- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," we explore the worlds of comics and gaming, and how both industries have impacted by the contributions of Black creators, characters, and communities.

We'll discuss how the evolution of diverse storytelling and the ongoing quest for equitable representation shapes the future of media.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Through the lens of Black narratives and representation, comic books become more than just entertainment.

They've become a mirror reflecting the diverse layers of the human experience, a platform for empowerment, and sometimes even social justice change.

Our guest today will enlighten us on the work they're doing in both comics and gaming.

To start us off, I want to welcome our first guest.

He is a comic book writer and author of "Black Justice: The Awakening."

I'd like to introduce Dr. David Washington.

Welcome to the show.

- Kenia, thank you for having me.

- Thank you.

I just want to say that this isn't my copy, but this is the TV copy, but I got my very own copy.

It's so beautifully done.

I would just love for you to share with us what was the inspiration behind this and why was this important for you to create.

- So the inspiration behind this.

So, Kenia, first, again, thank you for having me on the show.

- [Kenia] Of course.

- You and Deborah are lights of hope and inspiration in the media space, so we appreciate you both for what you're doing.

So the book, when I first came into it, I'm a huge action film fan.

I love the genre, really enjoy it.

And my family and I actually work around that genre.

Really appreciate it.

So on Fridays we have family Friday night, and so we sit together watching these.

But the one problem I found was that in many cases, our representation wasn't present.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- And I just wanted to make sure that my children could see themselves in their heroes.

So I decided to step forward and start moving that in that direction.

And then the next piece that became really important to me was.

In addition to representation, also the concept of the social issues that we can cover within the context of a graphic novel or a comic book.

Because for a moment, we can suspend reality and engage in a dialogue that allows for a person to be able to see some of those issues that we're having to contend with and face with in a narrative that allows for that to happen.

So I talk about the concept of privilege.

I talk about the concept of Black and Brown life being lost, and then what is the effect of that?

And we go in through these discussions throughout the entire book, and it's done in a way where people can get in on the message.

Because right now, unfortunately, sometimes these terms have been weaponized, and it turns people off and they're like, "I don't want to hear about that stuff."

But if we can open that dialogue, some great things can happen.

- So how do you balance it though?

Because we have children that are reading these books, and while it is important for them to be aware of some of the social justice things, but we don't want to make it too heavy, right?

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- And so how do you, what is that fine art of balancing?

- Action with a message, you know?

So we put the cookies on the shelves where the kids can get them.

We make it very easy for people to get in on a dialogue.

So when I wrote this book, I looked at it and said, "Hey, I have a deep action lexicon."

Let's put that to work and let's make it entertaining.

And so the entertainment piece, when we're putting that in place, you can have engagement, and you can have education.

I like to refer to as the three Es.

You can entertain, engage, and educate.

And so what we end up doing there is in the book, we have that dialogue, but it's based around those actions that are there.

So a story that actually comes out of the book is one where Black Justice ends up meeting another superhero Apex.

And the word if breaks out an entire fight, a whole fight comes out at the word if, because Apex says, "Oh, if that's true, then these things will be taken care of."

And Black Justice has to inform them about, you know, like there's a reality that you're not quite attuned to.

And then from that, all chaos breaks loose.

I can't tell you all of it.

It'll spoil it for you.

But what ends up happening is they go through that process.

So I've taken action and actually allowed action to lead the discussion around social issues, so that way it's natural because readers know when they're being pushed in a direction.

But if you just lay it out and say, "Hey, it naturally comes about," a lot of times it works out well.

- Yeah, that sounds great.

I know that representation is a big reason why you created this piece.

We've seen historically, even when there were Black characters, they were changed into white characters.

And we've seen most recently kind of this resurgence, or this surge of having Black representation.

So let's talk about kind of the history of representation in comics and just in media as a whole and how you are working to change that narrative.

- So a lot of times, unfortunately, our characters have been brought forth, and they are shells of what they should be.

In many cases, they have been watered down, or the representation's not very strong when the character's being brought forward, or it's being written from a perspective that's essentially a trope or stereotype that doesn't really give the fullness of Blackness.

And so what I started looking at, and I said, you know, representation is very important.

And what we have to do is we really have to foster and cultivate that, but it has to be authentic.

And so one of the things you'll see, the reason back in 2018, why "Black Panther" was such a good hit was because it spoke to that, it gave that.

You got to see a Black superhero that was not a sidekick, that was a person that was upfront and taking charge and doing those things that any other hero would do.

But for us, it's been reserved, and it hasn't been there.

And so I said, let's continue that path, let's that that motion forward.

Because the key part about it is, as people can see in the narrative themselves, they can see themselves as heroes.

It encourages them to be heroic themselves in real life.

And that's one of the things that I'm trying to do here, because we need more people with that idea in mind.

We need more people that are willing to say, "Hey, let's step forward and try something new."

Let's usher in the process of peace through the actions of progress.

Let's make those things happen.

Let's get to a point where we can say, "Hey, we can speak truth to power."

Because today, now more than ever, we need heroic people.

We need them.

- Real life heroic people.

- Real life heroic people.

But that starts from narrative.

Narrative invites that.

- Yeah, when I think about representation too, it's not just for Black kids, Black people, having Black representation is important for all people.

- Absolutely.

What does it do when we start to normalize seeing Black people to white people, to Hispanics, to other demographics, what does that do for them and their perspective of us?

- It helps to tear down those stereotypes because one of the things that we end up having is we have situations by which some people may not interact with a Black person and their whole world may be shaped by media.

And because of that trope that they've seen or that stereotype that's been pushed, they start to cast us in that light.

And the danger in that is when they do finally get a chance to interact with us and come in contact with us, they have a lot of baggage that has not been properly processed through, and they have been informed by media space that only sees us in this much capacity when we're all this much capacity.

And so there is a good part in there.

In fact, if you can go back 1915, when you look back at D. W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation", this is a quintessential example of that.

And so what ends up happening in "Birth of a Nation", Black people are cast, Black men particularly are cast as these feral beasts, right?

That need to be put away and dealt with and have to be under control.

And the only people who can save them and can save this process is the Klan.

The Klan becomes the hero of the story, which unfortunately many people bit down on that and they move forward with that concept and said, "Hey, this is reality.

This is how it is."

When quite frankly, that is not how it is.

And so the inclusion of Blackness, the inclusion of people of color in main roles and leads actually helps everyone.

It informs people.

It also starts to tear down the walls of what a person should do and what a person should be.

Because the glass ceilings that come about in life come because of some perceptions that people have.

Well, you don't do that or your people don't do that.

Well, no, my people do that and my people excel in that if given the opportunity to engage with it.

So the narrative from comics can help to shape that concept, change that narrative, and improve the situation.

And one thing I always like to say, a good strong Black superhero is not just exclusive for Black people.

That's a good example for anyone.

- Yeah, for humankind.

What makes people love comics so much?

- You know, it's the ability to kind of escape from the realities of what's going on but be able to look at different things, new worlds, new engagements, new opportunities.

The reason why I was drawn to write in this specific genre is that people now are moving away from just traditional readings of novels and things of that nature and they're moving more into the graphic novels.

And I thought it would be more poignant to come in and say, "Hey, let's go ahead and do a graphic novel versus in a novel about this subject matter," and go ahead and move that forward from there.

And I found that people really responded well to it.

In fact, one of the things we had, "Black Justice" has actually made the Amazon Best Sellers list in March.

And we're continuing to keep pushing it forward.

So I think that people are picking up with the message, they're enjoying the process.

- So what is next?

I know it's bigger than the comic book.

So what's next for you?

- We have Washington Comix which holds "Black Justice" in our universe.

And we are moving it into the intellectual ecosystem.

It's what I like to call it.

We have an intellectual ecosystem that looks at the end in mind.

And my end is to saturate the market with different ways and points of entry to the source material.

So, you know, we are looking at gaming, we're looking at the ideas around movies.

In fact, "Black Justice" the novel has already been moved over into a screenplay, and the screenplay has already been moved out to Hollywood.

So later this summer, we're gonna be going out having discussions about how we can bring that into film.

Action figures are coming about so kids can get those.

And then, we're moving into that space around gaming in about 36 months.

What will end up happening is we will start moving into the area of gaming.

So that way, if a person wants entry into the process.

Maybe they don't read graphic novel, fine, but they'll catch us in the movie.

Maybe you don't catch us in the movie, fine, you'll catch us in the game.

Maybe you don't catch us in the game, fine, you'll catch us in the action figures.

And so the idea is to be a 360 company, a 360 engagement.

So that way, you can hear our narratives, you can hear our stories, and you can be courageous just like us.

- That's great and it's available on Amazon, so folks want to buy it.

They can go on to Amazon right now and purchase, right?

- Absolutely, absolutely, you can also come to Washington Comix and that's C-O-M-I-X.

We went a little differently with that spelling.

So you could follow us there, and you can also give some of our merch and materials and things of that nature for the book as well.

- Well, Dr. David Washington, thank you so much.

Thank you for sharing "Black Justice" with us and we hope our viewers enjoy it as well.

- Absolutely, thank you for having me.

- Of course, thank you.

Well, esports has been around a lot longer than most of us realize.

And like the comic industry, Black representation has been a struggle.

This week's Melanin Moment gives us a look into where we started and how far we've come.

[bright music] The history of gaming and esports within the Black community is a dynamic and evolving narrative that reflects both challenges and triumphs.

In the early years of gaming, arcades provided a social space where gamers from all backgrounds could come together to compete and connect.

But due to various social factors including racial segregation, access to arcades and gaming consoles, it was not always equitable.

Despite these barriers, Black gamers found ways to engage with gaming culture, whether through community centers, friends' homes, or school gatherings.

The rise of esports in the late 20th and early 21st centuries brought new opportunities for Black gamers to showcase their skills and compete on a global scale.

Today, the Black gaming community continues to thrive with a diverse array of voices and perspectives contributing to the vibrant tapestry of gaming culture.

[dramatic upbeat music] In the world of esports, Black gamers and creators stand as pillars of innovation and inspiration, but they're often overlooked.

Through the lens of Black narratives and representation, esports and gaming have become more than just pastimes.

They've become pathways to careers and advancement in technology.

To talk about the work that they're doing in the esports and gaming space, we invite our next guest to the show.

I'd like to welcome the owner of North Carolina Esports Academy in Cary, North Carolina, Vinny Smith, welcome.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- You know, I just realized I told you this morning, my son has been to the Academy.

I didn't make the connection.

I think it was around the pandemic time or right after, actually, right after Pandemic.

And I remember him saying, "Mom, it was so fun!"

It was so fun, he enjoyed it.

Tell us a little bit about the Academy.

You and your son, your son's Caleb, my son's Caleb.

- That's right.

- The two of you created this space, why?

- Well, we both grew up playing video games and I really saw this as it's a really great path, starting out with video games to- lead to other avenues within the field of technology.

I started out playing video games.

It led me to wondering how video games were made.

My dad bought me some books on programming.

I began programming and ended up majoring in computer science at the Naval Academy.

My son, we would play video games together.

He was actually playing soccer in Germany when he came up with the idea for this business.

And he said, "I wanna take the youth development model that I learned in soccer and bring it into the video game space."

And then he said, "There's another component I wanna tie into that, and it's the education piece."

And so now we have this education and youth development video gaming center, where we have STEM camps.

We do technology programs and have esports teams.

- Nice, so share a little bit more about that youth development 'cause I'm figuring out that that's what makes you different from any other space like this.

So what goes into youth development, and how do you give that to the kids without them realizing that this isn't just gaming?

- Well, absolutely.

So when you talk about how we do it with youth development, we really say we take something that young people, of which is the video games, and we turn into productive experience.

And so what we do is we have, within our camps and all of our programs, we make sure that we take breaks every 45 minutes.

We encourage them to bring water bottles, stay hydrated.

We take breaks three times a day and go outside, getting fresh air, exercise, playing.

We have healthy drinks and snacks.

The things that parents would want their children doing at home, that's what we do.

So we're not telling them to do anything.

It's just part of the program, and it does, it gets instilled into them.

We get a lot of positive feedback from parents that, "Oh, my child is doing this now."

They're, you know, the things that they learned just by being a part of the program.

- And I would imagine anger management's part of that.

I know my son sometimes, he'll be like, "Oh, Mom," or really wouldn't call my name, honestly, right?

But you'd hear the frustration or the anger or sometimes being a poor loser or a sore loser.

How do you work towards eliminating those characteristic behaviors that sometimes come with gaming?

- Well, and that's a great point.

And one of the things I always say is that when you talk about that raging that's in eports, it exists in all sports.

- It does.

- I always say the baseball player throws the bat.

The hockey player throws the stick.

The tennis player throws the racket.

The golf player throws the club.

And we see that as part of the sport.

But when it comes to video games, all of a sudden, parents say, "Oh, video games are bad," because they see their child raging.

But what we do is we never tell the child not to do anything.

We have a technique where we take a knee next to the young person.

And what happens in the game is that they lost.

They made a mistake.

So they get frustrated.

So we actually sit there, and we ask them, "You know, what happened?

You know, what happened during the game?

What did you do?"

And then they start talking, and now they're starting to process, right?

Video games are really good for problem-solving and becoming solution-oriented.

So then what we then ask 'em is, "Okay, what could you have done?"

And then they start telling us, "Well, I could have done this.

I could have done that."

And we have an instructor or coach there who also can provide some ideas.

So now as they're starting to play the game, without them even knowing it, they're processing in their mind as far as what they can do and what's going on.

And when they do lose or do make a mistake, now they're automatically saying, "Okay, here's what I can do next time," and there comes the solution piece of it.

And so it's teaching them a lesson there.

It removes the raging 'cause the parents come to us and say, "My child isn't raging anymore."

- That's great.

- And this is some of the things that we do to incorporate.

- You made mention that video games is great for problem-solving and processing, and I think a lot of parents feel that video games is rotting the brain, right?

And so how have you seen those that have played video games succeed in school and go on to careers that they attribute video game-playing to their success?

- Well, I mean, two examples, you know, are Caleb and myself as far as that's why I went on to major in computer science.

And then actually when I got out of the Navy, the first job that I took, because I said, "I went to school for four years.

I have this degree I would like to use," and I went to work for upcoming Electronic Data Systems, EDS, in IT.

And I did some systems engineer work with them.

And Caleb through the process of video games, that's how he came up with the idea of this business, where he said, "I want to be a trailblazer in esports, and I wanna really revolutionize this space."

And when he came up with that education youth development model, that's what he was able to do.

And so when you say solution-oriented, he saw where he could solve a problem and really help.

And so I think that that's what video games, you know, really can do, and it's very important we do it in a productive manner, in a productive environment.

- Similar to what Dr. Washington and I talked about as far as representation, how have you seen the change happen in video games?

Or has there been change in representation in video games?

I don't play very many, so I can't answer that question for myself.

But have you seen Black representation increase in video games?

- I would say very slowly, and it's an area that we can improve upon.

And I think one of the things that we've seen to be very positive is we've worked with various organizations.

One is Black Girls Code, Young Men 4 Christ, where there are a lot of real representation are Black young men.

There's a Sampson Center in Clinton, where the majority of population is Black.

And so as we work with them, we're exposing them to the technology.

We're exposing them to the different types of career paths that are out there.

And it comes where we're not telling them these career paths exist.

It comes organically, where they start asking questions.

We have a program, and they start asking questions, where it leads to us talking about a server, talking about firewalls, talking about cybersecurity.

And they don't even realize that all of these different areas really exist.

And then they say, "I'm interested in this."

They have a passion in something, and then we allow them to go and to branch off into whatever direction they want to go in.

And so we think that's really a great way for young people to learn.

And our program is structured, but it really allows a lot of flexibility for them to be creative, and that's part of the things that we want them to do.

- Share with us some more professions for those that may not know.

What are some of those professions?

You said programmer, IT, tech, what are some of those professions?

- Well, sure.

So you have programmers, you have designers.

When you think about IT, one thing, one time I was in the hospital, I like to use this example, and I saw there was a robot coming down the hall, and it was the first time I saw this, this was years, years ago.

And I kind of jumped back when I saw this robot.

And a lot of people will say, well, now that robot is taking away jobs.

But if you think about it, well, somebody, as you said, has to design the robot, someone has to program it, there's a maintenance piece that is going into it.

And so when you talk, there's various jobs and then there are teams that work together and even person will have their kind of niche in that space and bringing all of it together.

So the world of technology, it's so vast.

Whether say we're talking about cybersecurity, that's another avenue.

Video game design.

There's just so many different paths that are out there.

And then there's the skills that even learn that you can even incorporate into another profession as well, even if you don't go down the route of video games.

That creative, that solution oriented, that problem solving that helps people become entrepreneurs 'cause entrepreneur is just someone who solves problems.

So as you learn these skills, you can branch off to any other avenue.

- Now, one other, I guess, frustration that parents may have is that video gaming seems like it's isolating the child.

How does your academy help to solve that potential issue of isolation and lack of socialization?

- Well, the great thing about what we do at our academy is that it brings young people that have that at least basic interest that brings like-minded young people together where they're not locking themselves in a room hours on end, not taking breaks.

And as I said, when they come to our space, they're learning, even though they don't realize they're learning, when they go home to apply those same principles.

And so that is one of the big things is that the young people, they really do grasp a lot of the, just like I said, the principles that that parent wants them to have at home.

- Now, the age range for kids at the academy is six to 13.

- Six to 13.

Wonderful, so that's a great, I guess very impressionable time where you can really make an impact on maybe decisions that they'll make when they go on to high school and college.

- Right.

- Talk about collaborations in community and how do you help foster avenues for them to follow?

- Right, well, one of the things that we know is we reached out to a lot of municipalities and youth organizations, parks and recs.

And one of the things that they mentioned to us is that we love what you're doing when our young people will be able to take part in your program.

But the issue is us getting them to you.

So what we did was we came up with a mobile services program.

We invested in laptops and we go out into the community in order to take our programs into the community.

So that's how we partner with the community.

In 2022, we went out into three counties within North Carolina.

At that point in time, name was Triangle eSports Academy.

Last year we changed our name to North Carolina eSports Academy.

We went from three counties in 2022 to 20 counties last year.

So again, when we talk about being solution oriented, there was a problem that was expressed to us, how can we help?

- Yeah.

- And that's what we're able to do.

So now we're expanding our programs to be able to reach more youth.

- That's amazing, if folks wanna find out about further expansion or how to get their children involved in the academy, where do they go and what's the next step?

- Well, they can do is they can go out onto our website and it's NCeSportsacademy.com and it tells a lot about what we do on the website and talks about our programs, and they can sign their son or daughter up for one of our camps.

And that's one of the best ways for them to get started.

- Yeah, and I feel like we were a little biased in our conversation, girls game too.

And that's a beautiful experience for them as well.

- Well, yes, and that's exactly right.

And that's another one of the areas where technology and the jobs that exist, we see underrepresentation when it comes to women as well.

And that's where we do really wanna expose it for them.

- Thank you so much Vinny Smith, thank you for being here.

- Yeah, thank you for having me.

- All right, and I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackIssuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson, I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.