♪ >>> TO CONVICT OR NOT TO CONVICT AND THE RELIABILITY OF THE COVID DATA.

♪ >> JOINING US ON COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD THIS WEEK, JACKIE BORCHARDT WITH THE USA TODAY NETWORK.

DERRICK CLAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND MARK WEAVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

AFTER A WEEK OF TESTIMONY, ALL EYES ARE ON REPUBLICAN SENATORS LIKE ROB PORTMAN TO SEE IF THEY WILL STICK BY DONALD TRUMP OR CONVICT HIM IN THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL.

DEMOCRATS LAID OUT THEIR CASE WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE, CLAIMING THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S FALSE CLAIMS OF A TOLLEN ELECTION.

THE PRESIDENT'S DEFENDERS CLAIM TRUMP'S RHETORIC IS PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND CONVICTING A PRESIDENT AFTER HE LEAVES OFFICE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

CONVICTION IS POSSIBLE.

THE ONLY HOPE OF PUNISHING THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

DERRICK CLAY, THE PRESIDENT'S LAWYERS WRAPPED UP THE CASE FRIDAY AFTERNOON.

THEY WERE SAYING THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN URGING THEIR SUPPORTERS TO FIGHT LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS.

THAT WAS THEIR CASE.

HOW ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE PRESIDENT BEING CONVICTED IN THIS TRIAL?

>> WELL, I'M CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT SHOWN ANY BACK BONE ON THIS ISSUE.

WE HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT HAS INCITED A RIOT AT OUR NATION'S CAPITOL, THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE, AND THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ALTHOUGH THEY SAY THEY ARE SHOCKED AND INCENSED BY WHAT THEY'VE SEEN ON TV AND WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED BY THE HOUSE MANAGERS, THEY STILL DON'T WANT CONVICTION.

THERE'S AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF REPUBLICANS THAT WILL NOT CONVICT TRUMP IN THIS CASE.

IT IS VERY SAD.

>> HE WILL NOT FACE THE VOTERS AGAIN OR PRIMARY ELECTION VOTERS.

WHAT IS IN IT FOR HIM IF HE VOTE TO CONVICT PRESIDENT TRUMP IF HE FELT LIKE HIS ACTIONS LED TO THIS RIOT?

>> I THINK ROB PORTMAN WILL COULD THAT CLUED THAT THE ACTIONS DID NOT LEAD TO THE RIOT, ANY MORE THAN THE BLACK LIVES MATTER OR WHAT WE SAW THIS SUMMER.

THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN PORTLAND OR AT THE WHITE HOUSE MAY 29th.

WE DON'T BLAME POLITICIANS WHO USE INFLAMMATORY LANGUAGE BECAUSE NEARLY ALL OF THEM DO.

WE BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO BROKE THE WINDOWS, THREW THE ROCKS, USED THE STICKS, TRESPASS AND ALL THE OTHER EVIL THINGS THAT WERE DONE AND THE LEGISLATIVE CAPITAL AND THE JUDICIAL CAPITAL IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH CAPITAL.

WE HOLD THE CRIMINALS RESPONSIBLE.

WE HAVE A LONG LINE OF PEOPLE TO IMPEACH OR PUNISH IF WE WERE HOLDING POLITICIANS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC.

>> MANY OF THE PROTESTERS AT THE CAPITOL SAID THEY WERE DOING WHAT DONALD TRUMP WANTED THEM TO DO.

I DIDN'T SEE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTERS SAY THAT NANCY PELOSI TOLD THEM TO PROTEST OR, THEY'RE SAYING DONALD TRUMP WANTED THEM TO DO THIS.

AND OF COURSE, MANY OF THEM ARE CARRYING TRUMP FLAGS.

>> AT THE CONGRESSIONAL BASEBALL FIELD MOTIVATED BY BERNIE SANDERS CALLING ON HEALTH CARE, WHAT HE FALSELY CLAIMED REPUBLICANS WANT PEOPLE TO DIE.

HE ACTUALLY SHOUTED THE WORD HEALTH CARE AS HE WAS SHOUTING AT THE REPUBLICANS.

MOST PEOPLE HEARD DONALD TRUMP DID NOT BREAK THE WINDOWS.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THE MALL THAT DAY WERE PROTESTING IN THE TERM OF 2020, MOSTLY PEACEFULLY.

IT IS THE FEW HUNDRED WHO BROKE INTO THE CAPITOL, THE INSURRECTIONISTS WHO NEED TO BE IMPRISONED JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE AT THE WHITE HOUSE ON MAY 29 WHO TRIED TO BREACH THE GATES.

IT WASN'T MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO DID THAT.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE MAY 29 WERE PROTESTING LAWFULLY, PEACEFULLY.

BUT THE ONES WHO BRAEXED THE GATES.

>> DO YOU WANT TO GET IN HERE?

>> IF COULD I REBUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.

MARK, YOU KNOW, THAT I RESPECT YOU.

YOU ARE A FRIEND OF MINE BUT THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

THAT WASN'T JUST A FEW PEOPLE THAT WENT TO THAT CAPITOL AND BROKE A FEW WINDOWS AND KICKED IN A FEW DOORS.

THOSE WERE THOUSANDS OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO WENT IN AND WENT AT THE PRESIDENT'S DIRECTION.

HE INCITED A RIOT AND MOBBED THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.

THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF THIS.

PEOPLE DIED.

>> I SAID HUNDREDS.

THERE WERE HUNDREDS.

ALL OF THEM SHOULD GO TO PRISON.

HUNDREDS ATTACKED AT THE COURTHOUSE.

EVERY ONE OF THEM SHOULD GO TO PRISON AND THEY WERE HOLDING SIGNS THAT SAID BLACK LIVES MATTER AND YET WE DON'T DO THAT.

THE POLITICIANS WHO INFLAME THEM LIKE BERNIE SANDERS, NANCY PELOSI, BARACK OBAMA, DONALD TRUMP, WE DO THAT POLITICALLY AT THE BALLOT BOX.

>> WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WERE CITING THE PRESIDENT VERBATIM.

>> TO GO TO THE CAPITOL, TO DO THAT.

THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT WERE SAYING HANG THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

FROM THEIR OWN PARTY.

HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHO SAID DEATH TO AMERICA WAS, BUT SHE WAS WITH THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTERS.

I DON'T BLAME THE POLITICIANS.

I BLAME THE CRIMINALS.

AND THEY SHOULD GO TO PRISON WHETHER THEY ATTACK THE WHITE POLITICIANS SAY INFLAMMATORY THINGS AS WE'VE SEEN FROM NANCY PELOSI AND BERNIE SANDERS AND OF COURSE DONALD TRUMP.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT.

HE LAUNCHED HIS SENATE BID THIS WEEK.

HOW ARE OHIOAN REPUBLICANS DEALING WITH THIS?

CONVICTION OR ACQUITTAL, ARE SOME FOLKS GOING TO USE THIS DOWN THE ROAD IN 2022 TO USE AGAINST THEIR OPPONENT?

DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN?

>> I THINK FROM THE VERY POLITICAL SIDE OF THINGS WE'RE SEEING SUPPORT FOR THE PRESIDENT, OR AT LEAST OPPOSITION TO IMPEACHING HIM A SECOND TIME.

YOU KNOW, SENATOR ROB PORTMAN, HE WAS NOT AMONG THE REPUBLICANS THAT VOTED FOR DEMOCRATS OVER THE NOTION OF WHETHER THIS SHOULD CONTINUE, WHETHER IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

HE SAID THAT HE HAD HIS DOUBTS THAT IT IS EVEN CONSTITUTIONAL TO IMPEACH A FORMER PRESIDENT.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING.

THAT THIS SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL IS JUST TOTALLY OUT OF LINE, AND THAT IF DEMOCRATS WANT TO, THEY SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

MANY.

THIS IS DIVIDED THE COUNTRY.

WE'VE SEEN IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE TO REPLACE ROB PORTMAN BECAUSE THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A HEATED PRIMARY.

A LOT OF RHETORIC PUSHING IT TO THE RIGHT, SUPPORTING PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OPPOSING THIS WHOLE IMPEACHMENT SECOND ROUND OF IMPEACHMENT.

>> WE ARE RECORDING THIS ON LATE FRIDAY.

THE PRESIDENT'S LAWYERS HAVE JUST RESTED THEIR CASE.

THERE'S A CHANCE IF YOU'RE WATCHING THIS ON SUNDAY, THIS WHOLE THING COULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED BY NOW.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT URGES THE OUT.

AS IT TURNS OUT, SOME 4,000 OHIOANS DIED OF COVID THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

NOT A SMALL NUMBER.

ABOUT A THIRD OF THE STATE'S TOTAL COVID DEATH TOLL.

STATE OFFICIALS SAY THEY ARE STILL INVESTIGATING WHAT WENT WRONG BUT THEY BLAME THE ERROR ON ONE EMPLOYEE WHO COULD NOT KEEP ONE THE SURGING NUMBER OF DEATH CERTIFICATES THAT WERE COMING IN LAST FALL.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S PUBLIC HEALTH SAY THEY ARE TAKING STEPS TO RESTORE CONFIDENCE IN THE STATE'S DATA.

>> I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN.

I'M QUITE CONFIDENT OF THE NEW PROCESSES WE HAVE IN PLACE AND THE NEW, CERTAINLY THIS HAD LOOK MUCH DIFFERENT AND BETTER GOING FORWARD.

>> IT CAME IN FRIDAY THAT ONE PERSON HAS RESIGNED.

ANOTHER PERSON HAS BEEN REASSIGNED IN THE WAKE OF THIS MISTAKE, A CLERICAL ERROR THEY'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW.

HOW DID THE STATE MISS THAT MANY PEOPLE?

>> WELL, SO THE STATE OF OHIO LIKE MANY OTHER STATES USES ITS DEATH INFORMATION TWO WAYS.

ONE IS A REAL-TIME REPORTING SYSTEM.

IF YOU GO TO TAKE A CORONAVIRUS TEST AND IT COMES BACK POSITIVE, THEY WILL ENTER YOUR NAME INTO A DATABASE THAT YOU TESTED POSITIVE.

THEN THE NEXT DAY, THE ACCOUNT THAT WE SEE EVERY DAY UPDATED ON THE STATE'S WEBB.

AND THEN THE SECOND WAY THEY FIND OUT SOMEONE HAS DIED IS BY REVIEWING THE DEATH CERTIFICATES AS THEY COME INTO THE BUREAU OF VITAL STATISTICS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

THAT CAN TAKE UP TO SIX MONTHS, ACCORDING TO STATE LAW.

AND SO IN ORDER TO AVOID DOUBLE COUNTING PEOPLE COMING IN THROUGH BOTH AVENUES, THEY HAVE TO COMPARE THE DEATH CERTIFICATE DATA WITH WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN REPORTED BY PHYSICIANS AND LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS AND HOSPITALS.

AND WHAT WE FOUND OUT THIS WEEK IS THAT ONE PERSON, ONE HUMAN, IS THE PERSON WHO REVIEWS THOSE CERTIFICATES AND MAKES SURE THAT IT IS NOT DUPLICATED OR ADDS THAT PERSON WHO DIED TO THE COUNT.

SO AT SOME POINT IN OCTOBER, THAT WAS NOT HAPPENING 100%.

WE DON'T KNOW AT WHAT LEVEL THAT WASN'T HAPPENING.

WE DON'T KNOW WHY IT WASN'T HAPPENING.

WE JUST KNOW, AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE LOOKING BACK IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS, COMPARING OUR STATE DATA TO THE CDC DATA WHICH ALSO RECEIVES DEATH INFORMATION THROUGH A FEDERAL VITAL STATISTICS, YOU CAN SEE IT IN OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, AND MIDDLE DECEMBER WHEN WE WERE REALLY GETTING A LOT OF DEATHS COMING IN, BEING REPORTED, THAT WE WERE OFF BY HUNDREDS PER WEEK.

SO CLEARLY THAT MATCHING THAT HAPPENS, THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT YOUR DEATH CERTIFICATES WERE NOT BEING ADDED TO THE STATE'S TALLY THAT THEY PUT OUT PUBLICLY EVERY DAY.

>> THIS WAS COMING AT A TIME WHEN THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER OFFICIALS WERE CONSIDERING SHUTTING DOWN BARS AND RESTAURANTS COMPLETELY.

IMPOSING A CURFEW, CONSIDERING OTHER THINGS TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE.

BUT THEY WERE NOT GETTING ACCURATE NUMBERS ON DEATHS.

IS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT THE SITUATION WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT DECISION THEY MADE.

IS THERE ANY INDICATION THE DECISIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT LAST FALL HAD THEY HAD ACCURATE NUMBERS?

>> WE ASKED THE DIRECTOR THIS EARLIER THIS WEEK AND ALSO, THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER AND ESSENTIALLY THE ANXIOUS IS NO.

DEATHS HAVE BEEN A LAGGING INDICATOR.

THE MOST LAGGING OF ALL THE INDICATORS WE HAVE THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC, IN THAT THEY FALL, SOMEONE DOESN'T JUST GET THE CORONAVIRUS AND THE NEXT DAY THEY DIE.

USUALLY THERE'S A PERIOD OF SICKNESS.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE ADMITTED TO THE HOSPITAL AND THEY DIE.

SO TO BASE YOUR POLICY DECISION MAKING GOING FORWARD ON SOMETHING LIKE DEATH, YOU'LL BE LOOKING WAY IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST, I DON'T KNOW, SIX MONTHS OR SO.

THE STATE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT HOSPITALIZATIONS AS IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE CURRENTLY IN A HOSPITAL BED SOMEWHERE IN OHIO WITH COVID-19 TO GAUGE WHETHER THE SPREAD IS SEVERE OR NOT.

EVEN WITH CASES, AS WE'VE SEEN, IF YOU INCREASE TESTING BY 50%, YOU MIGHT SEE A SIMILAR BUMP IN YOUR NUMBER OF CASES.

BUT YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SEE A BUMP IN HOSPITALIZATIONS BASED ON TESTING ALONE.

SO HOSPITALIZATIONS IS ONE THING THEY'RE LOOKING AT, AS WELL AS TEST POSITIVITY.

IT IS REALLY A BUNCH OF METRICS.

THE DEATHS HAVE NEVER BEEN THE METRIC USED TO SET GOING FORWARD.

CERTAINLY LOOKING BACK WHEN WE LOOK AT THE POLICY, AND WE WANT TO JUDGE HOW WELL IT WORKS OR DIDN'T WORK, DEATHS ARE PROBABLY THE BEST METRIC THAT YOU CAN USE TO GAUGE LOOKING BACK IN TIME, THE EFFECT OF SOME RESTRICTION OR MITIGATION POLICY.

>> LOOKING AT THE STATE'S MAP THAT SHOWS THE SPREAD ACROSS THE STATE, IT IS STILL GOING RED EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HAD SOME POSITIVE NEWS IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.

THE SPREAD IS STILL AT THE VERY HIGH LEVEL, ACCORDING TO THE STATE OF OHIO AND CDC GUIDELINES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP, THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE MAP, HOW CAN WE TRUST THE NUMBERS?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBERS, MAYBE THE BEST OF ANY GOVERNOR MANAGING CRISIS, BUT HERE'S WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT PANDEMICS.

WE'LL NEVER GET THE EXACT NUMBERS.

ABSENT AUTOPSIES, SOME OF THESE ELDERLY FOLKS DIED OF COVID OR NOT.

WE KNOW THEY DIED WITH COVID.

IN THIS CASE, THIS IS BECAUSE OF HUMAN ERROR.

BUT HIS OFFICE LOOKED INTO THE DATA TO MAKE SURE THE CORRECT DATA IS BEING PUT FORWARD.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK SHOWS THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

I DON'T THINK ANY STATE WILL EVER GET THE EXACT NUMBER.

WE GET THE BEST NUMBERS WE CAN POSSIBLY GET SO OUR POLICY MAKERS CAN MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.

>> THIS CAME AS EUROPE IS FACING A CONTROVERSY AND THERE WERE NURSING HOME DEATHS THAT WEREN'T COUNTED WITH THE EVERY JO ALL DEATH COUNT BECAUSE THE PERSONAL DIED IN THE HOSPITAL EVEN THOUGH THEY CAUGHT IT IN A NURSING HOME.

GIVEN THAT CONTEXT, DOES THAT RAISE A RED FLAG ABOUT THESE NUMBERS?

>> WELL, OF COURSE.

IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT THESE DEATHS WEREN'T ACCOUNTED FOR.

4,000, THAT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE TO NOT BE ACCOUNTED FOR.

AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT GOES BACK TO TRUST AND HOW THE PUBLIC FEELS ABOUT THIS ADMINISTRATION, THE ABILITY TO GET ACCURATE INFORMATION.

NOW, I AGREE TO A CERTAIN POINT THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN, HAS DONE A VERY FINE JOB MAKING SURE THE PUBLIC IS AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON, TRYING TO GET THE BEST POSSIBLE INFORMATION POSSIBLE.

BUT THIS IS A MAJOR NUMBER.

AND ONE THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AND HOPEFULLY, HIS ADMINISTRATION CAN TAKE THE NECESSARY STEPS TO CORRECT IT IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE HAVE AN OFFICIAL CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE.

THE SEAT BEING VACATED BY ROB PORTMAN.

JOSH MANDEL HOPES THE THIRD TIME IS THE CHARM.

HE'S RUN TWICE BEFORE.

NEVER SHY ABOUT TAKING CONTROVERSIAL STANDS, MANDEL IS ALL IN WHEN IT COMES TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO WASHINGTON TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH POLITICIANS.

I'M GOING TO WASHINGTON TO TAKE ON THE SYSTEM, WHETHER THAT MEANS TAKING ON REPUBLICAN LEADERS, DEMOCRAT LEADERS, I DON'T CARE.

I'LL TAKE THEM ALL ON IF IT MEANS STANDING UP FOR THE CONSTITUTION, STANDING UP FOR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY AND STANDING UP FOR THE AGENDA.

WHEN WE LOOK BACK ON THIS ELECTION, WE'LL SEE IN LARGE PART THAT IT WAS STOLEN FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> OF COURSE, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD AND PRESIDENT TRUMP LOST THE ELECTION FAIR AND SCARE.

MANDEL WILL NOT BE THE ONLY REPUBLICAN RUNNING.

THE FORMER GOP CHAIR IS EXPECTED TO RUN AND OTHER REPUBLICANS ARE CONSIDERING TO RUN AS WELL.

>> THAT JOSH MANDEL MESSAGE, IS THAT WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN THE OHIO PRIMARY?

OR IS IT TOO STRONG AND SHOULD IT COME BACK TO BITE HIM SHOULD HE SURVIVE THE PRIMARY?

>> THAT IS THE CHALLENGE.

REMEMBER, THE GREATEST TEST OF PUBLIC OPINION THAT WE CAN RELY ON THIS NOVEMBER, AND WE'RE ABOUT A 50/50 COUNTRY.

WITH RED AND BLUE.

AND OHIO, OF COURSE, IS ABOUT A PLUS 8 REPUBLICAN STATE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THE REPUBLICANS STILL WANT TO SEE CANDIDATES IN THE FIGHT FOR THE TRUMP AGENDA.

WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO FIGHT FOR EVERYTHING HE SAYS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE.

SO THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THIS, AND SO THE ELECTORATE, THE PRIMARY ELECTORATE, SOME OF THE FIGHTS DONALD TRUMP TOOK ON AS PRESIDENT WITHOUT SOME OF THE MISTAKES HE MADE THAT A LOT OF THE DEMOCRATS TAKE ADVANTAGE.

SO I THINK JOSH MANDEL MAY HAVE THE RIGHT MESSAGE BUT HE HAD THE SAME MESSAGE TO SELECT HIM LIKE OTHERS.

>> YOU'RE A COMMUNICATIONS PROFESSIONAL.

YOU GIVE ADVICE TO FOLKS.

HE'S MAKING THESE STATEMENTS AS AMERICANS ARE WATCHING THE INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL.

WHETHER YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP IS RESPONSIBLE OR NOT, THEY ARE CARRYING TRUMP SIGNS.

THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN.

HE'S CLAIMING IT WAS STOLEN.

WAS THAT INTENTIONAL?

WAS THAT A MISTAKE?

IT SEEMS LIKE A VERY ODD JUXTAPOSITION TO HAVE A SPLIT SCREEN, WATCHING JOSH MANDEL AND THEN PEOPLE STORMING THE CAPITOL.

>> I KNOW JOSH.

I DIDN'T TALK TO HIM ABOUT THOSE COMMENTS.

FOUR YEARS AGO, A MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS THOUGHT DONALD TRUMP WON THE ELECTION BECAUSE OF COLLUSION WITH THE RUSSIANS OR RIGGING.

AND NOW WE KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN NOT TO BE TRUE BY THE MUELLER REPORT.

SO FOUR YEARS AGO, DEMOCRATS HAD A FALSE IDEA ABOUT HOW THE ELECTION WAS WON AND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS HAD A FALSE IDEA ABOUT THE ELECTION BEING STOLEN.

WE ALL AGREE THERE ARE PROBLEMS AND IRREGULARITIES THAT OUGHT TO BE CLEANED UP.

BUT JOE BIDEN WON.

WITHOUT THE TRUMP LOSS, DEMOCRATS WERE ANGRY ABOUT THE LOSS FOUR YEARS AGO.

>> THE DIFFERENCE IS THEY DIDN'T STORM THE CAPITOL AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS A MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS WHO SAID IT WAS STOLEN.

JOSH MAPPEDEL, DONALD TRUMP WON THE STATE BY 8 POINTS.

HIS MESSAGE WORKED.

WHAT ABOUT 2022?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT JOSH MANDEL NEEDS TO FIRST DETERMINE WHETHER HE'S A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

I MEAN, HE VOTED FOR ME WHEN I WAS A STATE DIRECTOR.

GORE CAMPAIGN AS AN INTERN.

SO HE NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HISLEGIANCES ARE.

THIS RACE WILL BE A BATTLE FOR DEMOCRATS.

BUT IT WON'T BE ONE THAT WE CAN'T WIN.

THIS IS AN OPEN SEAT.

SENATOR PORTMAN HAS A LOT OF SUPPORT IN THE STATE AND IF HE LENGTH SUPPORT TO ONE OF THE GOP CANDIDATES, THAT WILL GIVE THEM A LEG UP.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT OURS AS WELL.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CONGRESSMAN, WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER, THE FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMISSION WHO WILL GO STATEWIDE.

THE OFFICE HOLDER IN THE STATE.

AND YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE THE MINORITY LEADER.

THESE ARE ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THEIR OWN RIGHT THAT HAVE DONE VERY WELL.

THAT HAVE A LOT OF STATEWIDE ELECTORAL POTENTIAL.

>> YOU DIDN'T MENTION AMY ACTON.

HOW BIG A CHALLENGE DOES SHE FACE WITH OTHER DEMOCRATS AROUND THE STATE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AMY ACTON IS A NEWCOMER TO POLITICS.

THE FORMER HEALTH DIRECTOR.

A RUNNER FOR U.S. SENATE AND BEING THE HEALTH DIRECTOR FOR THE STATE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

THIS WOULD BE A $50 MILLION RACE AND IF YOU'RE NOT COMMITTED TO RAISING THOSE DOLLARS, IF YOU DON'T RAISE THOSE DOLLARS EARLY ON, SHOW PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO RAISE THE MONEY AND PUT TOGETHER THE NECESSARY ORGANIZATION, THEN YOU WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WITH ALL THAT'S GOING ON, IT IS EASY TO FORGET THE STATE HOUSE CONTINUES TO DEAL WITH A $61 MILLION BRIBERY SCANDAL.

THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS.

THE SO-CALLED DARK MONEY GROUP HAS AGREED TO PLEAD GUILTY.

THE CHIEF FEDERAL PROSECUTOR IN THE CASE IS RESIGNING.

AND THE LEADER OF THE TEAM, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER, REMAINS IN OFFICE BUT NOW A GROUP OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS FROM HIS DISTRICT ARE ASKING HIM TO LEAVE THE LEGISLATURE AND NOW THERE'S NEW SPECULATION THAT THE COMPANY THAT GOT THE NUCLEAR BAILOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE MAY TURN IT DOWN.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, I'M NOT SURE WHERE TO BEGIN.

HE IS RESIGNING.

HE WAS APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP, NOT SURPRISING.

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE CASE?

>> I THINK YOU BROKE IT DOWN PRETTY WELL.

THE DIFFERENT ANGLES OF THE STORY STILL IN MOTION.

AS FAR AS STEPPING DOWN, IT IS CUSTOMARY WHEN A NEW PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION COMES IN, THE DOJ REPLACES THE U.S. ATTORNEY.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE ARE POLITICAL OBJECTIONS TO THOSE REPLACEMENTS.

EVEN THIS TIME AROUND, I THINK YOUR VIEWERS PROBABLY REMEMBER FOUR YEARS AGO, THERE WERE SOME PRETTY STRONG DEMOCRATS AND SOME PRETTY STRONG OBJECTIONS TO A FEW OF THE U.S.

ATTORNEYS GIVEN THE BOOT OR ASKED TO RESIGN.

THIS TIME AROUND WE SAW NECESSARILY IN OHIO, BUT I KNOW IN ILLINOIS, THERE WAS SOME PUSHBACK BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC CORRUPTION SCANDAL THAT'S ARE BEING WORKED THERE.

AND SO IT SOUNDS LIKE A VERY SMALL NUMBER BEING ASKED TO STAY ON.

AND I THINK SOME PEOPLE IN OHIO WERE HOPING THAT DAVE WOULD BE AMONG THOSE.

BUT HE IS A PRO AND HE HAS ASSURED EVERYBODY THAT THE INVESTIGATIONS IN HIS OFFICE, THE PUBLIC CORRUPTION ONES ARE KIND OF WHAT EVERYONE IS REALLY FAMILIAR WITH RIGHT NOW, IN ADDITION TO THE HOUSEHOLDER CASE.

THERE IS ALSO SEVERAL CINCINNATI CITY COUNCIL CASES STILL PENDING AND GOING THROUGH.

A LOT OF THESE, THAT'S I THINK WHAT HE WILL BE MOST WELL KNOWN FOR AFTER LEAVING OFFICE.

BUT THE INVESTIGATION BEGAN BEFORE HE ENTERED OFFICE AND HE IS CONFIDENT THAT THE REST OF THE STAFF IS A VERY EXPERIENCED STAFF AT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO THAT WILL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE FORWARD WITH THOSE AND FINISH THEM UP.

>> WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CAREER, GOING FROM ONE U.S. ATTORNEY TO ANOTHER WITH A CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATIONS WITH ACTIVE INVESTIGATIONS?

>> NOT ALWAYS.

SOME OF THE VIEWERS MAY KNOW, THERE WAS AN OP ED FOR JOE BIDEN TO KEEP HIM ON FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS.

WITH THE TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, THEY ALLOWED THE U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY TO REMAIN ON FOR TWO YEARS.

THEY DID NOT HAVE TO DO THAT.

SOCIETIES IT IS DONE IN CERTAIN CASES.

AND.

AT LEAST UNTIL THE HOUSE INVESTIGATION IS DONE.

IT WAS A MISTAKE FOR BIDEN TO HAVE DONE THAT AND ASSURED, WE'RE GOOD WITH HIM.

A HERO IN THIS CASE.

>> DERRICK CLAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS IN THIS INVESTIGATION?

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS?

DOES IT GO AWAY?

THE MONEYS ARE OFF THE HOOK?

>> NO.

DEFINITELY NOT GOING AWAY.

THERE ARE SEVERAL BILLS IN THE OHIO LEGISLATURE NOW THAT ARE LOOKING TO REPAIR AND MAKE IT WORK FOR THE TAXPAYERS.

SO THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT GOING AWAY.

YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK, THERE WERE 30 SOME ODD PEOPLE THAT WROTE LETTERS TO REMOVE LARRY HOUSEHOLDER FROM THE OHIO LEGISLATURE.

HE WAS NOT GIVEN ANY COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS.

SO I THINK THE GOP IS TAKING THE STEPS TO REMOVE HIM FROM OFFICE.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR OFF THE RECORD SHOTS.

YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> THERE MAY BE SOME POLITICAL TROUBLE HERE IN COLUMBUS.

BUT THE POLICE CHIEF WAS DEMOTED TO ANOTHER OFFICE.

THE PEOPLE THOUGHT HIS LEADERSHIP WAS NOT STRONG WITH SOME OF THE POLICE SHOOTINGS.

THEY MAY SEE MORE POLITICAL COMPETITION THAN HE HAS IN THE PAST AND PEOPLE MAY COME ASKING FOR HIM TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR SOME OF THE PROBLEMS COLUMBUS IS CURRENTLY FACING.

>> YOUR FINAL THOUGHT?

>> THE DATA WILL NOT BE RELEASED UNTIL SEMI.

THE REDISTRICTING IS UPON US.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO INCLUDING RELEASING FUNDS TO BOTH THE DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES.

THE GOVERNMENT CAN RECONVENE THE REDISTRICTING TASK FORCE AND THE LEGISLATURE CAN PASS THE BILL THAT'S REQUIRED BY LAW.

SO LOTS OF MOVING PARTS GOING ON WITH REDISTRICTING.

>> AND JACKIE BORCHARDT?

>> WELL, DERRICK DECLINED SO I'LL POINT OUT THAT THE OHIO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS ALLOWED SELF-SERVE BUFFETS TO OPEN.

AND THE FAMED JOURNALIST TWEETED OUT, HE'S GOING TO TAKE A HARD PASS ON THAT.

>> YEAH.

MAYBE THE BUFFET AND THE SALAD BAR WILL BE ONE LONG LOST CASUALTY OF THE PANDEMIC.

I DON'T KNOW.

I'M NOT A BIG FAN EITHER.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

W.OSU.ORG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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