THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, IS THIS THE END OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNS A BILL TO ALLOW STATE TO DEFUND IT?

THEN, SHOULD HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES COVER GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: ARE AMERICANS EXPERIENCING A "FIRST AMENDMENT CRISIS"?

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, FAMILY PLANNING SHOWDOWN PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNED A BILL ALLOWING STATES TO WITHHOLD FAMILY PLANNING FUNDS FROM ORGANIZATIONS THAT PROVIDE ABORTIONS, SUCH AS PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

THE MONEY NEVER FUNDED ABORTIONS.

THE BILL, SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT IN PRIVATE, REVERSES A RULE PUT IN PLACE BY BARACK OBAMA WHICH SAID THE MONEY HAD TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO ORGANIZATIONS THAT PROVIDE FAMILY PLANNING SERVICES WHETHER OR NOT THEY PERFORMED ABORTIONS.

DEMOCRATS SAY THE BILL WILL RESULT IN POOR WOMEN NOT RECEIVING CONTRACEPTION, FERTILITY AND PREGNANCY CARE OR CERVICAL CANCER SCREENINGS ALL SUBSIDIZED BY TITLE X.

BUT REPUBLICANS COUNTER THAT THIS RULE WILL ALLOW STATE GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE THE CHOICES THAT BEST SUIT THEIR STATE.

SO ANNE HOW WILL LOW INCOME WOMEN BE IMPACTED?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE MAY BE SHORT-TERM CONFUSION BUT THE GAPS WILL BE FILLED AND PLANNED PARENTHOOD WILL BE FINE THEY WILL SURVIVE.

>> IT SENDS A CLEAR MESSAGE WE DON'T CARE ABOUT POOR WOMEN'S HEALTH AND IT WILL HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON COMMUNITIES.

>> IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT REPUBLICANS ARE MOVING TO DEFUND PLANNED PARENT HOOD.

>> THIS IS POLITICAL PANDERING AND POOR WOMEN ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE AND THEY WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

>> TELL ME HOW THE SERVICES WILL BE MADE UP?

>> WELL, I THINK FIRST OF ALL, PLANNED PARENTHOOD WILL HAVE PEOPLE THAT WILL STEP FORWARD AND FILL IN THE FUNDING GAP.

SIX OF THE EIGHT WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS AND THEY SUPPORT PLANNED PARENTHOOD THEY CAN DRAW ON THOSE SIX TO BEGIN WITH.

>> YOU MEAN BILL GATES SHOULD STEP IN AND -- >> NOT JUST BILL GATES.

>> HOW REALISTIC IS THAT?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY REALISTIC ALL OF THEM SUPPORT THE PROGRAMS.

AND BEYOND THAT THE MARKET WILL FILL IN.

THERE ARE OTHER CLINICS OUT THERE THAT DO NOT PROVIDE ABORTION SERVICES THAT WILL GET THE MONEY.

I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY, WE ARE HOPING TO EDUCATE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE I AGREE WITH SUSAN COLLINS WHEN SHE SAYS IF YOU WANT FEWER ABORTIONS YOU FUND FAMILY PLANNING.

IF THE GOAL IS TO REDUCE ABORTION IN THIS COUNTRY YOU HAVE TO FUND THE CURRENT FAMILY PLANNING AND FIND BETTER MEASURES BECAUSE 60% OF ALL ABORTION IS DUE TO THE FAILURE OF CONTRACEPTION.

NOT ONLY WE HAVE TO FUND WHAT WE HAVE BUT WE HAVE TO IMPROVE IT.

>> DO YOU THINK POOR LOW INCOME WOMEN WILL FIND A WAY AROUND ARE WE GOING BACK TO ILLEGAL ABORTIONS?

OR LET ME ASK YOU THIS: I KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE BIRTH CONTROL BUT WILL THEY GET ACCESS TO ILLEGALLY POSSIBLY THINGS LIKE RU486?

>> UNCHARTERED TERRITORY ABSOLUTELY.

YOU GOT THE INFRASTRUCTURE INCLUDES PLANNED PARENTHOOD CLINICS THAT ARE NOT FUNDED WITH FEDERAL MONEY TO PROVIDE ABORTION, DISMANTLING THAT INFRASTRUCTURE WE KNOW OTHER STATES HAVE DISMANTLED THE INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE TEXAS IN 2011 THEY DEFUNDED TWO-THIRDS OF THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES AND NOW THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST RATES OF MORTALITY OF POOR WOMEN DURING BIRTH.

SO THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT DOING THIS IS HARMFUL FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

AND CONGRATULATIONS I HOPE YOUR PLAN WORKS.

WE ARE BEING IN THE PROGRAM BOTH OF US FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND COVERED THE ISSUE WHEN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WAS IN POWER AND THEY DID THE SAME THING AND WE SAW THE PREGNANCY RATES GOING UP AND TEENAGE PREGNANCY RATES GOING UP AND ABORTION GOING UP AND THE OBAMA PEOPLE COME AND PUT THE SERVICES IN PLACE AND FUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD ABORTION AND TEENAGE PREGNANCY GOING DOWN WE ARE BACK TO THE SAME PLACE WE HAVE BEEN AND THE EVIDENCE SHOWS WHEN THE POLICIES ARE PUT IN PLACE IT HURTS POOR WOMEN AND ABORTION AND I HOPE NOT ILLEGAL ONES BUT THE SCENARIO IS THERE FOR A PERFECT STORM.

>> I'M CURIOUS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP FLIP-FLOPPED ON ISIS ON SYRIA ON RUSSIA AND ON NATO.

WHY HAS HASN'T HE FLIP-FLOPPED ON WOMEN'S ISSUES.

>> I THINK THAT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWER BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT CONGRESS IS WORKING MORE TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP IN THE PROCESS WHICH WOULD BE IF THE AMERICAN HEALTHCARE ACT WERE TO PASS WE WOULD SEE REDUCTIONS ON THE MEDICAID SIDE AND THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE AND THE PRESIDENT TO ENGAGE ON THE POLICY BUT WE ARE PROVIDING THE STATES WITH THE LATITUDE NOT EVERY STATE WILL MAKE THE CHOICE TO ADJUST THE TITLE 10 FUND.

>> ALL THE RED STATES WILL.

>> AND THERE IS A HUGE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND LOCAL CLINICS ARE FILLING A MAJOR GAP THIS IS A PATCHWORK SYSTEM FOR THE HEALTHCARE.

AND THIS IS ALL THEY HAVE.

YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD FUND MATERNITY CARE WE CANNOT BELIEVE CAME UP.

THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO GET WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE LIVES OF WOMEN AND PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST.

WE HAVE A HEALTHCARE CRISIS IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT.

WE ARE ON THE WAY TO FIGURING OUT AND THIS IS TAKING A STEP WAY IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE ANY REACTION, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WOMEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> IT IS AND THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION HERE AND I'M GLAD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LOW INCOME WOMEN SHE IS ARE THE FOLKS WHO HAVE -- THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO HAVE THE LEAST VOICE IN THIS CONVERSATION AND HOPEFULLY MORE SUSAN COLLINS WHO WILL STEP UP AND SAY WE CANNOT HAVE THIS.

>> AND THE MAJORITY OF THE WOMEN VOTED FOR TRUMP THEY ARE IN THE STATES THE RURAL COMMUNITIES THEY VOTED FOR TRUMP THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW IT'S [INAUDIBLE] NOW THAT THEY VOTED FOR SOMETHING ONE THING AND THEY ARE GETTING SOMETHING ELSE.

>> I WOULD SAY THE WHITE WOMEN VOTED FOR TRUMP.

THE WOMEN OF COLOR DID NOT.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

BUT THEY ARE THE MAJORITY.

YOU ASKED ABOUT A PIVOT AND THE FACT IS THAT COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS THERE ARE 20 COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS FOR EVERYONE PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

THERE IS A RESOURCE FOR THESE WOMEN BUT WHAT YOU WILL SEE BY SEPTEMBER -- >> WILL THEY FUND?

>> SEPTEMBER UNTIL WE GET TO SEPTEMBER, WHEN FUNDING BECOMES REAUTHORIZED FOR HEALTH CLINICS THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PRESIDENT TO PROVIDE RESOURCES FOR THE CLINICS.

>> AND I DISAGREE THAT HE FLIP-FLOPPED.

THERE'S BEEN AN EVOLUTION ON SOME OF THE ISSUES.

>> I WAS READING THAT VERY HEADLINE FROM A CABLE NEWSNET WORK.

>> IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S RIGHT.

I WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS A REASON THAT THIS BILL SIGNING WAS IN PRIVATE NOT IN PUBLIC.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HE REALLY FEELS COMFORTABLE WITH.

AND OTHERS -- >> IS HE BEING PUSHED BY PENCE?

>> WELL, PART OF THAT AND I THINK HE IS FULFILLING A PROMISE, TOO AND WE WILL FIND A WAY OUT OF THIS BECAUSE AGAIN ULTIMATELY IF THEIR GOAL IS TO REDUCE ABORTION -- >> WHAT IS THE WAY OUT?

>> EDUCATION FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CUT FAMILY PLANNING ACCESS YOU INCREASE ABORTION.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THAT SIGNING -- >> PENCE DOESN'T CARE.

>> YES, THEY DO.

YES, THEY DO.

>> THEY ARE NOT -- >> EVANGELICAL -- >> THEY WANT ABORTION REDUCED.

AND I GOT TO TELL YOU THE CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS WITH THESE PEOPLE THERE'S IGNORANCE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CORRELATION BETWEEN EFFECTIVE FAMILY PLANNING AND WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS OK FAMILY PLANNING WE NEED TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE IF WE WANT TO IMPACT THE ABORTION RATE.

>> I'VE BEEN OUT THERE AND INTERVIEWED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FEMALE AND MALE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS, I HAVE TALKED TO THEM OUT AND THEY JUST THINK THEY WANT WOMEN BAREFOOT AND PREGNANT.

AND WHEN THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO OVERTURN ROE V. WADE BEFORE THEY GOT TO 20 YEARS AGO BEFORE THEY GOT TO BIRTH CONTROL THEY WOULD SAY OH, WE DON'T WANT TO TOUCH BIRTH CONTROL AND NOW THEY HAVE THE POWER THEY WANT TO END ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL FOR NOT JUST POOR WOMEN BUT ALL WOMEN.

>> I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PEOPLE THAT YOU IDENTIFIED AND YELLED AT BY THE PEOPLE YOU'VE IDENTIFIED BUT IT IS A WEDGE ISSUE ON THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST ABORTION ARE FOR FAMILY PLANNING BECAUSE MOST DO UNDERSTAND.

THE ONES WHO DON'T WHEN YOU HAVE THE TIME AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A QUIET REASONED DISCUSSION WITH THEM, AND SHOW THEM THE INFORMATION, THEN ALSO POINT OUT THE FAMILY PLANNING WE HAVE NOW IS NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS IT NEEDS TO BE.

IT DOES MOVE THEM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM TITLE 10 TO GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY.

SHOULD HEALTH INSURANCE COVER GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY?

TWO TRANSGENDER WOMEN EMPLOYEES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN SAY YES.

AND WITH THE ACLU THEY ARE SUING THE UNIVERSITY, ITS BOARD AND INSURANCE COMPANY FOR REFUSING TO PAY FOR THE PROCEDURE.

ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS ALREADY PAID FOR THE SURGERY, THE OTHER HAS PUT OFF THE SURGERY KNOWING COVERAGE WOULD BE DENIED.

THE LAWSUIT CLAIMS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST TRANSGENDER PEOPLE BY DEPRIVING THEM OF MEDICAL CARE FOR THE CONDITION "GENDER DYSPHORIA."

SARAH MCBRIDE, A TRANSGENDER WOMAN WHO WORKS FOR THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN BELIEVES WISCONSIN WILL LOSE THIS CASE.

>> IT'S A CRUEL ACTION ----- THE REALITY IS THAT TRANSGENDER PEOPLE NEED AND DESERVE ACCESS TO MEDICALLY NECESSARY TRANSITIONAL RELATED CARE AND TO ALLOW FOR THE SERVICES TO BE PROVIDED FOR EVERY OTHER REASON BUT TO DENY THEM THE TRANSGENDER PEOPLE IS DISCRIMINATION PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

>> SCOTT WALKER BLOCKED A PLAN TO ADD THE BENEFITS AND SAYS IT'S LEGAL AND FORCING TAXPAYERS TO FUND SEX CHANGES FOR STATE EMPLOYEES IS UNREASONABLE.

McBRIDE SAYS MORE THAN 130 ANTI-LGBT COUNTER TRENDSISM YOU WILL SEE MORE AND MORE STATES ADOPT NON-DISCRIMINATORY POLICIES AND YOU WILL SEE MORE AND MORE CORPORATIONS ADOPTING INCLUSIVE BENEFITS AND WE WILL LOOK BACK AND I THINK THE STATE OF WISCONSIN IS GOING TO REGRET THIS DECISION MADE BY GOVERNOR WALKER.

>> ARE THE STATES THAT ARE GOING TO ADOPT INCLUSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE POLICIES AND THE CORPORATIONS BY THE WAY, THAT STICK WITH PAYING FOR THAT IN THEIR INSURANCE PLANS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE STATE'S LAWS ARE ARE THEY THE SAME STATES THAT WILL KEEP PLANNED PARENTHOOD CLINICS OPEN?

>> HOPEFULLY.

AND I THINK WE WERE IN THIS BUSINESS OF PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT MEDICAL CARE THAT WE WILL BE COVERING.

WE ARE IN DIFFICULT TERRITORY FOR SURE.

AND YOU KNOW, THESE ARE DECISIONS MADE BETWEEN THE DOCTOR AND THE PATIENT.

THESE ARE MEDICALLY NECESSARY.

THIS IS NOT COSMETIC SURGERY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF MYTHS AROUND THIS AND THIS IS NOT WE DON'T HAVE THE OPTION WE DON'T HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY THAT YOU CAN GET THE SERVICE OR GET THIS MEDICAL PROCEDURE AND YOU CAN'T.

I THINK WE'VE GOT TO GO BACK TO LEAVING THESE MEDICAL DECISIONS IN THE HANDS OF THE PATIENTS AND THEIR DOCTORS AND THAT MEANS COVERAGE FOR THESE PATIENTS WHEN IT'S MEDICALLY NECESSARY.

>> NORTH CAROLINA I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY AND I THINK THE ISSUES THAT FACE THEM WHETHER THAT BE MEDICALLY OR PHYSICALLY.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING IN WISCONSIN WHICH I AGREE WITH IS THAT WALKER MADE A DECISION BASED ON PARTISAN LINES AND DOES NOT WANT TAXPAYER DOLLAR FUNDING SEX CHANGE OPERATIONS AND A LOT OF THE WORK NEEDS TO BE ABOUT EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT TREATMENT OPTIONS WHICH ARE NOT FOCUSED ON SURGICAL PROCEDURES.

>> SOMEONE THAT THE ISSUE OF TRANSGENDER HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO MY FAMILY A VERY CLOSE FRIEND OF MY SON TRANSITIONED FROM FEMALE TO MALE AND I KNEW HER AND I KNOW HIM AND THE FAMILY WHEN THEY WENT THROUGH AND IT WAS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.

REALLY, FOR HIM, THE IDENTITY WAS SO CLEAR AND THEY DID SURGERY AND THE COMPLETE TRANSITION.

AND I CAN VALUE THE IMPORTANCE OF PROVIDING THAT SERVICE.

AT THE SAME TIME I'M FROM SUCH A DIFFERENT GENERATION IT WAS VERY SORT OF FOR ME TO GROW INTO UNDERSTANDING WHAT WAS GOING ON WAS NOT EASY.

SO I CAN SEE HOW THE POLITICS OF IT CAN STILL BE COMPLICATED IN A COUNTRY THAT STILL BATTLING FOR BASIC REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES.

>> AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE, AMERICANS, ARE .7% OF ALL OF ALL AMERICANS BUT 1.7% OF AMERICANS UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

SO CLEARLY, I JUST WONDER AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE CAME OUT AS GAY AND LESBIAN IN THE 70s, 80s, 90s, HOW MORE PEOPLE LIKE FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY HAS A GAY DAUGHTER YOU KNOW AS MORE PEOPLE HAVE INTERACT WITH TRANSGENDER PEOPLE IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES, WILL OPINIONS START TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DID WITH GAY PEOPLE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE JENNER AND GENERAL PRITZKER MADE THE TRANSITION TO FEMALE AND HAVING SOMEBODY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EXPECTED WILL HELP REEDUCATE BUT ON ALL OF THIS, WE ARE ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS HAVING THEIR SERVICES CUT OR THE RIGHTS DENIED WE NEED TO FIND COMMENSURATE THINGS ON THE OTHER SIDE SAY YOU ARE NOT GOING TO COVER THIS THEN LET'S NOT GOING TO COVER THAT.

YOU WILL NOT COVER MATERNAL CARE THEN LET'S NOT COVER VIAGRA AND THAT WILL MOVE THE NOODLE AS WELL.

>> AND WE NEED TO TAKE PARTISAN POLITICS OUT OF HEALTHCARE.

IT'S NOT A WINNING CONVERSATION.

NO ONE WINS.

WE DON'T WE HAVE A LOSING SIDE AND I WILL SAY THAT -- >> YOU ARE SAYING NO ONE WINS.

SCOTT WALKER THINKS HE WON.

HE IS APPEALING TO HIS BASE.

>> BUT NO ONE WINS SHE IS RIGHT.

>> WE ALL AGREE.

>> AND THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS, THOUGH, IS I THINK ON CONVERSATIONS AND HOW WE'RE MOVING CULTURALLY DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION INCLUDING INCREASING PROTECTIONS IN THE WORKFORCE AND AREAS WE HAVE CHANGED THE CONVERSATION QUITE A BIT.

ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS OF EDUCATION AROUND EDUCATION SYSTEMS ON TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUALS AND AMERICANS.

AND WE HOPEFULLY WE CAN CONTINUE THAT PROGRESS AND THAT WE DON'T AGAIN SEE ANOTHER ROLLBACK.

>> MY EXPERIENCE IS WE'VE CHANGED THE CONVERSATION IN LIBERAL HOTSPOTS LIKE NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO AND NOT MUCH OUTSIDE.

>> AND NORTH CAROLINA.

>> AND LOOK AT THE CONGRESS.

LOOK AT THE DEBATE ON THE HEALTHCARE OBAMACARE AND REPEALING OBAMACARE THAT WAS LIKE 19TH CENTURY.

AND A ROOMFUL OF MEN MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WOMEN'S HEALTH.

>> ALL RIGHT.

KEEP THAT IN MIND.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

WHETHER IT'S THE WOMEN'S MARCH, BATTLES OVER FAKE NEWS, THE USE OF ANONYMOUS SOURCES, OR VIOLENT DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST INFLAMMATORY SPEECH, AMERICANS ARE GETTING LESSONS ON THE CONSTITUTION NEARLY EVERY DAY.

TO THE CONTRARY SPOKE WITH ONE WOMAN WHO USES HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE ABOUT THOSE RIGHTS.

>> MORE AMERICANS THAN EVER BEFORE ARE IN FAVOR OF FREE SPEECH, INCLUDING UNPOPULAR OR UNFAVORABLE SPEECH AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM REGARDLESS OF THE FACT THEY LIVE IN A NATION FACING TERRORISM.

THAT, ACCORDING TO THE 20 STEEP STATE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT SURVEY BY THE MUSEUM INSTITUTE.

WHICH ALSO FOUND 39% OF AMERICANS COULD NOT NAME ONE OF THE FIVE RIGHTS LISTED AND GUARANTEED IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

>> THERE IS A SHAMEFUL LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION AND ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

I'VE SEEN STATISTICS SHOWING ONE-THIRD OF AMERICANS DO NOT KNOW ANY OF THE THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

>> MARY BETH TINKER IS A FIRST AMENDMENT ADVOCATE AND FREE SPEECH ACTIVIST FROM IOWA.

AT THE AGE OF 13 SHE AND HER BROTHER DONNED BLACK ARMBANDS TO SUPPORT A CHRISTMAS US FROM AND THAT ACTION PUT HER AT THE CENTER OF THE LANDMARK U.S. SUPREME COURT CASE TINKER VDSM INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS.

HER ACTIVIST LED TO HER WORK WITH THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION TO FIGHT FOR STUDENT AND FACULTY FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN SCHOOLS.

SHE CONTINUES THAT WORK TODAY WITH THE TINKER TOUR.

>> I LIKE TO ENCOURAGE STUDENTS TO LEARN ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT BY USING THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

AND THEY ARE DOING IT SO WELL AND SO OFTEN AROUND THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

STUDENTS ARE SPEAKING UP BY WANTING TO WEAR T-SHIRTS THAT SAY BLACK LIVES MATTER.

AND OTHER STUDENTS IN CALIFORNIA WORE SHIRTS THAT HAD THE AMERICAN FLAG BUT THEY HAD TO LEARN YOU CANNOT SUBSTANTIALLY DISRUPT SCHOOL WITH YOUR SPEECH.

AND THAT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE TINKER RULING OF 1969.

HAVING TO DO WITH FREE SPEECH RIGHTS.

SO THE STUDENTS WERE WEARING THE AMERICAN FLAGS TO MOCK THE MEXICAN KIDS.

>> SHE CITES EXAMPLES AND THEY INCLUDE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTACKS ON THE NEWS MEDIA AND HIS PUBLIC DEN GRATION OF JUDGES ESPECIALLY THE ONE THAT STAYED HIS FIRST TRAVEL BAN.

>> THE DISRESPECT COMING FROM OUR PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW TOWARDS THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF DEMOCRACY ARE TERRIBLE.

THEY ARE VERY HARMFUL TO NOT ONLY STUDENTS' UNDERSTANDING ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, BUT THEY ARE HARMFUL.

THEY WEAR AWAY AT OUR RESPECT FOR OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> RECENT INCIDENTS AT UNIVERSITIES INVOLVING CONTROVERSIAL SPEAKERS HAVE SPARKED DEBATE ABOUT UNPOPULAR SPEECH AS SOME FORMS ARE PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

FORMER BREITBART EDITOR WAS INVITED BY COLLEGE REPUBLICANS TO SPEAK AT UC BERKELEY AND AFTER RIOTS BROKE OUT, THE EVENT WAS CANCELED.

>> AND I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO SPEAK.

IRONICALLY WHEN YOU CENSOR PEOPLE IN THE END IT ENDS UP GIVING THEM MORE POWER.

>> TINKER VERSUS DSM INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS WAS DECIDED IN FAVOR OF TINKER IN A 7-2 RULING STATING QUOTE STUDENTS DO NOT SHED THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR EXPRESSION AT THE SCHOOLHOUSE GATE.

THE CASE HAS BEEN CITED IN OTHER CASES TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF STUDENTS AND FACULTY.

>> THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT STUDENTS ARE DOING TODAY TO STAND UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS TO KEEP THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH.

THE FREE PRESS.

THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

THE FREEDOM TO ASSEMBLE AND THE FREEDOM TO PETITION FOR GRIEVANCES.

>> DO YOU AGREE THAT WE ARE IN A FIRST AMENDMENT YOUNG PEOPLE PARTICULARLY, IN A FIRST AMENDMENT CRISIS NOW?

AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DOES THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION AND CONGRESS HAVE TO DO WITH THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WE ARE IN A PERIOD WHICH WE ARE TESTING THE BOUNDARIES OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

I WOULDN'T CALL IT A CRISIS BECAUSE IN SOME OTHER COUNTRIES, OTHERS HAVE BEEN KILLED AND IN IS FROM ENI DO NOT THINK WE HAVE REACHED THAT LEVEL HERE.

AND I THINK SHE CAPTURED THE BOUNDARIES.

YOU HAVE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE LIES THAT THEY ARE SAYING THE MEDIA AND CALLING THE MEDIA FAKE NEWS SO THAT DYNAMIC IS A TEST OF OUR FIRST AMENDMENT AND TO THE OTHER SIDE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE UNIVERSITIES AND I TOTALLY AGREE I AM I BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD TALK.

I LOVE THE SHOWS BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN THE UNIVERSITIES GET TOO SENSITIVE HOW PEOPLE WILL FEEL ABOUT OPINIONS, I THINK IS TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT A COLLEGE EXPERIENCE SHOULD BE.

I THINK WE'RE TESTING THE BOUNDARIES.

IT CAN BE REALLY THREATENING.

>> I THINK SHE IS ABOUT HALF RIGHT.

THE THINGS HAPPENING ON THE COLLEGE CAMPUSES SHOWS THAT FREE THOUGHT IS NOT BEING TAUGHT AND PEOPLE ARE BEING INDOCTRINATED.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED AT A LIBERAL CAMPUS LIKE BERKELEY WOULD HAVE RIOTS AGAINST A CONSERVATIVE SPEAKER?

>> NO, BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN SO MANY OF THE LIBERAL CAMPUSES THIS IS INDOCTRINATION NOT TEACHING INDEPENDENT THOUGHT IT'S DISGUSTING.

BUT BEYOND THAT WE DO HAVE A CRISIS GOING ON NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THINGS TRUMP SAYS THAT SOMETIMES ARE INCORRECT OR MISUNDERSTOOD OR WHATEVER IT'S BECAUSE THE PRESS IS NOT BEING RESPONSIBLE.

WHETHER YOU START WITH THE VERY FIRST DAY THE REPORT THAT HE REMOVED THE MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

BUS WHICH WAS A TOTAL LIE TO THINGS RECENTLY ARE FLUSHER MADE A POINT WHEN SESSIONS WENT DOWN AND DID THIS SESSION DOWN WHERE THE BORDER WALL IS GOING TO BE, HE SAID THE "WASHINGTON POST" HAD AN ARTICLE THEY HAD FOUR PEOPLE IN THE ARTICLE QUOTED AND NOT ONE SINGLE ONE WAS ANYBODY THAT REPRESENTED ANYTHING OTHER THAN LIBERAL VIEWPOINT AND HE SAID THE POST SHOULD KNOW BETTER JOURNALISTS MORE AND MORE ARE DOING THAT.

AND THE THINGS THEY ARE WRITING ARE SO BIASED AND THERE IS NOT AN ATTEMPT AND THEY CANNOT ALL BE LIKE YOU AND INVITE DIVERSE OPINIONS.

>> I DO NOT THINK WE WILL HAVE A SUCCESSFUL DEBATE WHETHER OR NOT THE MEDIA VERSUS THE PRESIDENT MOST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF BELIEVING THE PRESS AND THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT AND PUTTING THAT ASIDE -- >> BUT DOESN'T THAT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT OR DOES IT NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT YOUR VIEW OF THE PRESS IS?

WE HAVE A NATION OF PROGRESSIVES AND LARGELY EDUCATED PEOPLE READING "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND WATCHING CNN OR MSNBC AND WE HAVE CONSERVATIVES READING BREITBART ON-LINE AND THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" AND OR AT LEAST THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" EDITORIAL PAGES AND WATCHING FOX NEWS.

AND PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE IMPRESSIONS OF WHAT HAPPENED ABOUT PARTICULAR STORIES.

>> IT'S TRUE.

AND IDEALLY, WE NEED TO HAVE NEUTRAL SOURCES TO PROVIDE GOOD INFORMATION AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE STRIVING FOR.

I DON'T THINK WE THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER BUT CONTINUE TO DEMAND GOOD, HONEST AND FAIR REPORTING.

ON THE OTHER HAND IN TERMS OF THE FREE SPEECH CONVERSATION YES PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GALVANIZED AROUND THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN SAY AND DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

AND YOU CAN.

BUT THERE IS A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT.

I FEEL DIFFERENT ABOUT THE STUDENTS.

THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE AND THEY DID NOT HAVE TO SHOW UP.

>> I THINK WE ARE IN A PERIOD OF REBUILDING.

I THINK THE ELECTION ENVIRONMENT CREATED A TENSE DETERIORATION OF CIVIL DISCOURSE AND WHAT TINKER TALKS ABOUT IS FANTASTIC.

>> THAT HAD BEEN GOING ON BEFORE THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN SINCE 1994 SINCE GINGRICH WAS HOUSE SPEAKER.

>> I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT BUT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF FINDING A WAY TO RECALIBRATE AS A SOCIETY SOME REQUIRES CIVIL DISCOURSE AND ENGAGED DIALOGUE OF PEOPLE AND SOME OF THAT IS TAKING PLACE BUT IT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS AND WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAID TO PRESERVE THE DEMOCRACY INSTEAD OF TEAR IT DOWN.

>> AND THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND GET RID OF TALK RADIO.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PEB PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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