From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in a public plea about immigration.

In a way, about Ice and the way Americans view their immigrant neighbors.

The letter comes from a long list of Rochester and Finger Lakes area faith leaders across denominations and faith traditions.

And I want to read a good portion of it now to capture what the faith leaders are saying about this rather unique American moment.

Quote, we, faith leaders in the greater Rochester area invite you into a conversation about how faith speaks to our current moment in the United States, especially concerning immigration and the tactics currently being used by federal agents against our citizens and immigrant neighbors as diverse faith leaders.

We've been working on deepening our relationships with each other and are united over our concern for our country, even in our diversity.

We have found several core faith based principles on which we are united.

We are coming together as diverse faith and spiritual leaders in the greater Rochester area, not despite, but because of our differences in faith and how we articulate our most dearly held convictions.

We believe it is of utmost importance to come together in community and solidarity, especially in a time when diversity is cast as a weakness or a problem to solve.

We believe the opposite is true.

Our difference is our great asset.

We believe all are created in the image of the divine.

And because of this, every human possesses and should be treated with great dignity.

How we treat our neighbor, no matter their ethnicity, immigration status, orientation, etc.

reflects how we treat the divine even in our different faith traditions.

We are all driven by and toward the love of neighbor, and in particular our neighbor who is in need.

Further, this love is not a passive one, but one that implies action.

Thus, we cannot sit idly by as our neighbors in need, in our city and around the country are being harmed.

Our faith convictions will not allow it.

End quote.

I was curious about what the leaders are hoping to achieve with this letter.

Whom it's for and where they hope it might go.

A group of the signatories are kind enough to join us for this hour on connections, and I'll go around the table and welcome them now.

Welcome back to Rabbi Peter Stein, senior rabbi at Temple Brith Kadesh.

Nice to see you again.

Thank you so much.

Welcome to the right.

The right Reverend Carl Wagner Scherer, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Rochester, has been a little while.

Welcome back.

Thank you for being with us.

Thank you for having me.

On the other side of the table, welcome to Reverend Joanne Gilbert, canon senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Rochester.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having us.

And welcome to Reverend Kathy Teel, minister for congregational care at Asbury First United Methodist Church.

Thank you for being here as well.

Thank you very much.

You know, Rabbi, you're not going to take credit for the letter if you're going to call it a group effort.

But it had to originate somewhere.

And I want to just ask you not to take all of the credit.

But I do want to ask you why now?

Why is this letter being written, signed and put out into the world at this particular moment?

So I think that for me, there are two things going on.

One is I've always placed a tremendous value and importance on these interfaith conversations at the clergy level.

And at the community level, and it's something that we've been working very hard on between different kinds of clergy, different kinds of congregations, different parts of the city and county.

And those conversations have been ongoing and have allowed us to build a trusting relationship so that we could address the hard and important issues.

And then the second is we are in a moment of crisis.

We are in a in a dangerous moment for our country.

And we have an obligation to respond.

We can't just simply sit and lament that there's a problem.

We have to take action.

And so that's why we wanted to issue this call in this invitation to come together with truly a diverse group so that we can strategize as to what we might do together.

Let me ask about one part of the letter and what you might mean by that.

When you say, we cannot sit idly by as our neighbors in need, in our city and around the country are being harmed, who is being harmed and by whom?

I think a lot of the harm is being done to people who are vulnerable, and they're vulnerable because of aspects of their identity.

A lot of them, because they are immigrants and refugees, some of it because of their race.

Some of it's, because of their gender or their sexual identity.

There are people who are vulnerable and we can't allow that to to continue.

So this is about ice, but not just about ice.

Is that a fair way to describe it?

I think that's a very good way to describe it.

That certainly is a significant piece of it.

And there have been incidents in Rochester with with abuse happening at the hands of ice, but it goes far beyond that.

Certainly there's no escaping the, events, the tragic events that happened in Minneapolis and Minnesota.

But it's not that alone.

Before I turn to your colleagues for why they decided to sign on and their thoughts on it, were there colleagues across faith traditions whom you reached out to, who you were surprised have not signed the letter?

So at this point, the letter keeps attracting more and more signers.

I suppose I don't have the latest probably, probably, probably not the very latest.

We are at just about 50 signers across faith traditions, Jewish, Catholic, Christian.

We have Muslim signers on the letter.

We have, Unitarian Universalist signers on the letter.

We have other spiritual leaders who don't affiliate with, traditional religious practice who have signed on as well.

And some of those signers were a little bit slower to sign, and there were others who have not signed.

And I don't think the goal for me was ever to get every single name on the letter, but to say, yes, we want to be part of this, encourage our folks to come and join the conversation on the 24th.

Let me turn to the Right Reverend Carl Wagner here, and I want to ask you why you decided that this was the right time for this.

And why you are why you are a signatory.

As I travel around my diocese and meet with, congregations and hear stories about some of the damage, being done to families and individuals, through the actions of Ice, the people who hear these personal stories and are moved by them, the first thing they say is, what can I do?

Not what do we think about this?

What?

How can we talk more about this?

And I just want to do something.

So I think it's really important that the letter ends with an invitation to bring not just clergy leaders, but regular people in the pews together to really talk, to extend relationships so that we can be people of action who is being harmed, who is who isn't being harmed?

Families, parents, children who are afraid don't know if their parents will be home when they get home from school.

Hard workers who, have been picked up on the way to work, families who don't know where their loved ones have been held.

I just learned about a friend of a friend held in, jail in Belmont.

Already by the time we got notice of it had been moved to Texas.

So, things are happening really fast.

They're happening very secretly, and it just ripping communities apart.

Do you think our community is is expecting faith leaders to not just speak, but to act?

I hope so.

I think that the witness in Minneapolis, when many clergy people, came together and many of them were arrested, I hope put us back in the consciousness of the people, that, we should speak out.

And I think, I also want to say, besides the people being harmed, I want to say also the people who are being asked to do inhumane and illegal things are also being harmed in this, and they are our community members as well.

And so we hope that speaking from a faith perspective will help us to care for everybody who's being affected by this.

And before I turn to your colleagues across the table, I'm I, you know, I'm curious to know if you feel that any of this kind of action could lead to even what might feel like a further politicization of congregations and faith traditions, that here's the Republican church, here's the left leaning church, here's the centrist church.

Here's the temple where the rabbi leans this way.

You know, here's here's the mosque.

Is that where we're going, or do you actually feel like this is should not be political or partizan?

I actually think that that is the role that faith leaders have, because we sit in the middle of that, everything we do is political, but and our but our congregations are filled with different partizan, different ideologies politically.

So if we can have any effect in the world, it is through, gathering our congregations together so that we don't remain in bubbles, like that.

So I think that is the goal is to say this is not a Partizan issue.

This is a human rights, a human dignity issue.

And we can talk at that level one on one and as a community, in order to get a better understanding and hopefully, hopefully the relationships that we've formed in our own congregations among diverse people will help us to form those relationships across faith differences and political differences.

Yeah, I do wonder what this particular and again, this letter is not just about Ice or immigration, but that's seems to be a big part of it.

And I was reading recently, a Lutheran writer named Lyman Stone who's been on this program.

He's a demographer.

He's a very smart guy politically.

He leans very conservative, socially.

And, you know, he's a very pro natal writer.

He recently wrote about.

He said my wife called her congressman for the first time in her entire life over this.

She called both our senators and our congressman's office.

This was not a result of me passing on radicalizing internet content.

He said, well, I was in Hong Kong.

She texted me out of the blue to let me know that she had done this.

This issue has broken containment and will wreck Republican electoral chances in 2026.

This is a conservative writer talking about his conservative wife, saying this is no longer just a right left issue.

There are many people whose sensibilities have been absolutely floored by what they've seen.

And I wonder if in your own congregation you might experience it that way.

What do you expect?

I hope that those conversations can be broken open because, as you talked about, this is a conversation between a wife and a husband.

And, and, and it may get out because he's a writer, but many of those conversations never see the light of day.

As well as when you're looking at what's happening in Minneapolis, you don't see all the good.

I just was there two weeks ago.

You don't see all the good that ordinary people are doing and how we can highlight that as faith communities, that there are actually more people trying to uplift human dignity than there are people that are causing this disaster and this, political divide and keeping it divisive.

So why are we fixated so much on what divides us?

I think as human beings, we like to be.

We like to be different.

We like to stand out.

And that that can be used for good or ill.

And I think right now, division or difference is being seen as, as a negative and as a, a power against other, to raise somebody else up.

Whereas as our experience with our colleagues is that the difference is we're not trying to change each other's minds or try to figure out how how similar all these religions are.

Rather, we're delighting in the differences that make each faith tradition strong.

And we need to do that with individuals as well.

Now, let me go across the table to Reverend Joanne Gilbert, canon Senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Rochester.

Reverend, why did you decide to sign this letter?

I think that there were two main reasons why I decided to sign this letter, and the first would be American Baptists, one of our four founding principles is, freedom of religion, freedom of conscience.

And so it feels to me like we're being told, a certain way to believe.

And I would argue the point that freedom has always been part of our democracy, freedom of faith.

No one telling us what we have to believe or how we have to worship, or how we respond to our neighbor.

And the second would be hope.

Hope in building relationships across this great divide.

Hope that we can connect.

I heard what Bishop Carr said, and and I totally agree with her.

But I would also add, I think that this moment people react in fear.

I think a lot of our distances, a lot of our separation and divide is about fear.

Fear of people that we don't know, fear about, people we don't understand, fear that we might be asked to do something that doesn't feel right.

And fear has been sort of pounded into us recently.

And so I think that I would hope that we could come together across these differences with hope.

Hope of building relationships, hope of getting to know our neighbors, hope of figuring out, you know, how our differences inform our lives, but also where we can appreciate those differences.

So who is this letter for?

For me, this letter is for the broader community to say, let's have a conversation.

Let's talk about this.

Is this really who we want to be?

Do we want to be a people that are at war?

Do we want to be a people that witness continuing and growing violence to each other, or do we want to be a people that are hopeful, that can respond in love, that can be kind?

Are you concerned that the answer to that might disturb you?

Or do you think you have a sense for what people really want?

My neighbors in my particular neighborhood where I live would have a very different politic than I do, and I still can react in love to them and they react in love to me.

I can share tomatoes out of my garden and and they love that.

They can, you know, talk to me about their health or what's going on with their family.

There are bridges to be made even with people who disagree.

And these are people of faith whose faith might not be my faith.

And we can still come together as loving human beings and people of faith.

Informed by that.

Do you know at least believe that this kind of public consciousness about this issue, do you think it has broken through?

Do you think that this letter you clearly you think it's will help the community maybe process more and address more of it, but do you think the consciousness is there?

Everyone has so much going on in their lives.

That's why many people say they don't have time to go to church temple that we've talked about.

It's just everyone's very busy.

Yeah, but is this something that is broken through?

Recently I personally tried to model this and met with some religious leaders who would be, as you quoted early, more on a conservative side.

And we sat and broke bread together and talked about our shared faith and how that's influencing how we walk forward in this moment.

And we found common ground.

And so, yes, I think common ground can be found based on our faith.

Well, let me turn to Reverend Kathy Teal, minister for congregational care at Asbury First United Methodist Church.

Why did you decide to sign the letter?

Well, it was the right thing to do.

And it was it is a statement to the community that we are united as different leaders, leaders of different faith traditions and different communities.

And it is important to me that people know that there is a common bond of love among us all that cannot be broken.

And this is a way to to open a conversation about that.

But are you worried that we're not as united as you would like to see in the American public on this?

I am worried that we don't show it enough, and I am worried about the fear that people have around the situation with immigration that has come up recently.

I'm concerned about their emotional health, their spiritual health and how it's affecting their bodies and their mental states.

And I would like to do something about it.

And I would like to, as I said, unite in love more and use that.

It is hopefully comforting for people to know that there are so many leaders in this community who are talking to each other.

Not across boundaries, but but through them and in spite of them and leaving the boundaries beside.

And there was a just a beautiful part of that letter that says, you know, diversity is is not to be fixed.

Differences are not to be fixed.

I believe they are.

They are to be lifted up and shared and talked about.

Reverend, I wonder in a different generation if a letter like this, might land differently.

But we are so fragmented in how we get information and where we choose to, and how we inform ourselves what the, you know, the sources that we choose and and why we make those kind of choices to kind of confirm our beliefs or kind of bolster our feelings.

Are you worried that that even something like this might end up in an echo chamber, as opposed to landing thoughtfully with someone who might be predisposed not to immediately agree with it?

Oh for sure, for sure.

But I think if it reaches 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 people, or hopefully 100 people who decide to join us next week, in the evening of February 24th, then that will have a more potential to have a ripple effect.

And I think that that really works.

All right, Rabbi, what's going on on February 24th?

So we are gathering, at 730 in the evening on February 24th at First Universalist Church in downtown Rochester.

And genuinely, the invitation is to come and join in conversation.

So there will be a few opening remarks, a few people presenting, their experiences, their opinions, a couple of people who have been to Minneapolis in the last few weeks, but most of the time is really going to be dedicated to small group conversation, sitting around tables together.

And even as we were coming into the studio today, we were talking about one essential piece is we're really going to try and structure it so that people are sitting with people that they don't know and people that they don't necessarily talk to on a regular basis.

It's very easy to come into a group setting and, sit with your friends, right?

Your carpool over, you sit together.

Who's invited?

Everyone who would like to join in a thoughtful conversation is invited.

It is it is open to the broader community.

Your your comment earlier about, you know, previous generations of clergy.

This letter is not in any way sort of a dictator, a mandate from on high.

We are not saying, come see, you can hear us tell you what to do.

It is an open invitation for open conversation.

We very genuinely want people of different identities, different perspectives, different opinions to come and share with one another.

Reverend, you get your hand up.

Really jump in there.

Yeah.

About the echo chamber that you mentioned.

We had a recent meeting of clergy in which, there were guests from a organization called spirit of the Galilee in Galilee, in Israel.

And we heard, from a, rabbi and a, a Greek Orthodox priest.

But their organization includes six different religious traditions.

And they talked about how often they take pictures together when they, Muslim leader shows up at the tree, Christmas tree lighting and, and, and other events.

And those images, I think can get across where people might not read a letter.

But the more that we do things together and the more that we're seen doing things together, that message gets out a little further than a printed word.

Yeah.

I mean, listeners of this program have heard me invoke this before, but your point about just the image of seeing faith leaders together in front of a Christmas tree or something, people are hungry to feel like difference doesn't always mean strife.

And it's why when you know, the Republican and Democrat running for governor of Utah a few years ago did ads together and they were like, vote for me.

You know, vote for me.

But also, these are good guys, and we'll be finding the way and people will.

I mean, it became this national story where people were like, whoa.

And they were hungry.

It became one of the great viral political stories.

And here's what I wondered, Reverend.

I thought, if this is so easy to go viral like that, I actually being kind by showing respect.

If people are that hungry for it, why aren't we choosing more of that?

Why aren't we?

If people are desperate to see faith leaders stand together and say, okay, we have a Baptist and we've got the Methodists and we have the Episcopal, it's we've got Jews and Muslims, and we can do this, but why don't we choose it more often?

Is it?

I mean, I don't want to ask you who you blame for that, but it's a it's a hard moment in society because I think we do want this.

I think we want some actual unity, not just sort of this ephemeral stuff.

Well, you know that the videos of, people being beaten up go more viral than the people singing together.

Right?

So it's it's about money, right?

It's what about clicks?

It's about what?

What makes money.

So to break through that, and again, this is why our event next week is about being together around a table because it's in-person.

It is it is actual human connection.

And that's, that does cut across the, the noise whereby the people need to, like, register in advance for this, or can they just be there?

They can just come 730 on the 24th, a week from today at the First Universalist Church in downtown Rochester?

Okay.

And I do want to ask you, to the extent that you might understand, you know, for example, you heard Reverend Gilbert Cannon say that you may have neighbors who disagree with your politics.

You may have colleagues in faith who disagree with your politics.

To the extent that you know some of the politics of your colleagues.

Do you have any signatories who surprised you?

Who lean more conservative, or is that been a hard, hard go?

So there's no doubt that some of the signers have different beliefs on some other issues.

But that's not what this is about.

This is about, a moment of crisis, a tragedy.

People losing their lives, families being splintered and my hope is that we will own this, this opportunity to be role models.

To set an example from your previous question to Bishop Carr, I can't say why, but what I know is that people sometimes will shy away from these kinds of things.

This is a moment to say we can do better.

We can come together and really dream and imagine what we want our community to be like.

You know, Reverend Teal, it was, a few years ago now on this program that Asbury First's leader, who has since headed off to Texas, was here and then a leader of a methodist congregation in a different suburban community, was here talking about the worldwide Methodist split that literally split the church over the issue of LGBTQ rights.

And I had the opportunity to attend the first gay wedding at Asbury first.

It's really a beautiful affair.

And I also saw how church Worldwide couldn't figure it out.

And I, I wonder if now you feel like we we can sign this together.

We don't have to agree on everything.

Like Rabbi Stein just said, we need more together.

Even if we've been hurting, even if we've been divided, even if our church has split, we can all sign this and stand together and and still share values.

Or are some wounds too deep?

I don't think the wounds are too deep for for sharing together.

What's right to do for humankind?

I think that we get past them, we talk about them, and we heal what we can heal.

We make amends for what we can make amends for and then we move on.

And work together.

And it is just in something you said.

I felt a personal challenge to reach out myself to those who I'm not on the same page with, and I will listen to anybody and I will have a conversation with anybody.

But I don't always seek it out.

And I think that to be an example of seeking out that difficult conversation is important for faith leaders as well.

And and just what what Rabbi Stein just talked about, everybody is welcome to this conversation, to this table, and to bring an open mind to it is really important.

And to kind of leave our leave our triggers at the door.

If somebody says something that is offensive to me, it's it's not necessarily offensive to them.

And I need to listen to that.

And, learn more about them and why they are saying it and what's behind it.

There is often something behind anger and fear that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Your decision to seek out understanding and views that are different is, I think, increasingly rare because, I mean, it used to be that that was probably required to to maintain relationships with the other neighbors, parishioners, a congregation.

Now we can divide ourselves any number of ways we can do it online.

We can do it in the communication that we have with family.

We can do it in perhaps some congregations.

We choose.

That's what scares me so much, is a lot of I think Americans feel like we don't have to engage with what feels uncomfortable or threatening or pushing our beliefs.

We can find community that already agrees with us, you know, you know, with a yes, yes.

And that's the easy road.

That's the easy road.

It's not the hard road.

The harder road is to say, the easy road is to say I offended you.

Oh.

Well, then that's it.

We're done.

The harder road is to say, how did I offend you?

And you tell me.

And I think, oh, no.

Well, I am so sorry.

Well, well, let me let's let's work through that.

And it deepens the relationship.

Anybody who's ever had, a good friend or partner, spouse that you've had a fight with, talking it through and getting to the other side strengthens the relationship.

And to me, that's my goal for humankind, for everybody in my in my congregation and for for the world and the world is is hurting the world is in pain and suffering.

And it is my belief that we are all connected.

And if one of us is suffering, we are suffering.

Reverend Gilbert Cannon, do you practice the idea of making sure that as strong as your your feelings on individual issues may be that doors open to your congregation to disagree?

Is the neighbor who disagrees and and do you practice how to how to sort of engage and to hear it?

I think more and more my congregation does that.

I would say American Baptist with freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

We about we talk about solid freedom.

I have, a broad spectrum of members.

So I think what we're teaching each other is that in spite of that, and even on a deeper level, not in spite of, looking to understand, looking to listen is a big word I use all the time listening to each other.

It opens yourself to some vulnerability.

But, it's the human experience, right?

To to want to feel listened to and to listen.

You said earlier how young people are leaving the church.

And I think that for me, when I talk to young people that have been hurt by the church or have hurt church trauma and don't want to come to church anymore, they're still they will tell me that they're spiritual.

And I think this letter speaks to spirituality.

It speaks to, being made in the image of the divine.

It speaks to love your neighbor because love your neighbor is pretty much in every religion.

So even if you're a spiritual person, you can connect with the idea and the belief that loving your neighbor is important.

Or walking a mile in your neighbor's moccasins.

Right?

In Minneapolis, I think the church is doing that across the board, across belief.

They're walking with the immigrant in a way that maybe not has ever happened before, at least in my lifetime.

There's hope in that.

There's hope in the love that's happening that we're not seeing between the, you know, under the violence, the pictures that we see, these things are happening, human connection, human love to each other, even across different.

Let me invite you to tell me where you think I'm wrong on my analysis here, Reverend.

I spent a lot of time in my college years, kind of in this weird little faith journey.

My my own and I read a lot and went to a lot of places, and I ended up very turned off by what felt like a very all a approach that I saw in a lot of places to faith.

This idea of love your neighbor became a cliche.

It's like, well, that means like, you know, occasionally Baker neighbors cookies for Christmas.

Not like, do you know how hard it is to love your neighbor sometimes.

Do you know how much work that requires?

Do you know how much sacrifice that requires?

The heart stuff is like, well, when it's convenient, you know, prosperity gospel, you know, say your prayers.

God will take care of you.

Kingdom of heaven is yours.

It didn't feel authentically like an effort, like ongoing work.

It felt like something that was there to create a convenience for your life, or to make it sort of a balm to be used for you.

And that turned me off.

And so when you talk about loving your neighbor, and then all of a sudden you bring up Minneapolis, I mean, it looks it doesn't look like a cliche.

All of a sudden it looks like work, like important work.

That's exactly what it is.

And it's not trite, right?

I think that we have that idea that it I'll just love everyone is trite.

The boots on the ground of loving each other is not trite.

It's not superficial.

It's sacrificial.

So have we always gotten it right?

No.

And maybe this is the moment where we're modeling a desire to get it right, to show that we can do it, that we can step up to the plate and come together and love our neighbor.

The letter that we've been referencing, which we'll share in our show notes, once the show is posted in its various platforms, if listeners want to check it out, the letter says this love is not a passive one, but one that implies action.

So that's why we're here.

We're talking to Reverend John Gilbert Cannon from First Baptist Church of Rochester, Rabbi Peter Stein from Temple Brith Kadesh, Reverend Kathy Teel from Asbury First United Methodist Church, Right Reverend Carol Wagner Scherer from the Episcopal Diocese of Rochester.

When we come back here, Emily.

And right now, grab your phone call.

I've got a few emails to read.

We're talking about this public letter and this event coming up one week from tonight at First Universalist Church in Rochester, where they are seeking to broaden the conversation about the themes in the letter.

And we're going to come right back on connections.

I'm having Dawson Wednesday on the next connections.

Assembly member Jen Lunsford joins us talking about what she sees happening in Albany, what she wants done this year, and how she feels about the governor's budget.

And she'll take your questions as well.

In our second hour, my colleague Rachel Stephen joins us with about part two in her series looking at local black leaders who don't necessarily get the attention in Black History Month, where Kel wants to change that.

Talk to you Tuesday.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and this is Emily in Brighton who's been waiting to jump in.

Hi, Emily.

Go ahead.

Yes.

I just wanted to remind everybody that we have a long history of the different religions research, working together and talking about the thanksgiving service, the Unitarian Church and one of the, Jewish Temple star over 100 years ago, that has expanded to bring in many other faiths, groups.

And the there are many religions, both established and not established, but people who band together with their feelings come together here in Rochester that I'm very proud of.

And to just that we can all we all need to keep standing together and remember what our differences.

Just one last one.

Lastly, Unitarian, it's Unitarian Universalist, and I'm very proud to be having this signing at the Universalist Church.

Yeah.

Emily, thank you very much.

Anything to add?

Their panelist?

Rabbi.

So I think it's it's an important reminder that there is a long history of interfaith activity in Rochester.

Certainly a lot to be proud of.

I think the spirit of our conversations as clergy across faith lines has been that we don't want to rest on that history.

We don't want to simply say, we have this long standing Thanksgiving service.

We have other long standing relationships.

What matters is what we're doing right now.

So we have a foundation and we need to build on that foundation.

Well, speaking of that, you've got how many signatories on this letter now?

We have just about 50 signers right now.

What do you what do you most want to add to that?

And there while there is, I think, important diversity among the signers across Judaism, Christianity, Catholicism, Universalist, Islam and more, there are, virtually no signers, who are people of color.

And that is those are relationships that we each individually and together working to build up, is to reach across lines into the black community and hopefully draw more and more of them into this conversation.

I can't ask for you to speak for them, and I know you wouldn't try to do that, but I presume you've reached out so far.

Do you think those relationships can be built?

Yes, I am confident that those relationships will continue to grow.

Continue to build.

Okay, Reverend, you want to add to that?

Sure.

I think that just goes.

It's a deeper, even a deeper divide of racial divide in Rochester, which we also have a history of, of overcoming.

But it's a constant thing.

And so there are always, when we were talking about love being action, we can't just assume that because we've invited someone, it has to be personal invitation.

And that's what we're working on.

We've had other issues.

October 7th, made a very difficult, interfaith environment for us.

So we want we talk about those things and we bring them to the fore, because that is the way to go forward.

So it's a constant, not resting on our laurels and our history, but saying we have to continue to build and to go forward.

Patrick writes in to say regarding the letter, props for doing the hard work and for trying, but you will never penetrate the minds of.

And then he lists a number of political leaders.

He says, I think the everyday citizen of the United States is too busy to truly take the time out of their day to worry about someone who looks or talks differently than they do, and I, Patrick writes some things in this letter, in his email that are, a little cynical.

I mean, I don't think he's all that optimistic that this is going to move people.

Let me go back around the table.

And, you know, Reverend Kilpatrick is saying he salutes you.

He doesn't think the average American has time to worry about this.

And he doesn't think political leaders can be moved.

So well.

We can't know unless we try.

And if if we start trying, then there is more of a chance that we will be, that we will gain more relationships and have more hard conversations.

And those hard conversations can also end in going out for a burger together.

That's not just the hard conversation is over.

Check.

Move on to the next one.

It's a building of a deeper relationship, and I, I, I agree probably with a lot of what is in the email, which I am not looking at, Patrick, but I, I applaud you for writing in and and telling what you are feeling in this moment.

And I think that cynicism is a part of our world.

And yet I also know that optimism is as well.

And I have been a an eternal optimism for my entire optimist for my entire life.

And it has to do with my relationship with God.

And that is my own relationship, but not one I have ever foisted on anybody else.

But it is something that helps me to speak about the optimism.

And, I would love to have a conversation with you and, talk about that cynicism.

And I am I am just interested and curious.

Well, Reverend Gilbert Cannon, let me ask you about some of your thoughts on Patrick's email.

I mean, I'm thinking about conversations I've had the last month with.

So we're bringing on members of the state legislature.

They're talking about the governor's budget.

They're talking about state priorities.

And our audience has been asking about Ice activity in our communities.

And are they satisfied in their districts with what they've seen?

And would they want to pass state legislation that seeks to, if possible, prevent Ice from masking and things like that?

And, you know, there are stereotypes that we are trying to get past on this program.

It is harder for us to get Republicans in this studio than it is to get Democrats.

And maybe that's my failing, and I'm working on that.

And we want everyone to feel welcome.

They're going to be challenged.

Everyone should be challenged.

But but welcome to share views.

But I'm thinking of a conversation Reverend I so I think about take the two ice shootings and in Minneapolis.

I can't look at those videos and and relate to the notion that the someone might think that those were justified.

I don't understand it.

We have so many angles.

This is not a description on a piece of paper.

I can understand the idea of how people feel about the protesters or the actions of the individuals before the shooting, but the notion of armed agents of the state shooting and killing, I don't understand it at all.

And yet the Republicans have come on.

They trust us.

We have these great conversations, and they are, to my mind, upstanding.

Representatives were very responsive and I enjoyed the conversations with them.

But they tell me they just they're not representing Minneapolis and they haven't seen enough.

And I can't relate to it.

And I feel like, where is the is there any universal truth anymore?

Is there something that we can grab on to together and say that we may all have different platforms, that we get news from, information from, but we can all see this and we can grab a hands together and say, doesn't matter where you vote, the matter, your ideology.

We know where our lines are, is as a country, and we're not quite there yet.

I mean, maybe we're this hasn't quite gotten there yet and I should I be surprised?

I mean, are you dispirited at all in the work that you do in this regard?

It it brings up a situation.

I went with my daughter in law out to dinner recently, and there was three people at, at a table that were speaking very loudly, and they were talking about Rochester, and it was a restaurant in the burbs.

And one of them said, you know, it's a really good place to live.

This is this is a good place to live.

But the actual city, Rochester, they should just bomb it and kill them off.

And it just made my heart completely sink.

And I had to stop for a minute and think this would be the same person who could watch that video of the killing in Minneapolis and say, yeah, they deserved it.

I happen to believe that some minority, I think it definitely is.

And I would like to hope.

And like I said at the beginning, one of my reasons for signing this letter is to model hope.

Okay, hope that we can live together and not promote violence to each other.

Hope that that's our bottom line or that we don't believe, no matter what those two people did in Minneapolis, that they deserve to be killed.

Can we agree on that?

And maybe not yet.

But if we could work to agreeing, that that's hopeful.

Yeah.

I mean, look, I respect that.

I mean, I think I think that's well said.

I have a job to try to understand everyone's viewpoint.

I don't have a job to just push mine out there.

I just thought, looking at this, this would be like, okay.

We, we we can get together on this one.

And, you know, it is a minority.

I mean, the polling is very clear.

Surveys are very clear.

But it's not you know, it's not 95 five.

And can I just say one other thing to Patrick, who emailed, we're all busy.

I get that.

All of us, everybody around this table has five other things they could be doing right now.

You included.

And probably every listener.

They've got their grocery list, they've got their errands, they've got their kids, they've got their job, they've got their house or whatever it is that they're investing their life in.

And so did the people of Minneapolis that are stepping up to the plate.

And we're inviting people into a conversation about what the people of Minneapolis are doing.

Like, can we come together and be boots on the ground for each other?

You're very generous in what you said.

I mean, I actually do have to be here.

This is the only thing I could be doing right job.

But you all have a lot of things you could be doing.

And what the reverend is talking about is one week from the night, 7:30 p.m.

on the 24th of February at First Universalist Church in Rochester.

The public is invited to that event where, a lot of these themes will be discussed.

There will be public conversation.

And I know they would love to see you there.

Let me grab one more phone call.

This is Isaac and I think in Guadalajara calling.

Hi, Isaac.

Go ahead.

Hit the moment to make sure you kind of think about it for a second.

Hi, sir.

And so we're just there, actually.

And, so I think you guys, I'm traveling through Mexico and Latin.

Well, I'm definitely interested in going to, next week's, conversation.

I hope I can, I can do it a conference.

But, I also wanted to just give you guys an inside perspective on Mexico.

So, I think trying to engage the Mexicans here.

And, kind of give you guys an eyeball perspective of the type of people that they're talking about.

Person over here, like, and amongst them.

And so, I guess when you say that a lot of them don't like Americans, a lot of them are very suspicious of Americans.

Hey, I'm just going to jump in, Isaac.

Not because I don't care about your opinion here.

I want to be careful with the idea that Mexicans just don't like Americans or, you know, I would I would be similarly hesitant to have a long conversation with someone who says, hey, I talked to a few people in my neighborhood, and we just do not like Canadians.

We do not like Mexicans.

I, you know, I, I want to listen.

Why don't you send me a separate note, Isaac?

Because if I'm cutting you off unfairly, I apologize.

Send me an email.

And I'd also talk share more with what you want to share there.

And we can maybe follow up separately.

I just want to be careful about that, because I'm sure there are plenty of people who are not happy with the United States of America.

That's certainly plausible, but I want to also, you know, let's I don't want to over generalize that.

So, and that could be my fault.

So I apologize if I'm cutting you off unfairly.

Isaac.

So send me an email.

We can follow up there for sure.

We're down to our last couple of minutes anyway here.

And I got to say, you know, I'm starting to see a lot of feedback at the end of the hour with people asking, what's next?

People like Rick saying, I listen to the conversation with the local religious leaders.

I wonder what they envisioning happening after the program schedule for next week.

It seems to me we need to think about how we build ongoing relationships, not just how we might come together occasionally.

That's the theme that's come up from several folks here.

Rabbi, you want to take that point from Rick?

Yes, absolutely.

I think this is, opening of the door to a conversation.

This is a first step towards creating these kinds of ongoing opportunities.

None of us envisioned this as one evening that we spend together, figure out all the answers, and then go back into our our separate communities.

The other element that I think is important is this invitation is a little bit different.

It's an invitation coming from a cross-section of faith leaders to a values based conversation.

It's very different than elected officials holding a town hall or policy experts from, think tank inviting people into conversation.

We want to have a values based conversation about what our community could be and should be, and that's a long conversation.

That's an ongoing conversation, for sure.

And I will say, I'm seeing I have several emails already from listeners who are asking, you know, is is my faith leader on your list?

So I don't have the the updated list as of this morning.

You said there's 50 or so signatories.

Yes.

And I'll make sure you have the newest list.

But if you're wondering, we'll publish the list today.

And, you know, I suppose it's worth asking your faith leaders.

Yeah.

I mean, around the table, you're all looking.

Really?

Sure.

Ask your ask your faith leaders.

Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

You would you would welcome that conversation, Reverend.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

As well as when you sign on to a letter that people disagree with, I hear from folks.

And it's actually a good opening to a conversation.

I, I have no doubt that you occasionally hear from people who disagree with I think all of you probably do.

That's part of the job.

And I want to thank you for for coming in and sharing your thoughts with us.

It is, as you say in the letter, not an easy time in this country.

So thank you for for coming in and sharing this hour with us.

And again, the event next Tuesday, one week from tonight.

It is Tuesday the 24th at First Universalist Church, 7:30 p.m.

open to the community.

They would love to see you there.

Rabbi Peter Stein, the Right Reverend Carl Wagner, Sheriff Reverend Joanne Gilbert, canon Reverend Kathy Teal, thank you all for being here.

And they're representing a lot of people on this letter.

That's the room that we had, on this program today.

Thank you all for being here this hour.

Thank you so much.

Thank you from all of us at connections.

Thanks for taking the time to be with us on these various platforms.

And we're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

And.

And.

Be.

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