIENCE WITH--WITH FAITH, OR CHRISTIANITY IN GENERAL, ENDED UP PROTECTING THE STATE FROM RELIGION, AND THAT'S WHY THE BASIS OF THE SEPARATION BETWEEN RELIGION AND STATE IN EUROPE, UH, BASED ON THE HISTORIC EXPERIENCE OF THE RELIGIOUS DOGMA AND THE PERSECUTION OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF ADHERENCE TO CERTAIN UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY IN EUROPE, AND THAT'S WHY THEY ENDED UP SEPARATING CHURCH FROM STATE TO PROTECT THE STATE.

IN THE UNITED STATES, IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT.

THE REL--THE EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA IS TO PROVIDE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND TO PROTECT THE--THE--YOU KNOW, THE RELIGION FROM THE STATE INTERVENTION, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION THAT CONGRESS--AND IT'S INSCRIBED ON THE NEWSEUM, THIS BUILDING, OUTSIDE-- THAT "CONGRESS SHALL NOT-- SHALL NOT--" EISENHOWER: "SHALL MAKE NO LAW--" AWAD: SHALL MAKE NO LAW ABOUT--ABOUT RELIGION BUT TO PROTECT THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

IT DID NOT SPECIFY.

IS IT CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, ISLAM, BUDDHISM?

ANY SINCERELY HELD BELIEF, RELIGIOUS BELIEF, THAT IS IN LINE WITH THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION, WITH THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF LAWS IS WELCOME, AND THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THE SEPARATION OF POWER THAT WE ENDED UP WITH IN THE UNITED STATES BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE, THE JUDICIAL, UH, AND THE, UM--THE LEGISLATIVE IS A PERFECT FORMULA.

UH, WE'RE AT A CROSSROADS, UH, RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE LOOKING AT A-- UH, POTENTIALLY, UH, A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS.

UH, WE ARE--THINGS ARE BEING FRAMED IN THIS WAY.

RIGHT.

EISENHOWER: WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?

UH, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS INTENSITY IN WORDS, CERTAINLY ON AMERICAN TELEVISION.

UH, WE ARE ACTUALLY NOT, UH, ENGAGED IN BATTLE MUCH.

UH, AT THE MOMENT, WE'RE ENGAGED SOME.

UH, THIS IS A RATHER SMALL-SCALE WAR, COMPARED TO OTHERS.

WHAT CAN AMERICA FRUITFULLY DO TO ASSIST, UH, IN THIS AREA?

ARE WE, IN YOUR ANALYSIS AS AMERICANS AND AS MUSLIMS, UH, HEADED TOWARDS A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS, AND, ANTICIPATING YOUR RESPONSES, UH, HOW--HOW CAN WE, UH, MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOES NOT, IN FACT, OCCUR?

NOMANI: I BELIEVE WE HAVE A CLASH, AND WHAT I BELIEVE THE WEST NEEDS TO DO IS, IT NEEDS TO STAND UP ON THE SIDE OF THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING REFORMATION IN OUR MUSLIM COMMUNITY OF THE KIND OF VALUES THAT AMERICA BELIEVES IN, WHICH IS SECULAR GOVERNANCE, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, AND PEACEFUL EXPRESSION OF RELIGION.

THE FUTURE CAN REFLECT OUR ABILITY OR INABILITY TO ENVISION A BETTER WAY OF LIFE.

UM, TODAY WE ARE HERE BECAUSE WE LEARN FROM THE PAST, BUT WE ADVANCE BECAUSE WE--WE ARE HOPEFUL AND WE LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE.

WE MAKE--WE--WE LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES.

WE LEVERAGE, UH, AGAIN, OUR DIVERSITY.

SEE, THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE TODAY IS, WE DO NOT APPRECIATE ONE ANOTHER.

RIGHT.

SOME PEOPLE CAN BUILD THEIR DEFENSES BASED ON RELIGIOUS, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S ALL POLITICAL YEAH.

BECAUSE THE--THE VALUES OF CHRISTIANITY, THE VALUES OF JUDAISM, AND THE VALUES OF ISLAM ARE THE SAME, WHICH IS TO LIFT UP HUMANITY, SO THE FAILURE OF PEOPLE TO ACCOMMODATE ONE ANOTHER, TO APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENCES REFLECTS ON THE RESULTS AND THEIR LIFE, YOU KNOW, THEY-- YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF LIFE THEY HAD.

THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SUNNI AND SHIA, UH, STARTED RELIGIOUS, RIGHT.

BUT IT ENDED UP POLITICAL, SO WHAT--WHAT WE LOOK AT TODAY, IT'S REALLY-- IT'S ABOUT POLITICS AND POWER.

IT'S NOT ABOUT RELIGION.

BOKHARI: IT IS POLITICAL.

IT'S ALSO LACK OF EDUCATION.

UH, SECTARIAN INTOLERANCE, UH, BETWEEN SHIA AND SUNNI IS NOT A PRESENT-DAY PHENOMENON.

IT STARTED RIGHT AFTER THE PASSING OF THE HOLY PROPHET ON THE DISPUTE OF THE-- THE CALIPHATE, AND, BY AND LARGE, THE--THE SHIA MUSLIMS UH, WERE GENERALLY, UH, MORE LIBERAL AND MORE SECULAR, WHICH IS THE IRAN--THE IRANIAN, OR THE PERSIANS', UH, VERSION, BUT AFTER, UH, THE REVOLUTION OF IRAN BY AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI, THEY ALSO BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE, MM.

UH, AGGRESSIVE RIGHT.

AND VIOLENT AND HOSTILE, SO TO--TO THAT EXTENT BUT TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, UM, WHERE YOU HAD SAID THAT WHAT CAN THE UNITED STATES DO-- AND I THINK, UH, IT CAN AND IT MUST ENGAGE-- IT CAN, I BELIEVE-- CAN BE IN BED WITH THE-- THE GOVERNMENT OF QATAR AND SAUDI ARABIA TO WHAT ASRA HAS MENTIONED AND ALSO PROMOTE AND LEVERAGE THAT RELATIONSHIP, LEVERAGE THAT AFFILIATION TO ENCOURAGE AND PUSH THOSE MUSLIM LEADERS AND, UH, THOSE, UH, UH, IN THE REGION TO ACTUALLY, UH, GIVE FREEDOM TO WOMEN AND EDUCATION.

EDUCATION IS THE KEY, SO I THINK IF WE WOULD EXPECT THE UNITED STATES TO-- TO DISENGAGE, UH, WHICH IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PRESENT-DAY, UH, ADMINISTRATION, IT'S PART OF THE SOLUTION.

EISENHOWER: WELL, I THINK WE'VE ARRIVED AT A-- I WOULD SAY, A, UH, VERY INTERESTING PLACE WHICH IS, UH, A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION, AND THAT IS, UH, IS AMERICA-- AND WE'RE ALL AMERICANS HERE-- UH, IS AMERICA TO REMAIN ENGAGED, UH, WITH PEOPLE OVERSEAS?

WE'RE NOT SURE WHETHER WE'RE MAKING MISTAKES OR WHETHER--UH, WHETHER WE ARE ACCOMPLISHING A GREAT DEAL, BUT WE MUST REMAIN ENGAGED.

THIS IS A--THIS COULD NOT BE A MORE, UH, IMPORTANT SUBJECT, AND WE ARE ALL VERY GRATEFUL TO EVERYBODY FOR BEING PART OF IT.

NOMANI: YES.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

WHILE NO CULTURE HOLDS A MONOPOLY ON EITHER GOOD OR EVIL, IT SEEMS TO ME BEYOND DISPUTE THAT IN THESE OPENING YEARS OF THE 21st CENTURY, EXTREMISTS WITHIN THE ISLAMIC WORLD-- WITH THEIR WEBCAST BEHEADINGS, BURNINGS, AND THEIR INSISTENCE ON THE TREATMENT OF WOMEN AND GIRLS AS PROPERTY-- HAVE EARNED FOR THEMSELVES A DISPROPORTIONATE MARKET SHARE OF EVILDOING.

IT'S NOT SURPRISING, THEN, THAT IN THE WESTERN WORLD, CERTAINLY INCLUDING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE HAS ARISEN A REDUCTIONIST VIEW WHICH INCREASINGLY EQUATES ISLAM WITH THE EVIL PERPETRATED BY THE MOST EXTREME PEOPLE WHO CLAIM ADHERENCE TO THAT FAITH, BUT AS OUR DISCUSSION ON "THE WHOLE TRUTH" HAS SHOWN, THERE ARE MANY VIEWS AND VOICES WITHIN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, AND THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF AMERICAN MUSLIMS, IN PARTICULAR, ARE SIMPLY SEEKERS OF THE AMERICAN DREAM SHARED ACROSS ALL RELIGIOUS AND ETHNIC LINES IN OUR COUNTRY, SO I HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT THE WHOLE TRUTH OF THE MATTER OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN ISLAM AND BETWEEN ISLAM AND THE WESTERN WORLD IN OUR TIME IS NOT A CLASH BETWEEN TWO IRRECONCILABLE CIVILIZATIONS, BUT RATHER A CLASH OVER CIVILIZATION ITSELF BETWEEN THOSE OF ALL FAITHS WHO ADHERE TO THE VALUES OF UNIVERSAL RIGHTS VERSUS THOSE WHO DO NOT, AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT THOSE WHO WOULD DO INTENTIONAL VIOLENCE TO INNOCENTS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM OR OF ANY OTHER IDEOLOGY USED TO JUSTIFY SUCH CRIMES MUST BE OPPOSED, BUT I WOULD REMIND ALL OF US, IN THE WORDS OF FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE IN HIS WORK "BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL," "WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT "THAT IN THE PROCESS, HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER," AND, "IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO AN ABYSS, THE ABYSS WILL GAZE BACK AT YOU."

THANKS FOR WATCHING "THE WHOLE TRUTH."

I'M DAVID EISENHOWER.

ANNOUNCER: THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.